Author Topic: What more i can do?  (Read 36943 times)

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Offline Poroit

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #350 on: November 29, 2024, 04:02:04 am »
Has this Topic been taken down by the Moderator?

I can only find it if I search.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #351 on: November 29, 2024, 04:23:40 am »
No, it was moved here entirely.
Have a look in Repair thread.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 04:25:21 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #352 on: November 29, 2024, 04:27:27 am »
Another idea came to me.
You can try the effect of temperature on the board. I foresee that a manual reset button has already been installed.
Gradually heating different parts of the board by hot air gun, periodically press reset and watch the reaction.
Only without fanaticism. Don't overheat. Old components are more delicate.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #353 on: November 29, 2024, 07:59:41 am »

Can you send some pics of the Interface between the Controller and the Hydraulic package.

To be honest, i do not know how to control them or the connection between them, I only have the Controller and motherboard, I only know it is connect to the machine BUT how is it connect where is it connected no idea.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #354 on: November 29, 2024, 08:02:39 am »
Another idea came to me.
You can try the effect of temperature on the board. I foresee that a manual reset button has already been installed.
Gradually heating different parts of the board by hot air gun, periodically press reset and watch the reaction.
Only without fanaticism. Don't overheat. Old components are more delicate.

I did heat with around 300 degree, and tried pressing reset button, I did not see any changed from naked eye, After a while i stop as board started to get more heat.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #355 on: November 29, 2024, 02:52:36 pm »
Another idea came to me.
You can try the effect of temperature on the board. I foresee that a manual reset button has already been installed.
Gradually heating different parts of the board by hot air gun, periodically press reset and watch the reaction.
Only without fanaticism. Don't overheat. Old components are more delicate.

I did heat with around 300 degree, and tried pressing reset button, I did not see any changed from naked eye, After a while i stop as board started to get more heat.

Let's see. 300 degrees is the temperature of the gun. Heating also depends on the air speed. I used QUICK 861Pro for this test with the speed setting at 20. You do not need to heat the entire board at once. Start with one 5x5 cm area. It will take some time to heat, about 30 seconds at distance of 5 cm. Do not force it to avoid a large temperature difference through material. This is a typical mistake of most. Heat up to 100 degrees. Check the temperature with your finger. If you can not hold it for half a second, that's enough.

The only change we are looking for is stopping of continuous beep.

PS
Check both PCB sides.

PPS
Don't forget to check Address and Data buses as was described in #346.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 10:37:03 pm by Harry_22 »
 

Online drhex

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #356 on: November 29, 2024, 04:52:48 pm »
If you have two address lines not working the CPU may well read bogus code from the ROMs and then die in execution once it hits something illegal. So as per @harry_22 suggestion check all address and data lines. If two are non wroking as you have written mutliple times we need to identify what goes wrong there. Have you compared beahvior working/non-working on thes lines? Address and Data will be shared all across the board, they are a bus. Any connected chip can kill them - see my repair of a even older pinball CPU in another thread.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #357 on: December 01, 2024, 08:40:17 am »
If you have two address lines not working the CPU may well read bogus code from the ROMs and then die in execution once it hits something illegal. So as per @harry_22 suggestion check all address and data lines. If two are non wroking as you have written mutliple times we need to identify what goes wrong there. Have you compared beahvior working/non-working on thes lines? Address and Data will be shared all across the board, they are a bus. Any connected chip can kill them - see my repair of a even older pinball CPU in another thread.
I somehow feel something is triggering the IC TORNADO, If we can solve IC tornado, i am 100% sure we will fix this beep problem.
Because everything is related to this IC tornado.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #358 on: December 01, 2024, 09:27:04 pm »
Ok, heat it and try to reset.
Please measure the Data and Address bus as agreed.
 

Offline smaultre

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #359 on: December 02, 2024, 12:00:13 am »
Hello, you can try to check (&click) all of the dip switches, it looks like BIOS is not well configured or so. Click them ~20 times for each position and check that they are in right position compared with the working board.

Check (replace) condensers, power lines, clean connections (memory), check voltage amplitudes on IC's main legs,
Does it trying to read BIOS? than MS-DOS from ROM? How long ? Compare with working board. Check adress&datalines. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 12:17:08 am by smaultre »
Start a new life here!!!
 

Online fzabkar

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #360 on: December 02, 2024, 12:23:50 am »
Does it trying to read BIOS? than MS-DOS from ROM? How long ? Compare with working board. Check adress&datalines.

These questions have been addressed in numerous scope traces.
 

Offline smaultre

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #361 on: December 02, 2024, 03:44:12 am »
I think that's the wrong switch config or after battery replacement or draining.
Or something like that. Topic starter have several boards with same issues..   
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 04:47:26 am by smaultre »
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Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #362 on: December 02, 2024, 07:09:23 am »
I think that's the wrong switch config or after battery replacement or draining.
Or something like that. Topic starter have several boards with same issues..

Can you clarify more on it?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #363 on: December 02, 2024, 07:11:40 am »
Ok, heat it and try to reset.
Please measure the Data and Address bus as agreed.

I spend more than 8 hours on heating different parts of PCB, with 100 degree and air blow of 2( Full air blow is 8.). I tried to figure out whats going on BUT i do not see any changes with my naked eyes.

The same results on non working as well as working board.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 07:24:15 am by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #364 on: December 02, 2024, 07:18:01 am »

Or something like that. Topic starter have several boards with same issues..
Same issues board like beeping has many solutions in this board,
1. The first is CMOS Battery, When beeping if i change this CMOS battery, it stops in some cases.
2. Second is RAMs, If there is DRAM or SRAM issues, or its been placed in wrong slots it also beeps.
3. The EPROMs damaged, if they are damaged it also beeps.
4. If there is issues in CPU, like some power faults it also beeps.

In Maximum cases, the beeping is solved by this above any cases, BUT in recent boards, the problem is not solved.
Every above things is fine BUT still no work...
 

Offline asis

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #365 on: December 02, 2024, 02:25:40 pm »
1. The first is CMOS Battery, When beeping if i change this CMOS battery, it stops in some cases.

Hi,

@222Lab_Test222

Could you do it correctly when replacing the CMOS battery.
That is, - having removed the battery (with the device turned off), short-circuit its seat with anything and wait for some time (10~30 sec), so that the transistors of the complementary pair (CMOS) finally lose their conductivity.
-
You mentioned that these boards have a long service life and batteries, as a rule, have a service life of 3 - 5 years.

Everything strongly depends on the quality of the CMOS transistors in ChipSet's.
That is, they can be powered by the "Holy Spirit" - for a very long time.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #366 on: December 02, 2024, 03:05:18 pm »


Or something like that. Topic starter have several boards with same issues..
Same issues board like beeping has many solutions in this board,
1. The first is CMOS Battery, When beeping if I change this CMOS battery, it stops in some cases.


This is a new case for me. If the battery is completely discharged, it leads to the machine making a continuous beep.

The machine beeps from the beginning until it is interrupted by the program (BIOS).
So if the program crashes, the sound signal will be continuous.
This means that before removing the beep, the program reads the  IС 14 (СMOS) and stops.

Ones again we found out that the program crashes at different clock steps at the beginning. It takes around 7 clock steps to stop.
We assumed that some signal on the Address or Data bus is corrupted (please see the last resume at #346).


@222Lab_Test222, how much more time do you need to get yourself together and look at the signals on the buses?  :)

« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 08:20:10 pm by Harry_22 »
 

Offline smaultre

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #367 on: December 02, 2024, 04:58:28 pm »
I think that's the wrong switch config or after battery replacement or draining.
Or something like that. Topic starter have several boards with same issues..

Can you clarify more on it?

Try to click all of the switches for several times ~20-40 each. The contacts may be weak and oxidized BIOS can't read/set adequate config.


AS Harry_22 says  It looks like "This means that before removing the beep, the program reads the  IС 14 (СMOS) and stops." it can stops for bad config.

Next step you need to check Data & Adress buses lines & compare with the working-one's.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 05:07:06 pm by smaultre »
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Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #368 on: December 03, 2024, 06:43:47 am »

@222Lab_Test222, how much more time do you need to get yourself together and look at the signals on the buses?  :)

Which address BUS you talking about, did i miss something again.
A lots of things going here and there, can you tell me again what pins of BIOS to check?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #369 on: December 03, 2024, 07:04:19 am »
The address and data bus, ohh i checked last time, in 2us division,
Every minutes or every time i check i got a new different signals so i stopped going further. Looks like i forgot to mention.

I think i need to change the division, in which division shall i check?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #370 on: December 03, 2024, 07:05:45 am »
And another thing i am planning to buy a new RTC, IC 23 and see if its the one causing issues.
By the way what temperature and air speed of Hot air gun shall i used to desolder the IC23 RTC IC.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #371 on: December 03, 2024, 09:08:37 pm »
If you are tired take a rest. Nobody forces you to work.
Then re-read #346. There are two pictures. On the first are the signals that you got from address line A0 and data D0.
Take the remaining 15 data signals and 17 addresses at the same scale and print out here.

You can do it in two steps. Today addresses, tomorrow data.
I understand that this is not easy.
But it needs to be done.
 

Online fzabkar

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #372 on: December 03, 2024, 09:58:37 pm »
Is there any update on an EPROM dump?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #373 on: December 04, 2024, 12:19:36 am »
Is there any update on an EPROM dump?

One of the acquitances said he have programmar, so i am waiting for him to give me.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #374 on: December 04, 2024, 12:21:51 am »

Could you do it correctly when replacing the CMOS battery.
That is, - having removed the battery (with the device turned off), short-circuit its seat with anything and wait for some time (10~30 sec), so that the transistors of the complementary pair (CMOS) finally lose their conductivity.

Yeah I indeed did that too..
 


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