Jabe UD-1200 Soldering station nice JBC clone

[thm_w]

The Chinese JBC knock-offs are too much money. They aren't the same quality as JBC stations. They should all be under $100 US. Same with the  KNOKOO DI3000 station and the Leisto T12-11. By asking over $200 US for these stations it gives some people the impression that it's a good value because they will work with some JBC tips. But it's all Chinese junk with no warranty. The performance may be close to the real thing. However, it's questionable. No certifications for safety etc. I wouldn't touch it for that price. And you still have to buy real JBC tips if you want it to actually work. And real tips are expensive.

So do you have some evidence that clone tips do not work? Because I don't see any provided.
The price will come down once one of the manufacturers integrates a switching supply instead of that huge transformer. Anyway, if the product isn't for you, simply don't buy it. Warning others about the certification is a valid concern, but, we have seen numerous fuses and tip is earth grounded, more than one can say for Weller.

Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better.

Quality wise what specifically? You haven't provided a particular point that backs up your statement.

You can always use genuine JBC tips. But I would think the way JBC precisely controls the temperature is the main reason for owning a JBC station. If the clone doesn't work the same, and it probably doesn't, then what's the purpose of having a clone? And the quick temperature ramp-up with JBC and clones is probably not good for tip life and thus needs to be controlled precisely. If that's not happening then you could be eating up tips faster. Who knows with the clones?

The purpose of having the clone may be to be able to use JBC tips and handle style or power capability at a lower price.
If you watched the review, you will see JBC eats up tips fast as it is, if anything the clone tips might last longer with slightly worse thermal performance. Anyway, you can drop the power limit on both the original and clone stations so that would probably extend tip life somewhat.

[nukie]

I don't understand why do you want to buy 'exact' clones/knockoff when you can buy the real thing? If you are talking about a compatible station I understand, I would totally support a compatible station that doesn't look alike trying to ripoff the real JBC. If you want it, buy the real thing, support the original company that made these happen. Without sales and funding they can never survive and make great products.

I wasn't very well off when I bought my first JBC station. The Hakko 936 served me well for more than 20 years until today, I still use along side JBC. When I first tried my JBC it doesn't justify the cost but it there was certainly a performance difference. I bought directly from JBC and shipping to Australia wasn't cheap and after all the currency conversion I have a lighter wallet but I know my money was given to the right company and people who worked to produce a professional level tool.

[thm_w]

I don't understand why do you want to buy 'exact' clones/knockoff when you can buy the real thing? If you are talking about a compatible station I understand, I would totally support a compatible station that doesn't look alike trying to ripoff the real JBC. If you want it, buy the real thing, support the original company that made these happen. Without sales and funding they can never survive and make great products.

I wasn't very well off when I bought my first JBC station. The Hakko 936 served me well for more than 20 years until today, I still use along side JBC. When I first tried my JBC it doesn't justify the cost but it there was certainly a performance difference. I bought directly from JBC and shipping to Australia wasn't cheap and after all the currency conversion I have a lighter wallet but I know my money was given to the right company and people who worked to produce a professional level tool.

$190 vs $600
Don't worry, they won't go out of business from a few hobbyists.

[guisveld]

Price does matter for us hobby nerds! And I understand the attraction of being able to work with JBC. Because I use one myself and I am very happy with it. There are alternatives, real JBC quality, the same power, safety and reliability and and a high quality 1.6 mm shizzle tip.  Write them in english, and I am sure they are willing to serve customers in other EU countries. And really; there is nothing better than a high quality analogue station! No extra VAT or import taxes.

https://www.eleshop.nl/jbc-bt-2bwa-soldeerstation-140watt.html

[Jane]

Does anyone have any experience with JBC CD-2SQE soldering station?
https://www.jbctools.com/cd-sq-precision-soldering-station-product-1580.html

Or  compatible/similar?

[Daruosha]

Does anyone have any experience with JBC CD-2SQE soldering station?
https://www.jbctools.com/cd-sq-precision-soldering-station-product-1580.html

Or  compatible/similar?

Yes, it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's so much popular across the forum, the search gives you hundreds of topics and posts.

[salavat]

And you still have to buy real JBC tips if you want it to actually work. And real tips are expensive.

Not really. I have Unisolder 5.2 controller and about ten tips (245 series) , some are genuine JBC and other are chinese clones. Have to note that not all chinese clones are of the same quality, mine come from Taobao supplier.

I have not noticed any difference in performance between original JBC and clones, the same was noted by someone else on this forum. China manufacturers do not make microspoon tips and HT alike tips, so for those I have original ones.

Price for the clone is below 8 USD.

[labjr]

I have not noticed any difference in performance between original JBC and clones, the same was noted by someone else on this forum. China manufacturers do not make microspoon tips and HT alike tips, so for those I have original ones.

Price for the clone is below 8 USD.

What source do you buy clone tips from?

[KL27x]

The Chinese JBC knock-offs are too much money... By asking over $200 US for these stations it gives some people the impression that it's a good value

People must get the impression that real JBC is amazing.

[KL27x]

Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better.

Quality wise what specifically? You haven't provided a particular point that backs up your statement.

Well, who cares? Trashing chinese products is cool. Louis Rossman reviews a 951 clone side by side against his genuine 951. Testing, wut? Try to even power it on, wut? Nope. He throws shade for 40 minutes and never even tries to solder with it.

Edit: been a few years since I watched it. He did solder at least a connector or two with it, TBF. 3 minutes out of a 53 minute video.

[Connecteur]

The Chinese can build to nearly whichever level of quality is requested.  Basically, nearly everything of any quality is made in China.
Unfortunately, many companies in the West and elsewhere simply specify, "cheap as possible," so that's exactly what they get.
It's unfair to dump on the Chinese for low quality. They are simply doing exactly what they are asked, and they seem to do it better than anyone else seems able to do.

[snoopy]

Quality-wise all the clones are a POS. Just because you have an isolated problem with something you're doing, doesn't make the clones better.

Quality wise what specifically? You haven't provided a particular point that backs up your statement.

Well, who cares? Trashing chinese products is cool. Louis Rossman reviews a 951 clone side by side against his genuine 951. Testing, wut? Try to even power it on, wut? Nope. He throws shade for 40 minutes and never even tries to solder with it.

Edit: been a few years since I watched it. He did solder at least a connector or two with it, TBF. 3 minutes out of a 53 minute video.

The 951 interface is stupid at best even on the genuine item. The whining about the clones is just petty. I have two of them and swapped them out for KSGER's with a much more usable interface, customization and proper setback

[Shock]

The 951 interface is stupid at best even on the genuine item. The whining about the clones is just petty. I have two of them and swapped them out for KSGER's with a much more usable interface, customization and proper setback

I'm not doubting the problems with the Hakko FX-951 because they seem blatantly obvious to me. But perception of quality and true value changes with experience.

They have been shipping KSGERs with a potentially dangerous smps design flaw and the enclosure should probably be grounded/earthed for standards compliance and safety. In fact none of these are compliant anywhere in the "western" world anyway.

Then there is the battery flaw and that it comes with no stand (hidden costs). It's still really kind of "cheap" feel station, aside from at least having a metal case. But then those cases are a few dollars in China anyway. The enclosure size and weight and lack of a real transformer in the product (likely makes shipping more viable) though some might like it, if you ever owned a traditional sized station (substantially more in materials) you can see why they are selling them for so cheap. Oled displays, some people hate em.

Then there is the ethical aspect about the counterfeit origins of these products (that still exists). The larger picture of Chinese products and subsidized freight undermining local economy and postal services.

[snoopy]

The 951 interface is stupid at best even on the genuine item. The whining about the clones is just petty. I have two of them and swapped them out for KSGER's with a much more usable interface, customization and proper setback

I'm not doubting the problems with the Hakko FX-951 because they seem blatantly obvious to me. But perception of quality and true value changes with experience.

They have been shipping KSGERs with a potentially dangerous smps design flaw and the enclosure should probably be grounded/earthed for standards compliance and safety. In fact none of these are compliant anywhere in the "western" world anyway.

Then there is the battery flaw and that it comes with no stand (hidden costs). It's still really kind of "cheap" feel station, aside from at least having a metal case. But then those cases are a few dollars in China anyway. The enclosure size and weight and lack of a real transformer in the product (likely makes shipping more viable) though some might like it, if you ever owned a traditional sized station (substantially more in materials) you can see why they are selling them for so cheap. Oled displays, some people hate em.

Then there is the ethical aspect about the counterfeit origins of these products (that still exists). The larger picture of Chinese products and subsidized freight undermining local economy and postal services.

Then the PACE ADS200 maybe the way to go for a serious setup without busting the bank on tips which seem to be way over the top for the JBC. I have had a Pace PS/90 with PPS15 station for years and I still use it today Thick barrel and tips really deliver the heat as good as the JBC and Hakko. In comparison what is the ADS200 like ? Interested in your experience with this new iron and tips which seem to be really good value and very reasonable ?

cheers

[labjr]

I just got a Pace ADS200 a couple weeks ago so I haven't used it much. But so far so good. I would stick to Dave's recommendation and use Ultra Performance tips with the extra thermal mass unless you're doing fine work. The iron is smaller than I thought it would be. So the extra mass is no big deal and doesn't get in my way.

[Shock]

In comparison what is the ADS200 like? Interested in your experience with this new iron and tips which seem to be really good value and very reasonable?

The PS90 for the PPS15 was the Sensatemp series, Pace later brought out the Intelliheat series which in addition to the PS90 supported the TD100 handpiece among other new tools.

For me the Pace ADS200 which is the start of the new Accudrive series is currently the best temp adjustable station and handpiece out there. Powerful (120W). Fast heating (3-4 seconds on the smallest tip). Accurate (single digit temp with no calibration required). Robust (all metal design). Simple to operate (no menus just up/down/preset button). Ergonomic (slim aluminum "cool touch" iron). Versatile (takes tiny smd and huge rework tips). Effortless tip swapping (under 5 seconds for a complete swap over). Cheap to run (low cost high quality tips).

I've been using the stations for over a year now and really happy with it. It has everything a modern station should (sleep, stand sleep, auto off, temp alerts, config lockout). Aaron from Pace a few days back showed the new 60W/60W tweezers coming out for the ADS200. Pretty cool considering most stations are about 60-70W.

[snoopy]

In comparison what is the ADS200 like? Interested in your experience with this new iron and tips which seem to be really good value and very reasonable?

The PS90 for the PPS15 was the Sensatemp series, Pace later brought out the Intelliheat series which in addition to the PS90 supported the TD100 handpiece among other new tools.

For me the Pace ADS200 which is the start of the new Accudrive series is currently the best temp adjustable station and handpiece out there. Powerful (120W). Fast heating (3-4 seconds on the smallest tip). Accurate (single digit temp with no calibration required). Robust (all metal design). Simple to operate (no menus just up/down/preset button). Ergonomic (slim aluminum "cool touch" iron). Versatile (takes tiny smd and huge rework tips). Effortless tip swapping (under 5 seconds for a complete swap over). Cheap to run (low cost high quality tips).

I've been using the stations for over a year now and really happy with it. It has everything a modern station should (sleep, stand sleep, auto off, temp alerts, config lockout). Aaron from Pace a few days back showed the new 60W/60W tweezers coming out for the ADS200. Pretty cool considering most stations are about 60-70W.

Who did you buy it from ?

[Shock]

Order from Mektronics is the cheapest, not sure of their stock levels. As far as I'm aware it's them or Element 14 here. See if they will do you a good price, I always ask if it's not a trivial purchase. If you are interested, the model you want is the "instant setback" version it comes with the cable for stand detection. You can always remove the cable later if you don't use it.

[thm_w]

I've been using the stations for over a year now and really happy with it. It has everything a modern station should (sleep, stand sleep, auto off, temp alerts, config lockout). Aaron from Pace a few days back showed the new 60W/60W tweezers coming out for the ADS200. Pretty cool considering most stations are about 60-70W.

Looks like a huge improvement over what is shown here: https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers
Won't be cheap though.

[snoopy]

Order from Mektronics is the cheapest, not sure of their stock levels. As far as I'm aware it's them or Element 14 here. See if they will do you a good price, I always ask if it's not a trivial purchase. If you are interested, the model you want is the "instant setback" version it comes with the cable for stand detection. You can always remove the cable later if you don't use it.

https://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0581/soldering-station-with-isb-tool/dp/2893441?st=PACE%20ADS200

https://www.mektronics.com.au/soldering-rework/pace-stations/pace-ads200-station-with-standard-tool-stand.html

BTW have you measured the tip temperatures of various tips to see how much tolerance there is in the specified temperatures ?

[Shock]

BTW have you measured the tip temperatures of various tips to see how much tolerance there is in the specified temperatures ?

Yeah I have, the station regulates better than my tip thermometer so I gave up after doing half a dozen tips. They are using k type thermocouples to get degree accuracy and also some secret sauce in the station. The heating profile is fairly passive and the curve tends to undershoot to temp as best as I can tell, which is impressive given the stations heating speed.

Mbless has drawn out the schematic and made replacement controller it's not as tight regulation though so he suspects they might use the 18-bit ADC on the PCB to profile which tip is being used. I get the impression from Paces manufacturing history and reading up on some of the previous series and patents that they have manufacturing tolerances and precision measurement down to a fine art.

[KL27x]

Undershoot seems to be the natural side effect of having heater and sensor tightly thermally coupled. This is the behavior I notice with my T12 clones, too.

There has to be some electrical insulation between heater and the copper in the tip. In a T12 tip, the heater is powered by the thermocouple, so that connection must be solid. so when the power is interrupted to take a reading, the thermocouple is affected by the recent, direct heating of the sensor. Not only this causes a more gradual ramp to set temp, but if the tip is under load, this creates more differential between set temp and tip temp; at least this is what I reckon causes the worse performance in this regard with my clones. There is "slop in the lead screw." When the tip is under no load, that slop eventually near-disappears. When the tip is under load and higher duty cycle, that slop grows. I am curious how well this can be negated by software, but I suspect it cant be corrected fully, without some compromises.

JBC could be made differently. They have separate circuits for thermocouple and heater,  but they are probably more similar in this regard than different.

In the classic 936, the sensor can be insulated fairly well from the heater and coupled much better to the tip, relatively (though not as closely fitted to the copper, this is overcome by surface area). It is actually superior for temp control in this way. The sensor measures almost purely actual tip temp whether the heater is on or off.  At least I assume the sensor in a 936 is intentionally insulated from the heater. That is how I would think to do it. I have never taken one apart.

[Shock]

Undershoot seems to be the natural side effect of having heater and sensor tightly thermally coupled. This is the behavior I notice with my T12 clones, too.

I meant it heats up undershooting into idle tip temp rather than overshoot and settle back, more to do with heating profile than anything. I've scoped it out of curiosity a while back but no plans to get too carried away, it's powered from unbuffered dc and it pulses/heats for as short as 8-10ms/120Hz to maintain regulation.

It's quicker and better regulated than any T12 based station I've seen so far. This Pace cart design is like 15 years? old now (aside from the changes they made to the ADS200 version of it) the old series is really quick as well.

[labjr]

It's quicker and better regulated than any T12 based station I've seen so far. This Pace cart design is like 15 years? old now (aside from the changes they made to the ADS200 version of it) the old series is really quick as well.

I assume it's also better than a genuine FX-951?

[Shock]

I assume it's also better than a genuine FX-951?

Two videos I've seen show the FX-951 with a genuine fine tip taking 17 seconds from room temp to 350C so that's the slowest of the T12 bunch. If you mean the old Pace Intelliheat series with the TD100/TD100A handpiece it can do 7-8 seconds from room temp to 350C on a fairly fine tip.