Author Topic: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?  (Read 249977 times)

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Offline mastershake

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2021, 06:00:03 am »
i wonder now if they will offer maybe a t3c with the new front panel and stand of the t3b but with the 245 and t12 irons. i got my t3a's for under 100$ shipped so i cant complain they work well. im hoping they dont go and update them already though lol i may have waited for the newer model if they do for the new layout.
 

Offline ntdrt

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2021, 06:29:03 am »
I don't expect manufacturer to make two competing models so quickly after each other. This would require bad planning at their side. Thus I don't expect upgraded T245 version anytime soon since T3A is new product (few months old). Anything is possible but this one is unlikely. Enjoy your T3A. Stand is only part and not that important part.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2021, 09:02:27 pm »
Do you mean JBC station or clone? JBC seems to have aggressive firmware with large temperature overshoot/offset. Not sure if this is intentional or if all JBC stations behave like this: https://youtu.be/xGPVhv5fZGs?t=1180. But if this is intentional then JBC at "same" temperature will perform better since higher temperature is used instead. Clone will most likely not behave like original station in this regard. And indeed T3A seems to have tigher control and not overshoot as much: https://youtu.be/26KXtHZqhMg?t=730. This is another thing to watch out for. If firmware is overshooting like this then station will seem to perform better since 20C offset is enough to make difference. Higher temperature impacts how much energy is stored in tip, higher temperature will allow faster heat transfer and also higher temperature will help regulation since station has wider range to work with and can use more power. Also if melting point of solder is X then the more temperature over X you set the more can temperature drop until it impacts your soldering (think about it like it's buffer). So setting temperature higher is big deal since it impacts soldering in many ways.

I don't think this comparison between T12 vs C245 is important anyway. T12 clones are much cheaper and they work good enough for most things. If you are not sure if C245 makes sense then you don't need it and T12 will work fine. I don't think buying C245 makes sense unless you need the extra power for high thermal mass boards/connections. Even if C245 is better on lower power, it can't beat T12 in price to performance.  For now at least. If you don't care about price then sure get C245, it's better platform but not in value.

On either a clone or genuine station.
I'm talking continuous power consumption, so regardless of the overshoot you mention. Just pointing out that a "small" knife tip like this should be easily capable of taking 50W+ if properly coupled to a high thermal mass PCB or component.

Maybe clone JBC tips are not as good, but I've yet to see evidence of why. For sure T12 clones I have had slightly higher heater coil resistance, but not huge 10% or something.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 09:04:29 pm by thm_w »
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #103 on: August 24, 2021, 01:04:46 am »
Jbc clones have poor connection between the heater and the tip body, very badly pressed.
All of them came loose after free minutes of use, like a kid's tooth that's about to fall.
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Offline ntdrt

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #104 on: August 24, 2021, 11:31:59 am »
Jbc clones have poor connection between the heater and the tip body, very badly pressed.
All of them came loose after free minutes of use, like a kid's tooth that's about to fall.

How? Heater is inside cartridge how it can came loose? Tip came loose from cartridge body?
I have few different clones of C245 cartridges and all work so far. I did use them for couple hours of soldering.

But I noticed that different C245 clones have different crimp right behind tip - one style has lines and other type is smooth, also crimp on contact side is different: see picture

So multiple clones exist? Perhaps you found some bad ones? Do you have this experience with tips from different sources or one source?

« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 11:40:59 am by ntdrt »
 

Offline Ungolian

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #105 on: August 24, 2021, 06:35:40 pm »
I think the real issues are consistency, quality control, and manufacturing process.  With the Chinese clones, some might work fine, others might work fine for a little while then have issues, and you could also get a completely bad one that never works correctly.  I don't think there is one answer that tips from X manufacturer are fine, while tips from Y manufacturer are always bad.  It's a roll of the dice.  JBC does use a thinner plating on their standard tips, which shortens its lifespan, but the performance and reliability are superior. 
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #106 on: August 24, 2021, 08:44:07 pm »
How? Simple, it's not a one-piece, there's the heater and there's the tip body pressed around it.
I've bought 5 JBC clone tips and all were absolute crap. The ones burned after 10 minutes of use at 360ºC, had terrible heat transfer.
The seller said they were "low temperature tips" meant for less than 300ºC. Luckly got my money back.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 08:46:31 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline mastershake

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #107 on: August 24, 2021, 08:50:58 pm »
all the ones i have used that were "crimped" like those were terrible. i do have some smooth ones i got from china and so far they dont regulate as well as genuine ones but they have held up pretty well. they just will not calibrate as well where the real ones might be a few degrees off they are like 20-30deg off no matter what i do.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #108 on: August 24, 2021, 09:30:32 pm »
Interesting.
Even with real JBC C245 there is a lot of variety. Some clearly have the crimp marks visible on the tip housing, some do not, some appear to be pressed in from the top into a shell.
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #109 on: August 24, 2021, 10:06:08 pm »
The smooth ones are also crimped, but with a steel cover to look good.
My last ones were also smooth, and were much worse than the ugly ones I had first.

Who cares about the little crimping marks? What you should care about is the real performance.
Maybe JBCs aren't crimped, but assembled with one part hot and the other cold, so the temperature contracts/expands the parts, creating a tolerance that allows sliding the heater in the tip.
Once they're at the same temperature, the inner part is slightly bigger, so the's a constant pressure, pushing the surfaces together and making a good bond.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 10:14:57 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline mastershake

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #110 on: August 25, 2021, 12:08:58 am »
i could care less what they look like i was just stating my experience with them seems opposite of yours. for me the crimped looking ones always were worse then the particular ones i got from china that were smooth
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #111 on: August 25, 2021, 12:36:29 am »
Do they really perform much better than T12? Because they should if they're decent.
If it's more or less the same... then it's just expensive T12!
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Offline ntdrt

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #112 on: August 25, 2021, 11:30:40 am »
I think the real issues are consistency, quality control, and manufacturing process.  With the Chinese clones, some might work fine, others might work fine for a little while then have issues, and you could also get a completely bad one that never works correctly.  I don't think there is one answer that tips from X manufacturer are fine, while tips from Y manufacturer are always bad.  It's a roll of the dice.  JBC does use a thinner plating on their standard tips, which shortens its lifespan, but the performance and reliability are superior. 

For sure even if one manufacturer did make good ones then you don't even know what you getting from chinese sellers so this is not my point. Different crimping marks mean different dies or machines. And in such case it's unlike that all machines or dies would have wrong setup. So one kind could have higher failure rate.

How? Simple, it's not a one-piece, there's the heater and there's the tip body pressed around it.
I've bought 5 JBC clone tips and all were absolute crap. The ones burned after 10 minutes of use at 360ºC, had terrible heat transfer.
The seller said they were "low temperature tips" meant for less than 300ºC. Luckly got my money back.

Low temperature tips? They need to be joking. Seems like they did know the tips were garbage. Thank you for clarification.
I did grill mine at 450ºC over 30 minutes straight then rapidly cooled in water. This should make different parts expand and shrink in different rates. And I wasn't able to pull or twist tip with fingers. Tip was blue and oxidized as hell but did take solder after cleaning. I did measure temperature of tip from cold power up and temperature of tip was always higher than display. So I could not detect drop. In result I can't replicate your experience. This tip seems different and looks different too (round without flats but with lines, in your picture tip has flats).

I have with 1) round with lines and 2) smooth and both have temperature offset (10-20ºC more than display shows) but are usable so far. It would be useful to know if one type has higher failure rate than others. Yes all will have some failure rate. But it's unlikely that different dies/press machines would have same error. It may not matter but for sure it will not hurt to gather experience from different people and see real data.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 11:38:19 am by ntdrt »
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #113 on: August 25, 2021, 01:08:59 pm »
My money ain't going into chinese jbc crap ever again.
They cost 1/3rd, but perform and last 1/1000th than the genuine ones.
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Offline AlexRus77

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #114 on: August 25, 2021, 02:19:59 pm »
I saw a review with comparsion of several C245 tips (clones). So, a it works not so good as original JBC, but not 1/1000. Some is very bad. The author did a teardown and found a reason. On bad tips a big air gap between thermocouple and metall, and reaction for temperature change is very bad. But he found and good clones.
 
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #115 on: August 25, 2021, 02:33:48 pm »
Maybe. But look at me.
Bought 5 already and all were crap.
I would have bought 2 original tips with that money.
Lucky I got some of my money back, but not all.
For me it just doesn't worth the risk.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 02:35:47 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline AlexRus77

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #116 on: August 25, 2021, 03:05:05 pm »
Yes, you are right. But I'm sure that clone tips can be very different. I have several T12 from diferent stores. They are very different too. :) One didn't have a proper connection inside and was very unstable, for example.

Do you know the manufacturer of your clone tips?
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #117 on: August 25, 2021, 03:12:54 pm »
No idea. You know the sticker on the bag doesn't mean anything, they'll get the tips from the cheapest source  they can.
If any brand becomes appreciated enough, then the others will clone the clone and same *** again.
It's ok with $2 T12 tips, but not with $10 jbc clones  :rant:
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Offline cgf5

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #118 on: August 25, 2021, 04:22:12 pm »
Identifying manufacturer is futile. Tips are clean, no markings and markings can be copied. As DavidAlfa says - seller may switch randomly between sources to sell the cheapest one. So seller can't be relied upon. There is no way to identify source or quality except by tip itself and testing. Let's hope bad tips are rare and they will learn how to make better tips over time. C245 clones are recent. T12 clones have long history. Thus time may improve C245 quality since more people will want them because now cheaper stations exist and market will be bigger for cheap clones.

Buying 5 bad tips is terrible but imagine buying multiple JBC original. It will cost more than whole station. It get's expensive fast with 3x multiplier. One bigger JBC tip can cost 1/3 of T3A station...
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #119 on: August 25, 2021, 04:39:11 pm »
I can get original C245 tips for 25-30€ depending on the profile.
I know these tip will last for years without burning or rusting.
Clones are around 9€, their quality is like a lottery ticket, with high chances of being crap, and for sure they won't last that long.
I see a lot of positive feedback, clearly they're people that have never worked with genuine jbc stuff.
And the dumb "Didn't tested yet, but look nice - 5 stars"
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 04:42:02 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline cgf5

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #120 on: August 25, 2021, 05:30:35 pm »
I would be okay if clone didn't last as "long". I don't solder every day, it's hobby. Thus I don't need long life tip and something worse would work fine if it has performance. I don't expect to get same for less - shorter life is guaranteed.

Yeah ali reviews. Most reviews are made after thing arrives and before use so it's always about looks not functionality. I once did get product that couldn't work because of design flaw yet reviews plenty and good. Nothing unusual.

I don't think many people who have JBC would buy clone anyway. So most people will come from T12 or from old technology. Don't expect many people would have experience with both. So yea we can think that clone is good since we don't have reference. And for sure sometimes cheap doesn't work like cheap power supplies (death traps emitting lot of interference with built in ignition). Sometimes cheap is too cheap beyond reason. But for 1/3 or even less they need to make good clones. I don't see reason why they couldn't.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 08:33:00 pm by cgf5 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2021, 12:27:58 am »
I saw a review with comparsion of several C245 tips (clones). So, a it works not so good as original JBC, but not 1/1000. Some is very bad. The author did a teardown and found a reason. On bad tips a big air gap between thermocouple and metall, and reaction for temperature change is very bad. But he found and good clones.

wow good writeup, so one of the defective tips they had the thermocouple was not pressed far enough up, resulting in an air gap. Testing each tip you receive would take some amount of effort, unless you have a known good tip to compare to, and getting a refund is not guaranteed.

I disagree that there is no chance of quality consistency. I've seen some sellers with branded/marked tips, so some MAY be built to their spec and be higher grade. The problem is finding a reliable brand.
eg the T12 "high grade" tips seem to be better.

- branded "bi" - no marking on the tip
- branded "i2c" - laser etched
- jabe branded - no marking on the tip
- xsoldering branded - printed on tip?
- mechanic branded - printed on tip?
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Offline BlackICE

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #122 on: August 26, 2021, 12:57:49 am »
Seems like my choice for a using a Ksger T12 with genuine Hakko tips was a good choice. If I need more power, fake JBC tips don't seem like a likely solution. So buying one of these clone JBC system would have to factor in buying genuine JBC tips.

 

Offline mastershake

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #123 on: August 26, 2021, 02:04:35 am »
the actual ksger branded t12's are usually pretty decent. i personally dont see THAT much of a difference between hakko and the better aftermarkets. i do have a few (2-3) 245 clones that actually have held up really well and work fine just the temps are off even after calibration. but they have been fine without falling apart like some of the super crap ones have within 10 minutes of using them. one of the ones that came with the handksit 245 (imo not a great system at all there) lasted less then 5 minutes lol before the whole tip fell off.
 

Offline BlackICE

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #124 on: August 26, 2021, 03:03:33 am »
Since the most of the real Hakko tips shipped from Hakko USA for free are a little more than $10 I felt the premium over clones was worth it to get a know quality and the exact type of tips I wanted. Most of the tip choices sold from China are styles I don't that I care to use.
 


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