Dewalt batteries - bait and switch!

[Wartex]

Dewalt quietly goes from high-end A123 cells to shitty Samsung cells.

[Kiriakos-GR]

The Samsung cells are not shitty.

They are much better than many no-name one.
They do cost less of what you would pay to get cells from Japanese brands, and they have some quality.

[Psi]

Did he make a mistake about the charge rate? I only listened to the video once and didn't go back to check but it sounded like he said the batteries were;
   spec'ed at max 550mA charge rate but the charger was putting in 1.1A and so they were being charged over spec.

If there is two banks in parallel as he said at the start then 1.1A is fine, as its 550mA per cell.

[Precisiontools]

Good vid...thanks for the heads up Wartex. I noticed towards the end he said he might go to Milwaukee but I have a friend who sells them here in Australia and they are having trouble with their batteries at the moment as well.

[Wartex]

Did he make a mistake about the charge rate? I only listened to the video once and didn't go back to check but it sounded like he said the batteries were;
   spec'ed at max 550mA charge rate but the charger was putting in 1.1A and so they were being charged over spec.

If there is two banks in parallel as he said at the start then 1.1A is fine, as its 550mA per cell.

No I didn't. The manufacturer spec is 0.5C, which is 550 mA. The charger charges the cells in 1 hour. To charge 1.1 Ah cell in 1 hour, you have to pump 1.1+ A into it. Number of cells and configuration of the pack is irrelevant.

[Wartex]

The Samsung cells are not shitty.

They are much better than many no-name one.
They do cost less of what you would pay to get cells from Japanese brands, and they have some quality.

Compared to A123 they are crap.

2000 cycles vs sub 800
70A vs 14A discharge
4C vs 0.5C charge rate

Need I go on?

[Kiriakos-GR]

You should blast the shithead at Dewalt who had choose this specific batteries for this specific task.

You had find that the specs its not identical.
Ok and what Samsung haves to do with it ?
He is just the manufacturer. 

[FreeThinker]

DeWalt was bought out by Black and Decker over ten years ago. The DeWalt name was retained because Black and Decker could not sell it's ProLine range into the professional market due to branding resistance (the proline wasn't that bad BUT Black and Decker was associated with home/diy and NO professional would land on site with one in his toolbox). Roll on Ten years and the local production site at Spennymoor in the UK is long since gone and the Black and Decker mentality of cheap and cheerful has won the day. The bottom line is that the user will vote with their wallet, and price is NOT the bottom line. Most of the users are paid by results and when the drill stops they stop earning! It won't take long for the name of DeWalt to become scoffed at and replaced by Bosch,Makita or numerous others. Great Shame that a fine machine is crippled by short sighted management who just do not understand their market.

[BrickBoiler]

It won't take long for the name of DeWalt to become scoffed at and replaced by Bosch,Makita or numerous others. Great Shame that a fine machine is crippled by short sighted management who just do not understand their market.

In my line of work guys are already seeing the decline in dewalt and moving to makita and milwaukee.  My company wont even buy us dewalt now, we get either ryobi or milwaukee depending on how much the office guy likes you.

[Psi]

Did he make a mistake about the charge rate? I only listened to the video once and didn't go back to check but it sounded like he said the batteries were;
   spec'ed at max 550mA charge rate but the charger was putting in 1.1A and so they were being charged over spec.

If there is two banks in parallel as he said at the start then 1.1A is fine, as its 550mA per cell.

No I didn't. The manufacturer spec is 0.5C, which is 550 mA. The charger charges the cells in 1 hour. To charge 1.1 Ah cell in 1 hour, you have to pump 1.1+ A into it. Number of cells and configuration of the pack is irrelevant.

ah, right, i misheard "charging them at 1.1Ah" as charging the packs at 1.1Ah when it was cells.

Yeah, charging them at double their spec is pretty dodgy.
Though, we don't really know the exact specs of them, as you say.

It won't take long for the name of DeWalt to become scoffed at and replaced by Bosch,Makita or numerous others. Great Shame that a fine machine is crippled by short sighted management who just do not understand their market.

My bosch has similar samsung cells in it as the ones in the video.
It still works really well with no noticeable performance degration 3 years later.
However it did blow up electrolytic cap burst and took out the mosfet driver, mosfet and diode. Had to order some new ones from digikey to fix it.
Though it was in the "green" consumer bosch range, not the blue industry range, not that that should be an excuse.

In my line of work guys are already seeing the decline in dewalt and moving to makita and milwaukee.  My company wont even buy us dewalt now, we get either ryobi or milwaukee depending on how much the office guy likes you.

Around here we're seeing ryobi becoming like black&decker, (ie rubbish) the last ryobi orbital sander we got lasted for a couple of jobs before the vibration broke all the plastic mounts inside.

[Wartex]

ah, right, i misheard "charging them at 1.1Ah" as charging the packs at 1.1Ah when it was cells.

Yeah, charging them at double their spec is pretty dodgy.
Though, we don't really know the exact specs of them, as you say.

The 0.5C I know for a fact from the safety registration documents.


PS: Kiriakos, I meant "samsung are shitty for this task". You have an amazing ability to misinterpret what people say on this forum. English is not my native tongue either, so don't even go there.

[Wartex]

DeWalt was bought out by Black and Decker over ten years ago. The DeWalt name was retained because Black and Decker could not sell it's ProLine range into the professional market due to branding resistance (the proline wasn't that bad BUT Black and Decker was associated with home/diy and NO professional would land on site with one in his toolbox). Roll on Ten years and the local production site at Spennymoor in the UK is long since gone and the Black and Decker mentality of cheap and cheerful has won the day. The bottom line is that the user will vote with their wallet, and price is NOT the bottom line. Most of the users are paid by results and when the drill stops they stop earning! It won't take long for the name of DeWalt to become scoffed at and replaced by Bosch,Makita or numerous others. Great Shame that a fine machine is crippled by short sighted management who just do not understand their market.

Black and Decker was bought by Stanley recently. I'm sure all these changes come from MBA retards at Stanley.

[shadowless]

A123 are amazing stuff compared to lithium ion.


http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5549-Chrysler-announces-Samsung-as-A123-replacement.

[BrickBoiler]

Around here we're seeing ryobi becoming like black&decker, (ie rubbish) the last ryobi orbital sander we got lasted for a couple of jobs before the vibration broke all the plastic mounts inside.

Same here too, but they are cheap as hell so that's what some of the guys get when only sticker price matters.

[Frangible]

I'm not particularly enthused with Makita these days either.  Both of the 14.4V packs that came with my drill are dead - and at $75 each I'm not going to replace them - especially since the drill cost $150 for the two batteries, a drill motor, charger, case and bonus toolbelt.

[nukie]

I went in to our local big B hardware store recently and picked up a yellow D cordless drill. Made in big C worlds factory. I scoff at it in a huge disappointment. Likewise for a Makxxx cordless drill. I looked at my fav brand Bosch, made in somewhere in Asia too. It's no Festool but Bosch always impress me. With tools I tend to buy those which are Not made the same country as my electonics. Even with hand tools you will notice the difference in feel when using it.

[RCMR]

As the old saying goes:  there's no such thing as a cheap tool.

[Wartex]

I'm not particularly enthused with Makita these days either.  Both of the 14.4V packs that came with my drill are dead - and at $75 each I'm not going to replace them - especially since the drill cost $150 for the two batteries, a drill motor, charger, case and bonus toolbelt.

I have a feeling you kept them discharged for a long time. That's your fault, not Makita's.

[Frangible]

I'm not particularly enthused with Makita these days either.  Both of the 14.4V packs that came with my drill are dead - and at $75 each I'm not going to replace them - especially since the drill cost $150 for the two batteries, a drill motor, charger, case and bonus toolbelt.

I have a feeling you kept them discharged for a long time. That's your fault, not Makita's.

I have a feeling you're wrong.  I know how to keep NiMh batteries maintained properly - and it's not just a matter of keeping the pack in the charger cooking away.  The battery had a weak sister - it gave up before the rest of the cells did.  That is clearly Makita's (or whomever made the batteries for them) fault.  Quit making unsubstantiated accusations before you have all the facts.

[IanB]

I'm not particularly enthused with Makita these days either.  Both of the 14.4V packs that came with my drill are dead - and at $75 each I'm not going to replace them - especially since the drill cost $150 for the two batteries, a drill motor, charger, case and bonus toolbelt.

I have a feeling you kept them discharged for a long time. That's your fault, not Makita's.

I have a feeling you're wrong.  I know how to keep NiMh batteries maintained properly - and it's not just a matter of keeping the pack in the charger cooking away.  The battery had a weak sister - it gave up before the rest of the cells did.  That is clearly Makita's (or whomever made the batteries for them) fault.  Quit making unsubstantiated accusations before you have all the facts.

As a general observation, optimum care of batteries depends on the specific type. With NiMH, they actually last best if you store them in a mostly discharged state and charge them up just before use. Storing NiMH cells charged (apart from the newer low self-discharge variety) is a quick way to shorten their life (and by this I mean charging them up and taking them off the charger for storage, not just leaving them on the charger to trickle charge).

Lithium ion cells also last best if stored in a mostly discharged state, but to avoid the voltage going too low it is best to put about 40% charge in them.

On the other hand, lead acid batteries of all types should be stored fully charged, and kept on a float charger if possible.

In summary, if you want to kill your power tools charge them up and put them away. It won't take too long for them to die that way.

[Wartex]

I'm not particularly enthused with Makita these days either.  Both of the 14.4V packs that came with my drill are dead - and at $75 each I'm not going to replace them - especially since the drill cost $150 for the two batteries, a drill motor, charger, case and bonus toolbelt.

I have a feeling you kept them discharged for a long time. That's your fault, not Makita's.

I have a feeling you're wrong.  I know how to keep NiMh batteries maintained properly - and it's not just a matter of keeping the pack in the charger cooking away.  The battery had a weak sister - it gave up before the rest of the cells did.  That is clearly Makita's (or whomever made the batteries for them) fault.  Quit making unsubstantiated accusations before you have all the facts.

Sorry, I assumed they were Li-Ion because we are talking about li-ion. If they are NiMH and died within 2 years, there was a problem with them. On the other hand, you can get them for $35 a piece on eBay, brand new.