"coin" credit card alternative (electronic device)

[deth502]

preface: this is not a "bitcoin" virtual currency post. this is about an actual tangible product. not mine, no affiliation.

so, i just came across this and found it kind of interesting.

https://onlycoin.com/

i cant say i hate the idea, BUT.... honestly, for $50 its something i might buy. assuming, that it was just a replacement card (same function as a std card). judging on how it works, im going to assume that it HAS to have some kind of battery in there, making recharging necessary. kind of a deal breaker, i dont have to recharge my cards now, dont want an added pain in the ass. and at the $100 final price, it becomes less appealing.

also curious as to how much of a beating it could take. if it could stand the flexing and bending it would be subject to in a wallet being sit on all day like a regular card. and/or, how long the battery wil last. meaning until it wont charge and the device becomes unusable. but that also brings up the point, how long a charge will last. embarrassing to go and pay for something.... oh, but wait.... my cards battery is dead.

the thought is ok, but id have to know a lot more about the execution before id put any money towards it. id think charging could be done through one of those non contact charging docks, just lay your wallet on it at the end of the day, so it wouldnt be too obtrusive. i do like the bluetooth security of alerting you if it leaves your presence.

none the less, it is new (to me, anyway) and different. id be interested to see if the technology goes anywhere.

[andtfoot]

After briefly watching the intro video, I think it seems to be a solution to a problem that barely exists...

How many cards do people actually carry around? Is that bad having 3 or 4 cards in your wallet...? 

[deth502]

After briefly watching the intro video, I think it seems to be a solution to a problem that barely exists...

How many cards do people actually carry around? Is that bad having 3 or 4 cards in your wallet...? 

good point. i have 4, but i HATE carrying anything superfluous with me. like i said, for a one time fee of $50, and nothing else demanded of me, it would be a serious consideration. but again, like i said, the longevity of it makes me doubt the "one time" aspect, and the added demands of charging it are deal killers, imo.

but again, like i said, its something i havent seen before, and ill be watching to see if the tech takes off, and what direction it takes. 

[sleemanj]

I thought that most credit/debit cards were chip based now, and that if so, they can't be swiped in a chip-capable reader.  Perhaps that's not the case in the states.

[timb]

In the states, it's still almost all magnetic stripes. The Big Three (Visa, MC and AMEX) all offer RFID cards, but it's still not very widespread at POS terminals (new terminals cost hundreds of dollars that most small businesses aren't willing to spend), hell, it's still not uncommon to walk into a merchant that still has an old "grey box" style dialup terminal!

As for the battery on the Coin, it's actually a permanent Lithium cell, which they claim it will last 3 to 5 years, depending on use. After that, you toss it and buy a new one. It uses Bluetooth Low Energy for communication with your smartphone, so the battery life sounds about right. Because of the BTLE and permanent battery, they don't have to put any open ports on it, which means it can potted. They claim it's highly durable, so I imagine this is how they're getting the ruggedness from it.

$50 can be amortized over 5 years is $10/yr. I also imagine the thing would pay for itself the first time you leave your wallet/card somewhere and the proximity alarm on the smartphone app goes off, allowing you to walk back into the shop and retrieve it before you drive 3 hours home. (Or someone pickpockets you, etc.)

I've got to say, I like the idea of only having to carry my phone, license and a single multi-purpose card. Couple it with something like a CardNinja (a little "wallet" that sticks onto the back of your phone and two card slots on it).

Keep in mind this isn't only for credit cards, they say it'll work with any mag stripe based card, including store loyalty cards, club cards, points cards, gift cards, etc.,.

I dunno, depending on how well it works it might be neat to have.

[codeboy2k]

Also retailers trust the card when they see the Visa and M/C logo.  They have a high confidence level in the card.

I can just see that the retailers will be very wary of swiping a non-descript, black digital card with display... Yeah.. that will go over well each time you try to use it.

[deth502]

Also retailers trust the card when they see the Visa and M/C logo.  They have a high confidence level in the card.

I can just see that the retailers will be very wary of swiping a non-descript, black digital card with display... Yeah.. that will go over well each time you try to use it.

another thing occurs to me. with just that little "button" on it to select cards, what happens when you select your only card thats not overdrawn, but then some ham fisted waiter bumps the button while trying to swipe it and starts telling you your cards no good?

[codeboy2k]

Or... now you've given some card skimming waiter your entire wallet to skim...

[Corporate666]

Or... now you've given some card skimming waiter your entire wallet to skim...

That was my first thought.

I have my main Amex card, then 3 Visa/Mastercards, plus 3 bank visa debit cards.  There is no WAY I would want them all on one device where someone could get access to them all in one go.

People also don't often realize that a debit card with a VISA/MC logo is very susceptible to fraud.  The bank tells you that you are protected, but the cash is missing from your account for weeks (sometimes months) while they "investigate".  On the other hand, you might want to have that card as a backup in case of emergency - so if you end up carrying it anyway while not wanting to store the info on this "coin" thing, it defeats the purpose of this device. 

[fluxcapacitor]

Or... now you've given some card skimming waiter your entire wallet to skim...

Skimming is a major problem.I use cash whenever i can .Heres an article on skimmers -


http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/12/simple-but-effective-point-of-sale-skimmer/

http://krebsonsecurity.com/all-about-skimmers/

[deth502]

People also don't often realize that a debit card with a VISA/MC logo is very susceptible to fraud.  The bank tells you that you are protected, but the cash is missing from your account for weeks (sometimes months) while they "investigate".


 On the other hand, you might want to have that card as a backup in case of emergency - so if you end up carrying it anyway while not wanting to store the info on this "coin" thing, it defeats the purpose of this device.

first part- indeed. any disputed transactions are "frozen" during an investigation. if its a credit card, that means you dont pay that credit until, if the case is determined you owe, the investigation is over, with a debit card, its YOUR money thats frozen during that investigation. thats the main reason i do not use nor even have ANY debit cards. only credit cards.

second part- im not sure what your getting at there. if you keep an "emergency" card in your wallet, and you lose your wallet, it dosent matter if said emergency card is loaded onto a "coin" or separate, they are both still gone either way. if you store the emergency card in a complete separate location, then its kind of a moot point anyway. 

[SLJ]

Or... now you've given some card skimming waiter your entire wallet to skim...

Some of the major restaurant chains in the US are installing touch screen/card readers at every table next year so you can place an order or pay your own check at the table when you are ready.

[calin]

He he .. I work in mobile payment for a major card issuer in US .. won't say which one but is one of the big 3 ones. Go figure in the mobile payments division .. so pretty close by this scene.

COIN is an interesting idea, most likely it tries to take advantage by the major screw up made by the mobile operators in US in the direction of NFC approval (ISIS anyone .. yeah right!!). They (Verizon, ATT and others) have literally f-ed up NFC adoption in US. But enough with that So yes interesting idea COIN but my guess will be .. not really going to happen. At least now that Google is introducing host based card emulation and finally everyone has a way to get around the idiotic lock of the secure element in phones most likely mobile payments will finally start progressing. See what happened in Japan where MNO's were forced to release the grip on the secure element.

BTW like you say ... if you look promotional pricing is 50$ .. after that is 100$. Like you guys said it uses a standard lion cell battery .. Say you have to replace the thing @ approx 2 years (indulgent 3) - that will mean around to pay around 50$ per year to spend your money. Hardware wise first prototypes seem to have been built with an Arduino Nano and a standard BLE module. Then the better versions most likely moved to TI's CC2450 or CC2451 (less power hungry). Here are some pictures i managed to dig out on the interwebs - http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/14/5100100/coin-prototype-images

[Corporate666]

second part- im not sure what your getting at there. if you keep an "emergency" card in your wallet, and you lose your wallet, it dosent matter if said emergency card is loaded onto a "coin" or separate, they are both still gone either way. if you store the emergency card in a complete separate location, then its kind of a moot point anyway.

If I lose my wallet, then whomever finds it has all my card info from all my cards - but that only happens if I lose my wallet. 

But I give all my card info from all my cards to everyone I give my COIN to, every time I give them any of my cards.  Much riskier.

Also, when traveling, I always have a couple of separate locations where I keep additional cards.  I keep one credit/debit card in with my passport tucked away in the hotel safe, and I will usually keep another in another pocket when I am out and about, so even if I lost my wallet, I would still have those cards. 

[deth502]

second part- im not sure what your getting at there. if you keep an "emergency" card in your wallet, and you lose your wallet, it dosent matter if said emergency card is loaded onto a "coin" or separate, they are both still gone either way. if you store the emergency card in a complete separate location, then its kind of a moot point anyway.

If I lose my wallet, then whomever finds it has all my card info from all my cards - but that only happens if I lose my wallet. 

But I give all my card info from all my cards to everyone I give my COIN to, every time I give them any of my cards.  Much riskier.

Also, when traveling, I always have a couple of separate locations where I keep additional cards.  I keep one credit/debit card in with my passport tucked away in the hotel safe, and I will usually keep another in another pocket when I am out and about, so even if I lost my wallet, I would still have those cards.

the 2nd part is what i was thinking you meant, which is why i see it as a moot point anyway. but the first part is a good point. you mean from a security point of view, if the card/cards are compromised, not physically lost or stolen, then the emergency one will be as well. another good point.

[timb]

The COIN has a way to set a "one time use" for a specific card before it locks itself, the idea being you're at a restaurant, open your phone, select your Master Card and hand the COIN to the waiter, where he swipes it afterwards and it instantly locks, allowing no more swipes until you unlock it.

Very few cards are electronically skimmed in restaurants, anyway. Most of the time your number is written down on paper or a picture is snapped with their phone. These numbers are sold, normally for cash or drugs, to a local "dealer" who can do a number of things with them.

Sometimes it's a small operation and the dealer programs the number into cards himself, which he trades for, again, drugs or cash. This is very common amongst small time drug dealers. The stupider ones will use some of the numbers themselves. Either way, these guys generally don't last long as either their clients or "employees" will get caught on CCTV using the cards once the CC company launches an investigation, or will roll on the dealer when they get picked up for a minor drug related offense.

The big money is with organized crime. In this scenario, the dealers are just aggregation points for the distribution of the collection of card info (think of the way drugs are distributed, only in reverse; the restaurant and retail employees sell card info to the dealer,  and it moves up the chain from there, instead of drugs coming from outside the country, being distributed to gangs or organized crime, then dealers, then customers). The Russian Mob is a huge player in this form of "information trafficking" and it's only getting bigger by the year.

In the latter case, these organizations will setup fake companies with merchant accounts, and run small $1-$20 transactions on each card once a month, which is something the majority of people don't notice. This can bring in hundreds of millions of dollars each month!

Electronic Skimming is something different and a bit more advanced. That's when they come in and modify the credit card reader on gas pumps, vending machines and kiosks, so that it records the information of each card swiped. There's nothing you can do to stop this, short of going into the store and physically typing your number into the POS terminal or only carrying cash (but don't use an ATM to get that cash, they can be bugged, too).

[Legit-Design]

Electronic Skimming is something different and a bit more advanced. That's when they come in and modify the credit card reader on gas pumps, vending machines and kiosks, so that it records the information of each card swiped. There's nothing you can do to stop this, short of going into the store and physically typing your number into the POS terminal or only carrying cash (but don't use an ATM to get that cash, they can be bugged, too).

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/11/crooks-rock-audio-based-atm-skimmers/

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/would-you-have-spotted-the-fraud/

Actually one of those cheapest keychain "spy cameras" (808 camera) includes everything needed for constructing a skimmer. It has microphone and with cassette tape audio head or similar can read  magnetic strips and a camera which can record a pin.

[calin]

He he .. finall a press monkey noticed what I was saying


http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/be-careful-with-coin/?_r=1&