EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: tony359 on November 15, 2024, 09:19:45 am
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Hi all,
Last year I purchased a genuine JBC station and tips. I didn't want to compromise on quality.
After a year, my main solder tip needs replacement already. I've used it about 3 hours a week. I never used stupid temperatures and I've looked after it properly. Because I am mostly removing SMD capacitors, I also use a HAKKO tip simultaneously. That HAKKO tip was purchased ages ago and it's still doing great.
The JBC tip has now developed some spots where the solder does not stick anymore. Unfortunately one of those spots has developed at the very "tip of the tip" - making the tip itself pretty useless as I can feel that solder is struggling to melt.
I emailed JBC's distributor here in the UK - where I purchased the tip - and I was told that JBC would not look into that as the tip has been used a lot.
Is this what I should expect from a C245 tip used for 12 months?? JBC ones are expensive. Maybe I should consider knock-offs? Or are they all wearing out so quickly? I have about 15 HAKKO tips I've purchased over the past 10 years and NEVER had to replace anything.
EDIT: To be fair, I now remember that I initially used that tip on the Aixun T3A which tends to massively overshoot when ground is in the way. I remember seeing the T3A showing 450C+ temps at times (that's when I looked into the issue and decided to buy a genuine JBC station). It would only happen sporadically and for brief moments but I suppose it cannot be good for the coating.
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Tip doesn't really look that bad. Hard to tell for sure from the photos but I don't see any actual pitting, unless what you are pointing to is a pit in the end?
Try using tip re-tinner or some very fine grit sandpaper (1000), and see if that will let the solder wet the surface again or not.
And yes, try some clone tips, since they are not expensive $3-9 each or so, just as a comparison.
What temperature do you normally run at?
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Not easy to tell from the photo, but the tip should easily last for a decade or more with that level of use. I use them at 330 deg C, but sometimes at 350 deg C.
In a decade, I've never had to replace any JBC tip (apart from a crazy-tiny 0.x mm one (it was either 0.2 mm or 0.3 mm) which was my fault, I slammed the tip end accidentally into a desk while it was hot.
I have a faulty JBC station too, which I believe might have been caused by accidentally inserting a clone tip into the handle. I'm not sure though. I have thrown out the few clone tips I have, to not make that mistake again (the clone tips came with some USB soldering irons).
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I've never been impressed with JBC C245 tip lifetime. I tend to buy 2 or 3 at at time and keep them in stock.
Fortunately I'm being paid to solder things, so even though they're £25 each it's just a cost of doing business.
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You might try the C245E Cartridge Range with Extended Life Tips.
https://www.jbctools.com/c245e-cartridge-range-extended-life-tips-product-1867-design-iron.html (https://www.jbctools.com/c245e-cartridge-range-extended-life-tips-product-1867-design-iron.html)
C245E Cartridge Range have a reinforced protection on the tip that provides a longer life with a small reduction of thermal efficiency.
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Opinions are quite discordant, in your opinion what is the average life of a JBC tip ? I understand that it is difficult to make an estimate, assuming you solder about 30 minutes a day, do you confirm that the tip can last up to ten years ?
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Yes I've noticed that there are many opinions about JBC tips :)
I usually keep 365C on my station but once again I used the T3A a couple of months and that had the bad habit to overshoot to 500C at times.
Yes, those black spots are pits where solder doesn't stick anymore. To re-tin I tried the following:
I try to cover the tip with leaded solder, clean with brass wool, repeat 3-5 times. Those black spots don't take solder anymore. I now always feel that solder does not melt when I'm touching it with the tip.
10 years is probably what I'd expect from a quality tip.
Edit: picture with microscope attached. Definitely pitted. JBC refused any warranty claiming the tip is "heavily used".
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OK thats a really good photo, clearly the plating was eaten through, your only option with that tip would be to sand it down and electroplate it which is not so difficult but not worth most peoples time.
So main option here is the long life tips mentioned above or clone tips.
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My concern about the life and cost of the tips is related to the choice of the station I should buy, if I can decide, ERSA i-CON Nano MK2 vs JBC BT-2BQA
From the photo you posted you can see a real chasm, since you asked for the warranty to JBC I think you bought the tip recently, now the new long-lasting tips claim that they last 5 times longer, I don't know if anyone has already tried them.
Some say that the average life of a JBC tip is about 1 year, if it's true it's difficult to say since you have to understand if the tip is used correctly following all the necessary precautions, the problem is the cost obviously, assuming that a user has to buy three tips every year the cost becomes high, I know it's not recommended but I've seen Aixun tips used on JBC stations, obviously the performance is not the same as the original tips.
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I tried the 'extended life' tips, but didn't find much if any difference.
If you're that concerned about tip life, just buy something that's not JBC. There's plenty of other options out there.
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I find it difficult to establish the average life I get out of JBC tips. My soldering station is switched on most days and sometimes used for hours on end. Temp usually set to 380C, or anywhere between 320C and 400C. I do change a lot between finer tips like C245-006(906) and C245-044(944) and much heavier tips like the C245-785. I buy maybe 1-2 tips a year, largely to have them available when I run into one that is no longer soldering well. And every once in a while I'll buy a special tip for a special purpose. In the 15 years I owned JBC tools I ditched maybe five tips that became really unusable, so I have quite the collection of older, not perfect but still usable, tips. I am a bit of a hoarder :)
They might be bloody expensive but I find that JBC soldering tools perform good. Tips are a consumable and, as @AndyC_772 said, just another business expense. I spend more on the lead-free solder I use them for.
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I agree with you, it is difficult to estimate the life of a tip, there are too many variables, however you use the tips very intensively, you told me that you still have old tips of 15 years, so they have resisted a lot, my hobby use is much lighter, in my case I do not need special tips, I think two tips are enough, a thin one for the Arduino components and a thicker tip to solder the rheophores and some cables.
Regarding the costs I checked all the various shops, a basic JBC tip costs me about €45, €30 for the tip and €15 for shipping, in my case I do not think I need to buy one or two tips every year, the soldering I do is not a source of income, so the expenses are not repaid, I think it is like this for the majority of hobbyists.
The cartridge tips Metcal, Thermaltronics and Pace are much more resistant, I wonder why JBC does not use the same materials for their tips and lowers the prices a little.
@AndyC_772, I evaluated all the stations, with a budget of €300 I don't see much choice, if you have any advice let me know.
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I have used this tip more than my Hakko ones - I use it probably 3-4 hours a week. But I've had the Hakko for 8 years and they still look brand new. One tip in particular has been used in tandem with the JBC since I got the JBC: the JBC tip is dead, the Hakko looks brand new.
So I'm hoping that the Aixun "fried" the JBC tip over those two months I used it. Otherwise JBC tips are a waste of money... I'd not expect 10 years lifetime but maybe 3-5 yes.
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You soldering iron tip looks of significantly different color shade up to a certain point on the shaft (see inset photo) compared to mine. Perhaps that was caused by the Aixun over-heating it, as you mention.
The photo shows a couple of tips I use.. I use the top one more frequently (it is a spoon tip, but I also tend to use it for purposes where a large bevel tip would normally be used, I'm lazy at swapping it out; I've had that tip for maybe eight years. The lower tip is newer (maybe a year old).
Also, FWIW, I always use steel wool to clean them (I've not used a wet sponge on any of them); I doubt a sponge would cause damage, but just mentioning it for informational purposes.
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I'd imagine once the tip reaches 500C ONCE, it's probably not good for it!
I think I read around that wool is better than a sponge. Interesting. I tend to use the sponge. Someone (you?) also recommended the steel wool. I have it but I never used it, I use the brass one. I thought the steel would be too aggressive?
Thanks for that though, I should get the replacement tomorrow. I can try with no sponge and see what happens.
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Same here, I also bought both kinds of wool (plus a sponge) back when I first started with JBC tools. I too was worried that the steel wool would cause damage, but since tips were cheaper back then, I decided to give it a go, and 10 years later, I'm still using just the steel wool, so I don't actually know what difference there is with the brass wool since I've never used that. For production volumes the tip life difference may be noticeable between brass and steel I guess.
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Yeah don't use a wet sponge.
Tips are generally iron plated, so theoretically steel wool is a bit harder than iron and could scrape it away.
Probably in reality the forces are so low and the wool is so flexible that it doesn't cause much wear.
I still would only use brass wool as its cheap enough, works well, and proven to be safe.
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What puzzles me is that I ALWAYS used a wet sponge on my Hakko tips. For decades :)
Anyways, new tip arrived today. Let's see how this behaves. Thanks for all the tips, literally :)