Author Topic: Looking for single core conductor  (Read 4509 times)

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Offline akis

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Looking for single core conductor
« on: May 12, 2015, 08:57:02 pm »
Around 1.1-1.2mm diameter, of the same type used on leaded components, like resistors, capacitors, diodes etc. What's special by those component leads is that they are very solder friendly, even if dirty, even if not shiny, the smallest application of solder catches immediately.

I have bought a quantity of single core wires of multiple colours, perfect for use for breadboard jumper cables. But when I try to use these wires for soldering it seems the solder does not catch. They are made of copper with some sort of tin coating, or so they say. They are absolutely a nightmare to try and solder, not unless I use flux which then mucks my whole PCB.

If you know of what type of single core wire is used on leaded components, around 1.2mm dia, please tell me.
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 02:18:24 am »
Try "tin plated bus wire"?

I wouldn't say "catches [solder] immediately", it still needs flux.  Maybe you meant that it catches [rosin-core] solder [wire] immediately?

Silver (untarnished) and gold plate catch solder so well they almost don't need flux at all.  Silver plated wire would be pretty available I think, though maybe not at the same pricing.  To be fair, bus wire probably looks better over time (staying a dull tin color) than silver would, if appearance is any concern.

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Offline PeterFW

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2015, 02:37:40 am »
Around 1.1-1.2mm diameter, of the same type used on leaded components, like resistors, capacitors, diodes etc.
(...)
If you know of what type of single core wire is used on leaded components, around 1.2mm dia, please tell me.

Today that is most likely tin plated steel, it used to be copper a long time ago i think (might be wrong on that one).
I use silver plated bus wire, bought a spool 10 years ago, still solders like a dream.
This is tin plated copper hook-up wire, should do nicely:

http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Wire/296-SV005/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tP3vRKvSV%252bpq8PGjs0otDsk%3d

http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Belden-Wire-Cable/8020-000100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tI6wojgoAABg2bxbTi9hOzA%3d

« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 04:47:27 am by PeterFW »
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2015, 03:50:18 am »
Nickel plating is a pain to tin.  If you can get it with a gold or other over-plating, you'll have a much easier time.

Tim
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Offline PeterFW

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2015, 04:46:02 am »
Nickel plating is a pain to tin.  If you can get it with a gold or other over-plating, you'll have a much easier time.

Of course i ment tin, i have no idea why my brain wrote nickel....
 

Offline akis

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 07:46:03 am »
Many thanks I am looking now.
 

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 07:52:57 am »
Ah.. :)

Also, for parts that have truly massive leads like 1mm+, they're probably that size for a reason, and probably made of tinned copper.  Diodes and magnetics come to mind (the magnetics usually being self-supporting inductors, where the wire in the winding itself simply goes down and out, being tinned).

Among leaded resistors, I think you'd find steel for most things, like sand resistors.  Really old carbon comp I think used solder plated copper, in pretty large sizes for the bigger ones and such.

Tim
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 08:11:31 am »
I got a few metres of this "tinned jumper wire" from China last year. They work just like the component leads and catch the solder very well (see blob on wire end) and come in different diameters. Mine is 0.5mm. They usually sell them in 100m spools though and they are heavy so I'm not sure if  you can find them on eBay etc.

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Offline akis

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 09:08:25 am »
That's the thing that I do not think you have realised. None of the component leads that I have seen, be that 1.2mm on power diodes, or 0.8mm on resistors and capacitors, I do not think any of these leads are copper, because when I cut it, I never see copper inside.

Whereas the single core wire that I bought thinking it was the same, is definitely copper inside and something shiny, and impossible to solder on, outside. As I keep using this wire the whatever is on the outside wears off at the exposed ends, and you can see the copper coming through. This external substance also blackens with time (no heat involved), before it wears off completely.

I believe the component leads are made with something different and that they are not tinned copper or anything copper.
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 09:32:45 am »
That's the thing that I do not think you have realised. None of the component leads that I have seen, be that 1.2mm on power diodes, or 0.8mm on resistors and capacitors, I do not think any of these leads are copper, because when I cut it, I never see copper inside.

Whereas the single core wire that I bought thinking it was the same, is definitely copper inside and something shiny, and impossible to solder on, outside. As I keep using this wire the whatever is on the outside wears off at the exposed ends, and you can see the copper coming through. This external substance also blackens with time (no heat involved), before it wears off completely.

I believe the component leads are made with something different and that they are not tinned copper or anything copper.

Hmm... I don't see any copper colour inside this wire I've got here either. And I can easily solder on the shiny surface too. I got it because I needed to help some friends make some quick and cheap one-off light-up signs for a concert with cardboard and a bunch of LEDs paralleled together, and this wire was just what I needed :) Something like this: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/01KrP__e2S0/hqdefault.jpg 
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 01:34:22 pm »
Remember you might not see any copper at all, because diagonal cutters tend to drag the surface down along for the ride.  A tinned copper wire tends to look silver on the cut ends unless you take the trouble to file/sand/grind down the end.

Like, here's a probably somewhat exceptional case.  Biggest glass body diode I have, 1N4742A (possibly JAN?).  Feels like nice soft copper leads.  Magnetic.  Probably nickel plated then.

Wait... the...hell?

Well, see for yourself;



31.5 mil (0.80 mm) o.d., apparently solder/tin plated copper OVER A STEEL CORE.

I can't say I've seen that before.

So you know how there's arguments where, some people say it's always X, and the other people say it's always Y... well apparently, sometimes it's X and Y.

I doubt this is by any means a typical construction, but it shows they weren't always just one or the other.

Other diodes: DO-201 style (rectifier and zener/TVS types) seem to fit with, oh hey, this datasheet gives composition, cool: http://www.centralsemi.com/PDFs/case/DO-201PD.pdf

1N914/4148 seem to be tinned steel, magnetic, as well as other DO-34 rectifiers and zeners.

1N2805A (50W 7.5V zener, TO-3 package) is heavy and nonmagnetic; seems to be plated copper, of all things.  TO-3 are usually assembled by spot welding the top cover to the base, but that's only possible with steel; this one must be soldered, which seems unusual, but is probably quite reasonable for something as robust as a diode.  Die attach might be solder as well.  (Die attach in the above datasheet is claimed to be nearly pure lead.)  Leads are apparently gold plated steel (magnetic, quite stiff), presumably with an underplating of copper (for adhesion) then nickel (diffusion barrier).  (No, nickel plating wouldn't account for the attraction.)

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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2015, 12:02:21 am »
Them old diodes had Kovar leads.
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Online edavid

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2015, 12:55:00 am »
I have bought a quantity of single core wires of multiple colours, perfect for use for breadboard jumper cables. But when I try to use these wires for soldering it seems the solder does not catch. They are made of copper with some sort of tin coating, or so they say. They are absolutely a nightmare to try and solder, not unless I use flux which then mucks my whole PCB.

There's something wrong with that wire, or it wasn't intended for soldering... normal copper hookup wire is very easy to solder.  Just buy any other wire, and you won't have the problem.
 

Offline akis

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2015, 09:22:00 am »
This is the offending wire

Solid Tinned Annealed Copper Wire, PVC Insulation
Reference Standard: DEF 61-12 (Part 6) Type 2 BS4808 Part 2
Application
Intended for the internal wiring of electronic and other equipment
Construction
Conductor
Material  : Solid Tinned Annealed Copper Wire
Stranding  : Solid (1/0.6mm)
Wire Gauge  : 23 AWG
CSA  : 0.283mm
2
Insulation
Material  : PVC
Nominal O.D  : 1.2mm
Colour  : See table below
Physical Properties
Min. Bend Radius  : 12mm
Operating Temperature  : -15°C to 90°C

I challenge anyone to try and solder this crap wire. And I have bought 100s of metres of it.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2015, 11:02:20 am »
This is the offending wire

Solid Tinned Annealed Copper Wire, PVC Insulation
Reference Standard: DEF 61-12 (Part 6) Type 2 BS4808 Part 2
Application
Intended for the internal wiring of electronic and other equipment
Construction
Conductor
Material  : Solid Tinned Annealed Copper Wire
Stranding  : Solid (1/0.6mm)
Wire Gauge  : 23 AWG
CSA  : 0.283mm
2
Insulation
Material  : PVC
Nominal O.D  : 1.2mm
Colour  : See table below
Physical Properties
Min. Bend Radius  : 12mm
Operating Temperature  : -15°C to 90°C

I challenge anyone to try and solder this crap wire. And I have bought 100s of metres of it.

I'll need a longer extension cord.
*Except AC/DC adapters on eBay. Avoid them all!
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2015, 06:25:53 am »
Around 1.1-1.2mm diameter, of the same type used on leaded components, like resistors, capacitors, diodes etc. What's special by those component leads is that they are very solder friendly, even if dirty, even if not shiny, the smallest application of solder catches immediately.

I have bought a quantity of single core wires of multiple colours, perfect for use for breadboard jumper cables. But when I try to use these wires for soldering it seems the solder does not catch. They are made of copper with some sort of tin coating, or so they say. They are absolutely a nightmare to try and solder, not unless I use flux which then mucks my whole PCB.

If you know of what type of single core wire is used on leaded components, around 1.2mm dia, please tell me.
have had similar experiences. But that wire was ages old. Maybe the PVC insulation is reacting with the tinning making it difficult to solder.

Id look for kynar/tefzel/ptfe insulated wire, never had solderability problems with these and insulation wont melt and escape when soldering.
 

Offline artag

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2015, 12:12:33 pm »
What solder / core are you using ?

Tinned copper wire is great when new, but poor when dirty. Perhaps yours has been stored somewhere poorly and has oxidised. I find that 'modern' solder - even if tin/lead has a very poor flux core that only works well on really clean surfaces. Rosin-cored solder, on the other hand, will usually work fine. I almost never use an external flux.
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2015, 03:27:53 pm »
I've seen very old stuff that wouldn't take solder, and probably more moderate to new wire which had the same kind of finish.  Tins like nickel plate, but doesn't look like it.

Could very well be possible that some formulations have a reaction with the plastic that enhances the surface layer (whatever it is, oxide or otherwise).

Using extra rosin seems to do okay on it.  Or scraping/sanding if you're really desperate.

Tim
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Offline akis

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Re: Looking for single core conductor
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2015, 07:49:08 pm »
When I strip the PVC jacket off the wire they are shiny new, they definitely are not looking rusty or dirty. Another thing I have noticed is that when I apply the sodering iron to the exposed lead it turns black, and even if there is a solder blob, it is held mechanically and loosely so sometimes I can pull it out of the centre of the blob and I can see the blackened face. However if I dip the exposed lead into flux, the aggressive corrossive one, and then put solder on it, after it fizzes and screams the solder takes. Obviously then I have to clean the lead meticulously before placing it anywhere, it's a pain. So some time ago I started using multicore 24 AWG and 26 AWG for interconnections, even fixed ones directly soldered on the board.

I bought this: http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15001&langId=44&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=1465905&storeId=10151

I will use it for supporting PCBs mainly.
 


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