Author Topic: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack  (Read 105061 times)

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Offline dvd4me

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SV10 (V7) battery gauge model - continued
« Reply #100 on: February 28, 2022, 04:42:05 pm »
Hello,

The V7 pack I have is an SV10 model ( on the label) that has level gauge implemented with 3 blue LED's .
While still playing with the eeprom data to figure out more, about how data changes during different operations, I was having the blue charge light on while there was no current draw. I was like, what happens, the charge FET is not opening? Did I change something in the eeprom map that did this?
I restored the exact working data as I saved before unbalancing the pack to make-it fail and the result - still not drawing charge current. I took the pack at work to check-it more and dig-it under the silicone.
Since all the parts are also covered in lacquer, you have to use solvent to remove the coating and have a good contact to measure. I did-it with some acetone I found around.
I was able to found the F2 ( as in tinfever SV09 schematics ) burned.
So it is possible to burn that little fuse ( my power supply was on 1A but I suspect the current limit does not act instantly, so it must have overshoot -  output capacitor discharge - and burned the fuse)
As a note, the eeprom data is containing the battery level, when I restored the complete map, I had the level gauges light up as "FULL"  - 3 blue on - while the pack was actually discharged, I was draining it to complete a cycle when I burned the F2 fuse. There is still a lot to dig into this packs. It seems like the SV03 eeprom map has limited uses, restoring that in a SV09 or SV10 it's not suitable.
I found, for example, that discharge is not run up to the 3.1V / cell when the eeprom data is messed up, there must be some pack specific settings in the eeprom map.
That being said, kind of reinforce my assumption that one cannot restore data from other packs to unlock any failed BMS, has to be kept the same data there...
I will try to find something to replace that tiny thing.
Edit: fixed with a similar size fuse from a lcd signal strip, was faster than ordering.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 04:24:06 am by dvd4me »
 

Offline tinfever

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #101 on: March 01, 2022, 09:54:35 pm »
I'm glad my schematic helped! That battery gas gauge is interesting. If they implemented that thoroughly by recording charge and discharge current draw over time, it would make sense they'd need to store some parameters in the EEPROM. I'm kind of curious how different that board is compared with either the SV11 (the first schematic I did) or the SV09 board in terms of wiring layout. They might have just replaced the single RGB LED with three separate ones and left everything else the same. Then the MCU just needs different firmware to drive the LEDs differently. That would also mean any firmware I make might work fine, but would just have LEDs that are driven oddly or nonsensically.

The SV11 and SV09 don't have any way for the MCU to monitor the charging current, so either Dyson added a trace for that from the charging current shunt to the MCU, or they are just watching for the battery to complete a charging cycle, calling that "full", and then just monitoring the current draw * time to determine battery capacity until low voltage cut out. That would mean that doing a partial battery charge could confuse it though.

If it were me, and I wasn't just doing it the cheap and easy way of hardcoding battery pack voltages to certain battery levels, and I didn't have a way to monitor charging current, I'd have a fall back mode that uses the pack voltage to determine battery level if there was a partial battery charge or if there is too much difference between the battery level from recorded usage vs measured pack voltage. Or they could have just used a separate battery gas gauge IC, just like they added separate over-charge voltage protection ICs on the SV11.

Thinking about it more, if they just trust the charger is a relatively accurate constant current, they could determine charging current * time just by watching the charging time and assuming a hard coded charge current.

Edit: I see now there are four LEDs on that SV10, they are very likely using one of the spare pins on the PIC with an extra trace.

Oh, sorry, didn't read that. Will make a test.

Edit: Meh, doesn't seem to work. IPE is newer, but buggy and slow as hell.

It seems the programmer reads the memory first to preserve it when told so, and of course that won't work with CP set.

Maybe the programming algorithm changes between standard and standalone firmwares.

Thanks for confirming.  :-+ Nothing worse than buggy software!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 09:56:28 pm by tinfever »
 

Offline tinfever

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #102 on: March 01, 2022, 11:20:45 pm »
dvd4me, do you know if all of the original Dyson BMS boards you've worked on have 10k thermistors? I've only desoldered the very first BMS and ripped out the thermistor legs in the process. I've been having a very hard time measuring the thermistor in-circuit too.

I did manage to jam some wires in to the epoxy where the ripped out legs were and measured roughly 10k at room temperature so I'm pretty sure it's a 10k on the SV11 but I'm not sure about any others.
 
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Offline tinfever

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2022, 12:38:53 am »
I've got most of the functions put together for the firmware and so now I need to stop procrastinating on sorting out the details. I've put together a finite state machine diagram showing how I'm thinking the firmware would work. I don't have any major concerns with this, although I still need to mentally run through all the different scenarios to make sure I haven't missed anything, but I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Any feedback would be appreciated! :)


« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 12:45:33 am by tinfever »
 
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Offline dvd4me

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2022, 04:20:35 am »
dvd4me, do you know if all of the original Dyson BMS boards you've worked on have 10k thermistors? I've only desoldered the very first BMS and ripped out the thermistor legs in the process. I've been having a very hard time measuring the thermistor in-circuit too.

I did manage to jam some wires in to the epoxy where the ripped out legs were and measured roughly 10k at room temperature so I'm pretty sure it's a 10k on the SV11 but I'm not sure about any others.
Hello tinfever, sorry for the late reply, I have missed the notification about your post. Yes, they are 10k on the Dyson BMS's. I replaced a broken one from a laptop battery, they have same value ( most of them).
Congrats on the functions chart you build, I believe you're becoming expert on the ISL chip functions and how to implement them with the hardware on the Dyson BMS.
A BMS that does not need to be " unlocked" every now and then and also safe is tempting.
But I believe you're lifting most of the weight on this. I took the lazy path of the eeprom reset, it's good enough for me. I can balance or re-cell a pack in the future plus I have now 3 packs in working order with the original BMS. Way more that I need, considering my Dyson it's only a basement tool for now, not used very often.
 
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Offline MIS42N

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #105 on: March 13, 2022, 04:44:57 am »
Thank you people. I acquired a Dyson DC59 which the owner said "sort of works". I pressed the trigger and got the RFOD (red flash of death). I followed what now turns out to be a well trodden path. Pulled the battery case off, made a jig to charge the individual cells (using the electronics from a cheap backup bank, so cutting off at the right time). All Charged to between 4.04 and 4.08V (after resting for a day). No joy (as expected, had I read this thread first). Started searching and lucked onto this thread, searching for Dyson and PIC16LF1847. Fortunately the board (probably old) had no coating so not too hard to identify some of the chips.

The control board looked identical to that posted by tinfever (thank you, sir) and I have a PICkit 3 so followed the video posted by dvd4me (than you, also) and the battery reset just as the video said it would. It is not a complete success, The vacuum cleaner runs for about 40 seconds then says it needs charging. However, if one runs it for 30 seconds, release trigger for a few seconds, it will run for another 30 seconds. This can be repeated for at least 15 minutes. It is ideal for getting into odd corners and cleaning the car, so one happy camper.

I figured this is going to happen again, so I made an "adapter" to connect the PICkit to the board. It is a wooden clothes peg with bits of a wooden drink stirrer glued on. The contacts to the board are made by dressmaker pins on the ends of wires. A couple of cable ties and some 5 minute epoxy holds everything together. It took about an hour to make. The pins are not located as well as they could be, the holes are tight so the pins need a bit of fiddling to get proper contact and the wood split a bit.  If I were to do it again, I'd do it a bit different. I'd use a fine blade saw to cut slots for the pins, then to hold the pins in place have a strip of rubber band. That would have a bit of 'give' when the pins are clamped, to give more reliable contact. All that said, the current version works well enough I don't think I'll make another one as it may get used a couple of times a year.

 
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Offline dvd4me

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #106 on: March 13, 2022, 04:57:17 pm »
It is not a complete success, The vacuum cleaner runs for about 40 seconds then says it needs charging. However, if one runs it for 30 seconds, release trigger for a few seconds, it will run for another 30 seconds. This can be repeated for at least 15 minutes.
I believe it should be a complete success...  :D. I believe you're running in "turbo" mode, while motor running, press on the motor area where is that turbo button, just to make sure. Switch turbo off only works while motor it's running, does nothing when it's off.
Batteries are probably getting weaker but it should at least last longer than 40 seconds in normal mode. Try and let us know.
If you keep balancing the cells every now and then, you will never need to reset the pack again. If you try to replace the cells then maybe you will need to reset.
Good job confirming that it works the reset.
 

Offline tinfever

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #107 on: March 13, 2022, 08:35:31 pm »
Thank you people. I acquired a Dyson DC59 which the owner said "sort of works". I pressed the trigger and got the RFOD (red flash of death). I followed what now turns out to be a well trodden path. Pulled the battery case off, made a jig to charge the individual cells (using the electronics from a cheap backup bank, so cutting off at the right time). All Charged to between 4.04 and 4.08V (after resting for a day). No joy (as expected, had I read this thread first). Started searching and lucked onto this thread, searching for Dyson and PIC16LF1847. Fortunately the board (probably old) had no coating so not too hard to identify some of the chips.

The control board looked identical to that posted by tinfever (thank you, sir) and I have a PICkit 3 so followed the video posted by dvd4me (than you, also) and the battery reset just as the video said it would. It is not a complete success, The vacuum cleaner runs for about 40 seconds then says it needs charging. However, if one runs it for 30 seconds, release trigger for a few seconds, it will run for another 30 seconds. This can be repeated for at least 15 minutes. It is ideal for getting into odd corners and cleaning the car, so one happy camper.

I figured this is going to happen again, so I made an "adapter" to connect the PICkit to the board. It is a wooden clothes peg with bits of a wooden drink stirrer glued on. The contacts to the board are made by dressmaker pins on the ends of wires. A couple of cable ties and some 5 minute epoxy holds everything together. It took about an hour to make. The pins are not located as well as they could be, the holes are tight so the pins need a bit of fiddling to get proper contact and the wood split a bit.  If I were to do it again, I'd do it a bit different. I'd use a fine blade saw to cut slots for the pins, then to hold the pins in place have a strip of rubber band. That would have a bit of 'give' when the pins are clamped, to give more reliable contact. All that said, the current version works well enough I don't think I'll make another one as it may get used a couple of times a year.
(Attachment Link)


Thanks for reporting your results! I'm glad to hear some of this helped!  ;D

If I had to guess, at least one of the cells in your battery pack has probably deteriorated to the point that it only takes about 40 seconds for the cell to reach the low voltage cut out of 3V (I think?). Then the BMS sets a flag that prevents enabling the output of the battery any further until you put it on the charger.

I've implemented the same thing in my firmware (more information to come in the future) because otherwise, once you hit the cut out voltage and turn off the output, the battery cell voltage actually recovers by sometimes 500mV, which would mean you'd no longer be at the low voltage cut out level and the output could be enabled again. Thus, you end up oscillating between output on > cell voltage too low > output off > cell voltage recovers > repeat. I considered just requiring the trigger to be released and repressed before re-enabling the output, but my thinking was that if the cell voltage is low enough to have it cut out once, it probably wouldn't be good for the cells, very useful in general, or provide a very good user experience to be able to pull the trigger again and get another few seconds of output time.

I'm guessing when you release the trigger before the low voltage cutout is reached, you're giving the failing cell(s) a chance to recover a bit, and thus able to prevent it from actually reaching the cutout point. In theory if you reduced the current draw, you could have a disproportionally longer amount of usage time before reaching the cutout point, but unless dvd4me's suggestion that you might be in turbo mode is correct, I don't think that's possible.

Thinking out loud here: I already have an easy way to define the low voltage cutout point in my firmware, so I wonder if moving the cutout from 3V to 2.9V would make a major difference in your case. If the cell resistance is just higher than usual, thus the voltage under load is lower that usual, that might help? I wouldn't make that change in an official release but I do wonder if tuning that would help in your specific scenario. Also, I could add a setting that disables the low voltage "no output until charger connected" lockout and instead just required you to release the trigger, since I hadn't considered that some people might find even 30 second bursts of usable output to be helpful.
 

Offline MIS42N

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #108 on: March 13, 2022, 10:23:20 pm »
I am using the cleaner in normal mode. Turbo mode runs for a few seconds, then cuts out.

I find the behaviour of (30 seconds on, 10 seconds off, repeat) to be odd. If heating was a problem then it should be detectable after doing this for 10 minutes (and it isn't). If a cell is dodgy, 10 seconds doesn't seem like sufficient time to recover, especially if the cycle is repeated many times.

After putting the partially discharged cleaner on the charger and recharging, the first time the trigger was pulled it ran for more than a minute before cutting out. I don't know enough about the battery chemistry to know if internal resistance rises if the battery is not exercised, and a few charges will 'rejuvenate' it. It was in a cupboard presumably not charged for over a year. After getting the RFOD I checked the cell voltages, the lowest was 3.6V and the highest 3.9V. From reading here, it seems the 300mV difference is enough to trigger the RFOD. I charged them individually so they should be balanced for a while. Before assembling the pack the difference was 40mV. Unfortunately, measuring the cells is incompatible with using the cleaner, so for the moment I am limited to reporting the behaviour of the cleaner.

I should run it on the 30/10 second cycle until it stops, to see how long that takes. Another day.
 
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Offline dvd4me

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2022, 11:00:02 pm »
I am using the cleaner in normal mode. Turbo mode runs for a few seconds, then cuts out.
 Another day.

Hello, it seems that keeping the cells not used and fully charged increases the internal resistance of the cells.
Because they evolved differently, their self discharge rate was not equal and got unbalanced.
You need to exercise the cells, full discharge, close to 3V, let them rest and recover, keep draining again until 3V, until they cannot recover anymore.
To do this, you can drain the pack externally until 3.0V with a load connected directly on the cells or the whole pack, similar with what I did, like a car lamp bulb or something similar.
Do not worry to trigger any fault since you can reset again. After discharge you can plug the charger.
Doing this charge - discharge cycle you will notice if any cell got weaker and it might trigger the red flashing light lock later.

I am experimenting now with some cells ( taken out of what it was a Ryobi 40V pack) that were completely dead ( not leaked ) and to my surprise, they take and hold a charge and the tested capacity it's actual around 1900mAh.
These cells were in pairs of 2, like the one in the pictures. I will try to test them all to have a conclusion. As you can see they are 0.02V initial voltage..  :o
Pre-charging them from 0 to 2.5 V has to be done in very low, like 100mA max current, that charger does this based on the internal resistance measured and not chemistry.
I know this is not exactly safe but I keep an eye on them to check the temperature while charging, at any warm sign I stop charging. I will report back in couple of day, if nothing happens...

Interesting relevant info about maximum discharge voltage here: https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryLowVoltage%20UK.html

Conclusion from that site is that under 3.0V might not be much energy left anyway, so no need to go further discharged. Below 2.0V is not recommended to go as capacity is affected.

So there is hope your cells will improve after couple of charge to full discharge ( 3.0V) cycles. Try that.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 01:09:31 am by dvd4me »
 

Offline GoneTomorrow

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2022, 03:46:34 am »
Quite a bit in this thread, haven't had time to read it all yet.

Anyway, I've had this Dyson DC34 handheld for like almost 10 years now (bought in 2013 or 2014). It gets used most days and is still on it's original battery (22.2V, 1300mAh) and still works fine, not even sure it's lost much runtime. But I've been toying with replacing the cells with something like 30Q 3000mAh just to get more runtime since I made a floor wand for it.

Don't know if this BMS will lock down if you disconnect the power, but was wondering if anyone had used a bench PSU and resistor divider to make the pack swap invisible? So you'd solder on the resistor divider across the cells and then apply the pack voltage via PSU, should simulate a 6 cell battery while you disconnect and swap out the cells.

Probably be a pain in the arse to work around while swapping the cells, might just be easier to go with the wun wing lo replacement BMS. but could be worth a try.
 

Offline dvd4me

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #111 on: March 29, 2022, 01:58:47 pm »
Quite a bit in this thread, haven't had time to read it all yet.

don't know if this BMS will lock down if you disconnect the power, but was wondering if anyone had used a bench PSU and resistor divider to make the pack swap invisible? So you'd solder on the resistor
Hello, yes you can try the trick with the divider. In one of the pictures I put here I was probing the eeprom map, to unlock, on a bms with no batteries, just a resistor network and power supply. And I unlock-it with no batteries. Of course you cannot plug the charger with no batteries.
Some people swapped the cells without locking the pack, because the pack goes into deep sleep after some time following a button depress. The button is the key to wake up the bms. That's when it will lock.
If you can secure the button not to be activated by mistake, once the bms goes into sleep you can disconnect the cells without worries, it will not care about the cells.
Change the cells ( around the same voltage as the pack ) and once you depress the button it will be like nothing happens.

To have an idea open the pack to see what it is inside, it may not be based on the PIC controller.
I tried and successfully re-cell a laptop battery using this method of ghosting the cells on the pack while changing them. I also revived very discharged laptop batteries.

Even if you lock your dyson BMS then you can unlock-it. Or even better you can test your cells swap on a already locked battery then unlock-it.
You only need the PICkit 3 that goes under 20$. Overall you are much cheaper then buying a new original battery.

Regards
 

Offline GoneTomorrow

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #112 on: March 29, 2022, 08:49:19 pm »
Is that a button on the battery itself? The DC34 (Type B) pack seems a bit dumber, it doesn't have any buttons or LEDs on it. I've heard vague ideas that this pack therefore is pretty easy to repack without bricking, so might just be worth a shot. I wanted to try acquire someone elses already dead pack to play with so I don't wreck my still-good one, found someone but they are taking the piss and won't budge on $20 for a dead pack :-DD

Any tips on opening without chowdering the casing too much? I've seen using thin steel spudgers to depress all 6? of the clips holding the halves together.
 

Offline dvd4me

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #113 on: March 29, 2022, 11:00:58 pm »
Hi, I opened  them by slowly inserting a flat thin metal thingy to lift up each tab and then insert a guitar pick to keep the tab disengaged. I lift the bottom and the sides first.
Top ones are the last. I cut off the side tabs ( the inside raised part) for eventual future opening. I have no good receipt for a perfect opening, it will show anyway.
Balancing can be done eventually without opening, by drilling small holes on the side, to be able to touch the tabs of the cells. This is a 'meh' type of solution...
These batteries are becoming more and more "user serviceable" so it seems the people finding them in the recycling starting to increase the price.  :(

I am surprised there is no LED and no trigger button, I had the impression Dy'sons are born like that...  :-DD

Update: I saw on the net your battery DC34 or 35 I believe, there is a different type of BMS, I saw no pads to access any connection. It may not be based on PIC32, It was not a clear picture.

Cheers
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 10:37:52 pm by dvd4me »
 

Offline GoneTomorrow

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #114 on: March 30, 2022, 01:57:29 am »
Just looked up the V7 battery see what the fuss is about. Weird!

Yeah this one is quite different and is basically just a bog standard battery with terminals. Not sure the mechanism then of sleep/wake up with only the main power connecting to the unit.



 
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Offline suenbrad

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2022, 12:12:50 am »
Hi, can I compare you? If I want to replace a V6 battery with a red light on the old 18650 battery with 6 batteries and replace it with a new battery, what should I do in the step-by-step procedure, please teach me. thanks
 

Offline shein

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2022, 02:54:38 pm »
Hi there!

Awesome work you guys have done!
Have you seen that some guy have implemented open source firmware for those batteries?
https://github.com/dr-mark-roberts/open-dyson-battery
It's kind of limited functionality but I've been running it in my V6 and V8 batteries for several months with no issues.

 
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Offline dvd4me

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #117 on: April 22, 2022, 03:51:51 pm »
Hi there!

Awesome work you guys have done!
Have you seen that some guy have implemented open source firmware for those batteries?
https://github.com/dr-mark-roberts/open-dyson-battery
It's kind of limited functionality but I've been running it in my V6 and V8 batteries for several months with no issues.
That's great, there was another contributor here trying to make a similar firmware, not sure if he succeeded or not.
I just looked into the git-hub project.
It was easier for me to just do a simple eeprom change than to try to understand how to compile the hex and to program-it to the PIC32.
How did you actually used that git-hub files? Some users may have erased completely their PIC32 by mistake so it could be good to try to gain at least some functionality.
Explain in couple of steps how do you load a new program into PIC32. What hex file you use from that Git-hub?
Thanks
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #118 on: April 22, 2022, 06:07:24 pm »
Hi there!

Awesome work you guys have done!
Have you seen that some guy have implemented open source firmware for those batteries?
https://github.com/dr-mark-roberts/open-dyson-battery
It's kind of limited functionality but I've been running it in my V6 and V8 batteries for several months with no issues.
That's great, there was another contributor here trying to make a similar firmware, not sure if he succeeded or not.
I just looked into the git-hub project.
It was easier for me to just do a simple eeprom change than to try to understand how to compile the hex and to program-it to the PIC32.
How did you actually used that git-hub files? Some users may have erased completely their PIC32 by mistake so it could be good to try to gain at least some functionality.
Explain in couple of steps how do you load a new program into PIC32. What hex file you use from that Git-hub?
Thanks

It's as simple as installing the correct version PIC32 tools onto your linux machine, clone the git repo and type "make flash".
The Makefile knows everything you need to build and flash the firmware.
There's no ready made hex file in this repo that you could use.
Safety devices hinder evolution
 

Offline suenbrad

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2022, 05:05:00 am »
Thanks for your reply, I learned a lot.
I'll explain my handler first to see where the error is.
1. I went to buy a middle-aged dyson v6 battery. It can be charged normally. Press the button on the battery to display a blue light, but the recharge efficiency is not good.
2. Disassemble the battery box and connect the balance charger to several nodes to charge, fully charge the battery, and then start to balance the voltage to 3.9V for every 6 18650 battery. The battery box button should be fixed first to prevent it from being triggered.
3. In addition, connect 6 brand new 18650 batteries (SONY VTC5A 2600mah) in series, and the balance voltage is 3.9v for each battery.
4. Disconnect the 18650 on the balanced v6 battery from the protection board and replace it with a brand new 18650 battery. Connect all contacts on the protection board.
5. Double-check that each battery is the same voltage as the old battery that was replaced. Press the button on the battery. The protection board can work normally by turning on the blue light first and then the green light.
6. After the battery box cover is installed, use the charger to fully charge the battery, and the process is normal.
7. Here comes the problem. When I plug in the vacuum cleaner to test it, the red light turns on and it doesn't turn at all. May I ask you to know which program I did wrong? That's why I can't move, please tell me.
 

Offline lern01

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2022, 08:17:48 am »
Hello, how is the firmware going? Thank you for your hard work!
 

Offline tinfever

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Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #121 on: April 28, 2022, 06:00:36 pm »
Thanks for your reply, I learned a lot.
I'll explain my handler first to see where the error is.
1. I went to buy a middle-aged dyson v6 battery. It can be charged normally. Press the button on the battery to display a blue light, but the recharge efficiency is not good.
2. Disassemble the battery box and connect the balance charger to several nodes to charge, fully charge the battery, and then start to balance the voltage to 3.9V for every 6 18650 battery. The battery box button should be fixed first to prevent it from being triggered.
3. In addition, connect 6 brand new 18650 batteries (SONY VTC5A 2600mah) in series, and the balance voltage is 3.9v for each battery.
4. Disconnect the 18650 on the balanced v6 battery from the protection board and replace it with a brand new 18650 battery. Connect all contacts on the protection board.
5. Double-check that each battery is the same voltage as the old battery that was replaced. Press the button on the battery. The protection board can work normally by turning on the blue light first and then the green light.
6. After the battery box cover is installed, use the charger to fully charge the battery, and the process is normal.
7. Here comes the problem. When I plug in the vacuum cleaner to test it, the red light turns on and it doesn't turn at all. May I ask you to know which program I did wrong? That's why I can't move, please tell me.

If I'm understanding correctly, you replaced all of the battery cells, the cells were all balanced when connected, the battery charged correctly after you replaced the cells, but when you depress the button on the battery, the LED just shows solid red?  If that's the case, you've encountered an error I'm not familiar with.

If you had tripped some sort of lockout on the BMS, I'd expect it to give you some sort of red LED blink error code and neither charge or discharge. If it is charging fine, then I'm not sure what is happening. Have you tested the battery outside the vacuum? You might try connecting a multimeter to the output and pressing the button to see if the output is enabled. Unless you place a load of at least 1-2A on the pack, the output will be disabled automatically after a few seconds though.

Theoretically, if there was a short circuit inside you vacuum, I could see that being detected by the BMS and causing your issue, but I've never tested that and that's just a wild guess for why a battery might work fine outside a vacuum but then not work inside a vacuum.

Hello, how is the firmware going? Thank you for your hard work!

I'm still here and working on it.  :) I may have mentioned it was almost done before...well now it's even more almost done. haha

The firmware is feature complete. I've tested nearly all the protection systems and features. Essentially the only thing left is documentation, I should test it on a V6 battery to make sure the firmware is compatible with both V7 (that I've been developing on) and V6 batteries, and I need to put the battery in my refrigerator to test the low temperature protection  ;D Oh, I also need to actually use it to vacuum my apartment as a real world test.

I was aiming for release yesterday...and then the day before that...and then the day before that. So ETA...today? tomorrow? Within a week? Soon™
 

Offline lern01

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  • Country: cn
Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #122 on: April 29, 2022, 02:24:07 am »
look forward to.....
 

Offline suenbrad

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  • Country: tw
Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #123 on: April 29, 2022, 10:50:41 am »
Hello everyone:
    Continue today's unfinished work. After replacing 6 new 18650 batteries according to the last steps,
The red light is on when the vacuum cleaner fails to start. So I went to get a brushless motor and installed it directly at the power output,
When the button is pressed, the motor can operate normally, and it is normal to continue pressing for up to 20 seconds. So doubt
Is it a problem with the board itself. Take the battery to discharge, put the original 26V into 22V, and then install the vacuum cleaner.
is able to operate normally. But when the battery was recharged to 26V he couldn't run again.
    Fortunately, I still have a battery with poor power storage, and this time I replaced it with a new 18650 battery. All programs are the same as last time
The same, but there is one more step, that is, before the battery is disconnected from the protection board, there is an external connection at each node.
A battery of the same size will keep the protection board powered even after it is disconnected (because I'm not sure if
There will still be problems), as a result, after replacing the new battery, remove the external battery. Balance the battery to 24V first, then install
The vacuum cleaner test finally succeeded and works fine. It is normal to continue to charge to 26V.
    The point is not very sure if the battery is successfully replaced because there is continuous power supply to the disconnected protection board. still is
There is a problem with the original protection board itself, and then we will study it.
 

Offline Hank

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  • Posts: 6
  • Country: nl
Re: Dyson v7 Trigger cordless vacuum - TEARDOWN of battery pack
« Reply #124 on: April 29, 2022, 12:09:49 pm »
Hi there, at first I'd like to give some kudos to tinfever for his immaculate work and dedication on this.
I wish I had read this thread more thoroughly, so I wouldn't have bricked my battery. :palm:
I used Mplab X V6.00, and thought to have ticked all of the right boxes, but to no avail, so I have one more original pack, which I don't wanna brick.
So please help me out on this, I made a 5 wire cable with 5 pins, is it safe to plug it into the Pickit 3, while the latter is connected to the PC?
The next step seems to be to press the button on the pack, to power the PIC, and continue with the next step, just wanna be safe and not sorry.
I also have an alternative pack, of which the cells are completely shot, but maybe, just maybe, the MPU is not read-protected.
Unfortunately, the numbering has been erased, but I'll post some pics later on, it might be helpful in engineering new FW.

Oh, it's about a DC61 for a V6.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 12:38:01 pm by Hank »
 


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