Author Topic: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?  (Read 229735 times)

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Offline SHTechnics

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #525 on: July 10, 2022, 07:32:24 pm »
Can I ask a dumb question.  When replacing capacitors in the T3A's power supply, is it OK to replace C1 (image attached) with a 200V or 250V rated capacitor?  For use with 120V line input only.

I noticed that C1, a big 82 uF capacitor is rated 400 V and I believe that voltage rating is derived from the max input voltage of 240V, so I'm hoping I can use a 250V rated cap instead.

I'll try to attach an image here so at least you can see what I'm talking about.  C1 is the large one near the middle of the picture.

Hi, when used on 120VAC the 250V rating is sufficient.
 
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Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #526 on: August 03, 2022, 02:05:50 am »
Hi folks, long time reader, first time poster here... I've just ordered the T3A with T245 handle (thanks for a ton of discussion and advice here!). I have duly read all the 22 pages (so far)!
Still have a question: does anybody know a reliable source for genuine JBC tips (C245) in Canada? Online is ok, I just don't want to get hit with exorbitant "brokerage/shipping fees" etc... Tried searching @ digikey and mouser... no dice, or I'm going blind... looks like they don't sell JBC products...

Alternatively (I know it will not be the original quality!) - but any advice on the current AliExpress sellers / tip brands for compatible tips?

I do need a couple of tips to feel comfortable, one with high thermal mass (like the #966 6mm monster) and my daily driver would be something like #905 or #945. Most of my stuff is still TH, some SMD, but I hope the T3A's bundled tips will do for those small scale SMD cases (or hot air!)...

As a background, I'm coming from 900/936 clones, mostly CXG or WiT "station-in-a-handle" types, 110-120W each, and I use mostly the bare copper tips on those.

Any suggestions on reachable-from-Canada sources of genuine or good clone C245 tips?

Many thanks!

-Al
 

Offline Ungolian

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #527 on: August 03, 2022, 08:19:52 pm »
I can't speak about getting 245 tips in Canada, but I can say that the included tips aren't the best.  I don't like conical tips, which you get two of, and they are very small.  The only one I could use was the knife, and even then, it's not as wide as I would like.  If you are working on phones, then yeah, they can work and are the correct sizes/styles.  But like you, I'm doing through-hole and SMD (0402 is the smallest I deal with, and that's rare).  I wound up buying 5 245 tips, but I should have only bought 3.  The C245-158E is my workhorse, works great, zero complaints about it.  The 157E is my knife, but it also has a fairly high thermal mass and works better than the C245-759 I intended to use for such things.  Mind you, I don't work on heavy ground planes or anything.  Just eyelets and old turret boards on vintage audio stuff, nothing I'd need a 6mm tip for.  Then I bought a C245-710 for SMD stuff, and while it wasn't necessarily a mistake, the C245-748 I wound up buying later made the 710 obsolete as it is between the 158E and 748.  The 710 is long, skinny, and can get into tight places, but rarely gets used now.  So I'd point you towards the C245- 157E, 158E, and 748.  That will literally cover everything between the two extremes.  For the extremely small, the included tips will work fine.  For the large, yes, the 966 will work.  Or you could go with something like the Weller D550PK "Big Gun" which comes with 3 tips, is like $20 more than the 966 tip, but will handle ANYTHING big.  Just depends on how "big" your needs are, and how often you'd use it.  Oh, and you brought up the 905 and 945.  That's up to you.  I personally don't use them that much, I don't like that you have a generally fixed angle you have to use them at, and prefer the 158E as my daily driver.  That said, when I do need a 905 type for drag soldering where the knife won't work (tight spaces where I can't drag horizontally), I have a TS80 with a 905-like tip that I use to drag vertically.  So you'll need 3-5 tips depending on what you really need.  The C245-748 is an absolute winner for anything SMD that you don't need to drag solder.  Can't recommend that one enough.  Daily driver is personal preference I guess.  I prefer the 158E, but if you like the 905 and are used to it, you can go with that, and possibly skip the 157E since you can drag solder with the 905 tip too.  But the 157E is great for fixing solder bridges.  Then you need something big.  That's totally up to you, you have my suggestions.  Good luck!                     
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 08:33:05 pm by Ungolian »
 

Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #528 on: August 03, 2022, 10:04:22 pm »
Thanks, @Ungolian! I appreciate you sharing your experiences. I will look at your choice of numbers closer :-). The big one (966) is likely an overkill for me, if I'm to believe the videos showing how well C245 does heat transfer in general - I might be ok with 039 or 939 knives. My most-heavy stuff is soldering threaded inserts (like M3 thread, or #4-40 or#6-32 thread) to the ground polygons (horizontal, opening aligned to the edge of the PCB) - I often use those to fixate a "sandwich" of PCBs inside of a shell case, sandwich slides in, threaded inserts align to the holes in the shell case, screws go into recessed/countersunk spots. I solder the inserts with Hakko-style copper tips, roughly the size of #256 in C245 world (but hakko style gives way worse heat transfer). So, #966 is likely an overkill.

I'm actually looking at AliEx's option (kelly~something I think is the name of the store), looks like I can get 5 pcs of different shapes for about $60CAD (~$47USD) - might be a good option to try different shapes before paying about the same amount for a single genuine JBC tip.

I'm with you on small/conical tips bundled with T3A - not my cup of tea as well.

On a side note, I'm also thinking that maybe I should try to opto-decouple T3A's auto-sleep input with something like PC817 (of which I have few on hand), power the LED side from 24V source (small current, so something like 10kOhm resistor would suffice) and use transistor side to drive the MCU input line. I'm kinda uneasy about bare MCU pin being exposed to my bench, on which I have silicone mats... which can get... static-y... I will be doing visual inspection of T3A's inside upon receipt anyway, it's easy to add a PC817 on a tiny piece of protoboard, under heat-shrink protection layer at that time... Any thoughts on this?
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #529 on: August 04, 2022, 12:21:51 am »
Any suggestions on reachable-from-Canada sources of genuine or good clone C245 tips?
Try Accessotronic, they are in Quebec. You may need to fiddle with the search though, as their web site is absolute garbage, has been like that for years. Also my shipping experience with them was very slow, i recall they are a 1 man shop. But the products are genuine.
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Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #530 on: August 04, 2022, 12:50:42 am »
Thanks, @Bud! Yeah, I also found DiverseElectronics, also in Montreal, like Accessotronic. And I was spot on with my price guessing - price, per tip, is 47...60 CAD + tax. I'm leaning towards trying with clones first to get a feel of tip's shape, then once I know what I like - I can buy a genuine one to fully enjoy... Probably will go with that kelly...-something store on AliEx, reviews are not too bad, they seem to be in soldering tools business, will get a variety (5 pieces) for $60 shipped... Will see... But thanks a lot for the lead - I feel I will need the genuine anyway, just not for $300 to just try :-)... Have a good night!
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #531 on: August 04, 2022, 12:58:38 am »
Yes, such approach makes sense.
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Offline gljuk

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #532 on: August 04, 2022, 08:38:23 am »
Hi!
Got JBC DDE station + T245 grip and i want to add second iron for very rare desoldering jobs. Does the Aixun T3B stand suit JBC out of the box, or it has different pinout and will not work?
Thanks
 

Offline tcurdt

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #533 on: August 04, 2022, 11:11:12 am »
Funny - I was about ask a similar thing.

I also still have a genuine JBC handle and was wondering if I could just attach it by replacing the plug.
Seems like the station uses a GX16 - but what's the pin out of the station and the handle?
And will the station recognize the handle correctly? or is there some special resistor that needs to be added?
 

Offline gljuk

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #534 on: August 04, 2022, 03:01:37 pm »
Interesting. There is so much fake T245 handles out there. Do they all use different pinout than original? Or Aixun only uses different pinout/jack?
 

Offline Ungolian

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #535 on: August 04, 2022, 05:52:40 pm »
 

Offline tcurdt

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #536 on: August 04, 2022, 07:01:37 pm »
Pinout is different between JBC and Aixun.  Find the info here.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modify-aixun-t3b-to-work-with-t245-c245-and-t12-cartridges/msg3862187/#msg3862187

Ah, cool - but I am a little confused on the details of the write up.

Is "Tip Sense" the connection to the TC? But IIUC the TC is different so there is no easy way to just interchange the handles unless the firmware allows for full calibration.
Does the Aixun handle come with some kind of inactivity sensor the JBC does not have?
What's the ID Tool? A mechanism to detect the kind of handle? Isn't that just a resistor?


Aixun:
1 GND
2 VCC
3 Tip Sense
4 Inactivity Sense
5 GND
6 ID Tool

JBC:
1 GND (black)
2 VCC (red)
3 TC (green)
4 N/C
5 "Bridge Pin 6 GND"?
6 "Bridge Pin 5 ID Tool"?


Either way - it does not seem like re-ordering the cables on a new plug will make it work completely.
At least that's how I read it.
 

Offline Ungolian

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #537 on: August 04, 2022, 07:44:36 pm »
If you're getting a T3B with the stand, a handle will be included.  You can compare it to your handle.  There's relatively little info on the T3B so far, and I only have the T3A, so I can't speak to the differences other than the obvious voltage/wattage difference, and that the T3B uses questionable electrolytics in the power supply like the T3A and should be replaced when you can.  There are others here who have both and will probably chime in with answers. 
 

Offline tcurdt

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #538 on: August 04, 2022, 08:44:31 pm »
If you're getting a T3B with the stand, a handle will be included.  You can compare it to your handle.

I am talking about he T3A - not the T3B. Although I assume the pinout of the handles are shared between the two.

My question was:

Can I somehow connect an original JBC T245 handle to an Aixun T3A and everything is working.

But it sounds like that might not be so easy.
 

Offline ramphands

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #539 on: August 08, 2022, 04:39:50 am »
Hello all!

I've just received my T3A as an upgrade to my ancient Hakko 936.  Such a shocking difference in operation!

Anyway I have a question for those who have replaced the capacitors - I see that some people have managed to disconnect the power lead to the front board without removing the faceplate.  However, I'm not entirely sure how people have managed this - my 150mm needlenose pliers don't seem to be able to grab the connector at the right angle to disconnect the locking tab.  They can grab the connector at the sides (just) but then there's no space for any additional tools to push the tab in.

I'm a bit leery of brute-forcing the connector, so am unsure as how to proceed.  Could someone give me some pointers?

Many thanks!
 

Offline SHTechnics

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #540 on: August 08, 2022, 07:35:08 pm »
Hello all!

I've just received my T3A as an upgrade to my ancient Hakko 936.  Such a shocking difference in operation!

Anyway I have a question for those who have replaced the capacitors - I see that some people have managed to disconnect the power lead to the front board without removing the faceplate.  However, I'm not entirely sure how people have managed this - my 150mm needlenose pliers don't seem to be able to grab the connector at the right angle to disconnect the locking tab.  They can grab the connector at the sides (just) but then there's no space for any additional tools to push the tab in.

I'm a bit leery of brute-forcing the connector, so am unsure as how to proceed.  Could someone give me some pointers?

Many thanks!

I did this with a little screwdriver, just push on the little tab on the side of the connector and pull gently. Afterwards push the connector back in with the help of the little screwdriver.
 
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Offline ramphands

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #541 on: August 09, 2022, 01:27:56 pm »
Mission accomplished!  Thank you very much indeed.
 

Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #542 on: September 02, 2022, 03:57:02 pm »
Hi all,

As a matter of giving back to this community - I wanted to share my T3A shenanigans :-).

First, I've re-capped it like many here have done, below is the list of capacitors (part numbers are from Digikey):

PART: 1189-3155-ND
MFG : RUBYCON / 400BXW82MEFR18X25
DESC: CAP ALUM 82UF 20% 400V RADIAL COO : JAPAN ECCN:

PART: P122334CT-ND   <--- NEED 2 of these!!!
MFG : PANASONIC ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS (VA) / EEU-FS1V102LB
DESC: CAP ALUM 1000UF 20% 35V RADIAL COO : MALAYSIA

PART: 1189-1890-ND
MFG : RUBYCON / 35ZLH470MEFC10X16
DESC: CAP ALUM 470UF 20% 35V RADIAL COO : INDONESIA

PART: 1189-50YXM10MEFRTA5X11CT-ND
MFG : RUBYCON (VA) / 50YXM10MEFRTA5X11
DESC: CAP ALUM 10UF 20% 50V RADIAL COO : JAPAN


All capacitors are 10,000 hours rated, except the high-voltage one which is rated for 12,000 hours. All 105 C.
While I was at it - I've also re-soldered wires on the back edge of the PSU board - the AC wires, including ground were rather poorly soldered, fixed that.

Next, I decided to add opto-coupling protection to the "dormancy" input of the base station. Schematic is attached if you are interested.

As in case of an ESD event energy will have to be dumped somewhere and that could be +24V rail of the PSU (need power source to light up the LED side of the optocoupler = inevitable to have DC power line galvanically exposed), I had to add ESD protection in addition to optocoupling. I choose to go a bit of "belt and suspenders", opting to have two-stage response: (1) bi-directional TVS clamping it in ~1nS to +/- 30V, then (2) classic stack of two switching diodes finishing it off in ~3nS more. In case of negative spike it shorts to GND at the connector via TVS and then 1N4148 diode, in case of positive spike - energy still gets clamped by TVS and then gets dumped into nearest, on-board capacitors (1uF + 0.1uF to cover broad frequency spectrum of ESD pulse), the small remainder may get dumped into PSU's caps.

Some considerations for the PC817 chip - since the onboard input (MCU board of T3A) already has a series protection diode I've made sure the voltage drop on the transistor side of PC817 is minimal. Otherwise MCU may not sense its activation as logic zero. As expected, with small LED-side current (<2.5mA) the difference between "noname" generic PC817 and brand-names was visible, nonames were dropping about 80% more voltage @ the same LED current. So, I chose the smallest drop PC817 (Kento JC817) from the stock I have on hand. Having said that, I believe there is sufficient buffer there, so generic PC817 should work as well.

I've also added debouncing capacitor (with a current limiting resistor) on the MCU side of the optocoupler - probably unnecessary, but since I don't know what software debouncing is in place on firmware side I chose to be safe. The handle->stand's collar circuit makes a helluva bouncy contact :-) !


I have then put together a PCB with intent to mount it on the inside of the back panel, using two connectors (GND and Input) as both mechanical mounting points and electrical connection. Once received from the fab - assembled and mounted, as shown on photos. The only two modifications to the T3A in that area had to be: (1) file down the inside plastic collar of each connector by 1.6mm (thickness of protector PCB) to allow enough thread to be grabbed by the nut; and (2) snip the ring terminal off the MCU input wire - it gets soldered to the protector PCB instead. Oh, and +24V is obtained via a short wire from the back panel's 24VDC connector (its center pin, red wire in the photo).

If you are going to repeat this setup - note the transparent insulation sheet behind the new PCB - important as it sits close to the vents, you don't want stray wires to short 24V to GND :-). BTW, both the protector PCB and the plastic insulator sheet are NOT blocking vents, hard to see in the photos, but there is still about 1/8" between the inside of the back panel with vents and the plastic sheet. So, convection is still possible.


I hope this will help someone.


Have a great day!


« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 03:18:46 am by al777 »
 
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Offline yelkvi

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #543 on: September 05, 2022, 07:09:13 pm »
Very well. It is strange that the Chinese manufacturers did not do this at the factory.
Unfortunately, on my soldering station, this processor port has already failed. And the soldering iron does not go into sleep mode. Replacing the processor will not help - there is no firmware. And the Chinese will not give it.
 

Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #544 on: September 05, 2022, 07:51:43 pm »
Unless you have tried it already... I'd try to short/bypass the protection diode on the MCU board - on a slim chance that MCU input got fried-but-not-completely... Maybe pulling it harder down (like real 0V instead of about ~0.5...0.6V diode drop) would help the injured input to still function... Hard to reach the MCU board though - either remove the front panel (pain in the back... glued...), or have a really steady hand and a slim soldering iron you could hold by the end of the handle, then you could try to reach out to D3 (check - I might be wrong), and solder at least one wire to it's anode. Page 21 of this discussion has a picture with marking on the diode for this input. You only need one wire soldered to try, no need to really short the diode - as long as you have it's anode on a long-ish wire you can try shorting it to ground, see if it works... 

If I'd have to go down that path - I'd first lay a thin single-strand wire with a tinned end close to D3's anode, glue it to the MCU board (a drop of hot glue, molten in place by soldering iron?), then with long tweezers I would bend the wire end to touch D3 anode, and then I would try to put a small solder blob over it. One touch operation, in terms of soldering effort.

Now if it does work - I'd certainly do something like I did - to protect what's left of the MCU input :-).

Good luck!
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #545 on: September 05, 2022, 08:06:51 pm »
i do not understand why these GPIO input protections have to be so elaborate.

I mean i do understand how is broken on a 3v3 mcu. (i have seen / done this before myself elsewhere, simply by static discharge, touching it). So i am guessing if the user isn't grounded and they touched the exposed metal ring on the handle? This is how it gets damaged right?

Ok, but if there is a clamping diode already... then why didn't that adequately protect the input? And if not enough, can we not do some simpler type of mods here to protect it well enough?

In terms of busted MCU, i do understand that the USB firmware update isn't so great. However if you can get an image to flash, that is really the only obstacle? Because those ST protection feature of the STM32. Then I think really Aixun should be more helpful in this regard and offer to send you a pre-flashed MCU. For a few bucks spare parts charge. If they want to preserve their firmwares.

Otherwise well there is some kindda tricky POC code that is supposed to work for some versions of chinese clone MCU. Like the GD**** brand or whatever. That has a potential to work around those firmware read protections. It really depends specifically on which specific model of MCU. Probably needs a bit more looking into. But i would try to contact Aixun again first though. Since that would be the easier solution.
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #546 on: September 05, 2022, 08:43:16 pm »
hmm. hopefully there is some update to those input protections on the new aixun t420 station that steve reviewed today. which might be visible in some high resolution photos of its pcb.

btw thanks for the list of caps to replace (from digikey). i think that is well worth it and definately intend to be doing that. very helpful
 

Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #547 on: September 05, 2022, 09:02:03 pm »
@dreamcat4 - the diode which is on the MCU board already is essentially a reverse polarity protection element, not a clamping diode in any meaningful way... A backflow prevention valve, I'd say... It's in series with the sensing line [MCU GPIO pin] -- [diode] -- [connector on the back of T3A]. It's not a valid ESD protection. At best it's a crude protection against shorting of the 24V supply (right inside of the melting handle :-) ) to the GPIO MCU line...

High potential ESD discharge will introduce energy into the circuit, for which there will be no other path to ground other than the MCU GPIO pin... BTW, polarity of ESD potential can be positive or negative, in the latter case - the on-board diode will gladly open and pass it all through... all several kilovolts, minus 0.5-0.7V of its own voltage drop :-). If it's positive pulse of high voltage - the diode will gladly breakdown and pass it all through as well :-). In short - ESD protection does need to be thought through, obviously not the case with AiXun T3A design in that particular area :-).

BTW, it doesn't have to be elaborate either, see something like TI's high speed TVSes (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpd1e05u06.pdf). Tiny package... My design decisions were influenced heavily by what I had on hand :-). One also needs to consider the normal operating voltage of the circuit under protection, like 24V in case of my design, because with TVS + diodes I'm protecting the 24V rail from ESD, while the MCU input is protected separately by the optocoupler. So I had to use an appropriate stand off voltage-rated TVS.  If done at the design stage of the entire device (T3A) it could have been very simple, like a single ceramic capacitor, maybe 0.1uF or 1uF from this line to the ground (especially considering how slow, pretty much static this "signal" line is)... or that plus a BAV99... or better - the TI's integrated TVS referenced above. But then - there are limits of simple protection methods, including breakdown of dielectric in those capacitors... I still like optocoupling better for anything that leaves the confines of whatever my design is.

Good luck with re-capping - definitely a worthy upgrade for a worthy product!
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #548 on: September 05, 2022, 09:32:43 pm »
so well understood

lol when you mentioned the ti tvs you just reminded me that i already had previously started a thread on input protecting my firewire audio interface. with a very similar idea, in fact the firewire differential operating voltage for those compatible tvs is supposed to be around 30v or something.

see i could or should probaby add some tvs's to my digikey order when ordering those caps.


lets see now where my other thread was on those tvs things...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/how-add-esd-surge-supression-mod-to-firewire-audio-interface/msg4326289/#msg4326289
 

Offline al777

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #549 on: September 05, 2022, 09:33:15 pm »
BTW, if anyone will be using the list of capacitors I've posted above - don't forget that you will need two of the 1000uFx35V (not one!). I've updated my posting above to reflect that.
 
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