If you were buying a T12 or 210/245 today, which one would you recommend ?

[StueyB]

Bit of background,

Im a Mech Engineer so Electronics is not my area of expertise however I have got into it as a bit of a hobby by repairing some of my synthesizers at home.

I'm wanting to set myself up with a nice soldering iron and seperate hot air station. I've been using a Portasol Super 125 (dont laugh) as my iron which has been fine for through hole components but im wanting the ability to go down to 0805 / 2012 SMD components.

So i'm stuck deliberating the following stations:

Sugon T21 120w T115/T210/T245 + C470 compatability
Sugon T16 75w T12
Aifen A2 120w T115/T210/T245
Aifen A9 Pro 120w T115/T210/T245
Aixun T3A
Aixun T320 (the new model)

Im also thinking of going with the Hakko FX-888D or 951 (rip off price ATM though) for a bit more reiability.

I was set on getting a T3A or T3B but there seems to be a bit of drama with the T3A F/W & temp overshooting and grounding issue ?
The T320 looks attractive but its very new. This may not be a good thing.

As far as a hot air station goes I need to replace a 144-Pin LQFP DSP. I have a boatload of scrap boards for practice but would really appreciate pointers into getting set up with the right gear to make a good job (with practice) of changing this. I have access to a digital & analog microscope.

Any help to make an informed purchase would be greatly appreciated

Thanks all !

[thm_w]

For a large 144 pin LQFP, you might consider a preheater. But if the board is very large that may not be possible, photo might help. So something with good wattage combined with a large square tip.
Many existing threads to read: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hot-air-station-recommendations/

I think some here have ordered the T320 so you could wait for their review.
But given your presumably highish budget I would not bother with Hakko 888/951 or T12.

[ndarjo21]

Based on steve video, it seems soldering station with isolated supply / linear transformer is good way to go

[tony359]

I'm also looking for recommendation as I can't tolerate the grounding/overshooting/voltage leak of my T3A anymore.

I am not convinced that a linear power supply is the solution to all our problems though.

Is there a good brand station available which doesn't cost an arm and a leg? I am struggling to justify spending £500 for a JBC station!

[ndarjo21]

Hakko

[tony359]

The Hakko is about £100 cheaper than the JBC but I already have three JBC T245 tips - so I guess I might end up spending the same if I get a Hakko plus the tips I need.

Anything in the T245 world? Is the 245 a JBC product?

[ndarjo21]

There are bakon bk999/mechanic t360, there are mechanic prime/original clone of the mechanic prime(forget the name), yihua 982, gvm, team oss, ksger.

[tony359]

There are bakon bk999/mechanic t360, there are mechanic prime/original clone of the mechanic prime(forget the name), yihua 982, gvm, team oss, ksger.

Once again, you keep recommending brands you have no experience with.
Anybody can google the options, but what is the point in replacing a Chinese Clone with a Chinese Clone? I doubt that Yihua or Ksger managed to crack the circuitry and are issues-free! Unless you have direct experience with them of course.

[ndarjo21]

Buy jbc then

[tony359]

Again, do you own a JBC?

If not, I don't see the purpose of your comments. We are asking for recommendations. For a list of available products, there is Google.

[ndarjo21]

Good luck for your research mate

[tony359]

A question for JBC expert on this subject: I see many older CD models rated 75W appearing on ebay every now and then. Newer models are a bit more powerful, I believe 140W. My question is: numbers can be marketing and also we know that those stations seldom dump 100% of the rated power into the tips.

Is there an appreciable difference between an older 75W model and a newer 140W one? If those numbers are real, I guess a 140W one would get to set temperature faster but I somehow doubt it would make a difference when soldering even on a difficult join - maybe with a VERY large tip on a sheet of copper

And how much does the JBC 75W compare to the Aixun "200W"?

Thanks!

[hasbihal]

And how much does the JBC 75W compare to the Aixun "200W"?

Thanks!

As for 75W JBC vs 200W Aixun I can't help, but Steve has in almost every review video he made a coin test. For example Metcal 70W is almost as good /fast as the Aixun T3A / T420(D) with 200W.
If you are interested in an Aixun T420 (without D, but you can buy the second stand seperately later) PM me and I can tell you a vendor who sells it in EU for a reasonable price.

[tony359]

you must have missed my posts/video on the T3A - no way I'm going to buy another Aixun!

Yes, Steve is doing those comparisons but the Metcal is using a completely different technology and I don't think he ever tested the older JBC vs the new ones - anyways, I'd like to know more about some practical experience, what it means on some actual, daily usage.

[Arts]

I purchased a genuine JBC CD-1BE (now discontinued) around four years ago. I only use genuine JBC tips. Phenomenal performance, and bulletproof reliable. Tip life is also excellent, probably because I do not use them as chisels or pry-bars.

I have other high-powered stations that offer similar performance, but I prefer the JBC, despite it's lowly 75W: Hakko FM203-HD(140W) & Pace WJS100(120W)

If you have the budget, I highly recommend the JBC.  If you can't stretch to the JBC, I'd strongly suggest the Metcal PS-900, at about half the price. For a 60 watt station it's an incredible performer, and tips are dirt cheap.



 

[tony359]

Thank you.

Thanks for mentioning the Metcal, that is the one where the temperature regulation happens inside the tip because of its metallurgic properties. It must be amazing as it doesn't rely on sensors or anything. Still, a station without a fancy LCD and a temp reading feels "scary"!

I've watched a review and yes, it's impressive. No software, just an inductor and the tip self-regulates so there is no delays or algorithm in the way.

Small drawback, the handpiece+tip is a bit longer and chunky. But clearly a very good option.

I'll give it a few more days, let's see if I stumble into something I like, the PS-900 is definitely on my list! Thank you for your input!

[Arts]

Just for comparative purposes I gathered together a bunch of my handpieces to give you an idea of the sizes between different manufacturers and eras. I tried to place them so that all of the grip areas closest to the tips was aligned as best possible. I included a pic with just the JBC and the Metcal to give a better comparison. Frankly, unless you are doing microscopic-level work, even the huge Weller is still useable. They can all be had with any size/shape tip you can imagine [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

This is the order, from top to bottom (station used with is in brackets):
Pace TD-100 (WJS 100)
Hakko FM-2027 (FM-203)
JBC T245-A (CD-1BE)
Metcal PS-HC3 (PS-900)
Hakko FX-8801 (FX-888D)
Weller TC201 (WTCPS)

[Arts]

Oops, had pic problems;

[Arts]

And just the JBC and the Metcal;

[tony359]

Thank for taking the time to post the pics.

The Hakko is cool, I found this very old video with horrendously recorded voiceover which made me laugh!



I found a brand new, genuine, JBC CD-2BQF for £400 all included (no tips) and I am tempted. It's a bit more expensive than others but I have some tips already. The Metcal 900 is cute, though the handpiece is a bit chunkier. Other stations would be more or less in the £400 price tag, particularly when adding my 3 genuine JBC tips on the price of the station.

I like how the idea of "do I need a new soldering station" snowballed into a "I am buying a £400 JBC" However, I like the quick tip change too much to go back and I am using now the station for some work now and I do not want to risk anything when the Aixun gets haywire and the tip goes to 500C - not to mention the free voltage injection feature...

Yes, I could try a clone with a linear supply - but will it be ok? The T3A was also supposed to be ok and it's far from being ok.

[Arts]

I really like that station, and as you already have some genuine tips, you're ahead already. And the increased tip storage makes it more convenient than my model. I may be a bit jealous..
Also, if you want to work with really small SMD, you can pick up the compatible T210 precision handpiece and some C210 cartridges. It don't get much smaller, haha.
I would suggest getting the stainless steel cleaning wool (JBC CL6205) to replace the provided brass wool.

There are chinese clones of everything, and regardless of price and interweb jibber-jabber re how great they are, I can't be bothered. I'd would rather spend more on a quality product, support the people that put in the time and effort towards quality engineering and manufacturing, and be done with it the first time. As the old saying goes about spending the extra for quality, "Buy once, cry once"

[tony359]

Indeed I asked if the 210 handpiece was compatible and they confirmed it it. It might be helpful.

I agree with you about buying once and get something good quality. I try to do that whenever I can. I just thought a soldering iron was a simpler tool than it apparently is

I also tend to find hidden issues with things - I am just an inquisitive person and I tend to find bugs and issues more often than the average person does. So maybe it's a good idea. Still, £400 for a soldering iron is a lot

I guess I have another 24 hours to find a cheaper good alternative! Then I'll break the bank

Thanks so far for your input!

[Arts]

You are very welcome, and I'm glad to try to help!

If you think soldering irons are a difficult decision, you are entirely correct. Horses for courses and all that. And, the photos that I posted don't even include the older stations that have already left the herd; Edsyn, Hexacon etc. Soldering irons are relatively easy though, as they take up relatively little space, but oftentimes a fair amount of dosh. But beware, they are the thin end of the wedge...the gateway...

My Tektronix tube-era oscilloscope collection is a fine example of equipment addiction:

Cheers,
Art

[tony359]

I got the JBC.

Something inside me says it's overpriced - and I do feel it is. But... it works. No voltage leak, no temperature going all over the place. And when doing the "coin test", it performs as good or better than the Aixun which is supposed to be almost twice the power. Assuming my thermometer works, I had to offset the temp by 20C which was unexpected. But then everything works as expected. That weird feeling "it just works!"

The updater software was as bad as the Aixun's though. The station comes with a software which is newer than the one available online. I downloaded the updater anyways to check, the program found an update to the program itself at first install (?), it downloaded itself and installed it but failed to add a link to my Start Menu. Took me a while to find it! And then it said the station doesn't need an update!

I've got the inox wool thing as well, thanks!

One thing I liked of the Aixun was the separate stand, so the station could be kept on a shelf and the small holder on the workbench. Not the end of the world but...

I'll work on some actual PCBs soon and I might come up with a better feedback.

[thm_w]

And when doing the "coin test", it performs as good or better than the Aixun which is supposed to be almost twice the power. Assuming my thermometer works, I had to offset the temp by 20C which was unexpected. But then everything works as expected. That weird feeling "it just works!"

As I recommend here often:
- Plug the iron into a kill-a-watt or other energy measuring device.
- Do some regular every day soldering, do the coin test, see what power the station is drawing.
- Subtract power use at idle with the iron off. This will roughly be the amount of power going into the heater.

You'll see you rarely use more than ~20W for simple tasks. These high watt figures are not always relevant, and are rarely reached unless you stick the tip of the iron directly into cold water.

What thermometer did you use? If its a normal thermocouple you have to very carefully apply solder and make good contact. Its harder to do than a proper tip thermocouple, which has a flat surface: https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fg100b.html