Author Topic: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??  (Read 665635 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1675 on: May 08, 2015, 07:50:15 pm »
btw i'm on WinXP old driver. so this auto-update-brick crap (which i'm sure can be disabled in ctl panel) is invisible to me hence i'm invinsible, for now. i dont blame ftdi i'll continue to support them, they paid subscription to ftdi-fi, paid real engineers and all. its just their action brick without warning is too noob for a professional person. the engineer responsible for this or the GM who made the decision must be too young to know what life is.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 07:52:44 pm by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Liv

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1676 on: January 15, 2016, 08:35:23 pm »
I wrote a utility for Windows to determine and recovery of counterfeit FT232RL chips. Recovery is possible using a modified driver (inf files attached).
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 08:36:58 pm by Liv »
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Offline XFDDesign

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1677 on: January 16, 2016, 01:03:13 am »
Nice! Thank you for that!
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1678 on: January 16, 2016, 03:04:00 am »
That is a very nice utility, Liv! I can attest it reliably detected a Genuine FT232 part from this kit.
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Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1679 on: January 16, 2016, 04:47:31 am »
Note that it gives false positives on "programmed" devices.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline Liv

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1680 on: January 16, 2016, 05:14:34 am »
Note that it gives false positives on "programmed" devices.

What does it mean? For the authentication of the chip I attempt to write to the EEPROM at an even address (0x3e). If the attempt is successful, it is a fake. VID and PID values are not affected.

Older FT232BM with an external EEPROM is also determined as a fake. Probably the driver from FTDI they will be brick it.
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Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1681 on: January 16, 2016, 05:30:40 am »
I tried to test some of my FDTI devices where one is definitely a fake (infamous Gamebuino) others are most likely genuine and one or two are suspicious (pin 1 marking, font) but not detected by the EEPROM approach.
Anyway your program always detected a fake - which puzzled me until I noticed that it obviously always investigated my ScanaPlus logic analyzer..
It contains an FT232H which is most certainly genuine, but MProg reports it as "programmed", so the EEPROM is write protected.
So for some reason your tool mistakes the write protection for "programmed" devices as indication for being fake - which it isn't.
Side note: it would make a lot of sense to be able to select the device if there is more than one.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline Liv

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1682 on: January 16, 2016, 05:58:37 am »
Side note: it would make a lot of sense to be able to select the device if there is more than one.

This is true, but I still did not complicate the utility. With its use it is necessary to disconnect all FT devices except one. If it is connected to multiple FT devices, the utility will report an error 'More than one FT device found, error.".

MProg reports it as "programmed", so the EEPROM is write protected.

It is possible to protect the EEPROM? I do not know of such a possibility. If the EEPROM is really write-protected, the utility would report that the device is GENUINE. About behavior of FT232H I do not know, such devices must be disconnected when using of the utility.
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Online Kjelt

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1683 on: January 16, 2016, 08:26:23 pm »
FTDI should write such a program you can test if the chips you bought are genuine or not without destroying them, if not genuine you can return them at once with the printout report.
 

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1684 on: January 17, 2016, 12:19:40 am »
Even when the driver was released, it couldn't detect all the clones and I think the Chinese cloners quickly worked around it.
I guess if they had a better way of detecting clones than the EEPROM trick, they would have used it.
They could add some better detection to new revisions but than they still couldn't tell if an IC without this new detection mechanism is a clone or a older genuine one.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline Liv

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1685 on: January 17, 2016, 02:20:11 am »
Detecting counterfeit should be exactly the same algorithm, how does the driver. If the driver does not detect a fake, then the chip will work fine. In this situation, the user does not matter, it is an original or a fake chip.
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Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1686 on: January 17, 2016, 04:18:36 am »
I guess you're still using the same algorithm that was discussed here in October 2014 and that was known to be used by the driver back then.
I just wanted to clarify that even 15 months ago it detected only a part of the clones that behaved differently regarding EEPROM access.
Admittedly most people who just use the FTDI chip as UART converter won't notice that they use clones. Then again, in more advanced use cases (JTAG / logic analyzers and the like) a clone might give different results than the original. Anyway I think that most people wouldn't willingly buy clones and would be interested to have a bullet-proof way of testing - and this is obviously something that can't be done by SW at the moment. Well letting aside the old school clones that still are detectable by the EEPROM trick.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline cfauvel

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1687 on: January 20, 2016, 08:35:55 am »
Hello everybody,

I recently made a design with an FT232H USB to UART bridge. In my configuration, the FT232 chip is powered by the USB and there is no EEPROM attached to it, which should be ok as stated in the datasheet.

After receiving and testing the two boards, I tried to plug the USB to my PC under Windows 7 (64 bits) and got an "Unknown USB peripheral" message. I then checked the voltages and clock of the FTDI and everything was fine. I was vaguely aware of the fact that some FTDI chips were bricked by the new driver (thanks to Dave's video), so I emailed FTDI and asked them what to do. They tell me to remove every FTDI drivers (CDC Uninstaller) and to update the drivers with the archive in their website. I tried that procedure and, at the end of the install process, my device shows up with a nice VID/PID identical to the one given in the datasheet. I was so happy that I soon unplugged my board to test the other one. I was unable to make the same miracle a second time. I tried to remove and reinstall the software but nothing worked. Re-plugging the "good" board was not successful either. Windows stupidly set the VID/PID of the two boards to 0000. The first batch of components where bought on Mouser, so I ordered two new components and resolder one board to tackle the "genuine" issue. The hardware was valid (voltages and clock) but no device shows up under Windows.

A few hours later and a lot of messing around with Windows, I try it on a Linux machine (Ubuntu 14.04 64 bits). I was unable to see the device enumeration in dmesg but had a bunch of lines saying that the device doesn't accept the address (device not accepting address xx, error -71). During the enumeration process, the kernel have used the xhci driver. The same issue was visible for both boards.

Finally, I plugged the boards to another Linux machine (Debian 8, 32 bits). Dmesg showed some errors with the "device not accepting address" thing with the ehci_pci driver and then, out of the blue, some lines saying: "using the uhci driver" and a nice "FT232H device detected" with the good values for the VID and PID. I made the same test with the second board and get a success for this one also. I made a small script in Python + MPSSE and was able to blink an LED. Hurrayyy !

I then unplugged and re-plugged the boards several times and everything still works in the Debian 8 machine. Nothing new concerning the Windows or the Ubuntu machines. I then test the boards on two other machines, one with a Debian 6 and one with a Debian 8. The Debian 8 machine showed the same dmesg and enumeration was successful. The Debian 6 didn't recognize the FTDI chip.

I tried a lot of things such as loading the "usb_old_sheme" thing, disabling the "usb_suspend" and loading the uhci and ohci drivers but still get the same enumeration issue !

Do you have some fresh insight for me, I'm really disappointed at the moment !
Thanks in advance,

Best regards,
Christophe

PS: I have ordered an EEPROM and will solder a nice little buggy board over the FTDI to see if this bloody chip will be more sympathetic.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1688 on: January 20, 2016, 08:40:28 am »
Such significant enumeration issues suggest a hardware problem.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1689 on: January 20, 2016, 08:45:17 am »
After receiving and testing the two boards, I tried to plug the USB to my PC under Windows 7 (64 bits) and got an "Unknown USB peripheral" message. I then checked the voltages and clock of the FTDI and everything was fine. I was vaguely aware of the fact that some FTDI chips were bricked by the new driver (thanks to Dave's video), so I emailed FTDI and asked them what to do.
...
This have nothing to do with drivers and bricked chips. FT232H never got bricked BTW. As your ICs are from reputable source and you got "Unknown USB peripheral" message, IMO there is 99% chance that your design have an error in it or your USB cable really crappy or faulty USB ports.
 

Offline cfauvel

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1690 on: January 21, 2016, 05:52:19 am »
Hello everybody,

I re-checked the design today and found the issue. I had two USB connectors and a switch to connect one of them to the FTDI.
I finally suspected this chip to be the culprit and was right. I shunted it and the enumeration was successful on all my machines !

Best regards,
 

Offline eneuro

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1691 on: January 30, 2016, 04:25:02 am »
I have no problem with  :bullshit: FTDI, too - I use CP21xx instead in my projects  :popcorn:

Fake FTDI? No, THANKS !!!
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Offline Eheran

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1692 on: March 10, 2016, 10:54:30 pm »
I have a Update "pending" for FTDI in my Windows update (Win 8.1) here, its from 03. Feb. 2016.
Any issues there?
 

Offline serggio

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1693 on: May 26, 2016, 12:19:34 am »
Just my two cents...
A lot of noise from nothing.
If you bought fake chip you should solve your problems with seller first of all, not with FTDI. FTDI just try to protect their intellectual property and their production. How do you think, if they will continue developing drivers, doing RnD, provide support and etc, and some smart guys will make counterfeit chips and nothing more with hope that their bullshit should work with FTDI drivers who will be happy at the end? End users who spent only 50 cents instead $ 4,50? Of course and those "smart guys", but only not FTDI.
Most people understand prices well but nevertheless continue buying cheap devices and component from aliexpress, alibaba and other world stock of fucking Chinese counterfeit.
If you doing something based on FTDI ICs you should be responsible for your goods in front of your buyers. You should solve problem with your supplier if he has delivered to you counterfeit chips.
Probably most people should understand that they need boycott not FTDI, they need boycott fake components suppliers IMHO.  :-//
 

Offline Eheran

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1694 on: May 26, 2016, 12:30:10 am »
Wasnt that exactly the huge problem? Nobody could get a hold of legit chips. Even the big sellers didnt know if the Chips were original or not.
Quote
End users who spent only 50 cents instead $ 4,50?
This doesnt apply as the end user has one price and no way of checking the authenticity.

BTW: I dont think you read any portion of this thread befor posting. Otherwise this would have been clear. I think Dave even said those things in his Video.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1695 on: May 26, 2016, 12:43:10 am »
I read a lot pages in this thread but not all, of course.
Let me ask... When end user buying something related with this thread, what he doing? He going to FTDI web site, download and install driver from them. After that, well know, authenticity checking process starting))
What you will do, contact seller, will go to forum to drop some portion of negative to FTDI side, or what?
BTW: I told about price for situation when people understand their risk when pay for very cheap similar product, and try to use it in their devices.
Before some time FTDI did not nothing and fake components was under working condition. After they decided to change this situation. But this is not FTDI problem, supplier should be responsible in front of end user! That I try to say you   


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« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 01:30:15 am by serggio »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1696 on: May 26, 2016, 04:37:02 am »
Read the entire thread again. The biggest problem is that you can even buy fake FT232 chips from Farnell (this happened for real a couple of weeks months ago!). Ofcourse everybody wants to use real FTDI chips but with clones so widespread and FTDI's production volumes so low you just can't be 100% sure you'll never get clones. However if FTDI is killing your product behind your back even though you have zero blame (bought from a reputable source, paid the regular price, etc) then you are the victim of FTDI being unable to deal with the cloners properly.

Bottom line: As a designer of electronic circuits/products I really don't want to deal with what is FTDI's problem so I don't use FTDI chips in my designs. That is how the real world works.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 04:40:41 am by nctnico »
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Offline wraper

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1697 on: May 26, 2016, 05:07:39 am »
The biggest problem is that you can even buy fake FT232 chips from Farnell (this happened for real a couple of weeks months ago!). Ofcourse everybody wants to use real FTDI chips but with clones so widespread and FTDI's production volumes so low you just can't be 100% sure you'll never get clones.
Actually I'm not convinced about that at all. OP was completely reluctant to verify if they are actually counterfeits or he has some driver problem or some other issue. He didn't even try to install new driver, with which fake chips per se couldn't cause the issue he had.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1698 on: May 26, 2016, 05:12:29 am »
Read the entire thread again. The biggest problem is that you can even buy fake FT232 chips from Farnell (this happened for real a couple of weeks months ago!).
Dear nctnico. I don't know what is Farnell and believe me, I even don't want to know  ;)
If you not understand how contribution business work, let me explain to you.
Manufacturer work only with distributors network. Each distributor have some sort of agreements with manufacturer. They buy original product that this manufacturer produced. After that distributor offer this products to dealers network.  In distributors and dealers network special procurement department exist within each company. Their managers monitoring offers, make a deal, and believe me, if some greedy manager in greedy companies decided bought fake goods (they well know what he buying and where) from infringement manufacture for 1/5 at normal price and sell it at full price like original goods, that FTDI should not be responsible for that!

Quote
However if FTDI is killing your product behind your back even though you have zero blame (bought from a reputable source, paid the regular price, etc) then you are the victim of FTDI being unable to deal with the cloners properly.
What property you talking about? You bought (you has been defrauded by seller) fake and want to use it like original one. You try to apply to it original software and be foiled, and what? Go to your supplier and tell him: take you bullshit back, give me my money, I will order original one from fro honest seller! That all that you need to do.

Quote
Bottom line: As a designer of electronic circuits/products I really don't want to deal with what is FTDI's problem so I don't use FTDI chips in my designs. That is how the real world works.
:-DD Up to you! FTDI try to do their business, they not give you fake chips and responsible for that some f@cking asshole stolen their design, microcode, sold his fake to next greedy asshole that sold it to you like original one. That is how the real world works.  ;)

Now, I would like to ask you, if somebody will stolen your design, print your name on their fake bullshit, will transfer responsibility to your name in front of end users, what you will do, hmm??
Send them message, Oh sorry, somebody f@ck me, but I will spent another 1000 hours to new drivers for support your fake goods?
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1699 on: May 26, 2016, 05:16:26 am »
Read the entire thread again. The biggest problem is that you can even buy fake FT232 chips from Farnell (this happened for real a couple of weeks months ago!).
Dear nctnico. I don't know what is Farnell and believe me, I even don't want to know  ;)

You don't know of and don't want to know of one of the largest electronics equipment and component distributors in the western world?

Your arrogance and willful ignorance is terrifying.
 


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