Author Topic: Fume extractor suggestions  (Read 3505 times)

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Offline 3rj4Topic starter

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Fume extractor suggestions
« on: December 19, 2019, 07:45:09 am »
I'm a newbie to the electronics space who's looking to buy equipment for their first lab. What do you guys suggest for dealing with soldering fumes in a mostly closed room (one open door and one window that might or might not be open)? I was looking at this: https://www.oritech.com.au/hakko-fa400-smoke-absorber-esd-safe.html , but I'm open to other suggestions if there's better equipment out there for a similar price. Since this is a matter of health, I'm willing to spend a bit more for something that is highly effective and will last a long time.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 07:55:11 am by 3rj4 »
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2019, 07:21:32 pm »
If you spend eight hours a day five days a week soldering then this might become an issue, but soldering at your bench once in a while will not be a problem. If I'm spending more than a couple of hours soldering I have a 12V fan running at 7V at the side of the bench and this tiny amount of airflow is enough to disperse the smoke,
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2019, 11:43:38 pm »
Spending $180 on that hakko is a waste of money IMO. Its also irritatingly loud.
See this thread for a better option: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/the-best-diy-fume-extractor-for-under-$50/

If you spend eight hours a day five days a week soldering then this might become an issue, but soldering at your bench once in a while will not be a problem. If I'm spending more than a couple of hours soldering I have a 12V fan running at 7V at the side of the bench and this tiny amount of airflow is enough to disperse the smoke,

Dispersing the smoke helps, but its still going to be floating around in the air waiting for you to breath in. You should either filter it or exhaust it outside, if you care about your lungs and health.
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Offline 3rj4Topic starter

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 12:25:12 am »
Spending $180 on that hakko is a waste of money IMO. Its also irritatingly loud.
See this thread for a better option: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/the-best-diy-fume-extractor-for-under-$50/

If you spend eight hours a day five days a week soldering then this might become an issue, but soldering at your bench once in a while will not be a problem. If I'm spending more than a couple of hours soldering I have a 12V fan running at 7V at the side of the bench and this tiny amount of airflow is enough to disperse the smoke,

Dispersing the smoke helps, but its still going to be floating around in the air waiting for you to breath in. You should either filter it or exhaust it outside, if you care about your lungs and health.

I'm not sure how the author built that system for under $50. The "Core 300 True HEPA Air Purifier" is 100 USD on its own -- and that's before accounting for shipping to Australia. It seems like the Hakko would be cheaper?
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 12:41:22 am »
I'm not sure how the author built that system for under $50. The "Core 300 True HEPA Air Purifier" is 100 USD on its own -- and that's before accounting for shipping to Australia. It seems like the Hakko would be cheaper?

Please read it again.

For the hakko you are paying $170 for a $20 fan, $5 filter, and a plastic frame.
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Offline 3rj4Topic starter

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 12:55:30 am »
I'm not sure how the author built that system for under $50. The "Core 300 True HEPA Air Purifier" is 100 USD on its own -- and that's before accounting for shipping to Australia. It seems like the Hakko would be cheaper?

Please read it again.

For the hakko you are paying $170 for a $20 fan, $5 filter, and a plastic frame.

You're right, my mistake. I can get the replacement filters for $25 from here https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-HEPA-and-Activated-Carbon-Levoit-Air-Purifier-LV-H132-Replacement-Filter/123677002935?hash=item1ccbb94cb7:g:RagAAOSw2xFc4mOK

What is meant by "120mm+ fan with good static pressure"? How do I determine if a fan has "good static pressure"?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 12:58:11 am by 3rj4 »
 

Offline jadew

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2019, 01:02:12 am »
Here's a simpler and better solution: PVC tubing x 2 + PVC tubing fan. That's about $20 total. Hang one side on the bench, the other one on under a cracked window or something.

Might get chilly during the winter, but if you can solve that, you'll have a much better solution, fume wise, than any of the extractors that release the fumes back into the room.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2019, 01:12:48 am »
You're right, my mistake. I can get the replacement filters for $25 from here https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-HEPA-and-Activated-Carbon-Levoit-Air-Purifier-LV-H132-Replacement-Filter/123677002935?hash=item1ccbb94cb7:g:RagAAOSw2xFc4mOK

What is meant by "120mm+ fan with good static pressure"? How do I determine if a fan has "good static pressure"?

In the datasheet or specifications of the fan they will give a "static pressure" rating. Good would be 0.30" to 0.5" H2O. They may also use other units like 'Pa' which can be converted.

If specific parts are not available, you may look to see what you have locally (other brands of HEPA filters, etc.). Or you may have access to a scrap fan from something. Most cheap PC case fans will not be very good for these applications.

Its really up to you what level of effort to put in. If you are just starting out, maybe a 120mm PC fan and carbon filter and opening the window will be acceptable until you can build something better. But it sounds like you have some money available.

Here's a simpler and better solution: PVC tubing x 2 + PVC tubing fan. That's about $20 total. Hang one side on the bench, the other one on under a cracked window or something.

Might get chilly during the winter, but if you can solve that, you'll have a much better solution, fume wise, than any of the extractors that release the fumes back into the room.

Yes that is an option as well, assuming you board off a portion of the window or have negative pressure to stop it blowing back in.
IMO dryer vent is better than PVC tubing, less hassle.

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Inline-Booster-Noise-Grounded/dp/B01C82SYZ0/
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 01:18:04 am by thm_w »
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Offline 3rj4Topic starter

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2019, 02:41:43 am »
You're right, my mistake. I can get the replacement filters for $25 from here https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/True-HEPA-and-Activated-Carbon-Levoit-Air-Purifier-LV-H132-Replacement-Filter/123677002935?hash=item1ccbb94cb7:g:RagAAOSw2xFc4mOK

What is meant by "120mm+ fan with good static pressure"? How do I determine if a fan has "good static pressure"?

In the datasheet or specifications of the fan they will give a "static pressure" rating. Good would be 0.30" to 0.5" H2O. They may also use other units like 'Pa' which can be converted.

If specific parts are not available, you may look to see what you have locally (other brands of HEPA filters, etc.). Or you may have access to a scrap fan from something. Most cheap PC case fans will not be very good for these applications.

Its really up to you what level of effort to put in. If you are just starting out, maybe a 120mm PC fan and carbon filter and opening the window will be acceptable until you can build something better. But it sounds like you have some money available.

Here's a simpler and better solution: PVC tubing x 2 + PVC tubing fan. That's about $20 total. Hang one side on the bench, the other one on under a cracked window or something.

Might get chilly during the winter, but if you can solve that, you'll have a much better solution, fume wise, than any of the extractors that release the fumes back into the room.

Yes that is an option as well, assuming you board off a portion of the window or have negative pressure to stop it blowing back in.
IMO dryer vent is better than PVC tubing, less hassle.

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Inline-Booster-Noise-Grounded/dp/B01C82SYZ0/

I don't have access to any scrap fans.

Most of the 120mm fans that I could find are PC fans (I think this https://www.amazon.com.au/ARCTIC-F12-120-Standard-Configuration-Possible/dp/B002KTVFTE/ref=asc_df_B002KTVFTE/?tag=googleshopdsk-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=341773396021&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10778205596486961143&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9070544&hvtargid=pla-435533531968&psc=1 is the fan used in the image in the thread). I did find this website https://www.pureventilation.com.au/exhaust-fans/ , which sells exhaust fans, but I'm not sure which one is suitable for this project (none of them list a "static pressure" in the technical specifications either), and even then it specifies that they need need to be installed by an electrician.

What do you suggest I do?

« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 07:27:52 am by 3rj4 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 10:15:11 pm »
The only spec that fan gives is is 53CFM and 1,300 rpm. Its designed to be a low noise PC fan, so its not going to push a ton of air. But it might be OK to start off with, especially if you just use a vent and no filter.
I'm sure AUS has some PC stores with proper branded products which give specifications.

Noctua has specs, but most of their stuff is lower noise as well: https://noctua.at/en/nf-f12-industrialppc-3000-pwm/specification 0.3"

Those duct fans do provide a pressure graph: https://www.pureventilation.com.au/product/fanco/vko-axial-in-line-fan-125mm/
This one for example 60 Pa = 6.116mm = 0.24" H2O.
But if you don't want to deal with 120V and AC wiring, then you wouldn't go for that. Unless you can find one with a cord attached. Even the site you originally linked had a decent AC fan: https://www.oritech.com.au/120mm-fan-240-volt.html (also AC).
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Offline 3rj4Topic starter

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2019, 12:37:22 am »
The only spec that fan gives is is 53CFM and 1,300 rpm. Its designed to be a low noise PC fan, so its not going to push a ton of air. But it might be OK to start off with, especially if you just use a vent and no filter.
I'm sure AUS has some PC stores with proper branded products which give specifications.

Noctua has specs, but most of their stuff is lower noise as well: https://noctua.at/en/nf-f12-industrialppc-3000-pwm/specification 0.3"

Those duct fans do provide a pressure graph: https://www.pureventilation.com.au/product/fanco/vko-axial-in-line-fan-125mm/
This one for example 60 Pa = 6.116mm = 0.24" H2O.
But if you don't want to deal with 120V and AC wiring, then you wouldn't go for that. Unless you can find one with a cord attached. Even the site you originally linked had a decent AC fan: https://www.oritech.com.au/120mm-fan-240-volt.html (also AC).

Good news: According to the website, the inline exhaust fans have the option of having a lead and plug installed.

This 125mm fan https://www.pureventilation.com.au/product/manufacturers/tt-mixflow-line-fan-125mm-w-lead-plug/ has a static pressure of ~0.44-0.56 H2O

Alternatively, we have the 100mm version of the above fan https://www.pureventilation.com.au/product/manufacturers/tt-mixflow-line-fan-100mm-w-lead-plug/ , which has a static pressure of ~0.48-0.54

What do you think of the 125mm fan?

The grand total cost will probably be around as much as the Hakko, but the fans look like they're going to be far, far superior to what I would have been getting.  ;D


« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:38:55 am by 3rj4 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2019, 01:08:08 am »
Yeah those look decent. Noise of 46dB to the environment and you might get away with it on the "low" mode which would be quieter. The FA400 is 51dB.
I think 100mm is a reasonable size for the ducting, 125mm is quite big, not sure if the 125 can be used with 100mm duct or they need an adapter. Up to you.

Also not sure if it comes with clamps, but they should be a few dollars at most.
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Offline 3rj4Topic starter

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2019, 01:18:48 am »
Yeah those look decent. Noise of 46dB to the environment and you might get away with it on the "low" mode which would be quieter. The FA400 is 51dB.
I think 100mm is a reasonable size for the ducting, 125mm is quite big, not sure if the 125 can be used with 100mm duct or they need an adapter. Up to you.

Also not sure if it comes with clamps, but they should be a few dollars at most.

So I should buy the 100mm one? Is that a better size for the filter than the 125mm one? The author of that thread specified a 120mm+ fan.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 01:26:28 am by 3rj4 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2019, 01:29:14 am »
You'll have to decide whats easiest for you to rig up.
100mm is the right size for 100mm duct, so that slips right on. On the other end you'll need to adapt whatever filter you decide to use to the outlet, which is 96mm or 123mm dia it looks like.
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Offline sn4k3

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Re: Fume extractor suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2019, 11:44:45 pm »
If you want go DIY solution i have published a capable device, better than everything you can find for cheap with a crap fan and a paper filter. Used noctuas before, they work with small filters but not with bulky ones and low performance on static, so i upgrade everything. Also using the same for 3d printing fume extractor. That fan i use have same specs of ERSA EA1.
Filter wise i got about 50 to 70 pm2.5 at output burning a bath of flux and solder. Without filter my meter goes more than 1500 pm2.5. Bad part is i can't compare with a good comercial fume extractor because i don't have any.
As that is 3D printed is limited to bed size, but with my CNC is very easy to do a device that use the ERSA EA filters (0CA10-1001) and cut 1000€ into 300€ (Wood box)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3807542

But of course if you can exhaust out, a fan like i use and some tubes are ok. Otherwise you need proper filtering.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 12:02:58 am by sn4k3 »
 


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