Author Topic: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510  (Read 27595 times)

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Offline sleemanj

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Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« on: March 18, 2015, 05:46:30 am »
So, yeah, I'm evaluating a couple different crimping tools to handle  Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510

One is a non-ratcheting basic tool.

One is a ratcheting, swappable die, adjustable pressure, tool.



Which one do you think does the better job?


Nope, not the ratcheting one.

I don't know if it's me, or what, but the basic tool consistently works better and easier than the ratchet, half the time the ratchet tool makes a real mess of it, and it's never a one-shot crimp like it's supposed to be. 

I did make one modification to the basic tool, a rubber band around the handle to hold just enough pressure against the spring to keep the terminal in the jaws while inserting the wire,you do have to straighten the strain relief tongues in slightly to fit in the jaws before crimping, but apart from a quick extra squeeze with some needle nose to make sure it's done, it does a much easier and more reliable job.

The die in the ratcheter is the correct one for the job, it's just not very good at it's job.

To be fair, I also have a typical red/blue/yellow insulated terminal die for the ratcheter, and with those it does a pretty good job.

So there you go, if you want to crimp Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510, and don't know if you should buy a ratcheting or manual tool, I'd just get the manual one.

The ratcheter pictured is a DN-28B, the manual is LS-202B, there are some other ratcheters that use the DN-28B die, namely DN,HS and L series (these are all made by http://www.lsdtools.com/) so I'd avoid any of those. I might pick up one of the SN-28B which people seem to more commonly use and see if it does any better than the DN, seems the die might be slightly different.



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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2015, 07:22:20 am »
I also thought that ratcheting worked best, but only struggled with it, have also some smaller of the normal type, but just struggles with that also.

Then I bought this one: http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa01_04e.html after reading some about it on the forum here, this one is actually good, later I found that they have an range of these, so I'm not sure which one of them is best for these type connectors (mostly dupont, and some that is used for JST battery, and RC batteries), but this one is very tight so it's easier to use than the loose one. (I have only two hands after all)
Used this video to find out how to do it:
 

Offline akis

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2015, 08:55:13 am »
For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2015, 12:08:31 pm »
For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/

Was it cheaper to buy it from Japan, instead of your importer? http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimping
I bought my PA-01 from them instead of directly from Japan, because I did'nt find that it was saving me anything.

Would be nice to see some good comparision between all the crimping options from Engineer to see which one would suit best for these small connectors.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2015, 12:38:18 pm »
I don't know if it's me, or what, but the basic tool consistently works better and easier than the ratchet, half the time the ratchet tool makes a real mess of it, and it's never a one-shot crimp like it's supposed to be. 
But what did you expect from cheap Chinese tool. Even more expensive ones usually are crap. After being fed with crap crimping tools I just bought Knipex Multicrimp for bigger connectors. Huge difference regardless of that crimping dies and tool itself look similar to cheap crap. Completely different quality of crimps.

For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/
IMO it's not very good. Crappily crimps many connectors, especially smallest, which is states to support. Crimps look OK, but they are weak and wire can be relatively easy pulled out. Also connector is often stuck in the tool and hard to pull it out.
 

Offline akis

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2015, 01:13:30 pm »
For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/

Was it cheaper to buy it from Japan, instead of your importer? http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimping
I bought my PA-01 from them instead of directly from Japan, because I did'nt find that it was saving me anything.

Would be nice to see some good comparision between all the crimping options from Engineer to see which one would suit best for these small connectors.

I paid 3605 +shipping = 4025 yen. Todays prices like £22 but I cannot remember the exchange rate then. With 20% VAT (say I had to pay VAT, which I did not) it would be total 4850 yen == £28.

On Amazon it is £28 today all inclusive but I believe it was much more expensive one year ago when I bought from Japan.

On the site you suggested (http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimping/engineer-pa-09-universal-mini-crimping-tool-for-molex-jst-amp-hirose-jae-etc) it is £42 !!!! And probably they will apply shipping and VAT on top.

They make more than 100% profit. Crooks. Daylight robbery.

In the UK most merhcants are crooks. Rip-off Britain, as you know. So much so that it is cheaper to buy abroad.
 

Offline akis

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 01:32:23 pm »
I don't know if it's me, or what, but the basic tool consistently works better and easier than the ratchet, half the time the ratchet tool makes a real mess of it, and it's never a one-shot crimp like it's supposed to be. 
But what did you expect from cheap Chinese tool. Even more expensive ones usually are crap. After being fed with crap crimping tools I just bought Knipex Multicrimp for bigger connectors. Huge difference regardless of that crimping dies and tool itself look similar to cheap crap. Completely different quality of crimps.

For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/
IMO it's not very good. Crappily crimps many connectors, especially smallest, which is states to support. Crimps look OK, but they are weak and wire can be relatively easy pulled out. Also connector is often stuck in the tool and hard to pull it out.

Well, yes. I have used a variety of small connectors, that I need my glasses and a lens to see properly, and after very careful consideration I can say that for each particular connector, and make and manufacturer, not all connectors are made the same, you also need a particular size of wire. If the wire is too thin the crimping will be weak/loose, if the wire is too large the connector will distort and be out of shape.

So to make a good crimp you need:

1) good quality tool. The right size slot, different for front and rear brackets on the same connector!
2) good quality connectors - not all connectors are made equal
3) ideal wire gauge to match the inner bracker, the one on the exposed strands. Ideal thickness and overall diameter of insulation to match the outer crimp/bracket.
4) Dupont female connectors are better because they allow the exposed strands to be longer than normal and naturally sit under the spring of the connector, so that when mated the loaded spring presses down on the exposed strands making very good contact, so much so that the inner crimp becomes irrelevant. Most other connectors however rely on the inner crimp for electrical contact.
5) Many times you rely on the rear bracket to provide mechanical strength, and on the front bracket to provide electrical contact, when you use wires thinner than ideal.

So in this case, it is not the tool.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 01:35:43 pm »
I don't know if it's me, or what, but the basic tool consistently works better and easier than the ratchet, half the time the ratchet tool makes a real mess of it, and it's never a one-shot crimp like it's supposed to be. 
But what did you expect from cheap Chinese tool. Even more expensive ones usually are crap. After being fed with crap crimping tools I just bought Knipex Multicrimp for bigger connectors. Huge difference regardless of that crimping dies and tool itself look similar to cheap crap. Completely different quality of crimps.

For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one here http://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/
IMO it's not very good. Crappily crimps many connectors, especially smallest, which is states to support. Crimps look OK, but they are weak and wire can be relatively easy pulled out. Also connector is often stuck in the tool and hard to pull it out.

So, what is an good tool then?
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 02:05:57 pm »
So, what is an good tool then?
Universal tool for small connectors? I don't know. I use a bit modified PA-09 so far. Don't need it often, so can live with it. There are good specialized crimping tools but they cost a kidney.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 02:18:41 pm »
So to make a good crimp you need:

1) good quality tool. The right size slot, different for front and rear brackets on the same connector!
2) good quality connectors - not all connectors are made equal
3) ideal wire gauge to match the inner bracker, the one on the exposed strands. Ideal thickness and overall diameter of insulation to match the outer crimp/bracket.
4) Dupont female connectors are better because they allow the exposed strands to be longer than normal and naturally sit under the spring of the connector, so that when mated the loaded spring presses down on the exposed strands making very good contact, so much so that the inner crimp becomes irrelevant. Most other connectors however rely on the inner crimp for electrical contact.
5) Many times you rely on the rear bracket to provide mechanical strength, and on the front bracket to provide electrical contact, when you use wires thinner than ideal.

So in this case, it is not the tool.
It's a tool in this case. One example. Genuine molex picoblade which is stated to be supported, 28 AWG wire, 1mm hole used. Crimp produced is loose. Only tool remains to blame. Regardless of crimp being loose, it is hard to remove connector as it is stuck in the tool. The same with some other types of supported connectors.
 

Offline krivx

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 02:44:52 pm »
I have a different Engineer tool (I'll check the P/N) and I'm happy with it. I haven't had any issues with wires pulling out of crimp pins but it is a manual tool so some regulation of crimping force will need to be done. Crimps do sometimes stick in the die afterwards, I don't have trouble freeing them though.
 

Offline krivx

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 02:54:31 pm »
I have the PA-20
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2015, 12:43:41 am »
So, what is an good tool then?
Given your location, you might want to take a serious look at Pressmaster (rebranded by Thomas&Betts, 3M, Wiha, and Xcelite for example). They offer a LOT of options, including a model that offers interchangeable dies (MCT). The MCT isn't perfect (i.e. no locators available), but it's cost effective vs. separate crimpers for each type of terminal you're using.

Another alternative would be Wezag (also get rebranded often; Panduit and Wiha for example).
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2015, 11:11:40 am »
So, what is an good tool then?
I'm using this one for XH connectors:
www.ebay.com/itm/TU-190-08-XH2-54-PH2-0mm-DuPont-Terminal-KF2510-Crimping-Tool-Pliers-/291332638543
It works excellent.
When it comes to crimping you should stay away from the 'plier' model crimpers. It's not going to work; crimping is about making a so called cold weld where the wire strands fuse with the contact.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 11:13:24 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2015, 11:50:25 am »
The ratcheting version I have is this one: https://www.adafruit.com/products/1213
that looks kinda similar, but I haven't managed to make good crimps.

But, part of the problem is also to know how much insulation one need to remove, and where in the crimp to put the leads, would be nice with an proper guide there.
 

Offline krivx

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2015, 11:56:16 am »
You should look at the crimp pins manufacturer for that, but generally I strip enough just so that the inner crimp arms are pressed into the stripped end and the outer ones are gripped by the insulation only.

Whenever I use a new crimp/connector I usually make a half dozen as throwaways to pull apart and look under a microscope, that usually works just fine.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 12:01:33 pm by krivx »
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2015, 11:58:18 am »
I only use it for hobby projects, so I buy Dupont crimps at ebay, I'm not sure if it's better quality on them if I buy them at Farnell, but maybe? (I don't fnd any at farnell either, my searchability on Farnell etc are very very bad)


 

Online nctnico

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2015, 04:24:43 pm »
The ratcheting version I have is this one: https://www.adafruit.com/products/1213
that looks kinda similar, but I haven't managed to make good crimps.

But, part of the problem is also to know how much insulation one need to remove, and where in the crimp to put the leads, would be nice with an proper guide there.
You only need to remove 2mm insulation. A crimp contact usually has 2 sections: one for the wire strands and one for the wire + insulation. The jaw of a good crimper has different heights for crimping the wire strands and the insulation. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a universal crimping tool. You need to buy a crimp tool which has been specifically designed for the contact you are crimping. So yes you can end up with half a dozen crimp tools for various contacts.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline akis

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2015, 02:48:31 pm »
That is actually very correct. I would add that the thickness of the insulation and the wires is very important. A very thin wire will slip out of the connector, and a thicker wire will not fit in properly. If using a tninner wire, I strip out double the length, and then fold the wire strands so that to obtain double the thickness and that gives it a good hold.

A crimp tool with thin blades/teeth, allows you to crimp the exposed wire in one action and then, crimp the insulation in a separate action.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2015, 10:04:16 am »
Just a bit of an update.

I bought another ratcheting crimp tool, this time an "LS" series with an  A03A die.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LS-03A-hand-crimping-tool-for-crimping-open-barrel-terminals/330320_823302362.html

And it works much much better for Dupont that the DN series I bought previously, and is basically single action crimping, although dressing with needle nose is still necessary at least for the thin wires I was using.

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Offline johnmx

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2015, 09:54:10 am »
Just a bit of an update.

I bought another ratcheting crimp tool, this time an "LS" series with an  A03A die.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LS-03A-hand-crimping-tool-for-crimping-open-barrel-terminals/330320_823302362.html

And it works much much better for Dupont that the DN series I bought previously, and is basically single action crimping, although dressing with needle nose is still necessary at least for the thin wires I was using.


I also bought this tool LS-03A and let me tell you, this is completely garbage.
This tool is not for Molex neither for dupont. It's only for FAST connectors and is very bad even for those!
It doesn't matter the size of the wire, the result is always the same crap. The crimping looks bad and wire gets loose very easily.
It's much worse than crimping with a needle-nose pliers.

The right tool from LSD brand for the crimps of the topic are the DN,HS or L series with the B28B dies.
As I understand, the LSD brand is the worst of all. The quality of the dies that you get is very inconsistent.

Many people say that the SN-28B is better.
Best regards,
johnmx
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2015, 10:10:53 am »

The right tool from LSD brand for the crimps of the topic are the DN,HS or L series with the B28B dies.

Read post #1 in this very thread.

Note that I am the poster of post #1, and to the post which you replied to.

Observe that I first tried the 28B in a DN and found it not very good, in post #1

Then I tried the LS with the A03A and found it much better than the 28B.

Maybe you are correct that the die consistency is not good, as my experience appears to be the polar opposite to yours.
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Online tooki

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2015, 01:00:16 pm »
Just a bit of an update.

I bought another ratcheting crimp tool, this time an "LS" series with an  A03A die.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LS-03A-hand-crimping-tool-for-crimping-open-barrel-terminals/330320_823302362.html

And it works much much better for Dupont that the DN series I bought previously, and is basically single action crimping, although dressing with needle nose is still necessary at least for the thin wires I was using.
Could you maybe post some pictures of finished crimps of different sizes? I'm curious as to the result.

I have an SN-28B I picked up on fleabay (looks absolutely identical to the Adafruit one) and it seems to work well for Dupont pins using the smallest die. I also picked up a fleabay HS-03B to do spade terminals with, but I'm not really so happy with the result. However, I'm not entirely convinced it's the tool's fault, as I don't think the cheap fleabay spade terminals are accurately made, either, so they kinda rotate in the die a few degrees before the crimp is finished. :/
 

Offline johnmx

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 08:06:25 pm »
Recently I bought the Engineer PA-09 and the results are 100% perfect.
This tool is magnificent for all types of compatible crimps.

http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa09e.html
Best regards,
johnmx
 

Offline wblock

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Re: Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 08:41:39 pm »
Recently I bought the Engineer PA-09 and the results are 100% perfect.
This tool is magnificent for all types of compatible crimps.

http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa09e.html

Everyone seems to like those.  I recently got the SN-28B crimpers, and have found them pretty much useless.  The dies are too wide for JST connectors, making it pretty much impossible for them to do, well, what they are supposed to do.  Tolerances are poor, and it seems impossible to get a useful crimp that doesn't overcrimp the pin.  Next time, I will get those PA-09 crimpers.
 


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