Author Topic: What sort of capacitors are these?  (Read 4085 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline motocoder

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 769
  • Country: us
  • Electrical Engineer
What sort of capacitors are these?
« on: October 16, 2014, 04:43:41 am »
I'm doing some work on a very old Power Designs precision power supply. Among other things, I've been replacing the electrolytic capacitors. However, there are a couple of capacitor types I see in there an for which I am not sure what type they are, and whether they are the kind that degrades over time and may be in need of replacement.

The first type is the large green capacitor in the first picture below. The "+" and "-" on top (partially visible) were drawn by me with a marker, based on the polarity of the voltage across the cap. So don't see those and assume it's polarized; it may or may not be.

The second type of capacitor is the orange cap visible in all of the pictures. I can't see any clear polarity marking on these either, so I wasn't sure.

Thanks
 

Online T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15239
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 06:31:03 am »
Probably both film, I've seen those Spragues before but not sure what's inside them really.  The metal case suggests electrolytic, but not the value/rating.  Any other numbers on them?

If they're film, I'd be very surprised they're showing problems.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Online Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5833
  • Country: nl
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 07:08:27 am »
The second type of capacitor is the orange cap visible in all of the pictures. I can't see any clear polarity marking on these either, so I wasn't sure.
This might be a bipolar electrolytic capacitor, not sure though.
 

Offline motocoder

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 769
  • Country: us
  • Electrical Engineer
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 08:00:42 am »
Thanks for the replies, folks. I ended up blowing that power supply up,this evening, so no point in checking these caps.
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11207
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014, 06:16:37 am »
They are Sprague 192P series polyester (Mylar) film/foil capacitors making them larger than metalized film capacitors.

http://www.symmetron.ru/datasheet/vishay/passive/42024/192p.pdf

I have a parts drawer full of them.
 

Offline motocoder

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 769
  • Country: us
  • Electrical Engineer
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 11:53:59 am »
They are Sprague 192P series polyester (Mylar) film/foil capacitors making them larger than metalized film capacitors.

http://www.symmetron.ru/datasheet/vishay/passive/42024/192p.pdf

I have a parts drawer full of them.

Thanks, David. Good to know they are non-polarized, and maybe the info will come in handy on a future Power Designs repair.
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11207
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 01:30:22 pm »
They are Sprague 192P series polyester (Mylar) film/foil capacitors making them larger than metalized film capacitors.

http://www.symmetron.ru/datasheet/vishay/passive/42024/192p.pdf

I have a parts drawer full of them.

Thanks, David. Good to know they are non-polarized, and maybe the info will come in handy on a future Power Designs repair.

As a practical manner, any C0G/NP0 ceramic capacitor or film capacitor should work to replace it but they may have used a film/foil capacitor for lower ESR or ESL or because metalized film capacitors are sometimes noisy because of the way they clear shorts.

Based on the location, I think they wanted low ESR and/or ESL.

I have never encountered a bad Sprague 192P series capacitor.
 

Online T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15239
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014, 10:03:46 pm »
Seems more likely they simply didn't need or want something cheap, like metallized film.  Or it wasn't even available (when was metallized film introduced?).  Or, they'd just been using the Spragues for literally the last 30 years, and had no reason to change as they were still available.

715P ("orange drops") are still chosen today for much the same reason, except the time frame is even longer.  They're actually quite good at RMS current / pulse, though this aspect is not well rated IIRC, and the people who pick them rarely understand the appropriateness of that choice for their application (e.g., recapping tube amps -- freaking coupling caps don't take any current at all, and the cheapest polyester is more than sufficient there).

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11207
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: What sort of capacitors are these?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2014, 02:51:03 pm »
Seems more likely they simply didn't need or want something cheap, like metallized film.  Or it wasn't even available (when was metallized film introduced?).  Or, they'd just been using the Spragues for literally the last 30 years, and had no reason to change as they were still available.

I am not old enough to remember a time when film/foil capacitors were available and metalized film capacitors were not.  Metalized capacitors are less expensive, smaller, and more reliable if not as rugged.  Film/foil capacitors have a lower ESR and may be quieter; that could be enough to not replace them in some applications.  In this case they are being used for very low ESR decoupling.

Vishay must have discontinued the 192P series after acquiring Sprague.  I could find neither them nor a replacement for them them on their web site but there is a Vishay labeled datasheet for them.

Quote
715P ("orange drops") are still chosen today for much the same reason, except the time frame is even longer.  They're actually quite good at RMS current / pulse, though this aspect is not well rated IIRC, and the people who pick them rarely understand the appropriateness of that choice for their application (e.g., recapping tube amps -- freaking coupling caps don't take any current at all, and the cheapest polyester is more than sufficient there).

I just use whatever film capacitor is convenient but not polystyrene if tubes are around because of temperature.  The original paper/oil capacitors are so poor that any film capacitor is an improvement unless the non-ideal qualities of paper are desired or there are noise issues with metalized film from self healing.

I still need to finish replacing the paper/oil capacitors in my ESI impedance bridges.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf