Author Topic: What more i can do?  (Read 36956 times)

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Online Sorama

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #300 on: November 24, 2024, 12:30:39 pm »
The BIOS was tested on a working board. In any case, the OP is waiting for a chip programmer. Hopefully a dump will tell us something.

And did the bios of non working board worked fine in the working board?

Obviously, yes, otherwise we wouldn't be here. ;-)

If it is that obvious, why are we measuring signals if we know the bios chipset is the culprit ?
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #301 on: November 24, 2024, 02:29:01 pm »
the only issue is that it beeps constantly (but works apart from that) , or are there other issues?
Yes the power supply is good, There is long beep no break, I even change MSDOS as well as RAMs with new working one to check if they are fault BUT still same.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #302 on: November 24, 2024, 11:57:38 pm »

If it is that obvious, why are we measuring signals if we know the bios chipset is the culprit ?

BIOS is fine, I even put the working board BIOS to non working board, it still beep on non working one.
 

Online fzabkar

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #303 on: November 25, 2024, 12:26:48 am »
The BIOS was tested on a working board. In any case, the OP is waiting for a chip programmer. Hopefully a dump will tell us something.

And did the bios of non working board worked fine in the working board?

Obviously, yes, otherwise we wouldn't be here. ;-)

If it is that obvious, why are we measuring signals if we know the bios chipset is the culprit ?

If the problem is in a WACOM chip, then it's game over. AIUI, Harry_22 is trying to home in on the exact point where the problem occurs, presumably in the hope that it is caused by a support IC.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #304 on: November 25, 2024, 12:41:59 am »

By the way, check IC23 Pin10 and Pin11 at the same 5us/div scale. As usual, working and non-working.

ok here, i see changed signal from pasts one.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #305 on: November 25, 2024, 12:44:15 am »

If the problem is in a WACOM chip, then it's game over. AIUI, Harry_22 is trying to home in on the exact point where the problem occurs, presumably in the hope that it is caused by a support IC.

Hope IC is good.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #306 on: November 25, 2024, 12:52:09 am »

To do this observe several of the CE, OE, Address or Data signals.

I see quite different CE pin here, non working board..
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #307 on: November 25, 2024, 01:27:18 am »

To do this observe several of the CE, OE, Address or Data signals.

I see quite different CE pin here, non working board..
What is original signal should be here?

Check also all RTC input pins (please see the picture)

PS
There is some 214 kHz rudiment signal here on all the traces from non-working board.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 02:11:18 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline Poroit

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #308 on: November 25, 2024, 02:12:54 am »
G'day All,

Should we be checking for any glitches with the power supply when the controller is first powered up?

If you read Section 2.4 as per attached it stresses the importance of power switching.

 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #309 on: November 25, 2024, 02:14:47 am »

What is original signal should be here?


this was original non working.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 02:28:20 am by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #310 on: November 25, 2024, 02:37:32 am »
RTC PIN11 Short to GND, CE Image
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #311 on: November 25, 2024, 02:44:15 am »

Check also all RTC input pins (please see the picture)

All RTC input pins are same, I am sending 1 picture only.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #312 on: November 25, 2024, 10:27:00 am »
Congratulations!

Half the work has already been done. We found a fairly thick hook that can be pulled well.
The EPROM Chip Enable signal “accumulates errors” and becomes unstable over time.
Note: The likely cause could be one of the address/data lines. The CE signal only indicates the result.

Let's move on.

G'day All,

Should we be checking for any glitches with the power supply when the controller is first powered up?

If you read Section 2.4 as per attached it stresses the importance of power switching.

Yes, precisely.
Probably we have some power line glitches here.
On the trace from the faulty board some other one signal with a repetition frequency 214 kHz is very noticeable.

Without changing the oscilloscope adjustments, look at the power bus IC23 Pin 14 and GND Pin 8.
Also have a look at EPROMs power line.
Next, check for ripple on electrolytic capacitors.

If you find similar signals post them here.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 08:24:43 pm by Harry_22 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #313 on: November 26, 2024, 12:01:28 am »

Probably we have some power line glitches here.
On the trace from the faulty board some other one signal with a repetition frequency 214 kHz is very noticeable.

Without changing the oscilloscope adjustments, look at the power bus IC23 Pin 14 and GND Pin 8.
Also have a look at EPROMs power line.

If you find similar signals post them here.

In working and non working board other power lines are similiar, BUT RTC IC23 VCC and GND has frequency shown up in osci...
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #314 on: November 26, 2024, 12:10:35 am »

Next, check for ripple on electrolytic capacitors.


Can you clarify a bit?
Shall i check for all the capacitors?
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #315 on: November 26, 2024, 12:13:46 am »
All electrolytic capacitors. Please reduce V/Div up to 1 v/div.
Also check again IC23 pins.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #316 on: November 26, 2024, 12:20:11 am »
Sorry, check the pins 8 and 16 IC23
« Last Edit: November 26, 2024, 12:27:06 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #317 on: November 26, 2024, 12:54:35 am »
Sorry, check the pins 8 and 16 IC23
Yeah thats the VCC and GND pins, thats same
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #318 on: November 26, 2024, 12:57:17 am »
Please next measure A0 and Q0 EPROM lines. Set up 2.5us/div or less to see the pulses. Move start trigger line to the left to see the full picture.
 

Offline Poroit

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #319 on: November 26, 2024, 02:08:14 am »
G'day All,

These motherboards are part of a controller for a piece of earth moving(drilling equipment) which is over 30 years old.

It has therefore probably been exposed to a wide range of ambient temperatures during its working life and even when parked up, it's probably housed in a steel sea container.

The OP does not have an ESR meter.

I suggest that the OP replaces all the capacitors on the motherboard with new, good quality ones.

Include C1 and possibly C10 if you think this could age.

BTW
What device is the WACOM Tornado T?

All the WACOM links I see relate to Visual products.

 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #320 on: November 26, 2024, 02:53:38 am »

BTW
What device is the WACOM Tornado T?

All the WACOM links I see relate to Visual products.

I have no idea of that IC.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #321 on: November 26, 2024, 03:01:14 am »
Please next measure A0 and Q0 EPROM lines. Set up 2.5us/div or less to see the pulses. Move start trigger line to the left to see the full picture.
Here,
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #322 on: November 26, 2024, 03:38:51 am »
Please print a traces from OE at the same scale.
Working ang non-working
« Last Edit: November 26, 2024, 03:41:37 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #323 on: November 26, 2024, 03:49:54 am »
Also please do the following.
Don't touch DIP switches but only measure and compare the voltages.

SW2 and SW4
 

Online fzabkar

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #324 on: November 26, 2024, 03:58:08 am »
What device is the WACOM Tornado T?

https://ww.reddit.com/r/ElectronicsRepair/comments/1g9csou/what_more_i_can_do/lx1vrat/

I think that the WACOM WE001BF northbridge/southbridge handles BIOS, memory I/O, RTC, CMOS RAM, serial/parallel ports, DIP switches, buzzer and keyboard (?). It must also handle the 100-pin (ISA?) bus.

I think that it contains everything that would be required by a standalone single-board computer, as long as the console is an A/N terminal.
 
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