EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: mmbedded on March 22, 2019, 04:40:46 pm
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Hi everyone
This is my first post, so forgive me any mistakes :)
A few weeks ago I decided to buy soldering station, because my old one did not meet my expectations.
I have JBC CD-2E station at work, so I was looking something with removable and cheap tips, because that is important for me. I came across Jabe UD-1200 which I found on Aliexpress and it looks almost identical as JBC I have at work. It was 200 US$ delivered, so not particularly cheap but I decided to order it and check it out.
To my surprise, it turned out very well made. In box you find mains cable, handle, 3 tips, instruction, electrostatic discharge wire and station.
Unfortunately it has only Chinese menu and you can't change it, but to be honest it is not big deal, you can always use instruction and base on that figure out what particular position in menu means. LCD itself is not so bright and in JBC LCD looks much better, but it is not that important for me.
Tips also looks solid and good quality. Tips come very tight to handle and you need use a lot of force to remove it. You can buy Knoko C245 tips on aliexpress for 10$ which should be just fine as replacement.
As for the temperature of the tip, after pulling handle from station, it reaches it super very quickly, I think even faster then JBC. Accuracy is also very good, you can also adjust it in menu.
Inside of station also looks very good quality which you can se on attached fotos. Resistance from tip to earth wire is around 1 Ohm.
For me it turns out very good decision and I hope station will meet my expectations.
What is your opinion?
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HI
There also this one don,t let the T12 confuse you it is a JBC clone, only issue it says it is only 75W. Not tried it.
This site also sells the one above
https://www.vipprogrammer.com/leisto-t1211-lead-free-soldering-station-mobile-phone-soldering-iron-programmer-3102?zenid=4t3ubb1fkv6idtj2i1ummqslm1 (https://www.vipprogrammer.com/leisto-t1211-lead-free-soldering-station-mobile-phone-soldering-iron-programmer-3102?zenid=4t3ubb1fkv6idtj2i1ummqslm1)
Alan
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HI
Below is another one with options, can go to 200W
https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite (https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite)
Alan
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HI
Below is another one with options, can go to 200W
https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite (https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite)
Alan
Wow, and it is actually pretty cheap! - You need a PSU and solder iron besides, but you could make a pretty nice JBC station for around 150$ - Think I will try it next month!
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Thanks for posting. Have you tried with other tips like those from JBC?
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Yes, I tried it with JBC tips and works fine.
MM
Sent from phone using Tapatalk
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Wonder if they make a DD, DI base unit clone :-)
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Wonder if they make a DD, DI base unit clone :-)
Yes, The make a clone of JBC DI3000 , but for some reason their model name is DI36000.
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB14QEVXPvuK1Rjy0Faq6x2aVXai.jpg)
Last month I bought one of those DI dual clones (Youyue DI3600) and it's great. I use genuine JBC tips and it works just like a real JBC.
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If you search on Aliexpress for those stations, you can read reviews made by real buyers. One of them mentioned that (out of actual PRO's that you have JBC compatible station):
- included tips are utter crap
- transformer smells bad
- linear transformer requires quality AC mains
-firmware is in Chinese only and is locked up (STM32 protection level 1, might be reversed but I did not bother)
- cooler fan is noisy, buzzer is annoying
DI-3000 might be different (funny enough there was JBC station model DI3000), but there are no reviews to judge.
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Good to know, thanks. I'll stay clear then.
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I bought a Youyue 3600 (the same one I showed on previous post). The build quality, PCB assembly transformer and safety, all are acceptable and I'm happy with my unit. Yes, the included tips are garbage,
You have to buy genuine JBC tips to expect a true JBC performance.
Measuring its power consumption, shows 180W peak and 30-35W during normal soldering.
I changed plugs on the stands as well, so I can use T245 and T210 genuine handles. Other than changing the plugs, I have no complains and I'm very happy. Highly recommended.
edit: I even tried PA1200 tweezers on my clone unit and it worked flawlessly.
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Yes, I tried it with JBC tips and works fine.
Maybe you tried to connect a cartridge from jabe on the original JBC station?
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Yes, I tried it with JBC tips and works fine.
Maybe you tried to connect a cartridge from jabe on the original JBC station?
No, I don't try that. I have no access to JBC station now.
MM
Sent from phone using Tapatalk
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I ordered one of these today: https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite (https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite)
Just need to buy an original T245 and try it out - will report back when i get it :)
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HI
Below is another one with options, can go to 200W
https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite (https://www.team-ncrc.com/shop/product/soldering-station-jbc/?dil=en&utm_source=self&utm_medium=popup&utm_campaign=englishsite)
Alan
Note at the bottom of the page says "Only C245 type tips supported. Especially C210 series are NOT supported."
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Review from SDG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omS5Tqs_yq8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omS5Tqs_yq8)
The same but is branded "Best".
Looks like tips included are garbage (conical), but are fully JBC compatible. As stated above, lots of KNOKOO branded C245 tips on aliexpress which might be good.
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(https://i.gyazo.com/a719d8d835051e733dad2a40a6766271.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/69fc467da98f6f7f16ff68b8d1c55611.png)
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The Chinese JBC knock-offs are too much money. They aren't the same quality as JBC stations. They should all be under $100 US. Same with the KNOKOO DI3000 station and the Leisto T12-11. By asking over $200 US for these stations it gives some people the impression that it's a good value because they will work with some JBC tips. But it's all Chinese junk with no warranty. The performance may be close to the real thing. However, it's questionable. No certifications for safety etc. I wouldn't touch it for that price. And you still have to buy real JBC tips if you want it to actually work. And real tips are expensive.
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I think the price of welectron without taxes for Andorra is a better option for me
the station includes "incl.2 soldering tips (C245-906 1.2x0.7 mm and C245-907 2.2x1.0 mm)"
(https://i.gyazo.com/572d9f5a1e934b0a90ba9b4e8427cd39.png)
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Probably work better than a JBC (safety wise they are probably POS though, but I have GFCI). I just discovered a few weeks ago that my JBC Nano will not work with any boards connected to my test box (a PXI box, with all cards made by Keysight and FCC certified, chassis made by NI and FCC certified, and PSU made by SilverStone and FCC certified).
The EMI from my PXI box knocks out the thermocouple readout circuitry and the JBC reads maximum temperature it can interpret (650C) and stops heating.
Which means, I can't solder anything connected to my test box with a ground loop, including scope, USB and VNA, before disconnecting the test leads.
I'm working on a JBC Nano controller clone with higher EMI compatibility. Maybe also add in support for the 250W HDE (C470).
Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better. I guarantee none of the clones have been tested or certified for anything. You may try isolating your JBC nano station if you have a ground loop issue.
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the English version already exists
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33031757424.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.34603c006weB4l (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33031757424.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.34603c006weB4l)
Here you can see the display (sorry the video is in Spanish)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJRMmgJIlc&t=502s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJRMmgJIlc&t=502s)
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Regarding those JBC copies , is the temperature control sensor in the soldering tip itself ? (Weller tips have the sensor in the tips.) I also bought a JBC copy , looks like JBC working but the temperature control sensor is not in the tip , which is a problem.
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Regarding those JBC copies , is the temperature control sensor in the soldering tip itself ? (Weller tips have the sensor in the tips.) I also bought a JBC copy , looks like JBC working but the temperature control sensor is not in the tip , which is a problem.
You can always use genuine JBC tips. But I would think the way JBC precisely controls the temperature is the main reason for owning a JBC station. If the clone doesn't work the same, and it probably doesn't, then what's the purpose of having a clone? And the quick temperature ramp-up with JBC and clones is probably not good for tip life and thus needs to be controlled precisely. If that's not happening then you could be eating up tips faster. Who knows with the clones?
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I intend to make a better clone.
The clones I was referring to are the assembled units from China. BTW which circuit do you plan to use for your clone?
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I have a PhD in power electronics. Chances are, I will make something unique. Like a tiny inline adapter with 250w delivery capability.
Do you plan to share the design?
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The Chinese JBC knock-offs are too much money. They aren't the same quality as JBC stations. They should all be under $100 US. Same with the KNOKOO DI3000 station and the Leisto T12-11. By asking over $200 US for these stations it gives some people the impression that it's a good value because they will work with some JBC tips. But it's all Chinese junk with no warranty. The performance may be close to the real thing. However, it's questionable. No certifications for safety etc. I wouldn't touch it for that price. And you still have to buy real JBC tips if you want it to actually work. And real tips are expensive.
So do you have some evidence that clone tips do not work? Because I don't see any provided.
The price will come down once one of the manufacturers integrates a switching supply instead of that huge transformer. Anyway, if the product isn't for you, simply don't buy it. Warning others about the certification is a valid concern, but, we have seen numerous fuses and tip is earth grounded, more than one can say for Weller.
Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better.
Quality wise what specifically? You haven't provided a particular point that backs up your statement.
You can always use genuine JBC tips. But I would think the way JBC precisely controls the temperature is the main reason for owning a JBC station. If the clone doesn't work the same, and it probably doesn't, then what's the purpose of having a clone? And the quick temperature ramp-up with JBC and clones is probably not good for tip life and thus needs to be controlled precisely. If that's not happening then you could be eating up tips faster. Who knows with the clones?
The purpose of having the clone may be to be able to use JBC tips and handle style or power capability at a lower price.
If you watched the review, you will see JBC eats up tips fast as it is, if anything the clone tips might last longer with slightly worse thermal performance. Anyway, you can drop the power limit on both the original and clone stations so that would probably extend tip life somewhat.
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I don't understand why do you want to buy 'exact' clones/knockoff when you can buy the real thing? If you are talking about a compatible station I understand, I would totally support a compatible station that doesn't look alike trying to ripoff the real JBC. If you want it, buy the real thing, support the original company that made these happen. Without sales and funding they can never survive and make great products.
I wasn't very well off when I bought my first JBC station. The Hakko 936 served me well for more than 20 years until today, I still use along side JBC. When I first tried my JBC it doesn't justify the cost but it there was certainly a performance difference. I bought directly from JBC and shipping to Australia wasn't cheap and after all the currency conversion I have a lighter wallet but I know my money was given to the right company and people who worked to produce a professional level tool.
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I don't understand why do you want to buy 'exact' clones/knockoff when you can buy the real thing? If you are talking about a compatible station I understand, I would totally support a compatible station that doesn't look alike trying to ripoff the real JBC. If you want it, buy the real thing, support the original company that made these happen. Without sales and funding they can never survive and make great products.
I wasn't very well off when I bought my first JBC station. The Hakko 936 served me well for more than 20 years until today, I still use along side JBC. When I first tried my JBC it doesn't justify the cost but it there was certainly a performance difference. I bought directly from JBC and shipping to Australia wasn't cheap and after all the currency conversion I have a lighter wallet but I know my money was given to the right company and people who worked to produce a professional level tool.
$190 vs $600
Don't worry, they won't go out of business from a few hobbyists.
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Price does matter for us hobby nerds! And I understand the attraction of being able to work with JBC. Because I use one myself and I am very happy with it. There are alternatives, real JBC quality, the same power, safety and reliability and and a high quality 1.6 mm shizzle tip. Write them in english, and I am sure they are willing to serve customers in other EU countries. And really; there is nothing better than a high quality analogue station! No extra VAT or import taxes.
https://www.eleshop.nl/jbc-bt-2bwa-soldeerstation-140watt.html (https://www.eleshop.nl/jbc-bt-2bwa-soldeerstation-140watt.html)
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Does anyone have any experience with JBC CD-2SQE soldering station?
https://www.jbctools.com/cd-sq-precision-soldering-station-product-1580.html (https://www.jbctools.com/cd-sq-precision-soldering-station-product-1580.html)
Or compatible/similar?
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Does anyone have any experience with JBC CD-2SQE soldering station?
https://www.jbctools.com/cd-sq-precision-soldering-station-product-1580.html (https://www.jbctools.com/cd-sq-precision-soldering-station-product-1580.html)
Or compatible/similar?
Yes, it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's so much popular across the forum, the search gives you hundreds of topics and posts.
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And you still have to buy real JBC tips if you want it to actually work. And real tips are expensive.
Not really. I have Unisolder 5.2 controller and about ten tips (245 series) , some are genuine JBC and other are chinese clones. Have to note that not all chinese clones are of the same quality, mine come from Taobao supplier.
I have not noticed any difference in performance between original JBC and clones, the same was noted by someone else on this forum. China manufacturers do not make microspoon tips and HT alike tips, so for those I have original ones.
Price for the clone is below 8 USD.
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I have not noticed any difference in performance between original JBC and clones, the same was noted by someone else on this forum. China manufacturers do not make microspoon tips and HT alike tips, so for those I have original ones.
Price for the clone is below 8 USD.
What source do you buy clone tips from?
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The Chinese JBC knock-offs are too much money... By asking over $200 US for these stations it gives some people the impression that it's a good value
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
People must get the impression that real JBC is amazing.
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Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better.
Quality wise what specifically? You haven't provided a particular point that backs up your statement.
Well, who cares? Trashing chinese products is cool. Louis Rossman reviews a 951 clone side by side against his genuine 951. Testing, wut? Try to even power it on, wut? Nope. He throws shade for 40 minutes and never even tries to solder with it.
Edit: been a few years since I watched it. He did solder at least a connector or two with it, TBF. 3 minutes out of a 53 minute video.
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The Chinese can build to nearly whichever level of quality is requested. Basically, nearly everything of any quality is made in China.
Unfortunately, many companies in the West and elsewhere simply specify, "cheap as possible," so that's exactly what they get.
It's unfair to dump on the Chinese for low quality. They are simply doing exactly what they are asked, and they seem to do it better than anyone else seems able to do.
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Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better.
Quality wise what specifically? You haven't provided a particular point that backs up your statement.
Well, who cares? Trashing chinese products is cool. Louis Rossman reviews a 951 clone side by side against his genuine 951. Testing, wut? Try to even power it on, wut? Nope. He throws shade for 40 minutes and never even tries to solder with it.
Edit: been a few years since I watched it. He did solder at least a connector or two with it, TBF. 3 minutes out of a 53 minute video.
The 951 interface is stupid at best even on the genuine item. The whining about the clones is just petty. I have two of them and swapped them out for KSGER's with a much more usable interface, customization and proper setback ;)
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The 951 interface is stupid at best even on the genuine item. The whining about the clones is just petty. I have two of them and swapped them out for KSGER's with a much more usable interface, customization and proper setback ;)
I'm not doubting the problems with the Hakko FX-951 because they seem blatantly obvious to me. But perception of quality and true value changes with experience.
They have been shipping KSGERs with a potentially dangerous smps design flaw and the enclosure should probably be grounded/earthed for standards compliance and safety. In fact none of these are compliant anywhere in the "western" world anyway.
Then there is the battery flaw and that it comes with no stand (hidden costs). It's still really kind of "cheap" feel station, aside from at least having a metal case. But then those cases are a few dollars in China anyway. The enclosure size and weight and lack of a real transformer in the product (likely makes shipping more viable) though some might like it, if you ever owned a traditional sized station (substantially more in materials) you can see why they are selling them for so cheap. Oled displays, some people hate em.
Then there is the ethical aspect about the counterfeit origins of these products (that still exists). The larger picture of Chinese products and subsidized freight undermining local economy and postal services.
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The 951 interface is stupid at best even on the genuine item. The whining about the clones is just petty. I have two of them and swapped them out for KSGER's with a much more usable interface, customization and proper setback ;)
I'm not doubting the problems with the Hakko FX-951 because they seem blatantly obvious to me. But perception of quality and true value changes with experience.
They have been shipping KSGERs with a potentially dangerous smps design flaw and the enclosure should probably be grounded/earthed for standards compliance and safety. In fact none of these are compliant anywhere in the "western" world anyway.
Then there is the battery flaw and that it comes with no stand (hidden costs). It's still really kind of "cheap" feel station, aside from at least having a metal case. But then those cases are a few dollars in China anyway. The enclosure size and weight and lack of a real transformer in the product (likely makes shipping more viable) though some might like it, if you ever owned a traditional sized station (substantially more in materials) you can see why they are selling them for so cheap. Oled displays, some people hate em.
Then there is the ethical aspect about the counterfeit origins of these products (that still exists). The larger picture of Chinese products and subsidized freight undermining local economy and postal services.
Then the PACE ADS200 maybe the way to go for a serious setup without busting the bank on tips which seem to be way over the top for the JBC. I have had a Pace PS/90 with PPS15 station for years and I still use it today ;) Thick barrel and tips really deliver the heat as good as the JBC and Hakko. In comparison what is the ADS200 like ? Interested in your experience with this new iron and tips which seem to be really good value and very reasonable ?
cheers
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I just got a Pace ADS200 a couple weeks ago so I haven't used it much. But so far so good. I would stick to Dave's recommendation and use Ultra Performance tips with the extra thermal mass unless you're doing fine work. The iron is smaller than I thought it would be. So the extra mass is no big deal and doesn't get in my way.
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In comparison what is the ADS200 like? Interested in your experience with this new iron and tips which seem to be really good value and very reasonable?
The PS90 for the PPS15 was the Sensatemp series, Pace later brought out the Intelliheat series which in addition to the PS90 supported the TD100 handpiece among other new tools.
For me the Pace ADS200 which is the start of the new Accudrive series is currently the best temp adjustable station and handpiece out there. Powerful (120W). Fast heating (3-4 seconds on the smallest tip). Accurate (single digit temp with no calibration required). Robust (all metal design). Simple to operate (no menus just up/down/preset button). Ergonomic (slim aluminum "cool touch" iron). Versatile (takes tiny smd and huge rework tips). Effortless tip swapping (under 5 seconds for a complete swap over). Cheap to run (low cost high quality tips).
I've been using the stations for over a year now and really happy with it. It has everything a modern station should (sleep, stand sleep, auto off, temp alerts, config lockout). Aaron from Pace a few days back showed the new 60W/60W tweezers coming out for the ADS200. Pretty cool considering most stations are about 60-70W.
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In comparison what is the ADS200 like? Interested in your experience with this new iron and tips which seem to be really good value and very reasonable?
The PS90 for the PPS15 was the Sensatemp series, Pace later brought out the Intelliheat series which in addition to the PS90 supported the TD100 handpiece among other new tools.
For me the Pace ADS200 which is the start of the new Accudrive series is currently the best temp adjustable station and handpiece out there. Powerful (120W). Fast heating (3-4 seconds on the smallest tip). Accurate (single digit temp with no calibration required). Robust (all metal design). Simple to operate (no menus just up/down/preset button). Ergonomic (slim aluminum "cool touch" iron). Versatile (takes tiny smd and huge rework tips). Effortless tip swapping (under 5 seconds for a complete swap over). Cheap to run (low cost high quality tips).
I've been using the stations for over a year now and really happy with it. It has everything a modern station should (sleep, stand sleep, auto off, temp alerts, config lockout). Aaron from Pace a few days back showed the new 60W/60W tweezers coming out for the ADS200. Pretty cool considering most stations are about 60-70W.
Who did you buy it from ?
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Order from Mektronics is the cheapest, not sure of their stock levels. As far as I'm aware it's them or Element 14 here. See if they will do you a good price, I always ask if it's not a trivial purchase. If you are interested, the model you want is the "instant setback" version it comes with the cable for stand detection. You can always remove the cable later if you don't use it.
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I've been using the stations for over a year now and really happy with it. It has everything a modern station should (sleep, stand sleep, auto off, temp alerts, config lockout). Aaron from Pace a few days back showed the new 60W/60W tweezers coming out for the ADS200. Pretty cool considering most stations are about 60-70W.
Looks like a huge improvement over what is shown here: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers (https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers)
Won't be cheap though.
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Order from Mektronics is the cheapest, not sure of their stock levels. As far as I'm aware it's them or Element 14 here. See if they will do you a good price, I always ask if it's not a trivial purchase. If you are interested, the model you want is the "instant setback" version it comes with the cable for stand detection. You can always remove the cable later if you don't use it.
https://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0581/soldering-station-with-isb-tool/dp/2893441?st=PACE%20ADS200 (https://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0581/soldering-station-with-isb-tool/dp/2893441?st=PACE%20ADS200)
https://www.mektronics.com.au/soldering-rework/pace-stations/pace-ads200-station-with-standard-tool-stand.html (https://www.mektronics.com.au/soldering-rework/pace-stations/pace-ads200-station-with-standard-tool-stand.html)
BTW have you measured the tip temperatures of various tips to see how much tolerance there is in the specified temperatures ?
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BTW have you measured the tip temperatures of various tips to see how much tolerance there is in the specified temperatures ?
Yeah I have, the station regulates better than my tip thermometer so I gave up after doing half a dozen tips. They are using k type thermocouples to get degree accuracy and also some secret sauce in the station. The heating profile is fairly passive and the curve tends to undershoot to temp as best as I can tell, which is impressive given the stations heating speed.
Mbless has drawn out the schematic and made replacement controller it's not as tight regulation though so he suspects they might use the 18-bit ADC on the PCB to profile which tip is being used. I get the impression from Paces manufacturing history and reading up on some of the previous series and patents that they have manufacturing tolerances and precision measurement down to a fine art.
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Undershoot seems to be the natural side effect of having heater and sensor tightly thermally coupled. This is the behavior I notice with my T12 clones, too.
There has to be some electrical insulation between heater and the copper in the tip. In a T12 tip, the heater is powered by the thermocouple, so that connection must be solid. so when the power is interrupted to take a reading, the thermocouple is affected by the recent, direct heating of the sensor. Not only this causes a more gradual ramp to set temp, but if the tip is under load, this creates more differential between set temp and tip temp; at least this is what I reckon causes the worse performance in this regard with my clones. There is "slop in the lead screw." When the tip is under no load, that slop eventually near-disappears. When the tip is under load and higher duty cycle, that slop grows. I am curious how well this can be negated by software, but I suspect it cant be corrected fully, without some compromises.
JBC could be made differently. They have separate circuits for thermocouple and heater, but they are probably more similar in this regard than different.
In the classic 936, the sensor can be insulated fairly well from the heater and coupled much better to the tip, relatively (though not as closely fitted to the copper, this is overcome by surface area). It is actually superior for temp control in this way. The sensor measures almost purely actual tip temp whether the heater is on or off. At least I assume the sensor in a 936 is intentionally insulated from the heater. That is how I would think to do it. I have never taken one apart.
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Undershoot seems to be the natural side effect of having heater and sensor tightly thermally coupled. This is the behavior I notice with my T12 clones, too.
I meant it heats up undershooting into idle tip temp rather than overshoot and settle back, more to do with heating profile than anything. I've scoped it out of curiosity a while back but no plans to get too carried away, it's powered from unbuffered dc and it pulses/heats for as short as 8-10ms/120Hz to maintain regulation.
It's quicker and better regulated than any T12 based station I've seen so far. This Pace cart design is like 15 years? old now (aside from the changes they made to the ADS200 version of it) the old series is really quick as well.
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It's quicker and better regulated than any T12 based station I've seen so far. This Pace cart design is like 15 years? old now (aside from the changes they made to the ADS200 version of it) the old series is really quick as well.
I assume it's also better than a genuine FX-951?
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I assume it's also better than a genuine FX-951?
Two videos I've seen show the FX-951 with a genuine fine tip taking 17 seconds from room temp to 350C so that's the slowest of the T12 bunch. If you mean the old Pace Intelliheat series with the TD100/TD100A handpiece it can do 7-8 seconds from room temp to 350C on a fairly fine tip.
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Back to the topic: How does clone JBC tips perform in both terms of longevity and heat transfer? Please share your experiences.
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Back to the topic: How does clone JBC tips perform in both terms of longevity and heat transfer? Please share your experiences.
- included tips are utter crap
- transformer smells bad
- linear transformer requires quality AC mains
- firmware is in Chinese only and is locked up (STM32 protection level 1, might be reversed but I did not bother)
- cooler fan is noisy, buzzer is annoying
I've read other comments from independent sources that it kills genuine tips as well so you are advised to lower the power setting.
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Two videos I've seen show the FX-951 with a genuine fine tip taking 17 seconds from room temp to 350C so that's the slowest of the T12 bunch. If you mean the old Pace Intelliheat series with the TD100/TD100A handpiece it can do 7-8 seconds from room temp to 350C on a fairly fine tip.
I think at this point in time, anything that heats in under 20 seconds with a reasonably responsive PID loop will work fine. I've gotten by with far worse performance for the past 40 years. Granted I usually work on PTP wiring and older though hole PCBs. Thus, reliability that comes with a good brand name unit is more important to me than the last 1/4 second of thermal performance or ability to do soldering one degree over the melting point. I can always turn up the heat a bit. I'm used to reaching for the knob on the old Weller.
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Has anyone had any issues on the KSGER with temp set high at say 380 degrees where the tip temperature display jumps around quite a bit ? Doesn't seem to always do it and doesn't do it at the lower temperature settings ?? Thought it might have been a case that the power was being maxed out but the power setting is well within the maximum and also seems to become stable when set in the tip calibration mode. Could be a firmware issue ?
cheers
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Has anyone had any issues on the KSGER with temp set high at say 380 degrees where the tip temperature display jumps around quite a bit ? Doesn't seem to always do it and doesn't do it at the lower temperature settings ?? Thought it might have been a case that the power was being maxed out but the power setting is well within the maximum and also seems to become stable when set in the tip calibration mode. Could be a firmware issue ?
cheers
Not sure what KSGER has to do with the JABE UD-1200. Similar issues discussed before here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/new-diy-stc-t12-soldering-station-works-but-got-a-small-issue/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/new-diy-stc-t12-soldering-station-works-but-got-a-small-issue/)
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Sorry for bumping this thread, but I resent the comments that the included tips are of poor quality. Maybe just not the tips one would expect to get bundled with a station, but you have to remember this was a station that was meant for the Asian market only and then eventually got an english firmware made later as more and more people outside Asia bought them. They are really popular in south america it seems with people who do phone repairs, and they all say the tips are great.
As someone who learned to solder with a conical tip, and used one much more frequently than a chisel tip for the majority of my hobby electronics time spent soldering, I don't think at all that the tips included are of poor quality, and this is coming from someone who's been using a Pace ADS200 almost daily for a long time now.
Case in point: the knife tip, which I've already ordered a backup of. The knife tip is amazing but you have to give yourself a chance to get to know it. Maybe if you are of the opinion that the world begins and ends with chisel tips, you can knock the output power down and use real JBC tips. However, i did one tiny TH PCB with the knife tip alone, to let myself get to learn it. I did 40 pin headers, 2 resistors and a couple wires. I had a little trouble when i was just starting where i could not get the solder to flow.
If this is where you stop and say "it's the tip's fault!" you are wrong. It took me 40 pin headers to learn how to use the knife tip correctly, and when I tried it on a more complex PCB later, i was banging out TH solder joints of very good quality faster than I ever had even with my Pace and its chisel tip. Plus, you can turn the knife tip around and use it as a sharp pointy tip to get narrow spaces and awkward locations. Each time i got an exemplary solder joint faster than I even thought possible. Each build worked perfect. So yes I think the included tips are very good and the only thing I can not speak to is their longevity versus JBC tips.
Personally i like conical tips a lot too for fine TH work and my only complaint is that the included tip is super fine, so it's good for phone work or repair on SMT, but they don't include the bigger / shorter conical tip, that one you have to buy by itself.
I never used a bent conical tip in my life, and that will probably sit...
I don't have any real JBC tips yet and will update on them later but from what I understand after watching all the Youtube videos on these, is that as long as you knock the power down to something like 70-80 watts then it will be fine (i have just bought a pair of chisel tips and another knife, and they are in the mail, now that i know i like the station, and try on 70w and work up if needed)
jabe doesn't even offer a chisel tip. Just the 4 tips, though you get 3 with your order of the station. I think if jbc tips are no problem at a lower wattage, just get those if you want.
The form factor of it is more ideal than the Pace by a long shot for small and cramped work spaces. In my tiny apartment I have a tiny work desk set up I do all my work on and that is part of why the ADS200 is going to likely going to live at my work space when i open it back up and keep the Jabe at home.
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I've been using legitimate JBC tips at 70W since my last post without any issues whatsoever. I got a C245-011 and a 741. No issues and plenty of power at 70w. Works great!
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hello, thanks for the jabe ud-1200 article, great job. I have a technical question, I will buy this station and I do not have a white optocoupler marked a7840 visible in the photo of the board in the upper left corner. I have one and I want to solder it. In such a case there are no connected paths managed by this optocoupler. Maybe some little info what he gives in this station, because the station works without it. Thank you for helping Luk
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hello, thanks for the jabe ud-1200 article, great job. I have a technical question, I will buy this station and I do not have a white optocoupler marked a7840 visible in the photo of the board in the upper left corner. I have one and I want to solder it. In such a case there are no connected paths managed by this optocoupler. Maybe some little info what he gives in this station, because the station works without it. Thank you for helping Luk
It was probably removed to save cost. If you go to Youtube and search for reviews of the Best BST-933B, there was one I found (can't remember the name of the Youtuber) that showed a quick teardown and the optocoupler you are asking about was not on the board in that video. The Equalizor's video clearly shows it in his Jabe, but it was absent in the Best. Not sure which video came first. If the station works well without it, I would not worry about it, its probably left off the board because they don't use it.
I can't remember if it was asked in this thread or not, but the big let down to some about these JBC clones is that they cannot use the C210 handle. Equalizor showed in another of his videos that "Pin 6" is not soldered in and that is apparently what JBC uses to determine if the handle plugged in is a C245 (receiver for Pin 6 is not populated) or a C210 (receiver for Pin 6 is populated).
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HI
There also this one don,t let the T12 confuse you it is a JBC clone, only issue it says it is only 75W. Not tried it.
This site also sells the one above
https://www.vipprogrammer.com/leisto-t1211-lead-free-soldering-station-mobile-phone-soldering-iron-programmer-3102?zenid=4t3ubb1fkv6idtj2i1ummqslm1 (https://www.vipprogrammer.com/leisto-t1211-lead-free-soldering-station-mobile-phone-soldering-iron-programmer-3102?zenid=4t3ubb1fkv6idtj2i1ummqslm1)
Alan
I was watching some Youtube videos on these clones and came across one for this station. This station is a "clone" for JBC, but it is only compatible with the C210 handle. Between this and the Jabe/Best units you would have a "full" JBC clone capable of using both handles (C245 and C210) but then that means having two units and in the end, is there any savings at that point? Perhaps someone has modd'ed a Jabe/Best for use with a C210 handle, just not something I came across.
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Wonder if they make a DD, DI base unit clone :-)
Yes, The make a clone of JBC DI3000 , but for some reason their model name is DI36000.
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB14QEVXPvuK1Rjy0Faq6x2aVXai.jpg)
Last month I bought one of those DI dual clones (Youyue DI3600) and it's great. I use genuine JBC tips and it works just like a real JBC.
Can you help me out,I am very interested in getting the Youyue 3600 which is the same,can you please give me some feedback since you've now had that station a long time? I am going to get it for about 200$ usd ' wanted to ask you if it lets you adjust the temperature separately,can you use a iron in each hand & do you think its better than the pac ads200,t12 krsger?
& Lastly whether the tips wear out quickly & how useful is it to have a dual station as opposed to single station. Thanks for your help in advance
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HI
There also this one don,t let the T12 confuse you it is a JBC clone, only issue it says it is only 75W. Not tried it.
This site also sells the one above
https://www.vipprogrammer.com/leisto-t1211-lead-free-soldering-station-mobile-phone-soldering-iron-programmer-3102?zenid=4t3ubb1fkv6idtj2i1ummqslm1 (https://www.vipprogrammer.com/leisto-t1211-lead-free-soldering-station-mobile-phone-soldering-iron-programmer-3102?zenid=4t3ubb1fkv6idtj2i1ummqslm1)
Alan
I was watching some Youtube videos on these clones and came across one for this station. This station is a "clone" for JBC, but it is only compatible with the C210 handle. Between this and the Jabe/Best units you would have a "full" JBC clone capable of using both handles (C245 and C210) but then that means having two units and in the end, is there any savings at that point? Perhaps someone has modd'ed a Jabe/Best for use with a C210 handle, just not something I came across.
I've been researching the youyue 3600 & apparently this is the only clone station that accepts the tweezer attachment,the 210 handle,the 245 handle & even the gun handle,I just wish someone would give me some input into what I should get,this station or the ads200 or the t12 ksger,I have been trying to figure out whether the dual handle stations are even useful & whether tweezers are useful as opposed to just buying a ksger hot air station? ?
If anyone reading this can chime in that'd be a great help.
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Hi,
I can't comment on the other choices, but JBC stuff is very nice. If you plan to do a lot smd work/rework, i would strongly recommend to at least have an option to add them. I work with JBC station at work (the DI3000, one youyue is based on), with PA120 tweezers. We are in process of upgrading to AM120 tweezers. I use the tweezers a lot. There is also a pedal option for the tweezers, which seems very nice - i do not have personal experience yet though.
I'm in a similar situation as you, in a sense that I'm considering the dual channel youyue as well, as I'd like to upgrade my home lab to JBC as well.
I do not have experience with Pace, Hakko, or the other soldering station you are considering. I have used stuff from ersa, metcal, weller. I like the JBC stuff better than the others. MMW.
Personally I'm deciding between youyue, lowend jbc model(BT-2BWA) which can be had for 190eur ex.vat, or to build one of the diy controllers. ebay hunt was not fruitfull for me so far.
As you have looked into the youyue quite a bit, could you please share with me where did you found the lowest price? Thank you
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Hi,
I can't comment on the other choices, but JBC stuff is very nice. If you plan to do a lot smd work/rework, i would strongly recommend to at least have an option to add them. I work with JBC station at work (the DI3000, one youyue is based on), with PA120 tweezers. We are in process of upgrading to AM120 tweezers. I use the tweezers a lot. There is also a pedal option for the tweezers, which seems very nice - i do not have personal experience yet though.
I'm in a similar situation as you, in a sense that I'm considering the dual channel youyue as well, as I'd like to upgrade my home lab to JBC as well.
I do not have experience with Pace, Hakko, or the other soldering station you are considering. I have used stuff from ersa, metcal, weller. I like the JBC stuff better than the others. MMW.
Personally I'm deciding between youyue, lowend jbc model(BT-2BWA) which can be had for 190eur ex.vat, or to build one of the diy controllers. ebay hunt was not fruitfull for me so far.
As you have looked into the youyue quite a bit, could you please share with me where did you found the lowest price? Thank you
I just found this am amazed at the price:it looks to be the Jbc 245 version of the usual ksgers & accepts jbc tips,it actually looks pretty good imo but I haven't seen anything about it yet in reviews or anything.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633176163.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.56c72e0exOf1vr (https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633176163.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.56c72e0exOf1vr)
Heres the link for the absolute best deal I found on YouYue 3600 that actually ships from the USA to the Usa,but the problem is that if you're in the Philippines you're probably better off shipping directly from China & you might be better off finding whether they ship to you & if you can get it shipped to you for around 230$ total then it'll be a good deal because thats the lowest price I found that ships to me in the Usa.(you'll have to enter your address to see which one comes out the least)
https://usa-m.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Soldering-Station-Irons-with-Double-Channel-Handle-3-Second-Heating-Up-Adjustable-Temperature-for-Mobile-Phone-Repair-wp-Usa-1605637.html?rmmds=search&act_poa=SKUD79541&cur_warehouse=USA (https://usa-m.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Soldering-Station-Irons-with-Double-Channel-Handle-3-Second-Heating-Up-Adjustable-Temperature-for-Mobile-Phone-Repair-wp-Usa-1605637.html?rmmds=search&act_poa=SKUD79541&cur_warehouse=USA)
I checked on this ebay listing & it seems that its far more expensive shipping to Philippines. (I did a mock shipping quote & it says itll be like an extra $80 than to the USA) so you're just going to have to shop around because of where you live,many places will be far more for you than if you lived in USA.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Head-Soldering-Iron-Thermostatic-Soldering-Station-For-Phone/254449244719 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Head-Soldering-Iron-Thermostatic-Soldering-Station-For-Phone/254449244719)
Heres another store that sells it but I'm not sure whether to trust them nor if its cheaper.
https://www.vipprogrammer.com/youyue-3600-dual-head-soldering-iron-thermostatic-soldering-station-programmer-5769?zenid=r084ev3smetvkkgu0qu810r562 (https://www.vipprogrammer.com/youyue-3600-dual-head-soldering-iron-thermostatic-soldering-station-programmer-5769?zenid=r084ev3smetvkkgu0qu810r562)
Tell me what you think of the 1st station I sent you the link for,its a Jbc 245 clone for much cheaper although it only has 1 handle & I'm not sure whether it supports all Jbc handles,the youyue DOES support all Jbc handles,& attachments,it supports the: 210,245,& the Jbc tweezers & the Jbc gun .
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I would never spend $200 for a clone. The only reason it's $200 is because it looks like JBC. The quality probably still sucks.
The first one is priced more like it should be but only if it works well. I wonder how good the tips are? Because Genuine JBC tips are expensive if they're even compatible with that thing?
If Genuine tips are necessary, I would get a KSGER T12 because T12 tips are cheaper.
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Hi,
I can't comment on the other choices, but JBC stuff is very nice. If you plan to do a lot smd work/rework, i would strongly recommend to at least have an option to add them. I work with JBC station at work (the DI3000, one youyue is based on), with PA120 tweezers. We are in process of upgrading to AM120 tweezers. I use the tweezers a lot. There is also a pedal option for the tweezers, which seems very nice - i do not have personal experience yet though.
I'm in a similar situation as you, in a sense that I'm considering the dual channel youyue as well, as I'd like to upgrade my home lab to JBC as well.
I do not have experience with Pace, Hakko, or the other soldering station you are considering. I have used stuff from ersa, metcal, weller. I like the JBC stuff better than the others. MMW.
Personally I'm deciding between youyue, lowend jbc model(BT-2BWA) which can be had for 190eur ex.vat, or to build one of the diy controllers. ebay hunt was not fruitfull for me so far.
As you have looked into the youyue quite a bit, could you please share with me where did you found the lowest price? Thank you
I just found this am amazed at the price:it looks to be the Jbc 245 version of the usual ksgers & accepts jbc tips,it actually looks pretty good imo but I haven't seen anything about it yet in reviews or anything.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633176163.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.56c72e0exOf1vr (https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633176163.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.56c72e0exOf1vr)
Heres the link for the absolute best deal I found on YouYue 3600 that actually ships from the USA to the Usa,but the problem is that if you're in the Philippines you're probably better off shipping directly from China & you might be better off finding whether they ship to you & if you can get it shipped to you for around 230$ total then it'll be a good deal because thats the lowest price I found that ships to me in the Usa.(you'll have to enter your address to see which one comes out the least)
https://usa-m.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Soldering-Station-Irons-with-Double-Channel-Handle-3-Second-Heating-Up-Adjustable-Temperature-for-Mobile-Phone-Repair-wp-Usa-1605637.html?rmmds=search&act_poa=SKUD79541&cur_warehouse=USA (https://usa-m.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Soldering-Station-Irons-with-Double-Channel-Handle-3-Second-Heating-Up-Adjustable-Temperature-for-Mobile-Phone-Repair-wp-Usa-1605637.html?rmmds=search&act_poa=SKUD79541&cur_warehouse=USA)
I checked on this ebay listing & it seems that its far more expensive shipping to Philippines. (I did a mock shipping quote & it says itll be like an extra $80 than to the USA) so you're just going to have to shop around because of where you live,many places will be far more for you than if you lived in USA.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Head-Soldering-Iron-Thermostatic-Soldering-Station-For-Phone/254449244719 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOUYUE-3600-Dual-Head-Soldering-Iron-Thermostatic-Soldering-Station-For-Phone/254449244719)
Heres another store that sells it but I'm not sure whether to trust them nor if its cheaper.
https://www.vipprogrammer.com/youyue-3600-dual-head-soldering-iron-thermostatic-soldering-station-programmer-5769?zenid=r084ev3smetvkkgu0qu810r562 (https://www.vipprogrammer.com/youyue-3600-dual-head-soldering-iron-thermostatic-soldering-station-programmer-5769?zenid=r084ev3smetvkkgu0qu810r562)
Tell me what you think of the 1st station I sent you the link for,its a Jbc 245 clone for much cheaper although it only has 1 handle & I'm not sure whether it supports all Jbc handles,the youyue DOES support all Jbc handles,& attachments,it supports the: 210,245,& the Jbc tweezers & the Jbc gun .
I can't answer your questions, but I believe that the first station you link to, the Handskit station likely uses the board below:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694683205.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.63aa2e0eBgaGYl (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694683205.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.63aa2e0eBgaGYl)
IF they do, then the board will support a JBC245 and JBC210 handle, not at the same time though because in order to use a 210 handle, you would need to have a separate 12V power supply or if you can find one, a power supply that can put out both 24V or 12V and then you'd need to be able to switch between the power supplies, since I suspect they use a similar power supply as the KSGER T12 (and other T12 based on that form factor) stations, which only puts out 24V. But that is a big *IF* on whether they use that same board since I don't have one to confirm. Also, I doubt it supports more than the 245 and possibly the 210 (assuming it does), I suspect it will not support the tweezers, but that is purely speculation on my part.
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I would never spend $200 for a clone. The only reason it's $200 is because it looks like JBC. The quality probably still sucks.
The first one is priced more like it should be but only if it works well. I wonder how good the tips are? Because Genuine JBC tips are expensive if they're even compatible with that thing?
If Genuine tips are necessary, I would get a KSGER T12 because T12 tips are cheaper.
Actually, the Youtube reviews of these stations seem to be positive on them, at least the early clones. The downside with those early clones is that they only have support for one handle, either you get a $200 clone that supports JBC245 tips or you get a $200 clone that supports JBC210 tips. Which if you *need* to be able to use both tips, you'd be spending the same money on clones to get that capability as you would on a real JBC. Looks like they recently have added the ability to support both tips in the same unit, if they maintained the same level of quality, then $200 may not be too bad for a serious hobbiest.
As an occasional solderer, I did get a KSGER T12 and it does what I need it to do very well and the cheapo clone tips that seem pretty good for my use, is another plus. One of the shortcomings of the clone soldering stations is that there were not many clone tips available, so you'd still spend a lot on tips because you were stuck buying genuine JBC tips, now I see they are expanding the number of clone tips available as the number of clone JBC's are expanding.
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I can't answer your questions, but I believe that the first station you link to, the Handskit station likely uses the board below:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694683205.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.63aa2e0eBgaGYl (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694683205.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.63aa2e0eBgaGYl)
So one board supports JBC 210, 245 and T12? I wonder if the board gives better performance with JBC tips than T12? Seems like a great idea for someone who can't decide. I suppose you could use the board to build a station with a linear power supply and even use two controller boards for multiple irons?
If I didn't already have three soldering stations, I'd be tempted to build a multi iron station with that board using a 300VA toroid from Antek!
https://www.antekinc.com/as-3212-300va-12v-transformer/ (https://www.antekinc.com/as-3212-300va-12v-transformer/)
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I can't answer your questions, but I believe that the first station you link to, the Handskit station likely uses the board below:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694683205.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.63aa2e0eBgaGYl (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694683205.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.63aa2e0eBgaGYl)
So one board supports JBC 210, 245 and T12? I wonder if the board gives better performance with JBC tips than T12? Seems like a great idea for someone who can't decide. I suppose you could use the board to build a station with a linear power supply and even use two controller boards for multiple irons?
If I didn't already have three soldering stations, I'd be tempted to build a multi iron station with that board using a 300VA toroid from Antek!
https://www.antekinc.com/as-3212-300va-12v-transformer/ (https://www.antekinc.com/as-3212-300va-12v-transformer/)
Well the youyue 3600 has the ability to accept every jbc iron handle & tweezers,& I've seen the sugon Jbc clone iirc that allows both 210 & 245 tips to be used on the same iron.
(Theres a reviewer in spanish whom shows all the jbc clones compared to each other,& theres another Spanish reviewer whom tested out the Jabe 1200 vs the Real jbc & he switched the tips from both & the fake jbc tips made the real one perform worse,& the real tips made the Jabe perform identical to the real Jbc,he said that a Jbc rep told him the secret to Jbc is in the tips not the hardware,
but then a different reviewer says that some of his clones like the Toor-12 & Sugon & Jabe performs perfect with fake tips too so theres that.)
Bottom line though is that the software is identical in the Jabe 1200 & the actual Jbc,the only difference is that the Jabe can't use both style handles & tips,only the Sugon Jbc clone & the Youyue 3600 allow you to use both types of handles but afaik the Sugon is the one that allows you to use both types of tips on same handle
(I'm not 100% whether the Toor-t12-11,accepts both though.)
As far as reliability I think the Jbc clones are as close to a real jbc as you can get, because they even weigh the same & have a beefy power supply inside too. They even have a fan
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Hence sugon t26 can use t245 and t210 both tips in the given default handle??
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I bought a Youyue 3600
...
edit: I even tried PA1200 tweezers on my clone unit and it worked flawlessly.
can you share how to link the original connector of the Youyue station with the one of JBC PA1200?