Author Topic: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison  (Read 113881 times)

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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 07:12:15 am »
So the clones you have systematically report a to low temperature. I.e. a genuine controller would try to heat them up more than they should.
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Offline saturation

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 02:06:49 pm »
@nukie, awesome job!  :-+ :clap:

Overall again, it shows you do get more with the original Hakko part for the money you pay.  My comments.

As BAW said, the controller would work 'harder' as the lower resistance would draw more power to obtain the same heat.

The resistance is less linear in the clones, so the temperature markings on the analog station, which are just interpolative paint marks, will have a larger error with the clone tips.  The red colored heater is the least error, as it has the same slope as an original heater, just offset by "X".



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Offline nukie

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 02:49:45 pm »
Hold on, im getting confused now, my small brain could not work out the problem. Yes the clones have a different resistance vs temperature profile than the Hakko. But if the station is calibrated at say 350c to work with the clones what difference does the RTD makes?

 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 04:49:34 pm »
Hold on, im getting confused now, my small brain could not work out the problem. Yes the clones have a different resistance vs temperature profile than the Hakko. But if the station is calibrated at say 350c to work with the clones what difference does the RTD makes?

If you have the station specifically calibrated for a clone then dialing in 350C should give you 350C.

But ...

if you use an (original) station/controller, calibrated for an original heater, replace the heater with a clone, and if you then dial in 350C, you might get 400C (green, orange clones) or even more (the other clones). Maybe 450C, but the graph ends at 400C.
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Offline saturation

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2013, 08:36:07 pm »
Yes, I concur with BAW comment.

To clarify here's a photo of the painted scale on the 936, the error would apply to any other analog station with a painted scale such as the FX888. 



Since the scale on the original 936 is based on the Hakko heater, the curve of replacement heaters should match it.  The more it deviates from it, the more error there is.  If you calibrate just one point on the scale using a clone heater, the scale of temperature would not correspond to the printed temp the farther you are from the calibrated point; thus the benefit of 'dial a temp' is lost.   For example, if the Hakko heater read 101 ohms at 250C, and we use the purple clone heater in the original 936 station, the temp maybe over 300C because the original Hakko station outputs power to drive 101 ohms.

Even had it been a clone station, it order to just paint a temp scale, it would expect a certain curve from the heating element.  So if an owner bought just any compatible heater, the more the replacement heater deviated from the original heater's curve, the more error the scale could be.

The problem lies in that the simple Hakko design does not read out true temp in real time.  If it did, then what you dial is what you get regardless of the curve of the replacement heater or RTD. 

Note, the 936 scale is calibrated to read the soldering tip temperature, not the tip of the heater, but for the sake of this discussion we are ignoring it.

Now is the scale important?  Yes, if you are concerned with the benefits of knowing the tip temp when soldering: the value of temp regulation and specific temps in the process of hand soldering quality,  reducing thermal stress on soldered components and staying << 350C to maximize tip and heater life.

You could still solder the way it was done before temp regulation became the norm, in which case you could just calibrate the temp at 350C then just wing it by 'feel' below or above it, since the true temps on other parts of the scale would be more uncertain.

Alternatively, a user could calibrate the whole scale by checking tip temps against all the major divisions and manually re-mark the scale to correct deviations.






Hold on, im getting confused now, my small brain could not work out the problem. Yes the clones have a different resistance vs temperature profile than the Hakko. But if the station is calibrated at say 350c to work with the clones what difference does the RTD makes?


« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 06:45:00 pm by saturation »
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Offline nukie

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 09:59:06 pm »
I understand that the clones will not be matching the scales on the panel but why would it draw more power?
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2013, 07:34:19 am »
I think measuring a few more genuine elements (if you have any) would be required to truly characterise them, otherwise it could be said you just happened to have one which had higher resistance than the clones.

Even had it been a clone station, it order to just paint a temp scale, it would expect a certain curve from the heating element.  So if an owner bought just any compatible heater, the more the replacement heater deviated from the original heater's curve, the more error the scale could be.

The problem lies in that the simple Hakko design does not read out true temp in real time.  If it did, then what you dial is what you get regardless of the curve of the replacement heater or RTD.
You mean using a thermocouple? That's what some of the clones do. Perhaps that's why they use one instead, because the temperature vs voltage is more standard?
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2013, 06:30:47 pm »
Sorry if it was vague so my bad, nukie, forget the "output power", I'll change the term.  I presume that if the blue Hakko heater sensor shows 101 ohms at 250C, then the Hakko station "thinks" 101 ohms is 250C.  So I am presuming that if you put an orange clone heater in a real Hakko, the Hakko station will continue to output power drive the heater of the clone so the sensor reads also 101 ohms, which based on this chart means near 300C.






It logical from the schematic that this will happen but maybe the calibration pot can correct this offset, which I forgot all about! :palm:.




I understand that the clones will not be matching the scales on the panel but why would it draw more power?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 06:44:20 pm by saturation »
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Offline saturation

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2013, 06:59:23 pm »
Yes, it would be good to measure another real Hakko to compare, but nukies procedures are clear enough for another person with a similar station to confirm the Hakko sensor output.

Yes a thermocouple or equivalent sensor, I believe Hakkos use a thermistor, or similar RTD device.  Unfortunately, just having a sensor doesn't mean the tip temperature is correct, if you truly care about it.  Most separated heater-tip assemblies usually place sensors on the base of the tip, and its difficult to get a sensor right at the tip particular the small geometry tips.  So, the difference in temp has to be 'calibrated' to adjust for the difference.  The problem lies when the tip wears, the sensor is still measuring the tip base and not the true tip temp, thus requiring periodic calibration check of the tip temp.

More expensive stations use tips which integrate the sensor, heater and tip as a single package to correct for this error and are typically calibration free tips. 


I think measuring a few more genuine elements (if you have any) would be required to truly characterise them,
You mean using a thermocouple? That's what some of the clones do. Perhaps that's why they use one instead, because the temperature vs voltage is more standard?
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2013, 12:59:44 am »
Nukie, I'm amazed with the vast informations and the efforts you've provided, making my 1st post  isn't worthy compared to yours, thank you Sir  !  :-+

About the clone heaters, did you deliberately bought PTC version instead of the thermocouple ones ?

As my measurement result on the sensor where fake is 1R2 Ohm while genuine is about approx. 50 Ohm, looks like even at the clone market, its divided between two camps aren't they ?


Offline nukie

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2013, 07:28:15 am »
Sorry if it was vague so my bad, nukie, forget the "output power", I'll change the term. 

Actually it was my fault, I didn't pen(keyboard?!) my question properly in the first place. I think we know very well how controller works. Yes I was thinking of the offset that can be tune by the calibration trimpot in the beginning. Anyway the clones shows a rather similar curve except for clone #4. I would like to get my hands on more genuine heaters to repeat the test but I only have two and with that many clone spares lying around I don't think I will spend money on a genuine heater unless I visit Japan or Hongkong again. I love to support local shops and I try my best to do so but inflation has gotten to the point where it is unsensible for my wallet to do so  |O

BravoV -
Thank you for your kind words, I am just as curious as you.  ;D
The Nichrome Wire heater sensor leads is actually polarity sensitive. Try connecting to a dmm, and you will see a voltage across, and heat up the sensor with a butane lighter you will see either increase in voltage or a negative voltage. I think that's how a thermocouple works I am not very well versed with them.

In the beginning I was trying to build a ~3x3" heatplate to help preheat bare circuit boards so my hotair gun don't have to work too hard. I bought the cheaper $1(in 20 pieces bulk) when I was poor and cheap, it didn't work properly with the Hakko station so I bought the RTD ones. Seeing how the RTD were similar to the Hakko, I decided to invest in them as my heatplate would need 4 at one time. 2 takes time to heatup, 4 pieces at 200w just makes it faster and less load means they last longer. Ceramic heaters is a wonderful technology.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:34:46 am by nukie »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2013, 06:05:07 am »
Wow... BravoV, Nukie nice work and interesting reading

Nukie heres my heater on my Yihua 936 $15.74 special. I remember you asked a while back.
No need to pretend it's a Hakko here ;)


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Offline Pantelis

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 07:02:07 pm »
Hello, i have the fake flowing soldering iron and i like it because ti is very light. The ptc resistance is 55 Ohm.
    I am wondering how could i adapt a thermocouple somewhere close to the tip, so that use this controler http://www.ebay.com/itm/Controller-Thermocouple-REX-C100-Dual-Digital-PID-Celsius-Temperature-Control-/390567595022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5aefa48c0e
 

Offline genBTC

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2015, 03:14:27 pm »
I need a massive amount of help. I Have a "Tenma 21-10115 60W soldering station" base. This is a horrible clone, its very unique and dumb. The wand broke, and I bought an original Haako A1321 element wand to replace it. They are incompatible in many ways.

Background info:
The station only has 3 usable wires. Heater +, Heater -, Ground.
(The wand it came with, likewise.) There is no where for temperature sensor to attach. The digital read-out checks resistance (I presume) of the heater element that it came with, and was calibrated to it. I presume this because the wand that died now has infinite resistance (no idea what it was when working), and the base station gives me an error of "5-E" when its hooked up, and refuses to do anything, this is the same error that happens when NO wand at all is attached. I checked as many spec values as I could before powering it on so I wouldnt blow the thing up (Luckily it hasn't yet, but I will if I use it for any more than 15 seconds.).  The base station drives with 24V AC. The replacement A1321 wand has a Heater (red wire) resistance of 3 ohms. The temperature sensor has a resistance of 48 ohms (but i cannot plug this in).
Problems:
When I wire up the Heater to the base, it heats up to the solder melting point within 3-5 seconds!!!! This would amazing if it were sustainable, because the old wand took minutes.  The station has a digital readout and a calibration Offset between -58F and +122F. (the entire unit uses Fahr., not Cels.) The lowest target temp you can set it to is 302F. When the offset calibration is set to its max of +122F (example: set higher offset to "trick" it into thinking the wand is already hotter) the "current real temp" shows up starting out as like 212F, and increases very slowly by +2F every second. This cannot be true. It obviously starts out at 60F and heats up to 350F within 5 seconds.
I let it climb to what the display said was 250F and it was already melting leaded 180C (356F) solder well before that point, and would not have kept going, driving the element until it thought it reached 302F. This is not sustainable, and will kill the element.
What can I do ? I can post pics or something later in the day, or I might have to move this all to a new thread. The controller in the base station sucks so bad compared to a legit or even a good clone, I cant even find specs for it on DangerousPrototypes, because I looked to see how to figure out how to wire in a temperature sensor directly.  If anyone has any insight into how to do this, please help! Desperate at this point to salvage the mismatched combination of dumb base + legit wand.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 03:22:31 pm by genBTC »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2015, 03:23:47 pm »
Hello, i have the fake flowing soldering iron and i like it because ti is very light. The ptc resistance is 55 Ohm.
    I am wondering how could i adapt a thermocouple somewhere close to the tip, so that use this controler http://www.ebay.com/itm/Controller-Thermocouple-REX-C100-Dual-Digital-PID-Celsius-Temperature-Control-/390567595022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5aefa48c0e

1 you dont want this controller, pid loop i 1 second

2 if you want tip with thermocouple as close to the tip as possible buy T12 cartridges, there is even a DIY controller for them on ebay, $20 will get you a tip, handle and controller
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2015, 03:44:07 pm »
The station only has 3 usable wires. Heater +, Heater -, Ground.[/b] (The wand it came with, likewise.) There is no where for temperature sensor to attach. The digital read-out checks resistance (I presume) of the heater element that it came with, and was calibrated to it.

it has thermocouple in series with heating element
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 03:53:50 pm by Rasz »
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Offline genBTC

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2015, 06:53:09 am »
The station only has 3 usable wires. Heater +, Heater -, Ground.[/b] (The wand it came with, likewise.) There is no where for temperature sensor to attach. The digital read-out checks resistance (I presume) of the heater element that it came with, and was calibrated to it.

it has thermocouple in series with heating element

So can I wire in the authentic A1321 48 ohm Thermocouple blue wires in series with the 3 ohm Heater red wires? To match the design of this crap base station?
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2015, 03:51:45 pm »
The station only has 3 usable wires. Heater +, Heater -, Ground.[/b] (The wand it came with, likewise.) There is no where for temperature sensor to attach. The digital read-out checks resistance (I presume) of the heater element that it came with, and was calibrated to it.

it has thermocouple in series with heating element

So can I wire in the authentic A1321 48 ohm Thermocouple blue wires in series with the 3 ohm Heater red wires? To match the design of this crap base station?

depends on type of thermocouple, so no idea
 you can try
or read this thread http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2457&p=50627#p50627, there is a ton of info about types of heaters/sensors in there
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Offline genBTC

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2015, 09:32:36 pm »
The station only has 3 usable wires. Heater +, Heater -, Ground.[/b] (The wand it came with, likewise.) There is no where for temperature sensor to attach. The digital read-out checks resistance (I presume) of the heater element that it came with, and was calibrated to it.
it has thermocouple in series with heating element
So can I wire in the authentic A1321 48 ohm Thermocouple blue wires in series with the 3 ohm Heater red wires? To match the design of this crap base station?
depends on type of thermocouple, so no idea
 you can try
or read this thread http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2457&p=50627#p50627, there is a ton of info about types of heaters/sensors in there
I tried just wiring it in series. Now the iron is too cold. It works, but only at the upper range. Solder melts @ 780F on the readout and max it will go up to is 840. (thats by setting the calibration to the lowest it will go). It also takes plenty of time to heat up, like it did before. I think i'm at the point where I need to mod the controller. Thanks for the tip of wiring series, this way at least proves that it works based on resistance. I wonder if i could wire in another 100 ohm resistor in parallel or something to drop the temp to a lower range.
 

Offline MrAl

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2015, 09:40:56 pm »
Hi,

I had posted some info on the irons and their heaters a while back.
Basically they sell two different kinds, and yes they each have their own sensor and heater resistance.

The most interesting part is the heater resistance, because that's what makes the iron wattage rating what it is.  The lower power ones have a higher resistance, and the higher power ones have a lower resistance.  But also interesting is they are rarely rated for what they are sold as.  Many of the "60 watt" irons come out to only 36 real watts.  The other ones come up to only 50 real watts.
The 907A iron often sold as a 60 watt unit only measures 36 watts, and the iron with the yellow handle measures 50 watts.
That may still be enough for circuit board soldering though, so at least they do work.  I just did not like the deception in the sales.

And yes, one has a thermocouple and one has a resistance sensor, so they are not compatible at all.  The controllers for the thermocouple will rely on a voltage signal, while the controllers for the resistance type sensors will rely on a resistance measurement.

Either way though, these controllers are some of the simplest circuits i've ever seen.  It takes very little to make one, so anyone can make a second soldering iron station with a few parts.  The main part is the transformer, which has to be able to put out the full power of the iron which can be either 36 watts (true power) or 50 watts (true power).  Alternately you could use a DC power supply, but i have not studied the effect of DC current on the longevity of the element vs AC current, and they are usually driven by AC current.  I think they use AC though just to avoid the more expensive parts needed to build a DC power supply of the equivalent power rating.

The controllers can be very simple because they just rely on a single set point temperature.  In other words, if we set it to 350 degrees C, then it always detects the level of voltage that represents that temperature, so there is no problem like linearity and the like.  That only comes in if you want a true linear pot setting, which you dont need either.  For example, if you turn the pot a little and measure the tip temperature and mark the dial, then turn it a little more and measure temp and mark the dial, you'd be just as well off as if you had a four digit temperature display.

Of course the thermocouple type need an amplifier to amplify the small thermo voltage generated, but it isnt too bad at these normally high temperatures used for soldering.
You could look up thermocouple voltages on the web and get an idea what to expect.
Alternately, just heat up the iron with a DC power supply and measure the voltage coming out of the connector for the sensor.  The thermocouple voltage will increase as the temperature increases, and you can measure the tip temperature and correlate.  Probably dont need cold junction compensation either because of the high temperatures involved in normal soldering.  I would think the voltage would be around 0.5 volts at soldering temperatures, but a measurement would show the voltage for sure.

I think it is a very good idea to have at least 2 irons, with different tips, so you dont have to change tips.  That's a good idea that i read elsewhere in this thread.  Having a second iron controller would be nice too, in order to have them both up and running and ready to go.

The last time i made a small oven for testing electronic parts was probably 35 years ago, but all it took was a potentiometer, thermistor, voltage reference, op amp, and drive transistor (along with heater and power supply).  Very simple circuit similar to this kind.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 09:50:56 pm by MrAl »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2015, 10:28:56 pm »
I tried just wiring it in series. Now the iron is too cold. It works, but only at the upper range. Solder melts @ 780F on the readout and max it will go up to is 840. (thats by setting the calibration to the lowest it will go). It also takes plenty of time to heat up, like it did before. I think i'm at the point where I need to mod the controller. Thanks for the tip of wiring series, this way at least proves that it works based on resistance. I wonder if i could wire in another 100 ohm resistor in parallel or something to drop the temp to a lower range.

yep, K type thermocouple versus N (or something) will give you difference like this
and no its not resistance, controller cuts power to the iron and measures thermocouple voltage, then resumes powering it


resistance, and the higher power ones have a lower resistance.  But also interesting is they are rarely rated for what they are sold as.  Many of the "60 watt" irons come out to only 36 real watts.  The other ones come up to only 50 real watts.

MrAl it depends, JBC C245 cartridges are 3.5 ohm, and are rated at 160 W peak, You end up with a soldering iron that sleeps below 180' on the stand, and goes back to set temperature in under a second when you pick it up - faster than your hand moves from the stand to work area.
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Offline Julez

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2015, 03:33:03 pm »
Hi Guys,

I am planning on building a soldering station for a 907 clone solderin iron. I already bought a digital controller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Soldering-Station-Temperature-Controller-for-HAKKO-ESD-907-Iron-Handle-/111629424728

However, I am not totally satisfied with this one. The solder already melts at 50°C set temperature, and at 350°C set temperature, the iron is hotter, but not 300K hotter.
Also in general, I like a simpler interface with a rotary knob like on my Weller WS81.

So I plan on adding a poti in series with the PTC element inside the ceramic heater element.
I am referring to this posting:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/genuine-vs-fake-hakko-936-ceramic-heater-a1321/msg239393/#msg239393

So first of all, I am going to add a 50ohm trimmer to compensate the Y-offset of the clone ceramic.

According to the measurements, the temperature coefficient is around 4,3K/ohm. So I plan to add another 100 ohm poti in series to adjust the temperature. The scale would span 430K here, I would chose 20-450°C here. So, by turning the poti, I would fool the controller into thinking the heater is hotter or cooler than it actually is, and thus adjust the temperature to another range.
Example: To "calibrate" the temperature, I would observe the exact melting point of solder, which is about 190°C. This corresponds perfectly with my Weller, at 190°C setting the solder barely starts to melt here.
So I would adjust the poti to 190°C, and then slowly increase the temperature settings on the controller until the solder melts. Then I would always operate the controller at that temperature, and adjust the iron with the poti. If I wanted the iron to be 290°C, I would decrease the poti resistance by 23ohm, so the controller would increase it's current output until the original resistance is again estabilshed, which would be at 100K higher temperature (100K/4.3K/ohm=23ohm).

I plan a station with switchable double output, therefore the need for a trimmer for each output to compensate differences of the individual ceramic elements. At the end, the ceramic PTC, the trimmer and the adjustment poti would all be in series.

Is this project feasible, or is there an error in my thinking somewhere?

Regards,

Julez

Edit:

I realized the project described above. Here is a link:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/simple-diy-soldering-station-for-hakko-907-iron/
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 12:25:07 pm by Julez »
 

Offline KludgeIt

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2016, 06:28:18 am »
Here is Yihua soldering station, complete, price speaks for itself:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_US_Warehouse_.html

And, here is a replacement ceramic element, for when the element needs replaced, for the above Yihua Station:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Heating-Element-Heater-for-AT936b-AT8586-ATTEN-Soldering-Station-Iron/2048897418.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.89Z9nu&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_2_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10004_10009_10008,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6452&btsid=94afe2ba-7f15-46d9-a13f-9613be6cc0f2

The above element is commonly referred to as a 132A, Atten element, or generally, when already installed in the handle, referred to as a AT936b handle.

This is a Hakko Dashboard/controller, just add case, 24v ~4A transformer, and a Hakko 907 handle with a Hakko A1321 heating element.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAKKO936-Soldering-station-control-panel-PCB-A1321-Core-Male-or-Female-Interface-/131489348409?var=&hash=item1e9d603b39:m:mnJ_IE8iiaW_Vhgp7YajMvw
(make sure to choose the option of plug type to match the plug on your handle)

And here is a A1321 Hakko/clone element:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-White-Heating-Element-for-HAKKO-Soldering-Station-Iron-A1321-936-937-CA-/161949033608?hash=item25b4ea2488:g:Cf4AAOSwoydWjqMI

The main point here is, the 132A Yihua element is NOT a hakko element, and the Yihua station MUST be used with a Yihua compatable handle/element.

And, likewise, the A1321 Hakko element is NOT a Yihua element, and works with the Hakko controller/dashboard, above.

Frankly, any iron which gets hot enough to melt the solder I am working with, AND maintains a relative consistant temp while soldering the materials I am working with, IS ALL I REALLY NEED.

I find soldering irons like Vodka, any brand which gets me drunk is just fine, and I have found most to work well.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2016, 06:59:57 am »
KludgeIt, have you found whole replacement irons for the Yihua 936?
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline KludgeIt

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  • Posts: 22
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Re: Hakko 936 ceramic heater A1321 vs fake comparison
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2016, 07:38:49 am »
KludgeIt, have you found whole replacement irons for the Yihua 936?

I ordered this one, thinking it would work on my Hakko 936, however, the heater, pins 1-2, was ~12 ohms (hakko is ~4ohms), and the sensor, pins 4-5, was around 2ohms (Hakko is ~50 ohms), so I plugged it into my Yihua, and am using it now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381474354799?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

However, if you look at the "item specifics" on this page, this states it will work the 936, and mentions that number:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-ESD-Solder-Iron-Handle-858D-909D-852D-for-SAIKE-kada-ATTEN-YIHUA-Five-hole/32280730916.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.194.KOPWzS&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_10020_502_10014_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201560_5,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6452&btsid=1676ee98-84c0-4b8d-a245-6ed2681dfa9d

The problem is, these sellers are as confused as we are out here, and many are selling handles which are NOT really for the soldering station they suggest.

I recommend using the knowledge in my first post, above, and attempting to read all the fine print, to deduce which station they will actually work with.

As putting the wrong handle on the wrong controller has always resulted in burning out the heating element, IN SHORT ORDER, but no other damage done.

The 132A - Yihua - atten heating element has different wires than the Hakko A1321. There is a POLARITY, on the 132A sensor/thermo-couple, and the wires to the sensor are usually red and blue, or blue and yellow. The Hakko is a thermo-resistor, and has no polarity, and everyone I have gotten have blue leads to the sensor. If the listing shows an element laid beside the handle in question, this can be used to help confirm the handle will work on the particular station in question.

If you have a handle, and want to determine which station it will work on, you can remove the tip, and metal heat shield -- CAREFULLY, and inspect the element, and you should be able to determine that from those sensor wires. Also, on th A1321 element, BOTH heater wires have been RED on mine, and CLEAR/TRANSPARENT on the 132A Yihua elements. And, even the insulation, on the wires, itself, are of different materials bettween the Hakko and Yihua elements -- use ebay or aliexpress and the pictures to see what you are looking for, on the elements.

I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 08:01:24 am by KludgeIt »
 


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