Fume Extractor advice

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lfldp:

--- Quote from: tinfever on May 26, 2023, 07:47:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: lfldp on January 15, 2023, 11:02:11 pm ---hi
everything is ok with this filter except gas stage filter you will never adsorb most harmfull soldering flux fumes by standalone activated carbon filter for this need to mix activated alumina impregnated by kmn04 with activated carbon then you get reall chemicall filter comparable to high-end soldering fume extractors , it is enough to mix 5kg of activated alumina with 1,2kg can filters activated carbon (lite version) to get excellent result for small air-flow 200m3/h - 300m3/h , activated alumina with kmn04 isnt cheap but at last whole cost for 5kg activated alumina + 1,2kg can-lite carbon + M5 prefilter + F8 prefilter + hepa h13 filter will cost you just half price of bofa or weller replacement filters and you propably get more better result with it , ive designed many soldering fume extractors in past and i getting stucked with gas stage filters still having a hope i create very big carbon filter (over 15kg of coconut activated carbon loadded to 4 cartridges and... ive never gets even 1/2 of gas adsorbtion result of formaldehyde and rest of flux stuff , activated carbon filter alone is complete waiste of money , activated alumina with kmn04 is also used in 3d printer fume extractors

--- End quote ---

That's very interesting. You mention never reaching 1/2 gas adsorption using activated carbon. Is that assuming a single pass through the filter? With enough passes, such as for a whole room air filter where the air would recirculate through the filter, would the adsorption increase significantly enough?

I'd also be interested to know more about the makeup of soldering smoke. I assume we have the particulate matter and various gasses. The particulate matter I think would be taken care of by a HEPA filter, leaving just the gasses like formaldehyde it sounds like?

--- End quote ---
today is very bad day i did some experiments again with gas filtering by using camfil activated alumina 8% and even if i loadded around of 10kg of activated alumina i never reaching same filtration result by comparing to 1,5kg activated carbon (whatever is this) cartridge - where is the pit-hole ?! this must be very effective and specialised activated carbon or chemical media and i am sure now similiar or even more effective media is used in bofa/weller gas cartridges the one in bofa/weller is for sure impregnated with kmn04 but its efficiency must be even 50 times higher than activated alumina 8% from camfil :( i think this camfil campure8 can be effective to use only in 3d printer fume extractors DIY :( i waiste alot of money for these experiments in last years and yes - with activated carbon you will never reach even 10% of formaldehyde gas removal even with alumina 8% you will need it alot much more than 10kg loaded to the filter :( - with enough passes before it will pass few times over the filter you will inhale yourself 90% of this gas

lfldp:

--- Quote from: thm_w on May 26, 2023, 10:38:19 pm ---I would still choose whatever you think is the better product, 10% carbon on a ~4kg filter is 400g which is less than $20 worth of material.

The weller has a remote switch which is nice, although slightly lower claimed flow rate. Noise levels hard to tell as they don't give full spec, just "<50dB". Hakko filters seem to be cheaper.

I was wrong about the Hakko as you can see a tiny bit of carbon foam on the bottom of this one: https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/A1586/Fume-Extraction/
Again, this is like $2 worth of material (breakdown), it won't be magic.

--- End quote ---
the kg no really matter the matter is media filtration material it can have just 1,5kg of this media and can be 100 times more effective than 50kg of activated carbon against most irritant fumes generated while soldering - read my other posts

lfldp:

--- Quote from: thm_w on May 31, 2023, 10:43:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: beanflying on May 30, 2023, 01:32:14 am ---You need to understand what 'HEPA' is and is not. It is a term without specification when it comes to anything out of China for a start so because it has a badge on it like the "China Tick" doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean there isn't country specifications but apart from any major brand of filter you are guessing.

Activated Carbon on the other hand is much better at filtering out organics, solvents, gases/smoke etc than HEPA will ever be. Non woven (NOT FOAM) Carbon like I have used (5mm uncompressed) is typically down to 2-3 microns (generally they use '5' as a number but is a tortured path for the air) while proper Hepa gets you sub 1 but will load up quickly on the surface with Rosin in particular.

Best solution would be a layered approach so Carbon to take out the nasties and a Hepa sub micron layer in behind it. Easy to do and that housing has room for a second simple layer so Laser cutting it and or the Non woven is easy to play I guess.

--- End quote ---

I'm referring to certified HEPA filters (H13, H14), ones that have to pass actual standards for air filtration quality: https://www.air-quality-eng.com/air-cleaners/hepa-filters/
The 5mm woven activated carbon has no filtering performance or spec that it has to meet at all. Its not magically going to be better at filtering smoke, while still having next to no restriction to a low static pressure PC fan. The better a filter is, generally, the more restriction it creates.

Better off using granular/pelletized (as recommended above), if you want effective solvent filtration:
https://www.teqoya.com/activated-carbon-filter-a-few-basic-facts-to-sort-out-the-truth/
https://www.consumeranalysis.com/guides/air-purifiers/carbon-air-filter/

You can use a hydroponic grow filter for $40 if VOC/odor is a concern, not sure of the exact carbon weight but its probably a decent value: https://www.vivosun.com/vivosun-4-inch-air-carbon-filter-odor-control-p68320123310966090-v58820960379611906

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you will never achieve same gas filtration results on carbons like that - the commerciall competitors uses speciallised impregnated carbons or activated alumina for chemisorbtion - the chemiosrbent you need to filter and remove whorst harmfull and smallest gas particles generated trought soldering and via 3d printing - any of these carbons from yours link would never adsorb all of this particles even if you load 50kg tape with this carbon for small gas particles (whorst one) you need chemical media filter not standard carbon filter instead - even if you load 200kg of carbon maybe it will works but you will contaminate it more faster than 1,5kg weller/bofa chemical media filter and you pay 30 - 50 times higher price for this carbon which you loaded to the filters than paying for 1,5kg bofa/weller media instead - now you understand where is main problem ? :)

lfldp:

--- Quote from: beanflying on June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 am ---Except we are NOT trying to filter dust out here. An 'absolute' micron rating means squat to anything gaseous but it does however matter to 'dust and airborne particles'.

VOC's on the other hand like we get from Soldering or in heavier use cases like chemical production or use environments (Labs, Spray painting etc) then Activated Carbon is what is used and not any 'Hepa' anything as a stand alone solution.

Random Googling but it lays it out without a commercial bias fairly well https://molekule.com/blogs/all/best-air-purifier-for-volatile-organic-compounds-vocs#Can-HEPA-filters-remove-VOCs

Low static pressure fans are fine and even desirable here as more time for the Carbon to do the absorption thing, it only has to get the airflow thing done not suck the room into a wormhole.

--- End quote ---
read my other posts from this forum and you should understand all ill repeat there something in short - activated carbon cant catch smalles gas particles itself because its pores not match to angstrom diametres so if you wanna catch gas from soldering fumes small workplace you will need maybe 200kg ammount of activated carbon to catch all these fumes , now what is implemented in high end fume extractors is called the chemicall media they use activated alumina balls impregnated with kmn04 chemicall agent mixed with usuall activated carbon or they use speciallised activated carbon impregnated with kmn04 now about how it works - the smallest gas particles from soldering fumes or 3d printering hitting kmn04 oxidizer and this kmn04 potassium-permagnate by its chemicall properties convert all small particles to largest one after they going larger they sit on activated carbon and being easily absorbed ! thats why this commerciall filters are very small and can absorb all of chemicall fumes without loading 200kg of activated carbon this technique is used in high-end commerciall soldering and house fume extractors also 3d printer filters and what is more whorse they are more effective than 10kg of activated alumina mixed with activated carbon for example campure 8% from camfil because i tryin this i buyed camfil media and i never getting better result than even chinese fume extractors does - in china soldering fume extractors they dont use kmn04 they use some kind of industrial coconut activated carbon instead with very high activity

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