EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: Homer J Simpson on January 13, 2013, 02:53:38 pm
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Looking for a good non aerosol, flux cleaner / remover.
Please recommend a good brand, price and supplier for the US.
Id did some searching. Seems like most is in a spray can or sold in 1 gallon amounts.
Would be nice to find about a liter size.
Thanks
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I did find this...
http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/product-detail.aspx?pn=411-872 (http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/product-detail.aspx?pn=411-872)
Never heard of the manufacturer but that is basically what I am looking for.
I do have 99% alcohol but on some stuff it does not work that great.
KT
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Electrolube Fluxclene is good stuff, Farnell has it here (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=DDJI4RC2MDCRCCQLCIRJPQQ?N=0&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=fluxclene&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&exposeLevel2Refinement=true&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=213656)
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I second that.
But ITW Chemtronics - Flux Off is pretty good too.
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Flux Off is very good I use it a lot, also I use isopropanol.
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Flux Off is very good I use it a lot, also I use isopropanol.
Same here. I use the 99% IPA at the bench and Flux Off in the ultrasonic bath.
We like these brushes on the bench:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Techspray/2032-1BULK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtYFXwiBRPs04PSgpLK8qTW (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Techspray/2032-1BULK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtYFXwiBRPs04PSgpLK8qTW)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Techspray/2022-1BULK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtYFXwiBRPs02Vv/vrgmxLX (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Techspray/2022-1BULK/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtYFXwiBRPs02Vv/vrgmxLX)
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The Chemtronix flux-off works pretty well. However some types of bio-ethanol work even better but you have to be lucky and find the right stuff.
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What actually removes flux really well is Xylene. BUT and this is a big BUT, it always can discolor certain plastics. I've never had it remove silk screen or do anything to IC's or other parts, I have had it discolor power connectors and headphone jacks. It absolutely cleans every single trace of flux away, it ends up looking shinny and bright like it was professionally treated. Again, don't forget the BUT.
Denatured alcohol also works somewhat OK, Isopropyl alcohol about the same.
Xylene however for me cleans as fast and as good as any commercial spray cleaner I've used, just remember that BUT I mentioned above. The good part about it is it's cheap and readily available at your local hardware store. Ohh and another note, don't use it indoors.
What I normally end up doing is de-fluxing with Xylene after all my main components are in place and then soldering in any plastic based items and just using a q-tip and xylene to clean the rest. No need for an ultrasonic bath, this stuff removes the flux instantly and leaves nothing behind. A mild toothbrush can be used when in doubt along with it.
Have fun, and as always my tips come without warranty.
Jeff
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I have an old oscilloscope on the way from Ebay, which contains a whole load of electrolytic capacitors that are known to leak and die over time. I plan to replace the whole lot as soon as it turns up.
Anyone know of anything better than Flux-off for getting rid of leaked electrolyte?
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well I checked out the Chemtronics web site. http://www.chemtronics.com/home.asp (http://www.chemtronics.com/home.asp)
Here is their Flux Remover line of products. http://www.chemtronics.com/products/americas/e/flux_removers.asp (http://www.chemtronics.com/products/americas/e/flux_removers.asp)
There are 11 different products in the line.
What is the recommendation for best all around product.
Also, looks like if you what a non spray from them 1 gallon is the smallest you can get.
Thanks
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Flux-Off Aqueous Flux Remover used only in the ultrasonic bath. Gallon sized only.
http://www.chemtronics.com/products/product.asp?r=1&m=2&id=77 (http://www.chemtronics.com/products/product.asp?r=1&m=2&id=77)
IPA does well when used with good brushes and vigorous action.
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Flux-Off Aqueous Flux Remover used only in the ultrasonic bath. Gallon sized only.
http://www.chemtronics.com/products/product.asp?r=1&m=2&id=77 (http://www.chemtronics.com/products/product.asp?r=1&m=2&id=77)
IPA does well when used with good brushes and vigorous action.
Not bad for the price really. I'll keep using Xylene of course until I one day damage something. I should just find a mixture of Xylene and something else that makes the Xylene safer. A ton of products use Xylene and don't harm plastics. Many of your glue removers use it. For the price however the official looking product is not a bad way to go.
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Just IPA and a little scrubbing with one of those small brushes gets the job done without anything too toxic or expensive. The thing to keep in mind when using IPA (or probably any other solvent) is that once you put a little IPA on and dissolve the flux, you need to rinse that IPA away with more IPA or else when it evaporates you will have a bigger flux mess than when you started. The post scrubbing rinse is the most important part, no matter what you use. Just make sure all the parts like pots and connectors are wash rated before you flood the thing.
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Xylene doesn't sound very healthy to me. Even when its not highly toxic solvents do have a bad effect on the nerve system.
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I'm using 2 step process. First pass is boiling in 70% IPA which takes out the bulk of flux residue, second final clean with 99% IPA in ultrasonic bath. Works very well.
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Xylene doesn't sound very healthy to me. Even when its not highly toxic solvents do have a bad effect on the nerve system.
Correct, it's pretty nasty stuff. It's also fairly widely used in many types of solvent cleaners. I like it because it leaves the board and components incredibly clean looking without much work. It also dissolves under a component as well. It's never done any harm to IC's, caps, resistors..etc. I wouldn't use it around trim pots all that much, might mess with them. I would say it's best used for spot work rather then full on showers of the stuff. I've of course done both.
IPA followed with distilled water might work out well. IPA followed by IPA of course does. The problem I have with IPA is getting it to clean well between pins, under stuff..etc. When I built my SDR radio kit it didn't work as well until I got it spotless with xylene. A buddy of mine used Chemtronics products on his kit and had just as good of results. IPA just wasn't cutting it.
Food for thought.
Jeff
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I'm using 2 step process. First pass is boiling in 70% IPA which takes out the bulk of flux residue, second final clean with 99% IPA in ultrasonic bath. Works very well.
Sounds quite scary to me. Is it a critical application that requires such hazardous measures as heating and vaporizing a flammable liquid?
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I just use denatured alcohol and a brush like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Acid-Brushes-6-w-Horsehair-Bristles-for-Solder-Flux-Contact-Cement-etc-/300833757500?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460b16d93c (http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Acid-Brushes-6-w-Horsehair-Bristles-for-Solder-Flux-Contact-Cement-etc-/300833757500?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460b16d93c)
I cut the bristles down to about 4mm or so the brush is a lot stiffer. Seems to work fine so far.
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Sounds quite scary to me. Is it a critical application that requires such hazardous measures as heating and vaporizing a flammable liquid?
It's called process design. Water bath and stuff. 70% IPA is very cheap but it doesn't wash very well, that's why I'm heating it. Ultrasonic in second step is heated too, BTW, for the same reason.
I used to do first step in ultrasonic as well, but good wash took too much time, about 30 minutes, so I switched to boiling. It's not that scary, actually. I once had a girlfriend who designs microfabrication processes for a living. A young lady had no problem boiling acetone on a hot plate - that's how they wash off photo resist from the wafers.
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I don't really mind the 30-45 minutes with Flux-Off in the heated ultrasonic since we only wash a few boards a week. I use DI water to rinse the boards afterwards. It is a relatively safe low volume solution.
I am genuinely curious:
What were the design considerations that made IPA the best solution?
Are a fume hood and fire suppression needed?
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I don't really mind the 30-45 minutes with Flux-Off in the heated ultrasonic since we only wash a few boards a week. I use DI water to rinse the boards afterwards. It is a relatively safe low volume solution.
I am genuinely curious:
What were the design considerations that made IPA the best solution?
Are a fume hood and fire suppression needed?
I'm also curious why iso does a better job than denatured alcohol. I thought it was just the same thing (ethanol) with something added that makes it so you can't drink it. I emailed the company I get my denatured alcohol from and they assured me the additive is in such small quantities that it will not affect anything, he didn't say what the additive was just that it isn't methanol like I thought it might be. He wouldn't say what it was, I got the feeling he didn't know or just didn't want it public knowledge.
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What do you do with Flux Off and DI water after you're done washing?
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he didn't say what the additive was just that it isn't methanol like I thought it might be. He wouldn't say what it was
I can't use such chemicals. I need to know what's in it or at least an exact list of "anything".
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As usual I should have done my research before posting :palm:
This wikipedia article is very informative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol)
Looks like I will be buying a litre or so of it next chance I get.
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I bought some 99.95% Isopropyl Alcohol. I let my boards sit in there for a minute or two. Then take it out and scrub it using a tooth brush, then put it back in the IPA. Then take it out and put the board under running water with a tooth brush and it works great!!
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What were the design considerations that made IPA the best solution?
It depends, again, on what is considered "best". IPA is cheap, easily obtainable and relatively safe on plastics and on the operator (I saw people cleaning freshly built clean rooms with IPA and not wearing respirators). It can be recycled, too.
Are a fume hood and fire suppression needed?
It depends on your facility. If you're aiming to be ISO-certified then I'm not the right source of advice. I run small scale operation and it seems safe enough for my needs.
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What were the design considerations that made IPA the best solution?
It depends, again, on what is considered "best". IPA is cheap, easily obtainable and relatively safe on plastics and on the operator (I saw people cleaning freshly built clean rooms with IPA and not wearing respirators). It can be recycled, too.
Are a fume hood and fire suppression needed?
It depends on your facility. If you're aiming to be ISO-certified then I'm not the right source of advice. I run small scale operation and it seems safe enough for my needs.
We let the boards drip relatively dry over the ultrasonic and then rinse with DI. The DI goes down the drain. The flux-off is changed out quarterly and is disposed of according to local, state and federal guidelines.
I am always open to better/safer/cleaner ways of doing it. ;D
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he didn't say what the additive was just that it isn't methanol like I thought it might be. He wouldn't say what it was
I can't use such chemicals. I need to know what's in it or at least an exact list of "anything".
Yeah, the only thing he would say is that the additive is in such a small quantity that I can just use it as though it isn't there. Having said that I'm going ot order some ISO and maybe some xylene from a chemical supply company when I get back to work tomorrow.
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I don't drain anything. IPA is extracted from the dirty wash, salted out to 99%, distilled and recycled. Solids are stored on site in old milk jugs, typical accumulation is one gallon per 10 years. Final dealing with solids will be left to my estate :-).
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Yeah, the only thing he would say is that the additive is in such a small quantity that I can just use it as though it isn't there.
This is nonsense. Can you, for example, drink it pretending it's not there? Or drinking is not considered "use"?
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Yeah, the only thing he would say is that the additive is in such a small quantity that I can just use it as though it isn't there.
This is nonsense. Can you, for example, drink it pretending it's not there? Or drinking is not considered "use"?
yeah I don't exactly trust the advice I was given by the rep but to be fair, you can have poisonous substances that poisonous at minute quantities so he may be telling the truth.
I have been using it so far with decent results but like I said before I will be ordering some IPA or maybe large qty of some solvent blends that are designed for the purpose.
I'll be watching this thread in case someone chimes in with a better idea 8)
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Normally the additive is a bad tasting flavouring like Vilex or Bitrex. Others use methanol or propanol as additives to make it unpalatable. Others add esters to give it a odd taste or ketones to make you violently ill. Really depends on the supplier, and often varies from batch to batch. Generally there is a light analine dye added as well to colour it. If you are worried pass through an activated charcol filter and a lot of the additive will be held back. you can recycle through the charcoal filter as well to remove a lot of dissolved solids, though you will need a prefilter of around 0.3 microns to remove a lot of the solids.
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Normally the additive is a bad tasting flavouring like Vilex or Bitrex. Others use methanol or propanol as additives to make it unpalatable. Others add esters to give it a odd taste or ketones to make you violently ill. Really depends on the supplier, and often varies from batch to batch. Generally there is a light analine dye added as well to colour it. If you are worried pass through an activated charcol filter and a lot of the additive will be held back. you can recycle through the charcoal filter as well to remove a lot of dissolved solids, though you will need a prefilter of around 0.3 microns to remove a lot of the solids.
Thanks for the info. The product I have is called methylated spirits and the brand is called diggers. It's a brand name sold by a company here called bunnings. I kind of assumed by the name it was methanol that is the additive but the rep I spoke to wouldn't confirm or deny it. Iso is really expensive from normal places but I think I can get it for a decent price if I look hard enough. Suppliers in east of australia have some decent prices but I'm in the west so shipping adds a lot to the price. I haven't looked around locally yet though.
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Look at your auto parts store for gas line antifreeze that is 99% isopropyl. In the US I buy it for $1.39 for 10oz. bottle (case price) which works out to $17.79 per gallon. This is the cheapest 99% I have found in the US.
Do you even need gas line antifreeze in Australia? :palm:
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Please clarify 'gas' line, in australia gas actually means gas only, it does not refer to a liquid.
Oh and Santa didn't bring me your workshop. (putting it on next years list)
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Gasoline or Petrol (Liquid) the stuff you put in your car ;D
Sorry to hear about Santa dropping the ball. :'(
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Just note if the additive is methanol you cannot filter it out, or distill it out either, as the boiling point ranges for methanol and ethanol overlap quite broadly. Normally the bitter and odour is added as a tracer, the methanol being the adulterant to make it lethal to drink ( though the gents of the road here can drink it neat........... must have livers you can use as shoe soles) in any amount.
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I've bought 99.6% ipa at a small local electronics store for about 2$ for 0.5 liters. It's really not that expensive.