Author Topic: What more i can do?  (Read 37039 times)

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Offline u666sa

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2024, 09:34:57 pm »
Could be bad solder. You need good microscope with lots of light and good eye. Go over every joint.

Also, connect power supply and see what current is doing. Since you have working controller, you can compare with what it should be doing. Perhaps board is partially shorted, in which case you need to examine it with thermal camera, perhaps inject voltage somewhere.  :popcorn:


VISUAL INSPECTION -> WHAT POWER SUPPLY SAYS -> THERMAL IMAGING


*P.S. Japanese microscopes are good, with nice coated optics, a lot more light enters your eye, can see more things.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2024, 11:06:39 pm »
Could be bad solder. You need good microscope with lots of light and good eye. Go over every joint.

Also, connect power supply and see what current is doing. Since you have working controller, you can compare with what it should be doing. Perhaps board is partially shorted, in which case you need to examine it with thermal camera, perhaps inject voltage somewhere.  :popcorn:


VISUAL INSPECTION -> WHAT POWER SUPPLY SAYS -> THERMAL IMAGING


*P.S. Japanese microscopes are good, with nice coated optics, a lot more light enters your eye, can see more things.
Let me see, And where to inject voltage i mean, when i cross check working and non working board in terms of voltage, i found lots of volatges diffenrce in more than 10 ICs, Where is main trouble hard to conclude.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2024, 11:40:24 pm »
Please put both boards side by side, clear your phone lens, put it on any suitable box, hold your breath and make a good photo.
May be you will get the best quality if take one by one photo.
It would be good to see chip names near the side connectors.

Also I would to discern dip switches near IC15 as well as chips in red circles.

I have usual Chinese phone. You can see the test photo below.

Your fist photo was very good.

From right, the two chips IC26/IC41    D72020GC-8
The center 8 chips, IC45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52 GM53C261 X8 Individual name is M51C262-10
Near CGROM 3 IC38  23C4001EJGZ
IC near GUNZE IC69   MB89363
The one near the MSDOS is JP4/JP6

MB89363/MB89363B, Fujitsu, 5V, Two data I/O LSIs with six ports of 8-bit parallel I/O
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/04/102723432-05-01-acc.pdf (page 180)

MB89254, Fujitsu, Programmable Timer with three independent timer channels, DIP-24:
https://pdf.dzsc.com/autoupload/04ae79cd-5671-4a97-93a6-87bb2b912ffc.pdf

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1987_Fujitsu_8_16_Bit_Microprocessors_Microcomputers_Peripherals.pdf (page 818)

uPD23C4001E, NEC, 512K x 8 mask ROM, SOP-40 (equivalent to KM23C40018)

https://1www.bitsavers.org/components/samsung/_Databooks/1995_Samsung_MOS_Memory_DRAM_1110-4091.pdf (page 56)
These are all equivalent. They appear to be the ROM version of 27C4001 EPROM:

KM23C40008 (Samsung), uPD23C4001E (NEC), HN62335 (Hitachi), HN623448 (Hitachi), TC534000A (Toshiba), LH5341008 (Sharp), M5M23C401AP (Mitsubishi), MB834000A (Fujitsu), CXK384001 (Sony).

uPD72020GC, NEC, CMOS GRAPHIC DISPLAY CONTROLLER, QFP-52:
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/download/library/Datasheets-ZSAA1/DSAZSAA0006055.pdf?h=dbd324f5048e3bc420cdee7e3d2578a4%3A2caf4572a5cf3e36fee8%3A16029b4090d834c4a20d625f63f821dd

LC3564B, BS, BM, BT-70/10, Sanyo, 64K (8192-word x 8-bit) SRAM, DIP-28:
https://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/LC3564BM-70.pdf

M27C2001, STMicroelectronics, 2 Mbit (256Kb x 8) UV EPROM and OTP EPROM, DIP-32:
https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/72409.pdf

GD75232, LGS, 3 RS232 drivers and 5 receivers, 5V, +/-15V, 20-pin:
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/gd75232.pdf

MB89255A, Fujitsu, Parallel Data I/O Interface, functionally compatible with the Intel 8255A:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1987_Fujitsu_8_16_Bit_Microprocessors_Microcomputers_Peripherals.pdf (page 819)

82C55A, Intel, CHMOS PROGRAMMABLE PERIPHERAL INTERFACE, 5V, PLCC-44:
https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/download/66112/INTEL/82C55A.html

GM53C261, Goldstar, 64K x 4 Bit Multiport Video RAM, 5V, 24-pin ZIP:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/goldStar/_dataBooks/1993_GoldStar_MOS_Memory.pdf

MB89251A, Fujitsu, Serial Data Transmitter/Receiver, 28-pin:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1987_Fujitsu_8_16_Bit_Microprocessors_Microcomputers_Peripherals.pdf (page 817)

MB8464C, Fujitsu, 16K (2K x 8) CMOS Static RAM, 5V, DIP-28:
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1984_Fujitsu_Memory_Data_Book.pdf (page 204)

PALCE16V8H, AMD, Universal Programmable Array Logic, 5V, 20-pin:
https://www.silicon-ark.co.uk/datasheets/PALCE16V8H-datasheet-amd.pdf

PALCE20V8Q, AMD, Universal Programmable Array Logic, 5V, 24-pin:
https://www.tomek.cedro.info/files/electronics/doc/ic_various/GAL20V8.PDF

M51C262, OKI, multiport 64K x 4 (256K bits) DRAM, 5V, ZIP-24:
https://bitsavers.org/components/oki/_dataBooks/1990_OKI_Memory_Data_Book.pdf (page 738)

CXK5863BP, Sony, 64Kbit (8K x 8) SRAM, 5V, 28-pin:
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/datasheet/3271000e66c77fe3?type=O&term=CXK5863BP


Connectors
CN1 /CN2/ CN3: These are used for a controller and RS232 serial ports, facilitating communication with peripheral devices and ensuring robust data transfer capabilities. It is used for RS232 serial communication, ensuring reliable data transfer between the motherboard and connected devices.RS232/ RS232/485 /RAS
CN4: It is used for printer
CN5:
CN6:
CN7: It is used for card slots, connected via a small PCB, allowing the integration of various expansion cards.
CN8:
CN9:
CN10: It is the main power for motherboard.
CN11: It is connected to another board which is a PCB, that's the main board for card slots, there is error in card slots if this have problem.
CN12: This connector is designated for a 12V fan, crucial for maintaining optimal thermal conditions within the system.
CN13: Not used in most boards as far as known.
CN14: This connector is linked to a display monitor that includes a PCB, ensuring effective video output and control.
CN15: No connector
CN16: It is used as video outputs connected directly from the other components, the big machine. Analog RGB
CN17: It is used for mouse
CN18: It is a keyboard connector.

NF could be noise filters, ie ferrite beads.
DA could be ESD protection diode arrays.
RA is probably a resistor array.
TA is NPN transistor arrays.


All ICs
IC 1 (MB3771)
IC23(D4990A)
IC54(TLC27L7)
IC53(74HCT374)
IC22(74LS174)
IC6(74F74)
IC7(74ACT08)
IC15 AND IC16(MSDOS BIOS)
IC21 / IC24 (74LS07)
IC72 / IC73 / IC63 (74HC04A/74HC14A)
IC69(MB89363)
IC70(GUNZE AHL-51A)
IC74(MB89254H)
IC75(MB89251A)
IC28/ IC77 (74LS125A)
IC38(23C4001EJGZ)
IC66(PALCE20V8Q)
IC14(LC3564BS-70)
IC83 / IC61 / IC60 / IC62 / IC82/ IC84/ IC25 (74LS244)
IC87/ IC88/ IC68/ IC89/ IC86/ IC67/ IC30/ IC31(74LS245)
IC2(P79AJ 74F04)
IC56/ IC57/ IC58/ IC59/ IC80/ IC33/ IC32/ IC34/ (PALCE16V8H-15SC/4)
IC85 (74LS373)
IC3 (74HC132)
IC18 (74LS14)
IC64 (74HC244)
IC26/ IC41 (D72020GC-8)
IC27 (MB89255A)
IC19/ IC20/ IC79 (GD75232D)
IC76 (74LS38)
IC78 (74LS153)
IC81 (SN751177N)
IC45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52 (GM53C261 X8).It consists of 8 IC, which is M51C262-10 IC.
IC36/ IC37/ IC39 (CXK5863BP-35)

NOTE: Its a Old Board, lots of IC Markings are gone, I barely can see.










 
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Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2024, 11:42:09 pm »
Please put both boards side by side, clear your phone lens, put it on any suitable box, hold your breath and make a good photo.
May be you will get the best quality if take one by one photo.
It would be good to see chip names near the side connectors.

Also I would to discern dip switches near IC15 as well as chips in red circles.

I have usual Chinese phone. You can see the test photo below.

Your fist photo was very good.

From right, the two chips IC26/IC41    D72020GC-8
The center 8 chips, IC45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52 GM53C261 X8 Individual name is M51C262-10
Near CGROM 3 IC38  23C4001EJGZ
IC near GUNZE IC69   MB89363
The one near the MSDOS is JP4/JP6

MB89363/MB89363B, Fujitsu, 5V, Two data I/O LSIs with six ports of 8-bit parallel I/O
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/04/102723432-05-01-acc.pdf (page 180)

MB89254, Fujitsu, Programmable Timer with three independent timer channels, DIP-24:
https://pdf.dzsc.com/autoupload/04ae79cd-5671-4a97-93a6-87bb2b912ffc.pdf

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1987_Fujitsu_8_16_Bit_Microprocessors_Microcomputers_Peripherals.pdf (page 818)

uPD23C4001E, NEC, 512K x 8 mask ROM, SOP-40 (equivalent to KM23C40018)

https://1www.bitsavers.org/components/samsung/_Databooks/1995_Samsung_MOS_Memory_DRAM_1110-4091.pdf (page 56)
These are all equivalent. They appear to be the ROM version of 27C4001 EPROM:

KM23C40008 (Samsung), uPD23C4001E (NEC), HN62335 (Hitachi), HN623448 (Hitachi), TC534000A (Toshiba), LH5341008 (Sharp), M5M23C401AP (Mitsubishi), MB834000A (Fujitsu), CXK384001 (Sony).

uPD72020GC, NEC, CMOS GRAPHIC DISPLAY CONTROLLER, QFP-52:
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/download/library/Datasheets-ZSAA1/DSAZSAA0006055.pdf?h=dbd324f5048e3bc420cdee7e3d2578a4%3A2caf4572a5cf3e36fee8%3A16029b4090d834c4a20d625f63f821dd

LC3564B, BS, BM, BT-70/10, Sanyo, 64K (8192-word x 8-bit) SRAM, DIP-28:
https://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/LC3564BM-70.pdf

M27C2001, STMicroelectronics, 2 Mbit (256Kb x 8) UV EPROM and OTP EPROM, DIP-32:
https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/72409.pdf

GD75232, LGS, 3 RS232 drivers and 5 receivers, 5V, +/-15V, 20-pin:
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/gd75232.pdf

MB89255A, Fujitsu, Parallel Data I/O Interface, functionally compatible with the Intel 8255A:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1987_Fujitsu_8_16_Bit_Microprocessors_Microcomputers_Peripherals.pdf (page 819)

82C55A, Intel, CHMOS PROGRAMMABLE PERIPHERAL INTERFACE, 5V, PLCC-44:
https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/download/66112/INTEL/82C55A.html

GM53C261, Goldstar, 64K x 4 Bit Multiport Video RAM, 5V, 24-pin ZIP:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/goldStar/_dataBooks/1993_GoldStar_MOS_Memory.pdf

MB89251A, Fujitsu, Serial Data Transmitter/Receiver, 28-pin:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1987_Fujitsu_8_16_Bit_Microprocessors_Microcomputers_Peripherals.pdf (page 817)

MB8464C, Fujitsu, 16K (2K x 8) CMOS Static RAM, 5V, DIP-28:
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/fujitsu/_dataBooks/1984_Fujitsu_Memory_Data_Book.pdf (page 204)

PALCE16V8H, AMD, Universal Programmable Array Logic, 5V, 20-pin:
https://www.silicon-ark.co.uk/datasheets/PALCE16V8H-datasheet-amd.pdf

PALCE20V8Q, AMD, Universal Programmable Array Logic, 5V, 24-pin:
https://www.tomek.cedro.info/files/electronics/doc/ic_various/GAL20V8.PDF

M51C262, OKI, multiport 64K x 4 (256K bits) DRAM, 5V, ZIP-24:
https://bitsavers.org/components/oki/_dataBooks/1990_OKI_Memory_Data_Book.pdf (page 738)

CXK5863BP, Sony, 64Kbit (8K x 8) SRAM, 5V, 28-pin:
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/datasheet/3271000e66c77fe3?type=O&term=CXK5863BP


Connectors
CN1 /CN2/ CN3: These are used for a controller and RS232 serial ports, facilitating communication with peripheral devices and ensuring robust data transfer capabilities. It is used for RS232 serial communication, ensuring reliable data transfer between the motherboard and connected devices.RS232/ RS232/485 /RAS
CN4: It is used for printer
CN5:
CN6:
CN7: It is used for card slots, connected via a small PCB, allowing the integration of various expansion cards.
CN8:
CN9:
CN10: It is the main power for motherboard.
CN11: It is connected to another board which is a PCB, that's the main board for card slots, there is error in card slots if this have problem.
CN12: This connector is designated for a 12V fan, crucial for maintaining optimal thermal conditions within the system.
CN13: Not used in most boards as far as known.
CN14: This connector is linked to a display monitor that includes a PCB, ensuring effective video output and control.
CN15: No connector
CN16: It is used as video outputs connected directly from the other components, the big machine. Analog RGB
CN17: It is used for mouse
CN18: It is a keyboard connector.

NF could be noise filters, ie ferrite beads.
DA could be ESD protection diode arrays.
RA is probably a resistor array.
TA is NPN transistor arrays.


All ICs
IC 1 (MB3771)
IC23(D4990A)
IC54(TLC27L7)
IC53(74HCT374)
IC22(74LS174)
IC6(74F74)
IC7(74ACT08)
IC15 AND IC16(MSDOS BIOS)
IC21 / IC24 (74LS07)
IC72 / IC73 / IC63 (74HC04A/74HC14A)
IC69(MB89363)
IC70(GUNZE AHL-51A)
IC74(MB89254H)
IC75(MB89251A)
IC28/ IC77 (74LS125A)
IC38(23C4001EJGZ)
IC66(PALCE20V8Q)
IC14(LC3564BS-70)
IC83 / IC61 / IC60 / IC62 / IC82/ IC84/ IC25 (74LS244)
IC87/ IC88/ IC68/ IC89/ IC86/ IC67/ IC30/ IC31(74LS245)
IC2(P79AJ 74F04)
IC56/ IC57/ IC58/ IC59/ IC80/ IC33/ IC32/ IC34/ (PALCE16V8H-15SC/4)
IC85 (74LS373)
IC3 (74HC132)
IC18 (74LS14)
IC64 (74HC244)
IC26/ IC41 (D72020GC-8)
IC27 (MB89255A)
IC19/ IC20/ IC79 (GD75232D)
IC76 (74LS38)
IC78 (74LS153)
IC81 (SN751177N)
IC45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52 (GM53C261 X8).It consists of 8 IC, which is M51C262-10 IC.
IC36/ IC37/ IC39 (CXK5863BP-35)

NOTE: Its a Old Board, lots of IC Markings are gone, I barely can see.
 
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Offline Poroit

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2024, 05:14:57 am »
I like your tenacity :)

What is the model number of your Komatsu Tunneling machine?

I have a contact at Komatsu who may be able to assist with a circuit drawing?

Have you contacted Komatsu in Japan?

Do you have enough boards and peripherals to make up two full systems for powered up side by side comparative testing?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2024, 05:23:03 am »
I like your tenacity :)

What is the model number of your Komatsu Tunneling machine?

I have a contact at Komatsu who may be able to assist with a circuit drawing?

Have you contacted Komatsu in Japan?

Do you have enough boards and peripherals to make up two full systems for powered up side by side comparative testing?

These images are the machines.

even i contact them they wont reply to the individual request i guess.

Yes i have few boards and system that can run for comparative testing.
For comparative testing the screen need to show up, this keep beeing i am not sure how i can comapre them. BUT yeah i have full systems to compare.
 

Offline u666sa

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2024, 06:31:01 am »
Let me see, And where to inject voltage i mean, when i cross check working and non working board in terms of voltage, i found lots of volatges diffenrce in more than 10 ICs, Where is main trouble hard to conclude.

Your board has power rails. 5 volts, 3 volts, perhaps other volts number. Volts come out of power supplies, either on board on off board. Each chip has datasheet which requires certain voltage to operate. You can check these voltages.

Also, you can check resistance to ground on power rails and since you have a known good board, you know what that resistance should be.

Realistically, going into logic of chips is beyond your scope or abilities. All you can do is check power rails, resistances of power rails, find bad solder, find bad caps. If there is a short or a partial short (soft short) find that short and replace faulty component. This one goes to where to inject voltage, you have to look at resistances first. (you inject less than 1 volt, 0.3 - 0.7 volts)

How did you check your caps? You should take out all caps and check them using LCR meter at different frequencies. Your new board has same caps as your old broken board, so this leads me to ask this question. How did you check your caps and with what?

On these pictures, all caps have to be desoldered and checked with LCR meter.

2424709-02424713-1

Then, you take an oscilloscope, one of those rare times when you actually need an oscilloscope. Measure clock at every one of these crystals. Clock should be same as on working board.

Once you know all your caps are good and once you measured clock. You check the power rails. Check the voltages. Then check resistances. At this point you basically looking for shorts.

No bad solder?
Caps are good?
Clocks are good?
Voltages are good?
No shorts?

Check BIOS. There is BIOS chip itself. Plus there could be some programmable controllers, so you have to check datasheet for each chip on there, and if it is programmable, that could be it.

At this point, assuming you did the basic stuff like checking memory, and you scanned your board under microscope for bad solder, including all the connectors, bad pins, water damage, etc.. It's logic. Nothing you can do.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2024, 06:42:25 am »
Let me see, And where to inject voltage i mean, when i cross check working and non working board in terms of voltage, i found lots of volatges diffenrce in more than 10 ICs, Where is main trouble hard to conclude.

Your board has power rails. 5 volts, 3 volts, perhaps other volts number. Volts come out of power supplies, either on board on off board. Each chip has datasheet which requires certain voltage to operate. You can check these voltages.

Also, you can check resistance to ground on power rails and since you have a known good board, you know what that resistance should be.

Realistically, going into logic of chips is beyond your scope or abilities. All you can do is check power rails, resistances of power rails, find bad solder, find bad caps. If there is a short or a partial short (soft short) find that short and replace faulty component. This one goes to where to inject voltage, you have to look at resistances first. (you inject less than 1 volt, 0.3 - 0.7 volts)

How did you check your caps? You should take out all caps and check them using LCR meter at different frequencies. Your new board has same caps as your old broken board, so this leads me to ask this question. How did you check your caps and with what?

On these pictures, all caps have to be desoldered and checked with LCR meter.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Then, you take an oscilloscope, one of those rare times when you actually need an oscilloscope. Measure clock at every one of these crystals. Clock should be same as on working board.

Once you know all your caps are good and once you measured clock. You check the power rails. Check the voltages. Then check resistances. At this point you basically looking for shorts.

No bad solder?
Caps are good?
Clocks are good?
Voltages are good?
No shorts?

Check BIOS. There is BIOS chip itself. Plus there could be some programmable controllers, so you have to check datasheet for each chip on there, and if it is programmable, that could be it.

At this point, assuming you did the basic stuff like checking memory, and you scanned your board under microscope for bad solder, including all the connectors, bad pins, water damage, etc.. It's logic. Nothing you can do.

I can relate everything you said and done everything from start, I spend like 1 month on it already.

the only thing is that I did not found any datasheet of WACOM ICs, i search everywhere and still nope.

Things like RAM, BIOS all are good, only problem is pin of BIOS as it is not receving power. Thats the main concern for now.
 

Offline u666sa

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2024, 07:04:52 am »
the only thing is that I did not found any datasheet of WACOM ICs, i search everywhere and still nope.
Those 3 WACOM chips look like they are programmable. You could perhaps swap all 3 from working board. If you going to do this, I would attack this using low melt solder, and then heat from the bottom.

only problem is pin of BIOS as it is not receving power. Thats the main concern for now.

You can cut trace so it only goes to that BIOS pin. Give it power using lab PSU. But, if one of those WACOM chips turns on BIOS, that could be your problem.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2024, 07:09:10 am »
the only thing is that I did not found any datasheet of WACOM ICs, i search everywhere and still nope.
Those 3 WACOM chips look like they are programmable. You could perhaps swap all 3 from working board. If you going to do this, I would attack this using low melt solder, and then heat from the bottom.

only problem is pin of BIOS as it is not receving power. Thats the main concern for now.

You can cut trace so it only goes to that BIOS pin. Give it power using lab PSU. But, if one of those WACOM chips turns on BIOS, that could be your problem.

Can you explain a bit how to do that cut trace one,

It has 208 pin IC, i am not sure if i am able to desolder it,
 

Offline u666sa

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2024, 07:26:05 am »
Quote
only problem is pin of BIOS as it is not receving power

Your BIOS chip does not get power on one of its pins? Is that correct?

Is it just one of the pins or several pins?

Where do the trace from that pin lead to?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2024, 07:31:18 am »
Quote
only problem is pin of BIOS as it is not receving power

Your BIOS chip does not get power on one of its pins? Is that correct?

Is it just one of the pins or several pins?

Where do the trace from that pin lead to?

There are several of them which are data input pins of BIOS.

I couldnt find all pins where are they connected BUT some are connected to WACOM Ic.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2024, 11:56:35 am »
NOTE: Its a Old Board, lots of IC Markings are gone, I barely can see.

Hi 222Lab_Test222!

Great job!
I'm amazed.

Please see the summary information on board below.
I'll rest for a while.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wb5cgWByBCWEy7prWqwgc3GSKpXOSSiq/view?usp=sharing
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2024, 01:12:49 pm »
So, when the computer starts up, it emits continuous beep and there is nothing on the screen.

This is very similar to the error with the video card, which is almost the entire board as we see.
I'll test this version tomorrow with my vintage 486DX2.

In the meantime, can you connect any monitor to CN18 (DB-15  -Analog RGB)?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2024, 11:08:17 pm »
So, when the computer starts up, it emits continuous beep and there is nothing on the screen.

This is very similar to the error with the video card, which is almost the entire board as we see.
I'll test this version tomorrow with my vintage 486DX2.

In the meantime, can you connect any monitor to CN18 (DB-15  -Analog RGB)?

Yeah when i connect this motherboard to the whole system, and then power on it beeps continuously no break at all.

Are you referring CN16 or CN18, If it is CN18 it is keyboard, If CN16 then the Analong RGB is connection to display, without it display wont pop.
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2024, 11:28:16 pm »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2024, 12:16:02 am »
Harry_22, u666sa , Poroit

Can you guys help me find that datasheet of that WACOM ICs?

1. WACOM WE001BF TORNADO-T
2. WACOM W4014F 4L08F1229
3. WACOM W4015F 4L08F1231

The first IC WE001BF is near BIOS and i still doubt its the cause of beep BUT no datasheet is hard. Backtracking others ICs i found that in working board, this WE001BF is sending low voltages BUT in non working board it sending high voltages in couple of cases.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 12:23:31 am by 222Lab_Test222 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2024, 01:43:27 am »
Hi!
What do you mean under the Card Slots? PCI connector?
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2024, 01:46:49 am »
Hi!
What do you mean under the Card Slots? PCI connector?
where?
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2024, 02:02:56 am »
When you described CN7 connector.
Check for ISA slot. PCI was presented in 1992
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2024, 02:10:51 am »
When you described CN7 connector.
Check for ISA slot. PCI was presented in 1992

This is PCB
CN1 here is connected to CN7 of motherboard
 

Offline Poroit

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2024, 03:35:57 am »
G'day

I have emailed machine details to my contact at Komatsu so will see how that goes.

If you have equipment to assemble two controllers, you could do some side by side Comparative testing of powered up pcb's with a multimeter or oscilloscope.

I have also used Signature Analysers to compare unpowered boards.

https://huntron.com/products/trackers.htm

Harry22...great work with component ID on the motherboard :-+

 

 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2024, 03:58:02 am »
G'day

I have emailed machine details to my contact at Komatsu so will see how that goes.

If you have equipment to assemble two controllers, you could do some side by side Comparative testing of powered up pcb's with a multimeter or oscilloscope.

I have also used Signature Analysers to compare unpowered boards.

https://huntron.com/products/trackers.htm

Harry22...great work with component ID on the motherboard :-+

yeah i am currently doing side by side comparisons on voltages, BUT lots of ICs power are different in voltages in working and non working ones. Lets see.
 

Offline Harry_22

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2024, 05:36:42 pm »
You have already checked that on working machine without EPROM IC15 and IC16 (with MS-DOS) there is a continuous beep.
This means they don't have BIOS inside . Without BIOS EPROM there is no beep. That is definitely.
It will be good to connect POST card to CN7. It contains all the necessary signals (ISA bus). But I'm not entirely sure we'll be able to see POST codes here.

Please check the possibility to enter BIOS on the working PC. Do you have an ancient NEC PC98 keyboard?

Could you also trace the beeper connection. It should be managed by the one of WACOM IC (may be indirect), which is responsible loading BIOS and support ISA bus (like south bridge).
It looks like WACOM ICs are Japanese secret development of industrial chipset for Intel (under Tornado code name).

One more important thing. Measure all jumpers for 3V from the battery.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 06:19:04 pm by Harry_22 »
 

Offline 222Lab_Test222Topic starter

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Re: What more i can do?
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2024, 11:10:04 pm »
You have already checked that on working machine without EPROM IC15 and IC16 (with MS-DOS) there is a continuous beep.
This means they don't have BIOS inside . Without BIOS EPROM there is no beep. That is definitely.
It will be good to connect POST card to CN7. It contains all the necessary signals (ISA bus). But I'm not entirely sure we'll be able to see POST codes here.

Please check the possibility to enter BIOS on the working PC. Do you have an ancient NEC PC98 keyboard?

Could you also trace the beeper connection. It should be managed by the one of WACOM IC (may be indirect), which is responsible loading BIOS and support ISA bus (like south bridge).
It looks like WACOM ICs are Japanese secret development of industrial chipset for Intel (under Tornado code name).

One more important thing. Measure all jumpers for 3V from the battery.

i dont think that CN7 can connect POST card BUT let me see.
 


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