EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: asperised on July 13, 2021, 10:50:41 am
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I recently came across this soldering station available locally in my country https://www.babaocamachine.com/product/aixun-t3a-smart-soldering-station-with-t12-pen-bits-ku-is-il-stand/ (https://www.babaocamachine.com/product/aixun-t3a-smart-soldering-station-with-t12-pen-bits-ku-is-il-stand/). It seems quite tempting to be honest with that big display and that power rating. It seems to support the standard hakko t12 tips. What do you guys think?
A quick search on aliexpress got me this https://www.aliexpress.com/af/aixun-t3a.html?d=y&origin=n&SearchText=aixun+t3a&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20210713024129 (https://www.aliexpress.com/af/aixun-t3a.html?d=y&origin=n&SearchText=aixun+t3a&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20210713024129)
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I see there is a T245 version too. I can't see why it wouldn't give decent results.
Easy100fix Store are recommended, and respond quickly to questions.
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AKt4pQ (https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AKt4pQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjppo4UfXS4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjppo4UfXS4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds2Xq3dwV30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds2Xq3dwV30)
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Yeah this thing looks incredible for ~$100. Its overkill for T12 though, I would get the t245 version if you are going to purchase.
- 200W claimed PSU
- color LCD
- USB upgrade port
- Sleep connection to stand
If it has a decent micro inside that can be reprogrammed, and reasonable thermocouple amp, this would be gold. Cheaper than unisolder.
It looks like they are using similar method as JBC to detect sleep, a single wire connection goes to the stand.
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Mine is due to be delivered by the 6th August, so I'll be sure to do a teardown and test.
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Mine is due to be delivered by the 6th August, so I'll be sure to do a teardown and test.
im interested as well. where did you order it from?
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Mine is due to be delivered by the 6th August, so I'll be sure to do a teardown and test.
That would be great. Unfortunately in my country only the t12 version is available and aliexpress has stopped shipping to India. I'll have to talk to the reseller if they can get me a t245 version. I'll be waiting for your teardown and review.
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It arrived today. I'll post some details later on, and the review video will be next Monday on my YouTube channel.
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cant wait to see the review on these ive been eyeing these for a bit now and am very tempted get one on the way
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Just waiting for some suction cups etc. The only way to the logic board is through the glass or plastic front panel which seems to be bonded on.
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oh man thats a bummer. hoping it can be safely pulled apart. id love to replace my t12 stations with these if they are better. i have 5 ksger stations setup in different areas (with higher end stations on my main desk of course but i dont care much what happens to the ksgers for the price so if one walks away its not the end of the world i mean i hope they dont but still) these look awesome and i can use 245's hmmm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg)
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Main PCB Photo
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There are few strange spots on the pcb. I also see some solder balls on the pcb. It needs cleaning and inspection. Mosfet seems to be the same as on KSGER boards.
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In your video you said the handle was the same as the ksger i did ask the company and they told me the handles on these were interchangeable so if someone orders the 245 version they can simply swap handles / tips to use t12. im wondering if these do work with ksger and visa versa it would be great to order the 245 then also be able to use the handle for t12 when someone wants to from the ksger station on this one. have you been able to test that yet?
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The T245 handles seem to be interchangeable.
I tried a T12 handle which it correctly detects, but it doesn't read back the temperature correctly :-//
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Close up of the bodges and the connections from the iron connector
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This looks like a winner. Assuming it really is 200w (manufacturers have been known to overstate specs), you get better performance than the KSGER, better display, easier FW updates with USB port, sexier casing, supports 245 handle out of the box... It's a hard upgrade to the KSGER. Plus it's roughly the same price as a KSGER+245 handle+3 tips. The tips are probably garbage, but having a few junk tips on hand isn't always a bad thing. The board quality may be an issue, but most people on here should have no problem fixing a few joints. Is it possible to get the power board out too? Is it hot glued in or something?
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I will measure the power when I can find my power meter lead. The PSU certainly seems capable though. The T12 tips seem to generally have a resistance of 8 ohms, so will consume about 72W max. The resistance of my largest JBC tip is 2.4 ohms, so potentially capable of quite a bit more!
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ill mess with the handles when it gets here and see if we can get the ksger ones to work properly with it. imo it would be great especially for those who already have the ksger and order the 245 version and want to use t12 also with the same unit.
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can you possibly verify if these work on both 110 and 220 i have had 3 different answers now. the place i ordered one from said it doesnt matter another seller said yes they are different inside and the email i got back from the company said it can be wired either way internally? im in the usa and i found a seller with a great price but they dont offer both they tell me it doesnt matter and you can use either one.
i also found a seller who sells only the handles for these so if you have the 245 and want the t12 that matches these you can just order the handle instead of a whole new system. once my order ships and i know they are legit ill post a link
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In the video, you mentioned that there was no sealing around the tip to prevent flux vapour from getting inside, on the AliExpress site, the blurb mentions a sealing ring, and that you can twist the metal ring to remove or install new tips.
Does the sealing ring actually grip the tip when you tighten the metal ring? This could be the seal to prevent flux vapour from getting in
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I think that's for one of the other handpieces, there's certainly nothing on the T245 style one.
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This looks like a winner. Assuming it really is 200w (manufacturers have been known to overstate specs), you get better performance than the KSGER, better display, easier FW updates with USB port, sexier casing, supports 245 handle out of the box... It's a hard upgrade to the KSGER. Plus it's roughly the same price as a KSGER+245 handle+3 tips. The tips are probably garbage, but having a few junk tips on hand isn't always a bad thing. The board quality may be an issue, but most people on here should have no problem fixing a few joints. Is it possible to get the power board out too? Is it hot glued in or something?
I tested it with a JBC tip and it measured 200W on the power meter. Since it's supplying DC, it just supplies 24V to whatever heating element is used, so with the usual impedance of 2-4 ohms for a C245 cartridge, it just supplies full current.
The genuine JBC seemed to supply power through some kind of H-bridge arrangement, also possibly from 24V AC or at least 24V DC but with no smoothing.
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can you possibly verify if these work on both 110 and 220 i have had 3 different answers now. the place i ordered one from said it doesnt matter another seller said yes they are different inside and the email i got back from the company said it can be wired either way internally? im in the usa and i found a seller with a great price but they dont offer both they tell me it doesnt matter and you can use either one.
i also found a seller who sells only the handles for these so if you have the 245 and want the t12 that matches these you can just order the handle instead of a whole new system. once my order ships and i know they are legit ill post a link
I couldn't find anything to say it doesn't work on 110V. On all the packaging, there's markers for T12/C245/936 but nothing to indicate the device in the box is specific to any supply voltage - it just says 230/110V
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The genuine JBC seemed to supply power through some kind of H-bridge arrangement,
yeah somebody else on the forum here found and re created the H bridge part of the circuit in their own custom controller design. it is used to switch between the T245 and T210. because in the smaller c210 cartridges it does not permit the same physical arrangement between the thermocouple and the heating element. so then the wiring it is different
in fact you can find and buy these separate rectangular extension type converter boxes on aliexpress. with a pass thu, and it has some sort of switching circuitry inside, to let you hook up BOTH t245 and t210 handles to a single input into the soldering station (of t245). but you cannot use both handles at the same time
of course another interesting accessory are the nano tweezers. and the nano handle (singular). but heavens knows how those are wired up
the other consideration is that all of these smaller jbc handles are all of a lower power rating. and also they have different thermocouple coefficients. so ideally you really need the firmware in the base station to be configurable to accommodate the differences
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Any time something seems to good to be true, human nature begs the question "What's the catch?". Are there any performance/firmware issues? Is there something different about the handle? Maybe it gets hotter than average? Same tip to grip distance as the JBC? Other than a few (possibly) questionable joints someone may get in their units, and cheap Chinese filtering caps, could this possibly be a unicorn that does everything as advertised and is cheap??!!
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someone else i know ordered both the 245 and t12 and they will def put them through their paces at work. he runs jbc stuff all day long and he will def tell me if these will keep up lol. i just found out tonight he has them on the way should be a week or so before they arrive. he works with his jbc and metcal all day every day he will for sure nit pick them to death lol. he said he will open them up fully and try to get some psu pics.
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Any time something seems to good to be true, human nature begs the question "What's the catch?". Are there any performance/firmware issues? Is there something different about the handle? Maybe it gets hotter than average? Same tip to grip distance as the JBC? Other than a few (possibly) questionable joints someone may get in their units, and cheap Chinese filtering caps, could this possibly be a unicorn that does everything as advertised and is cheap??!!
The handle is the same as a genuine JBC. It does get warm, but that's why JBC now supply a foam sleeve.
The main consideration is it's supplying the heater directly from a 24V DC supply with no current limiting. If the MOSFET fails, the tip will die, if the temperature sensing fails the tip will die, plus we don't know the long term effects of effectively having a non-current limited source supplying these tips
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In view of recent developments with soldering stations I "carefully" conclude that the "classical" stations are pricewise and qualitywise blown from the market.
However, with the exception for the professional side and use.
Frans
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Any time something seems to good to be true, human nature begs the question "What's the catch?". Are there any performance/firmware issues? Is there something different about the handle? Maybe it gets hotter than average? Same tip to grip distance as the JBC? Other than a few (possibly) questionable joints someone may get in their units, and cheap Chinese filtering caps, could this possibly be a unicorn that does everything as advertised and is cheap??!!
The handle is the same as a genuine JBC. It does get warm, but that's why JBC now supply a foam sleeve.
The main consideration is it's supplying the heater directly from a 24V DC supply with no current limiting. If the MOSFET fails, the tip will die, if the temperature sensing fails the tip will die, plus we don't know the long term effects of effectively having a non-current limited source supplying these tips
A thanks to SteveyG the great video review.
I guess the same can be said of the T12 clones like Ksger and Quicko. If nothing goes wrong they will work well. If certain failures happen then you lose a tip or worst start a fire. I have a Ksger and I like it much better than my Weller 1010NA. Quicker to get to temp, easier to change tips, shorter tip to hand length and a sleep function that works under real use. Now I only pull out the Weller to remove some SMD using 2 solder irons like chopsticks.
These T3A look attractive to me, but so far I haven't needed the extra power and buying a set of real JBC tips would add considerably to the total cost of ownership. I doubt if the clone tips will function as well as the real deal.
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Sounds like a mod to the power source may be in order. Probably not any room on the board itself, so maybe a daughterboard? Possibly a more robust MOSFET? I don't have one yet, so I can't really comment on the one that's already in there. Just wondering about mods to improve durability.
And thanks, Steven. I watch all of your vids, and appreciate the work you are doing.
P.S. I wouldn't mind seeing you do another flux video. Soldering isn't always pretty. I do a lot of work on older audio through hole stuff, lot's of oxidation. Everything in your current flux video is fine for nice, clean, SMD work, but not so great for things I do. Rosin flux- MG Chemicals, Rectorseal Nokorode, Delcast, SRA, Radio Shack, LA Co, and anything else you think appropriate for problem soldering.
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Interesting D2 comes from the USB port Vbus, so they might have thought of powering the iron from that. Or perhaps just for during the prototype phase.
Here is the FET: http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4413.pdf (http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4413.pdf)
I wouldn't expect it to get much over 70C, probably less, as normal soldering uses low average power. But you could replace it with something bigger if you like, the gate is driven by a transistor.
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Not the best mosfet for the job.
They could have put an AOD403 which handles 55A, TO252 package is marginally larger than SOIC8, so no excuses.
Doing so they save some pennies to invest in proper advertising:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1242216)
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i did find out (from the company) they do claim you can use them on either 220 or 110 they claim there are not really 2 different models. i went ahead and ordered one to take a look at. i may go ahead and change out the mosfet for something better we will see.
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As SteveyG said, that MOSFET and the temperature sensing are the only two things keeping the tip from going nuclear. Makes sense to improve what you can. Seems like a fairly easy fix.
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Sounds like a mod to the power source may be in order. Probably not any room on the board itself, so maybe a daughterboard? Possibly a more robust MOSFET?
this ^^ :-+
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I doubt any controller, even jbc, handles such situation.
If the MOSFET shorts out, you'll have a bad day.
But it should be sized to make sure it won't happen easily.
Don't get paranoic! :scared:
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I doubt any controller, even jbc, handles such situation.
If the MOSFET shorts out, you'll have a bad day.
But it should be sized to make sure it won't happen easily.
Don't get paranoic! :scared:
JBC uses transformer, not SMPS, so output voltage is not stable. Current sensing in that case can be helpful to measure actual power delivered and adjust on/off time accordingly to deliver desired amount of power. Or to detect type of cartridge used based on current consumption. Most likely the only thing it can protect is electronics in case when cartridge is shorted.
I don't have JBC but ERSA I-CON has current sense as well. It won't help at all if pass element (TRIAC) is shorted.
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Current detection can't protect anything from disaster. If the mosfet shorts, all the power from the transformer will go into the tip, no matter what.
Sure, the controller will read 20amps.
And what can it do to stop it? Maybe showing "Error" in the screen? Beeping? :-DD
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Beeping?
Beeping is better than nothing. Fire alarms also cannot extinguish fire...
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Fire alarms are usually connected to water sprinklers :D.
Beeping would be pretty useless. You have very little time to react, in 10 seconds, before you even realise what's going on, the tip will have melted.
*beeeep* What's that? Why is this beeping? Error code... what? Thermal runwaway? Disconnect pow...? Where's that orange glowing coming from?
Burning the mosfet is a really rare condition when driving resistive loads (within mosfet working limits).
That's why you don't see cheap T12 stations burning everywhere. It can happen, but not a common thing.
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Fire alarms are usually connected to water sprinklers :D.
Beeping would be pretty useless. You have very little time to react, in 10 seconds, before you even realise what's going on, the tip will have melted.
It's not to save the tip, it's to save the rest of the lab. I don't mind having this feature if it doesn't cost much extra.
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You are supposed to solder in a proper place, some materials can already burn at normal soldering temps.
The tip will glow red hot for 10 seconds and die, simple as that. Nothing will happen if placed in the stand.
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Yes this is all true. The tips overheats so fast. So adding a current sense does not help. (My mistake)
I suppose the right type of a solution would be to have an extra independent safety cut off (another 2nd mosfet or relay). That is only for this task. If the MCU detects the tip temperature is exceeding a certain preset safety value (for example 450c or 500c / whatever you like). And also that the has temperature kept increasing during an overshoot time, when the main driving mosfet is actually already been switched off. That the temp kept rising for a time window period that is longer than the longest hysteresis / catch up time of the thermocouple. So to avoid false detection of latent heating to propagate and be seen.
However this is also assuming you are using (for example) a genuine and high quality JBC tip. A tip is not have problems with the TC disconnecting itself. Because that failure would render this method useless. Like inside those cheap T12 chinese tip, which for that happens in those ones very often.
OK so this is the same safety feature is already done in 3d printer world. For the hot end safety cut off, and sometimes the bed heater too. However on a 3d printer thermal mass is typically much larger, so it has significantly more time to detect / react. However maybe it can work here too. Depending on how difficult / easy to catch during these much shorter time period. (The basic fundamental principle is the same however).
Yet to justify the cost of adding this safety feature... you are indeed balancing the chance of failure, against the extra cost of the 2nd safety mosfet (or relay). And extra coding in the firmware. Which adds to the upfront cost of each station. Against the cost of loosing 1 tip (for genuine JBC, might be about $25 YMMV).
Of course MOSFET does fail sometimes, but it's not so often they fail. Making this something of a "luxury feature" i guess? Still, quite an interesting topic to discuss.
But like you say earlier (above)... it's a lot easier. Simpler and more sense to just start with the best possible MOSFET you can use. As your main heater mosfet. And don't use dodgy unreliable mosfet to begin with. And accept the risk for loose $24 one time.
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Sure a simple master switching relay would do it.
Anyways not a major concern unless something else blows the mosfet (bad wiring, defective tip..)
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well the way i blew up my mosfet was because there was a fault in the handle. Causing an intermittent short in the handle between the 2 heater terminals. So if you get some a poor connection. Or getd damaged over heavy usage, the cable strain relief etc. Things like that
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I remember that :D.
One of my tips melted the internal insulator and the two wires shorted.
The mosfet didn't blew, but the tip became almost red hot at the middle!
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well the way i blew up my mosfet was because there was a fault in the handle. Causing an intermittent short in the handle between the 2 heater terminals. So if you get some a poor connection. Or getd damaged over heavy usage, the cable strain relief etc. Things like that
If you are worried about this type of thing in a design, use a smart FET with guaranteed short circuit and overtemp protection. Siliconwizard used TLE9201SG, I'm not familiar with that part. Another user used VN series automotive high side switch, has overtemp, overcurrent, ESD, short to ground, short to VCC, etc. protection. Its what I will try to use, overkill but cheap as its a legacy part.
Not something easily modded into an existing design though, you have to implement it in your own design or an add-on board.
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Just some quick notes. The microcontroller is a GD32F303RCT6 which is comparable to the STM32F103RC. The GD32 has a 120Mhz clock, while the STM32 has a 72Mhz clock. BUT the STM32 has 5 more A/D controller channels (21 vs. 16 for the GD32). So while the GD32 can't handle as much analog input , it is 60% faster than the STM32. Both are perfectly fine for the jobs they are doing.
https://www.gigadevice.com/microcontroller/gd32f303rct6/ (https://www.gigadevice.com/microcontroller/gd32f303rct6/)
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html (https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html)
As for the mosfet replacement, doesn't the AOD403 DPAK have the wrong pin out? The source and gate are inverted. Alpha and Omega Semiconductors are the only ones that make the D403. I'm sure there are other mosfets that will work, but for those that know just enough to be dangerous (like me), a direct swap to the AOD403 would have the full transformer voltage going into the gate, not the source. Which is bad.[attachimg=1]
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Just some quick notes. The microcontroller is a GD32F303RCT6 which is comparable to the STM32F103RC. The GD32 has a 120Mhz clock, while the STM32 has a 72Mhz clock. BUT the STM32 has 5 more A/D controller channels (21 vs. 16 for the GD32). So while the GD32 can't handle as much analog input , it is 60% faster than the STM32. Both are perfectly fine for the jobs they are doing.
https://www.gigadevice.com/microcontroller/gd32f303rct6/ (https://www.gigadevice.com/microcontroller/gd32f303rct6/)
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html (https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html)
As for the mosfet replacement, doesn't the AOD403 DPAK have the wrong pin out? The source and gate are inverted. Alpha and Omega Semiconductors are the only ones that make the D403. I'm sure there are other mosfets that will work, but for those that know just enough to be dangerous (like me), a direct swap to the AOD403 would have the full transformer voltage going into the gate, not the source. Which is bad. (Attachment Link)
Likely the extra clock as you said, for driving that high res LCD. If you watch SDGs other vid, JBC had a PIC33 driving the LCD, and the update was glacial.
Prices used to be good, but now its terrible: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/GigaDevice_GigaDevice_GD32F303RCT6_GD32F303RCT6_C131443.html (https://lcsc.com/product-detail/GigaDevice_GigaDevice_GD32F303RCT6_GD32F303RCT6_C131443.html)
And the real STM32F303 is a completely different beast as well, enhanced high speed ADCs, etc. So its not worth most of us using GDF303 IMO, as its not directly compatible.
If you are swapping a SOIC8 for a DPAK, then, its not going to be a "direct swap" regardless, and you should expect to do some bodging :D.
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Thanks! This all is important to point out. I'm sure someone would look at that thinking "I've never done this before, but that mosfet is right on the edge of the board, I can get to it easy." It really looks like the pads would line up. I wasn't sure if bodging was recommended.
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Why would you needlessly swap SO8 for D-PAK? :palm:. First of all there is no need for replacement, it's good enough as it is. Secondly pinout does not match as G and S are on opposite sides. If you are really eager to swap, you can find something beefier in the same package, or in SO-8 FL, DFN8 5x6 which have similar dimensions but there are beefier devices available. Not to say AOD403 is a shitty upgrade to begin with. It has almost the same RDS(ON) as AO4413, therefore will heat up just as much under the same load. And trace fill area on the PCB which acts as a heatsink is the limiting factor here. FWIW AOD403 and AO4413 are more or less same MOSFET and higher current rating in the datasheet is mostly because D-PAK package can dissipate more heat. But it only matters if there is where to dump that heat, and there is not on this PCB. If you want replacement to provide any noticeable reliability improvement, it needs to have lower RDS(ON). For example actual upgrade would be
Si4497DY.
EDIT: As AO4413 has 25V max Gate-Source Voltage, it might be that circuit relies on that and ties the gate to GND through what looks to be a 1k resistor while MOSFET source is powered from 24V. There is 10K between G-S, so these 2 resistors form a voltage divider. But 20V will be exceeded nonetheless, and in that case Si4497DY is not suitable and many other MOSFETs with 20V VGS.
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On further datasheet inspection AOD403 and AO4413 are really the same MOSFET. They have exactly the same Input Capacitance, Output Capacitance, Reverse Transfer Capacitance, Gate resistance and so on. It must be the same silicon die and the only difference is package.
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Not the best mosfet for the job.
They could have put an AOD403 which handles 55A, TO252 package is marginally larger than SOIC8, so no excuses.
Doing so they save some pennies to invest in proper advertising:
It would make no difference whatsoever unless PCB provided a lot more heat sinking. And I doubt there is any significant price difference. Also before saying something sensationalist like this, it would be appropriate to look into other specs first and understand them, not just looking at the current rating.
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Got a couple of these with T245 handles to replace my KSGER T12. So far I am impressed with the performance of the hardware itself. I did not realize how much better C245 tips are compared to T12.
The stand it so so. Having two cables running back to the controller is annoying; especially since the feedback cable is like AWG18 so it tangles up easily.
The settings UI is absolutely horrible. The controls are not intuitive at all, I constantly end up doing the wrong thing. I mean, it has a clickable rotary encoder... Why not just use that? Instead the function of the buttons seemingly changes randomly. The 'CH' and 'SET' labels might as well not be there. They need to open source the firmware, this needs a lot of work...
First real bug I noticed is that the language setting does not survive power cycling, it reverts to Chinese every time. My firmware revision is 1.17.
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not sure if it will help but there is a firmware update to 1.18 i think you can download the software once you connect it to the computer it will automatically start the update
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not sure if it will help but there is a firmware update to 1.18 i think you can download the software once you connect it to the computer it will automatically start the update
Important! Before you plug in a USB-C cable into the station, unplug it from mains !!!!! My laptop was very unhappy so say the least (it just shut off luckily, nothing blew). I should have known better but to expect proper isolation in that thing.
The firmware update to 1.18 did indeed fix the English setting. The software is Chinese only as far as I can see. The only way to get through it for me was to use a OCR translator on my phone.
Steps:
1. Go to https://www.jcprogrammer.com/download-center (https://www.jcprogrammer.com/download-center)
2. Download the "AiXun Platform installation package" and install it. (Windows only of course)
3. Open the AIXUN app and click on the last icon with the little rocket.
4. Click on the button right next to the "FT232" icon. That will install a driver. Reboot as requested.
5. Repeat step 3 and connect in the station with a USB-C cable. It should auto update the firmware.
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huh mine did not do that when plugged in. if i had known i would have warned you about that. glad it fixed the issue though.
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First real bug I noticed is that the language setting does not survive power cycling, it reverts to Chinese every time. My firmware revision is 1.17.
Interesting, they must have broken something in the firmware as I still have version 1.15 and the language remains English, though it was English by default for mine.
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yes 1.15 worked correctly when i got my first one (i ordered two along with an extra t12 handle for them) i updated it to 1.17 and had the issue then updated to 1.18 and it was normal again i do not know what else was changed though if anything. i have not been able to really test it yet due to docs telling me no soldering till they give me the ok after my eye surgeries. hopefully soon. no smoke in the eye especially soldering / flux smoke.
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i have one and its generally good but i do wish theyd release a T210 handle for it, i kind of expected they would as JC normally support their kit fairly well. i recently got an OSS team T210 which was a bargain for the money to begin with but something went wrong and the tip went bright red then it just died, so at the moment im actually wondering if i should just spend the cash and get an actual JBC, as far as im aware you can plug any handle into the real ones
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The Unisolder will do that, and is considerably cheaper. You can get the assembled PCBs with connectors, then you need a handle, casing for it, and a power transformer.
Also, depending on your needs, this is a decent dual station that runs the 210 and 245 handles. The Xsoldering Pro.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001998945942.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.f3115c16E44HYY&algo_pvid=b163b32d-70ea-4b30-aeed-3d3f5660865a&algo_exp_id=b163b32d-70ea-4b30-aeed-3d3f5660865a-33 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001998945942.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.f3115c16E44HYY&algo_pvid=b163b32d-70ea-4b30-aeed-3d3f5660865a&algo_exp_id=b163b32d-70ea-4b30-aeed-3d3f5660865a-33)
There are a couple of youtube reviews of it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjZ-1TVAQWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjZ-1TVAQWw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqDtRmbYNvU&t=191s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqDtRmbYNvU&t=191s)
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The Unisolder will do that, and is considerably cheaper. You can get the assembled PCBs with connectors, then you need a handle, casing for it, and a power transformer.
...And also tips and a stand. I think this will end up more than this station.
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Also, depending on your needs, this is a decent dual station that runs the 210 and 245 handles. The Xsoldering Pro.
And it's an unsafe trash. They used slots on PCB and then put low voltage electrolytic cap so that it touches high voltage heatsink, all effort wasted :palm:. KSGER has almost the same issue. High voltage heatsink is placed over low voltage trace. And only solder resist protects from electrical connection between them. The question is what's with PSU of AiXun T3A? It was a quite poor teardown video, since it did not show PSU PCB, and thus it's safety is under question.
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i had the xsoldering pro the psu melted down on it, when that happened the 210 tip went charry red and it literally melted the board to the psu. im not bothering fixing it it sits in the closet. not worth it imo. i sent an email to the company about the t3a from this thread and asked if they can release a 210 handle also then they could update the firmware. the guy who got back to me said he would look into it. this is not the BEST machine either but imo i feel its a better unit then the xsoldering one so far. one of my employees has been using it for the past week daily and he liked it so much he actually ordered 2 of them (so he can use 2 irons at once they are small enough they can easily be stacked and not take up much room) since he keeps his real jbc at home most of the time. he said so far the ones ive been letting him use have not missed a beat at all. how long they will last will need to be seen.
i wish i could do a full teardown but the unit is in use daily right now has been all day for over a week. ill consider it when his come in its a bit tough with my eyesight right now. ill see if he will tear it down for me then.
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The Unisolder will do that, and is considerably cheaper. You can get the assembled PCBs with connectors, then you need a handle, casing for it, and a power transformer.
...And also tips and a stand. I think this will end up more than this station.
Yeah the unisolder boards are $100 (https://www.tindie.com/products/gitdiy/unisolder-52c-finished-circuit-board/). Then add iron, tips, stand, connectors, case, transformer, shipping, etc.
Clearly its a lot higher cost, with some more flexibility.
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so far the biggest annoyance for me with these is how the temp responds when the dial it turned it takes way to many turns to really go much higher or lower. i hope maybe they will fix that with a firmware upgrade to allow faster temp changes. otherwise my employee has used it for over a week daily and he says its as good as his jbc (with real tips) and has not had any issues at all with it. he does a lot of soldering every day this was the only one he has used in that time.
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Here are a couple of PCB pictures of the power supply and parts numbers.
SFF2004: http://www.asemi.com.cn/product/SFF2004-MHCHXM-chanpin.html (http://www.asemi.com.cn/product/SFF2004-MHCHXM-chanpin.html)
TSF10N65M: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1912111437_Truesemi-TSF10N65M_C382379.pdf (https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/1912111437_Truesemi-TSF10N65M_C382379.pdf)
CR6842S: http://www.agspecinfo.com/pdfs/C/CR6842T.PDF (http://www.agspecinfo.com/pdfs/C/CR6842T.PDF)
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Thanks for those pictures. I ran out of time for the video, though I did test it at 5 kV input to output with no issues.
It doesn't look too bad, the separation is fine, just the incoming AC connections look a bit dry onto the PCB.
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I'm actually thinking of buying one, but I have so many T12 tips that I bought from Hakko ( clearance section has a ton of really good ones for around $4 ) but I have been wanting to try the JBC because it has higher power...
One thing I wish they would've done is use the JBC connector, then either make an adapter for KSGER T12 handle or something...
Also, On one video they said you could use the JBC handle which came with this with a KSGER unit; is this accurate? Because in another, or in this thread a KSGER T12 handle in this detects the handle, but doesn't output temp... so the wiring is probably different....
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I think for T12 handle detection it must have some resistance inside. Like on other univerasal stations...
I have a question about power supply. Could you check, what label it has. Because in feedback on Ali I see a photo with 120W label (and a size of power supply looks like 4-5A power supplies). I think the 8A can overload it or makes very high noise on output.
PS: the seller has confirmed that internal power supply is 120W.
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interesting. the company in an email said to me they were 200w for sure so they dont know what they are if this is true.
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The 120W is not a big issue, because C245 tips are about 130W power. But in cold state they can make bigger load.
I found this photo in feedback. The label on PSU is clean and 120W. And PSU looks like 24V 4A-5A with a little bigger transformer. But only one Schottky diode. Perhaps 8A is a peak current.
When I try to compare photos with other PSU on Aliexpress, the PSU 24V 6A (9A peak) is most similar. But it uses two Schottky diodes.
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another test on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1N16azXx_g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1N16azXx_g)
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The 120W is not a big issue, because C245 tips are about 130W power. But in cold state they can make bigger load.
I found this photo in feedback. The label on PSU is clean and 120W. And PSU looks like 24V 4A-5A with a little bigger transformer. But only one Schottky diode. Perhaps 8A is a peak current.
When I try to compare photos with other PSU on Aliexpress, the PSU 24V 6A (9A peak) is most similar. But it uses two Schottky diodes.
Actually it's dual diode in TO220 package, so it'll probably be fine.
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Actually it's dual diode in TO220 package, so it'll probably be fine.
Yes, but chinese PSU for > 6A use two dual diodes often. It reduces commom heating of it.
And a label on the back socket "24V 8A" is fake. :) If this ouput will be used for powering of another device, you cannot have 8A. :)
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Well, the power when the tip is hot would be much lower.
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another test on youtube:
Very interesting video, thanks for sharing. One thing that confuses me is that when soldering big polygons it still consumes only 25W max: https://youtu.be/j1N16azXx_g?t=1232 :-//
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Very interesting video, thanks for sharing. One thing that confuses me is that when soldering big polygons it still consumes only 25W max: https://youtu.be/j1N16azXx_g?t=1232 :-//
Seems like tip doesn't have good thermal coupling with board and thus is not cooling down and thus station doesn't have reason to increase power. Also this is wrongly shaped and too small tip. If you want to solder such connections use large chisel/bevel tip not small knife tip like this. Tips supplied with station are mostly useless since one is conical, another it bend conical and third is small blade. Not one is good for general soldering or for high thermal mass boards like this. Just buy better shaped and bigger tip if you want to solder large thermal mass connections. Test with water shows you that station doesn't have problem to supply even way too much power. The bottleneck is thermal coupling between tip and board. If you cool tip down then station will compensate. If tip is hot then station doesn't have anything to do only to maintain temperature with small amount of power.
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Does this mean c245 doesn't have advantages over t12 when using a knife cartridge?
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Does this mean c245 doesn't have advantages over t12 when using a knife cartridge?
Depends on implementation of particular tip. AFAIK even smaller JBC cartridges usually are better. There are high performance JBC cartridges with the same working surface size as regular ones for a reason. Say a regular 2.2mm C245907 (https://www.jbctools.com/c245907-cartridge-chisel-22-x-1-product-339.html) and a high performance C245407 (https://www.jbctools.com/c245407-cartridge-chisel-22-x-1-ht-product-341.html). Also there are long life C245E with thicker iron plating at expense of worse performance due to reduced area of copper inside them. What matters is not only tip size as such but how good is thermal coupling between the heater/temperature sensor and work surface. By making that distance shorter and making it less slim, performance gets improved. But it may become harder to get into some densely populated areas. So if you see a long narrow tip, it will suck.
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Does this mean c245 doesn't have advantages over t12 when using a knife cartridge?
This depends on what you solder. Even small pins on chip may have lot of thermal mass if connected to ground plane. In such situation C245 should have room to be better.
I don't think so.
C245 has bigger peak power than T12 and thus will be better by brute force alone. With higher peak power C245 will be superior in any codition even with smaller tip since it recovers and reacts faster since heater can deliver more heat in same time. No matter the power demand or condition. Perhaps C245 has better coupling between tip and thermocouple also? That would also improve response. But that doesn't matter when the power is different. But this applies only if enough heat is removed from tip.
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C245 has bigger peak power than T12 and thus will be better by brute force alone. With higher peak power C245 will be superior in any codition since it recovers and reacts faster since heater can deliver more heat in same time. No matter the power demand or condition. Perhaps C245 has better coupling between tip and thermocouple also? That would also improve response. But that doesn't matter when the power is different.
You are wrong in this regard. It does matter a lot. Maximum power of the heater does not matter much if only a fraction of it can be delivered to the tip due to thermal resistance. Especially considering that temperature sensor is much closer to the heater rather than to the tip. In smaller tips heater power only matters for fast heat up after power off or standby (unless power is too small). But when actually soldering only a fraction of is will be delivered even if you place the tip on an ideal heatsink. And soldering station will happily report set temperature even when it's far from that on the tip, as it actually is where the sensor is located.
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C245 has bigger peak power than T12 and thus will be better by brute force alone. With higher peak power C245 will be superior in any codition since it recovers and reacts faster since heater can deliver more heat in same time. No matter the power demand or condition. Perhaps C245 has better coupling between tip and thermocouple also? That would also improve response. But that doesn't matter when the power is different.
You are wrong in this regard. It does matter a lot. Maximum power of the heater does not matter much if only a fraction of it can be delivered to the tip due to thermal resistance. Especially considering temperature sensor is much closer to the heater rather than the tip.
In absolute sense yes, you are right.
But we can assume reasonable resistances. No tip will be designed such heater has terrible resistance to tip. All integrated cartriges will be in same region. +10% better transfer doesn't matter if you deliver +50% power instead. Do you believe that Hakko developed so much better heat transfer than JBC so even with +100% power JBC can't compare?
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But we can assume reasonable resistances. No tip will be designed such heater has terrible resistance to tip. All integrated cartriges will be in same region. +10% better transfer doesn't matter if you deliver +50% power instead. Do you believe that Hakko developed so much better heat transfer than JBC so even with +100% power JBC can't compare?
You won't deliver more heat. Since heating power will be limited by temperature sensor. Having 50W or 200W heater does not matter when delivering 20W, already causes temperature on the temperature sensor to reach set temperature. Heater power does not matter when the bottleneck is somewhere else. It's way more obvious when comparing stations Like Ersa I-CON Nano and large I-CON which use the same heater and tips. They have 2 times different peak power due to different voltage (16,5 and 24V respectively), but tests showed that it makes any difference in performance only when using larger tips.
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But we can assume reasonable resistances. No tip will be designed such heater has terrible resistance to tip. All integrated cartriges will be in same region. +10% better transfer doesn't matter if you deliver +50% power instead. Do you believe that Hakko developed so much better heat transfer than JBC so even with +100% power JBC can't compare?
You won't deliver more heat. Since heating power will be limited by temperature sensor. Having 50W or 200W heater does not matter when delivering 20W, already causes temperature on the temperature sensor to reach set temperature. Heater power does not matter when the bottleneck is somewhere else. It's way more obvious when comparing stations Like Ersa I-NON Nano and large I-CON. They have 2 times different peak power, but tests showed that it makes any difference only when using larger tips.
Heater is resistor. For example 1ohm. If you need this much heat to bring tip from 280 back to 300 degrees target, then 24V into 1ohm takes less time then heating with 24V into 2ohm. If your tip has 300 target temperature more of the time you will transfer more heat. In comparison if your tip has 280 longer because your lower power heater needs more time to produce same heat then you will transfer less heat. It will be maybe small difference when you need small amount of heat sure. But the advatage is there always. No matter the condition or power requirement.
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Heater is resistor. For example 1ohm. If you need this much heat to bring tip from 280 back to 300 degrees target, then 24V into 1ohm takes less time than heating with 24V into 2ohm. If your tip has 300 target temperature more of the time you will transfer more heat. In comparison if your tip has 280 longer because your lower power heater needs more time to produce same heat then you will transfer less heat. It will be maybe small difference when you need small amount of heat sure. But the advatage is there always. No matter the condition or power requirement.
You miss the fact that station will not even try to deliver maximum power, since when touching a solder joint with a narrow tip, there will be no rapid drop of temperature on temperature sensor.
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Heater is resistor. For example 1ohm. If you need this much heat to bring tip from 280 back to 300 degrees target, then 24V into 1ohm takes less time than heating with 24V into 2ohm. If your tip has 300 target temperature more of the time you will transfer more heat. In comparison if your tip has 280 longer because your lower power heater needs more time to produce same heat then you will transfer less heat. It will be maybe small difference when you need small amount of heat sure. But the advatage is there always. No matter the condition or power requirement.
You miss the fact that station will not even try to deliver maximum power, since when touching a solder joint with a narrow tip, there will be no rapid drop of temperature on temperature sensor.
You are at point where you know temperature is down. You know you need heat. What is faster? 20W or 200W heater?
If your tips have same construction then only heater and aggresive PID controller can make difference. If you hold back your powerful heater with really slow control then yes your heater is useless. But if you use your more powerful heater wisely, you will get back temperature faster and deliver more heat.
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You are at point where you know temperature is down. You know you need heat. What is faster? 20W or 200W heater?
If your tips have same construction then only heater and aggresive PID controller can make difference. If you hold back your powerful heater with really slow control then yes your heater is useless. But if you use your more powerful heater wisely, you will get back temperature faster and deliver more heat.
Station applies maximum power only when there is a very rapid temperature drop on the sensor, because otherwise there will be a huge temperature overshoot which may damage PCB. And station doesn't even know if small or large tip is used. You may use the best PID ever, but tips have a significant thermal inertia. So you cannot just apply max power on the heater and expect there will be no temperature overshoot.
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You are at point where you know temperature is down. You know you need heat. What is faster? 20W or 200W heater?
If your tips have same construction then only heater and aggresive PID controller can make difference. If you hold back your powerful heater with really slow control then yes your heater is useless. But if you use your more powerful heater wisely, you will get back temperature faster and deliver more heat.
Station applies maximum power only when there is a very rapid temperature drop on the sensor, because otherwise there will be a huge temperature overshoot which may damage PCB. And station doesn't even know if small or large tip is used. You may use the best PID ever, but tips have a significant thermal inertia. So you cannot just apply max power on the heater and expect there will be no temperature overshoot.
Station sees temperate delta and can deliver power based on smallest tip. If the difference is too small more power will not help. Since maximum average power will be bellow what low power station can make. Thank you, now I get what do you mean.
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Seems like tip doesn't have good thermal coupling with board and thus is not cooling down and thus station doesn't have reason to increase power. Also this is wrongly shaped and too small tip. If you want to solder such connections use large chisel/bevel tip not small knife tip like this. Tips supplied with station are mostly useless since one is conical, another it bend conical and third is small blade. Not one is good for general soldering or for high thermal mass boards like this. Just buy better shaped and bigger tip if you want to solder large thermal mass connections. Test with water shows you that station doesn't have problem to supply even way too much power. The bottleneck is thermal coupling between tip and board. If you cool tip down then station will compensate. If tip is hot then station doesn't have anything to do only to maintain temperature with small amount of power.
Tip looks similar or a bit bigger than the T12-KU tip I have. Hakko station can draw 40-45W with that tip, if its properly coupled. So I'm sure the JBC could easily do better, at least 60W or so.
But yeah you are right, there is no good coupling as he didn't apply fresh solder. So you can't expect it to draw much power.
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Tip looks similar or a bit bigger than the T12-KU tip I have. Hakko station can draw 40-45W with that tip, if its properly coupled. So I'm sure the JBC could easily do better, at least 60W or so.
But yeah you are right, there is no good coupling as he didn't apply fresh solder. So you can't expect it to draw much power.
Do you mean JBC station or clone? JBC seems to have aggressive firmware with large temperature overshoot/offset. Not sure if this is intentional or if all JBC stations behave like this: https://youtu.be/xGPVhv5fZGs?t=1180. But if this is intentional then JBC at "same" temperature will perform better since higher temperature is used instead. Clone will most likely not behave like original station in this regard. And indeed T3A seems to have tigher control and not overshoot as much: https://youtu.be/26KXtHZqhMg?t=730. This is another thing to watch out for. If firmware is overshooting like this then station will seem to perform better since 20C offset is enough to make difference. Higher temperature impacts how much energy is stored in tip, higher temperature will allow faster heat transfer and also higher temperature will help regulation since station has wider range to work with and can use more power. Also if melting point of solder is X then the more temperature over X you set the more can temperature drop until it impacts your soldering (think about it like it's buffer). So setting temperature higher is big deal since it impacts soldering in many ways.
I don't think this comparison between T12 vs C245 is important anyway. T12 clones are much cheaper and they work good enough for most things. If you are not sure if C245 makes sense then you don't need it and T12 will work fine. I don't think buying C245 makes sense unless you need the extra power for high thermal mass boards/connections. Even if C245 is better on lower power, it can't beat T12 in price to performance. For now at least. If you don't care about price then sure get C245, it's better platform but not in value.
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firmware 1.19 out 8/20 for those who have this station.
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Is changelog available?
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it said it was to make 245 temps more stable (translated). that was all from 1.19
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All cheap C245 tips I tested worked much worse than $2 T12 clones.
Really, don't bother, it's a waste of money, buy genuine tips or stay with T12 if you can't afford them.
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I've been following the threads for the Aixun, the KSGER, and the Unisolder. They all seem to be great choices. At minimum, they can all use the JBC 245 handle and tips, but with different price points, levels of involvement, and concerns. The firmware for all 3 are acceptable. Aixun has 3 firmware updates (technically 2 since the second one was broken), DavidAlfa covered the KSGER, and Unisolder is well supported also. Updating the firmware has degrees of difficulty. Aixun is the easiest. Connect it to your computer (USB C I think), download the software, find the EEVblog thread on how to navigate the Chinese menu, and you're good. The KSGER needs an ST-link, and you probably have to solder some headers to the board. The Unisolder needs a mini A, and probably a generic third party hex loader. Unisolder also costs the most. And you need a casing for it. And you might need to mount a transformer inside it. And you might enjoy it. The Aixun and KSGER are generally just plug into the wall (with some concerns about safety), but there is mini version of the KSGER too that you can use with an adapter or bench PSU. At this point, I think it just comes down to individual choice/expectations.
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Looks like they've released a new version for C210/C115 tips with a much nicer stand. Wonder if this will work with C245 as well...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003156907430.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003156907430.html)
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i see it they changed the name to the t3b. dang i wonder what else they changed they did move the connector to the back and the power button to the front. the price is higher from most sellers though. this new model is only rated at 96w max from what im finding. i do much prefer the new way of connecting the iron and stand though. wonder if there will be a t3c with the a model updated the same way as this one is.
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T3B could use similar front panel/controller but power supply would be different since T3B uses half the power. I don't think T210 with higher price can compare with T245/T3A. Only if there was another version with T3B layout and power of T3A... I think T3A has it's stand and layout thanks to compatibility with T12/936. It would be nice to have T245 only version tho.
If stand can be purchased alone also retrofit with adapter would be possible for T3A. You could route stand contact from banana on back to free pin on front then you would have the same one cable to stand just connector would be in front not back and connector would be different. This may not be possible if dimensions of T210 handle are different. Maybe T210 has smaller collar diameter?
UPDATE: T210 is much much smaller handle so T245 can't fit its much bigger in every dimension. So T245 stand of this style would be needed.
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i wonder now if they will offer maybe a t3c with the new front panel and stand of the t3b but with the 245 and t12 irons. i got my t3a's for under 100$ shipped so i cant complain they work well. im hoping they dont go and update them already though lol i may have waited for the newer model if they do for the new layout.
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I don't expect manufacturer to make two competing models so quickly after each other. This would require bad planning at their side. Thus I don't expect upgraded T245 version anytime soon since T3A is new product (few months old). Anything is possible but this one is unlikely. Enjoy your T3A. Stand is only part and not that important part.
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Do you mean JBC station or clone? JBC seems to have aggressive firmware with large temperature overshoot/offset. Not sure if this is intentional or if all JBC stations behave like this: https://youtu.be/xGPVhv5fZGs?t=1180. But if this is intentional then JBC at "same" temperature will perform better since higher temperature is used instead. Clone will most likely not behave like original station in this regard. And indeed T3A seems to have tigher control and not overshoot as much: https://youtu.be/26KXtHZqhMg?t=730. This is another thing to watch out for. If firmware is overshooting like this then station will seem to perform better since 20C offset is enough to make difference. Higher temperature impacts how much energy is stored in tip, higher temperature will allow faster heat transfer and also higher temperature will help regulation since station has wider range to work with and can use more power. Also if melting point of solder is X then the more temperature over X you set the more can temperature drop until it impacts your soldering (think about it like it's buffer). So setting temperature higher is big deal since it impacts soldering in many ways.
I don't think this comparison between T12 vs C245 is important anyway. T12 clones are much cheaper and they work good enough for most things. If you are not sure if C245 makes sense then you don't need it and T12 will work fine. I don't think buying C245 makes sense unless you need the extra power for high thermal mass boards/connections. Even if C245 is better on lower power, it can't beat T12 in price to performance. For now at least. If you don't care about price then sure get C245, it's better platform but not in value.
On either a clone or genuine station.
I'm talking continuous power consumption, so regardless of the overshoot you mention. Just pointing out that a "small" knife tip like this should be easily capable of taking 50W+ if properly coupled to a high thermal mass PCB or component.
Maybe clone JBC tips are not as good, but I've yet to see evidence of why. For sure T12 clones I have had slightly higher heater coil resistance, but not huge 10% or something.
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Jbc clones have poor connection between the heater and the tip body, very badly pressed.
All of them came loose after free minutes of use, like a kid's tooth that's about to fall.
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Jbc clones have poor connection between the heater and the tip body, very badly pressed.
All of them came loose after free minutes of use, like a kid's tooth that's about to fall.
How? Heater is inside cartridge how it can came loose? Tip came loose from cartridge body?
I have few different clones of C245 cartridges and all work so far. I did use them for couple hours of soldering.
But I noticed that different C245 clones have different crimp right behind tip - one style has lines and other type is smooth, also crimp on contact side is different: see picture
So multiple clones exist? Perhaps you found some bad ones? Do you have this experience with tips from different sources or one source?
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I think the real issues are consistency, quality control, and manufacturing process. With the Chinese clones, some might work fine, others might work fine for a little while then have issues, and you could also get a completely bad one that never works correctly. I don't think there is one answer that tips from X manufacturer are fine, while tips from Y manufacturer are always bad. It's a roll of the dice. JBC does use a thinner plating on their standard tips, which shortens its lifespan, but the performance and reliability are superior.
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How? Simple, it's not a one-piece, there's the heater and there's the tip body pressed around it.
I've bought 5 JBC clone tips and all were absolute crap. The ones burned after 10 minutes of use at 360ºC, had terrible heat transfer.
The seller said they were "low temperature tips" meant for less than 300ºC. Luckly got my money back.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/stm32-oled-digital-soldering-station-for-t12-handle/?action=dlattach;attach=1125494;image)
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all the ones i have used that were "crimped" like those were terrible. i do have some smooth ones i got from china and so far they dont regulate as well as genuine ones but they have held up pretty well. they just will not calibrate as well where the real ones might be a few degrees off they are like 20-30deg off no matter what i do.
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Interesting.
Even with real JBC C245 there is a lot of variety. Some clearly have the crimp marks visible on the tip housing, some do not, some appear to be pressed in from the top into a shell.
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The smooth ones are also crimped, but with a steel cover to look good.
My last ones were also smooth, and were much worse than the ugly ones I had first.
Who cares about the little crimping marks? What you should care about is the real performance.
Maybe JBCs aren't crimped, but assembled with one part hot and the other cold, so the temperature contracts/expands the parts, creating a tolerance that allows sliding the heater in the tip.
Once they're at the same temperature, the inner part is slightly bigger, so the's a constant pressure, pushing the surfaces together and making a good bond.
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i could care less what they look like i was just stating my experience with them seems opposite of yours. for me the crimped looking ones always were worse then the particular ones i got from china that were smooth
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Do they really perform much better than T12? Because they should if they're decent.
If it's more or less the same... then it's just expensive T12!
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I think the real issues are consistency, quality control, and manufacturing process. With the Chinese clones, some might work fine, others might work fine for a little while then have issues, and you could also get a completely bad one that never works correctly. I don't think there is one answer that tips from X manufacturer are fine, while tips from Y manufacturer are always bad. It's a roll of the dice. JBC does use a thinner plating on their standard tips, which shortens its lifespan, but the performance and reliability are superior.
For sure even if one manufacturer did make good ones then you don't even know what you getting from chinese sellers so this is not my point. Different crimping marks mean different dies or machines. And in such case it's unlike that all machines or dies would have wrong setup. So one kind could have higher failure rate.
How? Simple, it's not a one-piece, there's the heater and there's the tip body pressed around it.
I've bought 5 JBC clone tips and all were absolute crap. The ones burned after 10 minutes of use at 360ºC, had terrible heat transfer.
The seller said they were "low temperature tips" meant for less than 300ºC. Luckly got my money back.
Low temperature tips? They need to be joking. Seems like they did know the tips were garbage. Thank you for clarification.
I did grill mine at 450ºC over 30 minutes straight then rapidly cooled in water. This should make different parts expand and shrink in different rates. And I wasn't able to pull or twist tip with fingers. Tip was blue and oxidized as hell but did take solder after cleaning. I did measure temperature of tip from cold power up and temperature of tip was always higher than display. So I could not detect drop. In result I can't replicate your experience. This tip seems different and looks different too (round without flats but with lines, in your picture tip has flats).
I have with 1) round with lines and 2) smooth and both have temperature offset (10-20ºC more than display shows) but are usable so far. It would be useful to know if one type has higher failure rate than others. Yes all will have some failure rate. But it's unlikely that different dies/press machines would have same error. It may not matter but for sure it will not hurt to gather experience from different people and see real data.
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My money ain't going into chinese jbc crap ever again.
They cost 1/3rd, but perform and last 1/1000th than the genuine ones.
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I saw a review (https://mysku.ru/blog/aliexpress/85025.html) with comparsion of several C245 tips (clones). So, a it works not so good as original JBC, but not 1/1000. Some is very bad. The author did a teardown and found a reason. On bad tips a big air gap between thermocouple and metall, and reaction for temperature change is very bad. But he found and good clones.
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Maybe. But look at me.
Bought 5 already and all were crap.
I would have bought 2 original tips with that money.
Lucky I got some of my money back, but not all.
For me it just doesn't worth the risk.
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Yes, you are right. But I'm sure that clone tips can be very different. I have several T12 from diferent stores. They are very different too. :) One didn't have a proper connection inside and was very unstable, for example.
Do you know the manufacturer of your clone tips?
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No idea. You know the sticker on the bag doesn't mean anything, they'll get the tips from the cheapest source they can.
If any brand becomes appreciated enough, then the others will clone the clone and same *** again.
It's ok with $2 T12 tips, but not with $10 jbc clones :rant:
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Identifying manufacturer is futile. Tips are clean, no markings and markings can be copied. As DavidAlfa says - seller may switch randomly between sources to sell the cheapest one. So seller can't be relied upon. There is no way to identify source or quality except by tip itself and testing. Let's hope bad tips are rare and they will learn how to make better tips over time. C245 clones are recent. T12 clones have long history. Thus time may improve C245 quality since more people will want them because now cheaper stations exist and market will be bigger for cheap clones.
Buying 5 bad tips is terrible but imagine buying multiple JBC original. It will cost more than whole station. It get's expensive fast with 3x multiplier. One bigger JBC tip can cost 1/3 of T3A station...
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I can get original C245 tips for 25-30€ depending on the profile.
I know these tip will last for years without burning or rusting.
Clones are around 9€, their quality is like a lottery ticket, with high chances of being crap, and for sure they won't last that long.
I see a lot of positive feedback, clearly they're people that have never worked with genuine jbc stuff.
And the dumb "Didn't tested yet, but look nice - 5 stars"
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I would be okay if clone didn't last as "long". I don't solder every day, it's hobby. Thus I don't need long life tip and something worse would work fine if it has performance. I don't expect to get same for less - shorter life is guaranteed.
Yeah ali reviews. Most reviews are made after thing arrives and before use so it's always about looks not functionality. I once did get product that couldn't work because of design flaw yet reviews plenty and good. Nothing unusual.
I don't think many people who have JBC would buy clone anyway. So most people will come from T12 or from old technology. Don't expect many people would have experience with both. So yea we can think that clone is good since we don't have reference. And for sure sometimes cheap doesn't work like cheap power supplies (death traps emitting lot of interference with built in ignition). Sometimes cheap is too cheap beyond reason. But for 1/3 or even less they need to make good clones. I don't see reason why they couldn't.
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I saw a review (https://mysku.ru/blog/aliexpress/85025.html) with comparsion of several C245 tips (clones). So, a it works not so good as original JBC, but not 1/1000. Some is very bad. The author did a teardown and found a reason. On bad tips a big air gap between thermocouple and metall, and reaction for temperature change is very bad. But he found and good clones.
wow good writeup, so one of the defective tips they had the thermocouple was not pressed far enough up, resulting in an air gap. Testing each tip you receive would take some amount of effort, unless you have a known good tip to compare to, and getting a refund is not guaranteed.
I disagree that there is no chance of quality consistency. I've seen some sellers with branded/marked tips, so some MAY be built to their spec and be higher grade. The problem is finding a reliable brand.
eg the T12 "high grade (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32900382386.html)" tips seem to be better.
- branded "bi" (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001652785221.html) - no marking on the tip
- branded "i2c" (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003123349581.html) - laser etched
- jabe branded (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001116049840.html) - no marking on the tip
- xsoldering branded (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001359271809.html) - printed on tip?
- mechanic branded (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002767557441.html) - printed on tip?
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Seems like my choice for a using a Ksger T12 with genuine Hakko tips was a good choice. If I need more power, fake JBC tips don't seem like a likely solution. So buying one of these clone JBC system would have to factor in buying genuine JBC tips.
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the actual ksger branded t12's are usually pretty decent. i personally dont see THAT much of a difference between hakko and the better aftermarkets. i do have a few (2-3) 245 clones that actually have held up really well and work fine just the temps are off even after calibration. but they have been fine without falling apart like some of the super crap ones have within 10 minutes of using them. one of the ones that came with the handksit 245 (imo not a great system at all there) lasted less then 5 minutes lol before the whole tip fell off.
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Since the most of the real Hakko tips shipped from Hakko USA for free are a little more than $10 I felt the premium over clones was worth it to get a know quality and the exact type of tips I wanted. Most of the tip choices sold from China are styles I don't that I care to use.
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Anybody uses the clone C245 tip like T12 BC2 "horseshoe"? Most of clones on Ali are only "knife", "straight" and "curved". But I saw dand another types. Without of any feedbacks unfortunately.
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I have very good experience with T12 tips (from ksger). I did use and abuse them for 3 years and didn't have any issues. It just works and it was huge upgrade over old station. Hakko is very hard to find for me and when I find reseller it costs $30 per tip + shipping. <$5 working clone including shipping is really good.
I'm using currently chisel/screwdriver style from https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001209387174.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001209387174.html) (they have bc-like too), some reviews say tip failed but mine works okay so far just temperature is bit off.
Another seller is this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773877551.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773877551.html) (also have some bc-like) I ordered some beefy tips here but waiting for them to arrive. Again some reviews says tip failed.
I didn't find seller where are reviews and nobody complains about failure. Looks like you need to roll dice. Make tip scream when it arrives so you can report failure quickly if weak is found then you likely win dispute.
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I had a problem with JL02 T12 tip from KSGER, cannot calibrate it. After pressing of wires inside the calibration was successful.
Thanks for second link, I didn't see it before. Unfortunately no one photo in feedbacks, how it looks, some of tips are horrible and on the photos. :)
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I did have minor issue with T12 handle where contacts were weak but is enough to bend them back and then it worked fine again.
Some photo are on other C245 tips from this seller https://www.aliexpress.com/store/4991139/search?origin=n&SortType=bestmatch_sort&SearchText=c245 (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/4991139/search?origin=n&SortType=bestmatch_sort&SearchText=c245)
No sure what you looking for. They look normal and have smooth covering on tip. What you mean by horrible? They look all the same to me.
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I don't expect manufacturer to make two competing models so quickly after each other. This would require bad planning at their side. Thus I don't expect upgraded T245 version anytime soon since T3A is new product (few months old). Anything is possible but this one is unlikely. Enjoy your T3A. Stand is only part and not that important part.
I asked one of the sellers if I could get the T3B stand separately, and they're offering it now. Unfortunately, it won't work with the station directly since it's using the original JBC-style 6-pin connector, but I don't think it would be too hard to mod in a connection to the plug on the back of the Aixun considering that it's just a matter of completing the circuit to make the tip sleep.
In your opinions, do you think that this would be a good upgrade station from the KSGER and FX-888D? I've been having a lot of issues with the 6 and 8-layer boards that I use for work (they use high-temp solder from the board house, and I'm looking at a via'd 8-layer ground-plane board). I'm thinking that maybe the JBC-style would work much better at 130W, but I'm not sure if this or the Thermaltronic TMT-2000S would be better or if there's a better option all-together in that under-$200 range. Thanks!
Has anyone probed the T12 iron handle yet to see what mod would be needed to get the temperature readout to work with the KSGER handle? I'd like to continue using the knock-off tips that I have while I save up for the JBC tips. Also, does this station have individual tip calibrations, or is it just one overall calibration like the original stands?
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i have the t12 handle from the t3a and the 245 one. i have not tried it on the ksger yet though. i will say its a nice handle, a bit better made imo then the ksger ones, but the grip to tip length is a bit longer then the black aluminum ksger i normally use. and yes the new stand will work but you have to modify the handle plug with the jbc style and make a cable to go from the station to the stand i dont recc opening the station if you dont need to because the front is on there with a ton of tape. i have a stand coming and will do the t3a style on one end and the other end with the jbc style. and imo for t12 tips both systems work about the same if im honest. the display is nicer then the ksger. for 245 tips i do fine the t3a is a bit better. i have not looked at the stand to see if its worth changing the connectors out but i would prob prefer them to be the normal jbc ones anyway.
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Would you be able to open up the T12 handle and take some pictures of the insides to see how different it is from the KSGER?
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I've been having a lot of issues with the 6 and 8-layer boards that I use for work (they use high-temp solder from the board house, and I'm looking at a via'd 8-layer ground-plane board).
Do you use a bottom heater?
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I asked one of the sellers if I could get the T3B stand separately, and they're offering it now. Unfortunately, it won't work with the station directly since it's using the original JBC-style 6-pin connector, but I don't think it would be too hard to mod in a connection to the plug on the back of the Aixun considering that it's just a matter of completing the circuit to make the tip sleep.
[/quote]
Please, URL?
Thanks, Frans
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.24f466049cGDFy&algo_pvid=6801e23d-7db9-4c02-bc24-cc9f077b451d&algo_exp_id=6801e23d-7db9-4c02-bc24-cc9f077b451d-36 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.24f466049cGDFy&algo_pvid=6801e23d-7db9-4c02-bc24-cc9f077b451d&algo_exp_id=6801e23d-7db9-4c02-bc24-cc9f077b451d-36)
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I've been having a lot of issues with the 6 and 8-layer boards that I use for work (they use high-temp solder from the board house, and I'm looking at a via'd 8-layer ground-plane board).
Do you use a bottom heater?
I haven't been using a bottom heater, but I do remember they have them at work. Do you think it's just a matter of adding a preheating plate? It's a mixture of power electronics and some small micro-soldering work. Would pre-heating the board ruin some smaller components, and would it also help with those small parts? Something like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788761296.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.51887d1fGtuVK7&algo_pvid=9a9ede46-348a-4ae5-b026-21baf7994f60&algo_exp_id=9a9ede46-348a-4ae5-b026-21baf7994f60-2 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788761296.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.51887d1fGtuVK7&algo_pvid=9a9ede46-348a-4ae5-b026-21baf7994f60&algo_exp_id=9a9ede46-348a-4ae5-b026-21baf7994f60-2)
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Well, I believe preheater helps a lot, esp. for lead-free rework. If component damage is a concern (e.g., plastic parts, electrolytes, etc) , then limit preheater temperature to 90-100C. I also use bottom heater to reflow, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I348ZZ3imLM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I348ZZ3imLM) .
There are tiny pre-heaters like this (MHP30): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001800667409.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001800667409.html) . Dave suggested it can be used for localized heating to aid soldering, but I'm concerned about pcb warping due to temperature gradient. So, I'd still suggest buying a bigger hotplate.
The downside is that to heat the board it needs to be removed from the device.
If you need an advice which heater to buy, which temperature to dial and how to use, I cannot give you that (I just dial ~100C as it feels a safe temperature). But I'm sure there are many people who can share experience.
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Looks like there are T210, T115 and a better stand options
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003172512833.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.21.5c764c322iTjQm&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.33416.213724.0&scm_id=1007.33416.213724.0&scm-url=1007.33416.213724.0&pvid=5723f475-3b0d-4373-91db-84c546706eb1&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.33416.213724.0,pvid:5723f475-3b0d-4373-91db-84c546706eb1,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2372_668%23888%233325%235_23416%230%23213724%230_23416%236336%2330479%231_23416%234721%2321967%23132_23416%234722%2321972%2310_668%232846%238110%231995_668%235811%2327189%2388_668%236421%2330830%23830_668%232717%237559%2335_668%231000022185%231000066058%230_668%236808%2332771%23276_668%233422%2315392%23472_4452%230%23226710%230_4452%233474%2316498%23540_4452%234862%2324463%23986_4452%233098%239599%23466_4452%235108%2323442%23566_4452%233564%2316062%23974&&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sceneId%22:%2223416%22%7D (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003172512833.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.21.5c764c322iTjQm&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.33416.213724.0&scm_id=1007.33416.213724.0&scm-url=1007.33416.213724.0&pvid=5723f475-3b0d-4373-91db-84c546706eb1&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.33416.213724.0,pvid:5723f475-3b0d-4373-91db-84c546706eb1,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2372_668%23888%233325%235_23416%230%23213724%230_23416%236336%2330479%231_23416%234721%2321967%23132_23416%234722%2321972%2310_668%232846%238110%231995_668%235811%2327189%2388_668%236421%2330830%23830_668%232717%237559%2335_668%231000022185%231000066058%230_668%236808%2332771%23276_668%233422%2315392%23472_4452%230%23226710%230_4452%233474%2316498%23540_4452%234862%2324463%23986_4452%233098%239599%23466_4452%235108%2323442%23566_4452%233564%2316062%23974&&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sceneId%22:%2223416%22%7D)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003172512833.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.37.151773cfAww07i (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003172512833.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.37.151773cfAww07i)
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I haven't been using a bottom heater, but I do remember they have them at work. Do you think it's just a matter of adding a preheating plate? It's a mixture of power electronics and some small micro-soldering work. Would pre-heating the board ruin some smaller components, and would it also help with those small parts? Something like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788761296.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788761296.html)
Preheating to 100-150C will not damage the components. If you have some cheap low temp plastic connectors (unlikely) those can be shielded. Will help massively with a 8 layer board.
Why are you screwing around with $100 soldering stations on 8 layer boards? If its for your job, get them to buy you proper equipment.
If its for hobby, the Yihua/Gordak 853 are good, or the one you linked is also good too, its a larger size and higher power.
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BTW, I (de-)soldered big components with aid of hotair gun. Sometimes just preheating the board with hotair made difference when soldering bulky parts to large copper polygons.
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If you look at SteveyG's Unisolder video, at 24:15 he does his 2p test with the Unisolder (130w), JBC DDE (150w), and the Aixun (200w). The Aixun beats both of them. As it should, it's 200w. The DDE is 6x the cost. That pretty much says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGWQ4OvsW0Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGWQ4OvsW0Q)
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i would have liked to see a aixun unit that would also do 210 tips along with the 245 and t12 instead of a separate unit. that would have been fantastic. im not home at the moment to take the t12 handle apart i will take a look when i get home later this week
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Looks like there are T210, T115 and a better stand options
I have this B variant on order. It’s half the power but a nicer package overall. The T210 is, afaik, a 20W hand piece so not sure where the 96W will go!
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the b version should do both nase and t210 isnt it? seems that way...
but do you really need all 3? why not skip the t210. wouldnt the t245 and the nase cover most of it?
the typical reason you cannot have t245 with either of the smaller ones is they change the terminals betwern thermocouple and heater. but the smaller ones should be same as each other right?
it should be:
t245 + t470
t210 + nase (or 115 whatever is called)
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Looks like there are T210, T115 and a better stand options
I have this B variant on order. It’s half the power but a nicer package overall. The T210 is, afaik, a 20W hand piece so not sure where the 96W will go!
thats why i held off until i saw some tests of it. keep us posted when you get to test it out. i may order one. 245 are my main tips but the 210 and 115 are nice for some finer work at times.
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The 245 is 24v, the 210 is 12v. For both to be in one of these units seems unrealistic/impossible. If it could be done, the T3A would probably be the better platform to do it. It's easier to scale the 24v down to 12v than 12v up to 24v. Second, there would be firmware issues. I assume the firmwares aren't open source. Third, while they physically look similar, they seem to be different beasts. The T3B is advertised as having over voltage, over current, power, short circuit, and temperature protections (probably a mix of hardware and software). The T3A doesn't seem to have any of that. [attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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When i saw that and asked about the protections built in they told me they are almost the same except for the tip and psu. and that they fall under where they say "automatic protection" and "super static protection" i wonder if its really the same thing though. it also says "low voltage protection" on many of the t3a adds. its probably a different way of advertising the same things imo i have not tried to purposely cause an issue though to see what happens.
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Hmmm.... Back on page 2, SteveyG said that there was no current limiting. Guess we'll see once we get complete tear downs of both units.
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interesting i forgot about that. we will have to see once someone had the new one if its just advertising then or if it actually does have that protection in place. maybe the company doesnt know what is really going on then lol. ill respond to the email and ask them once again and see what they say ill tell them what steveyg found.
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Hello friends, I'm new around here, how is everyone? I recently bought a T3A they think they can help me get stuck on the home screen
(https://i.imgur.com/s36jxMc.png)
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do you have a tip installed in the handle? it will not go past this until you have a tip in the handle.
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The I2C version of JBC Compact Line on Ali can do All of three. (they say so).....
Their are at least 2 youtube vid showing that. the guy in the vid changes t245, t210 and t115 simultaneously and they heats up without any problem. There are some good reviews on ali about it too.
Although the I2C version is completely different from the Aixun and is more towards the origional JBC and is expensive at least at double price...
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it has an H bridge to do the necessary switching
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I saw the I2C as well, and it has credible reviews on Ali. It uses a nice toroidal transformer, and seems well made. I can't say if there are any long term issues. I don't have one, and there aren't any reviews on the forum. Not sure if there is any factory support for firmware, or if that's even necessary. But if you need all 3 in one unit, and don't want to spend JBC money, this seems like the top contender. You can get them for 180$/150euro on Ali if you look around. Really, it seems like there are only a handful of stations to consider if you're looking to upgrade your soldering iron without breaking the bank. KSGER/Quicko, Aixun, I2C, and Unisolder (in order of cost). Jabe, Sugon, and Hakko deserve mentions too, but the I2C appears superior to the Jabe and Sugon, and Hakko just needs to modernize their stuff. Of course there is the TS80/100 too, but they don't seem to be intended for prolonged use.
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I personally don't trust aliexpress reviews. A lot of crap I bought from there had excellent reviews. I'd rather sponsor SteveyG to do the review. Not just a review, but a comparison with other stations. Coin test will do it.
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i had one of those i2c units they were meh. i mean it was okay but overall i did not like it that much
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"Meh" kind of says that it didn't stand out in either a good or bad way. What didn't you like about it? For the price, it's expected that certain concessions have to be made. But if you're on a budget, and needed a station that could run multiple handles, could it do the job?
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i guess it prob could. there were times where the screen locked up and i had to reboot it. the controls are poor imo. and sometimes it would nto recognize a tip inserted and i had to re insert it or turn it off and turn it on again. the seller sent me a new handle which did not make a difference. when it worked fine performance was not to bad. ill say i find the aixun t3a to perform better but it cant do 210. it just wasnt for me overall.
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I haven't been using a bottom heater, but I do remember they have them at work. Do you think it's just a matter of adding a preheating plate? It's a mixture of power electronics and some small micro-soldering work. Would pre-heating the board ruin some smaller components, and would it also help with those small parts? Something like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788761296.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788761296.html)
Preheating to 100-150C will not damage the components. If you have some cheap low temp plastic connectors (unlikely) those can be shielded. Will help massively with a 8 layer board.
Why are you screwing around with $100 soldering stations on 8 layer boards? If its for your job, get them to buy you proper equipment.
If its for hobby, the Yihua/Gordak 853 are good, or the one you linked is also good too, its a larger size and higher power.
To be honest, it’s not technically a work-from-home job, but my work has been nice with the long commute that I have in letting me work from home. If I can stay home a couple extra times, this equipment will pay for itself in gas money. I haven’t been asking them to fund my home lab because I don’t want to give them too much of a reason to stop supporting my request to work from home.
I ordered the aixun t3a with the t12 stand and a separate t245 handle with the separate nicer stand so that it will support both systems. The AliExpress seller is telling me that I’m the first person to order the t245 stand, so there might be a slight difference between the t210 and t245 stands, but I’ll let you know if it’s directly compatible when it comes in.
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if they can just sell it without a stand, or make a listing with only the new t245 stand. then i would suggest buy that + the t3b with the smaller 115 (NASE / nano) handle. and skip over the t210 for being there in the middle in-between and as such too similar to either of these ^^ others
that way you have 2 dedicated stations. one for general purpose + one for the micro soldering finer work
and if you still need to get the t210 for any reason... you can still buy just the t210 handle only later on. as an extra accessory
i think this makes sense. and although buying 2 stations is more expensive than the i2c, you are getting a better product(s), those aixun ones are going to perform better
but the 1 thing you still won't have are the micro tweezers... which then calls into question this strategy. because in theory a single base station with dual outputs. well that could be capable of running tweezers too. and ideally you don't want to shell out in the end for a 3 base units. when the tweezers handle itself is also expensive... then in total that really adds up. food for thought there
so then i would suggest to appeal to aixun specifically... to make a new product that is dual output unit in future. and can support tweezers in addition to 2 seperate handles. since these t3a and t3b ones seem better than the competition now. it makes the most sense that way. rather than expect other chinese brands or models to actually be any better than these aixun. which would seem is not happening
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im sure they will prob sell it by itself soon they sell the t3a by itself. the discount though usually is not enough to not just buy it with the stand and handle imo. i got my 245 ones for 105$ each shipped. by itself it was 9x$ so less then like 10$ for me i may as well have the extra stand and handle. depends who you are buying it from and for how much. the t3b is a good amount more money though
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I noticed that some of these units have a 120w power supply now. I assume they did this because the 245 tips aren't rated for 200w, and it probably decreases the lifespan. At start up, it looks like all 200w is dumped into the tip. An 80w difference is a significant performance drop, but overall probably for the better. Although it does make the differences between it and the KSGER merely cosmetic now. I've been holding off getting one of these because I'm always hesitant to get the first model of anything. There are usually bugs to work out. Although the Aixun does seems to get significant firmware support (something a lot of similar units are lacking). It is obvious that they are still changing things though. This is probably headed towards the 3A model looking like the 3B model. Not sure how long that will take though.
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oh i really hope they are not cheaping out on components, bait and switch style. that would be a very disappointing situation
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where are you seeing these with 120w power supplies other then in the reviews at aliexpress? is there another thread somewhere where people are taking them apart and talking about them? i dont always trust reviews in aliexpress honestly
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Actually, it is the same photos Alex posted on page 4 from Ali. And yes, generally I am hesitant to believe Ali reviews too. It's all "Greatest Thing Ever" propaganda. But it's the negatives written in correct English I tend to believe. It's absolutely not in Ali's best interest to post negative reviews that cast doubt on their products. Either way though, there are still a lot of questions with no answers. Could it still be a 200w power supply built on a 120w silk screened board? Yes. We still don't have any conformation on over current and power protections. AFAIK, there is still only one mosfet preventing the tip from going nuclear. Is it possible there is over current protection in a non-accessible part part of the firmware? Yes. Are all the power supplies identical? Who knows. Ideally we can get conformation from actual owners. Which is probably going to be a little while longer.
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Correct me if i am wrong but i thought that handle identification would have been done by detecting some kind of resistor change when tip changes and in software, and the H bridge would then be controlled to put out the required voltage i.e either 24v or 12v etc...
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Toroidal transformer is another thing i like abt these I2C station. There is less electrical noice when using main's Transformer as well as very little chance of something going bad on power side. Also they Provide necessery Isolation from the main's too..
On the other hand, SMPS emits huge noice and i dont trust them after the t12/ksger power supply safety issue's. And they are still making and sending them to coustmer with the same power supply. Who knows, may be in future, there is something like taht discovered in Aixun too??
IMO, Using transformer is much more safer then SMPS in these type of chinese Product.
Sugon, Xsoldering Pro, Jabe all looks to me inferior to the i2c version in terms of build quality and handle competability.
I think the safe approach would be to get the I2C station only without fake/clone tip, and get the genuine JBC tips. As they say the magic is in the tips. In terms of driving these tips, both JBC and I2c would be doing the same thing...
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The construction of the I2C seems fine. But there are firmware issues and it seems like there is zero support from the manufacturer. They seem to be relatively minor. Rebooting the the system or pulling the tip out and putting it back in seems to fix them. The Xsoldering Pro has the same issues, and a worse power supply. Which is a shame because the graphic interface looks nice. But it's unreliable. JBC makes a wide range of tips for the 245 handle, and with a steady enough hand or an arm support, there probably isn't anything you couldn't do with it.
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yup the i2c otherwise was a good station. i tested 2 of them both had similar issues. the firmware was really the main issue. i agree having a toroidal is much better overall. but it got annoying with the i2c when i had to keep stopping. sometimes it was fine for a while then it would start up again and be a royal pain in the ass. both i had (they swapped the first one by sending out a replacement) had the same issues. if it had a better controller / firmware it would be a pretty killer setup for the money
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Whats wrong with the Ali reviews??
I personally order 95% items from Ali(As Amezon is too expensive in my country vs Ali), and the people reviews is the 1st thing i would be looking at ali. Hack i dont even look at the store description of the item :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD and head straight to the feedback/reviews. I think if You know what u need and research it throughly there will be very less chance of something going bad.....
I dont know if posting someone's comment from Ali abt the I2c soldering station here would be approperiate or not but Here is Someone the from Aussie land And i Quote
" This I2C station is *so much* better quality than Sugon T26 or Jabe UD1200. Like a JBC station, it can use different series handles. Cool and quiet 100VA toroidal, idle power consumption <3W. Precision TC amp, Hall Effect current sensor, ESD protection on all inputs. All silicone wire, even inside the station. Even more powerful than JBC station. Software quite complete. However it isn't perfect. At 230V and above it drives C245 far beyond 130W, risks heating element burnout. At 230V+10% it will drive 180W. Unlike JBC, there is no earth current sensor to detect if tip touches powered parts. Just a few mA DC can fool TC sensor and cause temperature surge burnout. The supplied I2C tips have faulty manufacturing. Extremely high thermal resistance from heater to solder. Jabe tips work fine. The plastic isn't melt resistant."
And another one from Poland
"It is not the first cloned JBC station I've tried, but it's the best so far. It's made with quality components with "premium" feel. I love it. It supports multiple tools. tried C245, C210, C115. C245 and 115 works flawlessly out of the box. C210 had temp too low. I guess that's because CD-2E stations are not compatible with 115 and it's handled as 210. Not a problem if you're not planning to interchange 210 and 115, because it's possible to recalibrate controller. There is a toroidal transformer inside with separate winding for 12 and 24V, so there is no SMPS noise nor wandering AC voltage on DC output. Tip is properly earthed. Stand sleep function works well. It also detects contact with tip changer and turns heating off. The only reason to complain so far is that there is metal shielding inside tip changer but only on the bottom, not on the walls. And it's angled. So when disconnected hot tip falls on it, it slides and starts to melt plastic case. Easily fixable though."
Seems like they are pretty heppy with it....
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May be a bad tip. As the one they are sending with it looks pretty bad or bad handle who knows?? :-//:-//
As i said the safer bait would be to get the real JBC tips...
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if you are responding to me all my tips are genuine jbc i use. so i doubt it was the tips
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lets wait and see more real teardowns of the aixun psu before completely writing it off shall we? the because rest of the station seems good so far
conflating them with ksger without any evidence merely because it uses an smps too is just :palm:
your $2000 apple computer also uses an smps.so does a million other things made outside china. it does not automatically mean they are like the ksger psu
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Well... If you have one, you could verify the power supply. And I'm positive there's more than one other person in this thread that could do the same. All we really need is one instance of a 200w power supply built on a 120w silk screened board, or a 120w supply built on a 120w marked board. Just one casts doubt. Simple enough.
Second, the KSGER/Quicko is not a bad unit. However there are more variations between units. Especially now that some units don't have an STM32. David has given it plenty of firmware support, and seems to prefer the Quicko. Better hardware. The power supply seems to be the main issue, but there is also the mini version that you could run off of a bench supply. Problem solved. Aixun could do the same (even in the current units if USB C power got straightened out).
Third- COSMETICS. Have any of you played an online game where they charge you stupid prices for skins? Skins don't do anything functionally, they just look better. I think we are all sucked in by the Aixun's shiny casing and nice display, but at the end of the day, it's the 200w performance everyone wants. If the roles were reversed, where the Aixun was in the KSGER casing and monochromatic display (but still 200w), and the KSGER was in the shiny aluminum casing and TFT display, everyone would still want the ugly KSGER. The 245 system is what most of us are really after. The more watts the better.
Every singe unit we've been talking about/looking at comes down to 5 things- handle, controller, power, firmware, and reliability. Appearance should not have anything to do with it, yet it does.
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i had thought SteveyG back on page 1 of this thread tested it and said he got 200 watts with his unit? i will not be back to try and take mine apart for at least 10-14 days i know a few people have taken them apart already maybe they can verify for us.
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I have T3A T245 with "120W" marking on PCB (BTW: this marking is painted over with white paint, looks like they want to hide it :D). Unit draws 180W+ peaks from wall when soldering. Also, I can draw more than 7A from 24V barrel jack on back. After 8A voltage sharply falls bellow 20V. So you can't get 200W but you can 190W (at least for a couple of minutes). This was done with no handle connected. So is this 120W power supply? Maybe it's 120W rated supply with 160% over current limit. Nobody knows only manufacturer. But who cares? Power supply doesn't matter unless it's total garbage or not safe. Resulting soldering performance is more important than what power supply is inside.
If you don't trust this power supply then throw it away and replace it with something you trust. You will never get high quality power supply in cheap clone.
I'm using T3A T245 with cheap C245 tips, and it works great so far. Only minor issue is - C245 clone tips have large temperature offset. Display always read lower. In one case 400C on display resulted in 480C on tip! Most of the time it's not that bad - more like 300C on display 330C on tip. This offset is not constant either (seems like the higher the temperature and/or the bigger the tip the more offset you will see). You need to check with thermometer. This is tip issue not T3A issue. Just be aware.
I see improvement over KSGER T12 everywhere (at identical tip temperature) even on single layer boards. Of course the biggest difference is seen on ground planes where KSGER T12 struggles much more. T3A T245 is overall easier and more enjoyable to solder with in comparison with T12. You can set temperature higher on T12 and then the difference will not be seen on low thermal mass boards. Also, I can get large 6.6mm tip for T245 and I can't get such tip for T12. So for me T245 is great improvement even with cheap C245 tips.
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since cgf5 posted i got super curious and called the office and i had one of my employees take a quick look at the two i have in the office he said one did not have any markings he could see and the other was painted over as said above, but one was blank there. one showed around 187w when in use the other reached 192w. those are short term peaks though. also when first turned on it peaked during heat up but then went down. he doesnt think it will sustain 190w long term looking at the board but it is capable for short term as said above. now if they are simply overdriving the psu i cant tell yet till i get home and have more hands on but that might be the case which would not be the way i would prefer. my best guess is they modded a 120w psu and thats how they are claiming 200w. he also said the jack on the back of one maxxed at just under 7a while the other was good for just over before it fell off. so the consistency may not be great from unit to unit. he will put one on the scope tonight or possibly tomm he said and check it out more then.
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so if you took the biggest tip available for the t245, and were outside soldering copper pipes and plumbing fittings on a freezing winters day.... then you would want some sort of an overheating shutdown or other protection / recovery mode for the psu. to never have a situation occur that it may overheat and blow itself up. but especially in the form of over temperature protections for really hot ambient environments
it seems rather difficult situation to get into though, right? i suppose if you were on a production line doing board after board soldering large connectors for an extented period of time. then it could realistically be over stressing the PSU.
and i'm sure we would all feel a lot better and prefer for there to be sufficient protections in place. but what do you think? is it really worth the extra scrutiny and investigations / extended to doing our own burn in testing?
i think most of us would not go to those length (personally speaking). when we know that most of the time its just 1-2 of the occasional really tough solder joints. but nothing sustained for so long. but maybe some of you do have some real life extended heat sinking tasks in mind? for specific practical tasks you like to do, that are a bit outside of the regular soldering. after all it is supposed to be a pretty high performance soldering station. so that might draw some people with such things in mind
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so if you took the biggest tip available for the t245, and were outside soldering copper pipes and plumbing fittings on a freezing winters day.... then you would want some sort of an overheating shutdown or other protection / recovery mode for the psu. to never have a situation occur that it may overheat and blow itself up. but especially in the form of over temperature protections for really hot ambient environments
it seems rather difficult situation to get into though, right? i suppose if you were on a production line doing board after board soldering large connectors for an extented period of time. then it could realistically be over stressing the PSU.
Yes, exactly.
Go and try to pull even 120W from a normal tip and see if that is possible on a PCB. Unless its at start up you won't be doing this. A small tip uses <30W continuous.
See the SDG video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xGPVhv5fZGs) where a massive tip only hit 80W for a second then slowly drops down.
JBC undersizes their transformers, specifically states 150W PEAK power, not continuous, and people are worried that this thing can only put out 120W continuous?
:P
edit: yeah don't try to pull 8A continuous from that DC jack on the back either, its a ~4A rated jack at best.
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i never said it was a good idea i just said it was able to for short times.
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There is no reason to have regular 200W power supply. You would never use it to full potential. This 120W power supply with capacity for large peaks (up to 200W) is just fine. This kind of design makes sense. Soldering is all about short peaks. So nobody needs to worry about this 200W vs 120W thing. Just think of 200W as peak value not continuous. I think Aixun didn't specify what 200W means exactly so I don't think anything wrong was done here. JBC also doesn't specify anything other than "Output Peak Power".
I don't think any soldering use case can use 120W continuous let alone 200W. The only realistic way how to overload this station is to use the barrel jack on back. Don't use it, and it should be fine.
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yes indeed. all very good points made
what seems to be the greater risk here is that after some time aixun may change the internal design (of either the psu, the controller, or both). that ends up with worse components or otherwise creating new issues later on. that didnt exist before in the original units
now this might not happen and therefore should not be any undue concern. but it would really benefit everybody to remain vigilant. and keep checking the internals of new units over the months. this is an especialy important considering during these extended component shortages. hopefully it won't happen here. we just need to keep an eye on that every so often
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Meh, the shortages affect hi-tech nanometer fab process parts, not regular stuff made with older technology, like discrete parts(transistors, diodes, passives) and standard ICs (smps controllers, op-amps...).
Do you notice the hypochondriac smell? :D
Unless you make something stupid, like heating a water tank with the soldering tip, the power supply will be fine.
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Hello, could you please provide the file? The link shown is not functional.
I sadly have FW1.17 and the same menu powercycle problem.
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Here you go. Scroll down to number 10.
https://www.jcprogrammer.com/download (https://www.jcprogrammer.com/download)
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Also:
not sure if it will help but there is a firmware update to 1.18 i think you can download the software once you connect it to the computer it will automatically start the update
Important! Before you plug in a USB-C cable into the station, unplug it from mains !!!!! My laptop was very unhappy so say the least (it just shut off luckily, nothing blew). I should have known better but to expect proper isolation in that thing.
The firmware update to 1.18 did indeed fix the English setting. The software is Chinese only as far as I can see. The only way to get through it for me was to use a OCR translator on my phone.
Steps:
1. Go to https://www.jcprogrammer.com/download-center (https://www.jcprogrammer.com/download-center)
2. Download the "AiXun Platform installation package" and install it. (Windows only of course)
3. Open the AIXUN app and click on the last icon with the little rocket.
4. Click on the button right next to the "FT232" icon. That will install a driver. Reboot as requested.
5. Repeat step 3 and connect in the station with a USB-C cable. It should auto update the firmware.
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thanks, software 1.19 installed, heating more accurate? can't test but seems more reasonable looking at power graph (not full power than instant off)
software can be switched to English.
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I have 1.19 few weeks, and I can't see any noticeable change. Absolute temperature is as much off as it has ever been (with cheap tips anyway). BTW: changelog can be found on web (https://aixun-updates.github.io/) too - don't need to plug station to see.
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how is your unit with real jbc tips? the ones i have are really close to spot on with the t3a. i agree the knock off tips are meh at best
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I replaced the caps as Steve suggested in the video, and reduced the ESR with 50%.
Found a screw rattling around inside. Inductor cracked. Fuse damaged by a soldering iron. Alot of flux residue.
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Found a screw rattling around inside. Inductor cracked. Fuse damaged by a soldering iron. Alot of flux residue.
Was that AiXun T3A?
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how is your unit with real jbc tips?
T3A 300C set point and 300C on display. I did give some time to stabilize. Original C245906 (from local distributor) has around 320C idle temperature. C245-944 clone 315C. Bigger C245-741 clone 340C and huge C245-966 clone 325C.
Perhaps not all temperature inaccuracy is about tips? I measured many tips and on average all have +20C. Not one has under +15C. Even genuine JBC. Looks like the majority of this inaccuracy comes from somewhere else? Thermometer? Or more likely T3A calibration?
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Found a screw rattling around inside. Inductor cracked. Fuse damaged by a soldering iron. Alot of flux residue.
Was that AiXun T3A?
Yes, it's correct.
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Looks like we should be kind of concerned about the build quality. Just for general safety, you should probably open up the back and inspect the power supply before first use. If that screw had touched the wrong places, it would be bad. And from SteveyG's pics, it looks like the controller board is generally OK, but there's a bodge, a diode, and terminal connectors that appear to be soldered by hand. It's pretty obvious that whoever is doing the soldering has minimal experience.
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yes indeed. worth opening and checking upon arrival. also i wonder about are the specific set of precautions are taken against vibrations in shipping. for example in this case above: if they did not put thread locker on the screw. then if it gets sent via container ship. well they have these very large diesel engines, huge in fact. the slow vibrations from the engine will transmit through the ship. and such aspect not always considered so carefully at the factory
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the two t3a and one t3b here are all fine and actually half way decently soldered. one of them has the diode added to the board and the other does not. i did not take the whole panel off to see if they changed the layout or not. but nothing loose inside and no broken components, def not the best soldering ive seen but acceptable. but i agree its worth checking them to know for sure
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Hello, if the components are broken and you wouldn’t mind to test… is it possible to fire up with 48V (voltage divider should be easy to mod, but what stepdown is used to get the local supply, what mosfet is used? Maybe it would be possible to use the C470 system on 48V ;)
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Sounds like a good idea.
quote author=Ungolian link=topic=285108.msg3704863#msg3704863 date=1632339858]
Looks like we should be kind of concerned about the build quality. Just for general safety, you should probably open up the back and inspect the power supply before first use. If that screw had touched the wrong places, it would be bad. And from SteveyG's pics, it looks like the controller board is generally OK, but there's a bodge, a diode, and terminal connectors that appear to be soldered by hand. It's pretty obvious that whoever is doing the soldering has minimal experience.
[/quote]
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I'm a little curious how that screw got in there in the first place. That's a flat head countersunk screw, which seems to be only used for the front and back panels. The ones under the front panel can't go anywhere because they are covered, and the ones on the back are too big to fit through the vent. It looks like someone just dropped one in there and was too lazy to bother removing it. Which only adds to the questionable quality control. For the price, you can't really complain. Plus the majority of the people here on the forum have the skills, equipment, and desire to fix stuff like this. I can't guess what the percentage is of getting a unit with issues, but for total beginners buying their first station, or people that aren't on this forum, it's probably a good idea to post some of these concerns/issues in the feedback on AliExpress. Plus it might get Aixun to address these random problems.
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No screws were missing. Seems like someone dropped it.
I'm a little curious how that screw got in there in the first place. That's a flat head countersunk screw, which seems to be only used for the front and back panels. The ones under the front panel can't go anywhere because they are covered, and the ones on the back are too big to fit through the vent. It looks like someone just dropped one in there and was too lazy to bother removing it. Which only adds to the questionable quality control. For the price, you can't really complain. Plus the majority of the people here on the forum have the skills, equipment, and desire to fix stuff like this. I can't guess what the percentage is of getting a unit with issues, but for total beginners buying their first station, or people that aren't on this forum, it's probably a good idea to post some of these concerns/issues in the feedback on AliExpress. Plus it might get Aixun to address these random problems.
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I think im gonna bite the bullet and order one of these. I had been considering the KSGER T12 but the price on those keeps going up and this T3A seems like a much better deal. It's gonna be one heck of an upgrade over my 15+ year old Hakko 936esd.
yes indeed. worth opening and checking upon arrival. also i wonder about are the specific set of precautions are taken against vibrations in shipping. for example in this case above: if they did not put thread locker on the screw. then if it gets sent via container ship. well they have these very large diesel engines, huge in fact. the slow vibrations from the engine will transmit through the ship. and such aspect not always considered so carefully at the factory
Interesting theory but it's not the case. These ships are 1,000ft long and the amount of vibration is about as much as you'd feel from having a window air conditioner on the opposite side of a room in a house. Each 20ft long container is full of pallets that are stacked and wrapped. Its all very secure. I'd be fare more concerned with your package being tossed around by the delivery courier.
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KSGER T12 is still half the price of T3A (or even less). At least for me. Also, C245 tips are move expensive. So I don't think you can compare KSGER T12 with T3A by price/value. I like T3A and C245 a lot but KSGER T12 is still by far better value. So if you want T3A go for it for extra performance not for value.
Many people will order from China directly so no ship would be involved anyway. I think package will receive most of the beating when traveling by itself in sorting center in China and after trip in your country. When you pack many packages in envelopes together I don't think there is place to move or vibrate. Package is most fragile traveling when alone.
BTW: new 1.20 firmware released:
1.优化加热逻辑，提升焊笔回温性能;
2.增加温度智能补偿功能;
1.Optimize the heating logic, improve the reheating performance of the soldering pen;
2.Increase the temperature intelligent compensation function;
Identical changelog with T3B 1.04. (https://aixun-updates.github.io/)
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It's worth mentioning that the KSGER can also use the 245 handle. You need some slight modifications, I think it's 2 wires and a resistor, but there's so much in that thread. Plus it's more complicated to install the custom firmware than the Aixun. Cost-wise, you can get a KSGER/Quicko mini for $30, a 245 handle for another $20, and $5 for an ST Link (for installing the firmware). That's $55/47 euro, but you still need power for it. You can then use your bench supply, or a 24v wall supply if you have one. Otherwise add another $20/17 euro for a powered unit. So at most, you're looking at $75/64 euro for a KSGER/Quicko unit that can use the 245 handle and tips. But there is more work involved, and less watts than the Aixun. If you're not soldering on to multi-layer PCBs, or crusty British currency, performance is probably the same. The Aixun is the better unit overall, but does cost more, and does have some quality control issues (at least for now). No one has reported any outright failures, and only one person has reported a cracked inductor and a screw rattling around inside. So I'm not sounding any "Do Not Buy" alarms. Plus I went back and looked at the pictures of the control board SteveyG posted. I counted 13 stray blobs of solder that if any one of them broke free, could bridge the smaller pins of some of the chips. The internal soldering is just sloppy, there's no other way to say it. It's advisable to open the unit as soon as you get it, inspect it, and clean up what you can. Then you'll have a pretty good unit.
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Hello,
thank you for all the inputs regarding the Aixun T3(A). I own beside some old Weller stations, also a Pace ADS200. It is a nice unit, but compare to an JBC T470 or even an T245 it is not so powerful, when you have to solder power electronic parts. So I ordered an Aixun T3A with an T245 handle. I have not found any news, if and how it is possible to use an JBC tweezer at the T3A station. Is there a splitter or an electronic I can use between this station and an tweezer?
Thank you for your help ....
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Hi everyone, I just got my T3A in the mail today, and I thought I would share my thoughts.
My unit arrived with firmware version 1.18, and I have updated to version 1.2.
One annoyance is when you turn the encoder a bit fast, it misses pulses and doesn't adjust the temperature down or up as expected
If you turn it slowly, it works fine, but I would have thought that would have been fixed in firmware by now.
Another annoyance is it doesn't seem like the sleep settings work at all. I have tested the "sleep time setting" and "standby mode set" settings and they don't seem to do anything.
If I leave the unit powered on with the handpiece heated out of the stand, it does not shut off or go to sleep after the selected time, or anything like I thought it would.
Maybe i'm missing something and those settings do something different.
One last thing is that the encoder knob is not fitted well in the case and it rubs against the front panel when you turn it. Not a big deal but a bit annoying.
Overall I am happy with the station, although since I have a genuine JBC 245 handpiece lying around, I want to make an adaptor to convert the plug on on the station to the JBC handpiece connector.
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You have three preset temperatures with button. So you don't need to use encoder after initial setup. It's also faster to push button few times than adjusting with encoder. I have this glitch with encoder too, but I don't use it, so I don't care.
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Sleep sets temperature to 0 (disables heating) and timer starts when dormancy starts.
Standby turns of screen and timer starts when sleep starts.
You put hand piece into stand -> dormancy time -> heating reduced to dormancy temperature -> sleep time -> heating disabled -> standby time -> screen turns off.
If you don't have dormancy temperature then heating is disabled as you put hand piece into stand/enter dormancy and only standby has any effect. So sleep doesn't change anything in such case.
I have the latest firmware and dormancy, sleep and standby is working as described.
So dormancy/sleep/standby can only work if you put hand piece into stand. Otherwise, station thinks you are actually soldering whole time. Turning your station off when you are soldering would be bad. Also, there is no mechanism to wake station back up. The only way would be pushing button and that's not very practical. This is different from KSGER for example where you have tilt switch in handle, so station knows when you are moving with hand to keep heating. T245 relies only on contact with stand so hand piece will heat forever unless put in stand. Tilt switch is not perfect thought. I did have many instances where I did not move enough and KSGER did go sleep when I was soldering. So JBC style is better - it will never turn on you when you are soldering but you need to use stand with contact.
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You put hand piece into stand -> dormancy time -> heating reduced to dormancy temperature -> sleep time -> heating disabled -> standby time -> screen turns off.
If you don't have dormancy temperature then heating is disabled as you put hand piece into stand/enter dormancy and only standby has any effect. So sleep doesn't change anything in such case.
Many thanks for the explanation, that makes sense now.
I thought the sleep or standby setting was to disable the heater when the handpiece had been taken out of the stand for a set time and not been put back in.
I would still like this option as a safety thing, so if you forget to put the iron back in the stand, it won't just stay on forever and pose a fire risk.
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I would be nice to have another timeout, but even with three timeouts it's confusing. Forth may cause more confusion than help I guess.
I use central solution for this kind of issue where all power supplies, DUTs or potencially dangerous instruments are swicthed by master switch. I'm used to never leave bench powered when I go away unless absolutely necessary. Switch box has lights so it's easy to see that power is on. Easy and simple to switch everything off and on. Perhaps you could think of some central solution instead? One could make relay box where bench will turn off by itself if too much time passes and you could warn before timeout and reset timer with button. Many options. Central switch would give you much more safety. In many cases instruments can be safe, but your DUT/project in progress may not, so that's why I prefer central solution instead of shutting down specific instruments.
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i use a motion and or door sensor on both are hooked up and on a switch to use either one. they are in the the entrance to where i work with soldering and hot air guns etc so when i leave the room and walk past it or close the door then all power is shut off to the desk and stations so i never have to worry about anything being left on. i set it on the door way so i have to walk through it. it also will turn them on when i enter the room so they are ready to use. there is a manual switch of course to fully disable it if i want to. i think it works great and has yet to fail by leaving anything on. only my wife and older teenage daughter so i dont have to worry about any little kids messing with it. and i can easily look into the room to see if the leds are lit to verify it is off if i ever want to.
ive also considered changing the pot out to see if i can make it a bit more responsive. i wish the firmware was either open or we could dump it to work with it if i get an itch one day i may take it back apart to see if there might be a way to flash or mod these that would be awesome imo.
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Don't ever hope for open source firmware from manufacturer. Manufacturer will never do it since it would give clones way too easy way to make customized copy. The only way for open source firmware is to write it again by community.
You can get binary blob easily since they support firmware upgrade. Just start their AiXun Platform installation package (JCID) application and application automatically downloads latest firmware blob into "downdata" directory located in installation directory of JCID. Looks like regular firmware binary, but it seems to have some extra data. Likely some formatting would be needed to flash it directly with STLink. Or you can abuse JCID application to flash modified firmware blob. Maybe replacing firmware with read-only file would work or block their API in firewall or swap firmware after download from API but before upload to station. You also can download firmware from their API http://api.jcxxkeji.com:9000/upload/bott/JC_M_T3A.bin (http://api.jcxxkeji.com:9000/upload/bott/JC_M_T3A.bin) (this URL is hardcoded in JCID.exe binary). You don't even need to take it apart since firmware upgrade is supported out of the box.
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i was thinking they would have the usb port somehow locked down. i have not spent any time on it looking at it yet that was just a thought off the top of my head last night lol.
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Hello,
thank you for all the inputs regarding the Aixun T3(A). I own beside some old Weller stations, also a Pace ADS200. It is a nice unit, but compare to an JBC T470 or even an T245 it is not so powerful, when you have to solder power electronic parts. So I ordered an Aixun T3A with an T245 handle. I have not found any news, if and how it is possible to use an JBC tweezer at the T3A station. Is there a splitter or an electronic I can use between this station and an tweezer?
Thank you for your help ....
ADS200 is arguably defective in that it cannot output its rated power (120W) continuously.
It is not possible to use tweezers directly. Maybe if you are adventurous you can parallel the heater connections together, but, not entirely sure that would work: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/jbc-handle-cartridge-data/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/jbc-handle-cartridge-data/)
You really want a station with two outputs to power the two heaters in a tweezer.
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Thanks a lot for your information. The pinout of the JBC cartridges will help to adopt tweezers to an Aixun T3A or T3B. To but them parallel seams the only way to use them in this config, as you wrote.
Regarding the ADS200, in this video it is described at about 20 minutes of the video, that the Pace will not give all the power to reach the temperature under full load.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGaTJmuy21U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGaTJmuy21U)
I explored the same behavior. May Pace is limiting the full 120W continuous to protect the heating element. I don't know.
Thanks again and all the best ...
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It's worth mentioning that the Unisolder can run tweezers. You can build one for about 150 euro, not including taxes and casing. There are several projects for 3D printed casing if you look around. Maybe sell the Pace, and go Unisolder.
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ok can i ask then instead of paralleling the heater elements, how about adding a 2nd mosfet. and driving it with the same signal from the mcu? perhaps that would be slightly better way?
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Paralleling is bad since you share control loop. With one control loop temperature will be off on not monitored tip. By how much depends on thermal load and thermal coupling. Another mosfet is identical thing. You share control loop and put heater in parallel. Also, two heaters will double current from power supply - may be issue too. It may work somehow, but it's not good idea.
Imagine extreme condition - one side of tweezers has good thermal coupling, tip is wetted. Other side is not wetted and has terrible thermal coupling.
If you have control loop monitoring loaded side, then temperature of other side could be crazy high.
If you have control loop monitoring unloaded side, then temperature of other side would be too low, and it wouldn't melt solder.
In reality, it may not be always as bad as this example, but here you can see how sharing control loop is flawed. One side would be unregulated in specific conditions.
You really want two independent outputs or two stations. There is no good way to easily add support for tweezers. You would need to duplicate control board to do it properly.
I guess two modified cheap KSGER units could do it or better build Unisolder.
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Did anyone buy the stand in this listing:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS)
?
I'm trying to figure out whether it's out-of-the-box compatible with T3A + T245 (in terms of connectors/standby). The listing is a bit unclear on that.
P.S. Or if you have an Ali link for a known-compatible stand, that would be very helpful too. Thanks!
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its is not you have to change the connectors either on the handle side or the stand side. the stand is for the t3b which has a stock jbc style connector not the one that comes with the t3a it can work but requires some mods to work.
edit supposedly this is a new model stand after asking them for the 245 station. i ordered one il see when it gets here if it works or what needs to be done to make it work if not.
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Did anyone buy the stand in this listing:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS)
?
I'm trying to figure out whether it's out-of-the-box compatible with T3A + T245 (in terms of connectors/standby). The listing is a bit unclear on that.
P.S. Or if you have an Ali link for a known-compatible stand, that would be very helpful too. Thanks!
Yes, I'm just waiting for it to arrive, hopefully in the next week or so. Video once it's here :-+
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i did get a response that this will supposedly be the new model stand included with the t3a now but the price will go up accordingly. im was told somewhere around 150-as much as 180$ as a full set depending on which response im going off of, kind of a bummer they decided to change it after i bought them lol, always the way it is.
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Did anyone buy the stand in this listing:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS)
?
I'm trying to figure out whether it's out-of-the-box compatible with T3A + T245 (in terms of connectors/standby). The listing is a bit unclear on that.
P.S. Or if you have an Ali link for a known-compatible stand, that would be very helpful too. Thanks!
Yes, I did recieve one.
It is part of a T3B station and accommodates my T245 handle. I use it with a T3A station.
Sleeping mode is by wire & plug connection with the T3A station.
The stand is directly useable.
Frans
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Just idea for diy people - you don't need to buy and then modify pricy stand. You can easily create better stand on your own. I just bought few gx12-5 connectors, piece of 4 core silicone cable and put it on stand that I used with T12 (I think this is SR-SH819 from tme.eu). I didn't use original stand since this one is heavier and has wool instead of sponge. I did steal collar from original stand though (and piece of original stand act as nut). Now I have only one cable going to station and handle plugs into stand. I didn't modify handle nor station. Stand just plugs between station and handle as is. Easy and efficient.
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Did anyone buy the stand in this listing:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.251a34b0TK3OKS)
?
I'm trying to figure out whether it's out-of-the-box compatible with T3A + T245 (in terms of connectors/standby). The listing is a bit unclear on that.
P.S. Or if you have an Ali link for a known-compatible stand, that would be very helpful too. Thanks!
Yes, I did recieve one.
It is part of a T3B station and accommodates my T245 handle. I use it with a T3A station.
Sleeping mode is by wire & plug connection with the T3A station.
The stand is directly useable.
Frans
was the one you got sold as a 245 stand? the one person who got back to me told me this is supposedly a new stand for the 245 specifically (they could be totally wrong and just selling the other one as the "245" one) so im curious
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A few remarks:
most current OEM/clone soldering stations operate on the same priciples when compared: Weller, Pace,
Hakko, JBC, AIXUN, KGER, T3A, T3B, T12, etc. None of them deserves 80 pages to discuss their
performance or software version(s).
They all react fast, have a comparable control part and a SMPS for 12V, 24V and 48V dc,
depending on the required power.
The connectors are either Binder, Hirosi or aero connectors and the stands vary in price from plastic
and sponge ($10-15) to more luxurious from metal, metal wool cleaner ($35-50) to the most luxurious
JBC stands ($120-150). And of course there are infinite amounts of DIY solutions. Nice one, cgf5!
Quote:
was the one you got sold as a 245 stand? the one person who got back to me told me this is supposedly a new stand for the 245 specifically (they could be totally wrong and just selling the other one as the "245" one) so im curious"
Unquote.
Yes, it was sold to accomodate a T245 handle. Not directly fitting is the NT115 handle (smaller).
Looking at the use of tweezers, even JBC sells their most powerful station in sets of two to be able to use tweezer handles (KHT470A).
The best station is from my point of view the Unisolder 5.2c. However, the screen/display forces the use of strange and uncomfortable cabinets.
I am also using the TEC extension, a relatively simple switch box, see attachment.
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I did some reverse engineering work.
The low voltage DCDC is MP9942 and outputs 2.8V. That's some odd choice given the uC is rated 3.3V nominal voltage. This is also the supply for the TC amplifier.
The diode addition near the DCDC is some voltage limitation for the EN pin of the regulator. It might be that the pull-up to 24V was injecting too much current.
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Connectors & connections,
FYI
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The latest firmware is now 1.22. Version 1.21 showed increased power-up overshoot compared to 1.20.
Now it increased even more to 40C to 50C both with genuine JBC tips and Chinese knockoffs. There's also a noticeable switching noise when the applied power is between 100% and 0%.
I hope they will not make this an unusable tool.
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I did check temperature rise from 15C to 300C set point. With 1.20 - no overshoot, temperature raised to ~310C and stayed there. This was done with cheap tip.
Identical tip from 15C to 300C with 1.22 - overshoot to ~340C then stabilized to ~310C and stayed there. Indeed, 1.21 or 1.22 did change heating loop.
Changelog says otherwise thought - there is no entry about general/T245 heating adjustment:
1.22 (2021-10-14)
1.Optimization of T12 soldering pen heating;
1.优化T12焊笔加热;
1.21 (2021-10-08)
1.Add the function of "sleep display boot screen";
2.Add the function of "custom display boot screen";
1.添加“休眠显示开机画面”的功能;
2.添加“自定义显示开机画面”的功能;
Not sure why they have changelog when they don't say what they actually change... Or did they change it by mistake without knowing?
I did hear noise from beginning (1.17 or 1.18 not sure) but with 1.22 the noise is much more pronounced. Before it was very high frequency noise - now frequency of the noise is lower, and thus more noticeable to more people. This noise is coming from handle not station itself. You will hear this even with extractor fan running since it's close to you.
In result, I can confirm what pipb is saying just my overshoot is not as huge.
Temperature overshoot is not good but also it's not big deal. The extra noise may be distracting or annoying to some people.
So don't update for now. 1.21/1.22 doesn't bring anything desirable. Let's see what they do next.
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I'm still curious about the long term effects of the Aixun on the tips vs. a real JBC unit. As SteveyG pointed out, the tips in the Aixun are being driven by a non-current limited source. Not sure if the overshoot in the newer firmwares really matters as it is in the normal operating temperatures of the tips.
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yup im still on 1.20 and im glad i didnt update them. mine make no noise at all right now that would drive me crazy lol
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I see it's nice station, but why there are no calibration presets for different tips like KSGR?
Do I have to have calibrator beside me when changing tips to use the station?
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I didn't use calibration per tip much on KSGER anyway. I didn't see much difference between profiles or between different tips with same profile. It was too much work to remember to switch for the little or no benefit I got from it.
With T3A T245 I see even less difference between different tips. Tiny pointy one or gigantic 6.6 mm. Temperature is similar, yet the difference in tip is large as it could be. There exists tip to tip difference but not because of profile but because of cheapness.
Why not to have calibration per tip? It's not required with decent tips as I see it + it adds complexity to UI.
Do you have to calibrate when changing tip? No way. I often use as large tip as I can to maximize performance so calibrating each time would be terrible since I switch regularly.
I suggest obtaining thermometer for soldering irons and check each new tip you get thought. There can be temperature difference between tips not because they have different size/profile but because they are cheap. Checking temperature is good thing anyway just for sanity check.
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Thank you for clarification.
What about SMPS PSU used? Is it double insulated? Or do I need to remove Y caps between GND? The GND wire certainly is danger to Electronics since most countries use TNC-S wiring systems without true ground separate from 240V altogether.
https://jestineyong.com/double-insulated-smps/
I would not want to use 200W 240v to 240V transformer to make it floating.
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I didn't use calibration per tip much on KSGER anyway. I didn't see much difference between profiles or between different tips with same profile.
Idk about ksger firmware, but I heard on this forum that in open-source firmware different cartridges have different PID coefficients. I didn't do any measurements to confirm that.
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@smile
No. T3A uses grounded power supply. Negative si grounded to earth. This is IMHO standard with all soldering stations due to ESD. This is not double insulated power supply.
BTW: You can't "fix" double insulated power supply by just removing suppression capacitor between primary and secondary! If you don't like double insulated power supplies - don't use them! If you just remove suppression cap then you convert double insulated SMPS into transmitter! That's bad. The capacitor does have purpose and needs to be there. Insulation transformer will not help you! It will remove elevation but also it will disconnect return path for noise! You need grounded power supply if you care about output elevation.
@exe
Yes you are correct - it's a thing. You can improve performance by "blindly" increasing aggressiveness of PID controller if you know what minimum thermal load is connected. In such case you apply large amounts of energy, and you rely on specific thermal mass of tip in order not to overshoot. That's the theory but in practice you can select safe average values and make compromise. There are other more significant factors to optimize - like coupling between sensor and tip, tip mass and many others. If you want to squeeze maximum possible performance then you will care what tip is present, but you can also get high performance station even without archiving maximum efficiency in everything. That said manual selection is pain and if it doesn't make big significant difference in real world then it's not worth the overhead in my opinion. Ask yourself why all high-end stations don't have auto-detection for tip type.
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Thank you for replies, I think then all these years Weller and other top brands were simply incompetent by using transformers instead if SMPS right.
No. T3A uses grounded power supply. Negative si grounded to earth. This is IMHO standard with all soldering stations due to ESD. This is not double insulated power supply.
Look at TNC-S wiring then you will agree it is not safe to leave the GND connected (with transformer that is), with SMPS it's dangerous.
Regarding ESD I agree, but in post soviet countries there is no proper grounding. Better not to have half time mains connected to your soldering iron tip.
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The original tip prices are outrageous, and chinese fake ones are bad quality. 2 original tips = same prices as AiXun T3A.
This can be way worse purchase then
hot plate + T12, or
heat gun + T12, or
German 100W iron + power adjuster for 4USD from aliexpress + T12
https://www.tme.eu/lt/en/details/rot-35959/soldering-irons-and-guns/rothenberger-industrial/35959/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/en/details/rot-35959/soldering-irons-and-guns/rothenberger-industrial/35959/)
I remember when there was no T12 main problems was the crooks from ERSA ant WELLER had uber expensive options, but only they provided complex shape tiny tips. Now all this is history with T12.
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Regular iron transformer will work too. Nothing wrong with that. Just 200VA transformer is large and heavy. That's why I expect all manufacturers will use SMPS in this class of soldering station.
What matters is what is soldering tip connected to - and in all cases it should be earth ground. SMPS or transformer doesn't matter.
I'm confused. It's dangerous to have GND connected to what? To earth? That's how it should be. Why it's bad? Can you please explain?
T12 is much better value. But if you want the best performance then T245 is better no matter the cost difference. I use only cheap tips and didn't found deal braking issue so far. One has bad temperature offset, but many others are just fine. The price difference is 2x but imagine you buy more tips, then 2x makes large difference. T245 is joke in value compared to T12 sure. But I care about performance more than value.
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I'm confused. It's dangerous to have GND connected to what? To earth? That's how it should be. Why it's bad? Can you please explain?
No Ground is fine, except ground of power outlets in TNC-S is also connected to neutral line.
https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/erection-procedures-of-earthing-arrangements-tnc-tn-s-tnc-s-and-tt (https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/erection-procedures-of-earthing-arrangements-tnc-tn-s-tnc-s-and-tt)
The High Frequency Soldering Station like A-BF 260D is 90Eur with Free shipping, tips are 5Eur.
True 120W with toroidal tranformer not SMPS crap.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003249210514.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003249210514.html)
Seems like a better deal, NO ??? perhaps this is fake
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Using uncontrolled solder iron (https://www.tme.eu/lt/en/details/rot-35959/soldering-irons-and-guns/rothenberger-industrial/35959/) is bad idea since you will have terrible temperature control. Strapping external controller will make it the slowest soldering station on planet. This is not alternative. It's bad.
Hot plate will work but will make everything hot, and it's slow. It's alternative but slow one.
Heat gun will work, and it's faster, but it heats surroundings and may melt some connections.
A-BF 260D (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003249210514.html) uses tips where you have heater separated - this will give you much worse performance than T12 or T245. I will never go back to this old technology. It was huge upgrade when I did go from this tip style to T12.
In short if you want better performance there is no way but only to pay for something better than T12 or turning temperature to blazing hot. If you don't deal with ground planes or big connectors then you may not care - stay with T12, and you will be happy. But if you do then T245 makes sense even considering cost because there are no cheap alternatives yet.
If you have shared neutral/earth then it's not ideal but that's what you got. Some earth is way better than no earth at all. If you don't trust your earth then you have way bigger safety issues than power supply in soldering iron. Think about it - when is shared earth dangerous - only if something gets damaged or mis-wired but no earth is dangerous always.
Remember you can always replace SMPS with whatever power supply you like. Just don't expect manufacturers to put large toroidal transformer into everything. It's not really sensible. Also remember shipping from China is very weight sensitive and will go really high if you add extra few kg of transformer. Try to buy 200VA transformer by itself from China you will get what I mean.
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The tips in the Aixun are being driven by a non-current limited source.
Neither do JBC stations. They turn a triac on/off, there's no fine PWM regulation or anything like that.
Their modulation is to send or not the next half sine wave.
Sure, there's current sensing, but that's a protection mechanism, the station will simply cut off the powerr and show an error if the current is excessive.
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Thanks, David. Didn't know that. The T3A is a great unit, and I'm personally a little skeptical about the first release of anything. But Aixun does an excellent job with firmware support (which seems to be the doom of the majority of these Chinesium stations). And while 200w is over the rating of the JBC tips, it's already been pointed out that there are very few applications that you could use it for sustained 200w draw. So it does come with a "User Beware" in those cases.
Going forward, it seems like the only changes to be made are cosmetic, making it more like the T3B with a better stand and power switch on the front. That will increase the price, but that's to be expected. It's still tremendous value for the money considering what it does. Perhaps not as much value as the KSGER, where you can start off cheap with the T12 if you're on a budget, then upgrade to 245 handle and custom FW when ready (although you do lose some watts). And depending on how much the T3A goes up in price, it may encroach on Unisolder price range where you get more handle options and tweezers. But that's up to the individual.
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So same station handles both tips? T12 and T245 ?
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Yes, the KSGER/Quicko does. But it won't use the 245 handle straight from the manufacturer. You need to modify it, I believe it is 2 wires and a resistor. You also need to install the custom firmware, which requires an ST Link, and you most likely have to solder 4 header pins to the board for the ST link to connect to (which is a case of needing a soldering iron to fix your soldering iron...). Overall, it isn't really difficult. For no hassles and performance, the Aixun is the clear winner. But if you are on a budget, the KSGER is great because it's cheap, and you can upgrade it later. I'm just pointing all of this out because a lot of people use the forums as a resource for purchasing choices. Depending on how much you are willing to spend, the $130 you could spend on an Aixun would get you a Quicko T12, a roll of solder, some flux, some side cutters, a roll of hook up wire, and an Aneng 8008 multimeter. Depending on your needs, that's not a bad set up.
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this station does handle both you just need the aixun brand handle for the 2 different styles which you can order separate. then you can turn off the unit swap handles and use the other one. i have all three style handles and they all work on the same station just one at a time though. you can also prob modify one to work im going to try that soon myself.
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Does anyone knows if handle connector on T3A T12 is same as KSGER T12? Pinouts anyone?
I have an idea to build hybrid station with both controllers.
The T3A T12 handle would be used on KSGER controller.
The T3A 245 handle would be use on T3A.
This is because I allready have barebones controller of KSGER T12 and Transformer for 100W.
I just did not buy KSGER handpiece as they seem to be poor quality, heat transfer to handpiece or soldering tip has play in the handpiece.
It seems T3A T12 handle is way better?
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Connector is identical gx12-5 but pinout is not! I tried KSGER handle in Aixun T3A just to see what happens and Aixun was very confused. Surprisingly Aixun detected T12, but temperature was funny and heater didn't work. KSGER has extra tilt switch for sleep, Aixun not. Aixun does detect handles by shorted pins or something like that. KSGER doesn't need that, so that's why pinouts are different and need to be. There is no way that they are compatible. You can find KSGER pinout online and confirm by looking at controller PCB around connector. I don't have T12 handle for Aixun so not sure what pinout is there.
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ill have to take apart the t12 aixun handle again. the one i got didnt work so i had to take it apart when i got it. the blue wire going to the 10k resistor was broken off and the green going to the switch inside was also broken. i had to replace the resistor (it broke right at the resistor so i couldnt use the one it came with) i can say the outside quality of the t12 handle is really nice but the one i got the wiring inside was crap. ill have to re solder it all one day when i have time there was no heat shrink on the resistor leads and they were ALMOST touching the other solder joints it was suuuuper close. i added a piece on the resistor but the rest should get it also imo. it actually worked with a 9.6k i had on hand recognized it just fine. the aixun does show up like its working on the ksger but does not heat up.
i also dont like how hard it to to put the t12 into the heater and pull it back out. with the ksger it goes in nice and smooth. both the aixun t12's ive used you have to really push it in there and to take it out while hot you really need something to grab it with or hold the stand down good. and the tip to grip is a lot closer on the ksger ones then the aixun t12. very comfortable handle to hold though.
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Well the KSGER has an official shop on ali and if you read their customer ratings on soldering tips they are all great.
Aixun does not have official shop just random sellers, they do not care about quality of the tips they sell, and reviews confirm they are random quality. Not great.
I can justify the price of Aixun if I get just front panel, chinese sellers do not want to sell it alone :( Then use proper transformer to make grat soldering station. I do not need SMPS crap.
Next is the price of official soldering tips, 120W soldering iron should use high power soldering tips. So these will cost easily 150Eur (for 3 tips). Add transfomer cost and you get to the 138 + 150 + 40 = 325Eur Not cheap.
I understand the T12 is not so great but I do not need 120W on every job. An tips are cheap for T12 and reliable if you buy KSGER brand single tips, not sets of tips.
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You could modify the Aixun too. The power supply just goes to a 2 pin connector on the front controller board. You can remove the power supply board entirely, run 2 wires from the control board to barrel jack on the back (probably 2.2mm or 2.5mmm), then use your bench supply to power it. Just make sure the polarity is correct. But honestly, the power supply seems to be acceptable. For as long as this thread has been going, no one has reported any failures. Just one cracked inductor that may have already been damaged before installation (quality control doesn't seem to be Aixun's strong suit). I've already said my peace on the soldering quality inside these units, it seems to vary quite a bit, but again no failures. For anything that imitates quality, industry-standard gear, at a fraction of the price, there are always some concerns/issues. And the majority of them can be corrected. That's the great thing about the EEVblog forums! If there's a little solder clean up, I can live with that.
As for the cost of the Aixun, 130usd/112eur might be a little steep if you don't want to use the power supply. But you can also just buy the base unit (no stand, handle, or tips) for 85usd/74eur. It will use the T12 as well, but you will have to change the wiring in the handle, and probably remove the motion sensor. So you can still use your t12 tips and handle, and get a 245 handle and tips at a later point. As for the 245 tips, where are you going to buy them from? 50 euro each is really expensive. On TME, the common 245 tips are 24usd/20eur, while the long life tips are 38usd/33eur. Not sure what VAT would be, but it shouldn't double the price. Unless VAT is 100%...
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What's the hype around the smps vs transformer for just driving a simple resistive load?
I would understand that for very low noise device like high end audio stuff, but not for a heater.
KSGER brand is just the same thing, renamed with +20...50% extra cost.
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i am guessing it is because some people like to keep switched on their other sensitive test and measurement equipment. next to it nearby in the lab. for example if the oscilloscope takes 2+ min to boot up. into it's OS. or because they have other sensitive gear that gets thrown off
if not that, then it more about being obsessed with the noise, the design or the quality. then no real inconvenience
speaking for myself i would not care anything if doing some little bit of soldering throw off my scope. just so long as did not have to reboot it every time. then it really should not affect those typical workflow.
:-//
uh... i suppose maybe if you were somebody who wants to keep the iron switched on in automatic standby / sleep mode for all the time. and not physically keep turning off the iron main unit at the psu side main power switch perhaps? but that never bothered me. because the boot time and heat up time is really fast, right? only a few seconds
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1.23 (2021-11-01)
1.Optimized heating logic control;
1.优化加热逻辑控制;
1.23 didn't change much (https://aixun-updates.github.io/). Overshoot is similar to 1.22. Handle is still singing - maybe bit less? Not sure on this one.
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50 euro each is really expensive. On TME, the common 245 tips are 24usd/20eur, while the long life tips are 38usd/33eur. Not sure what VAT would be, but it shouldn't double the price. Unless VAT is 100%...
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245301/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245301/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245301/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245301/)
54.45 EUR
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245808/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245808/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245808/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245808/)
38.96 EUR
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245866/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245866/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245866/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245866/)
36.06 EUR
Not cheap.
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ill have to take apart the t12 aixun handle again. the one i got didnt work so i had to take it apart when i got it. the blue wire going to the 10k resistor was broken off and the green going to the switch inside was also broken. i had to replace the resistor (it broke right at the resistor so i couldnt use the one it came with) i can say the outside quality of the t12 handle is really nice but the one i got the wiring inside was crap. ill have to re solder it all one day when i have time there was no heat shrink on the resistor leads and they were ALMOST touching the other solder joints it was suuuuper close. i added a piece on the resistor but the rest should get it also imo. it actually worked with a 9.6k i had on hand recognized it just fine. the aixun does show up like its working on the ksger but does not heat up.
i also dont like how hard it to to put the t12 into the heater and pull it back out. with the ksger it goes in nice and smooth. both the aixun t12's ive used you have to really push it in there and to take it out while hot you really need something to grab it with or hold the stand down good. and the tip to grip is a lot closer on the ksger ones then the aixun t12. very comfortable handle to hold though.
Do you compared the KSGER T12 Aluminum Alloy FX9501 Handle Carbon Fiber For STM32 OLED Soldering Iron Station Pen Welding Tip Electric Tools V2.1S
The Aixun T12 handle has a ring that needs to be loosened to easily remove the tips, no?
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H2897a38af6024173b690363ae741c1879.jpg)
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https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245301/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245301/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245301/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245301/)
54.45 EUR
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245808/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245808/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245808/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245808/)
38.96 EUR
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245866/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245866/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245866/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245866/)
36.06 EUR
Not cheap.
First tip is gigantic 8.8 mm. T12 doesn't even have 6.6 mm or 8.8 mm. Biggest T12 I could find cheaply is 5.2 mm. Price is irrelevant if you can't even buy T12 version.
Thus no T12 comparable tip costs 50 EUR. They are expensive, but you making it seem bigger than it actually is.
I brought C245 clones for 12-15 EUR, they work acceptable for me. I couldn't find difference between genuine and clone so far. 12 EUR si more than T12 clones, but it's also way less than 50. You can make it work if you want.
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i will check mine (i have 2 t12 aixun handles) the tighten and loosen is meh on one it kind of works better then the other one. on one of them its really hard to "snap" the tip into the handle at the end. the other is better but neither one is as smooth as the ksger handles to slide the tip in and out of when changing them.
i dont personally like the carbon fiber aluminum one personally i prefer the plain black aluminum one. but other then feeling cheap due to the added tip length id use the regular plastic blue ksger first before the aixun even though that ksger one feels really cheap. the aixun one feels great in the hand it feels well made but i dont use it to much. my t3a's really only see the 245 handles most of the time i bought the t12 ones to test them out. the aixun t12 one does solder well but check the wires inside i had to fix one right from the start and the other one i decided to re do also it was not done very well.
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What's the verdict on firmware? Have there been solid performance improvements with each version, or is it a matter of personal preference from 1.20-1.23?
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I don't see much difference in practical results between 1.18-1.19 and 1.20-1.23. So I would not recommend updating. Most noticeable change is singing of handle, and you probably don't want that. I would wait until something useful gets implemented.
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i updated one of my 2 stations and there was no noise from the handle. i decided to try the other one same result no issue. there is the slight overshoot now but it works more like the real jbc does now.
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It's amazing how people trust what's seen on the screen.
As far as I know, JBC do overshoot, might be intentional to provide a quick boost.
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yup jbc def overshoot its normal they way they work now this one works very much the same way. doesnt bother me at all but with the older firmware it didnt do the overshoot so some people dont like it i guess???
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What overshoot JBC really has tho? SDG did test DDE-2C JBC station (https://youtu.be/xGPVhv5fZGs?t=1215) where temperature was consistently higher than display by 20C+. That's not overshoot - that's wrong temperature. Overshoot was almost non-existent (at least by looking at the graph). So does JBC really have big overshoot or just wrong temperature readout?
i updated one of my 2 stations and there was no noise from the handle.
Do you use stock aixun handle? I tried two T245 handles + both clone and genuine tips and all combinations did make noise.
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yes oem aixun handle both 245 and t12 (i have 2 of each handle). my jbc units if set to lets say 300 will go up to maybe 340 or so upon warm up then drop right down to 300. i consider that overshoot. but its only during warm up. the 1.23 firmware is for me performing almost the same way. even sdg's video of the new stand for the t3a shows similar after he updated to 1.22. and his handle i dont think is making any noise after the update or i would think he would have said something in the video.
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the new stand is excellent vs the old one. here is the new video from sdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjppo4UfXS4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjppo4UfXS4)
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Hi all.
I just recently had one of these T3A C245 stations delivered. Now, I'm just a beginner in electronics so bear with me here...
With the tips provided the station boot cycles over and over until the tip reaches the set temp (2-3 min heat up time). It then settles down into a stable state. If the iron is put in the stand and allowed to cool then picked up again the boot cycle returns till up to temp.
I purchased another tip (C245 clone) from a different vendor and with that tip the station will boot cycle twice on the first power up of the day it will then perform as it should for the rest of the day, with that tip. Change tips and I'm back to square one.
Strikes me that I may have got a faulty station or I'm sure one of you would have experienced the same issue. It's as though the current draw during heating from cold is causing sufficient voltage drop that the microprocessor is tripping out.
I have ordered the capacitors so I can swap out the ones on the PSU. Don't think that will solve the problem though.
I really don't want the hassle of sending it back blah blah blah and would like to get it working properly.
Has anyone got any ideas what the problem could be?
Any pointers would be helpful, as I said I am just learning and this station is a bit complicated for me to troubleshoot from scratch on my own.
Thanks in advance folks.
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what firmware is yours one you tube video shows this and he said after updating the firmware it was much better. also if i power them with a bench power supply for some reason i have seen this once going straight to the wall i did not see it again
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Gather more information. For sure looks like faulty/weak power supply, but it can be as simple as loose wire/connector. If you think brownout occurs - verify this by looking at voltage when station is booting from cold. I would first look for obvious shipping damage then I would verify that all connections are solid. Different tips can have different resistances and thus will have different inrush - this may explain why some are acting worse than others. You could also test internal power supply with electronic load to verify it can deliver around 7A @ 24V.
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see here is this what yours is doing?? https://youtu.be/7OyU_cC6m7U?t=743
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what firmware is yours one you tube video shows this and he said after updating the firmware it was much better. also if i power them with a bench power supply for some reason i have seen this once going straight to the wall i did not see it again
Hi, thanks for the reply.
I'm on the latest version v1.23. I fully expected the update to sort the problem as per the video you're referring to but it didn't help my station!
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see here is this what yours is doing?? https://youtu.be/7OyU_cC6m7U?t=743
Hi. That's exactly what it does only it keeps on doing it over and over till the tip reaches the Temp set point (takes 3min!), then it stops re booting till it cools down again.
The firmware update did not solve the issue for me though.
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are you plugged into the wall directly or are you using a bench power supply? i did hear this happening also with a bench psu that was not providing enough to it.
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Sounds like a current issue. While heating, it draws more current, which causes the boot loop. Once it reaches set temp, it's not drawing much current, and no boot loop. The psu isn't current limited, current throttling and sensing happens in the firmware/microcontroller, and since the unit updated fine, displays fine, and holds temperature once it reaches set temp, the microcontroller is generally fine, but there may still be an issue. It seems like the GD32 current limit is being exceeded on start up. If you would solder something big that draws a lot of current, it would probably cause another boot loop. My guess is it's one of 3 things- possibly a stray ball of solder bridging some of the current pins on the microcontroller, an actual fault in that part of the microcontroller, or an issue with one of the capacitors on the power supply (a bad cap, or a bad joint). You're going to have to open up the back, pull out the power supply, inspect the joints (take pics and post them if unsure), and even make sure the capacitors are oriented the right way (see attached image). Make sure you discharge the caps first too! While the board is out, you can see the controller board through the back. Use a good light and magnification to inspect the GD32 (the large black square on the front control board) looking for stray solder balls bridging any pins. As shown in SteveyG's video, getting to the controller through the front is kind of a pain. You have to heat the front panel to warm up the double sided adhesive, then pry it off. That can complicate things as far as returns go, so it's best to go through the back for now.
And yes, if the big capacitor wasn't in the right way, you'd know immediately. Just beating people to the punch.
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Sounds like a current issue. While heating, it draws more current, which causes the boot loop. Once it reaches set temp, it's not drawing much current, and no boot loop. The psu isn't current limited, current throttling and sensing happens in the firmware/microcontroller, and since the unit updated fine, displays fine, and holds temperature once it reaches set temp, the microcontroller is generally fine, but there may still be an issue. It seems like the GD32 current limit is being exceeded on start up. If you would solder something big that draws a lot of current, it would probably cause another boot loop. My guess is it's one of 3 things- possibly a stray ball of solder bridging some of the current pins on the microcontroller, an actual fault in that part of the microcontroller, or an issue with one of the capacitors on the power supply (a bad cap, or a bad joint). You're going to have to open up the back, pull out the power supply, inspect the joints (take pics and post them if unsure), and even make sure the capacitors are oriented the right way (see attached image). Make sure you discharge the caps first too! While the board is out, you can see the controller board through the back. Use a good light and magnification to inspect the GD32 (the large black square on the front control board) looking for stray solder balls bridging any pins. As shown in SteveyG's video, getting to the controller through the front is kind of a pain. You have to heat the front panel to warm up the double sided adhesive, then pry it off. That can complicate things as far as returns go, so it's best to go through the back for now.
And yes, if the big capacitor wasn't in the right way, you'd know immediately. Just beating people to the punch.
Thank you very much. The 1st part of your post is exactly along the lines that I was thinking.
Thanks for the pointers, I now have a place to start.
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You're welcome. Hopefully, it is just stray solder in the wrong place. I will give Aixun enough credit that they may check each unit before boxing and shipping, that your unit passed initially, and something moved around in transit.
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You're welcome. Hopefully, it is just stray solder in the wrong place. I will give Aixun enough credit that they may check each unit before boxing and shipping, that your unit passed initially, and something moved around in transit.
Mr Angolan. I thank you again for your help. Took the station apart today inspected and cleaned everything. Didn't see any issues on the main board.
Powered it up out of the case and spotted the little LED on the PSU going on and off as it boot cycled so I extrapolated that the issue was with the PSU. Looked closer at the PSU and found a couple of iffy joints so sorted those out. While I was at it replaced 3 of the 5 Caps on the PSU board, two of the caps I had wouldn't go in because they were a bit larger in diameter so wouldn't fit.
Anyway long story short it now works perfectly! I'm happy, even though I did manage to crack the front panel whilst removing it. Never mind, I can live with a little cosmetic flaw.
Thanks again.
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Well, so much for my "Aixun checks them before shipping" theory. They do a great job with firmware support, but QC still leaves a lot do be desired. Only 2 reported issues now, but still could be better. CGF5's "singing handle" seems to be unique to his unit, so there's that too. Mine doesn't do that, and nobody else has reported it. Probably one of the connections in the handle is just loose enough to oscillate.
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How can you trutst KSGER when you find these kind of photos about their carbon T12 handle?
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Ube944fe2ee6244f18cb86ee6918940e2K.jpg)
Usual Black handle is not better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BotH7s2TGYc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BotH7s2TGYc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWfGd8Uu09c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWfGd8Uu09c)
So maybe I should get Aixun T12 handle for my KSGER and modify it with the tilt switch? Any tutorials how to add it would be very appreciated.
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i use the black one in the middle and no issues at all. they fixed the tightness issue i have 4 of those and none have any issues. i actually prefer them to the aixun t12 handle (both of which had soldering issues inside i had to fix)
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I finally got around to ordering one of these T3A's yesterday from a company here in the United States and it just arrived about an hour ago ($17 for FedEx overnight Air... wtf?) and it seems to be working just fine for me. I updated the firmware before ever plugging it into mains which brought it from version 1.15 to 1.23 and so far everything works great. No problems with rebooting or singing handles.
As the old saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.... i've decided to fix it anyway and ordered new electrolytic caps and will be replacing them when they arrive next week. I'm not the biggest fan of the handpiece stand. I much prefer the one that came with my Hakko 936ESD. It makes me wonder if the old Hakko stand could be modified to work with this station.
edit\
So i drilled a 5/16 hole in the side of the hakko holder and installed the banana jack from the Aixun stand into the right side, then unthreaded the silver holder off the Aixun stand and while it sat inside the hakko holder, it was far from a good fit. So i found a piece of 5/8 copper pipe in the garage, and thinned the ID to 18mm and cut a ring off the end and they all press fit together. The T3A using my old hakko stand works perfectly now. goes into sleep mode and everything. I had no idea what it used to sense the handpiece but i'm pretty sure it simply completes a circuit which puts it into sleep. If it was anything more complex, this probably wouldn't have worked.
https://youtu.be/9r8eE6dKZ5g
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they have a new stand for the t3a specifically and imo its really nice. for a little over 30$ on aliexpress.
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they have a new stand for the t3a specifically and imo its really nice. for a little over 30$ on aliexpress.
Yeah. I saw SDG's video about it a while back. Cheapest i found was $36 and for that much money, i'd expect it to be made of metal.
I'm just really used to the hakko stand and the spool holder i made for it. I'm probably going to further modify it to hold the tips where the side trays currently are on it. It's also got enough weight to remove a tip without having to hold it down with the other hand, so another bonus.
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No problems with rebooting or singing handles.
The problems with "rebooting or singing handles" is with T12 or C245 handles?
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https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245301/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245301/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245301/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245301/)
54.45 EUR
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245808/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245808/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245808/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245808/)
38.96 EUR
https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245866/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245866/ (https://www.tme.eu/lt/details/jbc-c245866/lituokliu-kotai/jbc-tools/c245866/)
36.06 EUR
Not cheap.
First tip is gigantic 8.8 mm. T12 doesn't even have 6.6 mm or 8.8 mm. Biggest T12 I could find cheaply is 5.2 mm. Price is irrelevant if you can't even buy T12 version.
Thus no T12 comparable tip costs 50 EUR. They are expensive, but you making it seem bigger than it actually is.
I brought C245 clones for 12-15 EUR, they work acceptable for me. I couldn't find difference between genuine and clone so far. 12 EUR si more than T12 clones, but it's also way less than 50. You can make it work if you want.
KSGER has these huge ones
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB12G8.Q4jaK1RjSZFAq6zdLFXa0.jpg)
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Anyone knows why T12 or china clone C245 tips has nothing like this for desoldering SMD caps, resistors
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im pretty sure the one i got is metal ill check tomm but i dont think its plastic.
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i use the black one in the middle and no issues at all. they fixed the tightness issue i have 4 of those and none have any issues. i actually prefer them to the aixun t12 handle (both of which had soldering issues inside i had to fix)
"the black one in the middle" does not have any strain relief on the solder joints inside, you pull on the cable and there is no strain relief that you can use inside the handle they removed it compared to the plastic blue one.
Nobody shown how the aixun T12 handle looks inside yet, perhaps it's mot hard for you to upload few photos?
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i used a small zip tie inside the black ksger ones to hold the wires in place. have yet to have any issues with them at all. im waiting to get some 10k resistors for the aixun t12 handle since one of mine has a bad one and i was out of them they are on the way. ill take some pics when i take it back apart. the aixun has a plastic tab that extends past the wires inside almost exactly like the ksger does. the only real difference is the strain relief off the back of the handle is better but i used a piece of heat shrink on the ksger to take up the extra space over the wire then slid it back into the handle and it fits much more snug now. both of my t12 aixun handles had to be resoldered fairly quickly the blue and green wires are super short on both and tore away from the resistor and the switch inside after a little while even with the zip tie they put on them.
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Hi guys, Picked up the T3A after seeing SDG Electronics video. Was looking for something in the 245 format and thought it was pretty good for the price.
Anyway thought Id throw some info in this thread for anyone who finds it. Also seen some people asking about the T12 Handle so thought Id post a few pics to try and help out.
I bought the T3A in the 936 version and got the T12 handle 3 tip and stand set along with the 245 3 tip and stand set. Worked out to be the cheapest way to get it all at the time. Wanted just the 245 version but thought Id try and and get it to switch on the fly between the 245 and T12 in the future. I don't really need the 245 performance all the time and I have a bunch of specialized T12 tips already and they are cheaper so I don't feel I have to baby them. I got the 936 handle for no real reason and I most likely will never use it.
First down side was that while 245 handle fits the stand fairly well, the T12 and 936 do not. Although the best pictures I could find before I ordered appeared to have slightly different collars, the ones that showed up are all the same.
[attach=1]
Oh well, the handles flop around a bit kinda sucky. Cost about $4 a handle to add the stand. Would have been worth it if they sent the handle specific models but they must have been prototypes for the pics. As long as I'm talking about the stands , I haven't seen it mentioned much but the stands have slots to pull most of the 245 tips out and give them a push back in JBC'ish style if you like that, not awesome but its there..
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
I had an issue with a mains wire that had gotten loose and caused my unit to turn off if I moved it rapidly when I first got it. Opened it up and popped it on and all has been well. If it worked loose in shipping or was installed incorrectly, I"ll never know. My package looked like it went through hell and US Customs also opened it so its likely had a hard trip.
Just like someone recently posted, you can open the unit from the rear and disconnect the front panel power connector and slide the power supply out the rear after removing some glue. No reason to pull the front panel to mess with the power supply. I have to order some caps, and will replace them soon. I usually have bad luck with cheap caps in cheap tools. I was one of the lucky ones who got punctured caps in Two KSGER stations before they fixed that issue, lol.
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Sorry for the multiple posts don't want to exceed the image cap in one post.
The T 12 handle.
Well its a handle, it works. Nothing special.
I'm going to go with I believe its mastershake and say I like the cheap KSGER one the best, yep its crap but the short tip distance makes all the difference.
[attach=1]
The "Turn and Lock" cap is goofy and not really needed. It has an O-ring in it that keeps it electrically insulated from the tip, not really so cool when we NEED the connection so it will sleep when put in the stand LOL. Thought it would be ok to hang it c115 style and ground it from that rear aluminum sleeve, nope insulated too. So to sleep in the included stand it has to sit at an awkward angle so the tip itself hits the collar, but that's OK since it sucks and wont sit straight anyway.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
The handle looks nice and feels pretty good, kind of a pain to pull apart mainly because of the super tight strain relief. I may or may not get the body grounded so the sleep function works better, Ill see if i use it much. Got some pics and a real bad paint drawing of the wiring.
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
[attach=7]
[attach=8]
[attach=10]
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Hmm, Im doing the attachments wrong, I'm putting them as inline expandable but i must be messing it up.
936 Handle
Not much to say about this one as likely no one else is probably going to buy one. I plugged it in to see if it worked and that's likely all the use it will see. Not a great fit in the stand, but sleeps right away as its all grounded. Has a cartridge/plug in heater. I will have to see if I can find spares anywhere.
I have the 245 New stand coming even though I don't mind the cheap one that came with it. Also have two TB3's coming, looking forward to checking them out.
I have very little time on this unit but so far I'm pretty happy. I recommended the KSGER stations before but they have really started to climb in price. So far this these stations seem to be a pretty good value.
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=1 align=left width=400]
[attachimg=2 align=left width=400]
[attachimg=3 align=left width=400]
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It's good that you lined up all the handles like that. I wasn't aware that the Aixun T12 and KSGER T12 were so different, length-wise. The KSGER is the winner. But a majority of the people that get the Aixun are going for the 245. The variety of tips and performance are superior. *HOWEVER* if you already have a T12 handle and a variety of tips, you can upgrade to the 245 whenever you want to. You can spend the $80 US/70 euro to just buy the Aixun base unit (no handle or stand), change the wiring in your T12 handle, get creative with your stand solution (it just requires a mono banana plug and continuity with the iron's tip), and you're good to go. People have to buy the good stand separately anyways, and it's relatively cheap. Same with the 245 handle. Tips are a different story... The 936 is pretty much in the same boat as the T12- if you already have a handle and invested in a bunch of tips, you can just get the base unit for now, then upgrade to the 245 at your own pace. Performance-wise, I don't think you're going to see any difference. The 936 system is kind of outdated anymore. But it's still in people's best interest to at least get the base unit before the price goes up.
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Thanks for in depth review and photos. Good work.
I see the Aixum T12 handle has the mercury switch like KSGER. So why it does not sleep if not moved?
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Well, so much for my "Aixun checks them before shipping" theory. They do a great job with firmware support, but QC still leaves a lot do be desired. Only 2 reported issues now, but still could be better. CGF5's "singing handle" seems to be unique to his unit, so there's that too. Mine doesn't do that, and nobody else has reported it. Probably one of the connections in the handle is just loose enough to oscillate.
Actually first noise was reported by pipb here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg3747691/#msg3747691). I have two different T245 handles and both do the same. It's not as simple as you say. There are for sure more singing T3As! :D
Well they may check if station works, but they don't do proper cleaning since there was many reports of loose solder balls. I would even believe all units work before shipment but if you ship them dirty across world then the debris inside can break some of them.
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Pipb called it switching noise, which may or may not be the same thing as yours. I assumed your issue was more of an oscillation. You and pipb are both in Romania, not sure how close you are, but could it be a mains power issue local to both of you? Do you have to use an adapter plug for the power cord? Maybe try a different one? There really aren't any moving parts in the handle, besides the tip connections, but the resistors in the handle can also broadcast sound under the right circumstances, they can act like a transducer. And just because sound is coming from the handle, that doesn't necessarily mean that's where the sound is originally generated, only where it's broadcast from. Just like a radio and a speaker- the speaker isn't the origin of the signal, it's only broadcasting it. You could trace the noise with an oscilloscope, but at 24v/8A/200w, that's dangerous to both you and (depending on the specs) your oscilloscope. Good luck!
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Remember it started with specific firmware. It's noise controlled by switching of station. Full power 100% - no noise. Zero power 0% - no noise. Between 0% and 100% - makes audible noise. How could any external source make noise in this way? Only sometimes and dependent on how is station switching. I don't see any way.
See images - there you can see how switching looks between heater and station when it makes audible noise (measured through doggy inline coupler) . It's clean. You see only one frequency - main 24V switching. There is no other lower and higher frequency noise. Ignore orientation I have it connected backwards. 10V per division. 1ms, 10ms, 50ms per division. In result of all measurements correlated to audible output: 0% = 0V on heater (no noise); 100% = constant 24V on heater (no noise); between 0% and 100% = switching 0 to 24V at ~1Khz or higher on heater (audible noise). What do you think now?
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There are just so many potential issues with these because of bad soldering, cheap components, and non-existent quality control. And any real issues we've seen always goes back to the SMPS. The firmware update just exposed the issue, I don't think it was the cause (you could prove or disprove that by removing the psu and powering the unit with a bench supply). As per the patch notes, the heating logic was changed, so it draws differently from the psu. So the easy answer is it's the psu. Did you pull out the board and inspect it? Honestly, EVERY issue people have had with all of these Chinese soldering stations is handle/tip issues (which I'd rule out since you tried two different handles), firmware where all units of a specific model do the same thing (not the case here), or the SMPS of a few units is doing something odd while the rest are fine (most likely). I don't think I've ever seen an issue with a control board.
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TL;DR - T3A singing is feature! Not a fault! :D
I'm trying to understand your train of thought but this doesn't make sense to me if I look at the facts. Maybe I'm thinking about this in wrong way, not sure.
Let's assume my power supply is faulty - power supply is the source of this noise (or noise is coming from wall or whatever different source you can think of) - how this noise can get from station into handle? It would need to go through the cable, right? But in previous post you can see - there is nothing else than 24V heater power. Is my measurement wrong? It's possible, but we are talking about audible noise. It would be periodic repeating signal less than 100kHz. Such signal is easy to catch on oscilloscope - even on the shittiest oscilloscope with the worse probing setup. Thus I don't think my measurement is likely to be wrong. In such case - how could audible noise get from power supply into the handle if it doesn't go through the cable? It can't.
Then what is the source of this noise? Look carefully at the 24V wave form for the heater (first image in previous post). Heater is switched in audible frequency range. What if I don't hear any "noise"? Instead I hear the main 24V switching of the heater? Power for heater is 24Vpp 1 kHz square wave into 2.5 Ω heater winding -> 8A peak current. This output would make powerful audio amplifier. With such output I'm not surprised I'm hearing audible noise. I'm surprised that you don't hear it! T3A is very strong audio generator.
Sound is likely to be generated as the common "coil whine" - electromagnetically induced acoustic noise. Repeated current flow through conductor creates tiny movements of such conductor. Vibrating conductor touches surroundings and creates sound by tiny rubbing motion. If this repeating current flow has frequency in audible range then you will hear this as noise. Pumping 1 kHz @ 8A sure will make some movements somewhere. Perhaps this doesn't make movement in heater but maybe movement of contacts touching cartridge? Heater should be solidly potted thus no movement can happen? I can't really pin point where the sound is coming from - if it is coming from tip or handle.
Why did firmware upgrade change this? They likely changed switching frequency from less audible to more audible? I don't have any way to confirm this - but this makes the most sense.
Why you and others don't hear it? I have no idea. It would make sense if you have different hardware version of controller, and your version is using different switching frequency because of different mosfet or driver. This is possible but I don't think there are multiple revisions. In any case it would be awesome if you or anyone else (who has new firmware without noise) could check how switching wave form of the heater looks like. For the science!
I did open my unit when I got it - there were no major issues like bridged contacts with solder or damaged components from shipping. I also tested my internal power supply with electronic load and output was stable. No oscillation under different load conditions. I could replace internal PSU with external power supply but does it even make sense to do?
I can't confirm many things - thus I'm not sure if this is all correct. This is just what makes sense to me if I look at facts. It's not really important to me, but it's great mental exercise! I like T3A anyway, performance is solid and the bit of noise doesn't bother me. It's more curiosity than anything else.
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Hello,
My unit after firmware upgrade from version 1.19 to version 1.23, I got a lot of overshoots when the unit try to warm up the tip. I got 90-100 degree Celsius overshooting temperature for small tips like original JBC 245-064 to 30-40 degree Celsius for large tips like JBC 245-755 . The handle singing noise appear to be the same. There is anyone who experienced that?
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Hi,
Overshoot is well known - it gives you boost when you pickup handle from stand/cold = it gets to temperature faster this way. 90-100 C overshoot is too high. I see more around 30 C even with small tip like
C245906 - it's different profile but similar size as your example. Is your offending example clone? Then I would think this specific tip is at fault. I tried all sizes and all but one (large) clone have reasonable overshoot around 30-40C. I don't think there is any significant relation between tip size and overshoot. I would say some clones are lesser quality and have for some reason bigger overshoot and not as good temperature regulation as others.
So far only few people reported the handle noise issue. You can read what I think about the noise above. There is no known solution so far.
BTW: All 3 people who reported the noise are from Romania, not suspicious at all. What a coincidence! :D
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I was thinking it was a ground loop issue. Not necessarily with the Aixun, but maybe something else connected to your common mains. But I doubt all 3 of you are having the same ground loop issue. The caps in the SMPS filter out unwanted noise, and I thought that could be the problem. But you said the power was clean. I assume all 3 of your units came from the same warehouse, and it is possible that all 3 of you got units with different hardware from the majority of people. So that's a possibility. You said you have two handles. Did they both come from the same place as well? It could also be possible that all 3 of you got handles that were part of a bad batch. You've put a lot of work in to try and figure this out, and I'm looking at it from an outside perspective. I'm officially out of suggestions.
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My T3A T245 is from random ali seller shipped directly from China ~3 months ago. Second T245 handle was bought month later from different seller directly from China. If these handles are from same batch then many other people would have this handle also. It's not from local warehouse or anything like that. For sure country has nothing to do with this. It's just happy coincidence! :D
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Problem with high overshooting appeared immediately after firmware upgrade at version 1.23. Before upgrade, I had minor overshooting and some tips has not. I replace all the caps with low ESR Panasonic and NCC brand. I bought another T245 handle from other aliexpress seller and the same result. It's possible to be my units defective but the problem appear only after upgrade. I have two of JBC c245064 tips and both have same issue: 80-90 degree Celsius overshooting. In the past I burned a JBC 245770 clone with firmware version 1.14 because overshooting issue. From my experience firmware 1.19 was the best for my unit.
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i sent a few emails to see if there is a way to get firmware 1.19 back ill post back if they respond
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its so odd some have the noise issues with these. i had 4 here (2 are mine and 2 are an employee who bought them) and just got 2 more in today for a couple local people i know and none have any issues so far with any noise at all or anything really. and the first 4 came from 2 different sellers in china and the other 2 from an american company in ga we deal with for some phone parts sometimes. so def various places.
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I have two of JBC c245064 tips and both have same issue: 80-90 degree Celsius overshooting.
You have genuine JBC tips with 80-90 C overshoot? Does anyone else has such large overshoots with genuine tips?
In the past I burned a JBC 245770 clone with firmware version 1.14 because overshooting issue.
How is possible to "burn" tip with overshoot? Think about it - you set 300C or 350C, and you have overshoot 400 or 450C for few seconds. These tips are rated for continuous 450C. Thus how can 450C for few seconds hurt the tip? It could happen if the tip was already bad, but then it would fail anyway just later. Are you sure this was station's fault? What kind of temperatures are you using or seeing on display? Higher than 450C?
Generally overshoot is an intentional way how to make heat up faster. It saves your time. It improves performance. It would be nice though if Aixun did allow us to make choice - setting where you can select less or more aggressive overshoot would be awesome. Most people don't mind, but some obviously do. This setting would make everyone happy. I don't believe no overshoot is the answer since genuine stations also have overshoot so this is in fact better genuine experience than before.
its so odd some have the noise issues with these.
Yea, it's strange. With your large sample size you sure should have some noisy units.
What do you think about the output though? Do you think unit should be silent if you generating 1 kHz square wave at ~8A peaks? I would think such output would be very difficult to make silent.
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i sent a few emails to see if there is a way to get firmware 1.19 back ill post back if they respond
I emailed them few questions a few weeks earlier, no response. With such attitude to customers the upgrade firmware feature becomes the weak link, it's nice you do not have to use firewalls like on android for it not to update and brake things.
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they did get back to me when i emailed a while back but it was a little while back. it took a week or more to hear from someone though
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Bought a second unit, and this time I got a dead one.
Same fault as last time. Defect inductor. An easy fix.
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Yes, I have genuine JBC 245064. When I burned the clone tip, unit was set to 350 degree, but for some reasons the unit drove the full power to the tip, until temperature got over 500 degree. My first thought after, was that mosfet unit got shorted , but not. Maybe the tip was faulty.
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<image of 4 handles>
Hi!
Please repeat the same picture of the 4 handles. This time all aligned and a ruler in the photo. ;-)
thx!
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For reference, that blue T12 handle with the J02 has a 45mm grip-to-tip distance so you can guesstimate the rest. 70mm for aixun T12 and about 45mm for the 245 (you're not going to grab it by the metal ring so it only appears shorter). Pretty sure no one care about the old style 936 but that would be 80-85mm.
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I did a load test on the power supply. 24V/6A. It survived 2 hours.
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Survived but with 90-110C on heat sink failure of diode/mosfet is very likely (for sure with higher ambient and/or in closed enclosure). That's fine though - station would never pull such high average power for sustained period. This just confirms that the 24V output on back is bad idea and should be never used. From previous discussion we already know that 120W is likely maximum average power and the 200W figure is only for peaks thus this is expected result.
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Aixun T3B is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds2Xq3dwV30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds2Xq3dwV30)
PCB photo attached.
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Today I upgraded to 1.23 firmware and after using it for some hours I noticed something was missing - the noise! No more singing handle :D. Well some very muted frequency is still present but only if I listen closely - that's nitpicking - I can't hear anything in normal usage when others instruments are running. I would say now the audible output is the same as before 1.20.
I was curious, so I did scope output the same way as before, identical parameters and the output is completely different. See for yourself bellow. Now there is no ~1 kHz switching frequency anymore, instead, there are ~160 Hz pulses only. Did they change it intentionally because of noise, or it is just coincidence? I don't think there is reason to change switching frequency for performance reasons - duty cycle controls power - heater doesn't care about frequency. This confirms the noise was by design - not a fault? That it was side effect of main 24V heater power switching @ 1 kHz.
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anyone else have the update software keep uninstalling itself? getting annoyed lol it does like 3 updates after installing it and sometimes the last one of them fails and then it removes itself.
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Yeah, I'm getting that too. But I'm not too worried about it. In fact, I'm probably going to just uninstall the software. The T3A performance is identical to the JBC now, so I'd be surprised if there were any further updates. It seems totally unnecessary. I'm not going to put a bow on it and say we're definitively done with firmware, but if we're not, we're really close. Nobody seems to have any complaints about 1.23, there doesn't seem to be anything else we need it to do, no point in modifying the firmware even if we could get the source code... Really, what's left?
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Seems changing to proper sized transformer is not so bad idea I have suggested after all.
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If it will fit. Mods to the PSU are about all that can be done. Swapping the electrolytics out for Nichicons or Panasonics is the only thing most people are going to do though. Sure, someone could redesign the power supply, and between the online services, and people on here that have the equipment, we could get a new board for it. But is it necessary? As previously mentioned, it took 2 hours of sustained max draw for it to fail. Nobody is going to use it like that. For what it needs to do, the PSU is perfectly fine. The electrolytics being the only concern. I think most people are fine with it the way it is, and don't really want to spend any more time or money on it. If someone wants to trace and mod it, by all means, do so. I'm fine with it the way it is.
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i thinking about pulling the face and using a toroidal trans i have here in another case just to see how it performs
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Do you mean replacing the existing transformer with your toroid, or using a different toroidal psu to power the control board? If it's a different psu, it probably isn't being overdriven, is limited to 120w, and will take longer to heat up. Otherwise, it will probably perform the same. Replacing the existing transformer might be possible, there is a decent amount of space around it. For US/117vac primary, the Hammond 1182P12 is 3.75 inches wide by 1.63 inches tall. The Hammond has dual primaries, so it will work at 230vac as well, but the Indel TST 120/003 is MUCH cheaper (26eur vs. 53 eur), but is 230vac only. Both Hammond and Indel transformers are the same dimensions, but I haven't measured if there is enough room for them on the Aixun pcb, nor have I considered the mounting hardware for the toroids.
Have at it!
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond/1182P12?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtXHE36kCvv35gEQEha%252BHIxIx%2FhPoNBczA%3D (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond/1182P12?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtXHE36kCvv35gEQEha%252BHIxIx%2FhPoNBczA%3D)
https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/tst120w_24v/toroidal-transformers/indel/tst-120-003/ (https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/tst120w_24v/toroidal-transformers/indel/tst-120-003/)
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You can't replace just transformer. You need to built replacement for original PSU board. But you don't even need custom PCB, prototype PCB will do just fine. Regular power supply is just mains input fuse, transformer, diode bridge and smoothing capacitor(s).
Is possible to overdrive toroidal transformer by this much though? Original switching 120W power supply is pushing over 8A into 2.5Ω heater. Can you overdrive toroidal transformer by this much? I don't believe 120VA 24VAC transformer will give you 8-9A out. Maybe some overbuilt transformers can push 200% but I would guess average transformer will not. So toroidal transformer needs to be bigger since smaller one can't provide high peak power. Well if you want to get similar output. If you fine with lower power then 120VA could work - likely - if voltage doesn't drop too much to cause brownout.
24VAC transformer will give ~30VDC after smoothing, bit too hot I think. Perhaps 17-19VAC is better choice (~22-24VDC). VAC * 1,414 - 2x diode drop from bridge ~= VDC. Of course with no or minimal load voltage will be even higher! This calculates nominal voltage not unloaded voltage. The smaller the transformer the higher the unloaded vs nominal voltage difference.
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Design and operating criteria and limits apply to all system elements.
Implementing weak links is not very useful.
Normally these choices are the result of efficiënt operating requirements.
Oversizing parts of the system is not very useful. Except when already available.
In these cases, the limits are set by the heating element (tip) choice
Hakko, Weller, JBC, OEM type products, etc.
Since they all are functioning along the same principles, choices are limited and simple.
Other factors like lifetime (MTBF, MTTR) are mostly depending on the user requirements.
Happy soldering, Frans
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So I just got my T3A in the other day and didn't notice any noise coming from the handle while desoldering a few components while on the 1.19 firmware it came with. However, after upgrading to 1.23 I did notice slight buzzing coinciding with the power meter on the display. It's not loud enough to be concerning but noticeable in a silent room at regular soldering distance. I've attached a recording of the noise (boosted 40dB) and its spectrum with the station idling at 325C and the supplied knife tip installed. It was recorded with my phone mic directly on the handle around where your fingertips rest as I found that's where the noise was loudest. It's mainly ~166.67 Hz harmonics, in line with what cgf5 measured.
Other than that, it seems like a capable station so far and a definite upgrade from my old FX-888. Maybe Aixun can tweak their firmware to mitigate the small buzzing issue, but it's not too bothersome.
Edit: I had a bit more time with the station today and the station itself buzzes in the same manner as the handle. It's actually what's causing most of the audible buzz I hear. The handle is far fainter in comparison.
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Hi everyone,
I got my T3A in the T245 variant and I am very pleased so far, except for the price of original JBC tips. Anyway, I read a few posts which state, it doesn't work to plug the Aixun T12 handle into the T245 unit - is this confirmed? Is this due only to differences in the connector pinout, or are the PCBs different as well (a.k.a. is it possible to make a connector adapter for the T12 handle to make it work with the T245 station) ?
Does anyone have a handy comparison picture or other resource for the pinouts of the T245 and T12 handles?
Thanks,
Todor
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I read a few posts which state, it doesn't work to plug the Aixun T12 handle into the T245 unit - is this confirmed?
That is incorrect.
The Aixun T-12 Handle works just fine with the T3A. All three versions of the T3A's are interchangeable, just plug whatever iron you want into the base T3A and it will recognize which one it is and work correctly.
The only issues with compatibility you are seeing is people wanting to use/adapt their existing non-Aixun T-12 handle with the T3A. If you buy the Aixun handle it will be plug and play. The Aixun T-12 Iron is decent for the money, if you want a T-12 style handle its a good choice in my opinion.
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I found the same T12 handle in Taobao - here (https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.c2792e8d1POg2P&id=641890100796&_u=i1aqbb7da3a). It's only $5 but not compatible with T3A pinout. You have to mod it before plug into T3A. Fortunately, someone revealed the correct wiring on previous page. It works perfectly. You still need to tweak a little bit to make the sleeping feature working on this handle.
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I've noticed that when I measure the tip temperature of an original JBC C245768 on my T3A with firmware 1.23, the measured temperature fluctuates ~10 degrees C and isn't steady like in some of the YouTube reviews of the T3A (e.g. SteveyG's). The upward swing of these fluctuations is accompanied by the buzzing noise from the station I mentioned in one of my earlier replies. Does this fluctuation happen for anyone else? It's probably not an issue in practice, but makes calibrating the T3A a little more finicky.
Speaking of calibration, the calibration menu on 1.23 seems broken for me. Entering measured values for each temperature point, clicking OK, then returning to the calibration menu resets all of the entered values. In addition, when I entered measured values for the 200, 300, and 400 points, that threw off the temperature at 300 to a measured ~260. Thankfully a factory reset fixed that and I was reading 300-310 (fluctuating as above) when set to 300.
As I was typing this I just checked https://aixun-updates.github.io/ (https://aixun-updates.github.io/) and it looks like they've released new firmware 1.24 with a graph function. Pretty cool! I hope it proves useful.
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I just installed firmware 1.24 and the graph function is useful for seeing temperature and power output. It's accessed by pressing the rotary encoder button while on the main view. Unfortunately there's a bug where letting the graph refresh a few times then going back to the main view corrupts some of the text at the top as well as some of the text in the graph view if you view it again. Turning the unit off and on fixes it.
As for my fluctuating tip temperature, I found that my tip thermometer reads ~3C higher than my Fluke 189 at room temp, so if that offset is constant then it might have been fluctuating -3/+7 around the set temperature. Sure enough, the graph shows that fluctuation as well as the small boosts in power to get the tip back up to temp.
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I had an issue with recovering from hibernation. I had to stick the handle back in the stand a couple of times and it woke up. Seems like 1.24 has a few bugs. For now, I'd just stay with 1.23.
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Hay everyone. After Steves fantastic content on this station i was convinced to step away from basket with the JBC in it in and I ordered the T3A today with the additional stand.
Tbh I have been an old stubborn Antex iron user for many years but it’s time to get with the modern age lo and I was so close to ordering the JBC but this thread and Steve convinced me.
I will be tearing it down to take a look at mine and posting that too once done.
Time to now go and spend more than the iron and kit on JBC Tips.
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Hello everyone,
after reading through this forum post and watching several videos on Youtube i ordered the Aixun T3A. It arrived at my doorstep today and i promptly put it to the test.
One thing i noticed right from the beginning is, that whenever the iron is heating (not at 0%) there is a audible buzzing noise coming from the station. Its not crazy loud but its definitly noticable. I updated to the newest firmware but the problem stayed.
Has anyone noticed it in his/her station? Is that common? Or could it be a bad capacitor or something? I never possesed a soldering station before and my electrical knowledge is somewhat limited :D
I also ordered to new base/stand for the T245. But the sleep mode on it doesnt work. When i use the stand that comes with the station originally, it works without any problems. It might be a lose connection in the new version, but i would have to open it in order to find out whats going on.
I'm happy for any suggestions or tips and tricks that you guys may have.
Thanks in advance :)
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I have the same issue with the buzzing and posted my observations in reply #324 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg3850931/#msg3850931). What version firmware did your T3A originally come with? I didn't notice any buzzing with the 1.19 firmware mine originally came with, but only used it for a short period before upgrading it to the latest. If yours also came with <= 1.19 I might be mistaken.
I also ordered the new stand for the T245 and also had issues with it entering "dormancy" mode. The wire is connected to both the cartridge extractor and the handle holder via ring connectors and screws, and in particular the screw on the left side of the stand connects it to the handle holder. The screw is is half threaded (i.e. threaded in the top half near the head, and smooth/unthreaded near the tip), and the handle holder has a shallow hole in which the tip of the screw is supposed to touch and make electrical contact. On my unit however, the end of the inside of the hole had a layer of the black paint they used to paint the outside and thus didn't make good contact. Scraping it out with a toothpick and cleaning with some isopropyl fixed it.
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Mine has not arrived yet. Hmm does not sound good as I’d not expect the PSU to hum not under load. Good info on the stand too. Your seeing some of the QA issues there for sure.
It’s hard to say if the station is bad based on that but others have not commented on this as far as I have seen as I did skim the whole thread.
I’d be tempted to get it swapped.
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i have three and one of my techs has 2 none of them buzz here at the office. but do stay away from 1.24 for now i upgrades one and its had all sorts of odd things here and there. hopefully they release an update soon i hate that we cant go back to a previous firmware.
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Speaking of calibration, the calibration menu on 1.23 seems broken for me. Entering measured values for each temperature point, clicking OK, then returning to the calibration menu resets all of the entered values.
My copy came with version 1.19, and the calibration menu behaves just like yours. The actual temperature values will not be saved. I wonder if this is normal for T3A? Anyone?
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What version firmware did your T3A originally come with?
I unfortunately didnt look before. But it was making the buzzing noise before i updated to 1.24. So i figured i just update and see if it fixes things
Regarding the stand, my stand uses a banana style plug to connect to the soldering station itself. That connection should be good. There might be an internal connection inside that is faulty. Maybe the connector is not properly connected to the housing because of paint. I will have to open it and check on it. But i'm gonna wait on an anwser of the shop that sold it to see if they want me to resend it or just give me a refund or whatever.
I also messaged them about the buzzing noise and i'm awaiting an answer on that as well. Maybe they can implement an option to choose with firmware to flash onto the station.
I will keep you guys posted once i get an answer. :)
Edit: I was measuring the stand with my multimeter to check for continuity and measured resistances. I didnt get continuity but a resistance of initially 500 Ohms. I moved that part that swivels and holds the handle back and forth a lot and the resistance kept decreasing. It seems like it rubbed itself free or something and makes better contact. Works just fine now. :)
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Does anyone have a link for a T3A + new style stand + T245 handle + 3cartridges? Aliexpress search results are confusing. I'm looking to get this as my first soldering station kit. Shipping to Canada if it matters.
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you are better off from the prices i have seen to buy the regular one and then buying the stand separate. some of them are charging a lot more then you would pay separate. the stand can be found for around 35$ and the normal style kit for 105-130 depending on where you live (im in the usa)
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Does anyone have a link for a T3A + new style stand + T245 handle + 3cartridges? Aliexpress search results are confusing. I'm looking to get this as my first soldering station kit. Shipping to Canada if it matters.
I dont think there is a seller that sells the station with only the new stand included and not the more "flimsy" looking one. Like mastershake said its probably best to get the base set and buy the extra stand. :)
I bought my station + the new stand from this seller on aliexpress. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.49164c4dPfXKUf (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003188761354.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.49164c4dPfXKUf)
The easy100fix store seems trustworthy. I messaged them about my problems and i'm now working with them over whatsapp to sort them out :)
Base set comes with the soldering station itself, the T245 handle and 3 cartridges. You can buy the new stand there as well. I also bought 2 genuine JBC cartridges locally in germany. I read that that knockoff ones arent as good as the real deal (obviously) and that the tips are very small. I dont really do very fine soldering so i bought 2 in more reasonable sizes for my uses.
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new update to fix the issues with the last one:
1.25 (2022-01-08)
1.Solve the problem of garbled characters displayed on the home screen;
1.解决主界面显示乱码问题;
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Thanks! Again, I'll give Aixun credit for overall good firmware support. But I should have listened to my own advice and never upgraded past 1.23. The new screen is more of a curiosity than necessary. If you're already on 1.23, there really isn't a good reason to upgrade past it.
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we got more in at the shop today (ordered a dozen of them). they work so well honestly the guys had me order in some to keep on hand and a few wanted some to take home. 2 of my guys have been using them all day every day for over 2 months now and not a single complaint yet from them one guy said he hasn't touched his jbc since then. but the new ones we got today have light bleed from the lcd in the upper right corner on all of them. one has a really bright spot that bleeds out well into the screen. im going to try to get that specific one replaced you can see it even in a brighter room it washes out that side of the screen. the others you can only really see the light bleeding in a darker room in the upper corner. also looks like maybe a different panel in the newer ones the colors are a bit more faded on them compared to the older ones. another one had some really small nicks in the case on the top like it was dropped at the factory on the ground and they used it anyway. its only cosmetic and i did get a discount on them so not to big of a deal but still. but the original 5 total we got months ago seem to have better qc then the newest ones do. the psu also is a bit more sloppy on the newest ones that came in. not terrible but more glue and crooked components things like that
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That brings up an interesting question- how would you go about replacing the screen if needed? After looking at SteveyG's tear down video, and poking around on AliExpress, this is probably a good place to start.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829704426.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.12.4602d2591kPFvs (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829704426.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.12.4602d2591kPFvs)
It's the same 3.5 inch screen, same white borders, but without actually looking inside, I can't say if it's a direct replacement. But the dealer (JR E-Shop) seems to be up to his eyeballs in screens and probably has the correct one if that isn't it.
QC may be another issue though. Having had to replace the screen on my TS80, these vendors don't seem to actually know/care if their products are functioning properly. The feedback for the vendor I ordered my replacement screen had a lot of people reporting dead pixels. So I ordered 3 of them (they were $1.88 each, so no big deal). The first one worked fine, and I (hopefully) have 2 more spares. At most, it looks like a replacement screen for a T3A/B would be $7. But are you going to have to order multiples to get a properly working one?
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I am thinking about buying the T3A for personal hobby use. I have several T12 irons that I really like, but I build flashlights and soldering to large MCPCB's on copper heat sink pills can be a real challenge with a T12 iron. I am located in the USA and would like to find a trusted seller here. It looks like injuredgadgets.com is located in the USA, are they reliable?
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injured is fine to deal with. they do only sell the 245 version.
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https://youtu.be/auCu-JZe4wY
Another YouTube review. Other than the large overshoot when doing the sponge test seems like a pretty good system for the money. To test the maximum power output would be better to set a low temperature on the tip like 105c degrees and stick it into a known quantity of water and measure the temperature rise.
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I received my T3A today and started to play. I ordered with the decent stand and I will be reviewing properly in a few weeks once I have had more time in it. Did a good few hours on it today though and I am impressed so far.
Quality of the unit is really nice apart from the rotary encoder. It feels a weak point and the knob also rubs on the back of the panel. (An annoyance more than anything)
Electricity it’s passed every test with Earth and IR ect but not stripped it yet to see build internally is like. One thing i have noted is I am seeing much higher than I’d like Earth continuity to the outside of the front Jack plug. Getting a few Kohm there but the 4th pin clockwise in the connector is earthed fine, I’m guessing the plug/Jack housing is not well earthed.
On powering up mine arrived in Chinese but was easy to change. Menus are fairly straight forward but again another annoyance/quirk is the encoder works as you would expect to change the temperate with clockwise being up however this behaviour follows into the menu with anti close wise in the menu being down the list, it’s not what your brain expects.
Today I did a power jack change on a laptop at 280c and 24 bullet connectors among other things on large drone build at 350c and nothing gave it any issues at all, I was actually surprised how well it did the larger bullet connectors even with the a fairly small tip. It’s impressively fast to get to temp and it’s ready to go before I get to the board most of the times I tried today even from room temp. Mine has shipped with the 1.23fw and it has the massive overshoot like mentioned, sometimes as much as 60c but it does very quickly drop to the desired set temp. In use having been watching the screen at no point other than in warm up have I seen the power go over 10% either. Even sinking heat into a large board it seems to just be fine. The tips supplied are just not big enough to put any really stress on the unit as far as I have see.
The 245 handle is really nice with the blue being plastic. Iv not fitted the foam and I’m not sure I’ll need to as Iv felt any heat I’m concerned about so far.
I have noticed at the lower power levels I am hearing a slight buzz from the handle at times. It’s very quiet but it is there. Again nothing I have any concerns over.
A last thing to mention is the form factor is not great. While the unit is high quality it’s shape and form is not ideal for bench use. It sits so low it’s not really at the ideal angle for normal use. I’m going to try and 3D print a stand for it and get the front up. It’s just too low however you also can’t just angle it up with something as the power cable hits the surface as it’s so low. It needs to come up front and back to add angle. Also it really needs a front power switch or even one on the top. Having to reach around the back is a faff and again not ideal.
Overall so far I’m really pleased with the unit. It need time and a lot more use before I can say I’m 100% happy but for $130 or so with the decent stands it’s a bargain.
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Quality of the unit is really nice apart from the rotary encoder. It feels a weak point and the knob also rubs on the back of the panel.
any chance we can get the encoder spec at some point? it would be nice to know what to order for a replacement. for example we found a bournes encoder for the ksger t12 stations.
maybe next time somebody gets in there and does a teardown. no big hurry or anything
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Yea I have a look when I tear mine down. It’s just feels loose with a wobble on the shaft. Not solid if you get my drift. However that could also be the knob.
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yeah totally man. those dodgy chinese encoders. it is something recurring which keeps coming up again and again. not the first time its happened
wooley, loose or missed steps. or double clicks. of course not everyone has such issue. or maybe cleaning it can help? by spraying a contact cleaner in there. however that isnt going to fix a defective one
i cannot remember who it was who recommended the bournes brand of encoder. must have been over on one of the previous ksger t12 thread
we need to know the package dimensions / footprint. shaft diameter. and number of steps per rotation. to then feed into a parametric search criteria on digikey
bournes should sells the same encoder family different sizes versions / specs. for the different most common types.... but specifically the reason i ask right now is because of parts shortages. for sometimes will be out of stock for several months.
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Expecting my T3A soon, can't wait!
If I hear you well... if the unit shipped with firmware 1.19 it is recommended to keep it and not upgrade to 1.25, correct?
Is there any must do upgrade (better earth... etc) or it's pretty much good to go as is?
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Mine shipped with 1.23.
I was live streaming tonight and plugged it in to the app and it upgraded to 1.25 automatically.
Don’t like that feature one bit.
So now I have 1.25 lol.
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Does anyone have a link for a T3A + new style stand + T245 handle + 3cartridges? Aliexpress search results are confusing. I'm looking to get this as my first soldering station kit. Shipping to Canada if it matters.
Sadly I don't think this combo exists. I don't know why they bother shipping with the folded steel stand.
easy100fix Store has been excellent so far, so I'd recommend them: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AKt4pQ
They sell the T3A + T245 + 3 cartridges, you have to get the better T245 base as a separate item, but they have it on that page too.
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Expecting my T3A soon, can't wait!
If I hear you well... if the unit shipped with firmware 1.19 it is recommended to keep it and not upgrade to 1.25, correct?
Is there any must do upgrade (better earth... etc) or it's pretty much good to go as is?
For soldering, it works perfectly even on the really early versions.
The lack of downgrade option is a bit disappointing really.
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Hello All,
i'm new here but reading along for a long time now. ;D
Today one good looking T3A arrived and i immediately openend it and had a look around its insides. I already build a Unisolder 5.2 and i'm really happy how the Unisolder performs.
I bought the T3A out of curiosity and maybe as backupstation if the Unisolder needs work or fails :-[. My daughter too started soldering small projects so she will
definitely gets this one. I ordered just the station, because i allready have a t245 clone and one originial t245 from JBC. I would like to connect the clone
to the T3A, i have Gx12-5 connectors here (so no problem on that side) but i cant find the value of the id-resistor for the t245 handle. I have a picture of the pinout from the backside of my
pcb, so connecting it should be hopefully be easy.
Does anybody know the value of that resistor? Is there a bridge in the connector between pins, like in the 936 handle?
Thanks in advance
Uli
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would hope that downgrade is possible with lower level hardware flashing. by hooking up over SWD. although less convenient than the usb port
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Hello All,
i'm new here but reading along for a long time now. ;D
Today one good looking T3A arrived and i immediately openend it and had a look around its insides. I already build a Unisolder 5.2 and i'm really happy how the Unisolder performs.
I bought the T3A out of curiosity and maybe as backupstation if the Unisolder needs work or fails :-[. My daughter too started soldering small projects so she will
definitely gets this one. I ordered just the station, because i allready have a t245 clone and one originial t245 from JBC. I would like to connect the clone
to the T3A, i have Gx12-5 connectors here (so no problem on that side) but i cant find the value of the id-resistor for the t245 handle. I have a picture of the pinout from the backside of my
pcb, so connecting it should be hopefully be easy.
Does anybody know the value of that resistor? Is there a bridge in the connector between pins, like in the 936 handle?
Thanks in advance
Uli
I've just measured the pins on my T245 handle, it's zero ohms between the ID pin and the pin to the right of it when viewed from the back of the PCB
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Does anyone have a link for a T3A + new style stand + T245 handle + 3cartridges? Aliexpress search results are confusing. I'm looking to get this as my first soldering station kit. Shipping to Canada if it matters.
Sadly I don't think this combo exists. I don't know why they bother shipping with the folded steel stand.
easy100fix Store has been excellent so far, so I'd recommend them: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AKt4pQ
They sell the T3A + T245 + 3 cartridges, you have to get the better T245 base as a separate item, but they have it on that page too.
the link you posted the first option is the t3a with new stand but the price is more and its not an "original" kit the seller just changes out the stand it comes with. a few sellers are doing the same thing.
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.
.
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I've just measured the pins on my T245 handle, it's zero ohms between the ID pin and the pin to the right of it when viewed from the back of the PCB
Big thanks to you. 🙂
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Does anyone have a link for a T3A + new style stand + T245 handle + 3cartridges? Aliexpress search results are confusing. I'm looking to get this as my first soldering station kit. Shipping to Canada if it matters.
Sadly I don't think this combo exists. I don't know why they bother shipping with the folded steel stand.
easy100fix Store has been excellent so far, so I'd recommend them: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AKt4pQ
They sell the T3A + T245 + 3 cartridges, you have to get the better T245 base as a separate item, but they have it on that page too.
the link you posted the first option is the t3a with new stand but the price is more and its not an "original" kit the seller just changes out the stand it comes with. a few sellers are doing the same thing.
There were several options there, as you mention with a 'modified' kit, or there's another option which just ships with the metal stand (option 7) and you can order the updated stand separately.
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Hi,
so today i had time and put the TS245 Clone on a connector. Works fine now. :) Again thanks to SteveyG for helping with the pinout.
Pin 1: nc
Pin 2: just bridged to pin 3
Pin 3: red wire / - (yeah red means -, must be a jbc thing???)
Pin 4: green wire / sensor
Pin 5: blue / +
Hope that helps someone. :)
I was positively surprised that the station was calibrated pretty good out of the box.
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I know this has been discussed but.. did anybody actually modified ksger T12 handle to work with T3A? KSGER handles may not be... the best but the tip distance is really nice while AIXUN feels like I'm working from another room... Not really using T12 much but when I have to it's really hard to go AIXUN knowing there's KSGER handle around..
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If I understand correctly, the T245 and T470 handles (and tips) are compatible, which I believe should mean that if I were to acquire a genuine JBC T470 handle (and tips), all I'd need is an adapter between the T3A and JBC pinouts.
I believe I've seen the pinout posted above, which I believe means making the adapter shouldn't be too hard to do.
Anyone care to correct me or perhaps point me to relevant past efforts?
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had the same idea and asked recently. however the biggest problem is that the cartridge resistance is over double. it is 7 ohms (c470) instead of 3 ohms (c245).
why this? well IDK but clearly they have very thin flexible silicone cable to the handle. so to transport all that power without needing thicker gauge wires. this 7 ohm lets jbc double the voltage from 24v to 48v. and keep the same thin wires. but with more power
the implication here is that at 24v the 7 ohm would need a much higher pwm duty cycle. so clearly the no-load heat up time from cold will no longer be only 3 seconds.... perhaps anything up to 6 seconds? which is then similar to a t12
then during actual heat sinking with a large chisel tip. how much pwm duty cycle will be needed to saturate the maximum heat transfer rate at 24v for these larger t470 cartridge being 7ohm? well IDK! but it might be gimped a lot depending how much overhead left remaining in the pwm duty cycle. for example (these are not real numbers, they are a fiction to make the point). but if t245 were typically 40% duty cycle. then over double to 7 ohm would be something around 90% then? ... well that means there is only 10% higher in the duty cycle remaining to deliver 11.1111% extra power transfer to the t470 handle and heat the tip with higher wattage. which does not really sound worth it anymore? if you only gains about 10% extra performance at the same +24v dc...
so then you would also need to raise the voltage too. maybe the existing psu can be tweaked of modded, to get a few extra volts? IDK. and nobody has even looked into that.
and what would be a sufficient voltage, in order to satisfy the maximum heatsinking under load? would it be possible with +36v dc? or is that not high enough? if not then maybe it would need a full +48v. (or at least 40v?). no idea
finally you might hit other unforseen issues. or complications generated from these changes. so it is a considerable more work and investigations. what might be perhaps simpler is to request aixun for this feature. and ask them to make future model t3c. to support just t470 only. or both handle inclusive t245
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Hi all,
Does anyone know where to get an OEM T470 for a reasonable price?
I am using a "480W Adjustable Switching Power Supply" to accomodate
all available JBC clones.
The different supply voltages & maximum currents are made pre-settable.
Thanks in advance,
Frans
[attachimg=1]
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I just bought this T3A combo from them with the upgraded stand. It's now available.
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Looks like there is going to be a new Aixun soldering station soon. It will be 2 ports just like Sugon equivalent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imdd86agYXY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imdd86agYXY)
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damn wish i would have waited to order a dozen of them the prices seem to have dropped across the board on the stations, stands, handles etc
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That combo station looks amazing. Wish I didn't just order a T3B last week! :-(
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Nice! but my T3A and T3B are on the way from China so I guess I'll stick to these ;) But I wish they made a pair of micro-tweezers that work with t3b... That would be great addition to the family...
BTW - anybody purchased their P2408 power supply? Looks interesting but haven't seen any reviews yet...
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Mine shipped with 1.23.
I was live streaming tonight and plugged it in to the app and it upgraded to 1.25 automatically.
Don’t like that feature one bit.
So now I have 1.25 lol.
Yeah, mine auto-updated on me this evening and was really surprised how it just did it on its own upon connection to the software.
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Got mine today. Impression:
Rattling sound inside. Opened the case and it was a small plastic piece broken off somewhere.
Very noticeable handle buzzing sound (once temperature reaches stable)
Foam handle cover already included (blue, same as the handle)
LCD can be hard to read when low and laying flat.
Sleep function works pretty reliably
Default firmware version:1.24
Default language: Chinese
Large temperature overshoot: over 60 degree (from 0 to 350). I am guessing they use fairly aggressive PID parameters to reach the temperature set point
The new style stand is OK. Probably looks better in photo. Mostly made of plastic.
User manual says input voltage 110/220. When I placed the order I choose the 110v option
Audio is on by default. but can be turned off pretty easily. The UI is not the most intuitive
Encoder keeps rubbing against front panel. They could done a better job for that part
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Again, their quality control is just plain bad. But their firmware support is overall pretty good. There have been a couple of mistakes here and there. If anyone still has 1.23 on their units, I'd really never connect it to the app ever again. Just uninstall it and don't look back. 1.25 is fine, it pretty much works the same as 1.23 with the added (and unnecessary) graph function. If the broken plastic floating around in your unit is black, it's probably from the inductor. That's been reported a couple of times. The ringing in the handles seems to vary. Some units do it, some don't. Some people have reported that a FW update fixed it, but those were older FWs before 1.23. If yours is doing it on 1.24, it will probably still do it on 1.25. The only change between the two is fixing the messed up icons. No one has yet to definitively identify the cause. I got lucky, my unit was fairly well soldered, clean inside, no screen issues, nothing rattling around, and no ringing handle. I'll eventually replace the cheap Chinese electrolytics on the power supply with Nichicons, and call it done. For the money, these are amazing stations. Too bad it's a bit of a crap shoot with QC. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised Dave doesn't get involved with the company. With all the work he's done with the multimeters, a good soldering station seems like a no-brainer.
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its odd out of 20+ of them i have ordered i only ever got ones with the green handles and not one had any issues except for some light bleed in the upper right corner of the screen on a few of them. i wonder if its some that come from one place or another specifically that have worse qc
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its odd out of 20+ of them i have ordered
so through which reseller did you buy them?
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some of them came from china from "tempered store" and the rest came from injured gadgets in the usa. so far like i said other than the light bleeding on a few the rest are all working fine no loose parts etc. one did have some marks in the finish on the case they were minor though. one other one the power plug on the back is a bit wobbly but otherwise nothing else. my guys use them even in the shop for months now. one guy bought two himself for him to use as home he liked them enough.
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Are you using the aixun with jbc tips or Chinese tips?
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some of them came from china from "tempered store" and the rest came from injured gadgets in the usa. so far like i said other than the light bleeding on a few the rest are all working fine no loose parts etc. one did have some marks in the finish on the case they were minor though. one other one the power plug on the back is a bit wobbly but otherwise nothing else. my guys use them even in the shop for months now. one guy bought two himself for him to use as home he liked them enough.
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for most things original jbc ones. but we do use the knock off ones for some things also they def do not work as well as genuine tips do thats for sure. not the worst things you can use but not great either. with genuine tips the system performs directly head to head with the real jbc stations every time.
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Don't blame all broken inductors on manufacturer - likely many broken parts are due to transit/delivery and not because of QC of manufacturer. But you should blame manufacturer for not using enough elastic adhesive!
Clone tips perform ok but one of mine clone tip did already died just after couple of weeks of use @ 300 C (320 C actual 350 C overshoots). This tip was working fine for many hours but eventually heater went open when I turned station on from cold. Station works fine with other tips after this. Let's hope this is not a feature and I just got bad sample.
Controller is also not very smart - when tip failed - unit displayed 100% full power forever. Controller should know that 25 C tip temperature with full power after 5 minutes is somewhat unusual :-//.
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Hi there, long time follower of the thread and plenty of experience with JBC and now looking for a cheaper version. I've ordered the T3A yesterday because it seems promising but I would like to change the capacitors immediately while I'm performing the 'real' quality control. Does anyone has the specs of the caps so I can already order some Panasonic/Nichicon/... replacements? I'll report back when I've thoroughly tested the station. Thanks in advance!
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Eltax posted this in reply #189. These are the values. But the actual dimensions of the caps aren't listed. Which is important because the larger ones don't have much room around them. Width-wise anyways, there is more vertical room. Not sure about the lead spacing either. A part number for the inductor would be nice too, in case someone needs to replace theirs. [attachimg=1]
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Thanks. But indeed, the dimensions matter. I have to order some caps anyway so I'll see if I can guess them right ;D.
It may take 10 days before the T3A arrives but then I'll post the correct dimensions and maybe even the right replacements.
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Wait a day. I was kind of hoping someone would chime in with the dimensions, but I need to do this too. When I get home in a couple of hours, I'll open up mine and measure them.
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Thanks in advance! It will be helpful for others too. Maybe you could even find the part number for the inductor.
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Aixun T3A capacitor sizes.
C1
82 uf 400v
18.3mm Wide X 27mm high
7.5mm Lead spacing.
C2
10 uf 50v
5mm wide x 12mm high
3mm Lead spacing.
C7 And C8
1000 uf 35v
10.2mm wide x 21.10mm high
5mm Lead spacing.
C10
470 uf 35v
10.1mm wide x 16.6mm high
5mm Lead spacing.
Width and Height are approximate, measured fast first time I opened unit.
Just replaced my caps last weekend, replacements had absolutely no issues ordering at those dimensions.
Keep the width close, don't exceed around 30mm or so in height and you'll be just fine.
I'd post up part #'s I used but I had some here and lately I have to take the best that's in stock and not necessarily what I want lol. Also I used a 250v cap for C1, as i'm in the US and have no intention on running it on 220v.
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Also since Im here,
I heard the "buzz" from the unit that might be like others have described. Usually i don't pay much attention but I did hear it. On my unit definitely isn't coming from the handle, its coming from the unit. Its a high frequency "humm" or "buzz" when its driving the heater. I can clearly hear it and see when the display adds 3% or whatever power in pulses to maintain the temp. Mine is not loud in the least and isn't a bother for me and honestly I wouldn't have noticed but I was listening carefully to see if I could hear something. It may not be the same noise as the others are experiencing, but I do hear something.
I'm on 1.22 firmware.
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yup i only hear it in a very quiet room and if im paying attention. otherwise its not loud enough to hear on any of the units i have in the shop. i have handled and tested more then 20 like i said. one of them is a very little bit louder then the other but still nothing i can hear if like the tv is on or the radio is on low in the back round i have to turn things off to notice it.
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I'd consider upgrading 1.22 to 1.25. 1.23 was perfect, no issues at all, and no unnecessary features. 1.25 now works the exact same as 1.23, but has the unnecessary graphing function. Not a big deal, I never use it. Does anyone with a T3A that buzzes also have a set of EMC near field probes for their scope? At least figure out where exactly it comes from. Any chance it's the buzzer? Just because it's disabled in the options may not mean it's entirely disabled. Maybe inductively coupled?
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An infantile question: why do you replace the caps..?
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Cheap caps are used and are not reliable so it's better to replace them asap to prevent problems. Bad caps are a common cause of problems in those Chinese electronics.
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The station has been operating for two months, so far everything is fine. There is a problem with any Chinese electronics - this is a fact, but it depends on the operating time. The problem with capacitors will appear during active work in 1-1.5 years, but for now do not concentrate on this. There will be a problem - change.
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I ordered in some replacements just to have on hand but im not going to rush in to change them. ill just hang onto them in case there is an issue. so far all of my units are working fine i dont see the need to yet
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I'm just taken the opportunity to replace them while the unit is open. It's not mandatory to replace them immediately of course...
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well yeah def if i end up opening one again for some reason ill change them out. but not gonna waste time doing it like i said if i dont have to. or if im bored one day lol ill go ahead and open em up.
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I'm having issues updating the device...
I've win10 (clean install), installed their application, updated it. Then installed the driver (ft). Unfortunately every time I connect the station via usb on the side the computer reboots...
Any ideas..? The station is not connected to mains power, just to the pc via usb..
I also tried installing "generic" ftdi driver - in which case the computer doesn't reboot but the station isn't recognised (in device manager or in the aixun application)
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is it an amd am4 motherboard? have you tried ports of different usb controller chip? (if 2nd usb chip exits on the motherboard)
otherwise it maybe the station has a short in the PD after usbc PD handshake? but perhap it should not behave exactly in those ways for that situation. idk. try connecting station to a different PC?
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I tried all usb ports I have on the PC... It's intel core5 CPU... And one more thing - the PC only has "standard" USB (ie. USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports - no usbc)...
I don't have any other PC though (I've a few macs and even tried it with VMWare running windows but it doesn't get detected at all)...
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Did you test it with another cable? Sometimes those cheap cables may give strange problems.
Did you try to boot your pc with the device already connected?
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Yep - tested with several cables... Booting with the station connected doesn't go far - reboots before login screen..
I think it's the driver - I'm getting "system thread exception not handled" on blue screen of death... Which is strange as it's fresh install of W10. Maybe it's USB chipset that's "not compatible" with aixun driver...
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Did the driver install correctly? Does it show up in the device manager? Maybe reinstall it with Win7 compatibility? For whatever reason, I've had a few things that didn't like Win10, and running it with Win7 compatibility worked.
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I've stepped thru the menu (T3A, V1.25) and found 'dormancy show'. It says you can add some user display for dormancy mode, but howto? In the Aixun app, I see some custom settings for colors and fonts. Has someone tried this killer feature?
edit:
ok, got it. You can just enter some text with custom color and font, no custom image.
Not very usefull... And it looks like it switches only every second time to the custom screen.
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Hi everyone, new to this forum, i am also looking forward to this soldering station, however i wanted to know if some of you (guess it was discussed before, but couldn't find it in the 17 pages of discussion) is aware if this soldering station will have some tip profile management like KSGER station does, so independant for each tip type ?
That would make this station even more attractive for me.
Thanks
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no this one does not have the tip management like the ksger does. it senses which handle you use based on the resistance inside the handle otherwise it doesnt know a knife tip from a conical.
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Just ordered a Aixun T3A as my first iron based on SteveyG videos, i briefly had a 888d but returned it when i read they're not good for pc motherboards that soak up heat.
any suggested pre flight tests when it arrives?
funnily enough i found if ya get the old stand bundle and the new stand separate it was a few dollers cheaper than the new stand bundle kit, which means free old stand for 2nd iron tweezer situations, well if this one doesn't die on me.
(don't know how the conversion is for other country's but links:
t3a https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003327781905.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003327781905.html) with gst $186.86aud
newer t3a stand https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788350217.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788350217.html) $42.66 aud
Are the clone tips still hit or miss? for Australia branded clone tips linked earlier in the thread are $25-$30ea but genuine tips locally $40ea+ so a 10 to 15 difference aient much unless i get nonamed around $15ea or cheaper at $11ish ea in 4x6x or10x packs but they do include a lot of undesirable tips.
Locally i found 6x genuine tips for $165 or $27.5ea https://www.oritech.com.au/jbc-c245-advanced-soldering-tip-kit.html (https://www.oritech.com.au/jbc-c245-advanced-soldering-tip-kit.html) I'm a 5 minute drive from this place.
that'd make the clones kind of pointless, although that lot includes 2x conicals and correct me if I'm wrong aren't conicals rarely used by folks here compared to wedge/horseshoe types? Ill contact em see if they can swap the 2 with others, speaking of any suggested tips? ill still try to use up the included ones for however long they last.
is a calibration tool required? reading through this thread seems clone tips are 20-30c lower which seems fine for most applications?
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definately get the genuine tips for sure. As for getting a calibration device... that would be most cheap on the RST FG-100 from aliexpress. IDK if you really need it or not but for sure spend the money on genuine tips above all else / above any other accessory. is the best way to spend any extra dollars after budgeting on the main station itself
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no this one does not have the tip management like the ksger does. it senses which handle you use based on the resistance inside the handle otherwise it doesnt know a knife tip from a conical.
Are there different profiles for different types of handles then? Or is there only a single temperature adjustment?
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What size is the 24v DC barrel jack on the back?
I'm looking to make a fume extractor based on the 24v jack and then automate it based on the on/off signal from the base.
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nope. you do have three presets but thats about it it will adjust based on which handle is plugged in power wise but there is nothing per each handle type. either way it works great for the money. i do tend to use my ksger with the custom firmware for t12 stuff though and i use these for 245 handles most of the time. if i dont feel like switching stations (i have them setup pretty much right next to each other so not a big deal) ill use these for t12 in some cases. where this station most excels at though imo is 245 tips.
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Three presets is already something let's say.
I am wondering what exactly is the difference between 245 and T12 tip technology. I have to read some material i am really clueless about those new soldering station technologies, i am still using an old 50W Weller station, but now i am done, especially digging the whole internet to find good tips for the LR21 handle.
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Just received the Aixun T3A with a T245 handle and the new stand. I've bought 2 genuine JBC tips separately as well, a hoof/well type tip (drag soldering) and a high mass 5mm chisel tip for large copper planes soldering and de-soldering.
Two foam sleeves have been supplied with the station, I've ordered also a pair in case it wasn't supplied, I'll keep that as spare. Getting it on was a bit of a hassle. In the end I've used a piece of plastic sheet 0.27mm thick, cut a strip and rolled in into a spiral with a point, then slipped the foam sleeve on it, pushed the handle in the wide end of the plastic until the foam was in place, then removed the plastic sheet.
I've measured all 5 tips using a multi meter with k type probe that came with the meter. I'm probably really lucky that all tips are within 3 degrees of what the display says it should be :) I've set it to 350 degrees and measured between 347 to 352*C depending on the tip (wetted with 40/60 solder).
All the tips overshoot on display around 30-35 degrees. When measuring the chisel tip, it overshoots 50 degrees to 400*C when setpoint was 350*C when measured with the k type probe. It gradually drops back to 350 over 10-20 seconds.
The 5mm chisel tip takes 5 seconds from cold (20 degrees) to heat up. The smaller tips take about 3 seconds. The unit came with the 1.25 firmware. The firmware was set to Chinese but it's not hard to set it to English once I knew how the interface worked (not very intuitive but doable).
De-soldering electrolyte caps from an old dead mainboard was a lot easier compared to my Aoyue Int 866 unit, which has a 60W iron. The tip temperature of the 866 drops quickly when touching a lead connected to a large ground plane. You can feel it sticks to the solder. With the T3A it wetted immediately, took about 5-10 seconds for the heat to reach the other side of the board and the lead came out without a problem.
I've wicked some solder off an FR1 perf board. No pads lifted and the pads were easy to clean up. De-soldered a small DPAK from the same mainboard using some extra solder and came off pretty easily. It makes a big difference in how easy it heats up components and passes the heat through the component to the other pads, making it easy to de-solder.
I'm not sold on the stand for swapping tips, it's made of plastic. I might put some copper tape in the hole to prevent tips from melting the plastic when it drops in the hole. The silicone protection thingy for the metal curls to wipe the tip doesn't really work for me. It also seems not to remove solder as effectively as the one from the Aoyue 866.
As for noise, I can hear it humming if I hold it right next to my ear when heating up from cold at full power. The noise comes from within the handle it seems, not the tip. Could be that the connector holding the cartridge in place resonates due to the current passing through it, perhaps even sparking? In normal use I don't hear the hum.
The 866 and T3A are similarly priced (215 vs 180 euro), but you get a pre-heater and hot air (both 400W) as well. I'll be keeping the 866 when I need hot air, pre-heater or need a different tip ready for use or use it to de-solder smd caps and resistors.
All in all I'm very pleased with it so far, this will open up a lot more demanding soldering stuff I can do with it and the quality of the joints should be a lot better as well.
I want to thank all the posters in this thread, a lot of valuable information to base your decision on to buy this or not and what the caveats are.
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I was about to post the same as imqqmi because I've received my T3A (V1.25) too and with the new stand.
[attach=1]
I also bought two extra real JBC 245 tips and I'm glad I did because they are way better then the ones included with the station.
The humming is clearly present in the handle and the station itself but not quite annoying, but still audible. It's humming every second/2seconds so not only during startup.
The soldering quality of the station itself is fine but the inductor was broken which I secured with hot glue because it was still functional. While the station was open I've already replaced the caps and soldered the faston terminals because they were very loose and the wrong size. [attach=2]
I didn't lift the front panel because I've disconnected the connector from the rear.
These are the caps I ordered which fit perfectly:
C1- 82 uf 400v --> RUBYCON 400BXW82MEFR18X25 Electrolytic Capacitor, Miniature, 82 µF, 400 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 12000 hours @ 105°C
C2 - 10 uf 50v --> NICHICON UPM1H100MDD1TD Electrolytic Capacitor, 10 µF, 50 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 2000 hours @ 105°C
C7 and C8 - 1000 uf 35v --> RUBYCON 35PK1000MEFCT810X20 Electrolytic Capacitor, Miniature, 1000 µF, 35 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 2000 hours @ 85°C
C10 - 470 uf 35v --> NICHICON UPW1V471MPD1TD Electrolytic Capacitor, 470 µF, 35 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 5000 hours @ 105°C
New caps: [attach=3]
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I also saw that the hardware version is now 1.2 instead of 1.1 like the one SteveyG posted.
[attach=1]
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huh i wonder what the differences are between the 1.1 and 1.2? especially since they seem to take the same firmware they have not released separate firmware for the different versions. im curious what the revision was for. ill have to double check mine again i think they are all v1.1
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huh i wonder what the differences are between the 1.1 and 1.2? especially since they seem to take the same firmware they have not released separate firmware for the different versions. im curious what the revision was for. ill have to double check mine again i think they are all v1.1
I'll see if I can compare them tomorrow. At first glance they seem the same.
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After a quick look: [attach=1]
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huh i wonder why the extra d8. and seems like the fix the one kind of botch up they had on the v1 with a new layout otherwise they seem the same from that. ill have to pull a few apart tomm we have here. the guys actually use these daily in the shop they have for a few months now without any issues. one even brought his jbc home to keep this on his desk here instead lol. its so odd that none of the ones we have had seem to have any significant humming from the handles at all (over 20 of them). ill swap the caps when i open them also i wasnt going to but may as well if they are opened up.
will a 25mm cap fit c7 and c8? i just checked and the panasonics i have are 25mm if not ill have to order a few more. thoughts? appreciate it
edit just opened a few of the ones i have here they are all 1.1 and i think the 25mm should fit. ill pull a board out tomm and measure it
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They successfully redesigned that part to avoid the former botch up and even the soldering is of a higher quality. When I have the time I'll check out the reason for the new D8.
25mm for C7/8 will not be a problem because the C1 82 µF, 400 V next to them is already 25mm.
EDIT: after a look at my pictures it seems D8 is connected with the source of the mosfet and the -ground.
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hmm i wonder if we should add that to v1.1 in the circuit i wonder why they needed it to be there i wish i had a 1.2v board to check out. i may have to order a newer one but who is to say ill get a 1.2 now or they will send the older 1.1
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I bought mine on AliExpress at the 'easy100fix Store', so maybe they have the latest versions.
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thats where some of ours came from one i just got last week i checked was still v1.1 so right now it seems to be hit and miss. i may wait another month or more so hopefully the v1.1 stock is all gone. the rest came from a us seller wholesale
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The new D8 on v1.2 is just protection, and prevents Q3 from shorting to ground. As per earlier discussions, Q3 is totally adequate, but if it fails, you'll burn out your tip. Functionally, I'm not seeing a difference between V1.1 and 1.2. Now if Q3 is beefier in V1.2, it's a QoL improvement, but still the same functionally.
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Or it's reverse bias protection, to keep Q3 stable at higher temperatures? Not sure where the trace is going.
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Or it's reverse bias protection, to keep Q3 stable at higher temperatures? Not sure where the trace is going.
When I open it again I'll take HD pictures. From what I see now : U4+ --> source Q3 --> D8 (Schottky SS24?) --> ground-
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i may see if i can add it into the circuit on ours if its actually for extra protection.
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I've done some actual soldering for a couple of days and really like it so far! There's one thing about the supplied tips, the bent conical tip. When wetting the tip the solder seems to creep up to the wider part of the tip and can't get solder to stick on a solder joint. Anyone else experienced this? I'll buy a geniune jbc tip, probably a bent chisel tip. Northridgefix seems to like that kind of tip for small joints like micro usb pins and hdmi ports. I used the 3mm hoof/well type tip, even though it works, I got solder on the usb connector case. Easily wicked off but I'd prefer a smaller tip.
I used the 5mm chisel for desoldering caps with both pins heated up at the same time, works a treat! It came in handy recapping an amp with large copper planes too. No pads lifted, no burning pcb etc. Nice joints and easy to clean up.
Did some drag soldering of a tssop package with the hoof tip. Need some more practice, the well needs to be abundantly filled with solder. Some pins just didn't flow on to the pads.
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Unsure if others have done this but I ordered a genuine JBC handle
Differences I could spot:
- Connector had to be changed out
- Cable on the JBC has a slightly different feel
- JBC comes with foam to go over handle (x2 actually)
- JBC comes with a rubber grommet type thing that goes on the front of the tip to prevent smoke going in I guess
Cost $72 so not sure it was worth it, but I wanted as close as possible to the JBC feel without actually paying JBC prices.
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I've done some actual soldering for a couple of days and really like it so far! There's one thing about the supplied tips, the bent conical tip. When wetting the tip the solder seems to creep up to the wider part of the tip and can't get solder to stick on a solder joint. Anyone else experienced this? I'll buy a geniune jbc tip, probably a bent chisel tip. Northridgefix seems to like that kind of tip for small joints like micro usb pins and hdmi ports. I used the 3mm hoof/well type tip, even though it works, I got solder on the usb connector case. Easily wicked off but I'd prefer a smaller tip.
I used the 5mm chisel for desoldering caps with both pins heated up at the same time, works a treat! It came in handy recapping an amp with large copper planes too. No pads lifted, no burning pcb etc. Nice joints and easy to clean up.
Did some drag soldering of a tssop package with the hoof tip. Need some more practice, the well needs to be abundantly filled with solder. Some pins just didn't flow on to the pads.
They don't wet well when new. Just buy some JBC tips, a world of difference... . I really like the C245-912 (hoof) and C245-785 (barrel) for the usual soldering. (https://www.eleshop.nl/jbc-soldeerpunt.html (https://www.eleshop.nl/jbc-soldeerpunt.html))
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Unsure if others have done this but I ordered a genuine JBC handle
Differences I could spot:
- Connector had to be changed out
- Cable on the JBC has a slightly different feel
- JBC comes with foam to go over handle (x2 actually)
- JBC comes with a rubber grommet type thing that goes on the front of the tip to prevent smoke going in I guess
Cost $72 so not sure it was worth it, but I wanted as close as possible to the JBC feel without actually paying JBC prices.
Why? The difference is not that big. And mine (T3A) came also with two foams for the handle (also available on AE and BG).
I just wonder if the little rubber grommet is sold separately, because I believe it fits the handle of the Aixun.
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I just wonder if the little rubber grommet is sold separately, because I believe it fits the handle of the Aixun.
They are available separately.
JBC Part# OB2000
Sealing Plug
Don't know if id go out of my way to buy one, but then I don't do production soldering.
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If you're using active flux, sure. It probably helps. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. Plus, that seal from JBC probably costs as much as a replacement handle from AliExpress...
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The JBC handle with 2 foams and 2 plugs costs $70. Yeah it's expensive but it isn't nearly at the same level as their soldering station
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On another note. The Aixun is conveniently split into 2 parts. The power supply board and the rest, correct?
So in theory you could completely rip out the power supply and say power it with a Mean Well LRS-200-24, it safety and such were a serious concern.
Comparatively the LRS-200-24 is almost double the size of the Aixun power supply which makes me have very, very strong doubts about its ability to truly deliver 200w continuously. Almost certainly that 200w isn't 100% duty cycle
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Almost certainly that 200w isn't 100% duty cycle
I completely agree, but It would also be very rare to use the full power during several minutes so even with an 10%ED it would be sufficient.
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If you're using active flux, sure. It probably helps. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. Plus, that seal from JBC probably costs as much as a replacement handle from AliExpress...
7,5€ for 10 pieces
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Well... That was half sarcasm, and half a serious poke at JBC's prices. As for the power supply, go back to page 8. There's plenty of discussions there about it. It seems to be a 120w supply that can be overdriven to about 190w, but really shouldn't be sustained. No one has reported it reaching 200w in practical use.
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Almost certainly that 200w isn't 100% duty cycle
I completely agree, but It would also be very rare to use the full power during several minutes so even with an 10%ED it would be sufficient.
Oh yeah for sure 100% duty cycle is unrealistic. With all that said, safety is likely something more people would be worried about. But just for fun I looked at possible alternative power supplies and this looks like a possible candidate: https://www.amazon.com/PPS-200-24-Open-Frame-Switching-Supply-Single/dp/B005T6LRW0 (https://www.amazon.com/PPS-200-24-Open-Frame-Switching-Supply-Single/dp/B005T6LRW0)
I already bought caps to replace the Aixun PSU caps with proper branded kind, so I don't plan to make this change but if the PSU goes, I'll very likely try to get MeanWell PPS series into it.
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Mean Well is a good company because of the quality control. Quality control is Aixun's weakness. The power supply in the T3A is perfectly adequate, if all goes well. Some questionable soldering in some units, as well as a screw floating around inside, a couple of cracked inductors, and cheap Chinese electrolytics are the (potential) issues. Clean up anything that needs it, look out for bad solder joints, and replace the electrolytics within the first 6 months or so (depending on its workload), and the quality control problem is solved. Eltax did a load test FLIR image posted on page 13, 24v/6a, and it failed after 2 hours. The smaller heat sink and the mosfet attached to it got the hottest, and was probably the first thing to fail. That's an unrealistic situation the put the unit in. Replace the power supply if you want to, but no one has reported any failures so far, and some are used in production work. Q3 on the control board was the only other potential issue. If it goes bad, the tip will burn out. There was some talk about using something beefier, but it really hasn't been an issue either. Improve whatever you want to, but the general consensus seems to be it's a great unit that may need a little attention.
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Mean Well is a good company because of the quality control. Quality control is Aixun's weakness. The power supply in the T3A is perfectly adequate, if all goes well. Some questionable soldering in some units, as well as a screw floating around inside, a couple of cracked inductors, and cheap Chinese electrolytics are the (potential) issues. Clean up anything that needs it, look out for bad solder joints, and replace the electrolytics within the first 6 months or so (depending on its workload), and the quality control problem is solved. Eltax did a load test FLIR image posted on page 13, 24v/6a, and it failed after 2 hours. The smaller heat sink and the mosfet attached to it got the hottest, and was probably the first thing to fail. That's an unrealistic situation the put the unit in. Replace the power supply if you want to, but no one has reported any failures so far, and some are used in production work. Q3 on the control board was the only other potential issue. If it goes bad, the tip will burn out. There was some talk about using something beefier, but it really hasn't been an issue either. Improve whatever you want to, but the general consensus seems to be it's a great unit that may need a little attention.
Have to strongly disagree with the "Mean Well has good quality control is what makes them a good company". Their designs are very good. I have bought several of their SMPS so far and there is a lot more than just quality control. They also only use Japanese capacitors on their units I've bought recently. Not even Siglent are doing that. They use high quality transformers. It may have been a different story a few years ago. But the latest PSUs I've bought for 3d printers (LRS series) are superb quality. There isn't a single cheap thing on the PCBs and the PCB revision date codes are very recent so they are almost certainly continuing to improve them
As for the replacing it, as I said in my post, I'm not going to replace it now, but if it gives up I will.
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I agree with Ungolian, quality control is Aixun's weakness and that's why I opened it and checked out the internals the moment I got it. But it looks like they've learned and the soldering is better now, no loose screws or solder. I've replaced directly all the caps, fixated a broken inductor (transport damage) but that's it.
It seems that I have a newer version (V1.2) and I have an extra diode D8 which seems an extra protection for Q3. That last one has to be verified yet when I have the time to reopen it.
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Hello.
A week ago I bought an Aaixun T3A soldering station complete with c245 handle. Firmware version 1.25
Three days later, a malfunction appeared - the station stopped switching to sleep mode when the soldering iron handle was placed on the stand.
All other functions work. Connects to a computer via USB.
You can read the firmware version and serial number.
I reset the controller to factory settings. Did not help.
Moreover, the controller sees that the handle is installed on a stand - this is noticeable from the power graph. But the temperature does not decrease, but remains the one that I set. Sleep does not appear on the screen
It is likely that this is a software bug. I can't flash the new software - version 1.25 is the latest.
What else can I do?
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the station stopped switching to sleep mode when the soldering iron handle was placed on the stand.
All other functions work. Connects to a computer via USB.
You can read the firmware version and serial number.
I reset the controller to factory settings. Did not help.
Moreover, the controller sees that the handle is installed on a stand - this is noticeable from the power graph. But the temperature does not decrease, but remains the one that I set. Sleep does not appear on the screen
It is likely that this is a software bug. I can't flash the new software - version 1.25 is the latest.
What else can I do?
I believe there is a configuration option to disable the sleep mode.
Are you sure you didn't change the configuration options?
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I wrote that I reset the settings to factory settings.
Wrote a letter to the developer (manufacturer). Attached video. While the Chinese are silent.
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I'd like to replace the electrolytic capacitors, too.
Am I right in assuming that the (easy) removal of the the back cover isn't enough, but I have to remove the front cover as well, potentially damaging the surface that's glued to it?
Are there methods that probably won't damage the front? Not sure I can do it as well as can be seen in Steve's youtube video.
Does it make sense to replace the MOSFET for a beefier one too, once I'm in there?
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You can not remove the front cover.
Pull the connector from the front board with long tweezers and pull the power supply back.
Then also put the connector with tweezers.
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I'd like to replace the electrolytic capacitors, too.
Am I right in assuming that the (easy) removal of the the back cover isn't enough, but I have to remove the front cover as well, potentially damaging the surface that's glued to it?
Are there methods that probably won't damage the front? Not sure I can do it as well as can be seen in Steve's youtube video.
Yep like poster before me said, just pull rear cover and reach in with something and un-do the "Tab" on the connector that goes to the front panel. Once done slide the PSU back in while lining up the connector again and make sure its seated all the way when done.
You can pull the front Sticker off to access the screws and take it all the way apart but its not needed to mess with the PSU. If you do, use a little bit of heat to help it peel off.
Does it make sense to replace the MOSFET for a beefier one too, once I'm in there?
Not really. Honestly there is no reason to swap the caps either, I'm sure they will function just fine for years to come.
I swapped mine just because I had a string of failures with cheap caps in smp's so I'm a little paranoid. Definitely no reason to special order them and pay shipping, If your putting an order in for other stuff, add them in sure, but it definitely isn't necessary to swap them out.
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Yep like poster before me said, just pull rear cover and reach in with something and un-do the "Tab" on the connector that goes to the front panel. Once done slide the PSU back in while lining up the connector again and make sure its seated all the way when done.
You can pull the front Sticker off to access the screws and take it all the way apart but its not needed to mess with the PSU. If you do, use a little bit of heat to help it peel off.
Thanks for your reply. I heard it on Steve's video that the front sticker is glued to the cover and I'm a little hesitant to remove it for fear of damaging it.
I was mainly asking about the front because after opening the back the power supply pcb won't budge one bit, no matter what I try, so I suspected maybe a screw in the front part of the case is holding it in place. But that seems to have been a wrong assumption.
I have no idea why the pcb is stuck. Well I guess I just stick with the caps.
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did you remove the screw for the ground wire? it it right behind the psu pcb usually on the right side. and there is a bit of glue there they used on the corners of the pcb you may have to carefully pull off or break loose. the front is a pain to get off and the one i took off was not very sticky after that so i had to carefully clean all the tape off and retape it with better tape (the stuff i use for phone screens) and i only taped it around the edges so i can remove it easier later if i need to. its not to bad to remove if you go slow and take your time but you should not have to remove it really
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In order not to overheat the plastic front panel (and not ruin it), I used a regular household hair dryer. He heated both from the inside (pulled out the power supply), and from the outside. And, of course, a suction cup, as in the video.
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I removed the pcb from the back twice, just had to remove the little grounding screw and the connector on the front pcb with a long tweezer. Removing the front takes longer and is more prone to damage.
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BTW - anybody purchased their P2408 power supply? Looks interesting but haven't seen any reviews yet...
I also spotted that very nice looking Aixun P2408 Power Supply, but I've also been unable to find any reviews (as yet).
However, as I'm very pleased with my T3B purchase, I think I might just pull the trigger on this one and find out for myself.
I don't do a lot of mobile phone repair, but the matching small form factor means this will sit very nicely with my T3B controller. Also, the added USB PD and QC3.0 support makes this 24V/8A adjustable PSU a useful compact PSU to add to my bench (alongside my existing linear and switched PSU's).
For interest, I ended up going for the T3B, instead of the T3A, as the T3B's controller cable-through-stand arrangement and the front power switch with rear connector works much better for my bench setup. Also the T210 handle / cartridge range does provide for all of my needs for PCB work, both TH and SMD.
I was going to get myself a nice JBC 027 (1.5mm) or 031 (2mm) C210 bevel tip as well, for my larger TH work with the T3B, but so far the supplied tips are getting even the bigger jobs done nicely, so I haven't seen the need yet... with the bonus that the cost of one of these JBC tips will instead pay for my P2408 :)
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For interest, I ended up going for the T3B, instead of the T3A, as the T3B's controller cable-through-stand arrangement and the front power switch with rear connector works much better for my bench setup. Also the T210 handle / cartridge range does provide for all of my needs for PCB work, both TH and SMD.
I was going to get myself a nice JBC 027 (1.5mm) or 031 (2mm) C210 bevel tip as well, for my larger TH work with the T3B, but so far the supplied tips are getting even the bigger jobs done nicely, so I haven't seen the need yet... with the bonus that the cost of one of these JBC tips will instead pay for my P2408 :)
I got the T245 version and there are quite a lot of tips available. I bought roughly 4 JBC tips for the various sizes I wanted. The chunkiest one I have, "Cartridge Knife 6.0mm" is especially impressive. Puts heat into what I'm soldering like nothing I've used before. I didn't know what I was missing till I used that tip.
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I can confirm that the 6 mm JBC (C245939) is impressive and very usefull when soldering on big ground planes.
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A friend of mine is going to give me a JBC T245 handle with a couple of used cartridges to try out the JBC platform. I was thinking of building a Unisolder station but glad I found this thread about the T3A. Looks to be a much easier option than to build the Unisolder. Just want to pose this question before I pull the trigger on a bare T3A unit without handle and the upgraded iron stand, is there a pinout diagram for the original JBC handle and the 5-pin T3A connector? I don't want to kill the nice OEM handle accidentally...
Thanks!
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Sure :)
In post 362 i wrote the pinout. Have Fun.
toktok
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Guys, did anyone manage to contact the developers of this soldering station?
I want to write them a letter.
My question (with the sleep mode when placing the handle on the stand) did not dare. The seller could not (did not want) to help me. I opened a dispute to compensate part of the price, but Aliexpress issued a decision "Return the goods to the seller."
I have already opened the station and modified the case to mount it on a shelf above the desktop.
Therefore, the presentation is already "spoiled". And in the current economic conditions, I don’t want to send anything to China. I may not even get a "faulty" soldering station back.
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Maybe you can contact the main brand of AiXun, JC.
Website and contact details: https://www.jcprogrammer.com/ (https://www.jcprogrammer.com/)
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Already wrote there - no answer.
Or did they not like the letter from yandex.ru?
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Already wrote there - no answer.
Or did they not like the letter from yandex.ru?
What do you mean with "letter from yandex.ru"?
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This is my mailbox hosted by yandex.ru - yelkvi@yandex.ru.
Try sending an email from a different address? Like gmail.com?
Someone in this chat wrote that he contacted the developers.
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Yes, Best is to use a generic mail like gmail. I don't know who contacted the developer/brand, did you used the search function already?
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they got back to me a couple times but it took like 2-3 weeks to get a response.
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2-3 weeks? Very prompt! :)
I will remake this soldering station myself. I will put a controller board from KSGER (or similar). And I'll upload the firmware from DavidAlfa. It works well - I checked.
And Aixun T3A is still very unfinished. Hardware is well done. But the firmware must be cleaned from such bugs.
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Honestly, you are the only person that seems to be having this issue. Overall, Aixun has done a great job with the firmware. Sure, there have been a few mistakes here and there, but they seem to get on those really quickly (there's been 10 updates in less than a year). If anyone still has 1.23 on their units, there's no need to upgrade it to anything else. 1.24 had issues, and 1.25 works as well as 1.23, it just has the unnecessary graphing function. No one has reported any outright failures, and some of these see heavy use. Some people do report the "Singing Handle" issue, which seems to be a mystery. Mine doesn't do that. The only thing Aixun needs to do is to change the updating program so you can downgrade the firmware, or at the very least, reinstall it. Yelkvi, if you could just reinstall the firmware, it might fix your problem. But that's not possible at the moment.
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I'm not the only one with this problem. For example, on page 9 EricNava described a similar error. And someone else later.
P.S. I would be able to flash the processor with a programmer, (not a program).
But I'm 100% sure that the Chinese will not give the firmware file - a trade secret.
P.P.S And by the way, I don't like the handle detection scheme on the stand.
I analyzed - 1 diode and 2 resistors. Input directly to the processor port. Without any protection.
It is very easy to damage the processor if a high voltage is "accidentally" applied to the cradle. For example static.
I know that the processor chip itself has protective diodes at the input. But they also come out and build.
If I were developing a circuit, I would make an optical decoupling. So more reliable. And not much more expensive. There is a lot of free space on the board.
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You put hand piece into stand -> dormancy time -> heating reduced to dormancy temperature -> sleep time -> heating disabled -> standby time -> screen turns off.
If you don't have dormancy temperature then heating is disabled as you put hand piece into stand/enter dormancy and only standby has any effect. So sleep doesn't change anything in such case.
Many thanks for the explanation, that makes sense now.
I thought the sleep or standby setting was to disable the heater when the handpiece had been taken out of the stand for a set time and not been put back in.
I would still like this option as a safety thing, so if you forget to put the iron back in the stand, it won't just stay on forever and pose a fire risk.
I think his issue was just with the unit settings. He made no more posts on it, so I can't say if it was resolved or not. I'm not sure how long you've had your unit, so maybe consider returning it?
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To be honest, the problems with the device are very rare. Usually the problems are due to incorrect settings or usage. In your case, it could be that there is actually a defect but I agree with Ungolian, firmware and hardware are of a good quality. I know firms that no longer purchase JBCs but the T3A and the use is anything but recreational....
If you suspect there is a defect then it's best to ask an RMA of the unit.
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we have over a dozen in use here and the guys like them just as well as their jbc units and honestly some of them brought their jbc units home so they were not sitting in the shop these are cheap enough if something happens to them its not a huge deal compared to the money they spend on their jbc's none of them have complained once. out of like over 20 we had only one with a bad screen issue. and these guys use them every day for everything. i told them i would buy everyone one and they all agreed to try them and they are still on everyone's desk here. a few of the guys did the cap upgrade to theirs where the others left them be for now. not saying its the end all station but they work just fine without issues for a pretty busy shop using them every day all day no major issues yet.
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Mastershake, if anyone would have issues with these, it would probably be you. But you haven't. Looking back at Eltax's FLIR image on page 8, the 35v 1000uf cap closest to the edge of the board got the hottest at 79C. The others were generally fine. Now that was an extreme situation, but it also points out where the weak link was. I'll assume the caps are of minimal quality, 85c/2000 hours. 40 work hours a week on them, and a general 49 week work year, that's 1,960 hours. That should put things into perspective. Now those caps aren't going to get that hot under general use, and while they should be good for longer than that, there's a reason people avoid the cheap Chinese electrolytics. After the first year of use, I'd recommend everyone upgrade to at least 105c/10,000 hour caps. Should be about $10 and last literally forever. Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic, Kemet, or Wurth.
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i wonder if we should have a "parts" list here with part numbers for suitable replacements and alternatives for the caps for people.
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It's already been done, and it's more like $6 (even less per unit if buying in bulk). The 1000uf caps are an issue though. They are really close together, so the size is important. Only the 2000 hour caps will fit in there, which will be fine for about 7 years with your current workload, and even then, only the 1000uf caps would need replacing. Assuming a 70C average temperature. Get them from Digikey, Mouser is out of a lot of things, including some of these caps.
SHTechnics posted this in reply #413 (and I added two edits):
C1- 82 uf 400v --> RUBYCON 400BXW82MEFR18X25 Electrolytic Capacitor, Miniature, 82 µF, 400 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 12000 hours @ 105°C
C2 - 10 uf 50v --> NICHICON ULD1H100MDD1TD Electrolytic Capacitor, 10 µF, 50 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 10000 hours @ 105°C (I changed this to a longer life cap)
C7 and C8 - 1000 uf 35v --> RUBYCON 35PX1000MEFC10X20 Electrolytic Capacitor, Miniature, 1000 µF, 35 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 2000 hours @ 105°C (changed to a higher temp cap)
C10 - 470 uf 35v --> NICHICON UPW1V471MPD1TD Electrolytic Capacitor, 470 µF, 35 V, ± 20%, Radial Leaded, 5000 hours @ 105°C
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i know those were posted but for me at least some of those were not available so i opted for different part numbers. ill pull up the ones i used and add them. same values but different sizes.
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new firmware
1.26 (2022-04-02)
1.Optimized 936 heating logic;
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Hi everyone,
I originally got the Aixun 3A with a 245 JBC handle, then got the T12 handle, because the tips are much cheaper. The JBC would be used for more "fiddly" work with small SMD components, while the T12 is for the "normal" through-hole prototyping.
Anyway, the in-stand detection works just fine with the JBC handle, but I can't make it go into sleep mode when using the T12 handle at all. Does the T12 handle even support in-stand detection and power-down mode? (I used the search function to look through the topic, if anyone else has mentioned that, but it seems nobody has....)
Thanks!
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i will test it on one of ours tomm and see.
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I had the same situation. The T12 did not go to sleep in any way. I have tried various settings. This includes a timed shutdown. And the next day, C245 stopped going to sleep when installed on a stand. There is currently no sleep mode in operation at the station. (I described this situation above). A new firmware 1.26 has been released. I hoped,
that the firmware will fix my controller. Expectations were not justified.
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i have 2 of the t12 handles one will sleep the other will not. sometime this week will open them both to see if anything is different between them both are actual aixun t12 handles everyone here used the 245 tips mostly so i dont think anyone spent enough time with the t12 before to see the one was not sleeping
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This sounds like more of a continuity issue than anything else. I'd check to see if there's continuity between the stand and the jack on the unit, then internally from the jack to to the board, the collar on the handle to whichever pin on the cable it's supposed to be on, and finally, check the pin connector for the handle on the control board. You can probably do it without taking the front panel off, but you will pretty much have to take the power supply out.
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Oh! And the collar and the stand. Start with that one first!
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i have 2 of the t12 handles one will sleep the other will not. sometime this week will open them both to see if anything is different between them both are actual aixun t12 handles everyone here used the 245 tips mostly so i dont think anyone spent enough time with the t12 before to see the one was not sleeping
Please show me your sleep settings for T12.
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On the JBC handle, I know that the handle collar is what makes the electrical contact with the stand, and that's how sleep detection works. But when I checked connectivity between the collar of my T12 handle and all of its pins, there was no electrical connection between them. Does anyone know how the in-stand detection with T12 is supposed to work exactly?
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Here on the forum they already laid out the scheme of the T12 handle. The controller comes out of sleep by a vibration sensor signal, which is fixed in the handle. This is the closure of pin 1 of the soldering station connector (Shake) to GND. The signal from this pin goes directly to the controller chip. I analyzed the diagram. But it didn't work for me. I tried both this contact and the one that back panel. And then the sleep mode stopped working altogether on the C245.
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I checked my T245 and pin 2 is connected to the metal collar of the handle. Bridging pin 2 and the jack on the back activates sleep mode.
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I also saw that the hardware version is now 1.2 instead of 1.1 like the one SteveyG posted.
(Attachment Link)
After reading this great thread decided to order the T3A.
Did you order the v1.2 from Aliexpress? could you please share from which seller you bought it?
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Hi Ercan,
I bought mine on AliExpress at the 'easy100fix Store'. They don't mention the version but I presume they just sell the V1.2 now. Better soldering, layout and protection.
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Hello everyone,
Got my T3A recently and overall experience is very good. Station is build well, good quality materials and performs realy good, has some overshoot but mine came 1.25 out of box so I believe is intended to work that way. Will get some jbc tips to see if any difference. I also noticed buzzing sound from station unit, it must be transformer playing while tip heating up. Wondering if that could be muffled by some sticky stuff they use in factories?
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has anyone who is on 110-120v had the buzzing yet? im wondering if its those on 220. i dont have any units that buzz. mine are all the older control board though i kind of wish we waiting a bit for the newer one to come out but so far so good not a bad unit yet minus one meh screen.
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Hello everyone,
Got my T3A recently and overall experience is very good. Station is build well, good quality materials and performs realy good, has some overshoot but mine came 1.25 out of box so I believe is intended to work that way. Will get some jbc tips to see if any difference. I also noticed buzzing sound from station unit, it must be transformer playing while tip heating up. Wondering if that could be muffled by some sticky stuff they use in factories?
Hi, I've never heard buzzing in the unit itself but only in the handle when it's heating. I presume the heating element is controlled by a PWM signal which creates the buzzing.
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Heating element or heating core cannot make that sound, unless something inside tip its loose, badly... :palm:
Would eletronic potting gel help to make transformer inside station to be more quieter?
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The AiXun does use DC and has to switch the tip off with current flowing and that could cause significant ringing. The real JBC stand would do zero crossing switching and wouldn't cause this issue. I get a small amount on my unit from the handle.
Hello everyone,
Got my T3A recently and overall experience is very good. Station is build well, good quality materials and performs realy good, has some overshoot but mine came 1.25 out of box so I believe is intended to work that way. Will get some jbc tips to see if any difference. I also noticed buzzing sound from station unit, it must be transformer playing while tip heating up. Wondering if that could be muffled by some sticky stuff they use in factories?
You might want to check that the inductor on the power supply is in one piece, there are a few posters that had broken ones and it could cause buzzing in the power supply.
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Heating element or heating core cannot make that sound, unless something inside tip its loose, badly... :palm:
Would eletronic potting gel help to make transformer inside station to be more quieter?
And still, most of the time and with lots of people it's the handle that's buzzing. I think I'll get a replacement handle and open it to check it out.
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The AiXun does use DC and has to switch the tip off with current flowing and that could cause significant ringing. The real JBC stand would do zero crossing switching and wouldn't cause this issue. I get a small amount on my unit from the handle.
Hello everyone,
Got my T3A recently and overall experience is very good. Station is build well, good quality materials and performs realy good, has some overshoot but mine came 1.25 out of box so I believe is intended to work that way. Will get some jbc tips to see if any difference. I also noticed buzzing sound from station unit, it must be transformer playing while tip heating up. Wondering if that could be muffled by some sticky stuff they use in factories?
You might want to check that the inductor on the power supply is in one piece, there are a few posters that had broken ones and it could cause buzzing in the power supply.
Yep, fixating it with hot glue solves that problem.
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Im not sure about hot glue but electronic potting gel is something Im going to try.
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I've just received my new T3a station and I must say that the mechanical aspect is absolutely awesome.
The aluminum case is really a high quality one.
Mine has fw v1.25 and out of the box come in Chinese language. Took me few minutes change it to English (turn button needs to be pushed for one second to be detected).
I've seen a little of over temperature in the warm up.
And yes, some coil inside the station makes noise while you're heating something with the tip. I'd like to mute this.
Now one question... Is it possible to connect a T210 handle directly or might the tips will die?
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If I remember correctly, then: 245 - 24V, 210 - 12V
Aixun T3A - Pow Sup 24V
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I've just received my new T3a station and I must say that the mechanical aspect is absolutely awesome.
The aluminum case is really a high quality one.
Mine has fw v1.25 and out of the box come in Chinese language. Took me few minutes change it to English (turn button needs to be pushed for one second to be detected).
I've seen a little of over temperature in the warm up.
And yes, some coil inside the station makes noise while you're heating something with the tip. I'd like to mute this.
Now one question... Is it possible to connect a T210 handle directly or might the tips will die?
no you will need a t3b for the 210
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I've just received my new T3a station and I must say that the mechanical aspect is absolutely awesome.
The aluminum case is really a high quality one.
Mine has fw v1.25 and out of the box come in Chinese language. Took me few minutes change it to English (turn button needs to be pushed for one second to be detected).
I've seen a little of over temperature in the warm up.
And yes, some coil inside the station makes noise while you're heating something with the tip. I'd like to mute this.
Now one question... Is it possible to connect a T210 handle directly or might the tips will die?
T3A: T12/T245/936 handle
T3B: T115/T210 handle
Both work with 24V but uses different PWM.
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New report after some test:
The buzzing noise is a bit annoying when you're soldering in the silent of night.
The dormancy works well when using an Aixun tip. If you use an original JBC one, the station is always heating (and buzzing).
With a JBC tip, it enters in dormancy mode when you touch the tip with the metal part of the stand. So it seems to be something different in the connection.
My fw version is 1.25.
Regarding the t3a/t3b... if JBC can manage both types of handles with the same station... why aixun can't?
Have you noticed that the stands aren't the same for both versions? Pay attention to the wire on the back.
T3A:
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H48941d6020ec41da9a3fcea25d8c3f6br/JC-Aixun-soporte-para-soldador-el-ctrico-soporte-para-Estaci-n-de-soldadura-T3A-T3B-mango.jpg_640x640.jpg)
T3B:
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H09848fe1ffcf487fba1b0296733339e0r/JC-Aixun-soporte-para-soldador-el-ctrico-soporte-para-Estaci-n-de-soldadura-T3A-T3B-mango.jpg_640x640.jpg)
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the stands are different because the t3a and t3b use different ends for the handles where they connect to the stand as well the t3b runs the cable through the stand then out to the handle the t3a does not do that
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Hello.
A week ago I bought an Aaixun T3A soldering station complete with c245 handle. Firmware version 1.25
Three days later, a malfunction appeared - the station stopped switching to sleep mode when the soldering iron handle was placed on the stand.
All other functions work. Connects to a computer via USB.
You can read the firmware version and serial number.
I reset the controller to factory settings. Did not help.
Moreover, the controller sees that the handle is installed on a stand - this is noticeable from the power graph. But the temperature does not decrease, but remains the one that I set. Sleep does not appear on the screen
It is likely that this is a software bug. I can't flash the new software - version 1.25 is the latest.
What else can I do?
Do you have this issue with Aixun tips and with JBC tips?
Because I have the same problem but only with original JBC tips.
I think the problem is that they have slightly different shapes in the handle connection area.
This is the JBC:
[attach=1]
This is the Aixun:
[attach=2]
Probably the connection in the Aixun handle is in that area.
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This video helps to clarify:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekg2QZa0ghE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekg2QZa0ghE)
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I ordered a T3A in early january and have been using it a bit. It has worked okay with the included tips, a bit lacking in power (all included tips were small) so I ordered some genuine JBC tips from my local supplier. They just arrived today and I tried out the first one a big 4.8 Chisel tip, all worked fine and it soldered like a dream. After this I tried a C245-944 1.8 x 0.8 chisel tip. It seemed to work fine, I soldered some high power pins and it flowed fine, but then I heldt the handle upside down with the tip inbetween two pins when suddenly the tip started glowing red hot like the included image: [attach=1] (not my image).
After this I tested one of the included tips and it heated up fine, but the moment I started moving it inside my metal cleaning sponge it started glowing red hot as well. I assume this must be something with the fake handle and the orignal tips causing this?
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i dont have that model handle but if it only happens when you hold the handle that way then yeah best guess would be something loose / shorting inside the handle they come apart pretty easy
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Seems like you have a defective handle. Most T3A/B owners use original JBC tips and don't have that problem.
I switch between JBC tips all the time and never had an issue.
Also dormancy mode works perfect on the T3A with JBC tips.
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Inspired by cfg5 user I made modification to new aixun t3a stand. I like the fact that I can change tips quickly same as with jbc stand.
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I ordered a T3A in early january and have been using it a bit. It has worked okay with the included tips, a bit lacking in power (all included tips were small) so I ordered some genuine JBC tips from my local supplier. They just arrived today and I tried out the first one a big 4.8 Chisel tip, all worked fine and it soldered like a dream. After this I tried a C245-944 1.8 x 0.8 chisel tip. It seemed to work fine, I soldered some high power pins and it flowed fine, but then I heldt the handle upside down with the tip inbetween two pins when suddenly the tip started glowing red hot like the included image: (Attachment Link) (not my image).
After this I tested one of the included tips and it heated up fine, but the moment I started moving it inside my metal cleaning sponge it started glowing red hot as well. I assume this must be something with the fake handle and the orignal tips causing this?
There really isn't anything inside the handle except 3 sets of forks that make contact with the tip, and the wiring. Yes, the forks can get bent out of alignment, but the orientation of the handle shouldn't have any effect on that. It should always be bad. As we've seen before, the soldering in the units can be questionable, and the handles are probably the same way. I'd guess there is a stray piece of solder or wire inside the handle that is moving around and making contact when held vertically. Can you hear anything rattling around inside? Maybe tap it on a table without a tip inserted and see if you can get something to fall out. Otherwise, just get a new handle and test it for a while with the included cheap tips.
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Seems like new dual channel T245/T210 soldering station is being released - Aixun T420D. Information is rather light for now. It seems to have transformer (toroid) based power supply instead of switching? 200W rated power is bit unclear - 200W shared or for each channel?
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Its a bit pricey unit...
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There really isn't anything inside the handle except 3 sets of forks that make contact with the tip, and the wiring. Yes, the forks can get bent out of alignment, but the orientation of the handle shouldn't have any effect on that. It should always be bad. As we've seen before, the soldering in the units can be questionable, and the handles are probably the same way. I'd guess there is a stray piece of solder or wire inside the handle that is moving around and making contact when held vertically. Can you hear anything rattling around inside? Maybe tap it on a table without a tip inserted and see if you can get something to fall out. Otherwise, just get a new handle and test it for a while with the included cheap tips.
No rattle sounds, it seems fine and solid. Tried pushing cartridges in and out and rotating, but I can't feel anything special. I'll probably just order a new handle and see if that works better. Since it also happened with the included ones afterwards I think I can try the new tips with the unit off first to be sure.
https://youtu.be/fr8UT9MZfIs (https://youtu.be/fr8UT9MZfIs) As seen in the video the power bar jumps between 0 and 100%.
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one of the handles i had they did not use heatshrink on inside and there was a short. i re soldered the leads with a bit of heat shrink on them. it didnt cause me any overheating issues though. in this case the unit did not see the handle attached. id still recc opening the handle just to take a peak. it only takes a couple minutes
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one of the handles i had they did not use heatshrink on inside and there was a short. i re soldered the leads with a bit of heat shrink on them. it didnt cause me any overheating issues though. in this case the unit did not see the handle attached. id still recc opening the handle just to take a peak. it only takes a couple minutes
I did open the handle now, and it seems like maybe one of the three contacts was rotated a bit and was touching another contact. It seems like it works ok now. It looks kind of like the holes and grooves in the plastic are a bit larger than the metal connectors so they have a bit too much room to move around inside.
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Seems like new dual channel T245/T210 soldering station is being released - Aixun T420D. Information is rather light for now. It seems to have transformer (toroid) based power supply instead of switching? 200W rated power is bit unclear - 200W shared or for each channel?
Looks like they are competing with themselves. Why would you buy this for (probably) $400+ when you can buy both a T3A and T3B for under $300? Both units stacked on top of each other would also take up less space. Not to mention questionable parts and sharing power and screen in one unit... If something happens, both sides become useless. The price, QC, and reputation of JBC makes that unlikely. The same can't be said of Aixun.
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Had a good 3 month run before it started to malfunction..... I guess the buy nice or buy twice has come after me...... The soldering station no longer responds to the setback and when placed in the stand the temperature reading jumps... I checked electrically and it seemed fine and tried forcing it by connecting the stand terminal to ground and still nothing.... Looking inside I found a cap that seems to be on its way out which is a sad since I sparingly use it... The soldering iron is able to dump heat into a wet sponge drawing max power without issues and maintains ~23V according to the read-out so I don't see that being the immediate cause
Disassembly ain't fun with the heavily glued front panel which I broke..... so now I have given up on something I really liked while it lasted.....
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The soldering iron is able to dump heat into a wet sponge drawing max power without issues and maintains ~23V according to the read-out so I don't see that being the immediate cause
The capacitor, of course, must be replaced. But it is not the cause of the malfunction.
I wrote here earlier that I have a similar malfunction - the controller does not see that the soldering iron handle is placed on the stand. More precisely, the controller sees, but does not react (does not go into sleep mode).
So I'm not the only one with such a malfunction.
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I hope the signal from the stand doesn't go directly to the MCU pin, as it would be easy to damage it with ESD...
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Had a good 3 month run before it started to malfunction..... I guess the buy nice or buy twice has come after me...... The soldering station no longer responds to the setback and when placed in the stand the temperature reading jumps... I checked electrically and it seemed fine and tried forcing it by connecting the stand terminal to ground and still nothing.... Looking inside I found a cap that seems to be on its way out which is a sad since I sparingly use it... The soldering iron is able to dump heat into a wet sponge drawing max power without issues and maintains ~23V according to the read-out so I don't see that being the immediate cause
Disassembly ain't fun with the heavily glued front panel which I broke..... so now I have given up on something I really liked while it lasted.....
That's why me and others directly replaced all the caps. Btw: you can access it from the rear, you need little pliers or hook to unplug the plug on the front panel after which you can slide out the PSU. I've replace all the caps without removing the front.
Which version is noted on the back of the frontpcb? V1.1 or V1.2?
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It is a version 1.1, I was able to remove the front panel after accepting that It would be blank.... I traced out the circuit and from what I was measuring the Stand sense wire is connected to the +V supply via a resistor, the other side goes into the MCU, there is a diode for reverse protection. ESD was also my first thought, I traced out for a while and could find 0 issues..... The MCU pin where it is likely sensing the connection to ground read ~0.6V which means it is probably fine.
I am real confused on why the stand wire causes the temperature reading to change and why it is not detecting it... For now I have given up on trying to reverse engineer and find the issue.... I tried running it off a bench power supply and the same issue was present, so the bad capacitor isn't the culprit as i thought. I mainly stopped after I ran into the PNP transistor which seemed like the power supply for the MCU as that being faulty would not allow everything else to function normally
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Is anyone able to confirm pinout for the T3A to use a 907/936 style handle? I want to use one I already have but can't get it to recognise the handle, so I must have it hooked up incorrectly.
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Inspired by cfg5 user I made modification to new aixun t3a stand. I like the fact that I can change tips quickly same as with jbc stand.
why get rid of the set back wire
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Hmm, Im doing the attachments wrong, I'm putting them as inline expandable but i must be messing it up.
936 Handle
Not much to say about this one as likely no one else is probably going to buy one. I plugged it in to see if it worked and that's likely all the use it will see. Not a great fit in the stand, but sleeps right away as its all grounded. Has a cartridge/plug in heater. I will have to see if I can find spares anywhere.
I have the 245 New stand coming even though I don't mind the cheap one that came with it. Also have two TB3's coming, looking forward to checking them out.
I have very little time on this unit but so far I'm pretty happy. I recommended the KSGER stations before but they have really started to climb in price. So far this these stations seem to be a pretty good value.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I know the 936 is not a popular handle these days, but I use one for threaded inserts. I have a genuine JBC T245 handle for the T3A. I thought I'd try and get a clone 936/709 handle working too, but based on the images in this old post, it seems the Aixun 936 handle has only 3 wires going to the gx12. Can I assume then that this handle is not a common all garden 936 handle? My clone has 5 cores, so must be a thermocouple type I guess? Does anyone know how to identify the correct type of clone 936 handle to buy? Buying it from aixun is way overpriced and it's surely just a rewire job using an off the shelf cheap clone handle.
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Yes, all handles seems to be "aixun special" this is due to the handle auto detection and also because different manufacturers have their own sleep detection. Don't expect other handles to just work. You need specific aixun handle or modify handle from different brand.
All handle have thermocouple and basic 3 wires = thermocouple + heater power + shared gnd. If your other brand handle has more then there is perhaps extra tilt switch (or some alternative) in the handle for sleep detection. I don't think you can easily tell what if what unless you take handle apart or find out the pinout of the other handle from someone else.
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I am trying to build the Jbc (210) station from clones , so I ordered from aliexpress the control board module, the soldering iron and the psu(12V,6A).
Now I have open the soldering iron handle and I can see 3 wires connected at the end to 3 copper slots and one bridge on the aviation connector.
The problem is the connection diagram showing that pin 1 and pin 4 have to touch the second ring of the soldering iron tip and pins 2 and 5 the first ring of soldering iron tip.
Is it ok to bridge on the aviation connector or is better to order a cable with 4 o 5 wires and solder it on the 3 copper slots?
Also pin 3 it is for identification of the handle and in the diagram it is floating! So I believe that should be manual set up..?
The negative pole of the soldering iron tip is the thin one or the one in the middle?
So, what do you advise me to do ?
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Can I ask a dumb question. When replacing capacitors in the T3A's power supply, is it OK to replace C1 (image attached) with a 200V or 250V rated capacitor? For use with 120V line input only.
I noticed that C1, a big 82 uF capacitor is rated 400 V and I believe that voltage rating is derived from the max input voltage of 240V, so I'm hoping I can use a 250V rated cap instead.
I'll try to attach an image here so at least you can see what I'm talking about. C1 is the large one near the middle of the picture.
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Can I ask a dumb question. When replacing capacitors in the T3A's power supply, is it OK to replace C1 (image attached) with a 200V or 250V rated capacitor? For use with 120V line input only.
I noticed that C1, a big 82 uF capacitor is rated 400 V and I believe that voltage rating is derived from the max input voltage of 240V, so I'm hoping I can use a 250V rated cap instead.
I'll try to attach an image here so at least you can see what I'm talking about. C1 is the large one near the middle of the picture.
Hi, when used on 120VAC the 250V rating is sufficient.
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Hi folks, long time reader, first time poster here... I've just ordered the T3A with T245 handle (thanks for a ton of discussion and advice here!). I have duly read all the 22 pages (so far)!
Still have a question: does anybody know a reliable source for genuine JBC tips (C245) in Canada? Online is ok, I just don't want to get hit with exorbitant "brokerage/shipping fees" etc... Tried searching @ digikey and mouser... no dice, or I'm going blind... looks like they don't sell JBC products...
Alternatively (I know it will not be the original quality!) - but any advice on the current AliExpress sellers / tip brands for compatible tips?
I do need a couple of tips to feel comfortable, one with high thermal mass (like the #966 6mm monster) and my daily driver would be something like #905 or #945. Most of my stuff is still TH, some SMD, but I hope the T3A's bundled tips will do for those small scale SMD cases (or hot air!)...
As a background, I'm coming from 900/936 clones, mostly CXG or WiT "station-in-a-handle" types, 110-120W each, and I use mostly the bare copper tips on those.
Any suggestions on reachable-from-Canada sources of genuine or good clone C245 tips?
Many thanks!
-Al
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I can't speak about getting 245 tips in Canada, but I can say that the included tips aren't the best. I don't like conical tips, which you get two of, and they are very small. The only one I could use was the knife, and even then, it's not as wide as I would like. If you are working on phones, then yeah, they can work and are the correct sizes/styles. But like you, I'm doing through-hole and SMD (0402 is the smallest I deal with, and that's rare). I wound up buying 5 245 tips, but I should have only bought 3. The C245-158E is my workhorse, works great, zero complaints about it. The 157E is my knife, but it also has a fairly high thermal mass and works better than the C245-759 I intended to use for such things. Mind you, I don't work on heavy ground planes or anything. Just eyelets and old turret boards on vintage audio stuff, nothing I'd need a 6mm tip for. Then I bought a C245-710 for SMD stuff, and while it wasn't necessarily a mistake, the C245-748 I wound up buying later made the 710 obsolete as it is between the 158E and 748. The 710 is long, skinny, and can get into tight places, but rarely gets used now. So I'd point you towards the C245- 157E, 158E, and 748. That will literally cover everything between the two extremes. For the extremely small, the included tips will work fine. For the large, yes, the 966 will work. Or you could go with something like the Weller D550PK "Big Gun" which comes with 3 tips, is like $20 more than the 966 tip, but will handle ANYTHING big. Just depends on how "big" your needs are, and how often you'd use it. Oh, and you brought up the 905 and 945. That's up to you. I personally don't use them that much, I don't like that you have a generally fixed angle you have to use them at, and prefer the 158E as my daily driver. That said, when I do need a 905 type for drag soldering where the knife won't work (tight spaces where I can't drag horizontally), I have a TS80 with a 905-like tip that I use to drag vertically. So you'll need 3-5 tips depending on what you really need. The C245-748 is an absolute winner for anything SMD that you don't need to drag solder. Can't recommend that one enough. Daily driver is personal preference I guess. I prefer the 158E, but if you like the 905 and are used to it, you can go with that, and possibly skip the 157E since you can drag solder with the 905 tip too. But the 157E is great for fixing solder bridges. Then you need something big. That's totally up to you, you have my suggestions. Good luck!
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Thanks, @Ungolian! I appreciate you sharing your experiences. I will look at your choice of numbers closer :-). The big one (966) is likely an overkill for me, if I'm to believe the videos showing how well C245 does heat transfer in general - I might be ok with 039 or 939 knives. My most-heavy stuff is soldering threaded inserts (like M3 thread, or #4-40 or#6-32 thread) to the ground polygons (horizontal, opening aligned to the edge of the PCB) - I often use those to fixate a "sandwich" of PCBs inside of a shell case, sandwich slides in, threaded inserts align to the holes in the shell case, screws go into recessed/countersunk spots. I solder the inserts with Hakko-style copper tips, roughly the size of #256 in C245 world (but hakko style gives way worse heat transfer). So, #966 is likely an overkill.
I'm actually looking at AliEx's option (kelly~something I think is the name of the store), looks like I can get 5 pcs of different shapes for about $60CAD (~$47USD) - might be a good option to try different shapes before paying about the same amount for a single genuine JBC tip.
I'm with you on small/conical tips bundled with T3A - not my cup of tea as well.
On a side note, I'm also thinking that maybe I should try to opto-decouple T3A's auto-sleep input with something like PC817 (of which I have few on hand), power the LED side from 24V source (small current, so something like 10kOhm resistor would suffice) and use transistor side to drive the MCU input line. I'm kinda uneasy about bare MCU pin being exposed to my bench, on which I have silicone mats... which can get... static-y... I will be doing visual inspection of T3A's inside upon receipt anyway, it's easy to add a PC817 on a tiny piece of protoboard, under heat-shrink protection layer at that time... Any thoughts on this?
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Any suggestions on reachable-from-Canada sources of genuine or good clone C245 tips?
Try Accessotronic, they are in Quebec. You may need to fiddle with the search though, as their web site is absolute garbage, has been like that for years. Also my shipping experience with them was very slow, i recall they are a 1 man shop. But the products are genuine.
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Thanks, @Bud! Yeah, I also found DiverseElectronics, also in Montreal, like Accessotronic. And I was spot on with my price guessing - price, per tip, is 47...60 CAD + tax. I'm leaning towards trying with clones first to get a feel of tip's shape, then once I know what I like - I can buy a genuine one to fully enjoy... Probably will go with that kelly...-something store on AliEx, reviews are not too bad, they seem to be in soldering tools business, will get a variety (5 pieces) for $60 shipped... Will see... But thanks a lot for the lead - I feel I will need the genuine anyway, just not for $300 to just try :-)... Have a good night!
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Yes, such approach makes sense.
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Hi!
Got JBC DDE station + T245 grip and i want to add second iron for very rare desoldering jobs. Does the Aixun T3B stand suit JBC out of the box, or it has different pinout and will not work?
Thanks
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Funny - I was about ask a similar thing.
I also still have a genuine JBC handle and was wondering if I could just attach it by replacing the plug.
Seems like the station uses a GX16 - but what's the pin out of the station and the handle?
And will the station recognize the handle correctly? or is there some special resistor that needs to be added?
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Interesting. There is so much fake T245 handles out there. Do they all use different pinout than original? Or Aixun only uses different pinout/jack?
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Pinout is different between JBC and Aixun. Find the info here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modify-aixun-t3b-to-work-with-t245-c245-and-t12-cartridges/msg3862187/#msg3862187 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modify-aixun-t3b-to-work-with-t245-c245-and-t12-cartridges/msg3862187/#msg3862187)
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Pinout is different between JBC and Aixun. Find the info here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modify-aixun-t3b-to-work-with-t245-c245-and-t12-cartridges/msg3862187/#msg3862187 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modify-aixun-t3b-to-work-with-t245-c245-and-t12-cartridges/msg3862187/#msg3862187)
Ah, cool - but I am a little confused on the details of the write up.
Is "Tip Sense" the connection to the TC? But IIUC the TC is different so there is no easy way to just interchange the handles unless the firmware allows for full calibration.
Does the Aixun handle come with some kind of inactivity sensor the JBC does not have?
What's the ID Tool? A mechanism to detect the kind of handle? Isn't that just a resistor?
Aixun:
1 GND
2 VCC
3 Tip Sense
4 Inactivity Sense
5 GND
6 ID Tool
JBC:
1 GND (black)
2 VCC (red)
3 TC (green)
4 N/C
5 "Bridge Pin 6 GND"?
6 "Bridge Pin 5 ID Tool"?
Either way - it does not seem like re-ordering the cables on a new plug will make it work completely.
At least that's how I read it.
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If you're getting a T3B with the stand, a handle will be included. You can compare it to your handle. There's relatively little info on the T3B so far, and I only have the T3A, so I can't speak to the differences other than the obvious voltage/wattage difference, and that the T3B uses questionable electrolytics in the power supply like the T3A and should be replaced when you can. There are others here who have both and will probably chime in with answers.
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If you're getting a T3B with the stand, a handle will be included. You can compare it to your handle.
I am talking about he T3A - not the T3B. Although I assume the pinout of the handles are shared between the two.
My question was:
Can I somehow connect an original JBC T245 handle to an Aixun T3A and everything is working.
But it sounds like that might not be so easy.
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Hello all!
I've just received my T3A as an upgrade to my ancient Hakko 936. Such a shocking difference in operation!
Anyway I have a question for those who have replaced the capacitors - I see that some people have managed to disconnect the power lead to the front board without removing the faceplate. However, I'm not entirely sure how people have managed this - my 150mm needlenose pliers don't seem to be able to grab the connector at the right angle to disconnect the locking tab. They can grab the connector at the sides (just) but then there's no space for any additional tools to push the tab in.
I'm a bit leery of brute-forcing the connector, so am unsure as how to proceed. Could someone give me some pointers?
Many thanks!
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Hello all!
I've just received my T3A as an upgrade to my ancient Hakko 936. Such a shocking difference in operation!
Anyway I have a question for those who have replaced the capacitors - I see that some people have managed to disconnect the power lead to the front board without removing the faceplate. However, I'm not entirely sure how people have managed this - my 150mm needlenose pliers don't seem to be able to grab the connector at the right angle to disconnect the locking tab. They can grab the connector at the sides (just) but then there's no space for any additional tools to push the tab in.
I'm a bit leery of brute-forcing the connector, so am unsure as how to proceed. Could someone give me some pointers?
Many thanks!
I did this with a little screwdriver, just push on the little tab on the side of the connector and pull gently. Afterwards push the connector back in with the help of the little screwdriver.
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Mission accomplished! Thank you very much indeed.
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Hi all,
As a matter of giving back to this community - I wanted to share my T3A shenanigans :-).
First, I've re-capped it like many here have done, below is the list of capacitors (part numbers are from Digikey):
PART: 1189-3155-ND
MFG : RUBYCON / 400BXW82MEFR18X25
DESC: CAP ALUM 82UF 20% 400V RADIAL COO : JAPAN ECCN:
PART: P122334CT-ND <--- NEED 2 of these!!!
MFG : PANASONIC ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS (VA) / EEU-FS1V102LB
DESC: CAP ALUM 1000UF 20% 35V RADIAL COO : MALAYSIA
PART: 1189-1890-ND
MFG : RUBYCON / 35ZLH470MEFC10X16
DESC: CAP ALUM 470UF 20% 35V RADIAL COO : INDONESIA
PART: 1189-50YXM10MEFRTA5X11CT-ND
MFG : RUBYCON (VA) / 50YXM10MEFRTA5X11
DESC: CAP ALUM 10UF 20% 50V RADIAL COO : JAPAN
All capacitors are 10,000 hours rated, except the high-voltage one which is rated for 12,000 hours. All 105 C.
While I was at it - I've also re-soldered wires on the back edge of the PSU board - the AC wires, including ground were rather poorly soldered, fixed that.
Next, I decided to add opto-coupling protection to the "dormancy" input of the base station. Schematic is attached if you are interested.
As in case of an ESD event energy will have to be dumped somewhere and that could be +24V rail of the PSU (need power source to light up the LED side of the optocoupler = inevitable to have DC power line galvanically exposed), I had to add ESD protection in addition to optocoupling. I choose to go a bit of "belt and suspenders", opting to have two-stage response: (1) bi-directional TVS clamping it in ~1nS to +/- 30V, then (2) classic stack of two switching diodes finishing it off in ~3nS more. In case of negative spike it shorts to GND at the connector via TVS and then 1N4148 diode, in case of positive spike - energy still gets clamped by TVS and then gets dumped into nearest, on-board capacitors (1uF + 0.1uF to cover broad frequency spectrum of ESD pulse), the small remainder may get dumped into PSU's caps.
Some considerations for the PC817 chip - since the onboard input (MCU board of T3A) already has a series protection diode I've made sure the voltage drop on the transistor side of PC817 is minimal. Otherwise MCU may not sense its activation as logic zero. As expected, with small LED-side current (<2.5mA) the difference between "noname" generic PC817 and brand-names was visible, nonames were dropping about 80% more voltage @ the same LED current. So, I chose the smallest drop PC817 (Kento JC817) from the stock I have on hand. Having said that, I believe there is sufficient buffer there, so generic PC817 should work as well.
I've also added debouncing capacitor (with a current limiting resistor) on the MCU side of the optocoupler - probably unnecessary, but since I don't know what software debouncing is in place on firmware side I chose to be safe. The handle->stand's collar circuit makes a helluva bouncy contact :-) !
I have then put together a PCB with intent to mount it on the inside of the back panel, using two connectors (GND and Input) as both mechanical mounting points and electrical connection. Once received from the fab - assembled and mounted, as shown on photos. The only two modifications to the T3A in that area had to be: (1) file down the inside plastic collar of each connector by 1.6mm (thickness of protector PCB) to allow enough thread to be grabbed by the nut; and (2) snip the ring terminal off the MCU input wire - it gets soldered to the protector PCB instead. Oh, and +24V is obtained via a short wire from the back panel's 24VDC connector (its center pin, red wire in the photo).
If you are going to repeat this setup - note the transparent insulation sheet behind the new PCB - important as it sits close to the vents, you don't want stray wires to short 24V to GND :-). BTW, both the protector PCB and the plastic insulator sheet are NOT blocking vents, hard to see in the photos, but there is still about 1/8" between the inside of the back panel with vents and the plastic sheet. So, convection is still possible.
I hope this will help someone.
Have a great day!
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Very well. It is strange that the Chinese manufacturers did not do this at the factory.
Unfortunately, on my soldering station, this processor port has already failed. And the soldering iron does not go into sleep mode. Replacing the processor will not help - there is no firmware. And the Chinese will not give it.
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Unless you have tried it already... I'd try to short/bypass the protection diode on the MCU board - on a slim chance that MCU input got fried-but-not-completely... Maybe pulling it harder down (like real 0V instead of about ~0.5...0.6V diode drop) would help the injured input to still function... Hard to reach the MCU board though - either remove the front panel (pain in the back... glued...), or have a really steady hand and a slim soldering iron you could hold by the end of the handle, then you could try to reach out to D3 (check - I might be wrong), and solder at least one wire to it's anode. Page 21 of this discussion has a picture with marking on the diode for this input. You only need one wire soldered to try, no need to really short the diode - as long as you have it's anode on a long-ish wire you can try shorting it to ground, see if it works...
If I'd have to go down that path - I'd first lay a thin single-strand wire with a tinned end close to D3's anode, glue it to the MCU board (a drop of hot glue, molten in place by soldering iron?), then with long tweezers I would bend the wire end to touch D3 anode, and then I would try to put a small solder blob over it. One touch operation, in terms of soldering effort.
Now if it does work - I'd certainly do something like I did - to protect what's left of the MCU input :-).
Good luck!
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i do not understand why these GPIO input protections have to be so elaborate.
I mean i do understand how is broken on a 3v3 mcu. (i have seen / done this before myself elsewhere, simply by static discharge, touching it). So i am guessing if the user isn't grounded and they touched the exposed metal ring on the handle? This is how it gets damaged right?
Ok, but if there is a clamping diode already... then why didn't that adequately protect the input? And if not enough, can we not do some simpler type of mods here to protect it well enough?
In terms of busted MCU, i do understand that the USB firmware update isn't so great. However if you can get an image to flash, that is really the only obstacle? Because those ST protection feature of the STM32. Then I think really Aixun should be more helpful in this regard and offer to send you a pre-flashed MCU. For a few bucks spare parts charge. If they want to preserve their firmwares.
Otherwise well there is some kindda tricky POC code that is supposed to work for some versions of chinese clone MCU. Like the GD**** brand or whatever. That has a potential to work around those firmware read protections. It really depends specifically on which specific model of MCU. Probably needs a bit more looking into. But i would try to contact Aixun again first though. Since that would be the easier solution.
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hmm. hopefully there is some update to those input protections on the new aixun t420 station that steve reviewed today. which might be visible in some high resolution photos of its pcb.
btw thanks for the list of caps to replace (from digikey). i think that is well worth it and definately intend to be doing that. very helpful
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@dreamcat4 - the diode which is on the MCU board already is essentially a reverse polarity protection element, not a clamping diode in any meaningful way... A backflow prevention valve, I'd say... It's in series with the sensing line [MCU GPIO pin] -- [diode] -- [connector on the back of T3A]. It's not a valid ESD protection. At best it's a crude protection against shorting of the 24V supply (right inside of the melting handle :-) ) to the GPIO MCU line...
High potential ESD discharge will introduce energy into the circuit, for which there will be no other path to ground other than the MCU GPIO pin... BTW, polarity of ESD potential can be positive or negative, in the latter case - the on-board diode will gladly open and pass it all through... all several kilovolts, minus 0.5-0.7V of its own voltage drop :-). If it's positive pulse of high voltage - the diode will gladly breakdown and pass it all through as well :-). In short - ESD protection does need to be thought through, obviously not the case with AiXun T3A design in that particular area :-).
BTW, it doesn't have to be elaborate either, see something like TI's high speed TVSes (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpd1e05u06.pdf (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpd1e05u06.pdf)). Tiny package... My design decisions were influenced heavily by what I had on hand :-). One also needs to consider the normal operating voltage of the circuit under protection, like 24V in case of my design, because with TVS + diodes I'm protecting the 24V rail from ESD, while the MCU input is protected separately by the optocoupler. So I had to use an appropriate stand off voltage-rated TVS. If done at the design stage of the entire device (T3A) it could have been very simple, like a single ceramic capacitor, maybe 0.1uF or 1uF from this line to the ground (especially considering how slow, pretty much static this "signal" line is)... or that plus a BAV99... or better - the TI's integrated TVS referenced above. But then - there are limits of simple protection methods, including breakdown of dielectric in those capacitors... I still like optocoupling better for anything that leaves the confines of whatever my design is.
Good luck with re-capping - definitely a worthy upgrade for a worthy product!
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so well understood
lol when you mentioned the ti tvs you just reminded me that i already had previously started a thread on input protecting my firewire audio interface. with a very similar idea, in fact the firewire differential operating voltage for those compatible tvs is supposed to be around 30v or something.
see i could or should probaby add some tvs's to my digikey order when ordering those caps.
lets see now where my other thread was on those tvs things...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/how-add-esd-surge-supression-mod-to-firewire-audio-interface/msg4326289/#msg4326289 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/how-add-esd-surge-supression-mod-to-firewire-audio-interface/msg4326289/#msg4326289)
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BTW, if anyone will be using the list of capacitors I've posted above - don't forget that you will need two of the 1000uFx35V (not one!). I've updated my posting above to reflect that.
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i do not understand why these GPIO input protections have to be so elaborate.
A simple small TVS diode should be all that's required. If you're designing from scratch you may wish to add additional protection but you would need some specific circumstances to make it worthwhile.
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wonder if these would be suitable. They are from the same series as the ones meant for the firewire device. Of course in this application there isn't any such need for high switching frequencies. And as was noted 'it bounces around a lot' with the MCU firmware doing its on software debouncing.
Anyhow here is the TVS protection device i was interested in from before (but as a single channel, instead of needing the bigger 4-channels version):
https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/eaton-electronics-division/0603ESDA-MLP1/14645727 (https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/eaton-electronics-division/0603ESDA-MLP1/14645727)
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@dreamcat4: careful with just this component on the GPIO pin, its datasheet lists 35V clamping - check it against the GD32F303 datasheet, where page 51 lists:
VIN:
Input voltage on 5V tolerant pin(3) VSS - 0.3 ... VDD + 3.6 V
Input voltage on other I/O VSS - 0.3 ... 3.6 V
and footnote 3 lists:
(3) VIN maximum value cannot exceed 5.5V.
This may not mix well enough in terms of protection. It will be better than nothing (35V is waaay better than several kilovolts!), but alone this particular component may not be sufficient... Just IMHO :-).
Also, if selecting a TVS with lower stand-off voltage - check its datasheet for leakage current, if I recall correctly, at least some TVS lineups show notable leakage for lower nominal stand-off voltages. If leakage current is tangible - it could pull the GPIO level down far enough to make MCU think it's a logic zero (or keep flapping in and out of zero randomly).
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Then I think really Aixun should be more helpful in this regard and offer to send you a pre-flashed MCU. For a few bucks spare parts charge. If they want to preserve their firmwares.
I wrote to Aixun technical support. They didn't answer.
I described my problem here earlier.
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@dreamcat4: careful with just this component on the GPIO pin, its datasheet lists 35V clamping - check it against the GD32F303 datasheet, where page 51 lists:
VIN:
Input voltage on 5V tolerant pin(3) VSS - 0.3 ... VDD + 3.6 V
Input voltage on other I/O VSS - 0.3 ... 3.6 V
and footnote 3 lists:
(3) VIN maximum value cannot exceed 5.5V.
This may not mix well enough in terms of protection. It will be better than nothing (35V is waaay better than several kilovolts!), but alone this particular component may not be sufficient... Just IMHO :-).
Also, if selecting a TVS with lower stand-off voltage - check its datasheet for leakage current, if I recall correctly, at least some TVS lineups show notable leakage for lower nominal stand-off voltages. If leakage current is tangible - it could pull the GPIO level down far enough to make MCU think it's a logic zero (or keep flapping in and out of zero randomly).
yes thanks for bringing this up. i absolutely get what you are coming from here. and it is a legitimate concern. my own problem is that i really don't actually understand enough about this subject to be sure either way.
however it was my prior understanding that even something like a 3v3 input to a silicon die on a modern mcu will already have some modest levels of physical protection against something like a short lived transient. i.e. those do not exceed voltages in the data sheet are tested for continuus steady state situation. whereas a transient is very short lived. so in other words, so long as the tvs has a low enough pf effective capacitance. and can react fast enough. then it might still exceed 35v going up the spike before getting triggered sure... but then so long as it never reaches several kv of pd, and the transiend getts stopped by the time it reaches lets say at 50v or 100v (as an example). then it no longer presents a high enough pd to the silicon die of the mcu to actually crack it. or break it whatever that catastrophic physical event is called. for example if the catastrophic reverse breakdown voltage of a diode (or a pn junction or whatever) is around 500v. that is going to then adequately protect the ic from the hv arcing type discharge. that jumps over and destroys that diode junction.
wheras i am assuming here (in my utter ignorance, please correct me) that those long term (steady state) volatage limit is probably more to do with a forward biased diodes or silicon junctions overheating. and then slowly burning up. like you would slowly burn and overheat a transistor.
what i am not accounting for however is the fast acting and electric field sensitivity of a fet / mosfet field gates at the gpio input of the mcu. because those are more sensitive and works differently. but presumably a fet gate must be yet another type of insulative gap to arc over. or any other such nano scale physical gaps between adjacent traces or pads at the input circuit of that mcu's gpio pin. which presumably should be able to stand more than only just a 5v over voltage (in terms of hv arcing only, and for that snubbed tansient of the modified or diverted esd discharge event spike).
so the reason that specific tvs i referenced was because it is supposed to have lower pf capacitance than the ti ones. however i remember now that is intended to improve the maximum speed of the slew rate and switching bandwidth of the valid data that can be passed though it and still remain valid signal. so it really is not matter as a desirable feature for this application. since the thing bounces around like crazy and there no point trying to preserve that.
i just am not as sure it actually matters (meaningfully compromises or reduces protections) during an actual short lived esd discharge event. maybe the datasheets for a tvs (in general) should state a minimum voltage somewhere. that then corresponds to these 3v3 cmos process technology. it just might be in the 100's of volts. haven't checked / don't know yet. not really my area of expertise unfortunately. but should really learn / look into it! thanks for bringing this up here
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ah ok... looking at the datasheet for the 0603ESDA-MLP1, it says the leakage current is less than 1nA... seems negligble. (these are supposed to be the highest possible quality TVS btw, so that does not surprise me).
* the trigger voltage being 300v (for an ESD surge). Seems in line with what you might reasonably expect
* and claims a 'less than 1nS' response time (presumably for that 300v trigger point)
* rated for at least 1000 ESD discharge events before failure
wheras the clamping voltage seems to be an independant feature. Like a 2-for-1 type deal. In this scenario having a clamping voltage... it probably does not matter?
You want a clamping voltage feature (for example). To protect connecting something that is feeding +5v signals into a 3v3 chip. So in other words to reduce component count in a design. And not need some seperate input network or other dedicated clamping circuit.
So I don't believe that would be applicable here (for the stand input). Since it is it's own self driven circuit designed. All we need is the ESD protection feature not the clamping feature here right?
However i take the point, because it could be useful for other projects when ordering a bunch of these. To have a proper 3v3 (or 3.6v whatever) clamping. For other stuff like ESP32s. Or whatever other 3v3 mcu based projects like arduino of black pill etc. Very useful.
I think the biggest thing in that datasheet is to be really careful when soldering them by hand. Not to go too hot with the iron and dump too much heat into them. Because they are such tiny SMDs and it can damage them. So maybe something else in a larger package would be better idea. Or otherwise doing some board preheating (according to their profile). And then a hot air gun. Since after soldering onto the target device it is difficult to 'test them safely'. Lets put it that way. Unless can do on some other separate test board first, and have equipment to measure them etc. like Joe smith does with his transients generator for multimeter testing.
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One thing I've noticed is that, when using an official JBC tip (C245-774), the station seems to cycle the tip power much more aggressively, causing the temperature to waver a lot more than the knock-off tips. The tips that came with the station get a pulse of 1-3% power every few seconds to keep the temperature stable, but the JBC tip gets a 10-13% pulse, causing the temperature to go up and down over a 10 degree span. Not really an issue at all, but all my other tips are rock solid temperature-wise. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this.
On the knockoff tip front, I have the 1.6mm chisel and 3mm hoof tips from this vendor and they're really good so far, although still limited in terms of power delivery. They max out at 25% on the power draw while even the skinny 1.2x0.3 JBC tip gets up to 40% when pushed.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002997292071.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002997292071.html)
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@ramphands, it makes sense - looks like evidence of less thermal conduction in non-original tips. It takes only 2% of power to keep the **inside** of the tip hot with non-original tip, but with the original one because of better thermal conductivity between the heater core and outside air - it cools faster and that necessitates more power injection to keep the temperature the same... And it's supported by your second finding of max 25% vs max 40% - no matter how hard you try to cool it (by sticking the very tip into a glass of water, for example) - only a small amount of energy **can** be sucked away, so you only need 25% pulses to keep the **core** hot... not the tip... I bet if you x-ray the non-original - we would see a notable air gap between the core and the body of the tip... Sort of 900/936 heater+tip combo, sold for much more $$ :-). Still better than the true 936-tipped iron...
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ah ok... looking at the datasheet for the 0603ESDA-MLP1,
@dreamcat4: I'd try something like this:
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/esd351.pdf (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/esd351.pdf)
or similar from Bussman/Eaton if you prefer that brand. Don't worry about the capacitance value - super slow signal here :). Do worry about the package size - this one is 0402, I believe :o.
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Hi all,
I got my T3A yesterday :-/O
Well, schematics in 3... 2... 1... https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_schematics
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Then I think really Aixun should be more helpful in this regard and offer to send you a pre-flashed MCU. For a few bucks spare parts charge. If they want to preserve their firmwares.
I wrote to Aixun technical support. They didn't answer.
I described my problem here earlier.
... working on that "problem" ;) :-/O
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Then I think really Aixun should be more helpful in this regard and offer to send you a pre-flashed MCU. For a few bucks spare parts charge. If they want to preserve their firmwares.
I wrote to Aixun technical support. They didn't answer.
I described my problem here earlier.
... working on that "problem" ;) :-/O
Readout protection is NOT enabled :-+
https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
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Excellent! Thank you.
Now you need to purchase a programmer for GD. I have one for STM, but it won't fit.
I'll try programming again. If it does not work out, then I will buy a new processor and flash it.
But it's not soon - I'm in no hurry. I also have other soldering irons. And also the main work that takes time.
P.S. I looked at Aliexpress programmer GD-Link. Very expensive (compared to STM programmer)
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Excellent! Thank you.
Now you need to purchase a programmer for GD. I have one for STM, but it won't fit.
I'll try programming again. If it does not work out, then I will buy a new processor and flash it.
But it's not soon - I'm in no hurry. I also have other soldering irons. And also the main work that takes time.
P.S. I looked at Aliexpress programmer GD-Link. Very expensive (compared to STM programmer)
The STM programmer *should* work well, too, but I guess you need to use one of the open-source tools (I saw stmflash or stm32flash or so...). Also, you can just use any FT232/FT2232H/FT4232H, or whatever you have around that is supported by OpenOCD.
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Hi all,
I got my T3A yesterday :-/O
Well, schematics in 3... 2... 1... https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_schematics
which board revision is this for? there are 2 different revisions. sadly all of mine are the original ones while i wish they were the newer one but im curious. ahh now i see it was rev 1.2. all of mine are on 1.1.
i wish i could get new boards for the front they seem to be okay for the most part but we did loose 2 of them now. i have not had time to go through them yet but its not the power supply on them. one will not recognize the tip inserted, tried brand new handle from another unit that has never been used before and works fine in another t3a. and the other no longer controls the temp properly. it shows proper temp on screen but turns the tip bright red. i do wonder if either of these would have been better protected with the 1.2 revision. i have been out of the office and no one is sure what happened to either. we did have some random power outages but nothing else has been damaged. i have been away from the office due to cancer treatments. so far out of the 20 we lost those 2. they did have a lot of time soldering on them though. kind of sucks if i waited like a month we would have 1.2 units not that it may have saved these 2 but i do wonder. so far no response from them when i asked if i could buy new board or even a whole new front panel for them. they only responded offering to sell me 2 units for normal price.
i have personally been mostly using the 420d at home over the t3a or t3b lately since bringing it home. i do have 3 brand new t3a i never used i may end up selling just because i have the 420d now. they do have the older stand though undecided yet.
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Hi all,
I got my T3A yesterday :-/O
Well, schematics in 3... 2... 1... https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_schematics
which board revision is this for? there are 2 different revisions. sadly all of mine are the original ones while i wish they were the newer one but im curious. ahh now i see it was rev 1.2. all of mine are on 1.1.
i wish i could get new boards for the front they seem to be okay for the most part but we did loose 2 of them now. i have not had time to go through them yet but its not the power supply on them. one will not recognize the tip inserted, tried brand new handle from another unit that has never been used before and works fine in another t3a. and the other no longer controls the temp properly. it shows proper temp on screen but turns the tip bright red.
Ouch. This really sounds like the ESD problems mentioned earlier in this thread... probably the GPIO/ADC got killed :/ Maybe also the op-amp... I'd suggest swapping the MCU.
i do wonder if either of these would have been better protected with the 1.2 revision.
Nope. From looking at the v1.1 pictures, it's is mostly the same:
- v1.2 has another additional reverse protection diode - for VBUS from USB-C IIRC
- v1.2 has proper pads for the Z-diode on the VR
i have been out of the office and no one is sure what happened to either. we did have some random power outages but nothing else has been damaged. i have been away from the office due to cancer treatments. so far out of the 20 we lost those 2. they did have a lot of time soldering on them though. kind of sucks if i waited like a month we would have 1.2 units not that it may have saved these 2 but i do wonder. so far no response from them when i asked if i could buy new board or even a whole new front panel for them. they only responded offering to sell me 2 units for normal price.
Yay, customer service at it's best. The front glass could probably easily be cloned with cnc milled acrylic glass, a bit of masking tape and spray paint >:D
i have personally been mostly using the 420d at home over the t3a or t3b lately since bringing it home. i do have 3 brand new t3a i never used i may end up selling just because i have the 420d now. they do have the older stand though undecided yet.
TBH I highly doubt the T420D is protected any better...
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ah ok... looking at the datasheet for the 0603ESDA-MLP1,
@dreamcat4: I'd try something like this: ti esd351
ok thanks for the recommendation. have now made a shortlist of 3 options for tvs diode. which are in stock at digikey...
1) the original 1st option for the eaton. (put forward by myself). it simply doesnt have a low clamping voltage. so that feature isnt going to work. but it is suitable for protecting against esd discharges. while being faster (for higher speed applications). and the package is larger. so should be a bit easier to solder
https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/eaton-electronics-division/0603ESDA-MLP1/14645727 (https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/eaton-electronics-division/0603ESDA-MLP1/14645727)
2) then your ti suggestion. is with a low-ish clamping voltage. and indeed it should be appropriate for most popular typical 3v3 or 5v mcus
https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/ESD351DPYR/9597828 (https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/ESD351DPYR/9597828)
3) then i also found this other alternative from diodes inc. which seems like it has roughly similar specs to the ti one with a low clamping voltage. but i didnt bother to check it. so it might be better or worse in some ways idk
https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/diodes-incorporated/DESD3V3E1BL-7B/10295151 (https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/diodes-incorporated/DESD3V3E1BL-7B/10295151)
anyhow tvs diode is recommended here (for handle sense input). along with replacing those electrolytic caps in the psu. for anybody who was paying attention. and wants to get a maximum operating life from their unit
also wanted to know if we need anymore tvs elsewhere. for example on the thermocouple adc input. but it should already be buffered behind the op-amp right?
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also wanted to know if we need anymore tvs elsewhere. for example on the thermocouple adc input. but it should already be buffered behind the op-amp right?
When I check the schematics (thanks c0d3z3r0 !) - I see that there are total of three MCU-leading lines, one is the input I've put protection on (stand detect aka "Port1"), also there is "ID" and there is "Shake" . The remaining two are traveling "to outside" through the wiring towards the handle, so technically - also need to be protected. But... in order to add TVSs - one would need to access the front board, which is behind the glued front acrylic panel... Also, those inputs are in a more controlled environment, not as exposed as the back-panel stand sensing input. So, all in all I will probably pass on trying to add protection to these (and another one - temp sensing via opamp)... Too much hassle.
For myself I'm settling on just being careful ESD-wise when disconnecting (rarely if ever!) the handle connector from the base. I'm not in a high-speed manufacturing environment, so when I change the tips - I don't mind to turn off the base and do it in a controlled fashion, letting the tip to cool down before swapping it. Time for a cup of tea :-). This reduces the risk of mishaps during tip removal and insertion. And again, I rest my hands on a dissipating, grounded mat when I swap tips.
If I recall correctly, one of the users has menioned earlier in this trail that the "no dormancy" problem started once they have swapped the tips. I'm just thinking common sense here - hot tip, mechanical contacts surrounded by plastic, plus likely non-original quality of plastic and accuracy of handle manufacturing. Softened plastic moves under mechanical forces, contacts touch where they shouldn't, maybe arcing, maybe sending +24V down the signal lines... Lots of things could go wrong...
Will see how my T3A will behave under my light use, hopefully it will last. I'll keep checking this message trail as well :-).
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also wanted to know if we need anymore tvs elsewhere. for example on the thermocouple adc input. but it should already be buffered behind the op-amp right?
When I check the schematics (thanks c0d3z3r0 !) - I see that there are total of three MCU-leading lines, one is the input I've put protection on (stand detect aka "Port1"), also there is "ID" and there is "Shake" . The remaining two are traveling "to outside" through the wiring towards the handle, so technically - also need to be protected. But... in order to add TVSs - one would need to access the front board, which is behind the glued front acrylic panel... Also, those inputs are in a more controlled environment, not as exposed as the back-panel stand sensing input. So, all in all I will probably pass on trying to add protection to these (and another one - temp sensing via opamp)... Too much hassle.
The inputs on the connector probably are not that much affected by air discharge, as the spark would hopefully just go to the case. Also, one usually doesn't touch the pins (human body model), not even inadvertently I guess, and even then one would touch the case first anyway). But the handle might still be loaded and cause contact discharge (charged device model).
The ESD protection of the MCU can handle 4kV in human body model and 750V in charge device model. I wouldn't bet on it tbh.
The stand detect input (PORT1) is heavily at risk of both air and contact discharge in both models.
Now, what I did was this:
- slaughter a dead lenovo x260 mainboard to get two of the TVS packages (IP4223CZ6) and a common mode choke
- place one on the four inputs near the connector, before the diodes
- place the other on USB data lines; also cut the USB data lines and insert that common mode choke
- cut the traces between diodes/pull-up of ID, PORT1, SHAKE and the MCU and place 0201 series resistors:
- 10k for PORT1 - max of what was possible without breaking the signal completely (100k was toooo much, 50k either)
- 1k for SHAKE (probably 10k would work, too, but 1k should be more than enough here and I can't test it anyways due to using T245 only)
- 200R for ID (to not influence the detection via voltage divider too much)
- for PORT1: move pull-up R26 (and rip off pad... R.I.P. pad) between diode D5 and series resistor to not build a voltage divider, which would break the active-low signal
- patch the firmware to *not* use an additional pull-up on the GPIO (again, this would result in a voltage divider and break the active-low signal)
- find out that the firmware does a crc16 check and patch that as well....
Maybe 100R would have been enough but since 10k/1k/200R worked I didn't want to try lower values.
For the TEMP input I only have connected the TVS, without adding a series resistor. I a new design one would want to protect the MCU from a failing OpAmp, too. However, this would need more firmware patching. Thus, I just hope that that the TVS is enough here...
Some pictures from this odyssey:
First, I had to solve a chicken-egg-problem :scared: Yeeeeaaah.... I've chosen the cheap tip, not my shiny new originals :P
[attach=1]
This definitely did not become my best solder work, but what do you expect with that hacky "solder station"? :-DD
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
[attach=7]
[attach=8]
[attach=9]
For myself I'm settling on just being careful ESD-wise when disconnecting (rarely if ever!) the handle connector from the base. I'm not in a high-speed manufacturing environment, so when I change the tips - I don't mind to turn off the base and do it in a controlled fashion, letting the tip to cool down before swapping it. Time for a cup of tea :-). This reduces the risk of mishaps during tip removal and insertion. And again, I rest my hands on a dissipating, grounded mat when I swap tips.
Well, I don't want to disappoint you, but shit happens ;) Also, see above (charged device model).
If I recall correctly, one of the users has menioned earlier in this trail that the "no dormancy" problem started once they have swapped the tips. I'm just thinking common sense here - hot tip, mechanical contacts surrounded by plastic, plus likely non-original quality of plastic and accuracy of handle manufacturing. Softened plastic moves under mechanical forces, contacts touch where they shouldn't, maybe arcing, maybe sending +24V down the signal lines... Lots of things could go wrong...
Will see how my T3A will behave under my light use, hopefully it will last. I'll keep checking this message trail as well :-).
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The stand detect input (PORT1) is heavily at risk of both air and contact discharge in both models.
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Well, I don't want to disappoint you, but shit happens ;) Also, see above (charged device model).
That's exactly why I did protect the stand input with optocoupler plus ESD protection of the +24V rail I had to use for the LED side of the optocoupler. From a risk management perspective - I'm satisfied with this balance.
BTW, the Charged Device Model implies transition of: "no contact with ground, no potential" --> "potential build-up (via tribocharging/induction)" --> "contact with a path to ground, discharge!". With the handle attached nearly permanently to the base, chances are there is always a path for potential to continuously flow towards ground, without much chance for high-level potential to build up... those "T4" reverse-protection diodes (likely equivalent of 1N4148) are not ideal, they do have reverse leakage current of at least few uA, so any slow electrostatic potential buildup (regardless of + or - ) will likely leak via that diode, 4K7 resistor, to power rail, through the power supply circuits, towards ground. At 5uA (that is at 75V reverse, at 20V reverse it leaks less, but still not zero) - it's equivalent of 15 megaohm.
The primary risk for those pins is when the handle gets connected / disconnected. Keep it connected and when you do disconnect - don't stick your charged pinky into the connector on the base (or touch its rim first) :-). With connect/disconnect transactions minimized - the risk is minimized as well. I also suspect that in T245 handle those detection wires either are not connected or looped to the ground right in the handle's connector (except the T sensor) - not much point in running long wires to the actual handle, our friends in China would rather save $1 on that extra copper :-). Even less chance of static induction.
NOW, you've provoked me to think outside of the box, literally. I got an idea now - we can introduce protection without ripping the front panel! I'm now thinking about finding two connectors (male & female) matching the ones used on the base & handle. Between those connectors we can place proper TVSs between each exposed MCU line and ground, maybe in a tiny metal enclosure (similar to RF filters/measurement equipment input dividers, etc.). Then the new "adapter" can be left permanently attached to the base and the exposed side will have "TVS-ed" lines only... Hmm... :-)
I admire your determination to make AiXun's product better. Now that you've modified the firmware - you may want to think about how to prevent auto firmware update. If AiXun software (Windows) doesn't make any further checks (like refusing to update a firmware with unknown checksum/hash) - it may silently overwrite the modified firmware with a newer version, on connection - your modifications could be lost then... Or just remember to never install their software again :-). Good luck in your endeavours!
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thinking about finding two connectors (male & female) matching the ones used on the base & handle. Between those connectors we can place proper TVSs between each exposed MCU line and ground, maybe in a tiny metal enclosure (similar to RF filters/measurement equipment input dividers, etc.). Then the new "adapter" can be left permanently attached to the base and the exposed side will have "TVS-ed" lines only... Hmm... :-)
see i like this thinking. however (for completely un-related reasons).... i did not want to put that extra little PCB in the back of the main base unit for myself. because (in my mind) I was hoping that perhaps there was enough room back there to somehow relocated the GH5 connector from the front of the unit. to the back of the unit. just to make the wiring more neater.
however also another idea I was hoping might be possible was making the cradle an extension for that same GH5. and pass thru the handle wire via the cradle.... except this t3a cradle is made of plastic and does not actually have a gh5 connector on it. But there is another version of the stand (perhaps for t3b?) that does?
[edit] and possibly changing the gh-5 aviation connector for a gh-6. then no longer need that extra seperate wire for the idle detection (labelled in port 1). because then you can remove that jack from the back of the base station and make some room to relocate the gh-5 (---> gh-6) connector itself. maybe also remove the other +24v dc output barrel jack. and or remove or relocate the esd jack on the read panel too
anyhow... so with either of those above 2 mods. then perhaps might also give the necessary opportunity to add those TVS diodes on the GH pins? to be a bit less clunky?
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The stand detect input (PORT1) is heavily at risk of both air and contact discharge in both models.
...
Well, I don't want to disappoint you, but shit happens ;) Also, see above (charged device model).
That's exactly why I did protect the stand input with optocoupler plus ESD protection of the +24V rail I had to use for the LED side of the optocoupler. From a risk management perspective - I'm satisfied with this balance.
I see. Well, there are most often many ways :-)
BTW, the Charged Device Model implies transition of: "no contact with ground, no potential" --> "potential build-up (via tribocharging/induction)" --> "contact with a path to ground, discharge!".
Correct. This is exactly what applies to the unconnected handle aka charged device.
With the handle attached nearly permanently to the base, chances are there is always a path for potential to continuously flow towards ground, without much chance for high-level potential to build up...
"nearly"? ;) That one time it isn't could kill the station. I agree, from a risk management perspective, though :)
those "T4" reverse-protection diodes (likely equivalent of 1N4148) are not ideal, they do have reverse leakage current of at least few uA, so any slow electrostatic potential buildup (regardless of + or - ) will likely leak via that diode, 4K7 resistor, to power rail, through the power supply circuits, towards ground. At 5uA (that is at 75V reverse, at 20V reverse it leaks less, but still not zero) - it's equivalent of 15 megaohm.
The primary risk for those pins is when the handle gets connected / disconnected. Keep it connected and when you do disconnect - don't stick your charged pinky into the connector on the base (or touch its rim first) :-). With connect/disconnect transactions minimized - the risk is minimized as well. I also suspect that in T245 handle those detection wires either are not connected or looped to the ground right in the handle's connector (except the T sensor) - not much point in running long wires to the actual handle, our friends in China would rather save $1 on that extra copper :-). Even less chance of static induction.
NOW, you've provoked me to think outside of the box, literally. I got an idea now - we can introduce protection without ripping the front panel!
Removing the panel was totally easy for me, actually. I heated it up to 180°C and used such thin metal thingy sold for smartphone repair to separate it. Afterwards, I glued it back with T-7000, making any subsequent removal substantially easier.
I'm now thinking about finding two connectors (male & female) matching the ones used on the base & handle. Between those connectors we can place proper TVSs between each exposed MCU line and ground, maybe in a tiny metal enclosure (similar to RF filters/measurement equipment input dividers, etc.). Then the new "adapter" can be left permanently attached to the base and the exposed side will have "TVS-ed" lines only... Hmm... :-)
Nice approach!
I admire your determination to make AiXun's product better. Now that you've modified the firmware - you may want to think about how to prevent auto firmware update. If AiXun software (Windows) doesn't make any further checks (like refusing to update a firmware with unknown checksum/hash) - it may silently overwrite the modified firmware with a newer version, on connection - your modifications could be lost then... Or just remember to never install their software again :-). Good luck in your endeavours!
Well, that would imply using their software for firmware updates. I just dumped and flashed back via SWD. Heh! I forgot TVS'es for the SWD wires! |O :-DD
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thinking about finding two connectors (male & female) matching the ones used on the base & handle. Between those connectors we can place proper TVSs between each exposed MCU line and ground, maybe in a tiny metal enclosure (similar to RF filters/measurement equipment input dividers, etc.). Then the new "adapter" can be left permanently attached to the base and the exposed side will have "TVS-ed" lines only... Hmm... :-)
see i like this thinking. however (for completely un-related reasons).... i did not want to put that extra little PCB in the back of the main base unit for myself. because (in my mind) I was hoping that perhaps there was enough room back there to somehow relocated the GH5 connector from the front of the unit. to the back of the unit. just to make the wiring more neater.
however also another idea I was hoping might be possible was making the cradle an extension for that same GH5. and pass thru the handle wire via the cradle.... except this t3a cradle is made of plastic and does not actually have a gh5 connector on it. But there is another version of the stand (perhaps for t3b?) that does?
Nice idea! You could add the connectors to the stand. I saw someone doing that... can't find it right now.
[edit] and possibly changing the gh-5 aviation connector for a gh-6. then no longer need that extra seperate wire for the idle detection (labelled in port 1). because then you can remove that jack from the back of the base station and make some room to relocate the gh-5 (---> gh-6) connector itself. maybe also remove the other +24v dc output barrel jack. and or remove or relocate the esd jack on the read panel too
anyhow... so with either of those above 2 mods. then perhaps might also give the necessary opportunity to add those TVS diodes on the GH pins? to be a bit less clunky?
Hmm, you can still use GX12-5, when using the shield as GND and the original GND pin for the stand detect
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Thanks for these help.... this was the guy here. Who modified the stand:
Inspired by cfg5 user I made modification to new aixun t3a stand. I like the fact that I can change tips quickly same as with jbc stand.
Fantastic. Definately I want to try to do the same thing on mine.
However we still would prefer to need the tvs diodes inside the base unit, to be closer to the mcu and protect against hands touching of those pins on the gx12-5 connector. So I will take apart the back of my base station. And see how much room is there. Probably not very much. Because to retro fit a gz12-5 at the rear, it requires some depth to accommodate that panel mount connector.
[edit]
Yes, after removal of the +24v barrel jack (for aux / optional power out). Then this leaves a factory hole of diameter 12.0mm. The standard (same) gx12-5 pcb mount connector, will slide exactly though into this factory hole. It's almost like they designed it that way. To give an option. But then changed their minds and put the gx12-5 on the front panel instead. Where it can be relocated on the back... the depth will intrude 13.0mm into the chassis rear cavity. There is then a further 6.0mm of clearance before reaching the edge of the PSU pcb (at 19mm behind the rear panel).
If you solder the gx12-5 onto a little daughter board pcb. Or veroboard. Things like this. For then attaching TVS diodes and relay wires to take it to the front control board. Then you will still have the full 6.0mm of clearance remaining to insert some insulation sheet or plastic cards. To keep it isolated away from the 240v ac mains PSU.
Another mod i want to look into is push rod to back panel power switch. However that requires getting out the hot air station. To remove glue of the front plastic.
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Another mod i want to look into is push rod to back panel power switch. However that requires getting out the hot air station. To remove glue of the front plastic.
No plastic, it's actually real glass! :)
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Just got my t3a. Any tips on using it safely?
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was just about to place my order at mouser to get the needed tvs diodes... but then there was a hold up. after remembering those capacitors for psu. however mouser doesnt have the last 2 of those caps. Went back to the parametric search to find alternatives with similar specs....
3rd in list:
PART: 1189-3155-ND
PART: 1189-1890-ND
MFG : RUBYCON / 35ZLH470MEFC10X16
DESC: CAP ALUM 470UF 20% 35V RADIAL COO : INDONESIA
Yields 3 results on mouser (1st 2 of those 3 results are the same cap, just different packaging):
https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded/?capacitance=470%20uF&diameter=10%20mm&esr=28%20mOhms~~30%20mOhms&lead%20spacing=5%20mm&life=10000%20Hour~~12000%20Hour&maximum%20operating%20temperature=%2B%20105%20C~~%2B%20135%20C&ripple%20current=2%20A~~2.5%20A&voltage%20rating%20dc=35%20VDC~~250%20VDC&instock=y&sort=pricing&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded%7C~Voltage%20Rating%20DC%7C~Maximum%20Operating%20Temperature%7C~Life%7C~Ripple%20Current%7C~ESR (https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded/?capacitance=470%20uF&diameter=10%20mm&esr=28%20mOhms~~30%20mOhms&lead%20spacing=5%20mm&life=10000%20Hour~~12000%20Hour&maximum%20operating%20temperature=%2B%20105%20C~~%2B%20135%20C&ripple%20current=2%20A~~2.5%20A&voltage%20rating%20dc=35%20VDC~~250%20VDC&instock=y&sort=pricing&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded%7C~Voltage%20Rating%20DC%7C~Maximum%20Operating%20Temperature%7C~Life%7C~Ripple%20Current%7C~ESR)
4th in list:
PART: 1189-50YXM10MEFRTA5X11CT-ND
MFG : RUBYCON (VA) / 50YXM10MEFRTA5X11
DESC: CAP ALUM 10UF 20% 50V RADIAL COO : JAPAN
Yields 5 alternatives on mouser:
https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded/?capacitance=10%20uF&lead%20spacing=2%20mm&life=10000%20Hour~~15000%20Hour%7C~20000%20Hour&maximum%20operating%20temperature=%2B%20105%20C%7C~%2B%20125%20C~~%2B%20135%20C%7C~%2B%20150%20C&ripple%20current=90%20mA~~210%20mA&voltage%20rating%20dc=50%20VDC~~63%20VDC%7C~80%20VDC~~100%20VDC%7C~160%20VDC%7C~200%20VDC%7C~250%20VDC%7C~315%20VDC%7C~350%20VDC%7C~400%20VDC~~500%20VDC&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded%7C~Voltage%20Rating%20DC%7C~Maximum%20Operating%20Temperature%7C~Life%7C~Ripple%20Current&sort=pricing (https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded/?capacitance=10%20uF&lead%20spacing=2%20mm&life=10000%20Hour~~15000%20Hour%7C~20000%20Hour&maximum%20operating%20temperature=%2B%20105%20C%7C~%2B%20125%20C~~%2B%20135%20C%7C~%2B%20150%20C&ripple%20current=90%20mA~~210%20mA&voltage%20rating%20dc=50%20VDC~~63%20VDC%7C~80%20VDC~~100%20VDC%7C~160%20VDC%7C~200%20VDC%7C~250%20VDC%7C~315%20VDC%7C~350%20VDC%7C~400%20VDC~~500%20VDC&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded%7C~Voltage%20Rating%20DC%7C~Maximum%20Operating%20Temperature%7C~Life%7C~Ripple%20Current&sort=pricing)
So if anybody knows which of is best matching alternative? Otherwise if it doesn't matter and should just order the cheapest of each?
Then can place my order. Since all else is ordered for mods now :-+
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aaaaaand another stand mod
ooh, heh, I need to clean that tip I used to melt the nuts in lol
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thank you very good!
just a reminder that it is necessary to be a bit careful not to mess up those black plastic rings, which are sitting in the countersunk bottom row of holes. Because we have seen that cause issues in the past.
the issue i am referring to was:
if the black plastic rings on the cartridge are messed up or if they are dimensionally out of spec, (on some fake clone tips). then it may create issues for inserting the cartridge into the handle, to get it properly seated. either the cartridge does not go in far enough. or it goes in too far. which of course can often have some variety of negative consequences
perhaps you are already ok there with your mod, so long as there are no sharp edges to cut into the plastic over time (many uses). if those hand drilled holes were all deburred properly. i just cannot see easily that levels of detail from your photo here. There may also be other good ways to protect them. For example to give a softer cushion. like cover in a layer of a silicone that sets (plugging the holes). or adding little plastic washers. or other ways. Such that the weight of the cartridge is resting only on a metal sections (and not plastic sections)
:-//
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thank you very good!
just a reminder that it is necessary to be a bit careful not to mess up those black plastic rings, which are sitting in the countersunk bottom row of holes. Because we have seen that cause issues in the past.
the issue i am referring to was:
if the black plastic rings on the cartridge are messed up or if they are dimensionally out of spec, (on some fake clone tips). then it may create issues for inserting the cartridge into the handle, to get it properly seated. either the cartridge does not go in far enough. or it goes in too far. which of course can often have some variety of negative consequences
perhaps you are already ok there with your mod, so long as there are no sharp edges to cut into the plastic over time (many uses). if those hand drilled holes were all deburred properly. i just cannot see easily that levels of detail from your photo here. There may also be other good ways to protect them. For example to give a softer cushion. like cover in a layer of a silicone that sets (plugging the holes). or adding little plastic washers. or other ways. Such that the weight of the cartridge is resting only on a metal sections (and not plastic sections)
:-//
Yeah, I have seen some of these reportings :S I've chamfered the holes, so the tips center themselves and easily slip through the holes, at least when you let them fall more or less straightly. Also I took care to not have any sharp edges. We'll see how it goes :-)
Another approach could have been using pipes and sealing them with a plug (or epoxy \o/) on the lower end. That would have been more effort, though, without having a circular or band saw at hand.
Fun fact: even the original tips are not all exactly the same regarding sizes and quality of the plastic rings... :S And yes, I have bought them from an authorized distributor.
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Today I discovered something really weird..... When touching the connectors shield with the handle´s top, the tip starts buzzing!
So, I started to measure...
Voltage between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0V
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and earth: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and earth: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Resistance between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0 \$\Omega\$
Resistance between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield (IOW resistance of cable + connector on both sides + shielding): 0 \$\Omega\$, Huh?!
Note: ~0.1-0.2 \$\Omega\$ in the picture is caused by the measuring tips
WHAT!? How's that possible? The tip GND / handle top metal is connected to GND/earth and it doesn't make any sense to me that there would be any potential :o
What am I missing? :-//
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Voltage between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0V
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and earth: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and earth: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Resistance between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0 \$\Omega\$
Resistance between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield (IOW resistance of cable + connector on both sides + shielding): 0 \$\Omega\$, Huh?!
Note: ~0.1-0.2 \$\Omega\$ in the picture is caused by the measuring tips
WHAT!? How's that possible? The tip GND / handle top metal is connected to GND/earth and it doesn't make any sense to me that there would be any potential :o
What am I missing? :-//
well i just took some passive measurements on my handle. And also looked at the PCB seperately and the markings on it.
Then finally i poked a feeler wire (a very long and thin precision screwdriver) down into the hole. Where the cartridge goes....
What seems to be (according to my preliminary findings, take with a pinch of salt).... is that the metal RING (around the end of the handle, that the cartridge sits in). This is not actually connected to GND at all.
That METAL RING has 2.3Mohm (yes mega ohms) to pin 3, which is marked "ID" (perhaps this means idle detect? IDK).
And it has about 6.4Mohm (again mega ohms). To pin 1 on the GX12-5 connector. Which is marked as "S" on the front panel pcb. Again I simply don't know / am not entirely sure what that is supposed to be for. Because I have not looked into that yet.
Anyhow getting back to the point...
Only when you physically insert a C245 cartridge into the handle, does it actually physically connect the METAL RING (on the outside)... to bridge to the pin 4 GND on the GX12-5 connector.
And this bridging is part way down the length of the solder tip. So... you might be seeing the effects of the "2.9 ohms" being split part way down. With some low voltage potential. Because you are in effect measuring onto the cartridge itself. There was a cut away / cut through photo of a cartridge somewhere else on this forum. And it showed the internal geometry of the tip, and the amount of the thickness of the metal coming into the end of the tip, and returning back. And where the thermocouple was etc.
Effectively you have something which is not exactly a 0 ohms metal. It's designed to be converting the current to heat. So it seems reasonable to expect a non-zero potential at some places on that structure... sorry I cannot help further.
Over here I am still trying to figure out how to do this wiring, and completely forgot to order some 6 cores (multi core) silicone cable. That will delay me some weeks now dammnit.... Knew I forgot to order something.
:palm: :palm: :palm:
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Voltage between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0V
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and earth: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and earth: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Resistance between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0 \$\Omega\$
Resistance between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield (IOW resistance of cable + connector on both sides + shielding): 0 \$\Omega\$, Huh?!
Note: ~0.1-0.2 \$\Omega\$ in the picture is caused by the measuring tips
WHAT!? How's that possible? The tip GND / handle top metal is connected to GND/earth and it doesn't make any sense to me that there would be any potential :o
What am I missing? :-//
well i just took some passive measurements on my handle. And also looked at the PCB seperately and the markings on it.
Then finally i poked a feeler wire (a very long and thin precision screwdriver) down into the hole. Where the cartridge goes....
What seems to be (according to my preliminary findings, take with a pinch of salt).... is that the metal RING (around the end of the handle, that the cartridge sits in). This is not actually connected to GND at all.
Erm, yeah, with "handle top metal" I actually meant this metal ring. It is connected to GND, but only when a tip is inserted. :D
That METAL RING has 2.3Mohm (yes mega ohms) to pin 3, which is marked "ID" (perhaps this means idle detect? IDK).
Weird... well ID really means ID. It is used to detect which handle is inserted by a) pulling low (T245) or b) pulling high c) resistor for the other two types (T12, and... the other one). And naaaaaah.... the 2.3Mohm is what you measure through the MC ;)
And it has about 6.4Mohm (again mega ohms). To pin 1 on the GX12-5 connector. Which is marked as "S" on the front panel pcb. Again I simply don't know / am not entirely sure what that is supposed to be for. Because I have not looked into that yet.
"S" is the shake sensor pin for T12 handles. And same here, 6.4Mohm is the MC resistance. Try to measure "S" to earth/GND. Should be the same value.
Anyhow getting back to the point...
Only when you physically insert a C245 cartridge into the handle, does it actually physically connect the METAL RING (on the outside)... to bridge to the pin 4 GND on the GX12-5 connector.
And this bridging is part way down the length of the solder tip. So... you might be seeing the effects of the "2.9 ohms" being split part way down. With some low voltage potential. Because you are in effect measuring onto the cartridge itself. There was a cut away / cut through photo of a cartridge somewhere else on this forum. And it showed the internal geometry of the tip, and the amount of the thickness of the metal coming into the end of the tip, and returning back. And where the thermocouple was etc.
Effectively you have something which is not exactly a 0 ohms metal. It's designed to be converting the current to heat. So it seems reasonable to expect a non-zero potential at some places on that structure... sorry I cannot help further.
Uhm, well. The "something [...] converting current to heat" is the heater wire, which ofc has some resistance. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/?action=dlattach;attach=946118 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/?action=dlattach;attach=946118)
The outer metal is definitely 0 Ohms
Also take a look a my measurements again. It is 0 Ohms from that metal ring to GND, and that's why I'm so confused....
Over here I am still trying to figure out how to do this wiring, and completely forgot to order some 6 cores (multi core) silicone cable. That will delay me some weeks now dammnit.... Knew I forgot to order something.
:palm: :palm: :palm:
:(
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ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning
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ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning
Oops, I wanted to say MCU.
So, you had measured that with the handle attached, right?
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ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning
Oops, I wanted to say MCU.
So, you had measured that with the handle attached, right?
no :-//
Sorry for the confusion. What I measured (the several mega ohms) was on the handle only by itself. Fully unplugged, nothing else at all, not the cartridge, and not base station / controller pcb.
Understandable because I was referencing those symbols written on PCB silkscreen around where the GX12-5 connector is soldered. I just meant those are the corresponding pins that the handle would then connect to when is later plugged in. But the handle was unplugged fully from everything when i took those measurements.
I remember there was somebody out there who managed to disassemble one of these chinese T245 handles i just have not had time to watch this video...
[edit] however this is not the aixun handle. it is a different model chinese clone station / handle might be slightly different here... But at least it shows for how to open the handle without incurring so much damages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekg2QZa0ghE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekg2QZa0ghE)
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ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning
Oops, I wanted to say MCU.
So, you had measured that with the handle attached, right?
no :-//
Sorry for the confusion. What I measured (the several mega ohms) was on the handle only by itself. Fully unplugged, nothing else at all, not the cartridge, and not base station / controller pcb.
Understandable because I was referencing those symbols written on PCB silkscreen around where the GX12-5 connector is soldered. I just meant those are the corresponding pins that the handle would then connect to when is later plugged in. But the handle was unplugged fully from everything when i took those measurements.
I remember there was somebody out there who managed to disassemble one of these chinese T245 handles i just have not had time to watch this video...
[edit] however this is not the aixun handle. it is a different model chinese clone station / handle might be slightly different here... But at least it shows for how to open the handle without incurring so much damages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekg2QZa0ghE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekg2QZa0ghE)
Oh, oops. Then these resistances don't make any sense. Also, I cannot reproduce that here.
I had opened the handle and it's connected this way:
GX12-5 pin handle / tip
5 + ---------------- heater (middle)
4 GND ------+-------- GND (top metal)
|
3 ID ------+
2 T(EMP) ---------------- temp (lower spike)
1 S(HAKE) -----x
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so sorry for my late reply
Because earlier today found out just how super easy it is to unscrew the GX12-5 aviation connector on the handle. To peek the exposed wiring there. (rather than fully try to fully dismantle the more difficult plastics of the handle itself)... Was going to upload some photos later with annotated text to better illustrate. But you beat me to it! And thanks so much for including your wiring diagram ^^ in last post above here.
What happened? Well I just got distracted trying (utterly failing) to find missing specs on aliexpress. For to order most appropriate 6-core multicore silicone cable. To make for the new (to be added) extension lead. To daisy chain between base station and stand. 6th extra core to carry the stand idle detection wire.
Just aliexpress sellers, they hate to give out the full specs. No outer diameter measurement, is missing from all listings, every page!!! The total diameter needs to be approx 5.8mm (or close enough). To fit these GX12 size of connector. More or less, because the soft silicone is pretty stretchy / squishy.
Anyhow will post my photos later this evening regardless. For the aixun t245 handle wiring photos.
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Oh, oops. Then these resistances don't make any sense. Also, I cannot reproduce that here.
I had opened the handle and it's connected this way:
GX12-5 pin handle / tip
1 + ---------------- heater (middle)
2 GND ------+-------- GND (top metal)
|
3 ID ------+
4 T(EMP) ---------------- temp (lower spike)
5 S(HAKE) -----x
Yeah sorry I can go back and check my answer for the mega-ohms reading. Might just have been my multimeter just playing up or something. Giving incorrect false reading. Anyhow:
If you check my photos here (attached below). I think we have the same answer. Just you have mis-labelled the pin numbers. Because have flipped the connector by mistake. If you go back and re-check (again) the pin numbering written on the end of the connector. Will make sense to edit your post, and just re-number them.
Then is all exactly the same answer. Many thanks :-+
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If you check my photos here (attached below). I think we have the same answer. Just you have mis-labelled the pin numbers. Because have flipped the connector by mistake.
Good catch, thanks!
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@dreamcat4 so, do you have that weird noise, too, when touching the connector with the handle metal ring?
Oh, btw. the frequency is the same as the one coming from either the coil or this green cap here...... o.O it's always singing when heating *sigh*
[attachimg=1]
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sorry i cannot check that now. because my t3a is currently in a fully dissassembled state. and will most likely remain like this for the time being
if the noise is troubling then i would suggest perhaps consider to be speculatively replacing those part(s). which this i suppose is the point of your question (to better confirm).
what i can say is that my previous ksger t12 iron. it does exhibit an audible clicking when heating. when drawing a high current. however that noise is coming actually from a really old atx smps pc psu (thru also an rd tech dph3005 boost converter). but the noise really sounds like an inductor or something similar. and i just ignore the noise because it is harmless. and simply not annoying enough to be bothered about it.
anyhow that does not help you here. but much earlier (perhaps in this same thread). there is the guy who bought multiples of these aixun t3a. and some of the units are silent. whilst other units does perhaps exhibit the same sort of clicking noise. or whatever it is. so i recommend to try to search / find the previous posts about that here. to check if it is in fact the same issue
sorry my memory is not so good. to give a better help and find exactly those relevant past discussion. (the conversation was happening long time before i finally got my own unit here)
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The noise of the supply is caused by PWM for the heater. When connecting the heater directly to the supply, it's humming silently - waaaaaaay less disturbing compared to that heating noise, ugh.
Btw. this supply provides 15A!!!!!!! The transformer (and all the rest lol) is definitely not rated for that... holy moly... :bullshit:
Some more details on the supply:
- T12 near the transformer is not the part number (which is T1) but probably means this supply is a T12 solder station copy.
- PWM controller Chip-Rail CR6842(S) https://pdf.dzsc.com/88888/20086179315462.pdf
- recommended for <= 120W supplies
- R on RI is 24k -> ~72.5 kHz center frequency
Oh wow, if I'm not mistaken, they have messed up the over-current protection.
Instead of this:
MOSFET Source
|
| R_s
SENSE <---+------===------ GND
They have done this:
MOSFET Source
|
R_s |
SENSE <----------===----+-- GND
This completely breaks over-current protection :D
Edit: I was wrong!
MOSFET Source
|
680 | R10, R11 (0.43 each) -> R_s = 0.215
SENSE <----------===----+------+---===-----+--- GND
+---===-----+
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well yes, of course
the thing to realize is that the psu should have been designed for short bursts of power. rather than a high continuus power. it only needs to dump current in for about about 3 seconds to get the tip up to operating temperature so fast
once a c245 cartridge is actually soldering and heatsinking into a heavy ground plane. then the maximum power the tip can dissipate across that thermal junction becomes the limiting steady state continuus power draw. which is actually significantly lower... what was it supposed to be exactly depends on the size of the tip. but even for the biggest ones. probably never more than about 80 or 120w
so yes, i would expect the smps to be different or modified in certain ways. to enable higher burt current. (but only for short durations, of just a few seconds). and this is not exactly the same as most general typical off the shelf smps. in order to be so compact design here.
[edit] however presumably this is why we are replacing the electrolytic caps for higher quality ones. to last for a bit longer. with the extra work they are doing... (as am i myself, they are waiting on my desk here)
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well yes, of course
the thing to realize is that the psu should have been designed for short bursts of power. rather than a high continuus power. it only needs to dump current in for about about 3 seconds to get the tip up to operating temperature so fast
once a c245 cartridge is actually soldering and heatsinking into a heavy ground plane. then the maximum power the tip can dissipate across that thermal junction becomes the limiting steady state continuus power draw. which is actually significantly lower... what was it supposed to be exactly depends on the size of the tip. but even for the biggest ones. probably never more than about 80 or 120w
so yes, i would expect the smps to be different or modified in certain ways. to enable higher burt current. (but only for short durations, of just a few seconds). and this is not exactly the same as most general typical off the shelf smps. in order to be so compact design here.
Well, many off-the-shelf SMPS *do* support high burst current (some even up to 300 %). And they are compact as well. They are still protected to not kill the coil^^
Examples:
80W - 140% burst - https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/687/tpi50a_j_datasheet-2934377.pdf
150W - 170W peak, 2 sec - https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/643/belf_s_a0011739248_1-2290148.pdf
...
I had a look at the reference schematic for CR6842S and compare that to the T3A supply now. The supply is nothing special - or let's say "off-the-shelf"-like ;) They only modified the OC resistor to allow higher current, but I believe they have *not* upgraded the transformer as they should have. Also, as I said, 15A output current, which is delivered continuously, is highly suspicious....
[edit] however presumably this is why we are replacing the electrolytic caps for higher quality ones. to last for a bit longer. with the extra work they are doing... (as am i myself, they are waiting on my desk here)
Well, I'll wait until they break and replace then. Even if the PWM controllier dies, it's not a big deal. Just get one (or a pin/spec compatible like OB2269) on eBay.
Anyway, as long as there is no short circuit, you'd be fine with that supply. But.... protections are there for the worst case, so... hmmmm
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ah ok thanks! these clarifications were easier to understand now. and quite helpful :-+
indeed if you get an issue with the handle. or the cartridge mis-position (pushed in too far). then a short can potentially occur
actually on my previous t12 controller (with a cheap t12 handle). the handle was badly constructed. and a short did in fact occur. the result was that the switching mosfet very quickly burned itself. and catch on fire. which then messed up and delaminated the pcb.
by the time i could react, it was not in great shape, that area of the pcb. however with some glue i stuck the power traces layer back on. and repaired with a new mosfet. the pcb does have a crater in it. but still function is not affected
true what you are saying ocp could be better. so if there is a mod to existing smps (without replace whole entire smps. then that would be pretty cool. a worthwhile mod to include with the others
in terms of avoiding over current... i had already decided to remove the +24v output barrel jack on the rear. to replace it with the relocation of the gx12-5 from the front panel.
so at least that avoids over current coming from that optional feature. (so probably for the best it would seem)
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ah ok thanks! these clarifications were easier to understand now. and quite helpful :-+
indeed if you get an issue with the handle. or the cartridge mis-position (pushed in too far). then a short can potentially occur
actually on my previous t12 controller (with a cheap t12 handle). the handle was badly constructed. and a short did in fact occur. the result was that the switching mosfet very quickly burned itself. and catch on fire. which then messed up and delaminated the pcb.
OOOOOOF! :--
true what you are saying ocp could be better. so if there is a mod to existing smps (without replace whole entire smps. then that would be pretty cool. a worthwhile mod to include with the others
Yep, that's what I thought of. However, I'm having problems with the calculation tbh. The datasheet says more or like "it's as simple as I=U/R_s", but...
There are two mechanisms. "Constant Output Power Limit" and "Limited Power Control". Seems to be exactly, what I was talking about previously - constant and peak current.
R_sense controls the constant current, while *something* FB related controls peak.
They mention T_LPS for the second mechanism, but it's nowhere defined *sigh*.
For R_sense, whatever I try to calculate does not yield anything senseful (LOL).
in terms of avoiding over current... i had already decided to remove the +24v output barrel jack on the rear. to replace it with the relocation of the gx12-5 from the front panel.
so at least that avoids over current coming from that optional feature. (so probably for the best it would seem)
This 24V output is just a bullshit feature :-DD
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Then can place my order. Since all else is ordered for mods now :-+
ok, so the extra silicone cable needed to daisy chain the stand is available on aliexpress as:
"1M Sq 0.3 0.5 0.75 1 1.5 2 2.5 4 6mm Soft Silicone Rubber Cable 2 3 4 6 Cores Insulated Flexible Copper High Temperature Wire"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001454836110.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001454836110.html)
Black, Square 0.3mm, 4 Cores
which has 5.8mm outer diameter.
And the connector indeed can be the same GX12-5 because Pin 1 is not connected in the aixun T245 handle wiring. So then Pin 1 can be used for routing the stand idle detect wire.
This was the last thing I had to order for those aixun mods. But I also ordered some kits of nutserts / heatset / heat serts from aliexpress at the same time. For the extra tips holder mod by c0d3z3r0.
We should probably re-collect all of this as a full bom parts list. Including the TVS Diodes too. Instead of having them spread across so many different comments. Although maybe would prefer to defer that and then be clearer which TVS diodes, and which nutserts / heatserts were actually used in the end. After actually finishing all those mods.
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And the connector indeed can be the same GX12-5 because Pin 1 is not connected in the aixun T245 handle wiring. So then Pin 1 can be used for routing the stand idle detect wire.
This only applies to T245, not to T12 (and probably 936 as well), where the pin should be used. Do you have a T3A T12 handle to check?
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And the connector indeed can be the same GX12-5 because Pin 1 is not connected in the aixun T245 handle wiring. So then Pin 1 can be used for routing the stand idle detect wire.
This only applies to T245, not to T12 (and probably 936 as well), where the pin should be used. Do you have a T3A T12 handle to check?
if the person doing the mod wants to use a different handle than t245, firstly i would say dont do that. but secondly... well then you can instead just buy for similar price the 6 pin versions of these gx12-6 aviation connectors. and it will also fit perfectly on the rear panel of the main station base unit. on to the same existing hole to replace the existing +24v dc barrel jack mounting hole.
by doing that... then you cannot possibly confuse the new 6-pin extension cable going between the base station and the stand. because the handle will no longer be able to plug in. from 5 pins to 6. and then it also permits the 1 extra wire you might need. for the stand idle detect. (assuming the stand for other handle types will be capable support that feature).
the more important difference however.... is that then you cannot order the 0.3mm^2 sq (aka 22awg probably) 4-cores silicone cable. as per the spec given in my previous comment today. because only 4 wires is required for the t245 handle. as it has only 3 wires (+ add 1 extra to carry the stand idle detect signal to the stand). when other handles will need more wires. either 5 or 6.
so another handle needs more wires in the cable. then those wires will have to be thinner to keep the same overall outer diameter and fit the 5.8mm diameter hole. where we pass the whole sheath in through the hole of the metal casing of these gx12 aviation connector.
actually you can maybe use a bit thicker diameter by cutting the sheathing outer insulation short. and not pass it thru the hole (only bare wires). because the metal clamp with the 2 screwa and the gripping ridges. it clamps on just before the hole. but i just did not want to do that. for the sake of a better more durable cable. that is more secure not to pop out and become compromised. at that wear failure point of the strain relief. so ymmv
so anyhow. any for situation you can fit the 6 pins version connectors to the back of the base and stand (if you wish). also for using these t245 handle too. independant of how many cores must be the cable (either 4, 5, or 6?). however then wit a different number of pins. it is no longer going to be possible to optionally directly connect the handle cable to the back (bypassing the stand). which might be useful, for example: for mobile appications. or for unforseen situation where you forgot the stand. or lost the standd. or broke the stand. (or broke the cable to the stand). etc. etc.
so for any sensible person (to be smart enough to see the reasons, and get the t245t handle to begin with). for those who knows well enout for not to insist to get any other inferior performiance type handles... which is the entire point of this aixun t3a station to begin with. then there is no point to the 6-pin connector here... at all. just don't do it. and loose the compatibility to t12. its not worth the bother to keep compatible.
however if you do fit the 6-pin (for other handles compatibilirt). than can potentially also retro fit the t245 handle's cable with also a matching 6 pin. then it could indeed connect directly on to the back panel of the base unit. but then only the back (not both front and back). or instead you can keep the 5 pin of the front only. and 6 pin on the back. just you cannot upgrade the front to 6 pins (it cannot be because it fixes directly onto the controller pcb).
so there are indeed a variety of options it can be done. and that is all probably far too confusing for most people reading this explanation. then just order both types. get 3x gx12-5 and also 2-3 of the gx12-6. to decide later on during final assembly time. when you actually do the mod(s). however you are on your own with the extension cable specs. which needs to be right, because if the wires are too thin, those are carrying a substantial current and the cable length is being extended further. so try not to under spec the conductors thickness. (for more than 4 cores)
it probably would help too make pictures with labels. to show better all of those possible different alternative configurations. however i just don't see the point to recommend any of them. just use t245 aixun blue handle only. with 5 pin everywhere. and the 4 cores silicone wire between the base and the stand. for happy days / simple life. (and for the most flexible connectivity, and highest performance). why make things harder for yourself to create a worse solution. it does not seem worth it
:-//
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hmm. come to think of it... i am more concerned now that extending the cable does not mess up the tc junction / passing the thermocouple measurements.
since we are adding new metal - metal junctions with soldering this extra terminations in series.
in this event, then keeping the option remain the original gx12-5 connector on the front panel pcb. that is more desirable. as a way to go back to stock configuation. in case there is any such problems. with mis-reading of the temperature.
what i need to remind myself for. is to jog my memory to test for this in 2 weeks time. after last parts arrives. after doing the mod.
have got the cheap iron thermocouple temperature calibration tester. will need to use it. see if calibration stays the same with / without.
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I don't think that it has that much influence but yes, you can always recalibrate :)
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Hello guys, I have a question. I've been using this station for like a month and it was fine, well it still is, but the sleep function sometimes stops working, it's kinda random and I'm looking for a way to fix it. I noticed there's a missing connection between the the tip and the metal ring on the handle and it's probably the cause of the problem. Sorry I haven't read the thread completely. Did you guys manage to fix the problem?
Sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker
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Hello guys, I have a question. I've been using this station for like a month and it was fine, well it still is, but the sleep function sometimes stops working, it's kinda random and I'm looking for a way to fix it. I noticed there's a missing connection between the the tip and the metal ring on the handle and it's probably the cause of the problem. Sorry I haven't read the thread completely. Did you guys manage to fix the problem?
Sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker
The connection isn't really missing but it's not very solid. The outer connector of the tip only touches that metal ring. When one of both is corroded, the connection becoms unreliable. That probably is the reason, why JBC's original handles now have a silicon gasket [1].
First, I would try if touching the ejector with the tip directly makes it enter sleep mode. If yes, try to clean the tip and metal ring inside the handle. You can also *carefully* roughen both using some fine (400-600 or more) sand paper. However, both are just temporary solutions.
A longer lasting solution would be 1) using that gasket (haven't found any cheaper 3rd party gasket that would fit :( 8€ for a bit of silicon... wtf) and 2) somehow solder a tiny wire inside the handle to the metal ring (yeeeeah, that's FUN! :D I haven't tried.) and connect it to GND.
[1] https://shop.wetec.de/produkte/loettechnik/zubehoer/jbc/92664/jbc-verschlussstopfen
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How should I properly replace the tip? Do I need to press any button first?
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The 245 clone tips keep on failing after weeks of use on my T3A. Is it a firmware issue or something else?
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8€ for a bit of silicon...
Don't know about Europe, but I see them over here for around that much for a 10-pack.
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Doesn't surprise me tbh... I use genuine tips
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8€ for a bit of silicon...
Don't know about Europe, but I see them over here for around that much for a 10-pack.
Hah, maybe it's really a 10-pack and sellers just don't tell in their descriptions :-DD
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8€ for a bit of silicon...
Don't know about Europe, but I see them over here for around that much for a 10-pack.
link?
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8€ for a bit of silicon...
Don't know about Europe, but I see them over here for around that much for a 10-pack.
link?
Just type "jbc ob2000" into google and you'll get a good number of results, e.g., https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/OB2000/Soldering-Accessories/ (https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/OB2000/Soldering-Accessories/).
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I solved the gasket problem by getting some high temp silicone rubber tubing (two sizes) 10mm OD and 6mm OD from McMaster and one fits inside the other which not only creates a nice seal so fumes don't get inside the handle, but it also lets me hold the iron closer to the tip for better control. The added bonus is i can change tips without turning it off, or cooling down. The silicone is rated to 450'f but it hasn't melted or done anything strange... yet. lol.
The 245 clone tips keep on failing after weeks of use on my T3A. Is it a firmware issue or something else?
Strange. I've been using the curved tip primarily since December and it's perfect.
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I solved the gasket problem by getting some high temp silicone rubber tubing (two sizes) 10mm OD and 6mm OD from McMaster and one fits inside the other which not only creates a nice seal...
hi, very interested in this. can you give a more complete specs including the inner diameter and / or mcmaster part numbers?
photo would also be a great help. many thans
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8€ for a bit of silicon...
Don't know about Europe, but I see them over here for around that much for a 10-pack.
Hah, maybe it's really a 10-pack and sellers just don't tell in their descriptions :-DD
I rechecked. Yes, it's indeed packs of 10
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Hi.
I just ordered mine T3A, and im wondering if anyone in uk or europe got spare silicone gasket for t245 handle (jbc ob2000) for sell, was trying to buy it but shipping costs from USA is almost 80$ and the other one i found was around 35$ from germany.
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Looks like they're restocking... https://www.weidinger.eu/de/p/wl48321 (https://www.weidinger.eu/de/p/wl48321)
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shipping to uk around 120$...
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Hello guys, I have a question. I've been using this station for like a month and it was fine, well it still is, but the sleep function sometimes stops working, it's kinda random and I'm looking for a way to fix it. I noticed there's a missing connection between the the tip and the metal ring on the handle and it's probably the cause of the problem. Sorry I haven't read the thread completely. Did you guys manage to fix the problem?
Sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker
The connection isn't really missing but it's not very solid. The outer connector of the tip only touches that metal ring. When one of both is corroded, the connection becoms unreliable. That probably is the reason, why JBC's original handles now have a silicon gasket [1].
The problem is possibly much simpler. If you are using the "upgraded" stand, then when you open it (2 screws under the front rubber feet), then you will discover that the connection to the handle holder is made only using a crimped eyelet that is threaded on the screw holding the metal piece where the handle rests. The problem is that eyelet is completely loose and does not make a good contact to the screw - and worse, they have put an insulating washer to stop the eyelet from moving around - except they have put it between the eyelet and the metal rest for the handle! :palm:
I have removed the insulating washer and put a normal washer in instead, that seems to have fixed the issue for the time being. But you may want to do a bit more robust fix to attach the wire directly to the metal handle holder instead.
Oh and the power rocker switch on the back of my T3A sometimes doesn't want to turn off - it just doesn't go "click", only flips back and forth. Yay for cheap products made out of cheap parts :(
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Hello guys, I have a question. I've been using this station for like a month and it was fine, well it still is, but the sleep function sometimes stops working, it's kinda random and I'm looking for a way to fix it. I noticed there's a missing connection between the the tip and the metal ring on the handle and it's probably the cause of the problem. Sorry I haven't read the thread completely. Did you guys manage to fix the problem?
Sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker
The connection isn't really missing but it's not very solid. The outer connector of the tip only touches that metal ring. When one of both is corroded, the connection becoms unreliable. That probably is the reason, why JBC's original handles now have a silicon gasket [1].
The problem is possibly much simpler. If you are using the "upgraded" stand, then when you open it (2 screws under the front rubber feet), then you will discover that the connection to the handle holder is made only using a crimped eyelet that is threaded on the screw holding the metal piece where the handle rests. The problem is that eyelet is completely loose and does not make a good contact to the screw - and worse, they have put an insulating washer to stop the eyelet from moving around - except they have put it between the eyelet and the metal rest for the handle! :palm:
I have removed the insulating washer and put a normal washer in instead, that seems to have fixed the issue for the time being. But you may want to do a bit more robust fix to attach the wire directly to the metal handle holder instead.
Oh and the power rocker switch on the back of my T3A sometimes doesn't want to turn off - it just doesn't go "click", only flips back and forth. Yay for cheap products made out of cheap parts :(
Wow... nice. I had opened the stand when adding my additional tip holder. I my case that connecting was rock solid. So, this might only apply to some people here
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Checked here mine is OK too... they made it good.
sleep function sometimes stops working, it's kinda random
Here see in this example photo... the black wire (comes from the black lead)... it is crimped AND soldered to the green wire (which then goes to the metal tip holder).
So check that connection is solid. And then also check the continuity between the green wire and the metal ring holder.
If it is not this issue... then otherwise it might be poor connection inside the handle. Between the outer ground (outer case). And the metal ring.
:-//
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Hi folks, just circling back to share the latest and I think, final update to my Aixun T3A unit. Just like before (p.22 of this thread) it's about ESD protection, except now it is for the front connector. While an option to open the unit's front panel and modify the MCU PCB was published already - I thought the less invasive idea may appeal to some. I've placed the protection circuit into a small aluminum enclosure, with a pigtail with GX12-5 on one end going to the T3A base station, and the opposite-gender GX12-5 is on the other end of the enclosure, where T245 handle connects. See the attached photo of the unit in use. I've included an LED and it became surprisingly useful addition - it reflects the PWM power delivery quite well, fading in/out when heater goes active/dormant. To me the unexpected usefulness came from the fact that I can see it in the corner of my eye and it gives a reassuring indication when the tip is really dumping heat into whatever I work on (vs. when you think the tip is touching the solder joint and you are wondering why solder doesn't melt :-) ). Unexpected, but fun :-). Anyhow, schematic is also attached and if you zoom in :-) - you can see which TVSs I chose for this setup, if the font is too small - it is Eaton Bussmann STS321033U202. Hope this helps someone. Have a great day!
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...adding inside view...
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Hi folks, just circling back to share the latest and I think, final update to my Aixun T3A unit. Just like before (p.22 of this thread) it's about ESD protection, except now it is for the front connector. While an option to open the unit's front panel and modify the MCU PCB was published already - I thought the less invasive idea may appeal to some. I've placed the protection circuit into a small aluminum enclosure, with a pigtail with GX12-5 on one end going to the T3A base station, and the opposite-gender GX12-5 is on the other end of the enclosure, where T245 handle connects. See the attached photo of the unit in use. I've included an LED and it became surprisingly useful addition - it reflects the PWM power delivery quite well, fading in/out when heater goes active/dormant. To me the unexpected usefulness came from the fact that I can see it in the corner of my eye and it gives a reassuring indication when the tip is really dumping heat into whatever I work on (vs. when you think the tip is touching the solder joint and you are wondering why solder doesn't melt :-) ). Unexpected, but fun :-). Anyhow, schematic is also attached and if you zoom in :-) - you can see which TVSs I chose for this setup, if the font is too small - it is Eaton Bussmann STS321033U202. Hope this helps someone. Have a great day!
those are some very helpful / useful mods. and well documented. thank you!!
and that tvs diode did not come up in my parts search for some reason. had instead found some other brands (but similar equivalent choice)... so will be adding this one to my shortlist of "the more desirable" tvs diodes to get. maybe will also compare them later on.
in terms of using your mods... i'm going to want to use them. however not 'as is' will need to adapt and change them somewhat. but not the essence of what they are. i.e. the actual function. although having said that i am actually ditching pins 1 and 3 completely for my own specific mods (which also makes certain things a lot simpler to deal with).
however one question i am left wondering is those 1uf caps what the purpose is for? also the d1 diode? why are those needed or desirable here?
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Capacitors are an additional layer of ESD protection, together with resistors they comprise a low-pass RC filter, further smooting the (remaining) ESD spike. TVSs are clamping down from very high ESD voltage to still high-ish voltage (for the logical level inputs), the RC filter is "outlaying" / spreading the energy over time, making it go from _|_ to _----_. In other words - a companion to TVS. Cannot do that for the thermocouple input as inline resistance may throw off the measurement, so there it's only a cap parallel to TVS, serving as a parallel shunt for ESD energy to flow through to the ground. In fact in some applications - ceramic capacitors are the only ESD protection used, I've seen it in automotive ECU designs. There are papers written on that topic (caps vs ESD, longevity of various dielectrics etc.). It's a legit way to treat ESD injection, obviously not as effective as fast acting TVSs.
The anti-parallel diode is to protect LED from the reverse voltage spikes which may be generated by somewhat inductive load (heaters may still have inside a thin nichrome or similar wire, wound in a pattern giving it tangible inductance). PWM is essentially fast-switching the load on and off, if that load is inductive - well, that's how ignition works in ICE engines :-).
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Checked here mine is OK too... they made it good.
sleep function sometimes stops working, it's kinda random
Here see in this example photo... the black wire (comes from the black lead)... it is crimped AND soldered to the green wire (which then goes to the metal tip holder).
So check that connection is solid. And then also check the continuity between the green wire and the metal ring holder.
If it is not this issue... then otherwise it might be poor connection inside the handle. Between the outer ground (outer case). And the metal ring.
:-//
That actually looks quite different than my stand - I don't have any connector there and there is only a single thin wire with a grommet coming out of the center of the back. That wire is terminated to the screw where the eyelet is in the photo and the green wire has another eyelet on the side, touching the metal holder for the soldering iron. That's where it went bad on mine.
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I don't have any connector there and there is only a single thin wire with a grommet coming out of the center of the back. That wire is terminated to the screw where the eyelet is in the photo and the green wire has another eyelet on the side, touching the metal holder for the soldering iron. That's where it went bad on mine.
Ah ok. Well yes that sounds like the same here. Simply was in the middle of doing some other custom mods on it. Which are not related to this matter. So when ignoring those:
Just focusing purely on the stand detect feature: the black wire is crimped directly into the green eyelet. So that was always good?
But you are saying you had a poor connection to the metal holder? So the side where the hinge is? It should be making a connection pressed against with the only 1 screw. (which is a 3.0mm hex security screw). So is that the part was discussed previously about the plastic washer? Hmm...
well I went to go back and check that too. However maybe it fell out and got lost on the floor when I was unscrewing it, not sure. However what was still in the hinge was... a dull grey washer. Very light and relatively thick so perhaps it is like some coated aluminum (dark grey like base unit is made from). I tested with DMM continuuity and it conducts. Also scratches like metal...
Sorry never took any photo of that hinge part, which is the other end of it.
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Just focusing purely on the stand detect feature: the black wire is crimped directly into the green eyelet. So that was always good?
Yes, that one is solid.
But you are saying you had a poor connection to the metal holder? So the side where the hinge is? It should be making a connection pressed against with the only 1 screw. (which is a 3.0mm hex security screw). So is that the part was discussed previously about the plastic washer? Hmm...
Yep, exactly that.
I guess there are multiple variants of these stands around - as with everything from Aliexpress ...
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Hi folks, just circling back to share the latest and I think, final update to my Aixun T3A unit...
Nice work! I bet it could be shoehorned into the good stand. There's not a lot of room inside, but the circuit doesn't look very large.
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Hi folks, just circling back to share the latest and I think, final update to my Aixun T3A unit...
Nice work! I bet it could be shoehorned into the good stand. There's not a lot of room inside, but the circuit doesn't look very large.
i am only putting the led activity light into my stand. then 1 tvs diode on the thermocouple input. and allo 1 tvs diode on the stand detect...
those mods are cut down / simplified version. my mods means t245 only. so no more shake or id wires (no t12 anymore). so it simplifies the wiring.
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Nice, the circuit is really only 2 components for ESD protection (for the 245 handle anyways). C3 (1uf) and D5 (TVS diode). You could just solder them together, then solder between pins 2 & 4 in the stand (be careful with the leads!). R1, D1, and D2 really aren't necessary. R1 just limits the brightness of the LED, and (as already stated) D1 is reverse voltage protection for the LED. Besides, you already have the bar graph on the device itself. People have the option though, build it however you want. Thanks again!
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Could anyone recomend a good shop with knockoffs tips ? trying to find something simmilar to c245-034
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Where to buy Aixun T3B in Europe? Is there a reasonable priced online reseller?
What is the customs proceure if I order from Aliexpress (to Luxembourg for instance)?
Thanks
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Where to buy Aixun T3B in Europe? Is there a reasonable priced online reseller?
What is the customs proceure if I order from Aliexpress (to Luxembourg for instance)?
Thanks
When you buy from Aliexpress in Europe as a private customer, VAT is included in the price, because they are registered in EU. Probably you don't have to pay import tax neither, at least I don't have. That's probably because they take care of the import to Europe. If I on the other hand buy similar stuff from Ebay (from a Chinese seller), I don't have to pay VAT, because they are also registered, but I might have to pay import taxes, because it isn't imported by the seller.
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Where to buy Aixun T3B in Europe? Is there a reasonable priced online reseller?
What is the customs proceure if I order from Aliexpress (to Luxembourg for instance)?
Thanks
When you buy from Aliexpress in Europe as a private customer, VAT is included in the price, because they are registered in EU. Probably you don't have to pay import tax neither, at least I don't have. That's probably because they take care of the import to Europe. If I on the other hand buy similar stuff from Ebay (from a Chinese seller), I don't have to pay VAT, because they are also registered, but I might have to pay import taxes, because it isn't imported by the seller.
That helps a lot, thank you. Is there a limitation in terms the total amount of the item for personally importing a product? I mean let's say if the value is larger than 10K Euro, can I still order it personally, pay taxes and receive it? In some countries I think there is a limit for personal international purchases, that's why I am asking..
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That helps a lot, thank you. Is there a limitation in terms the total amount of the item for personally importing a product? I mean let's say if the value is larger than 10K Euro, can I still order it personally, pay taxes and receive it? In some countries I think there is a limit for personal international purchases, that's why I am asking..
I don't think there is, but you should check customs information for the country in question. There might be different practices between EU countries. Also, I might have the information somewhat wrong about customs duty. I think it's up to the shipping company to notify you about it (at least this is what is said on the Finnish customs web page), and not the seller that handles it (some do, e.g. I don't have to pay customs duty when I buy from Mouser from the US, only VAT). But VAT is definitely paid at the moment you buy it, because Ali are VAT registered in EU. For a large shipment, you most likely will have to pay customs duty. But the shipping company should contact you.
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That helps a lot, thank you. Is there a limitation in terms the total amount of the item for personally importing a product? I mean let's say if the value is larger than 10K Euro, can I still order it personally, pay taxes and receive it? In some countries I think there is a limit for personal international purchases, that's why I am asking..
Limit not really but the prepaid VAT system using the IOSS (one stop system) is only applicable for orders < 150€ in value (don't quote me on that figure).
For everything more valuable you will need to go through the regular customs procedure - which may include a trip to the customs office, paying the VAT and any customs due before your package is released. That is regardless whether or not the seller is registered in the IOSS system (Aliexpress, Banggood and even eBay are).
So, in theory, I could order even a brand new Corvette directly from US - but the import paperwork and hassle could cost as much as half of the car ...
Now whether or not you get hassled with this depends a lot on the country, what are you ordering and how "lucky" you get with the customs officer. The enforcement of these rules can be quite haphazard and inconsistent because not 100% of all packages are checked (there are simply way too many of them). So usually only the bigger and/or more valuable things get the attention of the customs.
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hi, i'm jumping over from my own thread [https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-budget-soldering-station-recommendations-q4-2002/] to ask if AiXun T3A is a better value than the Weller WE1010NA and Hakko FX888D (currently it appears I can get the T12 version from ali for $95 USD, $90 and $110 for the Weller and Hakko respectively)? the AiXun appears more versatile, but I'm concerned about whether the build quality is reliable enough for many years of use, and as I don't have another iron, I can't modify the innards to make it safer (which seems to be what the KSGERs requires). appreciate any feedback!
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Well... If you're going to use T12 tips exclusively, then no. It isn't the better value. T12 tips (and the Weller WE1010NA) are limited to 70-ish watts. The real appeal of the T3A is to be able to use the JBC 245 tips at 180 watts, for less than JBC prices. JBC tips are more expensive than the knock off T12 tips (which don't last as long), and slightly more expensive than real Hakkos (while being able to deliver over twice the power). As for build quality, Aixun has definitely improved it, it was a little shaky at launch. Very few people have reported any serious issues after using it for a while, and I don't think anyone has reported any day 1 failures. That being said, there are some issues with the T3A straight out of the box- namely no ESD protection (which appears to have damaged some units according to the posts), and the filter caps in the power supply are cheap and should be replaced (which I haven't seen any posts of failures, and is about $6 in parts to address). Also, I'm not sure if Aixun added protection to the mosfet that drives the tip (if that fails, it will ruin the tip). Correct me if I'm wrong. ESD protection had been addressed with a mod a page back (literally none of these budget stations have any), and the filter caps aren't a HUGE issue, but for long term peace of mind, they should be changed. You just need to decide how much you want to spend, and where you see your soldering needs could be in the future. You could get the T3A now, use it with the T12 tips, then transition to the 245 system in the future. To be able to do that in one unit does have a lot of value.
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Can you just buy and connect a JBC brand T245 handle to the front of the Aixun T3A or do you have to only use the Aixun handle but then just swap the JBC tips in for the no brand ones?
is the connector in the front of the Aixun T3A compatible with JBC brand connector/cable.
thanks
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thank you for the useful info. unfortunately the aixun not being ready to go out of the box is a deal breaker for me. it's a shame that these low cost cartridge based stations have issues (grounding/ESD) that should've been addressed before even leaving the factory.
Well... If you're going to use T12 tips exclusively, then no. It isn't the better value. T12 tips (and the Weller WE1010NA) are limited to 70-ish watts. The real appeal of the T3A is to be able to use the JBC 245 tips at 180 watts, for less than JBC prices. JBC tips are more expensive than the knock off T12 tips (which don't last as long), and slightly more expensive than real Hakkos (while being able to deliver over twice the power). As for build quality, Aixun has definitely improved it, it was a little shaky at launch. Very few people have reported any serious issues after using it for a while, and I don't think anyone has reported any day 1 failures. That being said, there are some issues with the T3A straight out of the box- namely no ESD protection (which appears to have damaged some units according to the posts), and the filter caps in the power supply are cheap and should be replaced (which I haven't seen any posts of failures, and is about $6 in parts to address). Also, I'm not sure if Aixun added protection to the mosfet that drives the tip (if that fails, it will ruin the tip). Correct me if I'm wrong. ESD protection had been addressed with a mod a page back (literally none of these budget stations have any), and the filter caps aren't a HUGE issue, but for long term peace of mind, they should be changed. You just need to decide how much you want to spend, and where you see your soldering needs could be in the future. You could get the T3A now, use it with the T12 tips, then transition to the 245 system in the future. To be able to do that in one unit does have a lot of value.
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thank you for the useful info. unfortunately the aixun not being ready to go out of the box is a deal breaker for me. it's a shame that these low cost cartridge based stations have issues (grounding/ESD) that should've been addressed before even leaving the factory.
Based on that reasoning, literally everything in your price range is a deal breaker. There are people using the Aixun as is for production work with no reported issues. Second, it costs about $8 in parts to address these issues. About $6 for the filter caps for the power supply (which again, isn't an immediate issue), and another $2 for a TVS diode and a small cap. You aren't going to get those features out of the box from the factory for under $300, and even then, it would be Pace or something else that doesn't have the Aixun's power. For the price/performance ratio, the Aixun is impossible to beat, and the other issues are easily addressed.
Oh! And the ESD protection is for the iron itself, not to protect the components you are working on. The tip is grounded, and ESD safe for that.
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Can you just buy and connect a JBC brand T245 handle to the front of the Aixun T3A or do you have to only use the Aixun handle but then just swap the JBC tips in for the no brand ones?
is the connector in the front of the Aixun T3A compatible with JBC brand connector/cable.
thanks
You need the change the wiring in the handle or the connector, then it will work. Instructions for that are further back in this thread.
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Based on that reasoning, literally everything in your price range is a deal breaker. There are people using the Aixun as is for production work with no reported issues. Second, it costs about $8 in parts to address these issues. About $6 for the filter caps for the power supply (which again, isn't an immediate issue), and another $2 for a TVS diode and a small cap. You aren't going to get those features out of the box from the factory for under $300, and even then, it would be Pace or something else that doesn't have the Aixun's power. For the price/performance ratio, the Aixun is impossible to beat, and the other issues are easily addressed.
Oh! And the ESD protection is for the iron itself, not to protect the components you are working on. The tip is grounded, and ESD safe for that.
ok, you're saying everything included in the Aixun box (handle, case, power supply) should be properly grounded and ESD safe straight from the factory without additional modification, unlike the KSGERs? or will additional soldering of the internals be necessary for it to be safely used? the other internal improvements that could be done should probably wait until my skills improve. as for the C245 tips, oof i didn't realize the genuine ones were so expensive (~$30 each). is the value of a genuine C245 tip much greater than a T12? perhaps it is most economical to start off by taking the plunge now on a genuine general purpose C245 tip and expand as needed? thanks for your help!
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ok, you're saying everything included in the Aixun box (handle, case, power supply) should be properly grounded and ESD safe straight from the factory without additional modification
yes
will additional soldering of the internals be necessary for it to be safely used?
no
the other internal improvements that could be done should probably wait until my skills improve.
i think in fairness anybody could pretty easily do the necessary set of mods (at least the simpler set that i myself recommend). The only thing you really need is a cheap modern 2nd soldering iron, for example a Pinecil should be good enough. And they are reasonably affordable compared to the price of the aixun t3a. Also: once you did the mods on the aixun you could probably just sell the pinecil on ebay. Or keep it as an emergency backup iron and/or portable iron. Or give it to a family member as a gift. Well whatever...
didn't realize the genuine ones were so expensive (~$30 each). is the value of a genuine C245 tip much greater than a T12? perhaps it is most economical to start off by taking the plunge now on a genuine general purpose C245 tip and expand as needed? thanks for your help!
I didn't understand the wording there. But yes the tips cost a fair bit of money. But yes they are also worth paying the money. So you are correct that is the right approach to slowly building up a collection over a longer time.
To think of it another way, don't waste money on buying anything T12 tips, you can then afford more quickly to build up money towards the better C245 cartridges.
There is no silver arrow for the tips, nothing else on the market as an equal alternative. Other than trying to find some used metcal station... but that is a different type of device. It works differently and has it's own pros and cons. Most people are not going to get a Metcal (and nor are they necessarily meaningfully better, depending on your preferences for how you are soldering etc.). So to leave metcal out of the discussion here (for this thread). You can research it off your own back elsewhere. The Aixun is the best all round soldering station as things currently stand in 2022. When used in combination with the genunine JBC tips.
I would also recommend just get the T245 handle from the beginning. And not bother with the T12 compatibility thing. It makes mods easier, and you need all your money to save for those official JBC C245 cartridges anyhow.
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There is no silver arrow for the tips, nothing else on the market as an equal alternative
Sorry I forgot to talk about those cheaper chinese Aixun branded clone C245 tips. Like the 3 you get with the station (and can order more from aliexpress)...
Originally I was under the impression that you could just use those aixun tips for smaller thermal mass finer point sizes. I.e. for micro soldering. Since their lower performance should not matter as much when the tip is smaller, it already limits the amount of thermal transfer possible.
So that then becomes a way to cut corners on some of the tips (but not others). So for medium and large tip sizes you would still need to buy genuine JBC ones. Since those require a higher performance. Which the genuine JBC delivers.
However when talking about this matter with others, somebody has noticed a difference in the finishing quality on the tips, such that the part of the end of the tip that wicks solder upwards (and away from your work area, the business end where the contact actually occurs)...
well this is in fact different between the aixun tips and the genuine jbc ones. So that then makes the genuine JBC tips have a better usability, and easier wicking / easier control of applying fresh load of solder onto the tip. That it does not loose itself by creeking up the side of the iron. Which can be pretty annoying when micro soldering TBH.
So even then for small tips, the genuine JBC seems better. Sorry to make things less clear. But hopefully that helps to clarify some of the reason(s) for spending more on the genuine JBC tips. Vs the chinese clone tips.
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@eevnoob: I'd echo dreamcat4 - go for AiXun T3A in T245 version, AND get the genuine JBC tips - they do make a lot of difference, heat transfer is **much** higher, anyone can see it on the base station screen (the left side power delivery bar) when touching high thermal mass joint or wet cleaning sponge. I also see it via LED behaviour on the mod I've done (posted on p.25) - both the on-screen bar and the LED show the same - much more power is delivered to the heater more continuously when the tip is genuine.
The cheap AliExpress-sourced C245 tips do work, but they kind off negate the benefit of the whole T245 system - even if the tip is in a good contact with a high thermal mass joint - power is delivered in much shorter and further apart bursts, indicating that there is a higher thermal resistance between the heater and the actual tip. Most likely (if you would do an X-ray - you'd likely see it) - there is an air gap between the heater coil and the outer shell of the tip. So, going for genuine tips is a very valid suggestion.
As for ESD mods - I want to keep T3A for long time, hence I went all the way, protecting the back "idle" connector (see p.22) and the front connector (p.25), both are NOT necessary to just use T3A. But they do give me peace of mind, together with re-capping of the base PSU (also p.22). These ESD mods are not required to protect **what** you are soldering. Only to protect (long-term) the station itself.
And I'd also recommend to get a second iron - nothing ruins your day devoted to a project like your only iron failing! :-) . It could be either something like Pinecil (I don't have it - cannot comment on how good it is) or you could look for something like "CXG" branded "station in a handle" irons, basically an AC-powered, much older style (Hakko's 900M-style tips), but it's a full solution which is very portable - just the iron itself with an AC cord attached, thermo stabilized, with a little LCD or LED display and a few buttons to control it. And 900M tips are dirt cheap, and can be had in pure unplated copper if that's your thing (good heat transfer, but they are expendables) . Or similar design "WiT" irons. I have several of these and still use them quite a lot when I need to solder something off my bench. Be aware - you need 120VAC version for use in US/Canada/other 120VAC countries, by default those "station in a handle" irons are made for Chinese market, 220VAC only - get the vendor to confirm which version they are selling.
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not sure if posted yet but there is newer firmware for the t3a t3b and t420d
AIXUN T3A
1.27 (2022-10-24)
Fix usb driver compatibility issues;
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i just came across these soldering stations from Aifen that support T210/T245/T115 handles: the A2 and A3. the cost is in the $85 range, which appears to be an excellent value. this range of handles seems perfect for someone who wants to be able to do both macro and micro soldering in one station. could i have your feedback on them: do they appear to be a good alternative to the T3A/T3B for those on a smaller budget?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804332568077.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804332568077.html)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804050181951.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804050181951.html)
there's also this Yahua 982 station that supports T210 and T245 for under $80.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804662520342.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804662520342.html)
https://www.yihuatools.com/Product/yihua3_100000470585933.html (https://www.yihuatools.com/Product/yihua3_100000470585933.html)
one final question: to the many in this thread that have used both Hakko T12 and JBC T210/T245/T115 tips, is the 3x+ greater cost justified in terms of soldering performance and tip longevity? i understand that professionals are usually willing to pay a premium to save time, but would the same cost/value ratio exist to someone who is still inexperienced (if they're unlikely to "appreciate" it)? i can only afford one, maybe two genuine JBC tips when combined with one of these lower cost stations. if 90% of macro size jobs can be accomplished using one/two general-purpose tips, i can hold out for the quality and availability of JBC clone tips to improve. hopefully as the future cost of JBC clones decreases, competition among clone tip manufacturers will increase, with a corresponding increase in quality and availability. but that isn't guaranteed, and at this moment there are many affordable T12 clone tips in the market, so if the majority of my soldering work is in the lower power domain (below 70W), the T12 should still produce good results? appreciate your insights!
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one final question: to the many in this thread that have used both Hakko T12 and JBC T210/T245/T115 tips, is the 3x+ greater cost justified in terms of soldering performance and tip longevity?
Yes. Nothing beats the JBC system (except maybe Metcal, but we aren't talking about that here). You will get very few arguments. Those other stations MAY be ok, but they don't have the raw power of the Aixun. They could also struggle from firmware issues (the #1 killer of potentially good chinese stations). The Aixun, on the other hand, has phenominal firmware support. A real rarity among Chinesium soldering stations. Again, the T3A is one of the top 3 soldering stations in ANY price range. You're eventually going to get to this point anyways, just do yourself a favor, cut to the chase, and just get the T3A. Stuff is getting more expensive too... You could get away with 2 tips- C245-158E/159E (both are fine for general use, depends on how small you want to work with), and a general D24 or C2 type like the C245-155E/C245-774/C245-945 (for medium tasks like tinning heavier gauge wires, jack/pot lugs). I'd go C245-159E and C2 (the C245-945). Small enough for some SMD work, general small to medium PCB work, enough power to solder medium sized wires, pots, jacks, and you can also drag solder with the C2. The Aixun + maybe another $80 gets you everything you'd need to do about 95% of small to medium jobs. Some smaller SMD stuff could be a problem, as well as larger power mosfets and ground planes. But it will probably be a while before you're able to do that stuff anyways. So save up.
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I'm checking on the jbc website and there are so many different soldering station...
What jbc model would you compare the T3A to in terms of performance?
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Probably the CD-1BQF (for US) or CD-2BQF (for 230V land), https://www.jbctools.com/cdb-soldering-product-1605.html (https://www.jbctools.com/cdb-soldering-product-1605.html)
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Probably the CD-1BQF (for US) or CD-2BQF (for 230V land), https://www.jbctools.com/cdb-soldering-product-1605.html (https://www.jbctools.com/cdb-soldering-product-1605.html)
Thank you.
So, cost aside, do you think it would be a better idea to go for the JBC one or the T3A is still a better option? The JBC seems to be around 300euro (exc. VAT) which is not too bad, if it's worth it of course comparing to the AiXun :)
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Wrong thread to give advise to purchase a real JBC station over T3A :-) - but yeah, if you can afford genuine product - support the inventor of the system, not (as good as it is) a follower. Now, there are benefits of T3A aside from the cost, one is how compact it is - the real JBC station would take more of the precious space on my bench.
Besides, cost is still a valid question to ask & answer - I got T3A for just under $150 USD all-in, shipped to my door. If the genuine JBC would be around $300 USD - I'd consider it, but the link I gave above shows MSRP of $545 USD (plus $$ for original tips/cartridges - same as with T3A, plus shipping unless it's free - likely in US only). More like $700+ CAD shipped, vs. under $200CAD for T3A, so 3.5x more for the JBC...
If there are deals out there to get it for ~$300 USD/Euro shipped - then I'd say go for it. But there will be no fun making it better. Pure consumerism :popcorn:.
Jokes aside - if I'd be doing with it any product I'd be selling in any tangible quantities/with tangible liabilities - I'd go for the actual JBC. But electronics is mostly my hobby of 35+ years (aside from formal engineering education) - so I'm ok with T3A and I'm having fun making it better :-). Choices, choices... :-).
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The JBC CD-2BQF is available in Belgium and the Netherlands from € 375 to € 450 with taxes. But the T3A is in terms of price/quality a good choice.
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is the a way to manually force dormancy mode in the controls? or does it only work by grounding the special black wire going to the stand?
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is the a way to manually force dormancy mode in the controls? or does it only work by grounding the special black wire going to the stand?
AFAIK you can't, it goes to sleep the moment you put the handle in the stand. I am not sure why would you want it to go to sleep without the handle in the stand?
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go to sleep without the handle in the stand?
if ever loose the stand. or want to take it somewhere (using it portable without the stand). is ok just wanted to know. but i know what to do about that now so is fine.
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go to sleep without the handle in the stand?
if ever loose the stand. or want to take it somewhere (using it portable without the stand). is ok just wanted to know. but i know what to do about that now so is fine.
If that bothers you, just make a short wire that you stick to the rear connector to ground it to simulate the handle being in the stand.
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yes, have now today rewired added back the original stand idle 4mm banana plug on the rear of my unit. In case should ever need that in future, for other scenarios when not using the 'decent' desktop stand. which is now handled by new mod: the extension cable (1st seen by mario). is OK
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Have you seen a way to rewire JBC handles to work with the Aixun T3A/T3B? I would like to grab c245, 210 and 115 handles and rewire them to work with my stations. Maybe find a way to rewire the nano tweezers, though I am not holding onto hope for that one.
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Have you seen a way to rewire JBC handles to work with the Aixun T3A/T3B? I would like to grab c245, 210 and 115 handles and rewire them to work with my stations. Maybe find a way to rewire the nano tweezers, though I am not holding onto hope for that one.
I am not sure the wiring for genuine JBC T245. However what I can say is that the aixun T3A handle only has 3 wires inside of it, and those 3 wires corresponds directly to the 3 terminals of a C245 cartridge.
There is also a white wire being bridged from another pin to GND (negative wire). However that is only being used on the Aixun T3A station for 'ID' which is handle identity to know which handle is currently been plugged.
The other thing to realize is that you have to chop off the original 6-pin HiRose plastic plug. To then replace it with the metal 5-pin GX12-5 aviation connector. For the T3A
The wiring for c210 / T3B and tweezers will be further different. Don't have those others but i know the C210 has different cartridge Thermocouple pinout. Not the same. The thermocouple in C210 also has a different slope coeffecient too. So it's (generally speaking) not worth to make cross compatible with the T3a base unit. Somebody did that once with an H bridge but significantly too much more of a pain to deal with.
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quick question:
can we re-purpose the 24v dc output jack on the back as a 24v dc input? perhaps with some extra couple of components
seems like this could be of value for portable use. connecting to a battery pack etc.
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quick question:
can we re-purpose the 24v dc output jack on the back as a 24v dc input? perhaps with some extra couple of components
seems like this could be of value for portable use. connecting to a battery pack etc.
well i looked into this matter this morning and... there are solutions out there with mosfet and 'ideal diode' or pmic chip etc. However the simplest form of that with just a p-channel mosfet, i was just not clear on. And anyhow there really is not much room inside the chassis anymore for such extra circuitry. To do intelligent switching i think is also overkill, because the user knows at any time they are mobile or plugged into mains supply. It's never needing to auto switch between both.
My conclusion was we can avoid unnecessary complexity with a simple toggle switch,
like the set 1 here: (Color: 3Pin Black Black, on-on)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001165908155.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001165908155.html)
correction like the set 1 here: (Color: Black, Size: 3 pin on-off)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001187370402.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001187370402.html)
Mounted on the fan grille area. And next to that a DC power connector (either barrel jack or XT60, or whatever you prefer to use). Again in the same fan grille area.
Then route the DC power with some new cabling, need an extra 2-pin VH connector for that (but might as well buy a full kit, for general purpose use)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32815738433.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32815738433.html)
The only thing left still missing are some small metal guard rails to recess this 2nd new toggle switch. So that it cannot be accidentally get knock on/off without realizing. For example by other things on the desk etc. Or in mobile use scenario.
They're just a U shaped piece of metal. One to be added on either side of the switch. I know we can get them for hifi amplifiers etc. Just anything really to make the switch protected and recessed. It does not have to be so particular.
The other major point of interest here (for mobile use). Is to see what the widest good and safe operating voltage is for the front board. If could be anything less than the nominal +24v DC. For example as low as 20v could potentially make possible a USB-c power bank. Which would be pretty handy.
However also power tool batteries. Which can vary anywhere between 16v and 22v. That is another common one.
And 2x lead acid batteries (in series) could be anywhere up to 27v when fully charged.
So there is a lot of potential voltage ranges there for powering in mobile situation. And that perhaps may also influence somewhat the decision for the DC connector plug. Really not sure about that side of things yet.
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a lot of potential voltage ranges there for powering in mobile situation ...not sure about that side of things yet.
edit: *btw my unit is running the v1.26 firmware, (for other firmware versions i would not be certain to know if its same behaviour).
OK so when the DC supply voltage is less than 15.25v...
Then the front home screen on these Aixun will show a text indicator text saying "low voltage". And it will refuse to turn on the heater mosfet anymore.
* However the unit remains powered up and alive. This is fantastic.
* If the voltage increases and stays above 15.25v then it will work the heater.
* If the voltage dips at any time during heating below that 15.25v threshold. Then it will temporarily disable the heater (while heating). Until the DC supply voltage recovers. And then continue from when it left off.
So while heating this is observed as a sort of a 'stall condition'. At its ramping up, it will pause to gather itself. Then continue for another burst, until the voltage sags again. etc.
So great... this might OK to drive from a +20v usb-c power bank. With one of those little DC power chips to give the fixed voltage from. However this is assuming that when it tries to draw too much current, the usb-c power bank doesn't cut off the power. But instead it will need to limit the current draw somehow. To some maximum value that the usb-c power source is capped at. IDK how that is handled in such power sources. Or for high current usb-c chargers. But it would be nice to know before proceeding further.
Alternatively it should be OK to drive from +18v power tool batteries too. Those can droop down to 16v (or even as low as 12v when nearly flat). But that should be ok it would seem.
As for maximum voltage I am not sure yet. It would first be better to analyze the circuit (for example with the schematic generously given earlier). To see what the maximum safe input voltage should be considered.
For now I think I just want to look into the high current (20v) usb-c power delivery a bit more. And maybe find something worth purchasing. As I have no usb-c power bank nor usb-c high current charger yet. And would like to get one to play around with.
edit 2: found that the usb-pd spec requires OCP and it's max 5a current on the usb-c. for 100w. So maybe an extra circuit to limit the current manually to 5a is required here? i.e. in order to stop triggering OCP on the usb power bank source? Maybe something a bit like this could work?
https://320volt.com/en/irf4905-ile-5-amper-akim-regulatoru/
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Have you seen a way to rewire JBC handles to work with the Aixun T3A/T3B? I would like to grab c245, 210 and 115 handles and rewire them to work with my stations. Maybe find a way to rewire the nano tweezers, though I am not holding onto hope for that one.
I am not sure the wiring for genuine JBC T245. However what I can say is that the aixun T3A handle only has 3 wires inside of it, and those 3 wires corresponds directly to the 3 terminals of a C245 cartridge.
There is also a white wire being bridged from another pin to GND (negative wire). However that is only being used on the Aixun T3A station for 'ID' which is handle identity to know which handle is currently been plugged.
The other thing to realize is that you have to chop off the original 6-pin HiRose plastic plug. To then replace it with the metal 5-pin GX12-5 aviation connector. For the T3A
The wiring for c210 / T3B and tweezers will be further different. Don't have those others but i know the C210 has different cartridge Thermocouple pinout. Not the same. The thermocouple in C210 also has a different slope coeffecient too. So it's (generally speaking) not worth to make cross compatible with the T3a base unit. Somebody did that once with an H bridge but significantly too much more of a pain to deal with.
Thank you very much for such a detailed response. I'm not fully discouraged as of yet. I owe you a second thanks as well because I came back here to ask what size aviator plug I need to create a sort of selector box to keep both the t12 and t245 handles plugged in without having to switch and put additional strain on the plugs and station and your answered it for me, so thank you once again!
I was also wanting to create a selector box for the T3B to be able to switch between the t115 and t210 handles, would you happen to know the correct plug I need to grab to accomplish this? Thanks again and thanks in advance. You're awesome!
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I was also wanting to create a selector box for the T3B to be able to switch between the t115 and t210 handles, would you happen to know the correct plug I need
it looks just like the original jbc one, which is this one
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003508680416.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003508680416.html)
i have heard it referred to as a hi-rose 6-pin and otter iron pro should have the bom part number over on its github repo
https://github.com/jeanthom/Otter-Iron-PRO-BOM (https://github.com/jeanthom/Otter-Iron-PRO-BOM)
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Thank you once again! I have one more question, do you have a link to the pinout for both the T3A and T3B stations? Thank you once again for being so informative and friendly!
Edit: since Aixun is using JBC's plug, do you think this will work with my T3B? https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM3P7vw
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Thank you once again! I have one more question, do you have a link to the pinout for both the T3A and T3B stations? Thank you once again for being so informative and friendly!
Edit: since Aixun is using JBC's plug, do you think this will work with my T3B? https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM3P7vw
for the t3b i do not have a pinout. however i am with steve in saying that imho the most ideal combination of irons is to skip the t210 entirely. and just have the t3b for the nano t115 top only. then you will not need to bother with any of that.
the reason is because there is a lot of overlap in the cartridge sizes for micro soldering.
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I started my journey into the world of better soldering stations by getting the t210 have with the T3B thinking the t115 would be a bit too small for my needs and decided last week to get the t3a with the t245 handle and ordered the t12 the larger jobs. So I'm kinda stuck with the 210, I'm still going to order the 115 after Xmas though. Since I'm going to have both handles, I may as well come up with a way of switching between the 2. Do you think that Kaisi selector box would work since they use the JBC connectors? Also, I'm still trying to figure out the safest and smartest way of building this selector box for my t3a, I haven't made any final choices besides the enclosure I'm using. I will be posting to the beginners forum asking for a bit of guidance on the best route to take as I'm no electronics genius by any means, I just feel building this box would be great experience and extremely self gratifying upon finish.
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not my area of expertise sorry
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Honestly, the Kaisi is kind of overkill and unnecessary. The connectors are on the front, and only takes a second to swap. Really, you have a good set up. Both Aixuns have really good hibernate functions, and if you're limited on bench space, they'll stack on top of each other. The T3A and T3B together are cheaper than the 420D (and again, takes up less space), plus I'm a little hesitant about the 420D in that both irons share one screen and PSU. If something goes wrong, you lose both sides. I think the only thing you MAYBE lost out on cost would be the t210 handle for the t115, and even then, there are times when I could see you using t245 and t210 at the same time to remove IC's, multi pin connectors, etc. It's a good thing to have 2 soldering irons, and the t115 just doesn't have the "oomph". Instead of getting the Kaisi, I'd look more into a preheater solution, and probably a hot air station. Then there's literally nothing you couldn't do soldering-wise.
For hot air, the Quick line off of Aliexpress is the most budget-friendly. But reliability can be an issue. Screens burning out seems to be the most common. The Quick 861dw performs really well, and is probably their best unit. Maybe a bit expensive though, so if something goes wrong... Just don't get a station that is basically a hair dryer connected by a power cable to the base unit. You want the hot air coming out of the base itself.
For preheaters, the Sainsmart/Miniware MHP30 is a functional (if not powerful) little device. Reasonable priced if you get them off of Aliexpress. But they can have issues too. Seems like the heating diodes can burn out (and I didn't see any way to replace them), and the temperature is somewhat off. It's not for heavy jobs, just spot heating. A full sized hot plate or air heater is large, and depending on what you want to do, is just entirely too much. Not to mention an air heater is just uncomfortable to be around. You get preheated too. If you really want to build something, there's a good youtube vid on a DIY preheater that looks really cool. I haven't made one yet, but it's on my list. He makes mention of separating the unit into 2 parts- the control unit, and the heating plate, so the heater is disposable. Which is totally do-able. Good luck!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk)
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I seem to have a similar problem with T3A. I put the aixun arrowheads in just for a moment to check if they work. I ordered original JBC tips from TME and I also heard buzzing when using JBC tips, I don't remember if the buzzing occurred with aixun tips because
I didn't use them. The station operated less than two weeks and is now dead. I'm thinking about returning it, because if there are problems with the original JBC tips, then the station is useless to me. It seems to me that most T3A customers assumed correct operation with T3A tips.
The Chinese seller offered to send me a new station, but if there is the same problem, I'd rather they give me my money back. I do not know if the problem is with a poor contact in the aixun handle or in the station itself.
Below is a link to a video I recorded before the station died. :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL4-pFmsd8w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL4-pFmsd8w)
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Bought AiXun T3A 3 months ago as home/DIY soldering station. Find it as best non-big brand soldering station I had and used so far. Power output is good so tips warm up to desired temperature very fast. Tips are grounded. Both original and clone C245 tips work. Find out that it is posible to use T12 handle with it thus making possible to use some funny wide T12 chip and flat cable desoldering tips. Form-factor allow me to put station body in very narrow place at corner of my table. Would like to have separate calibration profiles for some tips. And SMD soldering tweezers for it. But in general I'm very happy with this station.
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I seem to have a similar problem with T3A. I put the aixun arrowheads in just for a moment to check if they work. I ordered original JBC tips from TME and I also heard buzzing when using JBC tips, I don't remember if the buzzing occurred with aixun tips because
I didn't use them. The station operated less than two weeks and is now dead. I'm thinking about returning it, because if there are problems with the original JBC tips, then the station is useless to me. It seems to me that most T3A customers assumed correct operation with T3A tips.
That is most likely unrelated to the tips. I am using both the cheap Aixun supplied tips and original JBC ones (also from TME) and no issues whatsoever, no buzzing.
That looks like a defective unit, the controller is obviously restarting for some reason. It also doesn't seem to heat the tip, so my guess would be something in the power supply for the iron has died and now the controller is resetting.
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Honestly, the Kaisi is kind of overkill and unnecessary. The connectors are on the front, and only takes a second to swap. Really, you have a good set up. Both Aixuns have really good hibernate functions, and if you're limited on bench space, they'll stack on top of each other. The T3A and T3B together are cheaper than the 420D (and again, takes up less space), plus I'm a little hesitant about the 420D in that both irons share one screen and PSU. If something goes wrong, you lose both sides. I think the only thing you MAYBE lost out on cost would be the t210 handle for the t115, and even then, there are times when I could see you using t245 and t210 at the same time to remove IC's, multi pin connectors, etc. It's a good thing to have 2 soldering irons, and the t115 just doesn't have the "oomph". Instead of getting the Kaisi, I'd look more into a preheater solution, and probably a hot air station. Then there's literally nothing you couldn't do soldering-wise.
For hot air, the Quick line off of Aliexpress is the most budget-friendly. But reliability can be an issue. Screens burning out seems to be the most common. The Quick 861dw performs really well, and is probably their best unit. Maybe a bit expensive though, so if something goes wrong... Just don't get a station that is basically a hair dryer connected by a power cable to the base unit. You want the hot air coming out of the base itself.
For preheaters, the Sainsmart/Miniware MHP30 is a functional (if not powerful) little device. Reasonable priced if you get them off of Aliexpress. But they can have issues too. Seems like the heating diodes can burn out (and I didn't see any way to replace them), and the temperature is somewhat off. It's not for heavy jobs, just spot heating. A full sized hot plate or air heater is large, and depending on what you want to do, is just entirely too much. Not to mention an air heater is just uncomfortable to be around. You get preheated too. If you really want to build something, there's a good youtube vid on a DIY preheater that looks really cool. I haven't made one yet, but it's on my list. He makes mention of separating the unit into 2 parts- the control unit, and the heating plate, so the heater is disposable. Which is totally do-able. Good luck!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk)
I apologize for the delayed response been on holiday. So I have my stations stacked on top of one another, they look great together. I love how well these stations work. I love the amount of different handles that are available. I know it seems like overkill to use that Kaisi box but it is what I want to have as an option. If I am understanding correctly, are you saying it will work with the T3B? It uses the same plug but am uncertain if there is special circuitry inside the box. I was considering the d420 but ultimately decided to buy the stations separately for the same reasons you mentioned. Alsop, I have been considering to buy myself a preheat plate, I do like the Great Scott! video you shared, I honestly watch his videos all the time. I just think I want an actually plate that is much larger than the little MiniWare one, I love the way it looks and am honestly very partial to MiniWare products but it just doesn't have enout surface area for me, so I will be looking at potentially one of the Mechanic branded ones. As for hot air rework stations, I have one but it isnt very good and I have been eyeing one of the Mechanic stations. The hardest decision for me is a desoldering station. I have been looking at the Pro's Kit stations but they are an eyesore, imho. I know it is a strange reson to make a decision on equipment but I want an attractivbe station as well as functional and as a result, I am most likely going to get the Hakko FR-301-3/P, it will match the Mechanic rework station and preheat plate.
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With this small heatplate from miniware I'm concerned about warping when heating large boards. Many youtube reviewers say it's cool to heat up a small region of interest to rework, but I'm not sure. If possible, I prefer to use bottom heater, and then finish work with hotair.
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With this small heatplate from miniware I'm concerned about warping when heating large boards. Many youtube reviewers say it's cool to heat up a small region of interest to rework, but I'm not sure. If possible, I prefer to use bottom heater, and then finish work with hotair.
I have the Miniware hotplate and that is really not a concern. I have tried to (de)solder stuff from various scrap boards with it and no warping at all. Hot air will usually do a lot more damage than this. The biggest issue is that if you are repairing something, it can be difficult to find a spot where to position the hotplate because many boards have double sided load. Also large boards absolutely need some holders/support while heating them balanced on the tiny hotplate, so it can be a bit messy.
It is certainly not a production device, more a point repair or soldering one odd connector here and there.
If possible, I prefer to use bottom heater, and then finish work with hotair.
That's how you are supposed to use the mini hotplate too - preheat the board from the bottom and then hit the part with hot air. If you don't do that, it could easily scorch the board.
But it can be used alone as a classic hotplate for reflow as well.
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I seem to have a similar problem with T3A. I put the aixun arrowheads in just for a moment to check if they work. I ordered original JBC tips from TME and I also heard buzzing when using JBC tips, I don't remember if the buzzing occurred with aixun tips because
I didn't use them. The station operated less than two weeks and is now dead. I'm thinking about returning it, because if there are problems with the original JBC tips, then the station is useless to me. It seems to me that most T3A customers assumed correct operation with T3A tips.
That is most likely unrelated to the tips. I am using both the cheap Aixun supplied tips and original JBC ones (also from TME) and no issues whatsoever, no buzzing.
That looks like a defective unit, the controller is obviously restarting for some reason. It also doesn't seem to heat the tip, so my guess would be something in the power supply for the iron has died and now the controller is resetting.
Thanks for the info.
I have asked the same question in several places and all the answers are similar to yours.
The Chinese seller offered me a refund or shipping a new station. I chose the second option and I hope I will not regret this decision, in my free time, I'll try to resurrect a dead T3A.
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we have more then a dozen in use in a shop / repair business and they have been there for many months and out of over 20 units we have had we had only one with an issue and it was with the display. otherwise these have been perfect with zero issues. i did go ahead and order in better caps for the psu this way i have them on hand and if they go i have replacements ready to install. otherwise we will use them they way they are until we have an issue.
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My dad has been using T3A with T245 handle and three supplied tips for several months and he's pleased with it. But i wanted to buy him some new/additional tips. From what i see Aixun only produces 3 types of tips for T245 handle (knife/s-tip/i sharp tip). Can i buy for example TS2245-939 tip (wide blade) (manufactured by I2C) from this link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004614035930.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004614035930.html) and it will work?
Sorry for maybe basic question, i don't know much about soldering but i know my dad wanted some other tips for his T3A and i wanted to avoid buying wrong product.
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yes it should work fine
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new aixun program available. this version lets you select if it should auto update or not. along with some other new options. version 1.16.1
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Hi folks!
Can you please suggest the proven reliable source of T3A from Aliexpress? Wanna buy a whole set including 3 245 tips and upgraded stand.
TIA!
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Hi folks!
Can you please suggest the proven reliable source of T3A from Aliexpress? Wanna buy a whole set including 3 245 tips and upgraded stand.
TIA!
ive ordered from a number of them and most are fine. ZhenShang Tools Store, Bresun, HAOYIXIOU Store, diyphone, etc (others as well) all of those have been perfect. and iver had the fastest shipping from the first three out of all of them. sometimes you can find the set with the old stand for under 100$ and then order just the new stand by itself and end up cheaper then buying the "new" set ive done that a few times now.
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Is there any particular reason you'd want to use the T115 handle and tips over the T245? Literally everything I do is still through-hole, but I've learned to do SMT over the past couple of years. Since I've gotten the T3A, it doesn't seem like there's anything the 245 tips can't do. On paper. The wide array of tips would give you the impression that you can do the very small, as well as large. On more demanding jobs, regardless of the iron's power, you still need a pre-heater to load the board (especially the ground plane), but what's the advantage of one over the other? Working space? Maneuverability? Thermal shock? Performance?
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Is there any particular reason you'd want to use the T115 handle and tips over the T245?
because when you activate you hands the signal to the muscles in the forearm is pulsed. kindda like pwm. so the amount of control you have or effective resolution is somewhat limited by your ability to control or change the rate or flow of those pulses
the t115 handle lets you hold your fingers closer to the end of the tip. so it should be able to give a finer control of the movement on smallest sized smd parts
a good test for this would be iphone pcb. or other modern smartphone pcb. where the components are so tightly packed together next to each other. that you dont want an accident and touch the next row of solder joints by mistake.
another good test on thee iphone mainboards is the vertical. when the components next door are so much taller. that then you have to orient the tip much more vertically. and this then becomes much more challenging for finer control.
i am not saying you cannot do these works also with t245 handle. just maybe that they are good test situation to try and see if there is enough difference to matter, to be a reason for why the t115.
because on other larger smd layouts. and more open space. then you can use a larger handle ok. without it being so difficult
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Any recommended cartridges from aliexpress? Or general consensus that only genuine ones are good?
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Is there any particular reason you'd want to use the T115 handle and tips over the T245?
because when you activate you hands the signal to the muscles in the forearm is pulsed. kindda like pwm. so the amount of control you have or effective resolution is somewhat limited by your ability to control or change the rate or flow of those pulses
the t115 handle lets you hold your fingers closer to the end of the tip. so it should be able to give a finer control of the movement on smallest sized smd parts
a good test for this would be iphone pcb. or other modern smartphone pcb. where the components are so tightly packed together next to each other. that you dont want an accident and touch the next row of solder joints by mistake.
another good test on thee iphone mainboards is the vertical. when the components next door are so much taller. that then you have to orient the tip much more vertically. and this then becomes much more challenging for finer control.
i am not saying you cannot do these works also with t245 handle. just maybe that they are good test situation to try and see if there is enough difference to matter, to be a reason for why the t115.
because on other larger smd layouts. and more open space. then you can use a larger handle ok. without it being so difficult
I have been in this situation before - and specifically decided to not go for the smaller handle. The tip to grip distance difference isn't that large and I am not working on really tiny stuff like smartphones where the small handle could give any sort of advantage. And even there with the right tip choice you can do the work with a 245 handpiece without any issues, despite it being larger.
However, what sucks for the smaller handle is the poor choice of tips. The larger T245 one has completely ridiculous selection of shapes and sizes for anything imaginable. The smaller handle has only few - and most are suitable only for very fine work. So unless one plans to have multiple handpieces (or entire stations) for different jobs, the T245 is a lot more universal choice.
Compare for yourself:
T245 tips:
https://www.jbctools.com/c245-cartridges-product-19-category-4-menu-4.html (https://www.jbctools.com/c245-cartridges-product-19-category-4-menu-4.html)
T115 tips:
https://www.jbctools.com/c115-cartridges-product-1354-category-4-menu-4.html (https://www.jbctools.com/c115-cartridges-product-1354-category-4-menu-4.html)
E.g. the largest chisel tip in C115 series is C115223 - 2.4mm wide. Good luck trying to solder some large FET on a ground plane with that!
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Ok, so it seems like the working space is the main issue. I agree that I can work on small stuff with the T245, but I've never worked on phones or anything that tightly packed. How about thermal shock? Is it really a concern working on components that small? I'd think passives wouldn't be a big deal, but how about semiconductors and other stuff? QFP, SOT23, SOP8, diodes, inductors, etc? It seems like smaller irons (with less thermal mass) would have a temperature drop as soon as you touch a pad that the T245 wouldn't. Is it safer to use a smaller iron on those parts instead of a larger iron? I've been debating getting a T3B and start doing smaller stuff, but I also agree that the smaller handles don't have the wide array of tips that the T245 has. I guess you don't really need all those tips for small stuff though- pad sizes are small, you might do some drag soldering with a small hoof or blade tip, and maybe a larger chisel type for larger ground pads or something. So I can understand why the selection is smaller.
Any recommended cartridges from aliexpress? Or general consensus that only genuine ones are good?
It seems like the non-JBC tips are kind of a mixed bag. You can get some that will work fine (probably not as long as the real ones), you can get some that crap themselves in a month or two, and you can get some that don't really make it out of the box (the tip literally falls off because of a bad crimp job, or they glow red and burn out). Consistency is the real issue. I think it's also safe to say that the plating on the Chinese ones isn't the same quality, which would decrease life span. If you're only using them a couple of times a month, the Chinese ones would probably be OK (assuming they weren't defective). As for any specific vendors, I'm not sure. I think there was some talk about that further back in this thread.
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How about thermal shock? Is it really a concern working on components that small?
I believe total soldering time is the most important parameter. I killed boards and components by soldering them too long and/or too hot. JBC stations let soldering at lower temperatures because of better heat transfer.
I'm also not very skilled, but I'm yet to kill something even after over-exposing components to hotair. I once had an experiment where I heated a mosfet up to 500C or something for a long time. Its parameters drifted and it finally died, but I had to make it glow red before it failed. My conclusion is, unless it's a precision circuitry, it shouldn't be a concern.
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It is available in T12 and T245 both versions now, i have purchased T245 version from same vendor(Only available with this vendor in India) it is working well from past 8 months. I purchased few C245 original JBC Bits from ebay.
https://www.babaocamachine.com/?product_cat=0&s=T3A&post_type=product&et_search=true (https://www.babaocamachine.com/?product_cat=0&s=T3A&post_type=product&et_search=true)
Some review /Comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auCu-JZe4wY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auCu-JZe4wY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg)
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I just received my station, and so far I'm impressed with the external quality. I ordered with T245A handle and it's so tiny. I'm reriously thinking that it's mislabeled T210 or something. I'm definitely not buying T210 as T245 is already very small imo. The cord is very thin and quite soft, I like it. The only thing I don't like is the additional wire from the iron holder. But it works reliably, unlike shake sensor in my ksger station.
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don't like is the additional wire from the iron holder
yes but with some effort can mod to install a proper extension cable to run thru the base. and then include that / carry that signal within the standard gh12-5. {breaks t12 compatibility)
at least 2 of us have already done this {me and mario)... have moved on to other mods now
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hi again,
for anybody here who wants to order replacement MCU, in case of ESD damage becoming broken. Then I have just received mine from this aliexpress seller heres the link:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004482107212.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004482107212.html)
Cheap / affordable and the laser markings looks identical including the manufacturer logo etc. (or alternatively I suppose you might be able to buy them from LCSC if you want a more reputable supply chain).
have a nice day
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I read here that there are problems with adjusting the temperature. But that's not correct. You can write down your values that are actually present at the set 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 and then enter them in the menu, the stored curve is then corrected immediately, although nothing else is displayed when you call up the menu again. So you think that nothing was saved, but that's not true, the curve was definitely corrected. I even find it advantageous that you can correct the curve over 5 points if it is not so linear. But you can also only enter a value for 100 and 500, then it is just a straight curve.
I've also had the T3A for a few days and use original JBC tips from TME, I haven't tried the 3 Aixun stock soldering tips yet.
With the unprotected µC I/O pin, I will fix it with a diode from the I/O pin to VCC and from GND to the I/O pin and a resistor, don't think that such a big effort with an optocoupler is necessary.
Furthermore, I wrote to support@jcprogrammer.com and info@aixuntech.com whether it would not be possible 1. in a later firmware update to offer a setting for the overshoot or short-term overboost in the menu. 2. Offered to translate the menus into German for free. 3. I asked if you could delay the transfer of the set temperature from the storage locations by 1 second so that when you switch from 2 to 1 you don't select the higher temperature from storage location 3 for a short time and heat up unnecessarily before you reach storage location 1.
Let's see if anyone reports.
Here I just saw how the pin for detecting the sleep mode is wired.
https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf
It has an external pullup and the diode only allows the pin to be pulled to ground, so an overvoltage should not be able to reach the pin at all due to the diode.
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for anybody here who wants to order replacement MCU, in case of ESD damage becoming broken. Then I have just received mine from this aliexpress seller heres the link:
This is very good news. There was a chance to repair my soldering station.
Now you need a suitable programmer.
As far as I understand, the programmer from STLink will not work.
A special programmer for GD is expensive even for the Chinese.
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in case of ESD damage becoming broken
On another soldering station (T12), I made myself a very simple and reliable ESD protection on one small 24 volt relay. (plus capacitor and resistor). Everything is very simple and reliable. The signal from the stand turns on the relay, and it, in turn, switches the signal to the processor. 100% protection. No optocoupler needed and.....
If interested, I can draw a diagram and a photo.
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As far as I understand, the programmer from STLink will not work.
A special programmer for GD is expensive even for the Chinese.
not true, i myself have taken dump from my own aixun t3a station using the $3 chinese clone "stlink v2" you can pickup for dirt cheap on aliexpress
there is already the pads on the t3a's controller PCB, where you can solder a simple 0.1" inch header for the 3-4 pins SWD programmer connection
I also recorded the steps already in a pastie, here you can just follow my instructions for connecting over cmdline with openocd program to take flash dump of the firmware:
https://gist.github.com/dreamcat4/9022f7efd0e73f411b677fe0ad8b2708
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After my AIXUN soldering station broke, I converted it to a KSGER T12 board with David firmware.
Here's what happened (with protection on the relay):
P.S. This protection really works. Now I use this soldering station all the time.
It was too lazy to make one good printed circuit board. Therefore, I used Dremel - anyway, no one will see the board inside. :)
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how to solder programming header. and to make it permanently accessible from outside. so can program even after reassembly:
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not true, i myself have taken dump from my own aixun t3a station using the $3 chinese clone "stlink v2" you can pickup for dirt cheap on aliexpress
there is already the pads on the t3a's controller PCB, where you can solder a simple 0.1" inch header for the 3-4 pins SWD programmer connection
I also recorded the steps already in a pastie, here you can just follow my instructions for connecting over cmdline with openocd program to take flash dump of the firmware:
https://gist.github.com/dreamcat4/9022f7efd0e73f411b677fe0ad8b2708
Thank you - I'll take a closer look.
I have this programmer.
And I will order the processor on Aliexpress.
P.S. Oh! Linux! I never used it. Are there programs for Windows? It's been years for me to start learning Linux just to program one microcontroller :)
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On another soldering station (T12), I made myself a very simple and reliable ESD protection on one small 24 volt relay. (plus capacitor and resistor). Everything is very simple and reliable. The signal from the stand turns on the relay, and it, in turn, switches the signal to the processor. 100% protection. No optocoupler needed and.....
If interested, I can draw a diagram and a photo.
Please provide any details on this mod. Thanks!
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anyone have a current list of in stock cap part numbers for these? all the one i usually use are out of stock everywhere, i know someone posted way back in the beginning of this thread some models. just curious before i start digging around looking. i have one unit where one of the caps finally did fail and i figure while im at it all just go ahead and recap all of the ones in use at the shop (12 of them)
looks like they are also now going to be selling single channel versions of the 420 model stations as well as upgradeable versions along side the t420d where you only get one handle and stand and can later buy the second one and add it.
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Please provide any details on this mod. Thanks!
What are you specifically interested in? It's a very simple diagram. Relay (v23079a1005b301) and resistor with capacitor (to protect against contact bounce). These elements are selected according to the duration of the relay operation pause, which you like.
One group of contacts closes the socket on the back of the soldering station to the case (minus 24 volts). I used the second group of contacts in my station as an indicator of the stand mode - I connected the blue and red LEDs.
P.S. See the next post for the correct one.
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What advantages should a relay have over an optocoupler. An induction voltage is generated at the magnet coil without a freewheeling diode and you don't want to have the contact bouncing on the side to the µC either.
Against an eletrocstatic discharge you can take a ceramic capacitor with an ESD fixed resistor in front of it, the capacity e.g. 10nF does the discharge load so much that the voltage is totally pulled down, then you could still install the 2 diodes one from GND to µC input and one from the µC input to VCC, if you want to relieve the internal of the µC.
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An induction voltage is generated at the magnet coil without a freewheeling diode and you don't want to have the contact bouncing on the side to the µC either.
I'm sorry - I forgot to draw a diode parallel to the relay winding. I'll fix it now.
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What advantages should a relay have over an optocoupler.
The relay was in stock from a faulty air conditioner. :)
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Against an eletrocstatic discharge you can take a ceramic capacitor with an ESD fixed resistor in front of it, the capacity e.g. 10nF does the discharge load so much that the voltage is totally pulled down, then you could still install the 2 diodes one from GND to µC input and one from the µC input to VCC, if you want to relieve the internal of the µC.
These circuits are in the soldering station circuit itself. But they didn't protect my microprocessor. The port is broken on VCC. The relay will provide complete galvanic isolation of the port.
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https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_schematics/blob/master/aixun_t3a.pdf (https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_schematics/blob/master/aixun_t3a.pdf)
The original circuit of the pin is listed at the bottom right.
A small RC circuit could be enough here.
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anyone have a current list of in stock cap part numbers for these? all the one i usually use are out of stock everywhere, i know someone posted way back in the beginning of this thread some models. just curious before i start digging around looking. i have one unit where one of the caps finally did fail and i figure while im at it all just go ahead and recap all of the ones in use at the shop (12 of them)
looks like they are also now going to be selling single channel versions of the 420 model stations as well as upgradeable versions along side the t420d where you only get one handle and stand and can later buy the second one and add it.
Pickins' are slim. 2 of the 4 values I used are out of stock, but these should be acceptable replacements. (From Mouser).
470uf 35v- 35ZLH470MEFC10X16 (10,000 hour)
82uf 400v- UCY2G820MHD3TN (12,000 hour)
10uf 50v- ELE-500ELL100ME11D (10,000 hour)
1000uf 35v- Things get a little complicated here. Diameter is important here, I used a 10mm diameter x 25mm height, 10,000 hour cap that is out of stock. There are only 20mm high and 30mm high caps in stock. The 20mm ones have a max of 2,000 hours, the 30mm ones are 4,000 or 10,000 hour. I'd think you could get a 30mm tall cap in there, but can't confirm. So measure it first. Even a 2,000 hour cap should last you around 6 years. Those two are the closest to the heat sink, but it seems rare that people draw more than 10% sustained power, so I don't think that Mosfet really gets that consistently hot. I'm assuming a 60c internal ambient temperature (which is probably generous).
2,000 hour, 20mm Rubycon- 35PX1000MEFC10X20
10,000 hour 30mm United Chemi-Con- EKYB350ELL102MJ30S
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for two I/O
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/A200/USBLC6-2_ST_ENG_TDS.pdf
or a CAN bus ESD protection diode
https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/PESD2CAN.pdf
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Nevertheless, Chinese developers did not bother with good protection. In my case, the D5 diode was broken, after which the processor port failed.
I do not impose my scheme on anyone - it suits me perfectly. Works correctly. It also indicates the status of the stand.
I moved the handle connector to the back panel, and put a switch in front, like in Aixun 3B. I just put a two-color LED in the backlight of the button
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I didn't say that you're pushing your solution on anyone, I just wanted to show that you can make it a little easier.
How is the situation where you work with the Aixun? Synthetic floor or do you work with well insulated shoes? I don't know the situation at home with static electricity because I'm walking around without shoes.
Has anyone informed Aixun about this ESD issue? Maybe they'll bring out a PCB version 1.3.
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I wrote a letter to Aixun technical support with a description of the problem, but did not wait for a response. Didn't insist. Remade the soldering station for another controller. All other components are already there: power supply, housing, soldering iron handle.
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I have purchased T3A with T245 handle. When i tried to use T12 handle after wiring modification I had issue, T12 handle which detects correctly , but it doesn't read back the temperature correctly
upgraded firmware to 1.27(Latest as on 4th Jan 2023) , after firmware upgrade T12 handle and/ bits are working fine.
Just noticed , only original bits are working fine but showing as T245 instead T12, heat up time is 5-6 seconds slower than T245 bits. Other branded T12 tips are not working LCD screen starts blinking.
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just a heads up, though it should be obvious, Don't be a dumbass like me who plugs the upgraded stand wire into the stations Ground socket instead of the 'in port1' under it. i did that and if you boot it up while the iron is in the stand, ital max out the temp! i was watching the screen at 30c wondering whats going on then looked up to see my tip glowing, soon as i took the iron out it was reading 600c :S
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who plugs the upgraded stand wire into the stations Ground socket instead of the 'in port1' under it
yeah i didnt like this either, the ports are too easy to confuse with each other. so what i ended up doing is (to predict i would do this)... just ordered some different colored version of these same banana plug terminals off aliexpress
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103877494.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103877494.html)
so while you are doing other kinds of mods for this station, i did not actually change this plug for the stand detect (which is black and still remains the same). however i instead changed the other gnd terminal. so that color got swapped from black ---> green
it is very much harder to make this mistake now.
however the +24v output is gone. it was removed and replaced entirely with a gh12-5 connector. and that new plug now actually can also carry that stand detect signal on the unconnected pin 1 to the stand cradle. which is then fitted with its own pair of gh12-5 too. so the handle plugs into that, and the stand detect is passed thru to base station.
so i dont even need to plugin any seperate stand detect wire anymore anyhow. its just kept in reserve there as an alternate system. for other situation where its being used for mobile field work and is away from any desk. so when have to use some other stand, a more portable hanging 'hook' style of soldering stand. which is just merely a bent piece of metal sheet. that is like you find comes with the really cheapest irons. for hanging up when there is no desk about (for the mobile use only). so for that one i need to keep available that legacy 4mm banana socket.
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I got an answer on January 3rd. My request will be forwarded to the appropriate department. It sounds good. I'll report how it goes.
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Guys i want to buy this station....
On ali express in some stores called JC AIXUN T3A and in other stores just AIXUN T3A
Does anybody knows if there is a difference?
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no difference at all
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no difference at all
ok thats good! Thanks for the info!
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Ha-ha, I just noticed that cartridge that was put with the station does a bit of "singing" when I don't solder. Not loud, but I can hear it.
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Hi,
I've been using a t3b for a while and on the back of that I purchased the t3a, I've been using with a real JBC 245 cartridge for drag soldering with zero issues.
Today I wanted to use it for a different use so switched to one of the 3 axiun cartridges that came with it.
None of them work, they start to heat and I see 100% power but all 3 refuse to go up to anything resembling a soldering temperate, one goes to 77, another to 50 and another to 35.
If I switch back to the genuine JBC tip it comes straight up to temperature (well, after a few seconds of heating), swap back to an axiun one and the same issue occurs.
I figured I'd try updating the firmware, but I don't have a windows computer, I tried using a VM (windows 10) but while the USB device starts enumerating (it sees the device and reads the descriptors) the driver doesn't start and I have a yellow exclamation mark on the driver, I've tried a number of things but I couldn't resolve that, so I couldn't update the firmware.
Any suggestions? Anybody else experienced this? I've search the web, YouTube and on here and couldn't seem to find any similar issues?
Thanks
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Any suggestions? Anybody else experienced this? I've search the web, YouTube and on here and couldn't seem to find any similar issues?
yeah it's not uncommon to see such issues with chinese clone tips.
Somebody who already did extensive investigations on this forum was DavidA1pha, who experienced a lot of issues which lead to some considerable examination of T12 tips.
Sorry I don't have any good or specific advice to give, other than to save up, and replace over time for genuine JBC tips instead.
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Any suggestions? Anybody else experienced this? I've search the web, YouTube and on here and couldn't seem to find any similar issues?
yeah it's not uncommon to see such issues with chinese clone tips.
Somebody who already did extensive investigations on this forum was DavidA1pha, who experienced a lot of issues which lead to some considerable examination of T12 tips.
Sorry I don't have any good or specific advice to give, other than to save up, and replace over time for genuine JBC tips instead.
Many thanks for the reply, I do appreciate it.
I figured as much to be honest, although I did expect that the ones I received with the iron would at the very least heat up correctly, however, I only switched the tips because the drag solder tip was a bit awkward to use and the only other tips I had were the ones that have remained sealed since I received the iron, so I guess I'll go and get some more genuine JBC ones.
The iron does work incredibly well with the genuine tip, although it looks like I might have to set aside some time to read through this particular thread.
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its so odd I have prob like 100 aixun tips or more from all the stations I've ordered (12 of each model including the t420d version) and I've only had a total of 2 tips with issues and only one that didn't work. I've also bought a handful of others by different companies and they normally work fine now they are NOT as good as the original ever are imo but for most people they are just fine. the sunshine brand on Ali you can get dirt cheap and they are basically identical to the aixuns for those who want China ones that are cheap. like the three pack of c210"s are u Der 13$ for all 3
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Hi,
I've been using a t3b for a while and on the back of that I purchased the t3a, I've been using with a real JBC 245 cartridge for drag soldering with zero issues.
Today I wanted to use it for a different use so switched to one of the 3 axiun cartridges that came with it.
...
Any suggestions? Anybody else experienced this? I've search the web, YouTube and on here and couldn't seem to find any similar issues?
Thanks
On mine the Aixun tips do work but they tend to overshoot badly and one even got glowing red hot for a bit for whatever reason. The genuine JBC tips don't do that. OTOH, the Aixun tips are not all that useful due to their shapes anyway, so I am mostly using the JBC ones.
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now that I agree with the tips they give you are meh shape wise
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What tips do you guys use? My most common is knife. I also like a spoon for drag soldering. I didn't use others much. I wonder if it makes sense to buy a chisel.
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I am doing most work with chisel tips of various sizes, those seem to have the best thermal transfer to the joint for me. And have a bent conical tip, that one is useful for SMD work in tight spaces.
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The chisel seems to be the best general use for me.
I have the C245-773 and C245-770 original tips.
Both leave the chinese ones in the dust. Even the small 773 is better that the knife from T3A box.
I'm waiting for the C245-755 to do some major melting ;D
I haven't seen any discussions about the L245 soldering pen that has better contact to the tip and I find it better suited for me as it's portable with a 20v supply brick.
There is a review on "SDG Electronics" channel.
It has a NCE30P25S as the driving mosfet.
Just as important the is no buzzing as the contacts seems to be more stable. I can't see any difference from T3A to the L245 in driving original tips, both do great.
In the end I have desolderer the usb c connector and feed wires directly to the pcb as there was a 1V drop with the connector.
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al777 Thank you for sharing your ESD protection design. I am waiting on my station to arrive, and I wanted to know what hole size you used for J2 and J3, the Ground and Input lines. I don't have the station in to measure the screw size and wanted to get a board designed asap. Also, what gauge wires are used back there? I noticed you crimped some connectors, and I wanted to get everything done nice and properly like yours, but I need to know what size connectors to get.
For the front panel, I saw a teardown where it looks like there is not much room to put anything. Since I would rather not have an external box that has to be plugged in, would a surface-mount TVS diode soldered directly on the connector pins and ground be sufficient?
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Hi Brando753, the actual holes diameter is 6.4mm, between-centers distance is 14mm. But I'd strongly recommend to wait for the station to arrive and measure factual dimensions. It would be frustrating to get PCB manufactured and then find that AiXun have made minor adjustments to the back panel and called it version xx.yy+1 ...
I don't recall what the wire gauge was - I used the original wiring, just re-soldered connections on the back edge of PSU board (they were subpar), and snipped off one of the ring terminals as one wire was to be soldered into the new PCB after my modification. For the one additional wire - its gauge is not critical, it only carries current for the LED in the optocoupler (~2 mA) and both ends are soldered, no crimping on that one either.
As for putting the TVS inside of the connector - I assume you are thinking about putting a TVS into the handle's connector... If so - then the answer is no, it will not be a proper ESD protection. The problem is: if your handle, while disconnected from the base, have gained significant ESD potential - the TVS in the handle will not be effective, as it is not having a path to ground for ESD potential to be discharged to. Until the handle is connected to the base, of course... but when you connect the handle there is no guarantee that the ground pin will make contact first... so, your ESD-charged wires leading to MCU inputs may make contact first and the ESD event will happily occur, frying your MCU input(s) before the ground pin have made its contact thus "enabling" TVS protection... A kludgy attempt to mitigate that would be to have a longer pin for ground in the connector (similar to how USB-A male power pins are longer than the data pins), but that is both unrealistic with the GX connector and simply not an elegant engineering solution. Hence - either open up the front panel and modify the MCU PCB, or go the route I went for. Good luck and have fun doing whatever you will choose to do!
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Hooray! I repair my Aixun T3A. If you remember, then my port in the processor, which is responsible for the "Dormancy" mode, failed.
Thanks to Dreamcat4 for the link to purchase the processor on Aliexpress.
The GD32F305RET6 processor was mounted at the factory, dreamcat4 wrote that GD32F303RCT6 is enough - it is cheaper.
I put it on.
I flashed it with a Chinese ST-Link V2 programmer using the STM32 ST-Link utility program under Windows 10.
The program does not determine the type of processor, but nevertheless flashes it correctly. Program settings in the photo 4.
The chip (if necessary) was erased separately beforehand.
Special thanks to c0d3z3r0 for the firmware file.
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Special thanks to c0d3z3r0 for the firmware file.
Nice, great to know my "DRM" bypass works :D
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Question: Who uses the T12 pen? How is the sleep function implemented in this mode?
I don't fall asleep. Only when you put the soldering iron on the stand does the 'dormancy' mode turn on. Why is there a vibration sensor in the handle then?
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The latest firmware version is 1.27. If you hold down the "CH" button for a long time, the soldering station switches to the "TEST" mode.
What is this mode? Judging by the photo, the heating / temperature control mode has changed.
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Has anyone seen a display from this soldering station for sale? MY240H2416S-V2
My display has a thin (1 pixel) horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen.
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Has anyone seen a display from this soldering station for sale? MY240H2416S-V2
My display has a thin (1 pixel) horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen.
I broke the display when disassemling the main unit. Unfortuately, I wasn't able to get the MY240H2416S-V2.
Instead I got a JLT24008D: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32347021854.html (16 bit version)
However, that required patching the lcd initialization (gamma table and invert bit): https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/tree/master/patch
Note that this patch is version specific (v1.26).
JLT24008C might work without any firmware patches (no guarantee!).
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32349236024.html (choose 16Bit ST7789 LCD)
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32639132217.html (choose 16Bit ST7789 Screen)
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Thank you. I found these options. But I needed your approval that they would fit.
I'm still thinking about the advisability of replacing the display - only the green color in one small strip does not work. You can see it in my previous photos.
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Thank you. I found these options. But I needed your approval that they would fit.
I'm still thinking about the advisability of replacing the display - only the green color in one small strip does not work. You can see it in my previous photos.
Yeah, I see. Well, since you already have the case open, it's easy to replace. Not sure what the new display costs including shipping for you, for me it'd be roughly 10€.
If it was my device, I'd just do it, but got for the C version display this time (hopefully without patching fw).
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If it was my device, I'd just do it, but got for the C version display this time (hopefully without patching fw).
You talked me into it :) :-+
Ordered here: https://aliexpress.ru/item/32379063593.html (https://aliexpress.ru/item/32379063593.html)
The price is also about $10
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Special thanks to c0d3z3r0 for the firmware file.
Nice, great to know my "DRM" bypass works :D
nice! I missed that post not sure how, ill have to try to dig back and find it to keep on hand. awesome to know it works. appreciate you posting it we have a bunch of these in use and thus is great to have just in case
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If it was my device, I'd just do it, but got for the C version display this time (hopefully without patching fw).
You talked me into it :) :-+
Ordered here: https://aliexpress.ru/item/32379063593.html (https://aliexpress.ru/item/32379063593.html)
The price is also about $10
Heh, I can't read anything there! :P Let me know if it worked :)
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Delivery of the parcel is promised only in a month.
Let's wait.
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Delivery of the parcel is promised only in a month.
Let's wait.
Ugh. Fortunately I was able to get it delivered in just one week (with 10-days delivery option)
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After some back and forward with Axiun by email, sending photos I eventually got a response of;
“We have already fixed it”.
I then had to try and coax the answer out of them, since clearly if they had fixed it, it wasn’t fixed for me and was the whole reason for the series of emails.
It turns out there was a bad bunch of cartridges that didn’t work, and all 3 of mine were from this batch which is why none of them worked.
I lost the will to live at this point since I didn’t buy the iron directly, it was from another vendor on AliExpress and further to that it wasn’t ordered by me, my wife did it, so I cut my losses and just bought other tips rather than go through a whole other set of exchanges with somebody else.
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Got the display from Aliexpress. In appearance, it completely coincides with the one set by the manufacturer.
Earned immediately after connection. Delivery - two weeks. Perfect packaging to prevent damage to the display during shipping.
I don’t give a link to the display - Russia has its own application for shopping on Aliexpress. Search by seller JR E-Shop
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edit found it. im going to order in a handful just to have on hand between the 3a and 3b we have 24 of them in the shop i just want to have them hanging around in case we need them. thanks
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I couldn't find any T3B 220V T245 version on Aliexpress. Do you think it is because that configuration is not in production?
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Only T3A 220V T245 version
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I couldn't find any T3B 220V T245 version on Aliexpress. Do you think it is because that configuration is not in production?
The stations have universal switching supplies, I don't think there is a 220V version. They are all the same. Manual says: "Input Voltage: AC85-220V"
https://aixuntech.com/userimages/2022-11/t3b%20user%20manual_en.pdf
EDIT: T3B doesn't support T245 handle. T3B is for the smaller T210 handle. If you want T245, you need T3A station - it is also 200W vs 100W T3B.
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the t3b does need you to choose 110 or 220v i can tell you i have ordered from a number of sellers who have both listed? this store was excellent to order from imo and shipping was actually very fast compared to others. i have ordered from this store multiple times without issues. one issue is they do not offer the t3b model with the 245 handle. only the 210 or 115. for the 245 you need the t3a model. here is a listing for the t3b 210 version. the t3a however some sellers offer both some do not.
for example here is a seller who offers the choice of either https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803818902607.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.cfaf70f6rooBFY&algo_pvid=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e&algo_exp_id=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803818902607.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.cfaf70f6rooBFY&algo_pvid=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e&algo_exp_id=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B)"sku_id"%3A"12000030340517426"%7D&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21131.0%21131.0%21%21%21%21%21%4021227d8316778273643327114d0705%2112000030340517426%21sea%21US%21908973240&curPageLogUid=0bcPlDbp6i5P
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And I have a problem again. When assembling the soldering station, I decided to test it from a 24-volt laboratory power supply. And when connected, the DC/DC converter 24V -> 3V failed. As a result, all 24 volts fell into the circuit.
Bottom line: The microprocessor, display, operational amplifier, DC/DC microcircuit are faulty.
Chinese developers did not provide any protection in case of failure of the controller's power stabilizer.
In the circuit diagram, the author did not indicate the type of operational amplifier. It is possible that this is SGM8541XN5.
I didn't have that. Therefore, I installed SGM8551. I had to replace one resistor. Otherwise, there were unreliable temperature readings.
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the t3b does need you to choose 110 or 220v i can tell you i have ordered from a number of sellers who have both listed? this store was excellent to order from imo and shipping was actually very fast compared to others. i have ordered from this store multiple times without issues. one issue is they do not offer the t3b model with the 245 handle. only the 210 or 115. for the 245 you need the t3a model. here is a listing for the t3b 210 version. the t3a however some sellers offer both some do not.
for example here is a seller who offers the choice of either https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803818902607.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.cfaf70f6rooBFY&algo_pvid=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e&algo_exp_id=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803818902607.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.cfaf70f6rooBFY&algo_pvid=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e&algo_exp_id=24f05e23-189c-4514-87b6-66da12cd6e9e-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B)"sku_id"%3A"12000030340517426"%7D&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21131.0%21131.0%21%21%21%21%21%4021227d8316778273643327114d0705%2112000030340517426%21sea%21US%21908973240&curPageLogUid=0bcPlDbp6i5P
GIven that the Aixun manual says explicitly that the power supply is universal, I suspect that the sellers are only indicating that to let you decide which type of mains cable they bundle with it. 110V - US plug, 220V probably Schuko.
Also, your broken links show a T3A, not T3B. I have T3A on my desk - and that one certainly doesn't come in two different voltage versions.
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In the circuit diagram, the author did not indicate the type of operational amplifier. It is possible that this is SGM8541XN5.
#
Nope. According to the datasheet, the marking would be "8541".
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I ordered 8541 from Aliexpress. When I receive the parcel, I will put it in the scheme - I'll see how it will work. For 8551, the 150 kOm resistor had to be replaced with 249kOm. The temperature was incorrectly determined and there were unstable readings of + - 20 degrees.
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A follow up on my follow up.
The t3a I bought (well my wife did for Christmas) I was using with a real JBC tip was working great. I needed a different tip, so tried one that came with it….and it didn’t work, it heated up by 10 degrees and then did nothing else.
Thinking it was a one off, I took another one of the 3 supplied and…same result, flipped back to the original JBC and it worked straight off.
So tried the final bundled tip and that didn’t work either, 3 supplied tips of 3 different styles and none of them worked.
I contacted Axiun who after a few days of emailing told me there was an issue with the batch of tips mine were in, because it didn’t come direct from Axiun they said to contact the seller, and well, life is too short, so I bought a few others to try.
They turned up a while back, but i am away from home, my daughter posted them to me and I tried the new tips and they all worked without issue, they’re never going to be as good a original JBC tips but they work fine and thankfully both the handle and station is fine, I did worry that I had some fault with the station.
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New firmware 1.31
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The T3AS was released. I had found that T3AS firmware earlier (https://github.com/snakeeyesinc/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/README.md?plain=1#L18 (https://github.com/snakeeyesinc/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/README.md?plain=1#L18)).
"upgraded version of T3A with the new integrated design"
https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3as-allinone-200w-soldering-station-economical-welding-station-with-t245-handle/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3as-allinone-200w-soldering-station-economical-welding-station-with-t245-handle/)
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on the older v1.26 firmware there is only just 1 feature that i wish would be added (for my own tastes)....
the ability to press a button on the front panel to force toggle the sleep mode. for example if the cradle is not plugged in (or not working) for whatever variety of reasons. then i still want to retain a manual capability to force sleep mode, or turn the heater fully on/off
please let me know anybody if you see this feature added on later firmware(s). would be great to see, was my only ever complains
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The T3AS was released.....
"upgraded version of T3A with the new integrated design"
https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3as-allinone-200w-soldering-station-economical-welding-station-with-t245-handle/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3as-allinone-200w-soldering-station-economical-welding-station-with-t245-handle/)
"the 200W high power ring transformer" - Have the Chinese abandoned the switching power supply and returned to a simple transformer?
I wonder what's inside the new soldering station.
We will wait for photos of the first buyers.
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Not sure if this is necessary... I don't like the integrated stand, I put the base unit towards the back of my bench, and have my stand and tips up closer to me. It's just a smaller profile of what I have around me. Second (this doesn't apply to everyone), I'm left handed, and my microscope at work is also mounted on the left side. Clearance is already an issue to the point where I'm considering sawing off the back third of a handle so I have more vertical room all around the microscope (not just under it). Third, why do people make such a big deal about the power supply? It works. What more does it need to do? Sure, if you're looking at the output with an oscilloscope it will look better, but what is the real-world difference? You turn it on, and it gets hot. It's not complicated. Obviously, the control board has more going on, but will a toroidal transformer and different PSU make that perform any better? Not really. Aixun is advertising better temp accuracy, but the T3A is maybe +/- 5 degrees. I can live with that. The on/off is still on the back, I would've hoped that they made it more like the T3B. Overall, I'm just kind of scratching my head and wondering if Aixun isn't trying to reinvent the wheel.
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as soon as they ship it out ill have more info they are sending me one (when they start shipping them). I agree though I just don't see the need for this. I will def not "upgrade" my t3a's to these I personally hate the stand on top like that. i was told there are a few other things coming soon also and If what I was told will be correct im just left the same scratching my head wondering why. maybe just to have something "new" or for cost savings i.e. shortage of parts etc. but I did contact a few larger resellers I deal with and none of them have any info on it yet
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New firmware 1.31
interesting its not listed on the updates page ill have to check the t3b, 420d, p2408s etc
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Download the new version of Aixun. You will need to create your account. The program checks for updates at startup and, if necessary, downloads them. Unlike the previous version, you can not only update the firmware, but also go back if you do not like the new firmware.
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one issue with the new version of the program i found. if you have more then one of each station (example we have 12 t3a's one on each bench etc) once you program one of them it created a folder and will not let you upgrade another station. close the program fully then you have to open the install folder (typically program files x86) then open the aixun folder then open downdata and delete any of the folders there. you can leave the 3 files alone. but what was happening was the new version would say already up to date no matter what version tried on a different station of the same model (and even did it going from the t3a to the t3b) deleting that folder then reopening the program will then allow you to program another station. then repeat for each one. ive sent them an email letting them know about it. i just updated the t3a's, t3b's, t420d's and p2408s's we have. was a real pain having to do that every time. tomm i have to do the other 3 t420d we have since those are at the other office.
and the p2408s will not update on the new program version for some reason i had to use the older software to get it to 1.26 then the new version would work in case anyone has one of those.
i really liked the old aixun updates web page though instead of having to check in the program all the time to see which is current. that made my like a lot easier so i could check once a week and upgrade as needed with as many stations as we have running.
i also noticed a few small issues with 1.31 for the t3a i let them know about also mostly graphical and spelling though.
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Hello, Does anyone have a PCB design for this soldering station or know where to find it
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Hello, Does anyone have a PCB design for this soldering station or know where to find it
Here are the schematics, but I guess you mean the layout?
https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/tree/master/schematics
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I mean the design of the PCB from this project. The file aixun_t3a.kicad_sch opens in kidcad and the file aixun_t3a.kicad_pcb after opening there is only a frame and no PCB. The diagram lacks the values of capacitors, types of transistors and diodes. You can ask for their values
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The file aixun_t3a.kicad_sch opens in kidcad and the file aixun_t3a.kicad_pcb after opening there is only a frame and no PCB.
Yep, bc I only RE'ed the schematic. PCB would be a pita. Feel free to contribute :P
The diagram lacks the values of capacitors, types of transistors and diodes.
Right, that's bc I didn't want to desolder them for measuring.
You can ask for their values
What do you mean?
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I thought you might know the values of these elements. If these values were known, I would try to design a PCB for your system. Maybe it would be possible to fit these capacitors in the system.What are the values of Vin and Vcc
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They also new released AiXun T3BS. How about the new features compare to the T3B?
https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3bs-integrated-75w-best-soldering-irons-and-station-for-electronics-repair-of-2023/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3bs-integrated-75w-best-soldering-irons-and-station-for-electronics-repair-of-2023/)
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maybe they fixed the ESD protection. to not break the GPIO pin. other than that... it seems rest is mostly just cost reduction measures
But by personal user preference the separate stand or integrated one. Different set of pros/cons
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Hello guys!
First of all a new update came out!
I've took the time and fixed the changelog page, now you can see new as well as old versions, also I've added a link to download new updates.
You will have to open the download link in a new tab, as modern browsers blocks such downloads that does not use SSL from an SSL page.
https://ireun.github.io/aixun-changelog/#t3a ;D
Also I have a question - my handle sometimes bugs out, the base unit tells me that the tip is not connected, or that the handle is not connected, or that the tip is connected despite that it is not. It seems to happen when 'shaking' the cable - is it normal?
Also I got a unit with a 'QC certificate' with a 16.03.2023 date on it. It seems that they have changed to SMPS PCB. Unfortunately I could not pull out the PCB to take better photos, as it seems to be glued on the underside or something. Take a look at the photos. :) I can see there are more caps, there is no heatsink ( probably the case acts as one ) and that there is a 2nd output header, directly connected to the 1st one..
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What vendor did you buy yours from @IreuN?
Looks like it might just be rubber glued with alastic to bottom to make it harder to pull out. Can you tell if that’s a component t on the bottom side of the board or some kind of rubber piece?
I just ordered one from easy100fix. Hope the pcb changes are good things and not cheapening out the units.
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@jbf : I've ordered from easy100fix on Mar 24, 2023, there are definitely components on the underside. And that white 'glue' is kind soft, but kind of hard, that's all I know, really could not pulled that out, maybe I will try to put some alkohol to loosen it a bit..
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Bought mine earlier on (last year) from easy100fix... my PSU module has 0 parts on it's underside. So clearly they have changed something there. Or new revision / new batch. Whatever.
To pull out the PSU module, you will need to remove that silver cap head screw that is holding it captive on the sliding rail. Which you can see on your photo, on the end of the left internal rail, (it is blurred / out of focus)
You will also discover that you will need to access from the front too.... to remove front glass needs some hot air, to warm the glue. And some careful prying the front glass face. Be sure to heat the front panel warm enough to have a soft glue. Because otherwise you will rip tiny screws on internal front panel (as i did). They have some teeny screws behind the glue.
So yes, with generous hot air. Then should be OK. You can then get better access from the front side, for example to unplug the internal 24 DC red and black short power wire (of front pcb attaching to the ac PSU module).
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Yes, I know, i've removed the front panel too (photo above is from the front), removed both flat-head screws, from front and rear,
still no luck with removing the PCB :(
EDIT: I got it! After much poking the white goo it got loose. Photos incoming! ;D
EDIT2: Uploaded! Let me know what You think
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Interesting the psu pcb says t3a/t3b now. They clearly combined one board for both then I guess?
I noticed that the 936 handle is not listed as compatible anymore. I wonder if now it won’t support the 936 handle. I bought this unit over the t420 only because it could run the 936 handle which I used constantly for threaded inserts.
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IreuN, You'll have to glue these parts again now. Aixun engineers have abandoned cooling radiators. And use the body of the soldering station as a cooler.
If I had such a power supply, I would have modified it. These parts (transistor and two diodes) were fixed with screws with a nut. I don't trust the thermal conductivity of Chinese glue.
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IreuN, You'll have to glue these parts again now. Aixun engineers have abandoned cooling radiators. And use the body of the soldering station as a cooler.
If I had such a power supply, I would have modified it. These parts (transistor and two diodes) were fixed with screws with a nut. I don't trust the thermal conductivity of Chinese glue.
Now I'm re-thinking this station. Probaby should have just gone with T420. Probably cost me an arm and a leg to return it to Aliexpress. Ugh.
Well that is pretty annoying. I assume caps will still need to be replaced so that means anyone will have to re-glue it?
Isnt silastic silicone? I thought silicone was bad at transferring heat?
What would one use to re-glue it back? It looks to me like (what I just found online) some kind of silicone thermal conductive gap filler product.
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Aixun engineers have abandoned cooling radiators. And use the body of the soldering station as a cooler.
Yeah, but I don't mind that, they moved everything that could get hot to the underside, away from the caps. Also It's not like the station generates much heat, since it only gets tip to the temp and then holds that. The SMPS is 'idle' most of the time.
Interesting the psu pcb says t3a/t3b now. They clearly combined one board for both then I guess?
I noticed that the 936 handle is not listed as compatible anymore. I wonder if now it won’t support the 936 handle. I bought this unit over the t420 only because it could run the 936 handle which I used constantly for threaded inserts.
I don't get why it would not support it. The front panel hasn't changed, only the SMPS has changed, whose sole job is to supply 24V to the front panel.
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Pre-order for the Aixun T3AS and T3BS. Price increased from the T3A and T3B.
Anyone have info on the new upgrades?
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so from one of my friends who is a seller in china (im waiting for a couple units both a and b) im told this new unit is basically both a t3a and t3b sort of. in other words they can set it for which ever they want it to be similar to the was the 2408(s) model is you simply pull the board and by soldering one small jumper i.e. 2 pads together this makes it 110v and by opening it then its 220v. for this new model they (this is just info im given and sometimes when we talk things are not always communicated properly with the language barrier) have it so they can load it with one firmware or the other for the new one and then it will be that model or something to that nature. imo it def was a cost reduction for them but might raise cost to the end user since its kind of 2 units in one. also the prices need to settle. just like the new 3408 psu they have now they were selling for WAY over msrp when they first showed up on aliexpress and prices are now settling down i got one with all the extras and cables for 5$ more then the msrp on the aixun website then got a discount on that price. so i would never recc buying a new aixun unit until prices settle unless you NEED it for some reason or for a review. i confirmed the msrp of the new t3bs model is 132$ usd and the t3as is 102$ usd and the difference is because of the handles having different prices. where the 210 and 115 cost more then the 245 as well as the tip cost difference.
i also confirmed the 936 was removed as an option for the t3as (or at least that was the answer i got from aixun and my contact at phonefix) so in the end aixun simply grabs one psu and whichever front panel (i am also told supposedly soon they may have a t3a with a t3b like setup) with rear connection but again this info did come directly from aixun but someone i know who sells these and they sell a LOT of them. once my sample gets here i can plug a 9 series in and see if it still shows up then you would have to find someone selling the handle.
sometimes aliexpress has a setup with certain sellers where you return the item to aliexpress and they give you / you buy the label from them directly and the cost is a lot less to ship it back could be worst asking since it doesnt use 936 handles you could say they made the change and you did not know it would not support it. now all this info could be wrong but this is a mix of info from both aixun directly and a reseller who sells hundreds of these units. who is close to aixun. i really like my 420 units but i still have both my t3a and t3b units also.
personally i MUCH prefer the separate unit and stand version so i can stack them i would never use these on my bench. but for someone with very limited space i understand.
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im also curious of the output voltage of p2 and p3 in the front. also what it says under the white wire hold down.
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> i also confirmed the 936 was removed as an option for the t3as (or at least that was the answer i got from aixun and my contact at phonefix)
Weird, their newest firmware file for T3AS definitely mentions the 936 handle. ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/L35WWpA.png)
> im also curious of the output voltage of p2 and p3 in the front. also what it says under the white wire hold down.
p2 and p3 are both 24V headers, they are both connected to the same 24V line. All I can see under that white wire hold down is T3A/T3B my guess is that it's probably the same text as on the underside "T3A/T3B_PWR_V1.0".
> Anyone have info on the new upgrades?
https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev - "T3AS firmware is for GD32F305/GD32F307 version of the board"
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they may remove the 936 in upcoming updates. again i dont have one here yet but i do have the handle and i can plug it in when it gets here. but that is what both of them told me. ill send them the info you gave me and verify that again
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Sure they can, but you can still downgrade to the previous version in such case. And if You can test the 936 handle than that would be best confirmation we could hope for. I don't think there is the need to ask them maybe they will let that be in the firmware.
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Would be a pretty bad move if they removed 936 from firmware updates as that means users who bought the original would be SOL if they still use the 936 handle type.
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Hmm, Im doing the attachments wrong, I'm putting them as inline expandable but i must be messing it up.
936 Handle
Not much to say about this one as likely no one else is probably going to buy one. I plugged it in to see if it worked and that's likely all the use it will see. Not a great fit in the stand, but sleeps right away as its all grounded. Has a cartridge/plug in heater. I will have to see if I can find spares anywhere.
I have the 245 New stand coming even though I don't mind the cheap one that came with it. Also have two TB3's coming, looking forward to checking them out.
I have very little time on this unit but so far I'm pretty happy. I recommended the KSGER stations before but they have really started to climb in price. So far this these stations seem to be a pretty good value.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Anyone have a fully accurate pin-out for a 936 style aixun handle? This pinout does not seem to make sense without knowing what is under the heatshrink. Especially why black and green share continuity and terminate on a single terminal. I'd assume there's got to be a thermocouple somewhere (which I'd assume would be a green and black wire).
Would like to adapt my old existing 936 handle since Aixun's are long sold out.
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Would be a pretty bad move if they removed 936 from firmware updates as that means users who bought the original would be SOL if they still use the 936 handle type.
Why would one want to use such a station with 936 irons? There are plenty of cheaper stations for 936.
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Heat set inserts and not wanting extra stations for no reason.
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it's understandable. what i think would be an alternative solution (for T245 handpiece) is:
to take a symmetrical or conical shaped tip. And then wedge some metal rings onto it. Of varing diameters to fit different sized heatserts...
however the heatserts probable have internal threads. So you would want such adaptor set to be like different sized threaded end piece. That somehow fits onto the main tip somehow.
Probably easier if you have machining tools. There are some like hollow threaded 'helical' thread inserts. Which are basically just like a coil. of the thread itself. But they are typically rather expensive. And might not come in all of the sizes you want.
Another solution is to petition JBC. And ask them as the manufacturer to start making a special heatsert tip (for T245 officially). Or otherwise ask the chinese to make clone tips (the ones who already makes the 936 style heatsert tips).
This is good options for other reasons, to do away with last remaining usage of those 936 handle. I would prefer that because my own hardware mods are simply not compatible with the laternative handles. Not 936, and not T12. After these modding my station only supports T245 handle (in the hardware / the physical rewiring thats been done to it).
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Oh right you did a mod to move the iron cable to the stand right? I was wanting to do something like this or just reroute a second gx12-5 port in place of the 24dc port. But yeah would still have to run the standby grounding wire unless changing the ports to fc12-6 like you deviously suggested.
Having tips made by jbc or clone tip mfg. would be great honestly but for some reason I feel it’s less likely.
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Yes, I know, i've removed the front panel too (photo above is from the front), removed both flat-head screws, from front and rear, still no luck with removing the PCB :(
EDIT: I got it! After much poking the white goo it got loose. Photos incoming! ;D
EDIT2: Uploaded! Let me know what You think
Thank you for the pics!
This PCB matches mine too (I bought earlier this year from AliE)
Quick question please: how did you get the PCB to shift? I know you said you poked the "glue", but there's one blob right under the middle and I'm afraid of knocking some SMDs off.
Do you think a bit of heat would help on the underside of the case?
I want to recap mine, but need to get the PCB out for the cap dimensions first!
Also, did you manage to put the glue back? I honestly don't know how they managed to put the glue there in the first place without smearing it all inside the case when you slide the PCB in.
ty!
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Yes, I know, i've removed the front panel too (photo above is from the front), removed both flat-head screws, from front and rear, still no luck with removing the PCB :(
EDIT: I got it! After much poking the white goo it got loose. Photos incoming! ;D
EDIT2: Uploaded! Let me know what You think
Thank you for the pics!
This PCB matches mine too (I bought earlier this year from AliE)
Quick question please: how did you get the PCB to shift? I know you said you poked the "glue", but there's one blob right under the middle and I'm afraid of knocking some SMDs off.
Do you think a bit of heat would help on the underside of the case?
I want to recap mine, but need to get the PCB out for the cap dimensions first!
Also, did you manage to put the glue back? I honestly don't know how they managed to put the glue there in the first place without smearing it all inside the case when you slide the PCB in.
ty!
I'm guessing its a liquid paste / gap filling compound that's thermally conductive and they use a syringe to dispense it between the mosfet's and case. That said, I am totally guessing as I've never used the stuff.
Maybe @IreuN or @masterhsake might know.
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Quick question please: how did you get the PCB to shift? I know you said you poked the "glue", but there's one blob right under the middle and I'm afraid of knocking some SMDs off.
Do you think a bit of heat would help on the underside of the case?
I want to recap mine, but need to get the PCB out for the cap dimensions first!
Also, did you manage to put the glue back? I honestly don't know how they managed to put the glue there in the first place without smearing it all inside the case when you slide the PCB in.
1. I've used these two tools (img) and wedged them between the goo and the case, thankfully I haven't scratched the case, but yeah, it wasn't the most refined method.
2. I've just slid the PCB back into place, it still was a rather tight fit, but probably not ideal.
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Hi Ireun,
Had you a chance to troubleshoot the connector problem you mentioned, during T3A usage. I bought same soldering station and have very same problems plus extra unusual issue - flashing LCD every few minutes while the unit is off :)
Did you notice that strange behaviour with your station?
I have checked M16 connector and it looks fine, front PCB with soldered connector also looks fine.
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Hi Ireun,
Had you a chance to troubleshoot the connector problem you mentioned, during T3A usage. I bought same soldering station and have very same problems plus extra unusual issue - flashing LCD every few minutes while the unit is off :)
Did you notice that strange behaviour with your station?
I have checked M16 connector and it looks fine, front PCB with soldered connector also looks fine.
Don't think this was IreuN. No history in their posts about this. What do you mean by "while unit is off"? By off you mean off-off, no power? I'd replace power switch and see if its still happening. If so then means its getting power from mains somehow. I'd assume something is wired wrong internal to allow this to happen but im no expert. There are schematics of the unit by codezero posted in this thread somewhere.
If you just recently bought the unit, i would reach out to the place you bought it from. Most reputable aliexpress sellers will try to make it right. Worst case reach out to Aixun support with video if your issue and maybe they will offer a replacement unit or something.
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Hi Ireun,
Had you a chance to troubleshoot the connector problem you mentioned, during T3A usage. I bought same soldering station and have very same problems plus extra unusual issue - flashing LCD every few minutes while the unit is off :)
Did you notice that strange behaviour with your station?
I have checked M16 connector and it looks fine, front PCB with soldered connector also looks fine.
Don't think this was IreuN. No history in their posts about this. What do you mean by "while unit is off"? By off you mean off-off, no power? I'd replace power switch and see if its still happening. If so then means its getting power from mains somehow. I'd assume something is wired wrong internal to allow this to happen but im no expert. There are schematics of the unit by codezero posted in this thread somewhere.
If you just recently bought the unit, i would reach out to the place you bought it from. Most reputable aliexpress sellers will try to make it right. Worst case reach out to Aixun support with video if your issue and maybe they will offer a replacement unit or something.
It was IreuN, he posted that he bought newer version of this station and mentioned about different issues.
And yes, I mean real "off off" - main switch at the back of the unit is on 0 - means no power. Only thing that comes to my mind is that the circuit is "propelled" by tiny capacitance inside main switch that make power supply start working for milisecond every few minutes. I'll post a short video later on
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It was me, yes, and I fixed it.
The 'turn off' switch only disconnects one of the input lines, I see You're from Poland, usually if the grounding bolt PE of your wall socket is on the top, then L should be on the left, and N should be on the right, unfortunately the IEC cable I was using would flip that, so the turn off switch on Aixun would actually disconnect the N line and not L line. That combined with SWPS would result in such behavior - the screen would momentarily turn on for no reason.
You can fix that in a few ways:
1. Swap the L/N cables coming from the IEC female socket to the SWPS ( this is what I did ), I've used screwdriver to pray the cramped connectors out.
2. Swap the L/N in your wall socket (if it's like I described above then I would not recommend this way)
3. Buy/make IEC cable that would flip L/N lines
About the second problem.. The station sometimes freaking out when there is no tip in it - no luck, probably busted handle, though it's quite rare, so I don't care.
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Using the work that @al777 did on his ESD protection adapter he did for the front of the station, I went and designed a PCB for it.
I'm not an expert at PCB design so if anyone spots anything on this let me know if you think I should make some changes.
The heater cable with +24V on it is routed on the bottom side with a large polygon fill plane to ensure it can handle large amperage. Its my understanding that the cable can carry as much as 8-9 amps? (24V / 200w)
As a starting point, I'm thinking the through holes for the base and handle wires may be too large. Let me know your thoughts.
If anyone else wants this I'm going to be ordering pcbs from JLPCB and happy to share the gerber and eagle files.
I'll also be designing and printing a 3D printed enclosure similar to al777's version. I'll share that once its done as well. It'll all probably go onto a printables upload with both schematic, pcb files, and .stl files.
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so a friend just got his t3a and he opened it up to take a peek inside but only took the back off. he said his front board says v1.4 vs all of the ones i have seen that are 1.0 or 1.2. he doesnt want to pull the front off though (he is not very good at stuff like that and still very new to taking things apart and is afraid he will break the front panel. i asked him to bring it by and let me do it he is thinking about it if he does ill take pics but im wondering what they changed vs the 1.2. i can not promise he will let me but i will continue to ask. in the meantime if anyone gets one with 1.4 can you please post some pics if you are willing to take it apart. i may order one since we use them every day (along with the 420d stations) but i dont know if i will for sure get the new board and i really dont "need" more of them lol i have 12 already and one extra for parts. all of mine are 1.2 i have already checked them all. my t3as should be here soon and i can get some pics of that one. my second p3208 just got here so i can take one of those apart now to check out the insides. with only one the guys didnt want me taking it apart lol but i can sat the 3208 is def a much nicer unit then the 2 series was. if you are considering one of those def go with the 3208 vs the 2 series for the little but of extra money imo.
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so a friend just got his t3a and he opened it up to take a peek inside but only took the back off. he said his front board says v1.4 vs all of the ones i have seen that are 1.0 or 1.2. he doesnt want to pull the front off though (he is not very good at stuff like that and still very new to taking things apart and is afraid he will break the front panel. i asked him to bring it by and let me do it he is thinking about it if he does ill take pics but im wondering what they changed vs the 1.2. i can not promise he will let me but i will continue to ask. in the meantime if anyone gets one with 1.4 can you please post some pics if you are willing to take it apart. i may order one since we use them every day (along with the 420d stations) but i dont know if i will for sure get the new board and i really dont "need" more of them lol i have 12 already and one extra for parts. all of mine are 1.2 i have already checked them all. my t3as should be here soon and i can get some pics of that one. my second p3208 just got here so i can take one of those apart now to check out the insides. with only one the guys didnt want me taking it apart lol but i can sat the 3208 is def a much nicer unit then the 2 series was. if you are considering one of those def go with the 3208 vs the 2 series for the little but of extra money imo.
My version was a 1.2 ordered from easyphonefix a week ago.
Also for anyone wondering I confirmed 936 style handle works. I found one U.S. seller selling the 936 style handles.
Here's the bad news though. The heating element is a 3-pin cartridge style which turns out... is discontinued according to every aliexpress cartridge seller I've contacted. So if you get one of these handles, if the cartridge goes out your out of luck.
The pinout i attached thatsomeone posted a while back is accurate.
What's most odd is, supposedly Pin 2 on the GX12-5 connector is the thermocouple pin. Yet, on this cartridge the wire is jumped from pin 5 and pin 2. Pin 5 is the + heater line, so I don't think this handle actually has temperature sensor / feedback. I'm actually thinking this Aixun handle might be a 2 pin cartridge with the third pin being the tip ground? If so then they are just giving it power based on an estimated temperature curve i guess?
Ultimately that doesnt matter to me, I just want to the handle for heatset inserts, but what a waste if cartridge dies. If anyone has insight on how one might rewire a 4 pin cartridge (which are the only ones that exist now) for the Aixun handle let me know.
I reached out directly to Aixun to see if they have a place cartridges can be made, or at least if they can give a wiring diagram of how another 936 handle can be wired, etc.
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well i was reading on the amazon customer reviews section the other day that you can get some cheap ($3) T12 BC3 tips, and then file the ends down a bit, then turn the remaining diameter to make *some* of the heatsert sizes
it may work for M4 and M3 sizes. However of course something a larger diameter such as M5 or M6 may be beyond the maximum diameter of a standard T12 BC3 tip.
Furthermore it is not clear whether this approach is suitable for C245 style chinese cartridges. Which themselves typically costs more than the cheaper T12 tips.
So IDK, but am inclined to have a go and try sometime. Since it's less problematic than trying to accomodate some 936 handle, which no longer has any other purpose
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well i was reading on the amazon customer reviews section the other day that you can get some cheap ($3) T12 BC3 tips, and then file the ends down a bit, then turn the remaining diameter to make *some* of the heatsert sizes
it may work for M4 and M3 sizes. However of course something a larger diameter such as M5 or M6 may be beyond the maximum diameter of a standard T12 BC3 tip.
Furthermore it is not clear whether this approach is suitable for C245 style chinese cartridges. Which themselves typically costs more than the cheaper T12 tips.
So IDK, but am inclined to have a go and try sometime. Since it's less problematic than trying to accomodate some 936 handle, which no longer has any other purpose
This is an interesting idea. It would be great if some of the cartridge makers actually would make heat staking cartridges for heatset inserts. JBC has a couple but they are for plastic rivets and not for brass inserts.
After reading more about thermocouples I did some experiments on the Aixun 936 3-pin cartridge and surprise! The 3 pin cartridge is something special. It looks like Pin 3 on the heater cartridge (which connects to pin 5 and 2), doubles as a thermocouple and heating element.
When I measured mV on Pin 2 (T) and pin 4 (GND), if I apply heat with a lighter or hair dryer on the heating element, it increases the mV output. As it cools it decreases, which is what a thermocouple does as well.
My guess is the heating element cartridge pinout is: Pin 1 or 2 are GNDS. One being thermocouple GND, and another being heater GND and Pin 3 is the heater pos(+) and thermocouple pos(+).
If that's the case you should easily be able to wire up any other cartridge handle to a 936.
GX12-5 pinout then becomes:
Pin 1: NC
Pin 2: TC Pos (+)
Pin 3: 4K Resistor connected to Pin 4 (GND)
Pin 4: Heater and TC GNDS combined
Pin 5: Heater Pos (+)
[UPDATE]
Just received this diagram for Aixun on their 936 wiring diagram. Looks like its using a two-wire cartridge here? Anyone have info on this specific cartridge type? How would temperature be sensed with this one?
What are others thoughts on this?
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936like i said aixun told me directly they dont plan to support the 936 now so i highly doubt they will bother. i could be wrong but i was told this directly by them.
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936like i said aixun told me directly they dont plan to support the 936 now so i highly doubt they will bother. i could be wrong but i was told this directly by them.
I’m glad I stumbled upon this discussion. I am also in search of the pinout for the Aixun T3A. I bought one with the T245 handle and three tips, but I want to rewire it for my T12 and 907 soldering irons. I have some valuable insights to share about soldering stations that can save you a lot of headaches. Manufacturers are not forthright about the technical details of their stations, but a lot can be gleaned from their manuals.
The terms “thermistor” and “thermocouple” are often used interchangeably even by manufacturers, but are significantly different. Thermistors increase in resistance in response to temperature changes whereas thermocouples generate voltage. The low-cost Fakkos as well as the old Hakkos 907-type soldering handles typically use thermistors, while modern, high-end cartridge-type T12, T245, and some newer 907-type handles use thermocouples. The handle’s compatibility with a given soldering station is determined by its sensor type and wiring. As a rule, all cartridge-type handles use thermocouples, for other types of soldering equipment, it’s difficult to tell without close inspection.
Thermistors are simpler to measure, but their accuracy is typically lower. One circuit supplies 24V to the heater coil for heating, while another supplies a low voltage through the thermistor. The voltage drop read has a near-linear correlation with the temperature. The heater is regulated by cycling the power on and off, or by adjusting the supplied voltage. Thermocouple controllers can be made using basic analog or digital circuits.
Thermocouples provide higher accuracy but require more complex sensing circuitry. Like thermistors, the heater and thermocouple can be in separate wires with the heater supplied with 24V while the thermocouple is read. In a series configuration, however, power is intermittently cut off to the heater, allowing the small voltage generated by the thermocouple to be read. This method protects the sensing circuit from the heater's higher voltages.
If a thermocouple-type handle is connected to a thermistor-based controller, the heating will be minimal as the controller detects little resistance across the thermocouple. Alternatively, if a thermistor-type handle is wired to a thermocouple-based controller, the handle will heat up fast to a cherry red in just less than a minute. This is because the controller detects little to no current from the thermistor. Unfortunately, the author of this article was unaware of this important detail:
https://www.instructables.com/Soldering-to-Desoldering-Station-Hack/ (https://www.instructables.com/Soldering-to-Desoldering-Station-Hack/)
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Thermocouple-type heating elements can have 4 or 2 wires. Occasionally, there's a also separate grounding wire for the tip, but for the sake of simplicity it's ignored, since its wired to either the common or to the chassis. The first has two separate circuits with two wires for the heater (+-) and two for the thermocouple (+-). The latter uses a single wire for both the heater and the thermocouple and are wired in series. You can convert a 4 wire heating element by wiring the heater in series with the thermocouple at either the heating element or at the handle, although it's better to do it closer to the thermocouple. Some 2 wire heating elements have wires that can be untwisted into 4 wires.
Technically, you can use any thermocouple-type 907 handle or heating element on the vast majority of two wire stations (within wattage specs),but not always the other way around. This because some 4 wire stations supply current to the heater and thermocouple simultaneously. This can only be done if they are separate circuits to avoid damaging the sensing circuit due to the heater's higher current. Two wire stations alternate between supplying current to the heater and thermocouple over the same wire.
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Thermocouple-type heating elements can have 4 or 2 wires. Occasionally, there's a also separate grounding wire for the tip, but for the sake of simplicity it's ignored, since its wired to either the common or to the chassis. The first has two separate circuits with two wires for the heater (+-) and two for the thermocouple (+-). The latter uses a single wire for both the heater and the thermocouple and are wired in series. You can convert a 4 wire heating element by wiring the heater in series with the thermocouple at either the heating element or at the handle, although it's better to do it closer to the thermocouple. Some 2 wire heating elements have wires that can be untwisted into 4 wires.
Technically, you can use any thermocouple-type 907 handle or heating element on the vast majority of two wire stations (within wattage specs),but not always the other way around. This because some 4 wire stations supply current to the heater and thermocouple simultaneously. This can only be done if they are separate circuits to avoid damaging the sensing circuit due to the heater's higher current. Two wire stations alternate between supplying current to the heater and thermocouple over the same wire.
From what you are saying, and the diagram sent to me by Aixun, it seems the T3A is a two wire station then.
Interesting thing noted is I found in the comments section of a youtube video by SegaHolic found this same pinout diagram Aixun sent me on this aliexpress listing for a 245, T12, 936 solder station ocontroller: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802194508944.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802194508944.html)
He apparently wired up his own using a two heater cartridge per the pinout diagram I posted earlier and it worked but ran 150C above stated value. Not sure why that would be, maybe its a resistance difference or wattage mismatch?
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The Aixun t3a definitely supports 2 wire and 4 wire heaters where it alternates between heating and sensing. It might also support 4 wire heaters where heating and sensing occur simultaneously on separate wires, but the controller would need to operate in a different mode. Looking at the wire diagrams, it looks like it has 4 wires wired in series to a 2 wire heaters. My Aoyue has a 4 wire thermocouple heater, but I have never tested it to see if it alternates.
You should be able to wire either a 4 or 2 wire THERMOCOUPLE heater without issue. Just make sure the polarity is correct. If you're looking for a 907 thermocouple heater and handle, look for the Aoyue 968a+ heating element. They're 4 wire and under $10. Be careful, however, do not make the mistake of getting a thermistor based heater. Your iron will glow bright red.
Can you forward me the video of the guy who wired his own handle to the Aixun? I'm curious about the high temperatures.I'll share what might be the issue.
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The info was in a comment thread. Posted screenshot below of it.
The video is just a random video of the user testing the T3A station with only background music.
https://youtu.be/KYkHOsyAPLU (https://youtu.be/KYkHOsyAPLU)
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Hey all,
Looking to add dreamcat4 and others mod of adding a GX 12-5 connector in place of the 24VDC jack, then modding the stand to have two GX12-5 connectors (one to rear base connector, and one for handle).
Tips on removing front glass?
I understand to heat the front glass glue to 180C using a hot air station, but how did others go about this? Did you use any specific tools such as a suction cup or something else?
I've seen videos of people chipping the corners of the glass when using a pry tool and I want to avoid that at all costs.
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well i did not chip my glass, even while prrying with a lot of force. but to be clear if that is a concern then start off with plastic pry tool. of which there are a few types. then thin stainless. then thick stainless
but you do not want to do this. the problem with excessive force is not the risk of chipping. the problem is that the glue is over the whole area of the face which isnt cut away. and that is stuck onto a very thin soft aluminium chassis piece. that is recessese just behind the glass. so excessive prying the glass will deform and bend that too-weak alu carrrier elemnt.
now that isnt actually the problem, because if the alu gets mishapen you can of course just straighten it back out afterwards. no what the problem i found was with the 4 hidden tiny m2.5 screws that are actually holding this alu carrier inner face plate. the more you pry, the more you tug towards you. if the force is too much then you will actually rip out those tiny m2.5 screw threads from the soft and wafer thin aluminium. these are located near the 4 corners of the face plate
so the solution of course is not to start prying too soon. and to use more temperature and a longer heating time than you think would be needed. make certain that all of that too strong adhesive is really thoroughly melted before begin prying. and do not worry about any plastic component there. because there is not any in direct contact.
you might want to select thin stainless steel as the pry tool here. and to start the operation by prying over the whole right hand edge. because that is where most of the glue is. so where it will be most difficult if the glue has not given out yet.
if you make an attempt it does not shift then you need to continue heating for longer and/or go a bit hotter. until that super strong (why?) glue is really really melted. and most of all dont loose your patience and end up applying an excessive force too soon. because that will incur those stated damage. and the carrier alu is thinnest and weakest around the lcd display edge, you will see. but it has a much thinner line of glue there. so that is nothing that isnt going to be short work at the end with a wide pry tool from those nearby edges
no the problem and the main area to be heating with the gun is where those potentiometer and buttons are located over to the right. oh... i suppose the 2 smallest buttons you cannot remove. they are plastic... so you know. try keep a bit away from them with direct hot air. but you still need to be hitting that whole right side with the hot air.
the glass itself felt quite tough however. it can bend a fair bit too heck a lot. and so it seems to be like the kind of a glass they use on smartphones. if you have ever played with that stuff. it is relatively strong stuff. (within its limits of course, so dont be too reckless, and it should be fine)
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… so the solution of course is not to start prying too soon. and to use more temperature and a longer heating time than you think would be needed. make certain that all of that too strong adhesive is really thoroughly melted before begin prying. and do not worry about any plastic component there. because there is not any in direct contact.
This is so helpful Dreamcat. Do you remember what temperatures in genera you used for heating?
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No. but most adhesives let go in the 60-100c range. for a hot air setting you have to be significantly higher than the target temp. due to the poor thermal transfer of air... so therefore 180 sounds about right. it isn't so exact science
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180 °C is too much and you risk killing your display like me :/
Use 100-120 °C and do not apply too much heat on the center, where the display is.
To remove the display I used a combination of a suction cup and one of these ultra-thin metal spudger pry tools. Using a thin plastic spudger might be more safe.
I completely removed the thick old glue, cleaned the glass with IPA and reglued only with a few tiny (!) spots of T7000 glue on the edges. This makes it waaaaaaaay easier to remove the glass again later.
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this is one of those counter intuitive things whereby a lower temperature can be worse, if it requires you to heat soak the entire target object at an 'unsafe' temperature for a longer time. but what constitutes as unsafe for that lcd is not so easy to answer question. perhaps low given those plastics used on it.
anyhow as per reflow profiles doctrine, you can do a prolonged warming at a much lower 'safe zone' heat soaking temp. that is below the tolerance threshold of the lcd. which definately will be very helpful to weaken that adhesive
then after that if it still does not budge. then rather tan pry too hard, and risk those physical damage. then a briefer ramp up period for hitting the right hand side quickly at a higher temp. but only briefly, and in a controlled fashion at which point you can make a pry attempt. and in a time window before that final phase heating has had time to propagate and soak over to the lcd on the left hand side. personally i never encountered such lcd heating issue because my own heating was not sufficient... hence the other issue was encountered.
if you haven't blasted that section enough your pry attempt failed. so the decision is either to keep heating (and risk damaging the lcd). or to abandon the attempt (because it was not sufficient). and then wait for the whole thing to cool off and rest. before trying again as another seperate attempt
it all sounds more challenging than it actually is... i would put the skill level at low-medium since you have already been informed these things. the layout and everything behind it. wheras i did not know any such stuff... mine still works though. despite then 1-2 stripped screws. it wasn't so bad the effect of those specific damages in the end
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Hello, my T3A is very noisy while heating. Is there any way to fix this? Recapping, or other changes will help?
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Looks like the Aixun T3AS are starting to appear on AliEx. Who is getting one?
Is the T3AS a big improvement from the T3A?
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So I noticed Handskit is making a T12 tweezer iron - of course, with the warning that most T12 stations can't supply the 120W it normally demands.
Aside from the less-than-perfect temperature regulation of having the thermocouples in parallel, any reason why it wouldn't work with the T3A? Only thing that comes to mind would be to rewire the plug to ID as a T12 handle.
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Hey everyone,
Finished up the T3A ESDprotector PCB and 3d printed case.
Here's a quick preview of it. Will be organizing better images and will upload the files to a github repo and a printables.com page including pcb gerber files for anyone who wants to have this same setup made.
Attached to station:
[attach=1]
Closeup of Box:
[attach=2]
Lid Removed:
[attach=3]
Example of paint-filling the case:
[attach=4]
CAD of 3D case models:
[Attach=5]
[Attatch=6]
Print Layout
[Attach=7]
For my purposes I'm adding a second GX12-5 cable port to the back of my T3A unit in place of the old 24V DC barrel jack so this ESD protector box can be run from behind the station.
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Just added to Printables for anyone interested:
https://www.printables.com/model/497695-aixun-t3a-front-esd-protector-filter (https://www.printables.com/model/497695-aixun-t3a-front-esd-protector-filter)
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Soldering tweezers for the T3A!
Now I've seen some people make T12-based soldering tweezers, with the compromise that their temp sensors will average out in parallel so electrically it's mainly a matter of running them in parallel with a station that has the power to run them - the T3A certainly doesn't lack for that!
Starting with Handskit's "T12 Soldering Station Tweezers" that they offer for their own soldering stations:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005237804789.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005237804789.html)
These are basically a set of T12 sockets with a tweezer mechanism, and sold with a warning that lower-power stations can burn out trying to feed it.
The cartridges are shorter than a standard T12, which is nice compared to making my own handle that would have to make up for the extra length of standard tips.
Referring to I Broke It Again's post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg3811343/#msg3811343 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg3811343/#msg3811343)) as well as the newer T12 iron I have on hand I rewired the Handskit to ID to the station that it's a T12 iron, and it works a treat
Note: Newer T12 handles don't bother with the mercury switch, and the Handskit doesn't even bother with a wire to pin1 anyways, so leave it out.
Temperature accuracy seems okay going by my inexpensive thermocouple unit
It ID's as a T12 as per the screen, and standby functionality works as expected.
So if you have a T3A and would like some at least functional thermotweezers, for the low cost of $24 CAD and a 10K resistor
Gotta say that it's the quickest time I've ever had for removing an SMD ceramic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyWS6EKt_V4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyWS6EKt_V4)
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well i was reading on the amazon customer reviews section the other day that you can get some cheap ($3) T12 BC3 tips, and then file the ends down a bit, then turn the remaining diameter to make *some* of the heatsert sizes
it may work for M4 and M3 sizes. However of course something a larger diameter such as M5 or M6 may be beyond the maximum diameter of a standard T12 BC3 tip.
Furthermore it is not clear whether this approach is suitable for C245 style chinese cartridges. Which themselves typically costs more than the cheaper T12 tips.
So IDK, but am inclined to have a go and try sometime. Since it's less problematic than trying to accomodate some 936 handle, which no longer has any other purpose
I looked everywhere to find a set of insert tips that were compatible with the C245 that weren't JBC prices and finally decided to take the McGeyver approach and modified a set kinda like the one here: https://www.amazon.com/ShineNow-Heat-set-Soldering-Install-Inserts/dp/B09VL41T7K/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2JICTPRZJPQ39&keywords=936+heat+set+insert+tips&qid=1688284011&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&sprefix=936+heat+set+insert+tips%2Caps%2C125&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/ShineNow-Heat-set-Soldering-Install-Inserts/dp/B09VL41T7K/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2JICTPRZJPQ39&keywords=936+heat+set+insert+tips&qid=1688284011&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&sprefix=936+heat+set+insert+tips%2Caps%2C125&sr=8-4)
I bored out the adapter to be a tight friction fit on one of my c249 iron tips, making sure it wasn't too tight where it would get stuck and it works great. Instead of the typical 3 seconds it takes to heat up a c249 tip, it takes about 6 seconds. I considered sacrificing one of the c249 tips to see if I could run it through a die and thread the outside but the friction fit was good enough for me.
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which c245 tip did you use? any pics?
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Hi, hope this is the right place to ask this, been looking for a new budget soldering station and the T3A & T3B seem to have a bit of a cult following and now there is a "S" version of both models that is cheaper, but I'm having a hard time finding out why its cheaper? I see it has a different holder that would knock the cost down a little but it also seems to be lacking the detection for when the iron is stowed in the holder yet they still advertise it as having standby?
Is anyone able to clarify the difference for me to save me having buyer's remorse for not going with the T3A :scared:
In answer to my own question, got a reply from AiXun:
Hi,
Thank you for your inquiry.
The iron stands of T3AS and T3A are different. T3AS has a simpler iron stand, so the cost is lower.
Except for the iron stand, other functions are the same.
Any other questions please let me know.
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the s models do use the newer style psu also not that they are that much different but its the newer black style. but yeah otherwise they are they same thing.
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Thanks, according to AiXun the S models are also not compatible with the big boy stands you get with the T3A and T3B.
So guess I'm getting a T3A.
Anywhere better then Ali to grab one (I'm in the UK)
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Sorry if this has already been covered (I didn't read all 829 posts in this thread, just scanned the 34 pages)....
What/how much difference will the T3A produce when using the official JBC T245-A handle vs the the AiXun 245 handle (assuming the base T3A and official JBC tips are used)?
Any reason to consider some other models or configurations?
Thanks
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Hello, is there any alternative for GX12-5 connector which is compatible with Aixun T3A? I am feeling that GX12 is not making good job. :(
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I am feeling that GX12 is not making good job. :(
well... in what way(s) specifically? ...there is GX12-6 and GX12-7 for an extra 1-2 pins?
I am not sure you would think the original JBC plastic hirose connector is any better...
So what leaves then? For such multi-pin and higher current carrying capabilities?
Mini-XLR is up to 4 pin? (or maybe 5-pin max but you would be hard pressed to find).
What else can be? Like a speakon? ...would be physically much larger?
Main thing i don't like is having to screw on the retaining ring. But other than that... seems "good enough"... isn't it?
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It is feeling loose, also buzzing badly.
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ah yes. now remember. and indeed is legitimate concern. because when tightening or plugging / unplugging. the coming loose.
perhaps this aspect can be better on higher quality (or branded) versions of these gh12. however what we get are these flooded on china / aliexpress. and they do indeed loosen themselves. perhaps there is 2 slightly different sourced version maybe? idk, and perhaps the both are. or one is better than the other. but neither is so strongly branded, the manufactuing origin? so perhaps not so easy to identify from the other... but besides maybe both type are in fact bad for this way. i did not check.
but i agree, it quite seems legitimate criticism. now i remember... because the panel mount. there is no locating pin or keyway. to stop rotating around. so this action of screwing on the threaded collar. then the whole things rotates around. and it loosens entirely from the panel.
so if a locking / locating pin (or a keyway slot) is missing. then can we mod ourselves, and to add one somehow? i suppose there might be several different solutions. or threadlocker etc... maybe the chinese just resorts to hot glue in the factory. or other types of glue stuff like from the 'kafuter'.
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Any idea how to find better connectors? I purchased more expensive gx12-5 connectors with gold plated pins, but still waiting for package.
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well then please to wait, then come back when they arrive to tell us how is it... maybe also with store link where to buy from?
other place: digikey / farnell / mouser / (other suppliers on octopart). (so parametric search first on digikey. then to find candidate mfr + part no.)... same as any other. sorry i don't have any specific known part to recommend. but those you ordered already. please to tell us later? many thanks
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I will leave feedback. Actually i wasted hours searching on mouser and no results with finding alternative.
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You're not going to find GX12 connectors in the US. Here is a response to someone on digikey's forums looking for them.
This style of connector has not been popular in the USA for over 40 years. I know of no large USA electronics parts suppliers who currently sell them and have not seen one in use on any equipment sold in the USA this century.
So you’ll need to order from suppliers in Chine via Amazon, eBay, Alibaba, etc.
I would try looking into something like these Tini-QG Mini XLR connectors from Switchcraft. https://www.switchcraft.com/tini-qg-mini-xlr-5-pin-female-cable-mount-no-flex-relief-large-cable-opening-silver-pins-nickel/ta5flx/ (https://www.switchcraft.com/tini-qg-mini-xlr-5-pin-female-cable-mount-no-flex-relief-large-cable-opening-silver-pins-nickel/ta5flx/)
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What about Lemo style push connectors? They are insanely high quality. No idea if they offer ones with enough pin connectors or sizing that will work though.
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What about Lemo push connectors? They are very high quality. Not sure if they offer correct size or #of contacts needed.
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What about Lemo push connectors? They are very high quality. Not sure if they offer correct size or #of contacts needed.
I saw those. They look amazingly high quality, perhaps a bit too high quality. A male + Female LEMO would cost you over half the price of the soldering station based on digikey prices.
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There are knockoff versions as well of them.
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ok its like this:
* mini xlr is indeed fantastic looking connector... but where are the specs for it? current / voltage etc?
* mini xlr maxes out at 5 pins. and might be a bit harder to source reliably
i do recommend investigating mini xlr... it would just probably make more sense for other things than these aixun? because we have some limits on the space. it might be easiey just to take a pin punch and try to hammer some irregularity into the barrel. or drill a tiny hole (sideways) and drive a little steel pin into it. to then be like a keyway that fixes the rotational position on the panel mount. and prevents the gx12-5 from ever being able to rotate and come loose.
in fact isn't it that there are already 2 parallel flats on the threaded barrel section of these gx12-5 ? so wouldn't that mean the circular hole that was drilled into chassis is actualy too big? idk. would have to look at it again. but just to say that might have been the intention (for the design of these connector). for to stop them rotating.
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Has anyone had any success in finding good quality c245 clone tips for the T3A? I found some made by OSS on ebay but i try and avoid ebay for stuff like this. I'm surprised there are so few clone tips out there that are c245.
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Has anyone had any success in finding good quality c245 clone tips for the T3A? I found some made by OSS on ebay but i try and avoid ebay for stuff like this. I'm surprised there are so few clone tips out there that are c245.
There are many clones, none seem to be on par with the original JBC products. The main problem is: outside is fine - but inside there are air gaps between the heater core and the tip itself. It's a result of cheaper manufacturing processes. You can clearly see the difference - stick the tip of the clone into a wet sponge - and look for the power delivery bar on the base, it's nowhere near the maximum. Very different picture with the originals - heat is conducted rather rapidly, water boils fast, power delivery is high. Air gap in the clones keeps the core and thermocouple hot while the tip is much cooler.
I only bought clones to get a taste of different tip shapes, once I settled on what I want - the real ones were ordered. Never used clones after that.
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Hi guys,
did anyone upgrade firmware to v1.34 and is experiencing any issues?
I have and now there are some temperature issues - let's say I set the temperature to 350C. After I put the iron to standby caddy it starts cooling down from 380C...
When ST-Link V2 programmer arrives I will downgrade the firmware to v1.26 (got clean firmware dump from elektroda.pl) and then update it back to v1.33 with Aixun software.
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I updated mine yesterday ang got the same.
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I updated mine yesterday ang got the same.
I have just realised it's possible to downgrade the firmware via the Aixun software, so I went back to v1.33 and everything seems ok now temperature wise.
The temperature displayed is far more realistic - while heating to 350C it goes to 354C and then stabilizes at 350C, while with v1.34 it went exactly to 350C and stayed there...which I find a bit unrealistic considering how the heating elements work in real life.
Which firmware version do you find the most reliable?
Does the "Screen rest" function work for you?
Edit(24.07.2023): I did temperature calibration today with my trusted Omega K type temperature probe and the temperatures are very accurate with firmware v1.33 - when unit is set to 350C I get steady 347C on the temperature probe, without any fluctuations whatsoever. With v1.34 the temperatures were jumping up and down like crazy.
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well then please to wait, then come back when they arrive to tell us how is it... maybe also with store link where to buy from?
other place: digikey / farnell / mouser / (other suppliers on octopart). (so parametric search first on digikey. then to find candidate mfr + part no.)... same as any other. sorry i don't have any specific known part to recommend. but those you ordered already. please to tell us later? many thanks
I just received connectors. They are a bit bigger, very good quality at first look. Also no wobble when plugged as original. I will try to install them next week.
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Link?
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Link?
I bought this one: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004366923410.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.194.2b9a1c24W23gti&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol. Very good. Buzzing form this connector gone. But still buzzing in handle and also power supply is buzzing. Any tips to get rid of this noise?
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There seems to be an "AiXun Official Store" on AliExpress now. Is that new? I never saw it before. Has anyone used it?
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Anyone observed how the T3A normally behaves with a possibly bad tip?
Ordered a handful of Ali and JBC but haven't received the genuine ones yet.
Clone tip causes the unit to power cycle on loop when removing it from the stand. Heater measures 1.8ohm so may be out of spec.
Unit appears to work fine with supplied tips, but its new to me and if it could be faulty I would need to act fast.
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There seems to be an "AiXun Official Store" on AliExpress now. Is that new? I never saw it before. Has anyone used it?
I didn't see it when I was searching. Ordered from easy100fix store because it has the most previous orders and good for aliexpress store rating.
If anyone is wondering the unit came with 2 foam pads for the handle.
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Hey guys, I am looking for a good soldering iron. After reading much discussions it seems that t3a had some issues at start and no esd or current protection if mosfet dies. I’m looking into t3a/s, T420/D and Sequre S99 any advice would be recommended.
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Of the ones you quoted, I still myself firmly belive (*as owner of an original t3a, that has been modded a fair bit). That it's still the best of those you shortlisted.
OFC there may be other irons come out in future, and some might be a bit more suited for certain mobile applications. But for a regular general purpose bench iron, that can also do micro soldering + both higher power soldering. It's just all round the best you can get. And that includes whatever JBC wants to sell you these days. I absolutely stand by it with my own money. Actually I haven't purchased the ESRA, JBC or Metcals myself. Or tried them. But just going by what I've seen (in detail online). T3a still is my preferred iron.
it seems that t3a had some issues at start and no esd or current protection if mosfet dies
Thing is they aren't actually much big issues at all. In terms of the ESD AFAICT it's not to do with the mosfet? Only regarding the stand detect function. Which is that extra 4mm banana jack wire you plug in seperately into the cradle. To let it know when you've replaced the handle into the cradle (to send into idle mode / sleep mode).
Thing is if that GPIO dies, you can replace the MCU and reflash the firmware. Or alternatively the simplest mod for putting a TVS diode onto the main pcb... it ain't that hard! And so long as you have another iron available to do that mod with. Then it's sufficiently protected.
You can take mods further, but at a minimum i would just say you only really need to add the TVS diode (and thats it, no cap or other passives needed, although it doesnt hurt, it's just not technically actually required). And you will be sufficiently ESD protected.
The other matter of pre-order at least 1x spare MCU from aliexpress is also another form of backup protection. In case either that (now protected with the mod) GPIO line dies. Or anything else (other GPIOs) dies. Then you can just replace the $3 mcu on the $150 station and it should all be fine after a reflash. Which... probably will never happen after TVS mod.
Oh and replacing the capsin the PSU - it's also recommended for maximum lifetime of the station. But not any sort of a hard requirement. That would run you about $5-$7 maybe, and could be ordered at the same time as ordering the TVS diode from digikey / similar. But only mentioned since it's just convenient matter and simple to do when you already have to open up the station anyhow to do the TVS mode. To then do it at same time.
Again - these mods are optional. If you are lazy or want to defer those to some inteterminate later date. Then it's entirely your own choice(s). They just are some common sense to know about before buying it is all. And i'm sure you can go out and purchase many other products in 2023 which have far worse manufacturing defects (from factors)... like well, basically any car(s) for example.
So all in all, not a reason not to buy. Rather a plus. To know how to properly service this unit. From community contributed information / guidelines. Couldn't be happier about it really.
Only 1 thing I would want to see improved on T3a is to have some "manual" push button mechanism added into the firmware. As an actual alternative to setting down in the cradle. That you could use either / or to put into sleep mode.
Still on the v1.26 firmware. So not sure if they ever added that later on. However I suppose.... another mod could add a dedicated physical switch? I might actually be motivated to do that. Having not twigged on to that (until just now)...
But you know... there are other irons can come out. Either recently or in future. That also uses these same official C245 cartridges. (or the other C210 / whatever ones).
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Does T420 require any of those mods? I looked over that forum but there isn’t much information on there. With T3A I would want to move the cable to back and make it all one cord and with all parts needed for all of that and time it would prob be better to get T420 for 200$. Also I’m not that familiar on how to do those mods unless there are guides posted somewhere.
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v1.3
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v1.3
Hmm...
* D7 has 'moved' (or mod fix is integrated, might be same IDK).
* D8 - new (added)
But I don't see any TVS diode added for the GPIO protection on the stand detect input line? (unless that is the D8, not so sure).
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better picture.
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you know, the other fella here on this thread cooked up a schematic for the previous version already. so that might be helpful to highlight any minor differences.
the reason i say that: is because black pcb isn't very photogenic. when it comes to picking out the individual traces. so to buzz out with a multimeter those couple of spots.
and then scribble onto the pre-existing schematic. but as far as i remember... the gpio input line for the tip handle detection. it just goes horizontalls straight across. and no place near to those changed d8 area (presumably is that area is for thermocouple amplifier input, the op-amp?).
anyhow either way ---> 0 changes for the (1 line of) esd input protection. those traces path all remains exactly the same.
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Hi to all owners of AiXun T3A.
I buy last year AiXun T3A and would like to recap PSU on this nice soldering iron. Here is list that i add in mouser so if you could check if this is OK capacitors to order and replace on PSU because i want to be on safe side (now is some green looking capacitors on PSU that is probably 2000 hours rated and i want to change it to 10 000 hours rated capacitors with Low ESR and high ripple current as this is SMPS and fast high current are here generated so capacitors are on stress when iron shows 100% power when going from ambient temperature to 350C in 3 seconds, so capacitors are on big stress here and i want to put some quality caps here).
Here is list:
https://hr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/232-400BXW82MEFR18X2
https://hr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/667-EEU-FS1V102LB
https://hr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/232-35ZLH470MEFC10X1
https://hr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/232-50YXM10MEFR5X11
Too bad that rubycon does not have 1000uF/35V 10 000hours in 10mm diameter and 5mm spacing so i choose Panasonic that is also great cap.
I read that it is recommended to add TVS diode for ESD protection, could i get link to part number in mouser so that i can order that too when ordering new caps?
As i noted soldering station works just fine, no problems and is updated to lastest firmware, i just want to take precautions about caps recapping and ESD protection as i love this station so much that makes works a lot easy.
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v1.3
Hmm...
* D7 has 'moved' (or mod fix is integrated, might be same IDK).
* D8 - new (added)
But I don't see any TVS diode added for the GPIO protection on the stand detect input line? (unless that is the D8, not so sure).
No, D8 is not new. It was there in v1.2 already
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Just bought the T3A new version from AliExpress. Two glaring issues: the station and the handle buzz loudly as it pwms the the 24V into the tip, and also the front of the handle gets warm after just a few minutes of being on. The buzzing sound is just unbearable and gets on my nerves. Given how difficult it is to disassemble the front panel, and now with this new edition, removing the power supply board is a pain too, I would just say stay away from this soldering station.
It's probably a loose connection somewhere, but is it worth my time to debug? I have to pry open the front panel and risk breaking it, and on top of that, pry loose the power devices under the PCB that are siliconed down to the case. And that just to take a second look on a faulty brand new product? And how do I even go about gluing the supply board back to the case? The old gunk probably has to be removed first which is just a pain in the ass. The old design with glued front panel already wasn't DIY friendly, but now that the power supply is also glued down, they REALLY don't want you to take it apart.
My alternative right now is just to buy the genuine handle and the tip, a toroidal transformer, a case, and just DIY the control circuit (similar to Marco Reps project on youtube). I guess it would be a good learning experience about PID control at least, and I'm almost guaranteed good performance.
My two cents: buy this soldering station at your own peril. You will certainly NOT get anywhere near JBC level of reliability. I have a dispute open for return.
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we use these in a very busy shop. 12 of them have been setup for over a year or thereabouts now (you can read back through the thread i think it was this thread) they get used every day and only had an issue with one and that was simply a bad cap. with some heat if you have ever opened the screen to a cell phone you should be fine opening these up. they really are not that hard to open, but i would def make them send out a replacement i have a total of 18 of the t3a (different versions) and only had that one cap issue and had buzzing from one handle. they sent me out a replacement unit (complete unit though they wanted me to replace all the parts so they sent out new handle, wires, charging pcb'd etc) and i handled it directly through aliexpress so they had me send it to them directly instead of the seller in china. i also have the equal amount of t3b's and 10 of the 420d's in use (3 of those are my personal 420d units and 2-3 of each of the a and b's are mine also. they rest belong to the shop and get used all the time every day. not at all saying you cant have an issue but just because a VERY small number of people had an issue does not mean everyone will
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i would simply say send new version back, get old version.
however perhaps subsequent hardware updates on old (original) version means i cannot tell you how it is now. for that you need to figure out for yourself.
for front panel removal steps (for any potential future replacement original version) then i recommend to read our earlier tips in this thread. however it's some time ago where we explained the best techniques to remove front panel.
but if you have decided completely different model then that does not matter.
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Just bought the T3A new version from AliExpress. Two glaring issues: the station and the handle buzz loudly as it pwms the the 24V into the tip, and also the front of the handle gets warm after just a few minutes of being on. The buzzing sound is just unbearable and gets on my nerves. Given how difficult it is to disassemble the front panel, and now with this new edition, removing the power supply board is a pain too, I would just say stay away from this soldering station.
It's probably a loose connection somewhere, but is it worth my time to debug? I have to pry open the front panel and risk breaking it, and on top of that, pry loose the power devices under the PCB that are siliconed down to the case. And that just to take a second look on a faulty brand new product? And how do I even go about gluing the supply board back to the case? The old gunk probably has to be removed first which is just a pain in the ass. The old design with glued front panel already wasn't DIY friendly, but now that the power supply is also glued down, they REALLY don't want you to take it apart.
My alternative right now is just to buy the genuine handle and the tip, a toroidal transformer, a case, and just DIY the control circuit (similar to Marco Reps project on youtube). I guess it would be a good learning experience about PID control at least, and I'm almost guaranteed good performance.
My two cents: buy this soldering station at your own peril. You will certainly NOT get anywhere near JBC level of reliability. I have a dispute open for return.
IMO you're a bit exaggerating here ;) The front panel is not that hard to remove, really not. The silicone under the PCB *could* be some thermal paste/glue as well, so not sure if it's only bc they don't want you to tear it apart. Last but not least: what did you expect from a chinese product? \o/
Also, an older version T3A could be faulty as well, just like a original JBC station could be.
Regarding the buzzing issue: some people reported that problem, others don't have that issue. Seems to happen on a case by case basis
My alternative right now is just to buy the genuine handle and the tip, a toroidal transformer, a case, and just DIY the control circuit (similar to Marco Reps project on youtube). I guess it would be a good learning experience about PID control at least, and I'm almost guaranteed good performance.
Well, have fun with even more (unexpected) issues ;)
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IMO you're a bit exaggerating here ;) The front panel is not that hard to remove, really not. The silicone under the PCB *could* be some thermal paste/glue as well, so not sure if it's only bc they don't want you to tear it apart. Last but not least: what did you expect from a chinese product? \o/
Right now I'm negotiating with the seller about return cost. But really, if it's not that hard to get the font panel off, I would seriously appreciate someone point me to where in this massive thread I should look for ideas to pry it off. I do have access to a hot air station, so I assume I just heat it to what, 100C or something? For 10 minutes? And use a suction cup or prying plastic? And hope I don't crack the flimsy screen glued to the front panel? It is frustrating to even think about it.
If I can get the front panel off, maybe there is some hope of re-doing the connection between the 24 supply and the control board, and also maybe while it's off, remove the barrel connector for the handle and solder it directly down to the PCB to avoid connector issues. I can't stress enough how annoying it is to have to do that on a new product. Can we not expect better from the great people of China?
Regarding the buzzing issue: some people reported that problem, others don't have that issue. Seems to happen on a case by case basis
What has been the proposed solution?
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front panel removal was discussed here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4826336/?topicseen#msg4826336 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4826336/?topicseen#msg4826336)
however i do think you should instead simply return this unit, and keep arguing the return postage fees, not good enough.
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Regarding the buzzing issue: some people reported that problem, others don't have that issue. Seems to happen on a case by case basis
What has been the proposed solution?
Unfortunately, there was none, yet bc nobody from the thread investigated further
Right now I'm negotiating with the seller about return cost. But really, if it's not that hard to get the font panel off, I would seriously appreciate someone point me to where in this massive thread I should look for ideas to pry it off. I do have access to a hot air station, so I assume I just heat it to what, 100C or something? For 10 minutes? And use a suction cup or prying plastic? And hope I don't crack the flimsy screen glued to the front panel? It is frustrating to even think about it.
Yeah, something like that. IIRC I did 100C or 120C for 30-60 sec or so. Don't center the hot air on the display for too long! When the glue got soft you can easily remove the panel with a suction cup or prying plastic. The glass is about 1 - 1.5mm roughly, not too thin.
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yeah, it's important to understand the front cover is in fact toughened smartphone glass (rather than plastic). so it can takes the heat. and so can the thin (so easier to defore / the weakest link) folded metal aluminium subframe cover behind the glass (to which the glass is so strongly glued to). and that the most heat sensitive component behind is that lcd screen (perhaps as low as only 60c but dont quote me). anyhow the point is with a low enough longer preheat temperature soak* (to be low enough not to risk the lcd screen - so maybe? in the approximate range of 100-150c then? due to the hot air temp needing to be significantly higher than the desired target temp being transferred onto target objects). then rapidly with a high enough / powerful enough thermal shock before that spike has long enough time to kill the lcd. then you can melt the glue (and especially concentrating nearly all of the spike on right hand side of panel, where buttons, connector and most of the troublesome glue is actually thickest area to tackle)...
then peeling with suckion cups towards you from right hand side first then to left. and any rim / edge of colder (more hard / stuck) glue remaining around lcd will come aways last, finally, since you started the peeling action from the right, where most of the glue actually is. then meaning there is little remaining resistance.
you will still have to hit the lcd side a bit too. but you have to be more conservative over there, only move the hot air nozzle around the edges / rim on the lcd side... where the thin edge of glue actual is.
this will maximimize the safety of the operation.
if you hit the spike for too short a time, or with too low soak preheat temperature. then the operation might fail 1st time (if it was too conservative with the heating). then you might wait a delay to cool down a bit before trying a 2nd time. to reduce risks to the lower temp lcd. but in my own attempt i didn't actually know it was the case, and just was overly aggressive pulling at the glass. and both the glass and lcd remained completely fine and intact.
i did not even use any suction cup(s) whatsoever either! because instead (mistaking the cover for plastic one) i was too conservative with the heating. and ended up running a bunch of thin metal pry tools successively around the edges. and going from the wrong lcd side too. by all accounts i should have sustained more damages, but i just ended up messing up the weeky alu subframe, and ripping out 1 of those tiny internal screws (the must be m2.5 laptop screws).
anyhow that's everything about removing the front glass. it isn't actually so bad as all that. those are just the expected ways to try to minimize any possible damages. i have seen much worse than this... like any smartphones basically. this is easier than most smartphones. and people crack into those every days now.
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Thank you for this detailed explanation. Given how expensive it is to ship this back to China, the seller just agreed to send me either a replacement "motherboard", or a new unit if they can. So it might be the case that I have to crack it open regardless.
I'm just curious, do you guys have any tips to glue it back after you are done? I assume you don't want to use such strong glue again. Maybe paper glue stick?
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It could be that there is still some residual adhesive left stuck on the internal surfaces. Such that it's not essential. However the product that another person here suggested (and in fact used) was the black T7000 smartphone adhesive. But failing that there are other similar smartphone adhesives (under names other than T7000). But failing that you can use other types of black gasket sealant like the Kafuter K-586. Which is labeled as 'oxime' or 'neutral cure' on the label (so therefore does not emit ammonia during the curing process, which can damage / corrode).
[edit]
or come to think of it... just even cutting some little thin strips of double sided tape should also work too. if doing that maybe then there can be some little gap not fully sealed. perhaps as a route to let in dust particle. but not really such insurmountable problem to overcome. with some extra due care / dilligence.
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I have just put 4 tiny dots of T-7000 glue on the four edges - sticks well for months already
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It’s interesting to point out what the seller wrote to me after realizing my station buzzes. I’m attaching the video I sent to the seller for those who haven’t experienced this buzzing problem
https://youtu.be/Imbg9Skw5vQ
He wrote:
机器里面的一个小元器件坏了，为了确保万无一失，我们直接安排补发一个新的主板给你更换
This translates to:
A small component in the machine is broken. In order to ensure nothing goes wrong, we will directly arrange to issue a new motherboard for you to replace
Suggesting that he’s aware there is a “broken” component on the control board. Maybe it’s worth investigating what this mysterious small component is and why it would cause buzzing in the handle and the station. At least this might help future owners of the Aixun product who will inevitably suffer from this same issue.
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it sounds pretty innocent comment imho... (most likely either a capaciitor or resistor i would expect)
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it sounds pretty innocent comment imho... (most likely either a capaciitor or resistor i would expect)
Well, looking at the schematics here (by c0d3z3r0)
https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf
It's really quite a simple board. What resistor or capacitor would you suggest checking? Maybe R6, R11, or maybe it could be just a bad MOSFET?
The high power path from the supply to the mosfet to the tip back to supply is pretty short. What could cause it to buzz this way other than poor electrical connection?
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Hi
Didn't realise there was a larger thread on the T3A! I posted a question about some overshooting observed with a genuine JBC tip here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-3ta-overshooting-with-jbc-tip/msg5057971/#msg5057971 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-3ta-overshooting-with-jbc-tip/msg5057971/#msg5057971)
The video of the behaviour when testing on a thermometer is here: https://youtu.be/z6oj99W5PH0 (https://youtu.be/z6oj99W5PH0)
I don't see the same behaviour with a smaller, Axiun tip. Axiun commented it's intentional :)
Any feedback from other owners?
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Hi
Didn't realise there was a larger thread on the T3A! I posted a question about some overshooting observed with a genuine JBC tip here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-3ta-overshooting-with-jbc-tip/msg5057971/#msg5057971 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-3ta-overshooting-with-jbc-tip/msg5057971/#msg5057971)
The video of the behaviour when testing on a thermometer is here: https://youtu.be/z6oj99W5PH0 (https://youtu.be/z6oj99W5PH0)
I don't see the same behaviour with a smaller, Axiun tip. Axiun commented it's intentional :)
Any feedback from other owners?
Wat? intentional? How would they even know if Aixun or JBC tip is connected lol
Aixun further commented on my query and stated that being a "non-Axiun" tip, "there maybe some little unstable factors occured during soldering". Uhm...
Well, yeah, ok... so they behave differently because they are not exact clones... "unstable factors occured during soldering" is bullshit...
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Edit(24.07.2023): I did temperature calibration today with my trusted Omega K type temperature probe and the temperatures are very accurate with firmware v1.33 - when unit is set to 350C I get steady 347C on the temperature probe, without any fluctuations whatsoever. With v1.34 the temperatures were jumping up and down like crazy.
Is this the same behaviour like shown in this video or worse? Can you make another video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6oj99W5PH0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6oj99W5PH0)
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Is this the same behaviour like shown in this video or worse? Can you make another video?
Ehm... that's my video :)
But yes, I see others are reporting the same.
I tried 1.33 and the issue disappeared completely!! Magic thank you!
I kind of like the idea that the station is giving a "kick" to the tip whenever I am touching a solder joint but I don't like the idea that if the joint is small I end up with +40C from the setpoint! Maybe it's a good idea but it might need a little refinement!!
Wat? intentional? How would they even know if Aixun or JBC tip is connected lol
Well, yeah, ok... so they behave differently because they are not exact clones... "unstable factors occured during soldering" is bullshit...
Yep, 100% Marketing BS.
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So let me understand something correctly:
I am on v1.26 firmware with the original T3A hardware.... is it worth now to upgrade it to the v1.33 firmware? Anything else worse on it?
But the 1 thing i was missing was to be able to press a button on front panel. To manually force sleep mode when the handle is still off of the stand. Yet I could make some simple hardware hack for this, (to install some new dedicated physical switch). So that is not actually matters to be required absolutely in the firmware so much.
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Is this the same behaviour like shown in this video or worse? Can you make another video?
Ehm... that's my video :)
Sure, look at the quote :) I was asking sushi1808, who reported on July 21, 2023, 06:02:31 am
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ah ops :) sorry!
Anybody else reporting the same? It could be me but I feel the station is noisier with 1.33? As it buzzes - previously it didn't or in a much less noticeable way?
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Tonight I used the T3A for some proper soldering for the first time.
At some point I saw the display going "NO TOOL" intermittently. I thought it was the tip so I swapped the JBC I was using for an Axiun and it happened again after a little while.
THEN I realised that it would ALWAYS happen on SOME pins of the motherboard I was working on???? The motherboard was fully disconnected and the battery had been removed. The board had been sitting there for days so capacitors should have all been discharged.
Can someone comment on this please? What do I do? Is this a faulty unit? I'd understand an intermittent contact but not something like this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5JEp6sO9Jc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5JEp6sO9Jc)
This is what appears on screen when it happens
[attach=1]
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Wow, that looks really weird! o.O
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It's not a kind of board, what matters is that you keep the handle higher. I know it's strange but please check it.
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Hi,
by being a dumbass I got two T3As with the 245 handle. (Un)luckily I got one that is buzzing with the PWM one isn't. Both of them working V1.3 models and produced on the same day (2023.08.11 for the record) per the QC-passed card. :phew:
So I can conclude that it's not an issue of the hardware revision, since there were reports from before the V1.3 was available.
I already checked out that it's not the plug, as applying some force on it, does not fix the issue or the sound of it, which i would expect if it's just a bad connector. But the sound is definitely coming from the front.
Sadly I don't have the tools to remove the front panel. If somebody (maybe @c0d3z3r0?) wants to investigate further, I would be willing to loan the noisy unit out (and would also pay for shipping of course).
Best,
canetoad
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Do you have a clothes iron and a piece of fabric (t-shirt) or a sheets of paper? If so, put the iron on its lowest setting, place the fabric or sheets over the screen and apply the iron. Check every so often until the glass temperature reaches 60-70C. The fabric distributes the heat. Delaminating is an excellent skill to learn in electronics as adhesives are becoming more common. Watch SteveyG's video on the Aixun T3A review. He shows how to disassemble the unit and remove the screen.
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I was shopping for the T3A at the easy100fix store (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803002446602.html?aff_fcid=4b499a7633b0437582bcb87cda63321e-1694985748885-04306-_AKt4pQ&tt=CPS_NORMAL&aff_fsk=_AKt4pQ&aff_platform=shareComponent-detail&sk=_AKt4pQ&aff_trace_key=4b499a7633b0437582bcb87cda63321e-1694985748885-04306-_AKt4pQ&terminal_id=f18d6d2a3bcf4df18290cffad106e37f&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt) -- what is the difference between the $112 "T245 set 110V" and the $129 "T245 B 110V" -- is it that the second one includes the cradle, and the first does not?
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correct.
(and yes: you want to get the 'b' set, it is worth it)
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Thanks! -- was just coming back to answer my own question... the non-B has a cradle, but it's the simpler/earlier folded metal one, right?
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Do you have a clothes iron and a piece of fabric (t-shirt) or a sheets of paper? If so, put the iron on its lowest setting, place the fabric or sheets over the screen and apply the iron. Check every so often until the glass temperature reaches 60-70C. The fabric distributes the heat. Delaminating is an excellent skill to learn in electronics as adhesives are becoming more common. Watch SteveyG's video on the Aixun T3A review. He shows how to disassemble the unit and remove the screen.
After further investigation i discovered some more things: Apparently they changed the design of the glass so it doesn't fit around the knob anymore, you need to remove it first, which they seem to have glued on as well, as pulling and light prying don't seem to get it off.
My first idea was using a hair dryer, but I'm also missing a spudger to get into the small gap around the glass. Over time I will probably buy this stuff, but right not right now as I'm also buying a lot of the other beginner stuff (and of course I was a dumbass and ended up with 2 T3As).
It's probably just some microphonics in one of the MLCCs and I will see if I get something nonconductive over the next few days and see if poking them will change the sound.
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@canetoad it might be worth testing if supplying with a high(er)-quality SMPS changes anything regarding the noise. Also, you could try just swapping the two SMPSs and see if that changes anything
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@canetoad it might be worth testing if supplying with a high(er)-quality SMPS changes anything regarding the noise. Also, you could try just swapping the two SMPSs and see if that changes anything
The 24V jack in the back of the unit is tied to the output of the power supply. In addition to being an output, it can well be used to bypass the internal supply. This is exactly what I’ve already tried. I fed 24V from a linear bench supply (putting two channels in parallel to get a good amount of current). The result was that the buzzing did not change the slightest. It stilled was buzzing away.
Today, I’ve checked my mailbox, and look what I found. This was delivered to me from the Chinese seller that sold me the station
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1878073;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1878079;image)
This suggests the seller thinks the buzzing is indeed caused by the power supply. My current suspicion is that the connection between the supply board and the control board is a bad one. Well, no choice now but to take it apart. Let’s see how this goes.
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Both of them working V1.3 models and produced on the same day (2023.08.11 for the record) per the QC-passed card. :phew:
Did you get the HW revision from the display? I believe mine says 1.0?
It's not a kind of board, what matters is that you keep the handle higher. I know it's strange but please check it.
Is that a suggestion for me? What do you mean with "higher"? More perpendicular to the board?
I was soldering on a pre-heating board today, the PCB was touching the plates and I could hear some buzzing noise from where it was touching the plate when I was soldering. I love this iron but I am not impressed by the design so far.
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Mine T3a was showing "no tip" when the handle was raised high.
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Could you possibly elaborate on what "higher" means please? :)
Anyways, if you watch the video this really happens when the PCB I am working on is grounded - regardless on how I keep the handpiece.
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Mine T3a was showing "no tip" when the handle was raised high.
Sounds like a connection issue, broken cable maybe
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I was soldering on a pre-heating board today, the PCB was touching the plates and I could hear some buzzing noise from where it was touching the plate when I was soldering. I love this iron but I am not impressed by the design so far.
Ooooooooh, I remember something....... can you try touching the connector at the main unit with the metal ring of the handle while a tip is inserted? I bet you'll hear that buzzing noise as well... I think I had mentioned that somewhere in the thread but can't find it right now
EDIT: found it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4417474/#msg4417474 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4417474/#msg4417474)
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Sounds like a connection issue, broken cable maybe
The seller send me new handle and that didn't help. Then he send me new motherboard but I didn't replaced it yet.
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Ooooooooh, I remember something....... can you try touching the connector at the main unit with the metal ring of the handle while a tip is inserted? I bet you'll hear that buzzing noise as well... I think I had mentioned that somewhere in the thread but can't find it right now
EDIT: found it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4417474/#msg4417474 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4417474/#msg4417474)
Someone on the other thread mentioned that post and it's where I started thinking that what I am observing is by design.
Yes, indeed it buzzes when I touch the metal case of the front connector. I don't see much voltage between the tip and the two things though. But it could be it's a very high frequency and the multimeter is not picking it up fully.
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(http://)
The signal between metal ring of the handle and main unit ( handle socket) looks like this.
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Aren't 4V a bit eccessive to see there?
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https://taaralabs.eu/tag/t245/
Large ceramic input capacitor is smaller than electrolytic capacitor with same values would be but the ceramic capacitor “sings” audibly
Hmmmmm.....
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interesting. But the buzzing I am hearing come from the handle (or in the aforementioned case when the handle touches the front connector shell). I don't hear much from the station or very little.
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interesting. But the buzzing I am hearing come from the handle (or in the aforementioned case when the handle touches the front connector shell). I don't hear much from the station or very little.
Well, maybe the connectors inside the handle touching the tip are cause the same effect like touching the main connector with the handle?
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Yes I suspect so.
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I wonder why they use PWM (or "high" frequency pulses) anyways. Yes, it's the first thing that comes to mind but that heater is sluggish so a timed pulse without PWM should do the job as well. That *might* solve the buzzing issue.
Somewhere I read that for the JBC tips a 10ms pulse would mean 1 degree increase. (Maybe it was for T12 but we can try out for T245) For 350°C one needs to heat for t = 10ms * (350 - T_cold) -> roughly 3,3s in the first place and then keep the temperature in the same way. Probably that's actually what the firmware does but with PWM enabled.
I didn't check yet how a) genuine JBC stations and b) other stations like unisolder do it. May be worth taking a look and in a first step patch out PWM in the T3A firmware. (... and hopefully not cause the thing to catch fire lol)
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After an hour of combat with the pesky glass screen, I have been defeated.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1882564;image)
Managed to destroy my prying tools and crack the screen. There is just no room for any tool to get under the glass and pry it off. The way it's installed, the case forms a lip that encompasses the glass, making it impossible to get under it with any prying tool. The suction cup was just hopeless given how strong the bonding material is, even after being heated all the way to 250C. I measured the glass to be about 1mm thick, with the spacing between glass border and the case lip about 1/10 of a mm. Good luck sliding anything under from around the glass. You need a MEGA suction cup and an astronomical force to pry it off without damage.
The good news is that the seller said he will send me a replacement glass cover. So I'll be waiting for that.
In the meantime, now that the damn thing is open, I'm gonna head over to the lab to see how far I can get in debugging the buzzing issue. Ironically, I'll need a proper soldering iron to work on this one.
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yes but those pry tools are meant for other tasks. there are far more appropriate adjacent category of tools which is basically (in effect) 0.1mm shim stainless steel (or a similar thickness +-), with a handle attached.
and while your hot air says 250c i would consider also some possibility of uncertainties depending what machine it was. since sometimes the reported number on the display is not actually the truth. but even so, the pry tool is already known to be insufficient for this challenge... as you clearly already found out!
what i would say is that even with a correct types of metal prying tools then it's still some degree of risk, and a bit tough task, but also certainly not outside the typical smartphones repair doctrines. and several of us have successfully removed it. although at least 1 guy reported chipping the corner of the glass (i didn't)
learn to improve tools and techniques :-//
practice on old / dead smartphones :-//
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what i would say is that even with a correct types of metal prying tools then it's still some degree of risk, and a bit tough task, but also certainly not outside the typical smartphones repair doctrines. and several of us have successfully removed it. although at least 1 guy reported chipping the corner of the glass (i didn't)
I have no doubt that you are among the skilled few who possesses the prying expertise to get the silly glass off. I have never repaired a phone nor did I ever want to (except when my note 4 broke, which I broke that screen too, but that's a story for another time). For the rest of us mere mortals, it's unconscionable to make the Aixun so hard to repair for the average person and diyer, who arguably, is the target market for it given its price category.
Anyways, today, I finally got around to doing some experiments to pinpoint the cause of the buzzing. I started by isolating the control board from everything else:
- power coming directly from the bench supply soldered to the power pins on the board
- wires soldered directly to the pcb and connected to the cartridge as it's held mid-air to take out any influence of poor connections from the handle
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1882720;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1886851;image)
The result? The control board was buzzing on its own! I have to say though, it's a faint buzzing sound, but if you put your ear next to the PCB, certainly discernible.
At this point, I'm starting to suspect all Aixun's buzz by design. And that most users don't really notice it because it is a really faint buzzing. But you would hear it if you put your ears close to the handle or the case, or when the room is quiet. I'm curious if someone with a "silent" Aixun can test this theory.
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At this point, I'm starting to suspect all Aixun's buzz by design. And that most users don't really notice it because it is a really faint buzzing. But you would hear it if you put your ears close to the handle or the case, or when the room is quiet. I'm curious if someone with a "silent" Aixun can test this theory.
This is my guessing too. The way the circuit works has buzzing noise as a consequence but not everybody notices that. Also some units might be more prone to buzzing for mechanical tolerances. And finally, I noticed 1.33 buzzes louder than 1.34 so it also depends on how the element is driver I guess.
Thanks for the analysis, really cool to see!
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After an hour of combat with the pesky glass screen, I have been defeated.
Managed to destroy my prying tools and crack the screen. There is just no room for any tool to get under the glass and pry it off. The way it's installed, the case forms a lip that encompasses the glass, making it impossible to get under it with any prying tool. The suction cup was just hopeless given how strong the bonding material is, even after being heated all the way to 250C. I measured the glass to be about 1mm thick, with the spacing between glass border and the case lip about 1/10 of a mm. Good luck sliding anything under from around the glass. You need a MEGA suction cup and an astronomical force to pry it off without damage.
The good news is that the seller said he will send me a replacement glass cover. So I'll be waiting for that.
In the meantime, now that the damn thing is open, I'm gonna head over to the lab to see how far I can get in debugging the buzzing issue. Ironically, I'll need a proper soldering iron to work on this one.
Ouch. Well, but that's what I suspected earlier... heating time > heating temperature. Regarding prying tools, there are tools that are way thinner https://www.amazon.de/MMOBIEL-Ultra-Thin-professionelles-gebogenes-%C3%96ffnungswerkzeug/dp/B08XZH2XMR (https://www.amazon.de/MMOBIEL-Ultra-Thin-professionelles-gebogenes-%C3%96ffnungswerkzeug/dp/B08XZH2XMR)
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The way the circuit works has buzzing noise as a consequence but not everybody notices that. Also some units might be more prone to buzzing for mechanical tolerances. And finally, I noticed 1.33 buzzes louder than 1.34 so it also depends on how the element is driver I guess.
Thanks for the analysis, really cool to see!
Yes, yes and yes. And also there are multiple things buzzing. At least we know that the control board and the handle are buzzing. Then we have that weird buzzing when the handle metal ring touches GND/connector. And the third thing: I realized that my SMPS is buzzing as well, not too loud, though
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Yes, yes and yes. And also there are multiple things buzzing. At least we know that the control board and the handle are buzzing. Then we have that weird buzzing when the handle metal ring touches GND/connector. And the third thing: I realized that my SMPS is buzzing as well, not too loud, though
I wonder if there's a way to make this circuit softer
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1883131;image)
So that the edge of PWM
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1883146;image)
looks more like this
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1883140;image)
The sharp edge switching 150W at high frequency is probably causing a ton of EMI and mechanical vibration which is probably what we are hearing. I don't mind losing some power in the switching MOSFET, as long as I get rid of buzzing and/or mechanical stress to the whole circuit.
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Yes, yes and yes. And also there are multiple things buzzing. At least we know that the control board and the handle are buzzing. Then we have that weird buzzing when the handle metal ring touches GND/connector. And the third thing: I realized that my SMPS is buzzing as well, not too loud, though
I wonder if there's a way to make this circuit softer
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1883131;image)
So that the edge of PWM
looks more like this
The sharp edge switching 150W at high frequency is probably causing a ton of EMI and mechanical vibration which is probably what we are hearing. I don't mind losing some power in the switching MOSFET, as long as I get rid of buzzing and/or mechanical stress to the whole circuit.
Yeah well, check out my post earlier: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5073184/#msg5073184 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5073184/#msg5073184)
I don't think PWM is required at all
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I don't think PWM is required at all
Right, but I'm thinking about modifying the Aixun in its current form to solve the buzzing problem. The current firmware uses the PWM, so there's not much choice there. But if the edges of the PWM become softer, either pre switching via LPF on Q4, or post switching via an inductor or such, maybe there is hope of lowering the sudden change in magnetic fields that causes vibrations.
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For example, look at the way Unisolder does this:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1883245;image)
There is a low-pass filter consisting of R6 and C85 on the gate of the switching MOSFET. Furthermore, the NPN (Q4) driving the gate has its own low pass filter via R17 and C10.
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I managed to remove the front panel glass with 140 C degrees (PG8018lcd with narrow nozzle) and standard metal 0,2mm prying tool.
Aixun should mount the panel by screws not by tons of strong glue.
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I don't think PWM is required at all
Right, but I'm thinking about modifying the Aixun in its current form to solve the buzzing problem. The current firmware uses the PWM, so there's not much choice there. But if the edges of the PWM become softer, either pre switching via LPF on Q4, or post switching via an inductor or such, maybe there is hope of lowering the sudden change in magnetic fields that causes vibrations.
Firmware can be patched, just like I did for the different LCD ;) And if it's working without PWM, maybe Aixun follows our recommendation. However, currently I don't have the time to test this.
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I managed to remove the front panel glass with 140 C degrees (PG8018lcd with narrow nozzle) and standard metal 0,2mm prying tool.
Aixun should mount the panel by screws not by tons of strong glue.
They don't want you to open it :P
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For example, look at the way Unisolder does this:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1883245;image)
There is a low-pass filter consisting of R6 and C85 on the gate of the switching MOSFET. Furthermore, the NPN (Q4) driving the gate has its own low pass filter via R17 and C10.
Do they use PWM? If yes, what frequency?
EDIT: Oh, they use/recommend AC. How do we know it doesn't have the same issues with DC? https://github.com/valerionew/unisolder-notes#power-supply (https://github.com/valerionew/unisolder-notes#power-supply)
EDIT2: Hmm, AC is rectified... https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2/blob/main/schematics/5.2C/UniSolder5.2C_back.pdf (https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2/blob/main/schematics/5.2C/UniSolder5.2C_back.pdf)
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Do they use PWM? If yes, what frequency?
It looks like they do: https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2/blob/main/software/front/US_Firmware.X/PID.c#L340. Their PID controller is adjusting a duty cycle in the end. I don't know what their frequency though, It's not clear from their github.
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Do they use PWM? If yes, what frequency?
It looks like they do: https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2/blob/main/software/front/US_Firmware.X/PID.c#L340. Their PID controller is adjusting a duty cycle in the end. I don't know what their frequency though, It's not clear from their github.
Oh well, yes, actually any sort of regularly turning power on/off is in fact "PWM". What I mean is that Aixun uses a PWM signal that is again turned on/off regularly, so low-freq PWM on a high-freq PWM signal.
EDIT2: Checking the output of the Unisolder with an oscilloscope for comparison could help... anyone?
EDIT3: Hmm... had a quick look, I might been wrong... maybe their PID algorithm is just weird or they use bad or non-optimal parameters. I wasn't able to full reverse-engineer it, yet
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maybe their PID algorithm is just weird or they use bad or non-optimal parameters. I wasn't able to full reverse-engineer it, yet
Interesting, hope you can figure it out. The unisolder has historically been convoluted, confusing, and unnecessarily complicated.
I’ve asked a related question on Electronics Stack Exhange here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/682699/pwm-circuit-that-switches-mosfet-with-soft-edges/ (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/682699/pwm-circuit-that-switches-mosfet-with-soft-edges/) to get some help in calming the harsh power circuit down.
I’ve got one answer so far with some very interesting insight. He actually produced a spectrogram of the audio in my YouTube video demonstrating the buzzing phenomenon, take a look:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1884232;image)
Knowing that the Aixun switches at 166Hz, it appears that the buzzing frequency is curiously the 9th harmonic of this fundamental at around 1.5kHz. Something somewhere in this circuit is resonating! And this resonance worsens when the handle shell touches the wire cover.
While softening the switching edges filters these harmonics. I’m more interested in the source of this resonance at this peculiar frequency. Something about just the 9th harmonic that is getting amplified in some loop. I don’t hear anything in any other multiple of 166Hz.
Also he suggests to put a behemoth of a low pass LC filter before the heating element with the cutoff frequency of 40Hz. I don’t really have the inductor he is suggesting to us. There is probably better ways to filter it.
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how did you generate the spectrogram? looks cool :-+
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Oh, you are in this thread, lol. I didn't look.
Spectrogram is just an Audacity option (or whatever variant of -acity is politically acceptable these days; I have an old version for what little audio work I do so I haven't paid attention to that stuff).
Tim
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Oh, you are in this thread, lol. I didn't look.
Spectrogram is just an Audacity option (or whatever variant of -acity is politically acceptable these days; I have an old version for what little audio work I do so I haven't paid attention to that stuff).
Tim
Hi Tim! Didn't realize you are on this forum either, though your icon looked familiar :D
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So after some more experiments tonight, I finally managed to eliminate the buzzing. Here's the circuit I built, essentially moving the high power path out of the circuit, and also providing a separate, isolated supply to run the high current loop.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1886773;image)
I didn't have any high power PMOS at hand, so I used one of my spare IRF3710 n-channel MOSFETs as a high-side switch by adding an extra, isolated 8V supply to drive the gate. A boost converter could also be used here.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1886779;image)
Running this, it was absolutely silent. I didn't hear any buzzing whatsoever from the board or the any of the supplies.
Next, I removed the 24V bench supply and used Aixun's own 24V supply:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1886785;image)
And what do you know, everything started buzzing again! What's going on here!! It seems when the high power path shares the same supply as the analog control circuit, the thing just starts buzzing.
It was already getting late, so I ended it here. My next try is going to be supplying the 2.8V for the digital section straight from an isolated bench supply and see if that does anything.
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And here i was just assuming that it depended on the grounding... (for example if you touch the tip to a grounded objects whilst soldering, or if the aixun base station is plugged into a poor grounding, or if the 1mohm static grounding resistor explodes due to static shocks, things like this).
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Aha, so it's not the element buzzing, it's the supply.
On the upside, the proposed solution still works, if just moved over to the input to the switch (i.e. an LC filter between supply and switch); of course, it's no more economical there, either. ;)
That suggests the noise is probably core magnetostriction from the supply throttling up and down regularly (and suddenly); it might even be going idle inbetween pulses. Replacing the supply with a quieter one is the most expedient route. Digging into the SMPS yourself would be... more challenging.
I suppose I'm still only assuming it's SMPS, as I haven't seen complete up-close internal photos of this thing.
Tim
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i think you have to ultimately realize that at least 1 component somewhere in the box is making a sound. and whether thats from a magnetic coil, or its a microphonic peizo from an mlcc or something else. then that component either isn't locked down properly enough, or it's basically gone faulty / bad and may be a subject for possible replacement. since it's making a noise after all...
but the reason that it is resonating is because there is a resonance occuring at some specific frequency, due to a resonance occurring or being driven in the circuit.
so if you think about somethingg like a power brick (or smps) if it's not grounded but isolated / floating. then this is why i am saying maybe there is some grounding issues. whereby that floating is not tied to anything, thus permitting such a resonance to occur between multiple parts of the circuit. to generate that.
but what do i know eh? but what i am really saying is look at your active circuitry and whether powered internal or external. and whether the tip is getting grounded or is left floating when touching the target metal object (the thing that you are actively soldering). that is when the output is being driven to pwm and put the heat / power into the tip.
and then maybe something can fall out here and makes a better sense from it. to inform what you might try to measure next. or identify how to disable buzzing more reliably. and under which specific conditions.
unfortunately i cannot help you here on my unit because... it never buzzes. it's totally fine under all of the circumstances (because 0 components is faulty, nothing is due for replacement for this matters). however if the station did buzzes, i just simply would not care to matter enough. because it's too minor matters to really bother fixing it. i would probably just choose to live with the buzzing issue. (but so long as it was not too high pitched or nasty sounds, there is different types of buzz).
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The fact that no one else has reported noise, does sound suspicious.
Maybe they changed the design, maybe you got a counterfeit, but maybe more likely it's just a magnetic core or capacitor or something has come loose.
Note that capacitors and magnetic cores (by piezoelectricity for ceramic caps, and electro/magnetostriction otherwise) make noise even when fully anchored; these effects result in strain of the bulk material itself. It's usually a small effect, and in particular I would expect voltage changes to be small (at least, if the supply is operating nominally, i.e. compensation is adequate) so that capacitors can be ruled out, and that leaves cores, hence my proceeding reply. But again, this would apply to any unit, and a loose core able to rattle, or move due to attractive forces, or wires in the windings by repulsive forces, would be a viable explanation for additional noise.
Not necessarily "faulty" components, but, different in some way, seems likely.
Tim
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and pretty much (quite often) if the component is not sufficiently fixated with enough of glue or potting compound. then any degrees of freedom in vibration will mechanically couple to the substrate that the component is mechanically mounted to or touching. which often is the pcb, which can have resonany modes, in different locations on the board, and its mounting holes. and so on. such that a resonance can additively be efficient (or less) to convert such a small and tiny piezo energy vibrations into a more audible sound.
and this is specially easier when lower energies are requied to audibly hear that frequency, such as in the higher frquencies. however you can get lower pitched hitting or buzzing also. and electro magnetic sources can create much more energies for lower frequency vibrations.
so there is some sense to understanding those things. both in the debugging. but also for pcb designs, or to redesign to attempt to try to reduce such issues. (and for various ways to mitigate, there are different strategies, or multiple strategies in different ways).
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And here i was just assuming that it depended on the grounding... (for example if you touch the tip to a grounded objects whilst soldering, or if the aixun base station is plugged into a poor grounding, or if the 1mohm static grounding resistor explodes due to static shocks, things like this).
What grounding resistor? There is none in the T3A.
Aha, so it's not the element buzzing, it's the supply.
...
That suggests the noise is probably core magnetostriction from the supply throttling up and down regularly (and suddenly); it might even be going idle inbetween pulses. Replacing the supply with a quieter one is the most expedient route. Digging into the SMPS yourself would be... more challenging.
i think you have to ultimately realize that at least 1 component somewhere in the box is making a sound. and whether thats from a magnetic coil, or its a microphonic peizo from an mlcc or something else. then that component either isn't locked down properly enough, or it's basically gone faulty / bad and may be a subject for possible replacement. since it's making a noise after all...
The noise not only comes from the supply, but also from the handle. The supply might be the root cause, though.
I suppose I'm still only assuming it's SMPS, as I haven't seen complete up-close internal photos of this thing.
Yup, it is.
The fact that no one else has reported noise, does sound suspicious.
Multiple people reported that issue
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@drsky does it also buzz when supplying the 24V from your bench supply but without your circuit?
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Oh, look what I found... doesn't this supply look incredibly similar?
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hb3d3ba1e50064c2a89720def7f234ec76/T12-L-ten-Station-LED-Digital-Temp-Einstellen-Reparatur-L-tkolben-Ausr-stung-Tragbare-Home-Elektronik.jpg (https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hb3d3ba1e50064c2a89720def7f234ec76/T12-L-ten-Station-LED-Digital-Temp-Einstellen-Reparatur-L-tkolben-Ausr-stung-Tragbare-Home-Elektronik.jpg)
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005125820177.html (https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005125820177.html)
So, Aixun has copied the Handskit T12 supply, which is probably based on WX-DC2416.
https://oshwlab.com/FrankCA/wx-dc2416-psu (https://oshwlab.com/FrankCA/wx-dc2416-psu)
... which seems to have other problems as well \o/ https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/smps-killed-my-radio-reception.373045/page-2 (https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/smps-killed-my-radio-reception.373045/page-2)
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i did not look too closely but afaikr somebody else said at the beginning examinations that the t3a original psu was based on the kesger smps. however they might have made some slight modifications or allowances to enable the higher burst power withough shutting itself down due to ocp/opp.
so the implication is that they are both clones branched or copied from slightly earlier t12 smps design. but like you say, it is indeed seems based on that other design before to begin with (remembering that even before kesger it was like some no-name project of this 1 chinese guy, the original 't12' stations).
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Well, not sure about the KSGER, because it's using a different pwm controller and it has a different layout. While they all are very similiar, the Aixun and HANDSKIT share controller, count of schottky diodes, layout and even component ids/names.
Anyway, I wonder how the new combined T3A/T3B supply differs
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ok. but perhaps there might be more than 1 version of ksger psu over the years? at least they have had revisions for other part of the station (for the controller pcb, although i know we are not talking about that)
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Oh, interesting... I just had a look at my SMPS... I got version 2.0, the one in the picture above is v1.3. Let's see if I can spot any differences (probably difficult using only the picture :/)
EDIT: Yeah, I see two small differences. See R15 and 0 ohms resistor below.
Schematics available:
WX-DC2416: https://oshwlab.com/FrankCA/wx-dc2416-psu (https://oshwlab.com/FrankCA/wx-dc2416-psu)
There also is a schematic for a CR6842-based SMPS, which is used by the Aixun SMPS. It is very similiar to WX-DC2412. https://oshwlab.com/kisly.va/cr6842-power-supply (https://oshwlab.com/kisly.va/cr6842-power-supply)
Some random differences and details regarding WX-DC2412/16, Aixun versions:
- Different PWM Controller (probably doesn't matter much)
- Aixun is lacking Y caps, while WX has both Y caps and X cap
- Aixun moved the NTC from behind the bridge rectifier (DC) before the Fuse (AC) - I have no idea what is right or better or if it matters...
- High resistance path for MOSFET gate uses 100 ohms, while WX uses 27 - no idea... I read that too low values would increase ringing and voltage spikes
- Aixun has a 0 ohms resistor between MOSFET gate and high/low resistance circuit, while WX has 5.6 ohms. v1.3 has no resistor there but a simple trace, hmmmm
- As already noted, Aixun has a single shottky diode. However the new T3A/T3B combined version has two
- v1.3 is lacking R15 (or is it R14?), for v2.0 R15=4.7k. Connected between pins 1, 2 of the opto coupler. This is not present in any public schematics
- Thermal protection is not being used
- switching frequency is 72.5kHz.
I had another look a the current limit. This is the circuit: (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4421320/#msg4421320 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4421320/#msg4421320))
MOSFET Source
|
680 | R10, R11 (0.43 each) -> R_s = 0.215
SENSE <----------===----+------+---===-----+--- GND
+---===-----+
The current limit threshold voltage is 0.76V (max. 0.9V). So the peak current limit should be 3.5A. EDIT: Oops, this is the current on the primary side. What does that mean for sec?
Well, I measured 17A (at ~0V), so something is wrong here. The 11A fuse in my BM789 didn't burn as well o.O because the voltage dropped to 0V? Probably this is a very bad way of measuring the max current...
I then measured the max current with an Aixun tip connected. 7.5A (Voltage dropped from 24.2V to 22.5V).
That sounds more like the peak current of a WX-DC2416 (6-9 A depending on exact model), but still I would expect a maximum of 3.5A.
One more thing: the SMPS is completely quiet even on full load. I still believe the noise has to do with the heater PWM frequency...
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I don't own a AiXun station, the hardware appears to be a copy of the T12 clone but with stupid changes and penny saving.
I see many H/W mistakes in the T3A - the V1.2 PSU has terrible values for the TL431 circuit, it could be the "whistle" is due to the PSU going unstable as I would expect. A 510Ω resistor for the opto LED off a 24V rail? OUCH. No R14 top keep the TL431 alive? All values are not good there, as if they have some problems.
Check if your V2.0 PSU addresses any of this.
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@floobydust thanks for your comment! Check out what I found out in my post above :)
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Hello... seems I have a v2.0 one here too. (and not any buzzing or other issues).
510Ω resistor for the opto LED off a 24V rail?
As per c0d3z3r0 comment I also measured 4.7k there (total, between the 2 opto pins on low voltage side). But you know... he seems to have really scrutinized it now. Well done!
:-+
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i cannot help you here on my unit because... it never buzzes. it's totally fine under all of the circumstances
Thanks. So that puts to rest the theory that all Aixuns buzz.
Aha, so it's not the element buzzing, it's the supply.
I'm still not convinced that it's the power supply alone causing this.
@drsky does it also buzz when supplying the 24V from your bench supply but without your circuit?
Yes, it does. I went back to the lab today for further hacking. In fact, I was wrong in my previous assumption. The circuit that I previously said does not buzz, with external power switch and bench supply, did in fact make a buzzing sound from the handle . When the cartridge was connected mid-air, there was no noise, but when I used the handle, the handle was buzzing. Also, providing an isolated supply for the digital section did nothing.
This setup, powered by the bench supply, with everything soldered in, was buzzing from the handle, and faintly from the station.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1890297;image)
Furthermore, I discovered some weird effect. For example I tried installing a 47nF across R6:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1890303;image)
With this cap installed, suddenly I witnessed the weird bug that Tony shared not too long ago. The screen would turn off, complaining about "no tool installed" and then quickly coming back alive a second later showing a readout of the temperature, and then go off again half a second after. This is getting more and more confusing as I go down this rabbit hole. Why would this happen?
My understanding of the way Aixun determines if a hand-piece is installed is by 1-checking the ID pin, and 2-reading out the thermocouple voltage. So putting this 47n cap is likely throwing off the thermocouple readout, but how though?
And here i was just assuming that it depended on the grounding... (for example if you touch the tip to a grounded objects whilst soldering, or if the aixun base station is plugged into a poor grounding, or if the 1mohm static grounding resistor explodes due to static shocks, things like this).
Maybe it is a grounding issue. Could it be a bad solder joint? Maybe the power header that I've trusted so far is just a bad one. 11PM rolled around and I had to head back. More tests remain to be done.
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My understanding of the way Aixun determines if a hand-piece is installed is by 1-checking the ID pin, and 2-reading out the thermocouple voltage. So putting this 47n cap is likely throwing off the thermocouple readout, but how though?
Well, I believe I was told that the id pin is meant for T12 handle identification purpose. Because in my unit, it's T245 handle. And in that handle's wiring the white wire is bridged to the green wire (-). For which green color is the GND wire. So presumably when ID=GND then the MCU on the controller PCB (the software). Checks that GPIO line and determines that 0v = T245 handle. And something else (whether floating or otherwise some specific value). Would then pertain to a T12 tip.
Here I labelled the colors inside the T245 handle.
[attach=1]
If you look carefully here the ID printed on the PCB referrs to the through hole header pin. Which then leads to the bottom pin on the GX12-5 connector.
[attach=2]
And here is the handle insides (for the Aixun T3a - T245 type hand piece):
[attach=3]
Rotating it in my hand:
[attach=4]
And here i was just assuming that it depended on the grounding... (for example if you touch the tip to a grounded objects whilst soldering, or if the aixun base station is plugged into a poor grounding, or if the 1mohm static grounding resistor explodes due to static shocks, things like this).
Maybe it is a grounding issue. Could it be a bad solder joint? Maybe the power header that I've trusted so far is just a bad one. 11PM rolled around and I had to head back. More tests remain to be done.
Well I am not any sort of expert on mains grounding - far from it! But my understanding is that a poor quality (or even completely "gone", or intermittent) installation ground can occur within the room level. (or as you say on the socket strips etc). Or it can occur at the building level, or it can be that the stake driven into the soil, with respect to being tied also elsewhere locally in the incoming feed or the wider neighbourhood. But generally speaking: it's more likely in certain places or locations than other locations. So the level of suspicion eh, maybe there are professional electicians tools to measure ground connectivity. In a certified fashion. I do think it's not my business really to comment for how to go about determining such things.
But lets say your wall ground is fine. Ok then, but does the SMPS inside the Aixun carry that to the low voltage side? Well it does on my Version 2.0 Aixun SMPS (which quite funny, it has "T12" written also on the PCB of the SMPS). Anyhow the trace path of the ground on the V2.0 PCB you can see on the bottom layer clearly. It snakes around in an S shape. And then comes out at the "-" DC terminal. The path looks solid here. But perhaps if the jumper power wire itself is a bit dodgy or marginal when you press it? Or perhaps you have different version of PSU.
As for the handle buzzing. I simply do not understand that. However is this T245 handle you are talking about? --> the logical step might be to request new handle then. Because some of these handle can be known issues. And if you are sent new handle then you could also (later on) destructively dissassemble the old buzzing handle to look inside of it.
However if your handle is something else (for example like T12). Then that itself could maybe have different set of possible handle issues. But that is not my area of familiarity for these T3a model. I do not own such handle to comment about those ones.
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My understanding of the way Aixun determines if a hand-piece is installed is by 1-checking the ID pin, and 2-reading out the thermocouple voltage. So putting this 47n cap is likely throwing off the thermocouple readout, but how though?
Well, I believe I was told that the id pin is meant for T12 handle identification purpose. Because in my unit, it's T245 handle. And in that handle's wiring the white wire is bridged to the green wire (-). For which green color is the GND wire. So presumably when ID=GND then the MCU on the controller PCB (the software). Checks that GPIO line and determines that 0v = T245 handle. And something else (whether floating or otherwise some specific value). Would then pertain to a T12 tip.
Yes the ID pin is used to detect what tip (actually what handle) is connected. It's not only for the T12 but for all tip types.
However, there are two messages: 1) no handle 2) no tool (don't remember the correct messages)
1 is checked via the ID ping, 2 (the tip) is checked by measuring the tip temperature
[attachimg=1]
Well I am not any sort of expert on mains grounding - far from it! But my understanding is that a poor quality (or even completely "gone", or intermittent) installation ground can occur within the room level. (or as you say on the socket strips etc). Or it can occur at the building level, or it can be that the stake driven into the soil, with respect to being tied also elsewhere locally in the incoming feed or the wider neighbourhood. But generally speaking: it's more likely in certain places or locations than other locations. So the level of suspicion eh, maybe there are professional electicians tools to measure ground connectivity. In a certified fashion. I do think it's not my business really to comment for how to go about determining such things.
Regarding grounding issues at room / building level I am very confident, that I have no such issues here.
As for the handle buzzing. I simply do not understand that. However is this T245 handle you are talking about? --> the logical step might be to request new handle then. Because some of these handle can be known issues. And if you are sent new handle then you could also (later on) destructively dissassemble the old buzzing handle to look inside of it.
My handle and others seem to buzz, too. What should be bad there? It's just cables and a connector. You don't have to destroy it, you can easily (well, depending on how much glue they used for your handle, for me it was easy) pull off the upper part (maybe have to twist it a bit).
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i cannot help you here on my unit because... it never buzzes. it's totally fine under all of the circumstances
Thanks. So that puts to rest the theory that all Aixuns buzz.
Aha, so it's not the element buzzing, it's the supply.
I'm still not convinced that it's the power supply alone causing this.
Me neither. Since both the SMPS and handle are buzzing I really think it's the pwm swichting of the controller...
@drsky does it also buzz when supplying the 24V from your bench supply but without your circuit?
Yes, it does. I went back to the lab today for further hacking. In fact, I was wrong in my previous assumption. The circuit that I previously said does not buzz, with external power switch and bench supply, did in fact make a buzzing sound from the handle . When the cartridge was connected mid-air, there was no noise, but when I used the handle, the handle was buzzing. Also, providing an isolated supply for the digital section did nothing.
Oh well, it depends very much on the temperature set (how much it needs to heat). Set it to 380 or 400 degrees and you'll hear that buzzing each 1-2 seconds.
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Yes for the opening of these handles - it can be done non-destructively, with some care taken. And perhaps you can see inside what few is in there to go wrong. (If not a poor ground pin contact, but in general tolerances between the rings and the contacts can be less well fitting to make some clean and strong connection).
When the cartridge was connected mid-air, there was no noise
Could you please try to clarify what you are actually saying here?
Are you saying by "cartridge mid air" that you put clips onto a bare T245 cartrigage (not in any handle whatsoever). And then ran yourself custom wires to the base unit, to test the cartidge alon outside of the handle?
Or are you saying that you took a C245 cartridge in 1 hand, and then the Aixun T245 handle in the other hand, and plugged it in while the handle was removed from the stand, that then it buzzed?
but when I used the handle, the handle was buzzing.
Ok. So again, I am not fully clear. Are you saying that "handle is cradle", that when you leave the handle into the cradle stand. That then it buzzes? Because this could be that when the ground jacket of the cartridge is inserted into the stand. That it then has a poor electrical connectivity through the metal stand itself. That then is supposed to go through that banana wire, which is a return path back to the station's sense pin (stand detect pin).
This could then be like something to give a partial circuit, for example if not plugged into. Or if through the MCU isn't clear path to ground.
I am scratching my head here. But when I measure this stand detect pin on my PCB, it's not connected to ground, it's like mega ohms (or not connected to GND path). However you can see on the PCB that they used a green and yellow ground wire to run as a seperate cable to the back of the station, the 4mm banana jack to the stand detect port. That has it's own dedicated wire.
So if you re-assembled your station back together, and mistook this ground marked wire for ground (that it is not actually). Then perhaps some mis-wiring or something can be possible by error? But then the stand detect function cannot work, that the heater cannot heat up. And it seems like an easy to spot mistake. (To eliminate at least).
Sorry if that line of enquiry is redundant, or unclear. But we do at least know that the stand detect (of the stand itself) can be a bit dodgy sometimes. Within the mechanical assembly of the stand, for the way it is constructed.
I forgot now what was some exact discussions about that. But some mod around the hinge nut or some things like that. During reassembly. That the connection fits against.
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Me neither. Since both the SMPS and handle are buzzing I really think it's the pwm swichting of the controller...
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Oh well, it depends very much on the temperature set (how much it needs to heat). Set it to 380 or 400 degrees and you'll hear that buzzing each 1-2 seconds.
This c0d3z3r0 makes more sense probably to explain buzzings. That the PWM is not clean itself. But either double PWM, or that the switching mosfet is kindda failed, damaged or otherwise out of spec? For example, if the mosfet is replaced to a perfect mosfet. Then can the buzzing be eliminated?
In other words, does the ambient conditions affect / impart noise onto the sensitive mosfet gate? (To then mess up the switching).
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Yes for the opening of these handles - it can be done non-destructively, with some care taken. And perhaps you can see inside what few is in there to go wrong. (If not a poor ground pin contact, but in general tolerances between the rings and the contacts can be less well fitting to make some clean and strong connection).
When the cartridge was connected mid-air, there was no noise
Could you please try to clarify what you are actually saying here?
Are you saying by "cartridge mid air" that you put clips onto a bare T245 cartrigage (not in any handle whatsoever). And then ran yourself custom wires to the base unit, to test the cartidge alon outside of the handle?
Or are you saying that you took a C245 cartridge in 1 hand, and then the Aixun T245 handle in the other hand, and plugged it in while the handle was removed from the stand, that then it buzzed?
but when I used the handle, the handle was buzzing.
Ok. So again, I am not fully clear. Are you saying that "handle is cradle", that when you leave the handle into the cradle stand. That then it buzzes?
I think what he tried to say is: the handle is only buzzing when it's being used to solder (when it's cooled down and needs to heat) but it doesn't when it's just turned on but only cooled down by the air surrounding it.
Because this could be that when the ground jacket of the cartridge is inserted into the stand. That it then has a poor electrical connectivity through the metal stand itself. That then is supposed to go through that banana wire, which is a return path back to the station's sense pin (stand detect pin).
This could then be like something to give a partial circuit, for example if not plugged into. Or if through the MCU isn't clear path to ground.
I am scratching my head here. But when I measure this stand detect pin on my PCB, it's not connected to ground, it's like mega ohms (or not connected to GND path). However you can see on the PCB that they used a green and yellow ground wire to run as a seperate cable to the back of the station, the 4mm banana jack to the stand detect port. That has it's own dedicated wire.
No, the heater current won't go that path. The stand detect cable is connected to a pulled-up GPIO, not GND. GND is on the metal ring, so the GPIO detects that.
So if you re-assembled your station back together, and mistook this ground marked wire for ground (that it is not actually). Then perhaps some mis-wiring or something can be possible by error? But then the stand detect function cannot work, that the heater cannot heat up. And it seems like an easy to spot mistake. (To eliminate at least).
That would mean everyone with that buzzing noise did the same mistake? I'd call this very unlikely :)
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Me neither. Since both the SMPS and handle are buzzing I really think it's the pwm swichting of the controller...
...
Oh well, it depends very much on the temperature set (how much it needs to heat). Set it to 380 or 400 degrees and you'll hear that buzzing each 1-2 seconds.
This c0d3z3r0 makes more sense probably to explain buzzings. That the PWM is not clean itself. But either double PWM, or that the switching mosfet is kindda failed, damaged or otherwise out of spec? For example, if the mosfet is replaced to a perfect mosfet. Then can the buzzing be eliminated?
In other words, does the ambient conditions affect / impart noise onto the sensitive mosfet gate? (To then mess up the switching).
Yeah, maybe the MOSFETs differ greatly in quality.
I just had the idea I could set up very simply circuit with Arduino, MOSFET, tip and do some experiments with PWM and see if I can reproduce this behaviour with different timings/duty cycles/whatever... Maybe later..
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ok c0d3z3r0 so my theories about grounding issue are largely eliminated. That what you say is to focus at the switching mosfet. Or to the input of the mosfet gate, and how is that signal. And this is basically FET, right? So if you attach a scope probe to the gate line of the mosfet. Will that then affect the signal?
Or (for example if you don't have any oscilloscope) just, you know somehow "safely" to interfere a bit with the gate line. To see if buzzing can stop. Whether by adding some passive to around there or just touching it somehow. *but not to damage the mosfet gate.
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With this cap installed, suddenly I witnessed the weird bug that Tony shared not too long ago. The screen would turn off, complaining about "no tool installed" and then quickly coming back alive a second later showing a readout of the temperature, and then go off again half a second after. This is getting more and more confusing as I go down this rabbit hole. Why would this happen?
Put a good 10R or so in series with the cap. You've most likely made a VHF/UHF oscillator.
Tim
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When the cartridge was connected mid-air, there was no noise
Could you please try to clarify what you are actually saying here?
Are you saying by "cartridge mid air" that you put clips onto a bare T245 cartrigage (not in any handle whatsoever). And then ran yourself custom wires to the base unit, to test the cartidge alon outside of the handle?
Yes, It's the second image in this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5085100/#msg5085100 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5085100/#msg5085100). Nothing was buzzing in this setup. But when I introduced the handle later on, leaving everything the same, the handle was buzzing.
Are you saying that "handle is cradle", that when you leave the handle into the cradle stand.
The handle was just sitting on the table.
I just had the idea I could set up very simply circuit with Arduino, MOSFET, tip and do some experiments with PWM and see if I can reproduce this behaviour with different timings/duty cycles/whatever... Maybe later..
This would be a really useful bit of data. Perhaps it's just a bad handle. Or a bad mosfet, or both.
Put a good 10R or so in series with the cap. You've most likely made a VHF/UHF oscillator.
Well, I gave your LC filter a try tonight. It wasn't quite 11mH, but it looked pretty beefy (sadly no LCR around to measure it). When I assembled the filter as you suggested on Electronics SE, again the Aixun started bugging out saying no tool detected or something like that, and it kept going in and out of consciousness. This same exact thing happened when I installed the cap I showed last time.
Then I thought, what would happen if I place the filter on the input of the mosfet, in other words, right after the bench supply. The buzzing didn't improve at all. Then I looked across and magic smoke was escaping from the mosfet. And the handle looked like this:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1890981;image)
Oops! Bad idea lol. It looks like the tip was boiling. Thankfully though, the tip survived the encounter, and after some cleaning, all is well. Rest in peace though little fellow
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1890975;image)
With that, the Aixun had to undergo some surgery to use the n-channel mosfet instead as I showed before. It will have to remain this way until the buzzing problem is resolved and/or I buy a new mosfet (with preferebly lower on resistance).
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1890969;image)
Let's just say I'm not going back to the LC idea. But it was interesting to see that this LC filter also threw off the thermocouple readouts, which I have no idea why. Next, I'll try to put a 10Ohm in series with the 47n as you suggest, but I have a hunch that would cause the same "no tool detected" intermittent error.
I really wish I had another trustworthy handle to test. Maybe it is better to just take the L and buy the genuine handle from JBC.
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Let me just say: a faulty chinese manufactured handle is entirely possible. They are not made quite the same as official JBC ones. And if there becomes a short in the handle, or the cable. Due to an issue internal (that was not checked / dissassembled). Then it can indeed cause the mosfet to explode. In fact the same thing happened to me with an older T12 handle from aliexpress, when paired with a KSGER T12 control board. So if it can happen to me it can happen to you. And also Florian (of Voltlog youtube). He had an issue with this style T245 handle himself, that came with different chinese brand station (and he posted a video to explain what to look for in defective T245 handle). So that is another one to look at.
Anyhow, the other reason for why mosfet can be stuck to on position is the gate input to control the mosfet. So think about it being basically very sensitive charge device. This can be en entry point for damages, or perhaps oscillating. Consider also a busted GPIO pin on the MCU that is then floating. This is another possible.
Replace mosfet, MCU, and handle and all should be fine. However to say is easy would be better to check with scope the mosfet gate. After replacing mosfet entirely. Which you have already done now.
But you must also check handle is not faulty device. So this goes back to prior quesitons / comment. That you tested C245 cartridge bare (with direct wires) outside of handle. And this question you already answered as: no this is fine.
So repeat bare cartridge test, with new mosfet. And individual wires. And you have eliminated handle. If not buzzing then handle is faulty. And must be examined / destroyed / replaced further.
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Well, what about keeping the handle out of the equation? I mean directly connecting the tip with clamps or soldering the wires to the tip. Does it make a difference? If yes, it could be a) a faulty handle or b) simply the fact that there is no 100% solid connection.
However, I doubt that the original handle is that different. Anybody want to open their genuine handle and see what's inside? :-/O
Btw. can you please test if setting to 380° does make a difference for you as well? (as I suggested in one of my earlier posts)
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There are quality control differences between handles, and he already said that without handle not buzzing... so while handle fault is relatively rare, those data all suggests handle issue. If not faulty then damaged seperator rings between the 3 layers of the cartridge, or pushing in the cartridge "too far" so that it goes too deep and then crosses between the contacts. Things like this.
There is also actual tolerance differences between the cartridges itself (genuine or aixun / other chinese ones). So not just tolerance difference within the handle. Could be either or both. But this is all based on speculating until handle is gets checked out properly. Which is highly recommended at this point to focus there. On that part.
... and if not handle then check wiring or cabling to the handle. For any other possible issues.
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Let me guess, you put the inductor on the wrong side. :P
Tim
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and he already said that without handle not buzzing...
Could you please point me to where you read this - maybe I'm just not seeing it.
What I read here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5076199/#msg5076199 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5076199/#msg5076199)):
- no buzzing of the tip when connected directly without handle - ok, so the handle might buzz because of the same reason it buzzes when touching ring and connector
- the control board still buzzes
So, even if you say the handle buzzing is cause by the handle itself due to bad connection (which might be true indeed), it is *not* the source of the buzzing issue. And even when you solve the handle buzzing, the control board and smps are still buzzing.
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yes because my opinion is that a handle issue is more concerns to checkout 1st. and be sure is perfect and all sorted out. then after that to subsequently move on to the other things.
because if you have un identified issue in the handle, then you can still blow up your station. which is not very advisible outcomes.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzfpZB6R6js (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzfpZB6R6js)
AiXun T3A - would not buy until they get the bugs worked out.
The video of firmware V1.34 is absolutely hilarious. It stays loyal to propaganda by displaying a nice proper tip temperature- despite an overshoot past 450°C when it freaks out due to a tip ground fault :palm:
AiXun seems to be playing too cheap and not very intelligent in hardware or firmware design. We can figure it out here but after seeing the stupid controller reading "360°C" when it's at 450°C... this is kindergarten-level programming.
edit: issue is discussed in this other thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-t3a-misbehaving-on-grounded-pcbs/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-t3a-misbehaving-on-grounded-pcbs/)
There is no protection at all for -ve back-EMF spikes from cable and heater inductance or ESD.
To T12 clones I add a fast diode like RS1M across the heating element to clamp -ve spikes. I have also seen a small cap across the heater to help with that. Would also add to a T3.
Laptop power MOSFET AO4413 (https://aosmd.com/sites/default/files/res/data_sheets/AO4413.pdf) max. VGS +/-25V and VDS -30V. With those R6 10k, R11 1k resistors gives drive of 21.8V and T12 clones instead use 2k (or 4k7)/1k for 16V or 20V drive.
The power mosfet is of course run near it's max ratings in keeping with doctrine of maximum efficiency, no waste.
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yes indeed, i myself am uncertain (and sceptical) why to upgrade past my v1.26 firmware. to be considering caution for that part.
for the handle itself: it is likely that aixun itself not makes these handles. but instead purchase them from another manufacturer. at least not clear. and neither is the q.c. over time clear for these stations. that they check the handle is good, really they should have some test jig with a dummy cartridge probe contacts. and the physical fit / feel that it cannot be pushed too far inside (due to poor tolerances). and so like this, that the customer does not need to check upon receiving items.
for the aixun branded cartridge, is know those had previously some production issue. that aixun latter on addressed after complains and fixed. so this is an open question (from myself). as to the cartridge.
on esd which aixun didn't do for the stand detect line... we just simply need to add 1 tvs diode bridged to ground on the stand detect input line of controller pcb. however in general the gpios on this chinese gd32 mcus seems less reliable, or poor quality, or more vunerable to esd damages (than a real stm32 with proper specs). so this is chinese mcu silicon clone (copycat) die. that they just can perhaps be less certain matters. but i am baffled why aixun didn't add tvs diode on the newest revised controller pcb. maybe on other completely different products they have. but seems not for these t3a station. so that is a miss, but also easy enough to add yourself as a mod. highly recommended step.
anyhow moving on, i have to say also: the fact that the tip is hard grounded is... indeed not ideal design choice. wouldn't it be better thru a resistor? (for example 1mohm is typical for esd grounding, otherwise some other suited values). what would be good is if then the thermocouple can be working and giving valid readings with that esd resistor in place. not to throw it off.
and reverse current spikes....
is probably worse on higher load, when under more duress? because i have not heavy used my station yet. only for mild / moderate tasks. and that would take to hook up a scope etc. which i have not gotten yet. maybe for future i can see these reverse spike and apply mod. (what was it, inductor or something?)
however maybe this also goes back to whether the cartridge is actually genuine jbc, and not faulty. or at least for the temp overshoot part (if not the grounding had thrown off the thermocouple measurements).
if the station firmware is either being calibrated to expect the clone aixun cartridge, or instead a genuine jbc cartridge. which does affect overshoot as we discussed previous on thread. different tc or whatever it is. or poor thermal conductivity into tc area (or voids in manufacturing). can be an issue that simply does not exist with genuine cartridges.
it's some specific issues to consider, yes. but does the whole station makes trash? well i think after mods is good enough. but not without mods. so yes, aixun should listen, and bring out proper hardware revision to address such issues for future customers. and consider that extra efforts for quality is worthwhile investment. to keep brand reputation. to increase brand reputation and trust. (that now we all know the name aixun). and also because fixing does not increase bom cost hardly very much. when others does the work to find issues, then those revisions are their end of the bargain here. to be together in partnership with community. to not to trash a good thing. and weaker glue onto the glass. and such things.
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anyhow moving on, i have to say also: the fact that the tip is hard grounded is... indeed not ideal design choice. wouldn't it be better thru a resistor? (for example 1mohm is typical for esd grounding, otherwise some other suited values). what would be good is if then the thermocouple can be working and giving valid readings with that esd resistor in place. not to throw it off.
I have not been able to find a clear answer on that. There are various people saying direct earth is better while others say a 1 Meg resistor is better... Anyway, it's unclear if that resistor would influence tc measurements
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To T12 clones I add a fast diode like RS1M across the heating element to clamp -ve spikes. I have also seen a small cap across the heater to help with that. Would also add to a T3.
Laptop power MOSFET AO4413 (https://aosmd.com/sites/default/files/res/data_sheets/AO4413.pdf) max. VGS +/-25V and VDS -30V. With those R6 10k, R11 1k resistors gives drive of 21.8V and T12 clones instead use 2k (or 4k7)/1k for 16V or 20V drive.
Oh wait, T12 uses 16/20 V? Well, T245 use 24V.
This stations uses 16-24V for T12 https://oshwlab.com/wagiminator/y-attiny13-soldering-station-smd
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as i replied on other thread, i have tested my aixun t3a (as t245) all the way from 24v down to 15.25v. and it can solder in this whole range. at 15.25v seems some exact cut-off threshold the mcu controller switches off.
perhaps soldering performance is something degraded either when:
a) the voltage get less than about 20v
or
b) the current is limited to 5a (because t3a can go up to 8 or 10a).
or
c) when both limiting current and voltage together are constrained.
what i observed myself was in particular testing for 5a 20v limit (on bench psu). was that it affected the loading and cycling on/off. that it would 'stall'. like an aircraft stalls in the air. then after a short pause pile on the load again. so that is rather instead revealing the bring up algorithm. that expects more power on tap. where it runs out of gas. and then has to recover because it took too big a gulping of food. like the behaviour (btw this was running v1.26 firmware, so i cannot say on other firmwares), but it really just is not that concerning. it merely means that the thing is not really designed for too much power constrained situations. due to the software algorithm. and i did not observe any specific hardware issue when driving it under current and under voltage. it seemed consistent and predictable.
if i would recommend anything specific, would be that 5a is generally too low current limitation for powering this device. that 10a is much more ideal, neverminding the exact voltages. however the usb pd specs, gets you given to you 5a at 20v max. nothing more. and then (for usb-c) the power source is supposed to do an ocp triggered something unspecified above 5a. at least according to specs (as far as i understood everything of the usb pd specs, which is not very much).
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anyhow moving on, i have to say also: the fact that the tip is hard grounded is... indeed not ideal design choice. wouldn't it be better thru a resistor? (for example 1mohm is typical for esd grounding, otherwise some other suited values). what would be good is if then the thermocouple can be working and giving valid readings with that esd resistor in place. not to throw it off.
I have not been able to find a clear answer on that. There are various people saying direct earth is better while others say a 1 Meg resistor is better... Anyway, it's unclear if that resistor would influence tc measurements
well after reading the commentary about these matters over on other thread. then they seem to say there some very low resistance (less than 10 ohm, perhaps equal pair 1-2 ohm onto each side). and that there is other more complex circuitry to add around the tc amplifier input to the op amp. and such things then probably are best to experiment by copying solutions from those other brand stations. for example like the weller one (or the jbc one). this seems good approach to add back in from simpler basic aixun t3a circuit. but only those necessary minimum where it matters. not to over-complicate what is otherwise basic design. and to be clear what is the key thing. to become a recommended simplest and safe mod (to achieve the goal).
for example with the esd input protection (to gpio). where several guys here made all sorts of complex circuit. for the sake to protect 1 gpio pin on a dirt cheap chinese mcu that costs only $3 on aliexpress. that you do not even need and cap, just simply 1 single tvs diode onto the 1 gpio line. and you are basically done. (to then spent rest of your time onto a variety of other worthwhile mods, or just be done with all fixes much easier and sooner).
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Guys I found it!! It's the handle! Tonight I took apart the handle and bent the contacts as much as I could, so it made super tight contact with the cartridge. Then I turned on the station and I couldn't believe my ears. The handle was absolutely silent!
Here's the instructions and what I did:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1891746;image)
It all makes more sense now. The flimsy contact from the handle was adding parasitic inductance and resistance, and I bet that's what was causing the resonance and vibration we saw earlier. I just can't believe this mystery is solved!
The key takeaway for me from all this was that every segment of the high current path, from the positive supply to the mosfet, to the handle, to the tip and back to the supply should be bulletproof. Any flimsy connection in this chain will cause buzzing. Hope this helps folks who owns a buzzing Aixun.
Now time to buy a new p-channel mosfet in SOIC-8 package. Any particular suggestions?
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Just done on mine. No tape inside the handle here.
Difficult to open it, need to glue it after the intervention.
No more noise frome the handle. :-+
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Nice, but did this also solve the controller board and smps buzzing?
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Nice, but did this also solve the controller board and smps buzzing?
I don't know yet. I've removed all the make shift circuit, and now looking to place an order for a couple of Si4401DDY
mosfets. With this one, I'd have to increase R11 to 10K so as to not exceed the maximum 20V Gate-to-source limit. Other than that, it looks like a good, overkill part with pretty low on resistance. When it arrives, I'll be using some heavy gauge wires soldered on and will report back the results.
At this point I'm convinced though the buzzing is very much a mechanical problem, and that when thin wires or inadequate connection is made for the heater current, things just buzz. Remember back when I had an n-channel mosfet, hanging in the air powered by the bench supply? Nothing buzzed then. But when I moved over to Aixun supply it did. The way I had connected my circuit to the Aixun's supply was using the rear port, which also relied on the small cable with black and red wires between smps and control board. I actually think this cable is not adequate for the job. It says on it 22AWG, and the metals in the white female header don't have much of a bite. I'll solder on 16 gauge or thicker wires straight from the output of the smps to the power pin of the control board, and return the current from behind the circular connector back to the supply.
Just done on mine. No tape inside the handle here.
Difficult to open it, need to glue it after the intervention.
No more noise frome the handle. :-+
Fantastic, glad to hear it.
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Hey. I'm new here. Bought my Aixun T3A around 2 months ago, after reading quite a lot, especially on this forum;) everything was absolutely fine with the station, at least until yesterday, when it decided to crash. It seems to me that system just got frozen and every time I try to turn the station on all I get is constant beep and white screen. I tried plugging it to the computer to update software, or smthg, but Aixun app cannot recognize my station. Well, it doesn't even read like anything was plugged. Did anyone had similar problem? Any ideas for hard reset, or something like that?
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First you should write to the seller, and try to enforce the warranty repair.
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/viewtopic.php?p=20656000#20656000 (https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/viewtopic.php?p=20656000#20656000)
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Well, mine came straight from China, so I don't think there's an option for warranty repair. @mebel thanks for the link, it looks like that might be the same problem as I have
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@drsky sooo... I disassembled my t3a once again and once again can confirm that all three the smps, the controller board and the handle are buzzing. Even after "fixing" the handle, controller board and smps keep buzzig :-/O
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Mine also was, but there wasn't any problem with warranty. It depends from whom you have bought.
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@drsky sooo... I disassembled my t3a once again and once again can confirm that all three the smps, the controller board and the handle are buzzing. Even after "fixing" the handle, controller board and smps keep buzzig :-/O
To troubleshoot further, you'd have to go in with a scope and look around. At 24V power, the heater and thermocouple op-amp output signal etc.
I'm assuming the buzz is at the PWM freq. Their firmware could have a bug and double pulse or something odd to make it sonic. Any whistle could be the SMPS going unstable.
The handle socket is aluminum? :palm: Try put a magnet on the leafs if you ever go there again and see if it's steel.
It's too bad china avoids copper and nickel-plating at all costs, giving us el crapola connections. We can't pay $1 more for a step up in quality?
Reading the elektroda forum, there are few people unhappy about the reliability of these stations.
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@drsky sooo... I disassembled my t3a once again and once again can confirm that all three the smps, the controller board and the handle are buzzing. Even after "fixing" the handle, controller board and smps keep buzzig :-/O
To troubleshoot further, you'd have to go in with a scope and look around. At 24V power, the heater and thermocouple op-amp output signal etc.
Yes, I didn't invest too much time but I checked at least 24V, heater and PWM signal, just didn't upload it yet, but there you go:
- 24V at load during buzzing:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893033;image)
- heater signal:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893003;image)(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893009;image)(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893015;image)
- PWM signal at Q4-1:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893021;image)(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893027;image)
I'm assuming the buzz is at the PWM freq. Their firmware could have a bug and double pulse or something odd to make it sonic. Any whistle could be the SMPS going unstable.
Yep, that's what I mentioned earlier. High-frequency PWM is not the best way to control heating here...
The handle socket is aluminum? :palm: Try put a magnet on the leafs if you ever go there again and see if it's steel.
Didn't check it thoroughly, but to me it looks more like steel than aluminum. Anyone have a magnet to test it? Looks like I lost mine...
It's too bad china avoids copper and nickel-plating at all costs, giving us el crapola connections. We can't pay $1 more for a step up in quality?
Reading the elektroda forum, there are few people unhappy about the reliability of these stations.
Mine also was, but there wasn't any problem with warranty. It depends from whom you have bought.
Yeeeah, well.... no more warranty after my ESD modifications :'D Anyway, I doubt a new station would be *much* different. Did you listen closely when heating > 300° ? Maybe buzzing just is a bit quieter but I doubt it's gone completely.
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@drsky sooo... I disassembled my t3a once again and once again can confirm that all three the smps, the controller board and the handle are buzzing. Even after "fixing" the handle, controller board and smps keep buzzig :-/O
Hmm, that's at least one third of the mystery solved. But it seems the story doesn't end here.
- heater signal:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893003;image)(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893009;image)(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1893015;image)
What are those little spikes you are getting on the falling edge of PWM? I don't remember seeing those on mine. Sucks I can't probe mine again until next week.
Did you listen closely when heating > 300° ? Maybe buzzing just is a bit quieter but I doubt it's gone completely.
I remember testing at different temperatures from 280 to 400, the buzzing doesn't improve or change much at all.
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Looks suspiciously like EFT, but of much lower amplitude. Could be stray inductance bouncing against a diode.
I didn't catch where this was probed or how, but if it's the heater switch transistor, it would figure that the top is sloped with a PSU-related time constant as it bogs down under heavy load (the ~8A) and either throttles up during the pulse, or it's droop across PS capacitors' ESR; turn-off is incredibly slow compared to turn-on, but nonetheless it seems it's bouncing on what would otherwise be flyback.
Oh, or maybe it is the PSU. There's possibly the same blips during the pulse, though more balanced looking; dampened from the heavy load present perhaps? Then the pulses decaying would be the PSU throttling back down.
6 pulses / 104us (that's 104us/div, right? huh...) sounds like a plausible PSU frequency.
Tim
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Thanks for takling the time to get some scope traces.
I can see the HF pulses are around 66kHz so an artifact from the SMPS and/or scope grounding.
- PWM signal at Q4-1: RigolDS15
That looks terrible, something wrong with the MCU PWM output. After it's finished the pulse to mosfet driver Q4-B it looks like the output pin is wrongly changed to floating? It shouldn't cause a problem but it shows sloppy coding. Who thinks that heater pulse of 0.05msec is good for anything too lol.
R6 10k is too big and the slow mosfet turn off. Note you want the gate driven to it's max. in the event you run this off batteries and have lower VCC say 16-19V.
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The handle socket is aluminum? :palm: Try put a magnet on the leafs if you ever go there again and see if it's steel.
It's too bad china avoids copper and nickel-plating at all costs, giving us el crapola connections. We can't pay $1 more for a step up in quality?
Took apart the handle one more time and put a hard drive magnet right by the contact. No attraction at all. Looks and feels like Aluminium.
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Guys I found it!! It's the handle!
haha well of course it was fairly likely going to be the handle, and principally because you did well to test bare cartridge and then include mention of that in the earlier report. thanks for these detailed new examinations. it is very much interesting matters and as another owner of same product. to know of these possible issues occuring is indeed very helpful. good day my friend
:-+
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Oh, or maybe it is the PSU. There's possibly the same blips during the pulse, though more balanced looking; dampened from the heavy load present perhaps? Then the pulses decaying would be the PSU throttling back down.
6 pulses / 104us (that's 104us/div, right? huh...) sounds like a plausible PSU frequency.
Ok @c0d3z3r0 - this if you try remove SMPS from the whole circuit here. And instead power the controller board front panel from DC lab or bench PSU. At appropriate voltage with a high current alternative power source if you have any?
And then see if and remaining buzzing can be due to poor firmware (floating the GPIO)? After elimination of PSU component.
Also: sorry but i did not track which exact firmware version you are running now? (with these buzzing issues?). But if you can please say. For example I am stuck on v1.26 firmwares here (because why ever upgrade past the v1.26? --> does not seem to offer anything important "enough" was ever added with thee T245 handles after the v1.26?)
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Looks suspiciously like EFT, but of much lower amplitude. Could be stray inductance bouncing against a diode.
Is this anything that needs or can be fixed?
Oh, or maybe it is the PSU. There's possibly the same blips during the pulse, though more balanced looking; dampened from the heavy load present perhaps? Then the pulses decaying would be the PSU throttling back down.
I guess the PSU is indeed overloaded (assuming they really limited it to 120W): 7.5A * 22.5V = 168.75 W. However, I am unsure about the limit because I a) don't know the winding count of the transformer and b) don't have a eletronic load to test.
Check out this post for PSU details, maybe you have an idea? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/)
6 pulses / 104us (that's 104us/div, right? huh...) sounds like a plausible PSU frequency.
Correct, 104us/div. The PSU is swichting at 72.5kHz. Check out this post for PSU details: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/)
I didn't catch where this was probed or how, but if it's the heater switch transistor,
Well, the "where" can be answered: Q4-1 (pin 1), heater transistor. See schematics https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf (https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf)
But what do you mean with "how"?
I can see the HF pulses are around 66kHz so an artifact from the SMPS and/or scope grounding.
Just an artifact that we can ignore, right?
Oh well, maybe the PSU was way to close to the scope... https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/smps-killed-my-radio-reception.373045/page-2 (https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/smps-killed-my-radio-reception.373045/page-2)
- PWM signal at Q4-1: RigolDS15
That looks terrible, something wrong with the MCU PWM output. After it's finished the pulse to mosfet driver Q4-B it looks like the output pin is wrongly changed to floating? It shouldn't cause a problem but it shows sloppy coding. Who thinks that heater pulse of 0.05msec is good for anything too lol.
See, that's what I meant. I don't think their timings (and frequency) make any sense :D
R6 10k is too big and the slow mosfet turn off. Note you want the gate driven to it's max. in the event you run this off batteries and have lower VCC say 16-19V.
I have too little experience with correct values for the MOSFET - what would be right here, then? Are 10k ok for 24V but just not for lower voltages?
Guys I found it!! It's the handle!
haha well of course it was fairly likely going to be the handle
And still the problems probably wouldn't occur if they didn't use such weird heater timings/freq. Remember, control board and SMPS are still buzzing (at least for me). IMO the handle noise is just a (another) symptom.
Ok @c0d3z3r0 - this if you try remove SMPS from the whole circuit here. And instead power the controller board front panel from DC lab or bench PSU. At appropriate voltage with a high current alternative power source if you have any?
And then see if and remaining buzzing can be due to poor firmware (floating the GPIO)? After elimination of PSU component.
Unfortunately, I have no PSU with 7.5A. Maximum I can work with is 6A. I can give it a try but I guess this doesn't really help. Maybe lowering the voltage helps...
Also: sorry but i did not track which exact firmware version you are running now? (with these buzzing issues?). But if you can please say. For example I am stuck on v1.26 firmwares here (because why ever upgrade past the v1.26? --> does not seem to offer anything important "enough" was ever added with thee T245 handles after the v1.26?)
v1.26 here because it works for me and I don't want to do any experiments with chinese "bugfixing" ::)
The handle socket is aluminum? :palm: Try put a magnet on the leafs if you ever go there again and see if it's steel.
It's too bad china avoids copper and nickel-plating at all costs, giving us el crapola connections. We can't pay $1 more for a step up in quality?
Took apart the handle one more time and put a hard drive magnet right by the contact. No attraction at all. Looks and feels like Aluminium.
Ouch. Thanks for testing!
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Unfortunately, I have no PSU with 7.5A. Maximum I can work with is 6A. I can give it a try but I guess this doesn't really help. Maybe lowering the voltage helps...
Haha yes (I sadly suspected - because you would have tried by now already). So I don't wish to put you out of your way here, because sourcing alternate PSU can be a distraction / hassles. But to think (how to obtain more easy) something of 19-24v supply at high amperage (for example 10a). Well...
* Can you disconnect / remove 2x of lead acid from any vehicles, UPS, house alarm, etc?
* Because (of course) 2x 12v = 24v at high currents (lead acid). And 0 noise or anything bat to resonate introduced from supply.
So if not 2 regular cars, then any other such devices you can access, that is smaller 12v lead-acid. A scooter, or something else. Or maybe an rc type packs, or whatever else you have for transportation, or UPS also (uses small lead acids). Any like those.
Ok so not - then of course maybe more moderns LiPo packs perhaps could be. If not power tools than other random stuff.
Ok so not anything batteries powered - then the high current laptop power brick (of a quality brands, like Dell or HP, Lenovo). It can be high enough currents (some of) for 180w for a gaming laptop. Now it would be only 19v. But that is still high enough to power aixun t3a. And mainly here you don't have because many laptops are lower current, like 65w or 100w. And then the power bricks are too-low current. Like 4a or 6a.
I am out of ideas for you after this then. Since it's just easier to eliminate SMPS from circuit for further testing. To take the lowest hanging fruit. And without risking mains probing, or safety issues, for example if you do not have relevent safety equipments like isolating transformer (and it to be of high enough watts), differential probes etc... To then debug same original aixun t3a SMPS live and in-circuit.
So clearly yes, higher current 24v supply. It can be a useful help here. Because other users (who isn't you) has not such same buzzing issues to access such same example of such faulted buzzing device.
But here's another question: was it always buzzing this ways? And/or did you think yet to service the handle? Because by all accounts it kindda seems like (what with aluminium contacts). That during the device operations lifetime. We are changing tips about. The more tip changes accumulates, the more these aluminium contacts (that is supported by plastic channels). That it can get bent out of original shapes eventually. After so much usage. And then need "servicing" as drsky so helpful, to provide those recent photo guide.
I would not dismiss handle servicing! (it's really only more of a case of to delay until WHEN, rather than if at all). At some point... we all probably are going to face question whether to open handle. Give those same servicing / maintenance to the contact points.
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Short: Nope, I had all these ideas as well but I have nothing that fits. :-// I will test with what I have later and let's see how it goes.
But here's another question: was it always buzzing this ways? And/or did you think yet to service the handle?
Yes it was always buzzing the same from the beginning. And... how often do I need to emphasize that even with the fixed handle (not buzzing anymore), the controller and SMPS still buzz?
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So, I got my ancient Voltcraft bench supply from the cellar. Event though the current limit triggered and voltage went down to 22V, it somehow "worked".
Surprise, surprise, the controller board is still buzzing. When I loosen the handle contacts again, it starts to buzz as well again.
So, I think I have enough evidence to believe this is neither a SMPS nor a handle issue and both are just a symptom of the whole problem: weird timing / frequency combined with bad driving of the MOSFET.
The SMPS might not be optimal and the handle has this contact issue but both are not the root cause of the buzzing problem.
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Yes it looks like bad firmware 1.34 generating goofy PWM as the main cause of the audible noise.
I have seen aluminum connections make noise as far as small arcing due to the poor connection. I thought a steel socket could do it as well if the magnetic forces caused vibration.
For twice the price of a T12 clone station, I don't see the value and the design is still unpolished.
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I guess the PSU is indeed overloaded (assuming they really limited it to 120W): 7.5A * 22.5V = 168.75 W. However, I am unsure about the limit because I a) don't know the winding count of the transformer and b) don't have a eletronic load to test.
Check out this post for PSU details, maybe you have an idea? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/)
I'm not sure that's the post you meant to link:
Oh well, yes, actually any sort of regularly turning power on/off is in fact "PWM". What I mean is that Aixun uses a PWM signal that is again turned on/off regularly, so low-freq PWM on a high-freq PWM signal.
EDIT2: Checking the output of the Unisolder with an oscilloscope for comparison could help... anyone?
EDIT3: Hmm... had a quick look, I might been wrong... maybe their PID algorithm is just weird or they use bad or non-optimal parameters. I wasn't able to full reverse-engineer it, yet
I'm familiar with posts below here as I noticed the correlation with the EE.SE post. PSU hasn't been discussed since, so I don't have a clue.
It seems to be pretty fast, anyway; responding within 100us is alright.
In fact, if it is indeed ramping up and down during and after the pulse, it sounds like pole-zero compensation, which means for short transients, the supply Zo is resistive. That is, for frequencies in the flat gain region above the zero, loop gain is fixed, i.e. some step change in Vo causes a proportional step change in converter input current, and thus output current, and so we expect some resistive delta Vo / delta Io for frequencies in this range, or pulses of comparable duration.
I'm assuming it's a basic TL431 regulated flyback.
Well, the "where" can be answered: Q4-1 (pin 1), heater transistor. See schematics https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf (https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf)
But what do you mean with "how"?
I don't know the board layout, I don't know how inductive it is, or what the CM noise might be like, what the probe ground clip looks like (length, orientation and where it's connected).
A key point for the control, given there's only one ground return wire in the handle, will be common mode due to cable inductance and resistance. Likely both are substantial. Hopefully it's either well enough filtered to avoid such errors, or sampled exclusive of the heating pulse; but the long time constant on the thermocouple amplifier might suggest otherwise. Another point in favor, on ramp-up it still makes noise, i.e. it doesn't drive at 100% duty.
Sampling too soon could easily be a cause of filtering/slow switching causing it to misread or error out. In other words, it depends on its hard switching as a design assumption.
Which further invalidates my EE.SE answer, but such information was never provided in the background to it (or maybe still isn't known at all, to any certainty that is, depending on how deeply the control has been probed, or if indeed the firmware has been extracted or decompiled). I probably delete the answer anyway, because anyone searching on the product issue will bring with them all the assumptions about the product itself, assumptions I never had.
Oh, did I ever link that? It was here...
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/682699/pwm-circuit-that-switches-mosfet-with-soft-edges (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/682699/pwm-circuit-that-switches-mosfet-with-soft-edges)
I suppose it's just as well that it's closed, but Google will still find it.
Just an artifact that we can ignore, right?
Oh well, maybe the PSU was way to close to the scope... https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/smps-killed-my-radio-reception.373045/page-2 (https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/smps-killed-my-radio-reception.373045/page-2)
Well... maybe. I suppose it's not a functional problem at least. Maybe it's still a radiated or conducted issue. I wouldn't be surprised if it's untested.
It's certainly an ESD problem, not so much in terms of ESD per se, but the considerably lower impedance of the ground-return path, plus several volts of switching transients, isn't going to play well with anything that's grounded and also has diode junctions or whatever in it. You shouldn't be soldering on a plugged-in circuit anyway, but this is a likely assumption many will make regardless, and I think has already been noted in this or the other thread.
Easiest resolution would be changing to 24VAC (lower dI/dt, and, use whole-cycle switching), and run an independent ground wire (or combine it with the thermocouple but NOT the heater current). (Since we're talking response times of 100s ms, residual 50/60Hz can be notched out to further improve performance.) But, that's easy only on the conceptual design level. Far easier on a finished unit, considering ones' required labor input, to dump it in the trash and buy a better one... but y'all probably knew that already.
Put another way: you're very quickly running out of simple solutions (like fixing components or changing around filtering) that don't also involve updating the firmware.
The handle socket is aluminum? :palm: Try put a magnet on the leafs if you ever go there again and see if it's steel.
It's too bad china avoids copper and nickel-plating at all costs, giving us el crapola connections. We can't pay $1 more for a step up in quality?
Took apart the handle one more time and put a hard drive magnet right by the contact. No attraction at all. Looks and feels like Aluminium.
Ouch. Thanks for testing!
Eek. All the more reason to throw it out. I don't see any way a loose (well, sprung, give or take how tight it stays) aluminum contact handles, any current at all really, let alone the pulses here. :scared:
Tim
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Eek. All the more reason to throw it out. I don't see any way a loose (well, sprung, give or take how tight it stays) aluminum contact handles, any current at all really, let alone the pulses here. :scared:
yeah clearly it's a too low cost of design handle. that is not desirable choices for long term usage. after wearing enough tip changes. or just you know, if it gets bent out of shape unduely, with a rought handling.
for example if somebody takes the new handle. and plays with it in their hands like a toy, and tries to bend the whole main handle thing. then the moulded plastics will flex enough to a point to then deform the alu contacts inside within the channels. and this will mess it up.
there's a few solutions. probably easiest is just buy a genuine jbc original t245 handle. and you know, check it's same wiring to cartridge. and replace the whole handle for however much they cost. perhaps 60-80 dollars. and this requires probably some little rewire, like replace the official jbc hirose plug with the 5 pin gx12-5 aviation connector style.
or if not that, then a more reputable chinese handle at least. for example i have such other chinese type handle sitting in my draw. which was purchased before even aixun t3a existed, and it cost something about $35.
wheras if you look at the purchase options for t3a packages, there is versions with and without such blue handle, at different price points. so perhaps this exact thing aixun bundles is worth something half of that. maybe $17 lets throw as an example. at least clearly you should not wish to purchase these handles anymore. even if buying the aixun base unit. then save that few dollars towards discount a proper jbc handle...
but lets say you want to open these aixun handle up and do some servicing. then after re-bending the aluminum contacts. we might consider to insert some extra metal shims. and on both sides of the channels. on the cartridge touching side. then some better shim of copper or something that is better for the electrical contacting.
optionally maybe it can benefit a speay contact cleaner too? what do they call it? electrolytic lubricants or something for greasing potentiometers? but perhaps that can upset things here?
ok but for structural mechanical reinforcement. then another shim onto the other side of the plastic channels. to be stainless steel. some more rigid metal. that is going to apply a pressure and also spring back to shape. which the aluminium contactor does not want to do.
so with those shims approach, might improve. that is if you cannot replace entirely the aluminium contacts. and want a low effort. and not spend monies. and have to open the handle anyhows.
but of course better solution will be an official jbc handle. people have said this before - they really are such a nice quality and worth paying for. the $60-$80. is best approach.
as to base unit, those are different matters. different set of considerations. not to conflate 1 for the other.
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I guess the PSU is indeed overloaded (assuming they really limited it to 120W): 7.5A * 22.5V = 168.75 W. However, I am unsure about the limit because I a) don't know the winding count of the transformer and b) don't have a eletronic load to test.
Check out this post for PSU details, maybe you have an idea? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/925/)
I'm not sure that's the post you meant to link:
Meh. No, that's the right one: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5089174/#msg5089174 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5089174/#msg5089174)
I'm assuming it's a basic TL431 regulated flyback.
Yes
Easiest resolution would be changing to 24VAC (lower dI/dt, and, use whole-cycle switching)
Yep, I said this earlier in this thread, AC would be better also bc it would make correct earthing way easier and wouldn't interfere with tc measurements... DC creates all sorts of problems :/
Put another way: you're very quickly running out of simple solutions (like fixing components or changing around filtering) that don't also involve updating the firmware.
Patching the fw is not a real problem. I've done it already for replacing the display :D https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/tree/master/patch (https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/tree/master/patch)
Yes it looks like bad firmware 1.34 generating goofy PWM as the main cause of the audible noise.
V1.26 here ;)
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Can someone please identify the round 5pin soldering iron plug for me? I have some hot tweezers coming and I understand I might need to re-wire the plug so I wanted to source one but the ones I find are bigger. If someone had a link or a code that would help a lot!
Thanks!
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Can someone please identify the round 5pin soldering iron plug for me? I have some hot tweezers coming and I understand I might need to re-wire the plug so I wanted to source one but the ones I find are bigger. If someone had a link or a code that would help a lot!
Thanks!
GX12-5
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So, I think I have enough evidence to believe this is neither a SMPS nor a handle issue and both are just a symptom of the whole problem: weird timing / frequency combined with bad driving of the MOSFET.
What if you buffer the output of Q4 with a Schmitt trigger and design your own gate drive circuit? I really don't like the look of that floating Q4 voltage either, I'll probably try this myself as soon as my mosfets arrive. You did mention putting together an Arduino circuit or an arbgen to test if PWMing can be done at all without buzz. That'd be a really useful experiment. If you can manage to design a buzz-free high power PWM circuit, you can "walk backwards" from that towards the Aixun to pinpoint what they are doing wrong.
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You did mention putting together an Arduino circuit or an arbgen to test if PWMing can be done at all without buzz. That'd be a really useful experiment. If you can manage to design a buzz-free high power PWM circuit, you can "walk backwards" from that towards the Aixun to pinpoint what they are doing wrong.
Yep, I still have that plan, but I'm pretty busy atm
What if you buffer the output of Q4 with a Schmitt trigger and design your own gate drive circuit? I really don't like the look of that floating Q4 voltage either,
I'm going to check what the firmware is doing. Maybe patching that is enough. Maybe adding a pull-up is enough? Could be done in hardware as well ofc
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Heater GPIO init in firmware v1.26:
rcu_periph_clock_enable(RCU_GPIOA);
gpio_init((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, GPIO_MODE_OUT_PP, GPIO_OSPEED_50MHZ, PA8_HEATER);
Heater function:
void __fastcall set_heater_timer(int cnt_of_50us)
{
__int16 cnt_50us_0; // r4
cnt_50us_0 = cnt_of_50us;
if ( cnt_of_50us )
{
gpio_bit_set((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, PA8_HEATER);
timer_autoreload_value_config((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0, 50 * cnt_50us_0);
timer_enable((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
else
{
gpio_bit_reset((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, PA8_HEATER);
timer_disable(&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
}
Soooo, why the heck does Q4-1 look that weird on the scope when the GPIO is push-pull?! :-BROKE
-
Soooo, why the heck does Q4-1 look that weird on the scope when the GPIO is push-pull?! :-BROKE
Well, if the GPIO is actually broken on the mcu, is it possible to measure onto that pin, and compare readings to other GPIO pins?
(perhaps to lift up a single pin on the QSFP, this is possible justification?)
Because isn't the GPIOs are a bit meh on these GD32 silicon. Although i forget now exactly the specs that somebody else found out. Some written paragraph in the data sheet somewhere gives a supposed data FWIW (although not sure I myself would trust as such).
-
I'd expect push-pull. With the two 300Ω base resistors, about 8mA. Not sure what BJT they are using, it might have a problem. Newer T12 V3.3 use a mosfet 2N7002 instead.
You can troubleshoot or verify port firmware issues by scoping the MCU heater output pin and then add a 1kΩ pullup or pull down and look at the waveform.
That can reveal if the port config is getting corrupted or it goes open-drain etc.
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I'd expect push-pull. With the two 300Ω base resistors, about 8mA. Not sure what BJT they are using, it might have a problem. Newer T12 V3.3 use a mosfet 2N7002 instead.
You can troubleshoot or verify port firmware issues by scoping the MCU heater output pin and then add a 1kΩ pullup or pull down and look at the waveform.
That can reveal if the port config is getting corrupted or it goes open-drain etc.
Hm, GD32F303 datasheet says +/- 25mA for IOs.
Well, the push signal (1) works at least. If that would be broken completely, it wouldn't work at all, right? So, either the pull signal (0) is broken or there is a stuck PU.
I had a similiar problem on a Intel i7 SoC where one I2C line (hm, or I2S) for the audio codec broke for unknown reasons (maybe ESD, maybe manufacturing fault).
It had a stuck pull-up breaking any communication because the pull/PD was not able to pull down to 0V. I fixed it with a 10k external pull-down.
The signal still looks a bit weird but audio on my laptop works fine again \o/
I guess I will to desolder that transistor Q4 or better R14 and test that GPIO through SWD first...
-
Ouch! R14, R15 are 3,3k, not 330! Fixed in the schematics. https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/schematics/aixun_t3a.pdf
-
Oh. R14, R15 3k3 gives 0.78mA MCU load and 0.56mA base current. Q4 sees around 22mA spike switching on, due to the mosfet capacitance. Q4 seen as S8050 "J3Y" or "G1" MMBT5551.
Still no idea of why the Q4 NPN base waveform looks so bad. Even if the pin tri-states the transistor turns off fine due to R15 across the E-B.
edit: I would scope the MCU output pin or at the resistor R14 ahead of Q4-B. Maybe they are trying to turn off the mosfet slow and doing a bit of PWM there.
-
Heater GPIO init in firmware v1.26:
rcu_periph_clock_enable(RCU_GPIOA);
gpio_init((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, GPIO_MODE_OUT_PP, GPIO_OSPEED_50MHZ, PA8_HEATER);
Heater function:
void __fastcall set_heater_timer(int cnt_of_50us)
{
__int16 cnt_50us_0; // r4
cnt_50us_0 = cnt_of_50us;
if ( cnt_of_50us )
{
gpio_bit_set((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, PA8_HEATER);
timer_autoreload_value_config((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0, 50 * cnt_50us_0);
timer_enable((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
else
{
gpio_bit_reset((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, PA8_HEATER);
timer_disable(&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
}
Where are you getting this source code? Is the firmware code for let's say v1.33 available somewhere?
-
Heater GPIO init in firmware v1.26:
rcu_periph_clock_enable(RCU_GPIOA);
gpio_init((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, GPIO_MODE_OUT_PP, GPIO_OSPEED_50MHZ, PA8_HEATER);
Heater function:
void __fastcall set_heater_timer(int cnt_of_50us)
{
__int16 cnt_50us_0; // r4
cnt_50us_0 = cnt_of_50us;
if ( cnt_of_50us )
{
gpio_bit_set((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, PA8_HEATER);
timer_autoreload_value_config((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0, 50 * cnt_50us_0);
timer_enable((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
else
{
gpio_bit_reset((uint32_t)&GPIOA_CTL0, PA8_HEATER);
timer_disable(&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
}
Casual glance and I'm unfamiliar with the MCU - Why is the port control register passed into the bit set/reset routine, not the actual port?
Giving this (*3 lines changed):
rcu_periph_clock_enable(RCU_GPIOA);
gpio_init(GPIOA, GPIO_MODE_OUT_PP, GPIO_OSPEED_50MHZ, PA8_HEATER); //*
Heater function:
void __fastcall set_heater_timer(int cnt_of_50us)
{
__int16 cnt_50us_0; // r4
cnt_50us_0 = cnt_of_50us;
if ( cnt_of_50us )
{
gpio_bit_set(GPIOA, PA8_HEATER); //*
timer_autoreload_value_config((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0, 50 * cnt_50us_0);
timer_enable((uint32_t)&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
else
{
gpio_bit_reset(GPIOA, PA8_HEATER); //*
timer_disable(&TIMER0_CTL0);
}
}
-
Where are you getting this source code? Is the firmware code for let's say v1.33 available somewhere?
Reverse engineered (IDA Pro incl. decompiler)
-
Casual glance and I'm unfamiliar with the MCU - Why is the port control register passed into the bit set/reset routine, not the actual port?
It's exactly the same, bc GPIOA is just a macro that results in GPIOA_CTL0 register:
GD32F30x_standard_peripheral/Include/gd32f30x_gpio.h:#define GPIOA (GPIO_BASE + 0x00000000U)
-
Soldering tweezers for the T3A!
@3DBeerGoggles
Shall I assume you received something a bit less wonky than I have from Handskit? :D
-
Oh. R14, R15 3k3 gives 0.78mA MCU load and 0.56mA base current. Q4 sees around 22mA spike switching on, due to the mosfet capacitance. Q4 seen as S8050 "J3Y" or "G1" MMBT5551.
Still no idea of why the Q4 NPN base waveform looks so bad. Even if the pin tri-states the transistor turns off fine due to R15 across the E-B.
edit: I would scope the MCU output pin or at the resistor R14 ahead of Q4-B. Maybe they are trying to turn off the mosfet slow and doing a bit of PWM there.
Doesn't look like intentional PWM there in the code. It's just turning off the heater pin. I will do more measurements at the weekend
-
Yeah mine were pretty straight - if you haven't already, maybe try reseating the heating elements in case one is just in the holder crooked but yeah... aside from that it'd be time to disassemble the tweezers and see if you can't shim it straight.
-
Yeah mine were pretty straight - if you haven't already, maybe try reseating the heating elements in case one is just in the holder crooked
Thanks!
How is that element attached to the holder? I can twist them but they don't seem to move in and out.
-
Yeah mine were pretty straight - if you haven't already, maybe try reseating the heating elements in case one is just in the holder crooked
Thanks!
How is that element attached to the holder? I can twist them but they don't seem to move in and out.
The movable "jaws" just have a built-in set of "teeth" that hold onto the ridge on the heating element. Removal is by gently twisting and pulling at the same time until it pops past it
-
The movable "jaws" just have a built-in set of "teeth" that hold onto the ridge on the heating element. Removal is by gently twisting and pulling at the same time until it pops past it
Thanks. Mine are kept in place by friction if I see that right. Anyways yes, I can fiddle them around and "align" them.
Can I please check with you what needs to be done about wiring? I've read your post and the one you refer to but I am not 100% sure. My cable from the station has 3 wires, they go the the contacts of the heating elements.
I guess this is why I bought a spare plug, do I need to chop off the moulded one and add the resistor in there between pin 3 and 4? Then I leave everything as is - but get rid of the mercury switch?
Mercury in the handle. Mindblowing. :D
Thank you!
-
Hi - reposting from my reddit reply so it's here for others too:
> I've heard the cable varies on these tweezers. In my case, there was an extra wire hiding inside the cable (it was trimmed flush with the outer jacket) that I recall making use of - so I was able to get away with stuffing the 10K resistor inside the tweezer housing instead of replacing the molded connector BUT I do know other people had to fit a separate connector to add the resistor (The 10K Identifies to the station that it's a T12 iron)
That said, it sounds like you're on the right track. The only thing I would double check is exactly what left/middle/right connectors actually connect to on the cartridge. I can't remember if it was identical to the T12 holder Aixun uses or if the order of the connections is different. (IE make sure the "left hand" connection in the diagram goes to the lower contact).
You can see where on the cartridge each contact grabs so you should be able to double check that without it being a big problem.
So (with mind that the color code in the Hanskit cable is likely different, so double check that too):
pin 1 - NC
pin 2 and 5 - [Lower band on the cartridge]
pin 3 - to pin 4 via 10K resistor
pin 4 - [middle contact AND upper contact on the cartridge]
-
So after lots of experiments and trial and errors these past two days, I've found a solution that attenuates the buzzing to completely inaudible. Here's what happened.
Last time I cooked up the poor mosfet, so I ordered a few extra mosfets, including a replacement (SI4401DDY), and also the SD03C-7 ESD diode to protect the input for detecting when handle is in the cradle. And since this mosfet only tolerates 20V G-S, I changed R11 and R6 to both 3.3k. After that I added the diode as recommended by floobydust (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-t3a-misbehaving-on-grounded-pcbs/msg5103978/#msg5103978 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-t3a-misbehaving-on-grounded-pcbs/msg5103978/#msg5103978)), and soldered 16 guage wires directly to the contacts of the main pcb:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1900446;image)
Here's a summary of my initial findings:
- Trying a different mosfet (IRF5210) had no effect
- Slowing the switching edges heated up the mosfet, but didn't reduce the buzzing
- There was no weird artifact on the heater waveform, it was a normal looking pwm with no spikes.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1900434;image)
- Buffering the output of Q4 has no effect.
-Replacing D8 with a 10 ohm resistor and adding a 100u cap from Vin to ground (to decouple the return paths) reduced the buzzing on the control board but the supply was still buzzing
- I measured significant droop on the power supply (3V peak-to-peak ac) in sync with the pulses
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1900428;image)
Then I thought maybe it makes sense to provide a low impedance energy reservoir for the big gulps of current in those fast PWM spikes. So I put a RC filter consisting of 0.1 ohm + 4.7mF between the power supply and the control board:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1900440;image)
Here came the surprise. The buzzing disappeared! I put my ear really close to the supply, being careful not to get electrocuted by the live board, and could almost hear very close by, but it was no longer loud. I looked around in the parts bin and sadly didn't have many big caps to try. I found two more 1mF caps, and added those in parallel. It became pretty much inaudible at that point! So I soldered the caps to a piece of prototype board and taped it on the empty space on the power supply:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1900416;image)
I still don't fully understand why this mitigated the buzzing. Maybe someone can explain to us. But it looks promising and may be just the solution to eliminate the buzz for good. I wonder if you can just wack a 10mF on the back of the Aixun using the DC jack without needing to even open it up or remove the smps. Just have to be careful because that big cap will essentially short the supply while it's trying to start up.
So I'm happy with this as it is. I can't hear it anymore at all. I'm thinking just to hot glue the protoboard and close this chapter. As luck would have it, the replacement for the glass screen has just arrived
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1900422;image)
though I won't glue it on just yet.
-
I still don't fully understand why this mitigated the buzzing. Maybe someone can explain to us. But it looks promising and may be just the solution to eliminate the buzz for good. I wonder if you can just wack a 10mF on the back of the Aixun using the DC jack without needing to even open it up or remove the smps...
Very quick and simplez question regarding all this buzzing reports...
For you drsky (or other guys here, cz0...). Did you guys already do the SMPS full electrolytic caps replacement set? It's like the 5 main caps that you order them (from digikey etc). And replace with one of the 3-4 quality brands, and then it still was buzzing afterwards, after doing that replacement set?
Because I didn't actually even start using my aixun at all, until immediately replacing those things. So if you did replace them already. Then indeed I think you hit some good and quite sensible mod here. Which seems quite worth considering.
However if nobody who buzzes bothered replace the existing caps then... well kindda interesting to know or find out if buzzing got reduced with the quality caps. Or had nothing, no effect at all (and was still same buzz).
-
- Trying a different mosfet (IRF5210) had no effect
Good to know!
- Slowing the switching edges heated up the mosfet, but didn't reduce the buzzing
I guess this is expected, bc the time with higher resistance is increased
- There was no weird artifact on the heater waveform, it was a normal looking pwm with no spikes.
Where exactly did you measure? I'll retry then
-Replacing D8 with a 10 ohm resistor and adding a 100u cap from Vin to ground (to decouple the return paths) reduced the buzzing on the control board but the supply was still buzzing
Be careful with D8! It protects your USB port from shorting by the PSU caps when you connect USB but not mains. Ok for testing, but D8 should be added again. Better cut the trace and add your resistor there.
- I measured significant droop on the power supply (3V peak-to-peak ac) in sync with the pulses
Yep, that's what we saw on my measurements as well. So at least that is consistent. That PSU is overloaded, which can be solved by either adding huge caps like you did or by modifying the PSU itself. The latter will be difficult since we don't really know the specs of the transformer. If the PSU really is limited to 200W and the heater draws more than that, the PSU PWM controller limits voltage. That is probably what we see here.
Then I thought maybe it makes sense to provide a low impedance energy reservoir for the big gulps of current in those fast PWM spikes. So I put a RC filter consisting of 0.1 ohm + 4.7mF between the power supply and the control board:
It would be good to know if that RC filter can be left out, when only adding your later changes (caps on the PSU).
Just have to be careful because that big cap will essentially short the supply while it's trying to start up.
Pretty sure. Something like this might do the job:
[attach=1]
So I'm happy with this as it is. I can't hear it anymore at all. I'm thinking just to hot glue the protoboard and close this chapter. As luck would have it, the replacement for the glass screen has just arrived
though I won't glue it on just yet.
If that new glass has glue applied already, I recommend removing it (it's just double sided tape) and only use some small pieces of double sided tape just in case you need to open it again later.
-
Where exactly did you measure?
I measured it right across the diode behind the circular connector, with ground alligator on the anode and the probe clip attached to the cathode.
Be careful with D8! It protects your USB port from shorting by the PSU caps
Sure, I put it back anyway.
Something like this might do the job:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=285108.0;attach=1900506;image)
Hmm, if you put a diode on top of the cap like that, would that diode ever conduct? I suppose you want one with very low forward voltage. Have you tried it? Since you said your unit is also buzzing, I'm curious to know whether this mod works in your case.
-
Did you guys already do the SMPS full electrolytic caps replacement set? It's like the 5 main caps that you order them (from digikey etc). And replace with one of the 3-4 quality brands, and then it still was buzzing afterwards, after doing that replacement set?
I haven't, but really maybe I should have. But is it worth to spend more and more time and money on this? I'm 110 + 20 in, and probably 500 worth of my time! Hard to justify, really, other than being a learning experience, learning electronics, and learning to stick with genuine stuff :D
We're recapping a supply whose designers were so cheap they took out basic heatsinks and glued the damn thing to the case. Isn't it smarter to just buy a meanwell supply? Big named brand caps aren't so cheap. Intuitively, I think recapping this supply is like putting lipstick on a pig. It's so low quality, it's not even worth it. And I remember when I was testing last night, even a big linear bench supply was buzzing. I just doubt it will do much of anything.
-
ah yes because earlier versions were not glued into the case (as mine). but that aside doing the recapping was itself not actually very hard at all, and would have cost something low in parts, maybe only $5-7 (out of a digikey order for other stuff).
i don't disagree however the viewpoint it shouldn't happen, and i would be interested to hear if some guys finds entire replacement smps module. that can actually be fitted well enough (and perform well enough) into the device.
but i never regarded as high as meanwell needing such best possible quality, for this soldering job. rather not the worst quality either. but somewhere inbetween that is plenty good enough. and with the good caps,
actually come to think of it: the whole reasoning for why to replace these smps caps to begin with, it was because somebody here had identified what with the constant dumping of currents. that they would be getting worked pretty hard, and then some people took that to mean: well replace it sooner or later, and others could not be bothered and said they have general policy to replace caps only as needed. [edit] except for the fact that most other random equipment probably does not works caps anywhere as hard as this does. so perhaps worth a more careful consideration, such rules.
personally i already knew i definately wanted to do other types of mods.so it was like a 0 extra added effort, and not any bother whatsoever, to replace (5) caps. since having to open all up anyways.
and it also just seemed like with the amount of current to constantly dump, whatever the chinese factory caps they provide, i certainly am not trusting whatsoever theirs. not to throw out all the rest of the soldering iron. but surely the weakest link for what comes in the box... which is indeed those factory electrolytic caps.
so some guys also took my position (before me, actually not my idea, just to follow their recommendations). while other guys took the other position. that if it isn't broke, then don't fix it (until later, once it breaks).
but yours was indeed already broke, to force those dillemas between the choice of which hassles was least hassles. to either return it, or to try and fix it. after a newer hardware revisions where they already messed about (as china does) to make production changes. perhaps not even for reasons of bom cost purely alone. but to make them faster or other reasons to change parts or design. it is not entirely clear.
and basically yes i not longer wants to recommend this product, but most of all because handle is bad. but then you can buy without handle, but smps is glued. which is also bad things. that i don't wish at all onto others. such silent revisions changes.
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Where exactly did you measure?
I measured it right across the diode behind the circular connector, with ground alligator on the anode and the probe clip attached to the cathode.
Uhm, you get clean PWM on the heater output? Wat... o.O I'll check on mine.
Something like this might do the job:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=285108.0;attach=1900506;image)
Hmm, if you put a diode on top of the cap like that, would that diode ever conduct? I suppose you want one with very low forward voltage. Have you tried it? Since you said your unit is also buzzing, I'm curious to know whether this mod works in your case.
The diode is there for blocking unlimited inrush current and forces it to go through the resistor. When the voltage drops, current flows through the diode. You might be right with the low forward voltage, though.
I got this idea from there: https://www.powerctc.com/en/node/4564 (https://www.powerctc.com/en/node/4564) They use SVC4200VB with 0.7-0.8V Vf. That should be fine but needs to be tested ofc.
I still didn't check if I have enough big caps to do any experiments :D Maybe I need to order a bunch.
-
We're recapping a supply whose designers were so cheap they took out basic heatsinks and glued the damn thing to the case. Isn't it smarter to just buy a meanwell supply? Big named brand caps aren't so cheap. Intuitively, I think recapping this supply is like putting lipstick on a pig. It's so low quality, it's not even worth it. And I remember when I was testing last night, even a big linear bench supply was buzzing. I just doubt it will do much of anything.
This is exactly the reason why I refused to do this in the first place ;) If that shitty thing dies, I'll either try to fix the caps later or just replace with MeanWell (if there is a model that fits in the case...). It might be worth checking what's so different in MeanWell SMPSs, just out of curiosity.
-
actually come to think of it: the whole reasoning for why to replace these smps caps to begin with, it was because somebody here had identified what with the constant dumping of currents. that they would be getting worked pretty hard, and then some people took that to mean: well replace it sooner or later, and others could not be bothered and said they have general policy to replace caps only as needed. [edit] except for the fact that most other random equipment probably does not works caps anywhere as hard as this does. so perhaps worth a more careful consideration, such rules.
If these "bad" caps are the reason for that buzzing, I would agree that it's a good idea to swap them. Still unsure about this, though.
See, I'm not trying to say that you are wrong. I usually just don't replace stuff without clear reasoning. Otherwise I could also just buy a MW supply.
and basically yes i not longer wants to recommend this product, but most of all because handle is bad.
Well, you get what you pay for and if it really is a problem very much depends on how often you use it. I don't use it every day, so it might last pretty long. If you need it every day, better have a replacement at hand or buy a genuine handle. There is no one-size-fits-all recommendation. For me it (still) works.
... and still we have not seen how a genuine handle looks like inside :P
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It looks like aixun just released a new station: https://www.aixuntech.com/newsinfo/aixun-t320-precision-soldering-station-is-coming-soon/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/newsinfo/aixun-t320-precision-soldering-station-is-coming-soon/)
And it is now available on Ali.
Anyone tried it yet?
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It looks like aixun just released a new station
It's not release yet so I doubt anyone has tried it.
I just came across this amazing project called the AxxSolder https://github.com/AxxAxx/AxxSolder (https://github.com/AxxAxx/AxxSolder). I wish I had found this sooner, I would have never bought the Aixun. Bom cost is about 60 bucks, could power T245 and T210 from any DC source 9V-24V. Looks really well engineered. Pair this with any switching supply, or even 18650 batteries, and genuine jbc handle and tip, looks like a total winner.
demo here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MtJyTwZFQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MtJyTwZFQ)
I'm so tempted to build one.
-
As promised, I played around with my scope again:
- I was able to reproduce that AC measurement on the SMPS output, but what exactly are we measuring there? @drsky
[attach=1]
- The heater signal at the GX12-5 connector looks very similar to drsky's waveform:
[attach=2]
- This one is measured with the handle in the cradle (only keeping 200°C, short pulses, zoomed in):
[attach=3]
- Measuring the heater signal with probe at Q4-B, Q4-GND again led to weird measurements. So I checked again at the STM32 pin and that signal looks mostly fine. I'm surprised that it takes ~250us to reach 0V again, though. Any ideas?
[attach=4]
-
As promised, I played around with my scope again:
Any ideas?
well perhaps you already know what i had left to say (to repeat myself):
replace the (5) electrolytic caps. then retest again after that... just do the simplest and most obvious thing 1st.
because i don't really see much point to complicate the life with much / many other theories.
[edit] but if you do take out those electrolyics, then can take an lcr meter. and measure individually their esr and values and such.
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I just came across this amazing project called the AxxSolder https://github.com/AxxAxx/AxxSolder (https://github.com/AxxAxx/AxxSolder). I wish I had found this sooner, I would have never bought the Aixun. Bom cost is about 60 bucks, could power T245 and T210 from any DC source 9V-24V. Looks really well engineered. Pair this with any switching supply, or even 18650 batteries, and genuine jbc handle and tip, looks like a total winner.
Omg, nice one. It completely avoids the common GND problem, while one could easily add earth (probably 1M resistor *required* and I'm not sure if a SMPS with grounded negative would work then... hmm)
-
As promised, I played around with my scope again:
Any ideas?
well perhaps you already know what i had left to say (to repeat myself):
replace the (5) electrolytic caps. then retest again after that... just do the simplest and most obvious thing 1st.
Erm. You have a weird way of citing \o/ If you didn't drop the sentence before "Any ideas?" you would have realized that this waveform does not have anything to do with these caps... ;)
-
- I was able to reproduce that AC measurement on the SMPS output, but what exactly are we measuring there? @drsky
I believe we are measuring a trash-tier supply that has high output impedance and can't keep up with spiky current demands in the constantly switching load.
Measuring the heater signal with probe at Q4-B, Q4-GND again led to weird measurements.
That could be parasitic capacitance on the pulldown resistor/transistor inside the (not quiet STM32 more like GTM32) microcontroller. I'm not really sure though, but I don't think that affects the mosfet gate? Q4 will not allow current to pass from its collector to emitter during this "weird" period.
replace the (5) electrolytic caps. then retest again after that... just do the simplest and most obvious thing 1st.
I'm gonna second this, except that instead of all the caps, the most important ones to replace are the four output caps, and maybe even simpler to find one big 10mF+ cap from some scrap board.
It completely avoids the common GND problem, while one could easily add earth (probably 1M resistor *required* and I'm not sure if a SMPS with grounded negative would work then... hmm)
How does JBC do it? Do they put 1 meg resistor between tip to earth? Or do they just connect the supply negative to earth?
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Well, Hi!
I saw this question about protective earth comming up here and on the youtube DEMO.
At the moment AxxSolder does not have any protective earth and I have been using it "floating" from an isolated power supply or battery pack.
But implementing it is a good point and I will look into this in the next hardware version.
You can see how JBC did it here where johnmx did reverse engineered the JBC CD-2BC: (he attached a PDF of the schematic in his first post) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/)
They use 0.44 ohm resistance with a fuse between PE and the tip of the cartridge. If the fuse burns there is still a 1M ohm resistance. In the same circuit they are measuring protective earth currents and amplifying the signal which becomes I_LEAK.
I did an "Issue" on github. It will most likely be implemented together with USB features. See https://github.com/AxxAxx/AxxSolder/issues (https://github.com/AxxAxx/AxxSolder/issues)
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Nice to see you here, AxxAxx . Welcome! :)
It completely avoids the common GND problem, while one could easily add earth (probably 1M resistor *required* and I'm not sure if a SMPS with grounded negative would work then... hmm)
How does JBC do it? Do they put 1 meg resistor between tip to earth? Or do they just connect the supply negative to earth?
You can see how JBC did it here where johnmx did reverse engineered the JBC CD-2BC: (he attached a PDF of the schematic in his first post) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/)
They use 0.44 ohm resistance with a fuse between PE and the tip of the cartridge. If the fuse burns there is still a 1M ohm resistance. I
The main difference here is, that JBC uses a toroidal transformer, not a SMPS.
I'm still trying to figure out how a SMPS should be grounded correctly in this use case:
- negative to earth through capacitance (nope, that's only being done for EMI reasons; anyway, the SMPS manufacturer should do that right (hopefully))
- negative to earth (yup, when it's a PELV supply)
- negative floating (well, that would be SELV)
EDIT: Oh well, that's up to the SMPS being used, so the right question is if both PELV/SELV could be used with one of these options:
... in combination with:
- tip to earth
- tip to earth like JBC did (0.44 ohms + fuse + 1 Meg fall-back)
- ...
(How) would different options influence temperature measurement? Because connecting both tip and SMPS GND to earth means pulling -IN_A of the opamp to GND as well... does that hurt, or is it no problem because -IN_A has no reference to GND anyway?
[attach=1]
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oh btw:
here is another recent alternative different station, in case you want to evaluate and look at other options
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSBmfFIcqNo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSBmfFIcqNo)
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Nice to see you here, AxxAxx . Welcome! :)
Thanks! :)
The main difference here is, that JBC uses a toroidal transformer, not a SMPS.
Yes, indeed it gets more complex the more I think about it. Also considering that the grounding should work equally well with floating SMPS's and grounded negative ones and at the same time not influence the temperature reading. Need some more thoughts on this.. Doesn't look like I'm the first to stumble across this issue though. Here is for example a forum thread about the TS100 Grounding issue which should have the same "issue" as mine: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/)
I guess we should lift this discussion out in a separate forum thread and not hi-jack "Any opinions on the AiXun T3A" if people are interesed in the AxxSolder project. :)
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Yes, indeed it gets more complex the more I think about it. Also considering that the grounding should work equally well with floating SMPS's and grounded negative ones and at the same time not influence the temperature reading.
Yes, I think that's the right question. "How can the tip be earthed correctly, allowing all three battery, SELV SMPS, PELV SMPS?" I've updated my post above: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5118429/#msg5118429 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5118429/#msg5118429)
I guess we should lift this discussion out in a separate forum thread
Yep, makes sense.
and not hi-jack "Any opinions on the AiXun T3A" if people are interested in the AxxSolder project. :)
Oh well, what about creating a pcb that fits into the T3A case? 8)
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Well, Hi!
Speaking of the devil, and he shows up. Good to see you here and fantastic job on the this Axx project so far! This has potential to be a game changer as an open source T245 alternative to the hairy and confusing unisolder. What I like most about what you have so far is the simplicity.
I saw this question about protective earth comming up here and on the youtube DEMO.
That was me asking the question. I think it's really important to sort out the grounding issue so it can work reliability on sensitive/expensive boards.
They use 0.44 ohm resistance with a fuse between PE and the tip of the cartridge. If the fuse burns there is still a 1M ohm resistance.
I think that fuse is there to protect you/the soldering station in case you accidentally tried to solder a live wire. Based on the schematic you shared, The tip should always be shorted to earth (preferably through a fuse). That 1Meg resistor looks like it's sensing leakage currents to earth through the shunt at the bottom of the fuse. I don't really understand the difference between Earth1 and Earth2 though.
(How) would different options influence temperature measurement? Because connecting both tip and SMPS GND to earth means pulling -IN_A of the opamp to GND as well... does that hurt, or is it no problem because -IN_A has no reference to GND anyway?
Marco Reps made a video about this when he did his open source JBC station (https://youtu.be/cYgjcDbSyRE?feature=shared&t=256). Quoting him:
- "The tip is permanently grounded because best practice, the whole controller section must also be referenced to mains earth which is you know very common BUT if also the heater supply voltage was referenced to mains earth, there would inevitably be unwanted currents through the thermocouple. The easiest solution is to use the transformer with two independent output voltages: one is rectified, referenced to mains earth, and regulated it down to the needs of the controller. The other one is exclusively for the heater and its circuit can be controlled with our optically isolated solid-state relay."
He explains it really well in that video. The heater supply and controller supply should be isolated and only interact with optocouplers.
Oh well, what about creating a pcb that fits into the T3A case? 8)
I don't know about getting it to fit in a T3A case though. If the handle, controller, and power supply in the Buzzxun all suck, I am struggling to see the big value proposition in this fully-glued $100 product. I don't even like the case because the top doesn't open, and it's just a tube which makes it hard to work in. Probably the only good thing here is the cradle (and even that is made of plastic), but this can be bought separately.
I guess we should lift this discussion out in a separate forum thread and not hi-jack "Any opinions on the AiXun T3A" if people are interesed in the AxxSolder project. :)
Make one please.
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(How) would different options influence temperature measurement? Because connecting both tip and SMPS GND to earth means pulling -IN_A of the opamp to GND as well... does that hurt, or is it no problem because -IN_A has no reference to GND anyway?
Marco Reps made a video about this when he did his open source JBC station (https://youtu.be/cYgjcDbSyRE?feature=shared&t=256). Quoting him:
- "The tip is permanently grounded because best practice, the whole controller section must also be referenced to mains earth which is you know very common BUT if also the heater supply voltage was referenced to mains earth, there would inevitably be unwanted currents through the thermocouple. The easiest solution is to use the transformer with two independent output voltages: one is rectified, referenced to mains earth, and regulated it down to the needs of the controller. The other one is exclusively for the heater and its circuit can be controlled with our optically isolated solid-state relay."
He explains it really well in that video. The heater supply and controller supply should be isolated and only interact with optocouplers.
Haven't watched the video yet (will do) but AIUI you don't have reference to earth from the secondary with a SMPS and thus no currents (except a bit leakage) flowing. I might be wrong, though.
EDIT: Ah, well, the problem is not mains earth but the fact that when PE + GND are connected, you get a current from the heaters positive through the TC to the grounded tip (not to mains earth). See the picture I draw in my post above, where one can see that.
Oh well, what about creating a pcb that fits into the T3A case? 8)
I don't know about getting it to fit in a T3A case though. If the handle, controller, and power supply in the Buzzxun all suck, I am struggling to see the big value proposition in this fully-glued $100 product. I don't even like the case because the top doesn't open, and it's just a tube which makes it hard to work in. Probably the only good thing here is the cradle (and even that is made of plastic), but this can be bought separately.
I was joking ;) It doesn't make any sense to buy a T3A to build a AxxSolder. It might be an option if you already have one. And no it's not "fully" glued and event the display it not a huge deal. I have opened mine around 5 times in the last weeks and it was easy because I just used tiny pieces of double-sided tape to glue the glass back again :P
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[...] but get rid of the mercury switch?
Mercury in the handle. Mindblowing. :D
Thank you!
I changed over to mercury switches - the ball shake sensor is cheap plastic and easily melts when soldered, deforming the pin and then they don't work or go flaky. Very difficult to solder without wrecking them.
Glass is much better :) it also contains the mercury lol.
Another point to make, despite the "200W" claims for the power supply, it is only ever loaded up for many seconds and does not need to be designed for full power 24/7. So we have a "200W" SMPS further cheapened because the duty cycle is ~20% at worst. I see nothing wrong with it sagging a volt or two under load.
But... it's been cheapened twice maybe three times... the heatsinking, electrolytic capacitors etc. are surely under the minimum for reasonable life.
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Another point to make, despite the "200W" claims for the power supply, it is only ever loaded up for many seconds and does not need to be designed for full power 24/7. So we have a "200W" SMPS further cheapened because the duty cycle is ~20% at worst. I see nothing wrong with it sagging a volt or two under load.
But... it's been cheapened twice maybe three times... the heatsinking, electrolytic capacitors etc. are surely under the minimum for reasonable life.
Exactly this - and why to replace the chinese electrolytics is so much justified / justifiable. Because they are shunting / dumping the energy so much in those relatively shortened bursts.
the 3 main brands: nichicon, rubycon, panasonic. You will find options on digikey parametric search, with lowest ESR, highest temp (105 or 125), the most rated hours. and so on.
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Ah, well, the problem is not mains earth but the fact that when PE + GND are connected, you get a current from the heaters positive through the TC to the grounded tip
Precisely. When using a dc supply, the best setup seems to be
-connect the tip to earth
-the thermocouple will then be referenced to earth, so connect the control board supply negative also to earth
-use a floating and isolated smps for the heater and turn on and off its mosfet with an optocoupler
One can use an off-the-shelf isolated dc-dc converter to get the 24V down to 5V, for example something like PQQ6W-Q24-S5-S (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI-Inc/PQQ6W-Q24-S5-S?qs=zW32dvEIR3sbKuWv4BvdLw%3D%3D (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI-Inc/PQQ6W-Q24-S5-S?qs=zW32dvEIR3sbKuWv4BvdLw%3D%3D)) to run the controller board.
we have a "200W" SMPS further cheapened because the duty cycle is ~20% at worst. I see nothing wrong with it sagging a volt or two under load.
But... it's been cheapened twice maybe three times... the heatsinking, electrolytic capacitors etc. are surely under the minimum for reasonable life.
I wouldn't mind it either if I couldn't hear it. The buzzing is seriously annoying. Gets on the nerves really fast. Don't get me wrong. Aixun has a somewhat cute soldering iron here if it could iron out its glaring problems, ironically ;D Okay, that's too many puns for one sentence. 1. Get rid of buzzing 2. Fix the grouding problem as demonstrated by tony so it doesn't crap out on grounded boards, 3- put the damn heatsinks back on ffs 4- stop gluing stuff and use screws only 5- Add external ESD protection to the pins of the microcontroller that read ADC values 6 - Add a protection diode parallel to the heater 7 - Improve the PWM frequency and timing to not overload the supply and/or send useless pulses to the tip 8- stop using Aluminium in the handle and improve the construction and 9 - Use the same connector that JBC uses for the handle instead of the ancient and obscure gx12-5 and I think Aixun can be a likable product. The screen looks nice at least.
Something else to note: genuine JBC cartridges seem to have a different pinout than the ones Aixuns use. In the genuine T245 handle, green is earth, blue is heater, and red is common. Heater current starts in the middle pin of the cartridge and returns to the small pin in the end of it. In the Aixun T3A (and also probably T3B), heater current starts in the middle of the cartridge and returns to the outer shell. So much for the handle being compatible with genuine tips. If you were to put a genuine JBC tip in the Aixun handle, 8A of current will be flowing in the thermocouple. Yikes!
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Ah, well, the problem is not mains earth but the fact that when PE + GND are connected, you get a current from the heaters positive through the TC to the grounded tip
Precisely. When using a dc supply, the best setup seems to be
-connect the tip to earth
-the thermocouple will then be referenced to earth, so connect the control board supply negative also to earth
-use a floating and isolated smps for the heater and turn on and off its mosfet with an optocoupler
One can use an off-the-shelf isolated dc-dc converter to get the 24V down to 5V, for example something like PQQ6W-Q24-S5-S (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI-Inc/PQQ6W-Q24-S5-S?qs=zW32dvEIR3sbKuWv4BvdLw%3D%3D (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI-Inc/PQQ6W-Q24-S5-S?qs=zW32dvEIR3sbKuWv4BvdLw%3D%3D)) to run the controller board.
I like this reasoning. Ground the tip (GREEN) would be the only reasonable, and then handle the measurement issues with a isolated supply to 5V.
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I guess we should lift this discussion out in a separate forum thread and not hi-jack "Any opinions on the AiXun T3A" if people are interesed in the AxxSolder project. :)
Make one please.
Created a thread about AxxSolder here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/axxsolder-jbc-soldering-controller/msg5120772/#msg5120772 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/axxsolder-jbc-soldering-controller/msg5120772/#msg5120772)
Next version of the PCB will probably introduce a micro USB as the STM32 can be flashed directly from USB, in that way a SWD programmer is not needed for simple firmware updates.
After that I'll look into making a version focusing on the tip-grounding. Make a physical board and test a few different scenarios.
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If you were to put a genuine JBC tip in the Aixun handle, 8A of current will be flowing in the thermocouple. Yikes!
That doesn't hurt the tc at all, it's designed for this. T120 only have that way because one connector is missing. Somewhere I read that even JBC does it on some stations.
EDIT: Sorry, I was wrong. C210 has three connectors as well.
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I don't like how there is conflicting information about what the pinout of the C245 cartridge is.
It's either this:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1905747;image)
based on:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/jbc-handle-cartridge-data/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/jbc-handle-cartridge-data/)
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7218.4545 (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7218.4545)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/)
Marco Reps project
Or this:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/?action=dlattach;attach=1905753;image)
based on
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yet-another-controller-for-jbc-t210t245/msg3077826/#msg3077826 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yet-another-controller-for-jbc-t210t245/msg3077826/#msg3077826)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/jbc-tip-cartridge-pinout-and-power/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/jbc-tip-cartridge-pinout-and-power/)
http://adgd.ru/2021/01/04/jbc-soldering-cartridges-pinouts/ (http://adgd.ru/2021/01/04/jbc-soldering-cartridges-pinouts/)
Aixun and other clone tips pinout
Which one is it? One of these is wrong and misleading. Even if the thermocouple doesn't get damaged by it, I would still rather only use the thermocouple for what it was designed to be, not a second heater.
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Which one is it? One of these is wrong and misleading. Even if the thermocouple doesn't get damaged by it, I would still rather only use the thermocouple for what it was designed to be, not a second heater.
forget below example, it only tells half of the truth, you can see my cross sections here instead: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/axxsolder-jbc-soldering-controller/msg5124267/#msg5124267 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/axxsolder-jbc-soldering-controller/msg5124267/#msg5124267)
I can do a simple measurement to rule out one of them:
If I heat the tip with hot air and measure temperature (by using a thermocouple amplifier) between your GREEN (most left connection point) as + and RED (most right connection point) as - I get a resonable temperature reading (Sure it's probably not correct as we don't know what exact thermocouple it is but does not matter for now).
For C245 Cartridge:
If I in the same measurement make a short between BLUE (middle connection point) and RED (most right connection point) I do not get any difference in my reading.
That would indicate that C245 cartridges are connected as your top image.
For C210 Cartridge:
If I in the same measurement make a short between BLUE (middle connection point) and RED (most right connection point) I do get a difference in temperature and my thermocouple amplifier gives me the cold junction temperature, aka 0 mV measured.
That would indicate that C210 cartridges are connected as your bottom image.
This does however not tell the whole picture, I believe I have seen a third suggestion with the heter element between red and blue, and blue and green simply connected.
I have a couple of broken cartridges from the early development of AxxSolder. Ill try to see if I can do a destructive test on the two types I have.
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I don't like how there is conflicting information about what the pinout of the C245 cartridge is.
...
Which one is it? One of these is wrong and misleading.
While both would work, the second one is "wrong" (heating current through thermocouple).
Take a look at this cut T245. One can see that the middle connector is the heater which is connected to the center pin.
The thermocouple is formed by the center pin and the outer shell. However, you *could* measure the TC also through the heater spiral. It just doesn't make sense to do that, except you wanted to avoid three connections and just use two.
[attach=1]
(Source: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/msg2955632/#msg2955632 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/msg2955632/#msg2955632))
Even if the thermocouple doesn't get damaged by it, I would still rather only use the thermocouple for what it was designed to be, not a second heater.
Well, if JBC really uses both ways in different stations, I would say it's desined for both ways. A thermocouple is "just" two metals. (By the way, even the heater + center connector form a thermocouple! Check out the measurements done on the site linked below.) Why should they care for current? I'd rather use the "right" way as well, though :-) Oh well, I just saw that C105 only has two connectors, so they are "heating through the TC" there.
@AxxAxx don't waste your time on C245, see above, but cutting C210 like this would be nice! :)
Someone already did the measurements. http://adgd.ru/2021/01/04/jbc-soldering-cartridges-pinouts/ (http://adgd.ru/2021/01/04/jbc-soldering-cartridges-pinouts/)
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@AxxAxx don't waste your time on C245, see above, but cutting C210 like this would be nice! :)
Someone already did the measurements. http://adgd.ru/2021/01/04/jbc-soldering-cartridges-pinouts/ (http://adgd.ru/2021/01/04/jbc-soldering-cartridges-pinouts/)
I'm afraid you were too late ;) , did the cross sections. I posted them under the AxxSolder thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/axxsolder-jbc-soldering-controller/msg5124267/#msg5124267 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/axxsolder-jbc-soldering-controller/msg5124267/#msg5124267)
I think they clear out any questions about C210 and C245 connections.
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Awesome job, thanks! So, we have the same situation with C150 and C210 - both "heat" through the TC ;D
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I have a smiliar, related problem: Bought original JBC tips, but the standby/cooldown when put in stand feature does not work with them. They simply always stay on. Any clue what might be the problem here? Tip is a C245-160E.
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That's not related to the tips but probably that ADC GPIO failed. Check the thread for that problem
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That's not related to the tips but probably that ADC GPIO failed. Check the thread for that problem
Hm, I see. So I'd have to change the MCU (somehow reprogram it over JTAG/SWIO?) and then implement the protection changes you presentend in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4412704/?topicseen#msg4412704? (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4412704/?topicseen#msg4412704?)
Edit: Can confirm that standby still works with both JBC and Aixun tips - if I connect the outermost shell (basically all the metal up until the tip) with the standby input. However, connecting the metal ring at the holder which makes contact with the stand does nothing. How??
Out of curiosity: What the heck does the "Shake" input do? This thing detects if I shake it?
Curiosity 2: Why do you need to switch the station off before connecting the USB port to a computer? Do they somehow force a voltage between PE/Neutral and the GND net? This would mean the station isn't isolated from mains at all? No transformer whatsoever?
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Edit: Can confirm that standby still works with both JBC and Aixun tips - if I connect the outermost shell (basically all the metal up until the tip) with the standby input. However, connecting the metal ring at the holder which makes contact with the stand does nothing. How??
Oh, lucky you! Then it's NOT the ADC problem. Just to be sure, it doesn't work if it's in the stand but it does work if you directly connect the standby input on the unit with the outer shell, right?
Then you have that problem, where the connection in the cradle is loose. I think there was a post from dreamcat4 on that issue. You need to open the stand and fix that connection.
Out of curiosity: What the heck does the "Shake" input do? This thing detects if I shake it?
It's a option for handles without that standby detection via the outer connector. It works with a shake sensor in the handle, detecting if it's being used or not.
Curiosity 2: Why do you need to switch the station off before connecting the USB port to a computer? Do they somehow force a voltage between PE/Neutral and the GND net? This would mean the station isn't isolated from mains at all? No transformer whatsoever?
In early versions there was no diode (D8) protecting the USB VCC from the +24V. (added in v1.1 IIRC)
Thus, you need to turn off the supply.
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Oh, lucky you! Then it's NOT the ADC problem. Just to be sure, it doesn't work if it's in the stand but it does work if you directly connect the standby input on the unit with the outer shell, right?
Then you have that problem, where the connection in the cradle is loose. I think there was a post from dreamcat4 on that issue. You need to open the stand and fix that connection.
I think I narrowed down my problem: I took the standby (PORT1) wire and directly held it to the tip -> standby. Then pressed it against the metal ring at the end of the handpiece, which makes contact with the stand and where the tip inserts -> No reaction.
Looked at it, thought: Hold on, when I insert the tip, these two metal bodies should make contact, thus it shouldn't matter which part connects..? Right, if I bend the inserted tip ever so slightly, it does put the unit into standby. So, there is actually a tiny circular gap between my tips and the handpiece which keeps them from making contact.. How the heck did that happen and how the heck do I fix it?
Regarding the stand: In my version of the T3A, the stand is simply a solid piece of metal with a round plug in the back for the standby wire, so when that is plugged in, the whole stand is connected. Also tried it with the stand connected, put the iron in the stand -> No reaction. Bend the tip a bit -> into standby it goes.. JFC
Thanks for all your help!
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I don't like how there is conflicting information about what the pinout of the C245 cartridge is. [...]
See also Jaume Benet Canals, President and CEO of JBC Tools his patent EP1086772A2 (https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1086772A2/en)
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Oops, ok, third try ;) Try cleaning the tips and the handles metal ring with IPA. If that doesn't help, you might need to get a new handle :(
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Is aixun havent make c245 tips before? https://www.aixuntech.com/product/c245-customized-replacement-soldering-cartridge-iron-tip-for-soldering-rework/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/product/c245-customized-replacement-soldering-cartridge-iron-tip-for-soldering-rework/)
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Yes, but only these three types... https://www.aixuntech.com/product/c245-soldering-iron-tips-/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/product/c245-soldering-iron-tips-/)
Now they cloned all (?) of them \o/ That could be the reason for their recent weird change in T3A firmware v1.34, breaking (proper) support for genuine JBC tips :palm:
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It seems aixun also clone the c115 and c210 cartridge. But why we havent hear anything from user of T3B? Perhaps they not update the firmware?
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That could be the reason for their recent weird change in T3A firmware v1.34, breaking (proper) support for genuine JBC tips :palm:
What does that exactly mean? And is there a way to use the latest firmware before the one that broke stuff?
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Well, a few pages back jumping temperature and massive overshoot was reported.
Initial post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4971133/#msg4971133 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4971133/#msg4971133)
There was a response from Aixun saying that everything is fine (with their tips?)
This and following posts: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5058061/#msg5058061 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5058061/#msg5058061)
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Hopefully, the folks who made all the mod contributions are still here. Looking to get a finalized item list for things to check/do on the Aixun when I get it.
Check for splattered solder
Check for broken inductor
Swap capacitors: are they the same across the v1.1 and v1.2 boards? Any difference between the caps on these two boards and the new combo wombo T3A + T3B that they made? Or would that be classified as the v1.3 board? EDIT just dug through the posts, the T3A + T3B is a separate board with a v1.0 designation.
Anything else?
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Hey, did anyone have a problem where it does not want to exit sleep/dormancy mode? All of sudden after turning it on it stays in dormancy mode and won't exit even if i remove the handle from the stand. Is it something inside making short circuit? For now i've done a factory reset but it changed the language to chinese. It didn't help though
EDIT: Updated from 1.26 to 1.34 and nothing :(
EDIT2: Here's the video if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/mr_ccOohBA4
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Hey, did anyone have a problem where it does not want to exit sleep/dormancy mode? All of sudden after turning it on it stays in dormancy mode and won't exit even if i remove the handle from the stand. Is it something inside making short circuit? For now i've done a factory reset but it changed the language to chinese. It didn't help though
EDIT: Updated from 1.26 to 1.34 and nothing :(
EDIT2: Here's the video if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/mr_ccOohBA4
try change any of this?
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Hey, did anyone have a problem where it does not want to exit sleep/dormancy mode? All of sudden after turning it on it stays in dormancy mode and won't exit even if i remove the handle from the stand. Is it something inside making short circuit? For now i've done a factory reset but it changed the language to chinese. It didn't help though
Did you check if the wire going from the cradle to the station is wired in the correct hole at the back?
As @ndarjo21 said, try disabling standby altogether (there are two menus, one is the standby temp, one is "dormancy" when the tip is completely turned off).
I don't know what happens if the cradle wire is unplugged, I suppose the station would not sense that the handle is in the cradle so it might be a test to do.
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I tried with a cradle wire unplugged but the station show that it's unplaugged and won't let me do anything. I fiddled a bit with dormancy setting and set it to 380C in dormancy mode, and actually it works. It still shows dormancy all the time and it's hardcoded for that temperature after turning on but at least I can solder now. Now i think whether to order new cpu and reflash it (i heard it's the problem) or save money for a new station. For now I'll keep using it like this
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I tried with a cradle wire unplugged but the station show that it's unplaugged and won't let me do anything. I fiddled a bit with dormancy setting and set it to 380C in dormancy mode, and actually it works. It still shows dormancy all the time and it's hardcoded for that temperature after turning on but at least I can solder now. Now i think whether to order new cpu and reflash it (i heard it's the problem) or save money for a new station. For now I'll keep using it like this
easy way to troubleshoot is try check continuity between the handle and the jack (if the handle easy to disassemble). or just try another handle.
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I tried with a cradle wire unplugged but the station show that it's unplaugged and won't let me do anything. I fiddled a bit with dormancy setting and set it to 380C in dormancy mode, and actually it works. It still shows dormancy all the time and it's hardcoded for that temperature after turning on but at least I can solder now. Now i think whether to order new cpu and reflash it (i heard it's the problem) or save money for a new station. For now I'll keep using it like this
I tested on mine, the iron works with the cradle disconnected as I suspected. It just never goes into standby as it never senses the iron in the cradle. You can also disable all the standby and "eco" (this is how it's called in latest SW) so it never goes to sleep.
The fact that yours shows in the cradle all the time seems to indicate an issue with the main PCB I believe.
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I just returned the new Weller Smart station, was a huge mess, and now I have to start over with my research. Seeing that JBC is screwing people over with the controller / firmware / features on the DDE station, I may just cheap out and get this AiXun T3A.
At first I was glad to find this thread, but if I have to read all those 40 some pages, my head will explode.
Maybe somebody can give me a short summary on this unit.
Is is good after all? Is the overshoot a real issue for board level repairs on GPUs? And lastly, will genuine JBC handles work on the AiXun T3A?
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Not trying to advertise my own video but I found the T3A pretty bad at a few things, I'm not sure I would recommend it - unless you are aware of the issue I found when working with ground.
After using it extensively, I wouldn't buy it again.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-t3a-misbehaving-on-grounded-pcbs/msg5146788/#msg5146788 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aixun-t3a-misbehaving-on-grounded-pcbs/msg5146788/#msg5146788)
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Aixun has released software 1.35.
Any feedback on that?
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Aixun has released software 1.35.
Any feedback on that?
Looks like they modified C245 heating again. Maybe they fixed the weird behaviour introduced in v1.34?
1. Optimize 245 control heating;
2. Optimize the "automatic temperature compensation" function of 245;
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well, my JBC tip reads 420 when set to 360 (I have reset the unit after the update) and if I cool it down with a sponge momentarily, the temp drops to 380 and then spikes back to 420.
And the display of course doesn't reflect that.
With ground nearby, I see the same power spikes and - again - the display doesn't reflect that.
It's the same rubbish as before. I'll go back to 1.33.
I'm also noticing that 1.34 has disappeared from the list.
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;D Looks like it was a good plan to not upgrade after v1.26
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I wish I could, when I downgraded before 1.33 I think, the display is unreadable, they must have changed something there and only latest FW is supporting it.
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I was soldering on a PCB yesterday and I happened to have my oscilloscope probe still connected to the board. I could see the heating pulses appearing on the PCB when I was soldering with the T3A.
Is this thing dumping voltage into my PCBs???
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Can you make sure that thermocouple connected to the outer shell off the cartridge?
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What thermocouple?
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Hopefully you will forgive me for sharing my own content but it should give an idea of the voltage leak of this thing.
Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6rK7ACrbukI (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6rK7ACrbukI)
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I wish I could, when I downgraded before 1.33 I think, the display is unreadable, they must have changed something there and only latest FW is supporting it.
Uhm, that very much looks like a inverted display (IPS normally black vs. IPS normally white). Weird.
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Hopefully you will forgive me for sharing my own content but it should give an idea of the voltage leak of this thing.
Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6rK7ACrbukI (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6rK7ACrbukI)
Well, I guess that's the same problem like in the other thread with grounded boards.
Don't solder grounded boards. Period. ;)
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It's not practical!
Sometimes ground IS in the way, period! ;)
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Hi everyone! After trying to flash with ST-Link utility, I accidentally erased all mcu(GD32F305RET6). Aixun T3B died. I wrote to the seller and developers, but was sent "far away". The microcontroller is flashed, but nothing happens, just a white screen. As I understand it, the bootloader is wiped. Does anyone have dumps for t3b? And how to flash it correctly? Help please!!!
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It's for T3a but you can find useful informations here.
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/viewtopic.php?p=20656000#20656000 (https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/viewtopic.php?p=20656000#20656000)
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My friend, thank you for your help. In general, the Chinese sent me "far away" and refused to give me the firmware. On your recommendation I went to read that forum, tried different firmware, things have moved a bit, now instead of the white screen appears the Aixun logo with a beeping buzzer, then a white screen and so on in a circle. Tried to write to a full dump, firmware update from my T3B, there was a sign with hieroglyphics, something about the update, connected to usb, but, descriptor failure, the update program did not see the station. Forced installation of the driver also did not give the result, As I understood, bootloaders from T3a and T3b are only partially compatible, or prescribed the wrong byte options, did not find what is needed, I do not know what should be there. Maybe someone has a complete firmware from t3b? Any information.
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Hi, could someone please do a full firmware dump of the Aixun T3B?
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Ask the seller if you can buy a new control board, if not then ask this seller
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003127353314.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.101.559d1c24ZEvNL3&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
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Hi, could someone please do a full firmware dump of the Aixun T3B?
Not sure what you mean by "full". You can try here https://aixun-updates.github.io/#t3b there are some firmware files for T3B.
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Ask the seller if you can buy a new control board, if not then ask this seller
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003127353314.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.101.559d1c24ZEvNL3&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
Thank you! I wrote to this seller, he sent a new board.
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Hi, could someone please do a full firmware dump of the Aixun T3B?
Not sure what you mean by "full". You can try here https://aixun-updates.github.io/#t3b there are some firmware files for T3B.
FULL dump. this bootloader T3B + firmware
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Ask the seller if you can buy a new control board, if not then ask this seller
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003127353314.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.101.559d1c24ZEvNL3&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
Thank you! I wrote to this seller, he sent a new board.
Do a dump, please :-)
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Ask the seller if you can buy a new control board, if not then ask this seller
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003127353314.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.101.559d1c24ZEvNL3&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
Thank you! I wrote to this seller, he sent a new board.
Do a dump, please :-)
how to make a dump if RDP protection? glitch volt?
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Ask the seller if you can buy a new control board, if not then ask this seller
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003127353314.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.101.559d1c24ZEvNL3&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
Thank you! I wrote to this seller, he sent a new board.
Do a dump, please :-)
how to make a dump if RDP protection? glitch volt?
T3A was not protected. I guess T3B isn't as well (except they added it with any of the updates)
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New Firmware released for the T3A a couple of days ago (also one for the T3AS) -
AiXun T3A
1.36 (2024-01-23)JC_M_T3A_1.36.bin
Fixed some known bugs;
Those pesky "known bugs" again....
Anyone had a play and know if it actually fixes anything??
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New Firmware released for the T3A a couple of days ago (also one for the T3AS) -
AiXun T3A
1.36 (2024-01-23)JC_M_T3A_1.36.bin
Fixed some known bugs;
Those pesky "known bugs" again....
Anyone had a play and know if it actually fixes anything??
When an update says it fixes known bugs it hardly ever fixes the ones most users find very quickly when they use the product. On the other hand we generally don't notice any improvement. "known bugs" seems to have become another way of saying "obscure, low priority, bugs we just happen to have stumbled across".
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Hello everyone,
I've used those Aixun for quite some time right now and they are pretty good for the job.
I'm using an external 1000w power supply to power 2 of these T3A stations but they are giving me some problems as of now.
Both of the stations are having problems with dormancy/sleep.
One station simply can't do go sleep, no matter if I insert it in the stand or not.
This first station is showing strange behavior when the tip is not plugged, it still keeps pumping power and the temperature reading jumps around without control.
The other one shows completely opposite behavior, it stays permanent in sleep mode and won't heat up anymore(perma green sleep).
I noticed if I plug/unplug the tips it gets heated up for a really brief moment (200-500ms+-) but the screen is showing perma sleep mode without changing even in this brief moment.
I've tried different tips but without success, anyone knows the source of the problem?
At the moment I've ordered another handle from the Aixun aliexpress seller to see if that's the problem.
Can i use the original JBC T245 handle with the T3A?
If yes, how's the pinout? Is it the same as the T3A clone? Would it be worth it?
Ready to send pictures and videos if it helps explain and get some help. Kinda don't want to waste money anymore on soldering stations... Maybe get an original one?
Hopefully i'll fix completely those two with your help.
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Can i use the original JBC T245 handle with the T3A?
Yes
I did this and rewired an original T245-PA hand piece with the GX12-5 connector.
I will discuss this more at the bottom of the post.
If yes, how's the pinout?
You can find the pin-out here: https://www.printables.com/model/497695-aixun-t3a-front-esd-protector-filter (https://www.printables.com/model/497695-aixun-t3a-front-esd-protector-filter) or https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4258522/#msg4258522 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4258522/#msg4258522)
The T245 pin out is easy to find, just google "JBC T245 pinout". It has 3 colour coded wires, it is not complicated honestly, you'll see quickly how easy it is.
Is it the same as the T3A clone?
No, next to each other none of the Aixun hand pieces are identical to the JBC originals.
Not T245 and not T115 (especially not T115)
I'm not implying they are inferior quality, they just clearly aren't from the same factory because there are differences.
The latest T245 hand piece the T420D comes with is very nearly identical to the JBC handle, I'm not convinced it is worth going for JBC original over the Aixun T420D handle.
They T245 Aixun on the T240D is just slightly shorter than the original hand piece and other than the markings, you'd have to hold them next to each other to tell.
Aixun hand pieces don't come with the little smoke cover plug thing either (https://mtesolutionsinc.com/cdn/shop/products/0024311_800x.jpg)
Would it be worth it?
I've got the original hand pieces, so I haven't used the Aixun extensively, only JBC.
But if you are strapped for cash, I recommend you stick to the Aixun handle until you have a need to do otherwise.
I'm not, and wasn't strapped for cash, my job is incredible high pressure, high time demand and I do electronics as a hobby to relax.
So I spent the money to avoid wasting time, which I have little of, but it was not based on an actual problem I had.
I've only used the original JBC tips and hand piece because I wanted as close to JBC original as possible and not run into issues.
But I can't bring myself to buy a JBC station.
It is just too much money and there are plenty of cases of exceptionally questionable build quality on JBC stations. (again not money related, quality and no compelling reason IMO)
I now own a T3A and T420D.
I really like both.
The T420D operates the same way as the original JBC, and doesn't have the grounding bug T3A does (see Tony359 on YouTube)
Is the T420D worth the extra money?
I'm honestly not sure, my T3A soldered like a champ, I'm using a T115 now too and that I'm super happy I got that, which is why I got the T420D so I could run T245 and T115 from the same station.
But if I was only running T245 would it have been worth the money to replace T3A with T420D?
In a word, no, not to me.
My day job isn't electronics however, it is just a hobby, so maybe if I have a repair shop I'd say yes.
If you compare JBC original station to Aixun T420D, hands down the Aixun IMO.
The build quality is excellent, something JBC doesn't even get right.
I opened mine and it is identical to what SDG got, the quality on that station is excellent.
It is not usual Chinese stuff, there is no left over flux on the T420D PCB, the component layout is on point and they didn't bodge anything on that board.
Can i use the original JBC T245 handle with the T3A?
Now that we've talked about my attempt at providing you with an unbiased opinion, let's talk about if you really wanted a genuine JBC hand piece.
I said I replaced my T245-PA hand piece connector with a GX12-5 connector.
Do I recommend it?
No, since I got the T420D which uses the original JBC connectors, I've put the JBC connector back.
I created a 3d printed model to convert the PCB mount version of JBC connector (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005894421782.html) to a GX12-5 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003411410681.html).
If you aren't a 3d printer person or cad isn't your thing I'm sure you can figure something out.
But I'd recommend leaving the JBC overpriced hand-piece in factory condition and making an "adaptor".
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Good to hear the 420D behaves ok when ground is involved. Too bad the issues I highlighted were not public before I purchased mine - or at least I didn't find anything online when I looked. A T3A without the voltage leak and grounding issue would be a nice one.
Do you think there is a way to develop a similar station with an SMPS supply without those issues? Just curious.
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Use atx psu. Separate 5v and 12v.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-aixun-t320-any-opinions-on-it-(with-inside-pics)/msg5302402/#msg5302402 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-aixun-t320-any-opinions-on-it-(with-inside-pics)/msg5302402/#msg5302402)
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If what Gnomeza say is true, then perhaps it is possible to modify cheaper mechanic c211 which have 24v transformer and use buck converter 12v.
But actually aixun t420d use different winding for heating element. And the controller use 15v winding. (Based on Steve video)
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Use atx psu. Separate 5v and 12v.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-aixun-t320-any-opinions-on-it-(with-inside-pics)/msg5302402/#msg5302402 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-aixun-t320-any-opinions-on-it-(with-inside-pics)/msg5302402/#msg5302402)
If what Gnomeza say is true, then perhaps it is possible to modify cheaper mechanic c211 which have 24v transformer and use buck converter 12v.
Both ATX PSU and a buck converter is not isolated. They are referenced to the same supply. Current can flow from the 12v to 24v supply and ditto for ATX supplies, it is a common hack to use 12v as your positive and 5v as your negative for a 7v supply using an ATX supply.
But actually aixun t420d use different winding for heating element. And the controller use 15v winding. (Based on Steve video)
That is what I said. They are isolated supplies. Meaning they are not referenced to each other. There is no current that can flow between those two supplies. JBC also has galvanically isolated supplies for their control and heater.
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Good to hear the 420D behaves ok when ground is involved.
SDG said he tested it too and found no reference such behaviour. In another post somewhere. So at least we have a trusted public figure saying the same thing ;)
Too bad the issues I highlighted were not public before I purchased mine - or at least I didn't find anything online when I looked. A T3A without the voltage leak and grounding issue would be a nice one.
I said this as a comment on your video also. I would do exactly what you had done if it were my profession. I'm a hobbyist, if I can't solder this weekend or whatever :-//
But if it is my job, I wouldn't have risked it and bought a JBC station.
I honestly think you made the right call.
Even with me or SDG or "..." saying, well I think T420D is ok.
There isn't years of testing, it has been like, what? two weeks.
That is still a huge risk for you to take.
Do you think there is a way to develop a similar station with an SMPS supply without those issues? Just curious.
I've avoided commenting on this because I think I have some ideas to get past it.
But I wanted to test it on the T3A.
My hesitation is that Aixun actually do make really decent designs, they aren't stupid.
So there must be a reason they are using these hacks to get around this, even in the T320.
Instead of say two isolated windings on the SMPS not referenced to each other or isolated DC->DC converter (for logic control or thermocouple ADC). Leading me to think I'm overlooking something obvious.
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Even with me or SDG or "..." saying, well I think T420D is ok.
There isn't years of testing, it has been like, what? two weeks.
That is still a huge risk for you to take.
Well... it's a soldering station. A rod gets hot. The end. :)
What I am trying to say is that I still feel that £500 for a soldering station is too much for what it does.
My hesitation is that Aixun actually do make really decent designs, they aren't stupid.
You might be overestimating them :)
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On a kinda related topic.. did anyone try the AiXun C245 tips? They are producing a small range now and not only those useless two ultra-fine plus knife tip every chinese manufacturer seems to love.
https://www.aixuntech.com/product/c245-soldering-iron-tips-/ (https://www.aixuntech.com/product/c245-soldering-iron-tips-/)
I found them on Aliexpress for around 7,60€ including VAT (plus 3-4€ shipping) which makes them about 25% of the price and really affordable compared to the ~30€ (plus 5€ shipping) genuine JBC tips go for.
But i understand that most other 3rd party tips have been more or less crap so far.. sooo the question is, are these any better?
JCID/AiXun at least seem to really want to get a foot into this market long-term with all these stations, constant firmware updates and now tips plopping up. Wonder how the T413 will turn out. :)
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Yes.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/why-you-dont-want-to-buy-aixun-t245-tips (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/why-you-dont-want-to-buy-aixun-t245-tips)
The "constant firmware update" is debatable. It's a soldering station. It shouldn't need so many updates. And most of the recent ones are to hide/mitigate hardware design flaws so be careful what you wish for :)
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The "constant firmware update" is debatable. It's a soldering station. It shouldn't need so many updates. And most of the recent ones are to hide/mitigate hardware design flaws so be careful what you wish for :)
The latest T420D firmware allowed me to turn off "temperature compensation" which I can only assume is the thing where they overshoot.
They also dropped the silly words like "dormancy" instead for English words people would actually deem appropriate for the situation. Think it is "sleep" now.
There were also more configuration options around keeping the iron semi warm in the cradle and so on.
So for the T420D I think a lot of the updates are making the product better.
Covering up for hardware design problems might well be a problem for T3A at this point.
I'm not saying there are no bugs in T420D, but I think a lot of the firmware changes they made I really like, to the point that I'm not too eager to downgrade.
If only to never to see the word "dormancy" again.
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I'm not against updates but, again, it's a soldering iron :) It really shouldn't need so many updates. If that happens, it means they didn't a good job in the start - see the translation mistakes and a feature which allows the tip to overshoot? Why would that be something you want to enable at all? :)
It's like they somehow managed to resolve the voltage leak on the T3A but instead of just fixing it they added a menu "Voltage leak and 160C overshoot: ENABLE/DISABLE" ;D
Anyways I see what you mean, they could just drop it and move to the next product.
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Hi,
I ordered a T3a a while back but haven't received it yet, I've also got a JBC T254 handle and bits. Unfortunately I read this thread too late but have been following it. Has anyone tried the new software options to see if they do actually cure anything?
I was also wondering if the problems with earthed workpieces exist with the T12 or 936 handles as I will be using those?
From what I can see the T3a drives these in a more orthodox manner due to the integrated thermocouple.
Also does the latest software still discriminate (if thats not too strong) against JBC tips or has that gone away? Hopefully I can answer these myself in a few weeks when the unit turns up.
Thanks for all the info,
Paul
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I doubt any firmware could cure an hardware issue. An update might mitigate it at best - and apparently they also decided to go for the "hiding" option.
I'm not familiar with the T12 or 936 but I guess they all have thermocouples inside?
The problem with the T3A is that under some specific circumstances the signal coming back from the sensor becomes incorrect. The logic can only try to detect when that happens and stop pushing power into the tip like there is no tomorrow. But it won't be able to accurately control the temperature. It's like if someone covered your eyes while you're driving - you can only keep driving straight hoping there isn't a bend coming. You can get better glasses but they won't make things better when you cannot see :)
Happy to be mistaken of course! :)
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Thanks for the info Tony, I realise you've probably committed your t3a to the dustbin now. I think there has been some investigation into the cause of this further up this thread, but it didn't seem conclusive. AFAIK the T12/936 have thermocouples in series with the heater normally, so would be generally be driven in a similar to the T3a, although there seem to separate connections on some "936" handles. I'd be happy to use it with the workpiece on a dissipative mat or connected through a resistor to ground if that prevents the problem but its a nuisance if the board is still in the chassis.
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Updating without vendor software is now possible: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
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... and finally we got the T3B bootloader: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev/blob/master/bin/t3b_boot_v0.04.bin
Many thanks @ruslan_nesterenko