Author Topic: What more i can do?  (Read 37051 times)

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Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2024, 06:42:01 am »
since it is very old, it is possible that ROM chips are loss their information, so the beep may be a signal that ROM checksum is failed

How can i verify that?
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2024, 07:17:46 am »
Try to access the Bios on working machine by the delete key, F1, F2, ctrl-alt-s, ctrl-alt-up arrow (or down), etc.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2024, 07:27:31 am »
Try to access the Bios on working machine by the delete key, F1, F2, ctrl-alt-s, ctrl-alt-up arrow (or down), etc.

this is controller of a machine NOT a motherboard of PC, i am not sure how to press those.
 

Offline HarryDoPECC

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2024, 08:19:46 am »
Remove and dump EPROMs, compare Good and bad systems?

That said, my hobby involves UVEPROMs that are now 40-50 years old and I’m impressed by how very well they seem to retain data

But not too hard to dump and compare, and at least you get backups
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2024, 09:42:31 am »
this is controller of a machine NOT a motherboard of PC, i am not sure how to press those.

There must be some MMI to setup clock.
Could you take a photo of the right side connectors?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2024, 11:29:26 pm »
Remove and dump EPROMs, compare Good and bad systems?

That said, my hobby involves UVEPROMs that are now 40-50 years old and I’m impressed by how very well they seem to retain data

But not too hard to dump and compare, and at least you get backups

How to perform that, i am new to it.
Also the EPROM which is used in non working board is ok when used in working board.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 11:32:20 pm by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2024, 11:37:51 pm »
this is controller of a machine NOT a motherboard of PC, i am not sure how to press those.

There must be some MMI to setup clock.
Could you take a photo of the right side connectors?

here
 

Offline velvia

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2024, 12:31:56 am »
EHLO 222Lab_Test222,

Is the fourth image where they're getting pulled from? Is this part of an industrial imaging setup? I saw Wacom so I assume imaging/digitizing. If you know what the boards were used for that may help in finding more info, Wacom is going to poison searches since this is a motherboard.

Since you checked the battery, it's possible it won't post because of the input power, this is an AT-era board, so despite being a few pins short the power connector is pitched for AT-P8 and AT-P9. I've worked at enough integrators to know that making it look proprietary is almost as good. Triple check your voltages, if it's AT it's expecting -12V and actually needs it, it's also going to want more 5V compared to 12V.

Since video has been no dice, it's always possible it's only outputting serial, look for RS232.

But that assumes you care about the board, you said you're interested in data recovery and that can be done without a working board; since this is a 486 PC Motherboard you're interested in the three EEPROM chips with printed labels on them as others pointed out.

The "MSDOS" pair will be the OS and may contain software, "CGROM" is going to be the character set for the graphics driver (that appears to be unique given all the Wacom in there). Certainly good potential archival material for sure. Not the only way to do it but you can hack together a Rom dumper out of a Pi Pico if you're inclined https://github.com/gfoot/picoprom, same is true for an Arduino

Actual data though? That would likely have been spat out to a hard drive not pictured (SCSI?).

All of that to say, there's a sanity check I do professionally (but rarely personally):
What is the replacement cost / potential value and is that worth more than the amount of time I'm going to invest.

If there's limited value in gaining knowledge there: You've got a 486 with a tiny bit of gold and a pile of hard to find spares that are hard to find out how to test  ;D

221 Bye,
fifty

 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2024, 12:50:17 am »
EHLO 222Lab_Test222,

Is the fourth image where they're getting pulled from? Is this part of an industrial imaging setup? I saw Wacom so I assume imaging/digitizing. If you know what the boards were used for that may help in finding more info, Wacom is going to poison searches since this is a motherboard.

Since you checked the battery, it's possible it won't post because of the input power, this is an AT-era board, so despite being a few pins short the power connector is pitched for AT-P8 and AT-P9. I've worked at enough integrators to know that making it look proprietary is almost as good. Triple check your voltages, if it's AT it's expecting -12V and actually needs it, it's also going to want more 5V compared to 12V.

Since video has been no dice, it's always possible it's only outputting serial, look for RS232.

But that assumes you care about the board, you said you're interested in data recovery and that can be done without a working board; since this is a 486 PC Motherboard you're interested in the three EEPROM chips with printed labels on them as others pointed out.

The "MSDOS" pair will be the OS and may contain software, "CGROM" is going to be the character set for the graphics driver (that appears to be unique given all the Wacom in there). Certainly good potential archival material for sure. Not the only way to do it but you can hack together a Rom dumper out of a Pi Pico if you're inclined https://github.com/gfoot/picoprom, same is true for an Arduino

Actual data though? That would likely have been spat out to a hard drive not pictured (SCSI?).

All of that to say, there's a sanity check I do professionally (but rarely personally):
What is the replacement cost / potential value and is that worth more than the amount of time I'm going to invest.

If there's limited value in gaining knowledge there: You've got a 486 with a tiny bit of gold and a pile of hard to find spares that are hard to find out how to test  ;D

221 Bye,
fifty

This are the machine which is used to dig underground for the sewage and drainage system.
I think the CGROM contains japanese characters hiragana katana kanji,

I still couldnt figure out why i am not getting data in address bus of MSDOS, although MSDOS is working fine.
 

Offline velvia

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2024, 01:16:59 am »
This are the machine which is used to dig underground for the sewage and drainage system.

So unrelated? Do you know anything about where the board came from? What kind of machine it was pulled out of?

I think the CGROM contains japanese characters hiragana katana kanji,

I still couldnt figure out why i am not getting data in address bus of MSDOS, although MSDOS is working fine.

If that makes sense for where you sourced the board then that makes sense, 30 years ago you'd certainly need a dedicated ROM for kanji, it may have predated standardization too.

Is it "H" or "L" that isn't giving you data? They're both MSDOS :)

I don't know much about how MSDOS installs to ROM but they may be "bookends" to the address space and shared with RAM.

It's also entirely possible one has failed.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2024, 01:24:29 am »
This are the machine which is used to dig underground for the sewage and drainage system.

So unrelated? Do you know anything about where the board came from? What kind of machine it was pulled out of?

I think the CGROM contains japanese characters hiragana katana kanji,

I still couldnt figure out why i am not getting data in address bus of MSDOS, although MSDOS is working fine.

If that makes sense for where you sourced the board then that makes sense, 30 years ago you'd certainly need a dedicated ROM for kanji, it may have predated standardization too.

Is it "H" or "L" that isn't giving you data? They're both MSDOS :)

I don't know much about how MSDOS installs to ROM but they may be "bookends" to the address space and shared with RAM.

It's also entirely possible one has failed.

The special pin of both H and L of MSDOS is not getting any volatges
Could be RAM slots have problem?

these are images for those controller,
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 01:29:51 am by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2024, 03:33:10 am »

This are the machine which is used to dig underground for the sewage and drainage system.
I think the CGROM contains japanese characters hiragana katana kanji,

I still couldnt figure out why i am not getting data in address bus of MSDOS, although MSDOS is working fine.

I found another type board with CGROM_3. Wacom Text Graphic Board type BP-MTG-001 / PWB-A223-A, has been used in Pilot CP10 machine
https://www.vitechparts.com/wacom-bp-mtg-001-pwb-a223-a.html?srsltid=AfmBOorxf7lRH4zarB6PsFu3b8k9BHhXljBSjaJzwuhbw0xSUHo6YB26

Possibly CGROM -Character Generator Read Only Memory. This storage predominantly includes commonly used English and Japanese character sets.
This board also has mouse DB-9 connector.

Could you please clarify the type of monitor connector? Or better yet, a photo of a working board with a monitor and a loading screen.
Please provide more information.
It seems I found your photos on another site. It looks like the EPROM type is set by DIP switches nearby.

It would be really cool if you took a photo of the board from a tripod and the names of the most chips could be read on it.

PS
Quarz 21.0526 is used on both boards for video resolution 640x400 (hfreq 24.83  kHz, vfreq  56.42 Hz)
This is PC-9800 series (NEC)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 04:15:34 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2024, 04:03:57 am »

This are the machine which is used to dig underground for the sewage and drainage system.
I think the CGROM contains japanese characters hiragana katana kanji,

I still couldnt figure out why i am not getting data in address bus of MSDOS, although MSDOS is working fine.

I found another type board with CGROM_3. Wacom Text Graphic Board type BP-MTG-001 / PWB-A223-A, has been used in Pilot CP10 machine
https://www.vitechparts.com/wacom-bp-mtg-001-pwb-a223-a.html?srsltid=AfmBOorxf7lRH4zarB6PsFu3b8k9BHhXljBSjaJzwuhbw0xSUHo6YB26

Possibly CGROM -Character Generator Read Only Memory. This storage predominantly includes commonly used English and Japanese character sets.
This board also has mouse DB-9 connector.

Could you please clarify the type of monitor connector? Or better yet, a photo of a working board with a monitor and a loading screen.
Please provide more information.
It seems I found your photos on another site. It looks like the EPROM type is set by DIP switches nearby.

It would be really cool if you took a photo of the board from a tripod and the names of the most chips could be read on it.

there is a reddit post about this which i open few weeks ago,
check this : https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectronicsRepair/comments/1g9csou/what_more_i_can_do/
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectronicsRepair/comments/1g9csou/comment/lubly7m/?context=3

CN14 is monitor connector
The Image is monitor, where the monitor back has the motherboard i share
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 04:11:18 am by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2024, 04:31:47 am »
Sorry, I cannot see any text on the screen.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2024, 04:50:47 am »
Sorry, I cannot see any text on the screen.

there is beep, so no screen
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2024, 07:38:55 am »
 Please connect the working one board.

Could you possibly read the messages more carefully.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 07:43:23 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2024, 07:44:39 am »
Please connect the working one board.

Could you possibly read the messages more carefully.

After that the Card is used to run machine.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 07:55:07 am by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2024, 07:57:12 am »
Please connect the working one board.

Could you possibly read the messages more carefully.

This is another image, i dont know why it keep saying you can not upload images more than 8000 or something KB.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2024, 08:45:45 am »
This means you tried to upload it before with the same name.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 08:52:06 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2024, 09:04:21 am »
Take a picture of both good and faulty boards side by side to see DIP switches.

PS
Do not take pictures handheld, use any camera support.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 09:22:21 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2024, 12:26:21 pm »
I would suspect the 74ACT08 Ic IC7, and C10, as those are the most likely thing to fail, and then RTC does not update, which is detected by the BIOS.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2024, 10:58:28 pm »
I would suspect the 74ACT08 Ic IC7, and C10, as those are the most likely thing to fail, and then RTC does not update, which is detected by the BIOS.
Let me see and check those.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2024, 11:15:46 pm »
Take a picture of both good and faulty boards side by side to see DIP switches.

PS
Do not take pictures handheld, use any camera support.

Unfortunately i do not have Camera stand or support, i am using from mobile phone.

1st image is not working board image , 2nd image is working board one.

Also have you checked the reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectronicsRepair/comments/1g9csou/what_more_i_can_do/
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 11:17:45 pm by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2024, 12:45:09 pm »
Please put both boards side by side, clear your phone lens, put it on any suitable box, hold your breath and make a good photo.
May be you will get the best quality if take one by one photo.
It would be good to see chip names near the side connectors.

Also I would to discern dip switches near IC15 as well as chips in red circles.

I have usual Chinese phone. You can see the test photo below.

Your fist photo was very good.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2024, 12:59:26 pm by Harry_22 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2024, 04:08:37 pm »
8-pin Mini-DIN connector near the dip switches is for keyboard.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2024, 04:11:16 pm by Harry_22 »
 


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