EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: moutoulos on April 10, 2012, 03:57:04 pm
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Hi I'm Greg, and I'm from Greece. This is my first post here :).
So ... all this time I want it to buy, a solder station Hakko 936. I know is discontinued
but it is beautiful for me, and more retro from FX888 ;).
So I found one in the last month (more clones), and seller told me it is original. So I buy it,
for 130$. The station come to me, but I thing the PCB board it is clone. Very disappoint ...
I open my Hakko and I take photo, putting in a album (about 25 photo), to see it and tell me
finally, is original or clone ?. However It work fine ...
The station goes from 20-30 oC to about 350 oC, in 5-6 sec. In idle mode (STBY) have 28VAC.
I full mode (Red Led ON) have 23VAC.
Here is the photo album link:
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/moutoulos/misc/Hakko%20936/ (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/moutoulos/misc/Hakko%20936/)
The circuit schematic I think is this (one and only LM358)
(http://www.scipia.com/common_img/solderingstation/lm358_simple.png)
In attachments files, I have the original PCB Board from here (http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=2074&Page=1), and original station schematic.
Best Regards
Greg Panagiotou
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definitely a counterfeit , the schematic is completely different and it's missing the UPC1701C .
So... you can't send it back to the dealer anymore ...
Anyway , your original one is missing the heatsink ::)
Hakko's site present the NEC triac bolted on to a piece of aluminium
And i'm quite surprised to see Hakko using a resistive divider for the controlling circuit voltage :'(
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Yes, its counterfeit, sorry to say. The PCBs are poorly cleaned out, wrong design and since you can easily obtain the Hakko 936 schematic and photo of the PCB, the differences are clear. Here is a subtle difference only a real 936 owner would notice easily:
Your photo of the soldering iron cradle:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/moutoulos/misc/Hakko%20936/Clone.jpg)
The real cradle. The idea of Hakko was that the sponge doesn't get soaked in water, but stays damp. The circles serve as water reservoir yet keep the sponge suspended above it. To dampen the sponge you simply push down for it to pick up more water or if you still have the center circular piece, you insert it into one of the circles to keep the big square sponge connected to the water. Those subtle little items that Hakko thinks about make Hakko, Hakko. FWIW, the schematic of the true 936 is fairly easy to copy, its old technology. But to save money, some clones don't bother, but some do!
(http://www.head-fi.org/image/id/792440/width/900/height/900/flags/LL)
More detailed comparisons of other copies vs original:
http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/view/id/21715/user_id/168345 (http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/view/id/21715/user_id/168345)
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MY "BEST" 936 clone ( the one in black )
Came with such a iron holder that looks like the original .
The newer one i bought came with a smaller one that doesn't have the circles and is a hell lot lighter .
Looks like the company's user manual went up but the product went down ... At least they gave the brass remover dome for free .
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The clones don't use the original circuit because it's cheaper to design and produce their own controller. The real one has a quad opamp and separate driver IC for the triac, whereas this one only uses a dual opamp and transistor. The triac driver IC is hard to find and much more expensive than a 2n3906. $130 is too much, if you wanted a 936 style station you could've gotten one for much less.
Original's schematic, PCB, and BOM:
http://www.n0ss.net/hakko_936_schem-pcb_&_mod_v1r7.pdf (http://www.n0ss.net/hakko_936_schem-pcb_&_mod_v1r7.pdf)
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The clones don't use the original circuit because it's cheaper to design and produce their own controller. The real one has a quad opamp and separate driver IC for the triac, whereas this one only uses a dual opamp and transistor. The triac driver IC is hard to find and much more expensive than a 2n3906. $130 is too much, if you wanted a 936 style station you could've gotten one for much less.
Original's schematic, PCB, and BOM:
http://www.n0ss.net/hakko_936_schem-pcb_&_mod_v1r7.pdf (http://www.n0ss.net/hakko_936_schem-pcb_&_mod_v1r7.pdf)
Aliexpress had one for $37.90 he certainly got ripped off very badly .
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Hakko thinks it works far better than a simpler cheaper variant, so they patented it. Another reason for paying slightly more for the real Hakko.
http://www.google.je/patents/US6054678?printsec=abstract (http://www.google.je/patents/US6054678?printsec=abstract)
The clones don't use the original circuit because it's cheaper to design and produce their own controller. The real one has a quad opamp and separate driver IC for the triac, whereas this one only uses a dual opamp and transistor. The triac driver IC is hard to find and much more expensive than a 2n3906. $130 is too much, if you wanted a 936 style station you could've gotten one for much less.
Original's schematic, PCB, and BOM:
http://www.n0ss.net/hakko_936_schem-pcb_&_mod_v1r7.pdf (http://www.n0ss.net/hakko_936_schem-pcb_&_mod_v1r7.pdf)
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"Slighty" more . Heh , you can say that in the US but for us the price difference is too large to usurp .
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Dave.S, if those prices are right, its not worth it, I'd look for competing models. Are these similar prices in Singapore as in the EU?
"Slighty" more . Heh , you can say that in the US but for us the price difference is too large to usurp .
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Dave.S, if those prices are right, its not worth it, I'd look for competing models. Are these similar prices in Singapore as in the EU?
"Slighty" more . Heh , you can say that in the US but for us the price difference is too large to usurp .
200$ for the 220V FX-888 .
68$ for my BEST 936 that has never failed me .
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Same in Portugal, 150€ for the FX-888, when in the USA its less than half of that, damm those americans and their low prices :'(
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Same in Portugal, 150€ for the FX-888, when in the USA its less than half of that, damm those americans and their low prices :'(
In everything, electronic gear, tools, components americans have low prices.
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Ok guys thanks for all. I contacted with seller, return me some money, as refund.
Thanks Again
Greg