If you were buying a T12 or 210/245 today, which one would you recommend ?

[all_repair]

T12.  So many non-standard uselful tips made by the Chinese hackers/sellers.  More than a soldering iron you shall get. 

[tony359]

it's a cheap solder iron thermometer similar to the one you linked - so it's designed for that task. It measures my room temperature correctly!

Yes, I can see that for the average soldering you'll never get full power into the tip unless you tip your tip (!) in water or on a wet sponge, which is not real world scenario. Even the "coin test" is kind of pointless, I don't solder on copper pipes with my T245! It's like a "sequential" speed test for an SSD: you'll never see that in normal use!

What really matters is accuracy, how quickly the station reacts to temperature change and not having all sort of issues due to grounding/voltage leak/firmware
I've done limited tests on the JBC but for now "it just works". I'm sure there is a cheaper alternative that also "just works" - that's not the T3A. 

[DavidAlfa]

C245 will do great but only if you're willing to pay for original JBC tips, chinese clones perform worse and burn in no time compared to $3 T12 tips.

[dl6lr]

C245 will do great but only if you're willing to pay for original JBC tips, chinese clones perform worse and burn in no time compared to $3 T12 tips.

I am not convinced with T12 tips. I got some from KSGER along with the base and I can tip them into a glass of water. The station then indicates 320°C with 20% power. Same with bigger solder joints, I can solder the tip to the joint and it takes "forever" to heat it up to be freed.
After abt. one year of irregular use, the voltage regulator (ME6203A50) of the board died.

[DavidAlfa]

It heavily depends on the tip, some have a poor heater-body bond, so the thermocouple might read 350ºC while the solder is barely melting.
Performance between two same tips can be completely different, that's what you get for $3.
BTW your tip will die soon after submerging it under water - I did so as my testing load when tuning the firmware PID, all tips died soon afterwards.
Also be realistic about the power delivery and the tip profile, JBC or not, a thin tip won't be able of putting 80W anywhere.

I can't speak of KSGER, but for mew in CFW the power will easily reach 70-80% when dipping the tip in alcohol, just tested it with D12 and D08 tips (Pretty thin) @ 350ºC, about 5mm deep.
A thicker one like D32 will max out pretty easily.

[tony359]

I feel there is some R&D and metallurgic expertise when it comes to soldering tip. JBC/Hakko might be overpriced but when you buy 10 tips for £10, you get what you pay for. Metals and processes cost money! You can copy and save on R&D but the manufacturing process is still there!

I've always purchased genuine Hakko for my Hakko knock-off. The supplied Aoyue were awful, night and day compared to the Hakko's.

[Arts]

I got the JBC.

Something inside me says it's overpriced - and I do feel it is. But... it works. No voltage leak, no temperature going all over the place. And when doing the "coin test", it performs as good or better than the Aixun which is supposed to be almost twice the power. Assuming my thermometer works, I had to offset the temp by 20C which was unexpected. But then everything works as expected. That weird feeling "it just works!"

The updater software was as bad as the Aixun's though. The station comes with a software which is newer than the one available online. I downloaded the updater anyways to check, the program found an update to the program itself at first install (?), it downloaded itself and installed it but failed to add a link to my Start Menu. Took me a while to find it! And then it said the station doesn't need an update!

ks!

One thing I liked of the Aixun was the separate stand, so the station could be kept on a shelf and the small holder on the workbench. Not the end of the world but...

When I first started using my JBC I found that having it in my work area took up too much space. I picked up a separate stand, the JBC "ADS" model, in order to retain the setback and sleep modes, and having more tip storage was a nice bonus. I ended up machining another 4-hole tip holder that I have attached to the rear of the stand, allowing me to have all of my most-used tips at hand.

One small issue was that this stand was not manufactured for use with the CD-1 power station.  Although it uses the same connectors, I needed to rewire the connecting cable. If you go this route, let me know and I'll shoot you my revised connection diagram.

[all_repair]

I've always purchased genuine Hakko for my Hakko knock-off. The supplied Aoyue were awful, night and day compared to the Hakko's.

Don't want to wait and sometime cannot wait when there is a need, usualy I load up as many type of tips as possible.  To save, I went for the used original T12 tips that the Japanese factories discard way prematurely due to the strict QC.  They are good enough for my occasional use of the weird tips.  As usual, when there is sale volume, there are clones :-) 

[elektryk]

It heavily depends on the tip, some have a poor heater-body bond, so the thermocouple might read 350ºC while the solder is barely melting.
Performance between two same tips can be completely different, that's what you get for $3.
BTW your tip will die soon after submerging it under water - I did so as my testing load when tuning the firmware PID, all tips died soon afterwards.
Also be realistic about the power delivery and the tip profile, JBC or not, a thin tip won't be able of putting 80W anywhere.

I can't speak of KSGER, but for mew in CFW the power will easily reach 70-80% when dipping the tip in alcohol, just tested it with D12 and D08 tips (Pretty thin) @ 350ºC, about 5mm deep.
A thicker one like D32 will max out pretty easily.

What usually dies sooner, tip or heater?
I've tested some OSS Team branded C245 and that ones performed good. Eg. I was able to desolder DPAK transistor from a computer motherboard with K type.
I'm not sure about the durability but heat transfer seems to be not worse than T12. The only problem is that OSS has a very little types to choice.

[DavidAlfa]

Always the heater or internal connections, never got any chinese T12 for longer than 1 year with little use.
But acceptable for $3.

[shapirus]

I don't know guys. I've got probably a dozen T12 tips, all bought from aliexpress (of course after checking the 1-2-3-star reviews). The only problem I have ever experienced with them was that they often needed to be sort of "broken in", i.e., left running for a certain time at first turn-on: the temperature readings are very unstable at first, but then they stabilize, and you can proceed to calibration. After that, not a single problem in ~14 months since I converted to T12. All the tips are still like new, they work, and they don't require recalibration.

Speaking of the soldering station itself, mine is KSGER T12, STM32 V2.01. That generation did not have chassis wired to earth, so I had to drill a hole, sand off anodizing in a few spots to make sure that all parts of the housing had electrical contact, and add that earthing wire myself. Oh, and I also reversed orientation of the power switch, because it was initially installed as "lower half is pressed when powered on", which is the most horrible thing one can ever do: of course, it must be "press up to power on, press down to power off". Other than this, no issues whatsoever. It just works and still delivers power just as expected.

[elektryk]

That's even funny that in my case T12 can stand longer than heaters separated from tips (ZD929, SL10) but those cheapo tips have some disadvantages, eg. BC4Z which has worse heat transfer than BCM2 or K with almost 10Ohm heater...

[dl6lr]

It heavily depends on the tip, some have a poor heater-body bond, so the thermocouple might read 350ºC while the solder is barely melting.

Well, I can only speak for KSGER K and BCM2 and BCM3. The latter two should deliver quite some power as they have a short and big tip. I only use it for light work now, as my Weller WTCP with 4PTBS7 delivers *WAY* more power into the solder point.
The K is even more disappointing as the solder does not stick to the blade, making it nearly impossible to transfer heat into the solder point.
The J02 works well as it is only for light soldering with its slim tip.

Performance between two same tips can be completely different, that's what you get for $3.

That way I better spend more money on tips with reliable performance.

BTW your tip will die soon after submerging it under water - I did so as my testing load when tuning the firmware PID, all tips died soon afterwards.
Also be realistic about the power delivery and the tip profile, JBC or not, a thin tip won't be able of putting 80W anywhere.

The tips survived and are still in use after two years.

[uli12us]

I own an aifen A9 since a bit more than a year. This part have the same performance like an original JBC BT-2BA station. It can use the 115, 210, 245 Irons, instead of the only 245 of the original JBC.
6 seconds to heating up to leadfree temperature with JBC or Aifen. But I don't have a soldering thermometer, so I can't compare the real temperature, overshot and similar effects with the JBC station.
The last year, the station do all, that I want with 3 different Irons, but merely the 245. For smaller parts, its good to have the option, to work with the 115 iron instead the much bigger 245.
The TO have the Aifen A9 pro in the wish list. I don't like it, the main difference is, there is a separate analog display of the heating power, instead the % value of the A9 without pro.
Imo, the analog display is completely useless. Instead of the watersponge, it have a metal brush as well, thats another deteil I don't like, instead I use a silicon sponge from a kitchen accessoire shop.

[GreyWoolfe]

I have a Metcal MX-500 II and a Hakko FX-951.  Got the Hakko first then got a stupid deal on the Metcal with wand, tweezers and stands afterward.  I use them both but favor the Metcal, it's a little more comfortable.   I only use Metcal or Thermaltronics tips and original Hakko tips and I have no drama.  I understand that sometimes cheap is what can be afforded but for me, the aggravation isn't worth the cost savings.  It is worth it to me to save up and buy OEM and get exactly what I want and the performance I expect.

[slavoy]

If you were buying a T12 or 210/245 today, which one would you recommend ?

It depends on what you need it for. For general use at home or for hobbies, T12 is a good choice. For professional daily use and precision microsoldering work, JBC is a better option (variety of tips). For hobbyists, the price difference does not translate to a significant performance difference. T12 is fully sufficient. Of course, if you can afford it, go for JBC. It is better made and the tips hold their shape. But it is more expensive. T12 tips are not precisely made, there are differences between the same tips. In JBC, each tip is perfectly compliant with the technical drawing

[shapirus]

For hobbyists, the price difference does not translate to a significant performance difference. T12 is fully sufficient.

Sometimes it isn't, but seldom: T12 may not deliver sufficient heating power for soldering some heavy, thermally inert stuff. Again, it doesn't happen very often. I've had no trouble soldering, for example, wires to 32700 cells with T12, and I mean doing it properly, in just a couple of seconds. Using big tips such as the hoof-style C08/C10/C15 helps too.

[elektryk]

T12 tips are not precisely made

Have you tried (genuine) T15 tips?

wires to 32700 cells with T12

There's no problem with soldering wires to li-ion cells with T12, in my opinion the worst are computer/notebook motherboards that require a lot of heat, especially when soldering THT connectors.

[shapirus]

wires to 32700 cells with T12

There's no problem to solder wires to li-ion cells with T12

Right, but I used this example to demonstrate one of applications which was next to impossible with my previous soldering station, which was a 50W indirect-heating 900M-compatible clone; whereas with T12 it's not a problem at all.
Direct heating makes a huge difference, and T12 delivers plenty of power, but it still may not be enough for certain uses.

in my opinion the worst are computer/notebook motherboards which need a lot of heat, especially when soldering THT connectors.

Yes, if that's a typical use case, then a higher power soldering station (and tips) will definitely be justified.

(De)soldering bigger transistor/triac heat sinks is another example.

I've not had to do any of these in a long time now, but it's interesting: next time I'll pay special attention to how realistic it is to do using T12 with a bigger tip.

[elektryk]

I've not had to do any of these in a long time now, but it's interesting: next time I'll pay special attention to how realistic it is to do using T12 with a bigger tip.

It should help with large pads but motherboards often have very small pads (tiny pad on one layer and power plane/polygon on that one which is not accesible with the tip), tight vias and RoHS solder, so sometimes even preheating is needed.
Last time I've tried solder paste with bismuth to desoldering job and it helped a lot to desolder USB A connector without destroying.

[GnomeZA]

Firstly I can't make a recommendation based on the all the tips you are asking about because I've only used T245, from your list, but I'm going to try provide a view anyway.

I was using a TS100 for a few years and in retrospect it is a terrible iron.
T245 was like angels descended from heaven, that is the difference between a good station and a low cost iron.

With that said, I'm running Aixun T420D (but I own T3A and it was the same experience) with the JBC C245939 cartridge knife.
I actually own about 6 original JBC tips (so I recommend this tip having tried others).
I also own a T115 hand piece and about 4 JBC original T115 cartridges.

But that cartridge knife tip is what changed my life.  That will make quick work of any high thermal soldering job.  You don't even need to go crazy on the temperatures.  At 350c lead free soldering will melt even on very difficult high thermal joints, it is shockingly good actually.

I pretty much use that thing by default now (but usually at 290c) and my T115 (also a cartidge knife but a really tiny one).
If I didn't have the T115, my second go to on the T245 is JBC C245041.

Between those two you can get everything done and I was able to actually soldering very small SMD components, it was just a LOT of work with the T245 vs the T115 now.
I never ran into anything I could not do with T245, using those two tips and time (I've barely used my other tips in comparison)
Disclaimer, I never soldered smaller than 0603 SMD (I have now with T115 but only because I had to)
Below 0603, I wish you luck with anything but T115 tbh (and even then I wish you luck, you need a VERY steady hand, hold your breath, imagine you are a sniper)

[bastler59]

And how much does the JBC 75W compare to the Aixun "200W"?  

I don't know any original JBC station, but for chinese manufactors data seems to be more fiction than reality!

My Aixun T320 takes 175 W from grid, when it has to heat up from standby for set temperature - in my case from 120 °C to 325 °C.  During soldering with a C245-755 tip on something that pulls out a lot of heat, it takes only 92 W. I don't see higher values. And I sampled those data 4times per second.

Before I tested a Yihua 982 and was suprised, that performance was poor. It is also a soldering station for C210 and C245, I liked the idea to change handle and have different power. But with same C245-755 tip and same soldering situation the Yihua station takes only 40 W from grid. On other side, this station has no problem with grounding.

My conclusion is, that you can't believe informations that chinese manufactors publish for their products! 

P.S.: I have to confess, that solder tip I used wasn't original JBC neither from Aixun. So it is possible, that only tips from Aixun may have a lower resistance and can produce 200 W from 24 V.  The shop where I bought solder station only offers C245-I, C245-S and C245-K. 

[slavoy]

it takes only 92 W.

Put the tip in a water tank and you will see full peak power. 92W for heavy soldering is a pretty good result. 

[GnomeZA]

And how much does the JBC 75W compare to the Aixun "200W"?  

I don't know any original JBC station, but for chinese manufactors data seems to be more fiction than reality!

The thing is, the power rating of a station is like the power rating of a DC power supply.
It is only relevant in so much as the maximum capable power.

Hopefully you wouldn't say "for chinese manufactors" every time a DC power supply claims 100w but you are connecting a 25w bulb to the supply and then seeing 25w?

P.S.: I have to confess, that solder tip I used wasn't original JBC neither from Aixun. So it is possible, that only tips from Aixun may have a lower resistance and can produce 200 W from 24 V.  The shop where I bought solder station only offers C245-I, C245-S and C245-K.

What are you attempting to test?

If you want to test the station output power, then wouldn't it make more sense to remove the cartridge out of the equation?
Use a load tester or something more suitable?

If you are attempting to test how much power your cartridge gets, I would argue your life would a be lot easier if you didn't treat the cartridge parameters as a hidden variable.
Meaning you know the actual resistive heater element's resistance and using that you can at least determine how the station is performing in relation to what is physically possible.

[litris]

Always the heater or internal connections, never got any chinese T12 for longer than 1 year with little use.
But acceptable for $3.

I have had a Yihua 937D ESD station for over 15 years and have never had to change the 907A handle, I bought another original Hakko 907A ESD handle and never took it out of the box.

But I am looking forward to enjoy the speed in heating up of a C245 and a T420 station but I read that the cartridges have a short life.

I have read this on many sites and this disappoints me if I will go worse.

I will still buy emergency spares but the peace of mind I have with my station looks like I won't have with this range of new soldering irons.

I always used JBC even the holders, any accessory, soldering iron etc was JBC but I discovered the world of Chinese stations and I saw an improvement and savings, I did not miss JBC.

But if they are going to die soon these stations or handles I may have to go back to the JBC although I am not going to use it professionally anymore as it is now just for hobby pcb design own and random repairs I don't need to spend much although I keep my other Fluke measuring equipment I could not use see a value on non Fluke measuring device I would have a hard time 😅

For less professional use would these T420 tips be ok and would I have to buy JBC? Any advice on other brands?

Thank you.