Charging a 12volt (about) Lithium Pack from a small Solar Panel

[daveyk]

To power a Weathernet camera, by Ambient Weather, requires 12volts DC, or so I am told.  I am not sure the current requirements, but I doubt they it would be that much.

If I were to weld together, maybe 6 18650 batteries is series and parallel, to power the camera (two sets of three in series and then the sets paralleled???), is it possible to charge the pack from a small solar panel which is typically only 4.5-5volts out?

Is there such a things as a boost converter, battery charger that can do this?

I have searched for WiFi cameras, and have three, that have Solar panels, but none I found, so far, will do FTP upload to weathernet.

[tunk]

I think I would have tried this:
- single 18650 and step-up converter to 12V
- 18650 with BMS, and solar panel plus diode connected to the cell

[thm_w]

If you read their manual, its a regular security camera that they've told you to go into the settings and turn on 60s snapshots. https://ambientweather.com/amb/WC-FMWAC2KSNV.pdf
Here is a FTP example from hikvision: https://www.cameraftp.com/CameraFTP/Support/HikVision_FTP_Cloud_Recording.htm

But anyway, power consumption is rated at 5W max. You should check what power its actually using during use, to make sure that a small panel can sustain it. You might need a larger panel than you think.
If the software is good maybe it shuts off the camera between timelapse captures to reduce power.

I have Argus 2 wifi solar camera, timelapse, no FTP though as its more of an IOT thing, so probably not useful for you. Panel is only 3.2W, but the camera has deep sleep modes.

[Peabody]

I don't know of a solution for charging 3S cells from 5V.  I expect it would be complicated by the need for balancing the cells during charging.  I agree with tunk that boosting a single 18650 (or several in parallel) to 12V with a boost converter would be the simplest approach.

Here are panels available on Amazon that I have used, which seem to work to spec:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074TYH68Z

They are 5V, 2.5W each, so nominally you would need to use both of them just to power your camera, plus additional panels to charge the battery.  If your camera runs 24 hours, I doubt you could keep it going with "a small solar panel".

There is the additional issue of a load sharing circuit that would allow you to properly charge the battery to termination while powering the camera at the same time.  Such a circuit is complicated when solar panels are the charging source.

But I assume there must be security cameras out there that run on solar panels and batteries.  So maybe there's a reasonable way to do it.

[Faranight]

You might need a larger panel than you think.

This is true. You can't expect the weather to be perfect every day. You have to take into account cloudy weather, and the fact that you're going to need decently sized power bank capable of storing enough charge to last the camera through the night. I think there are enough 12V lead-acid battery solar chargers available. Perhaps you can use them to charge the battery during daytime and have the camera power itself from the battery?

[daveyk]

""Here are panels available on Amazon that I have used, which seem to work to spec:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074TYH68Z""

Thank you.  Those panels do not have a mount.  for my Lorex security cameras, which are battery operated, but do not come with a panel, I have been using a panel from Amazon that's about $22 (I'll have to look it up and provide the link).

The camera would only be doing snapshots and running all the time, at least I do not think it would be.   I have not actually bought the Ambient Weather Net camera yet, but the 5 watts is a little shocking.  I would guess that's a maximum, rating while it is operating (and probably doesn't use that much).

As others have suggested (I guess I was burned out the other night cause it was stupid not to think of it), 3 18650s in Parallel and a boost convertor.

I wonder if a charge board is even necessary using a 5volt solar panel?  The Lorex battery packs hook directly to the solar panel via a micro-USB connector and as far as I can tell there is no PCB in their packs.  You get them either with three 18650s or two18650s in them.  I doubt a small panel has enough energy to burn up an 18650.

I do believe this is panel I have been using for two years with my Lorex Camers:   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SR6BCMR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dave

[daveyk]

Thanks everyone for the great ideas.  Sorry I just got here.  I would think 2 or three 18650s in parallel and a boost converter would do the trick.

Here is the solar panel I have been using:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SR6BCMR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The camera should not be on all the time, only every so often for time lapse snapshot and transfer via WiFi to Weathernet's FTP site or to a network drive.  I do not know if their camera has movement detect or not.  I have about 7 outdoor cameras now for that, so just a timelapse camera is needed.  The one they sell is 12 volts.

Question is an 1860 charger really needed with the solar panel?  I do believe I have a few left over from a previous project that charged two 18650s in Parallel.

A one Amp Boost Converter for 12 volts at 1 amp (if that is really the current draw), may be more difficult.  I'll hit Amazon and Ebay and start looking.

Thanks everyone again.  I don't know why I was thinking of making a 12 volts 18650 pack.  That was stupid.  I was very tired last night....if that is an acceptable excuse - lol.

[daveyk]

This looks like it charges the 18650 batteries and provide boots up to 12volts at 6watts.  I don't see any heatsink though....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124446569972?hash=item1cf997f5f4:g:qR8AAOSwcddftaSG&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4HWR%2B9GHtjy4o29qypU5lBjHOfOR%2BMFkTYwL8fQ%2FcwcI0E2lW8YZEy%2FamIMXC9BvAkcie%2BxzcoPNQONHU32vkST9JsftMlrnkjmqF5SF3UQBbHXEhaGqx3qWhxsax4GV46YrdQCcymAb8y42MgSAboweySX5RHZY385s%2FAcY4Ey%2FgOGBic4Mkrje4vp%2FTDcIN90IalYePfdzkb9zP8CnKiyvNRHbae7%2BBt1VfSIqSd3Q2UVIr9nuPiEMCbkCb7YynBKjdyp0h8GZyzswhA45FFVuIsK97GDZciawPhF4kZCZ%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6y-r7ueYQ

[thm_w]

The camera should not be on all the time, only every so often for time lapse snapshot and transfer via WiFi to Weathernet's FTP site or to a network drive.  I do not know if their camera has movement detect or not.  I have about 7 outdoor cameras now for that, so just a timelapse camera is needed.  The one they sell is 12 volts.

Again, depends on how their software works. Which you won't know until you measure it.
Since its designed around AC power, they might not care that it uses 5W continuous. A single 18650 will last about 2 hours at that rate of discharge.

The 7 outdoor cameras you have are not AC powered?

[tunk]

The ebay charge/step-up module most likely uses a TP4056, and if
so, it's set to charge with 1A (1.2k programming resistor). What will
happen when the panel cannot deliver 1A? I don't know, it may sort
of work, or it may not work at all. The circuit used in cheap power
banks with solar panel will not be optimal, but it will work:
18650 + BMS + (schotty) diode + panel.

[Peabody]

That Ebay module is the J5019, which combines a TP4056 charger and an MT3608 boost converter.  It has no battery protection circuit, so you would need to use protected batteries.  Also note that if the panel succeeds in fully charging the batteries, the TP4056 will shut down, which means the batteries must take over powering the load even if the sun is shining brightly.  When voltage drops from 4.2V to 4.1V, the TP4056 will start up again.  So you could have some unnecessary battery cycling.

And finally, the TP4056 terminates charging when the charging current drops to 10% of the full charge current.  If the load current is always greater than that, the TP4056 will never terminate charging, which could be a bad thing for fully-charged lithium batteries.

A load sharing circuit normally takes care of those problems, but the typical circuit used with a fixed 5V supply doesn't work with variable solar power.  I worked out the circuit shown below, and it works, but of course isn't a convenient module.

It seems to me that the the main issue is how much power the camera draws on average, particularly at night.

[daveyk]

""The 7 outdoor cameras you have are not AC powered?""

No, they either have a two cell or three cell pack and a solar panel charger.  The Lorex cameras have been up almost two years without battery drain issues and when triggered (which is a lot), they record, or should I say, the DVR records, one minute of video each time and shuts down.  Those cameras are only 1080p and not great for detail.  The newer ones are the Reolink with Solar Panels, and the seem to hold out well, but their PC App and iPhone apps do not record video on their own.  The PC Program is all set up for it and configured to that but don't.  I asked Reolink tech support about that, and was told, that feature was disable on this series of battery cameras, even though they trigger and send the video clips (10 seconds) out to an Gmail account. Internally, the camera will store 30 seconds to 1 minute off video on it's 128gb uSD drive, but has been disabled in the computer software.  You can get video clips that long if you sign up and pay for their cloud storage (grrrrrrrr).  The one thing going for them is fantastic video quality (about double that of the Lorex).

I need McGee's app that can take a tiny portion of the 1080p image, bring up that total blur and enhance it in to perfect clarity. lol

[Peabody]

Be like Deckard.  Just say "enhance".

Are those existing battery packs lithium?

[daveyk]

""Be like Deckard.  Just say "enhance".""

LOL

""Are those existing battery packs lithium?""

They look like 18650's to me (pic attached).  You get them, by default with two cells, although last year (2021) during black Friday, I bought two 3 cell packs for half price. Even the 2 cell packs have been that reliable for operating the cameras, I did look this year for 3-cell packs. One the plate, there is a micro-USB port to charge with a solar panel, or a wall wort when used inside.  There is a green LED so there must be a little PCB inside that pack, but it would have be thin.  The back end has a 5 touch pin connector that touches up inside the camera.  I just checked on those pins to the camera, the pack only puts out ~4.1 volts.

[daveyk]

The forum wouldn't let me add the third picture.

[daveyk]

Thank you; that was a good effort.  I do have some little 18650 charger boards fed from a microUSB port.  I thought they had battery protection built-in, but maybe not.  Lithium's are very scary (to me).  I do not charge any in the house, unless I am there to watch (sans the ones in my indoor lorex cameras charging via a wall wort).  I could add your circuit to it without a lot of effort.  Instead of a regulator, I would need it feed a boost converter.  That camera I am considering playing with is 12 volts.

*It may be easier to find a WiFi outdoor 5 volt camera.  Everyone I sent inquiries in on that are battery operated will not allow images to be sent to an FTP site.  Other cameras, besides Ambient Weather, that can do are all powered by a wall wort.  To me, that defeats the purpose of an outdoor camera.

[thm_w]

Yeah reolinks goal is to sell you on cloud subscriptions.

*It may be easier to find a WiFi outdoor 5 volt camera.  Everyone I sent inquiries in on that are battery operated will not allow images to be sent to an FTP site.  Other cameras, besides Ambient Weather, that can do are all powered by a wall wort.  To me, that defeats the purpose of an outdoor camera.

Depends on how big your property is and how far/exposed the cables would need to be.
I use all wired POE cameras outside. Ethernet cable is cheap and reasonably reliable. But most of the wiring is hidden.

[Peabody]

Yes, I think they must be 18650s.  Well, I guess the concern is that a camera designed to run on AC will not have been designed to maximize battery life.  And if it turns on IR LEDs at night so it can see, that's going to use up batteries pretty fast.

Is there no way around the FTP thing, such as maybe an intermediate ESP32 board?

Edit:  It may be more trouble than it's worth, and the camera may not be good enough, but this project talks about forwarding the pictures to an FTP server.

https://github.com/s60sc/ESP32-CAM_MJPEG2SD

[daveyk]

Yea, don't know if it's worth all the hassle.   I am learning something.  I wanted to make a circuit that would work then 3D print a box for it. If there was just more time in the day.  Ambient tells me that they are working on a Solar Recharged battery camera,  but can not say when it will be released. 

For now, I will use these suggestions for workings on a 16550 charge controller and boost supply and do some bench testing with the electronic load.  Then search cameras.  If I get their camera, it's only about $100 I would be out, and worse case, I think there is a place I could put it and use mains power (although 100% of my outdoor lighting and cameras are solar.   It seems a shame to go away from that.

"intermediate ESP32 board?"

No idea what that is.

" It may be more trouble than it's worth, and the camera may not be good enough, but this project talks about forwarding the pictures to an FTP server.

https://github.com/s60sc/ESP32-CAM_MJPEG2SD""

I just saw this while typing this response.  I'll look in to it; thanks.

[Peabody]

The ESP32 is a microcontroller with built-in wireless and bluetooth functions.  It's the successor to the ESP8266.  Both can be programmed through the Arduino IDE.

The ESP32-CAM is an ESP32 with a 2MP camera added.  The cost of the module is about $10, and it runs on either 3.3V or 5V, and I would bet it draws a lot less than 5 watts.

Here's a Youtube video that covers the basics.

[daveyk]

Oh my, thank you; this has much promise.  I wanted to learn Python and Arduino and this could be a good project for that.  2mxp isn't a lot, but for just viewing the weather, it may be and just playing with it it would be fun.  Back to the video.....

[Peabody]

I think it's 1600x1200, which really isn't that bad.  There are higher resolution camera options for it, but I think that takes the cost up considerably.

There are a number of Youtube videos on surveillance camera projects using the ESP32-CAM.  I wouldn't be surprised if somebody hasn't already done most of the work for you.  Anyway, it's hard to beat the price.

One thing that I discovered when Googling this is that the ESP32-CAM has a reputation for drawing high peak current.  I think the key to success may be to only do one thing at a time.  Take a picture, then shut down the camera, then fire up wifi to transmit it, then shut down wifi, save to the SD card only after that's all done.