is this even a calculator !

[Robomeds]

I agree with those who see such a calculator as pointless.  I don't think it's the smart phone that makes it pointless, it's Matlab+laptop.  Of course you can replace Matlab with any number of other math programs including Excel.  Basically the only thing I and most of the people I know (who are doing some complex math stuff) need from a calculator is run the few calculations that aren't worth putting into a program.  In that case easy to use is the key thing.  I moved from a IT-85 to a $20 Casio (that cost me $4) because the screen was easier to read.  I love the equation entry (and hate RPN) setup.  I really don't need much more than that.  The graphing part was always a bad joke to me.  It was bad when computers were too expensive to have in every class room.  It's even worse now.  If you need to graph it, do it on the computer.

[free_electron]

anyone know of similar apps for iphone or ipad ? that would be cool. ( not for school, i'm just interested for me)

[Alex Eisenhut]

Did you guys even read the page? It has 100-hour battery life, pretty advanced calculations (diff. calculus, etc.), fairly good screen resolution, and looks to have a pretty nice user interface. I don't see any cell phones with 100 hour battery life, although my TI-84 has operated for about two years so far on a single set of 3 AAAs. Now, I'm not about to buy one of these calculators but I think they fit in a certain market where students need something that's reliable, closed (no cheating/games) and isn't made by some idiot software developer. However, (see attachment) like the TI calculators people will always figure out how to run games on it. 

I also agree with the tactile button sentiment. I cannot do actual work on a glass touchscreen, so until somebody invents an ultrasonic tactile touchscreen (2019 or so, probably) the most calculating I'm going to be doing on a phone is with the built-in calculator.

fx-cp400s are also at $150 on eBay new, so they're actually cheaper than my TI-84 was when I bought it. Food for thought.

I'm curious why Alex Eisenhut is so angsty about the US student loan system, given he's Canadian. Thought socialism was supposed to solve all of those problems.

It's the same system, just a question of degree. Names of the guilty have been changed to protect the innocent, I guess.

As for 100 hour battery life, that's very useful if you're on the Command Module of Apollo 13.

I'm curious as to why you're so angsty about not having a power plug nearby?

[3roomlab]

looks like MS have a separate advance calculator call mathematics 4
https://www.youtube.com/results?q=mathematics+4+microsoft

[TMM]

My high school prescribed the Classpad 300 - was a total turd. I bought a TI89 and had less trouble teaching myself how to use the TI89 than others did trying to follow the prescribed textbook's Classpad examples.

I've still got the TI89 some 10 years later and use it almost every day 

I think they fit in a certain market where students need something that's reliable, closed (no cheating/games)

I dunno about the current colour calcs, but i'm pretty sure the Classpad 300 was closed at the time i had one and people had ported entire graphical games like Super Mario mere months after release.
The only saving grace (if any) was that you could not transfer files/games from calc to calc like you can on a TI8x and you had to jump through several hoops to even download the required PC software to connect with the calc so only geeks could work out how to do it.
Classpad 300 was horribly unreliable too. The software had so many bugs which would result in it locking up.

[Robomeds]

Does anyone actually use those advanced features after school or even in college?
Perhaps basic matrix algebra?  I was able to avoid buying a graphing calculator for my intro to EE class because my TI-68 could do complex simultaneous equations (ie I could solve AC resistor network problems).  The 68 was the first calculator I used with the in line entry of an equation vs RPN or the TI/Casio setup.  It really was nice just typing in one line and being able to double check it.  As for features and abilities I've never wanted more.  The ability to quickly and easily handle complex numbers was great for all the 2D vector stuff I did as an engineer.  The down side to the calculator was that the screen was just one line so you had to do a lot of scrolling.  The 68 was replaced after 7 years (original battery) when I cracked the screen.  The TI-85 replacement had all the ability but wasn't as easy to use.  I now use a Casio fx-300ES for most work.  It's not as powerful as the TI-68 but it does have a 2 line display which is nice for longer equations.  I really wish IT made something like an updated 68.  Then again, why would they.  Anymore most engineers only need very basic calculators and a PC.  That includes me.

[c4757p]

Does anyone actually use those advanced features after school or even in college?
Perhaps basic matrix algebra?
...
Anymore most engineers only need very basic calculators and a PC.  That includes me.

Well, despite not being a fan of these more advanced calculators myself, I must point out that using advanced features like that, and even further, advanced math itself, is more of a choice for most people. I'll happily whip out all sorts of equation-system-solving techniques, derivatives and integrals and partials and Laplace transforms and all that to solve problems that many people would have done in about the same amount of time with a brute-force method or just finding a different way, because I have those tools, I'm used to them, and I like them. I suppose the same can be said for graphing functions on calculators and whatnot, though I personally find them completely useless.

[Robomeds]

Don't get me wrong, I use the functions but as part of Matlab rather than on a calculator.  My thinking is anything that is complex enough to need those functions is something I will put into the computer instead of doing it on a calculator.  Since my computer is portable I don't see why I would bother with an overly fancy calculator any more.  I guess it's a bit like asking "why would you hand plot a graph when you can do it in Excel?"

[jlmoon]

My "fancy" calculator is a HP-67.  Still love that thing, hasn't let me down yet!
Oh forgot I have the M.E. / E.E.  slide pack too.  

[Stonent]

I'm taking a math class right now that had a recommended calculator of ti83 or 84. My wife still had hers from 13 years ago so I didn't have to buy one.

It calculates....

[Maxlor]

Well, here's a real life example of where I found my CAS calculator really useful. I was playing with some meteorological data from METAR broadcasts. They give you temperature and dewpoint there, but not humidity, which is what I want to display. But, there's a formula for converting between them:


(b and c are constants, b=17.67 and c=243.5°C)

I want RH isolated... good luck with that doing it on paper. Or Excel. Or on your phone. But it's easy to whack it into a CAS calculator and have it solve for you:

[gildasd]

I used to be of the Calculators are obsolete camp, but having gone back to uni, I've changed my mind.
I have "pocket CAS" on my iPhone and Diverse tools on my PC, but I just get more done on my TI Nspire (or the TI84 that preceded it).
I. Like that it's focused, capable, has buttons and a baterry life longer than I can survive without sleep.
Not a fan of the Classpad (totally locked system and it's work method is a bit choppy) but Casio's basic scientific models are great.

[TheEPROM9]

Sod using a phone, can't stand the things, only have one because I drive.

There are some really nice vintage ones out there and CASIO make some nice units still one of which got me though my under grad.

Plus just about all exams do not allow mobile phones as now more than ever can be used for good old cheating.

[IanB]

I want RH isolated... good luck with that doing it on paper. Or Excel. Or on your phone.

Well...I can do that in my head without much trouble. Does that count? 

[c4757p]

I want RH isolated... good luck with that doing it on paper. Or Excel. Or on your phone.

Well...I can do that in my head without much trouble. Does that count? 

Show-off.

[Stonent]

The other thing, they don't want you using your phone during a test because you can google stuff that you should have remembered.

[Robomeds]

Well, here's a real life example of where I found my CAS calculator really useful. I was playing with some meteorological data from METAR broadcasts. They give you temperature and dewpoint there, but not humidity, which is what I want to display. But, there's a formula for converting between them:


(b and c are constants, b=17.67 and c=243.5°C)

I want RH isolated... good luck with that doing it on paper. Or Excel. Or on your phone. But it's easy to whack it into a CAS calculator and have it solve for you:

This is exactly the sort of thing I would do with Matlab or Mathematica.  Thanks to this thread I'm curious if the MS Mathematics program can do it.  It appears that it could but I haven't really messed with it for more than a few minutes.  Other than a test when would you need this level of calculation without a computer at hand?

[IanB]

I want RH isolated... good luck with that doing it on paper. Or Excel. Or on your phone.

Well...I can do that in my head without much trouble. Does that count? 

Show-off.

It may seem so, but really doing such simple mental exercises is a way of keeping your brain sharp. If you start relying on machines to do mental exercises your brain will become weak, just the same as if you go by car everywhere instead of walking or cycling your legs will become weak.

Neither is it an obtuse or irrelevant thing. Being able to visualize symbols and juggle them around in your mind is related to being able to visualize more abstract concepts and relationships, which improves analytical and problem solving skills. You can look at a circuit schematic and visualize what it should do or even why it doesn't do what it is supposed to do without plodding laboriously through lots of design calculations.

[c4757p]

I was kidding around

[IanB]

I was kidding around

I know, but I was using your post as a peg to hang a reply on 

[miguelvp]

looks like MS have a separate advance calculator call mathematics 4
https://www.youtube.com/results?q=mathematics+4+microsoft

Cool!

[Maxlor]

Other than a test when would you need this level of calculation without a computer at hand?

Of course I had a computer at hand when doing it, just no symbolic math software for it. A HP Prime is a lot cheaper than any of Maple, Mathematica or Matlab with the syms toolbox. I've since learned that there is Maxima though, maybe I'll give it a try sometime.

[ivan747]

Well, I just purchased an HP Prime calculator, so I'm going to use it to full extent. Maxlor is right: software is expensive. These calculators now come with USB. It shouldn't be that hard to transfer stuff from and to the calculator. They have memory, spreadsheets, they are programmable. Sure, I cannot do a lot of heavylifting with them, but I surely appreciate a dedicated tool and the readiness of it.

[Stonent]

Funny I find it more useful many times to open up Excel when I need to calculate something with more than 2 or 3 parts.

[Marco]

Don't encourage them,  the designers of test equipment to me are using the ubiquity of iPhones and Androids to do the final display /processing and control interface.  When in 10yrs time no one will recall what an iPhone 4 looks like,  there is  going to be a lot of useless stuff.

If they do it with HTML it won't be a problem.