Author Topic: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?  (Read 4501 times)

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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2018, 02:56:51 pm »
I am an amateur welder, and my welds show it.  There is no substitute for the knowledge and experience (and native capability) of a good welder.   But equipment makes a difference also.  The quality of my welds made a huge jump when I made the step to a better grade autodarkening helmet.  Being able to see what you are doing matters.  Same applies to other parts of the process.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2018, 02:58:19 pm »

Really good channels for welding are ChuckE2009, weldingtipsandtricks, weld.com, the Fabrication series, This Old Tony and all i forgot. They all cover some aspects, but of course do not replace practice.

Can't stand ChuckE2009 as for last couple of years he has been concentrating on blatant sponsor product advertising  :(

NYC CNC is also sponsored (was?) by Tormach.
YouTuber Nerdly just uploaded a video demonstrating how PCNC770 sucks.
Even NYC CNC himself uses a Haas for precision stuffs.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2018, 03:11:05 pm »

NYC CNC is also sponsored (was?) by Tormach.

Thats another guy who talks too much   ;D  (and sometimes doesn't have too much clue what he is talking about)
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2018, 03:53:33 pm »
NYC CNC is also sponsored (was?) by Tormach.
YouTuber Nerdly just uploaded a video demonstrating how PCNC770 sucks.
Even NYC CNC himself uses a Haas for precision stuffs.
I saw that complaint video, but the few facts i could gather from it was: he bought the machine, complained about backlash issues when milling a circle (surprise!), but did not want to adjust the gibs, expecting to get a machine that works out of the box because he paid for a ready to use product.
When a support employee linked him a video on how to set up the gibs he complained about the video being from a 3rd party (nevertheless contained and showed the information needed). I don´t remember he mentioned on site support or something like that, no idea if they offer that anyway. Of course Haas is a different story.

- as off topic as it already is -
The thing with this kind of equipment (non-consumer electronics, metalworking tools, precision machines) is that you either have the skillset and tools to run it and check it or you don´t. I mean e.g. if the base of a machine is not level, a lathe starts to turn significant tapers and therefore can not be as precise. That alone means you can not just put it somewhere, turn it on and expect this to work perfectly.

The cheaper the thing was, the more attention to such things might be needed, but the general verdict in machining forums is that you always should do an initial check and setup. Often you need to remove the cosmoline from certain parts anyway before you start, so disassembling, cleaning and adjusting is the first thing to do. Sometimes those cheap machines come with the wrong (imperial/metric) lead screw or the wrong size gibs, which becomes obvious before it is switched on.

To make that somewhat relevant for the topic: it is important to aquire the skillset needed to make a judgement if the machine itself works properly or if it is a setup or operator issue. If that is not possible it might be helpful to visit a course or try to get training otherwise to build up the confidence.

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Online blueskull

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2018, 04:18:22 pm »
The cheaper the thing was, the more attention to such things might be needed, but the general verdict in machining forums is that you always should do an initial check and setup. Often you need to remove the cosmoline from certain parts anyway before you start, so disassembling, cleaning and adjusting is the first thing to do. Sometimes those cheap machines come with the wrong (imperial/metric) lead screw or the wrong size gibs, which becomes obvious before it is switched on.

I have a $2500 Carbide 3D CNC, keep in mind that's $2500 made in USA. That means the parts are probably worth very little.
Still, I was able to get <2 mil overall error, despite the rated error is 6 mil (8"*6 mil/ft+1.5 mil repeatability+0.5 mil resolution).
I think it's better to rate conservatively than to rate aggressively.
Granted, I don't cut deep (<=1/2 mm/pass with 1/4" ZrN carbide end mill), and I machine only highly machinable materials (6061-T6511 and 7075-T6).
But the verdict is that with cheap machine and zero experienced user, accurate parts can be made.
 

Offline Nauris

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2018, 06:05:27 pm »
We had some cheap chinese plasma "CUT 40" or something like that. Trying to cut an 40' container in half, we had to resort to the angle grinder. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. Starting cut was always marginal, especially on painted steel. It had the HF-type arc starting. If the paint was any thick it had to be cleaned off to make it strike an arc and that was super annoying. And consumables were short lived and of poor quality needing much fiddling when you changed them. And no hope it would cut the advertized 15 mm thick steel. Luckily we managed to sell it to a local plumber. He charges by the hour so he has all the time in the world to fight with that POS.

We then bought some small Telwin plasma - not exactly a premium brand and quite cheap still but it is way, way better. Pilot arc start so works on rusty and painted too. And changing the consumables is not half hour project figuring which part is too much out of tolerance. Even the consumables we have bought from China have been good so far. And it can actually barely cut that 15mm steel althought it claims 12 mm is max thickness.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 06:08:33 pm by Nauris »
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2018, 09:24:01 pm »
I'll bow out and try to learn something. Gonna definitely check out Jody and some of ^ those I haven't seen before. This is a great thread, already.

Mr.Packethead, good luck. I was envious until you described the job in more detail. Now it sounds way too much like work!

Meh.   Its not that big a deal.  Just some cutting, welding.. blah blah.
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Offline cprosser

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2018, 02:00:14 am »
I’ve taken 4 shipping containers, stacked them in a cube, welded them together, and then cut out the interior walls and made some windows too.

One thing to keep in mind with plasma and marine paint. Marine paint is some nasty stuff and you’ll be vaporizing it. In our case, doing the interior walls was a partially enclosed space. Even though my friend and I were wearing P95 (maybe even P100, it was a long time ago) respirators, we didn’t feel so well after a long day.

Oxy sucked. Super slow. Sawzall, that was just a bad idea. Plasma was really the bees knees. We used MIG for all the other work, we had a fluxcore Lincoln that we could drag around that worked great.

Sounds like a fun project!


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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2018, 02:09:56 am »
I’ve taken 4 shipping containers, stacked them in a cube, welded them together, and then cut out the interior walls and made some windows too.

One thing to keep in mind with plasma and marine paint. Marine paint is some nasty stuff and you’ll be vaporizing it. In our case, doing the interior walls was a partially enclosed space. Even though my friend and I were wearing P95 (maybe even P100, it was a long time ago) respirators, we didn’t feel so well after a long day.

Oxy sucked. Super slow. Sawzall, that was just a bad idea. Plasma was really the bees knees. We used MIG for all the other work, we had a fluxcore Lincoln that we could drag around that worked great.

Sounds like a fun project!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fluxcore MIG + Plasma sounds like the right way to do this project.   Fortuantely i'll be able to deal to all but one wall removal from the outside.

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Offline KL27x

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2018, 10:53:52 am »
ChuckE2009's 4 part Tig series is not bad!  :-+

I was skeptical going in, because I had seen his reviews of the HF metal lathe and Bauer portaband and, well... If you like ChuckE, do him a favor and don't watch those.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2018, 09:32:31 pm »
I’ve taken 4 shipping containers, stacked them in a cube, welded them together, and then cut out the interior walls and made some windows too.

One thing to keep in mind with plasma and marine paint. Marine paint is some nasty stuff and you’ll be vaporizing it. In our case, doing the interior walls was a partially enclosed space. Even though my friend and I were wearing P95 (maybe even P100, it was a long time ago) respirators, we didn’t feel so well after a long day.

Oxy sucked. Super slow. Sawzall, that was just a bad idea. Plasma was really the bees knees. We used MIG for all the other work, we had a fluxcore Lincoln that we could drag around that worked great.

P95 or P100 is only specifying particle filtration. If it didn't state multi-gas or some other level, it probably has a small amount of hazardous gas filtration but not as much as one designed for welding.
Still way better than wearing nothing though.

https://www.3mcanada.ca/3M/en_CA/company-ca/all-3m-products/~/3M-Particulate-Filter-2097-P100/?N=5002385+8720550+3293734700+3294529206&rt=rud
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2018, 01:16:51 am »
Should you encounter galvanized steel remove that coating before welding to it or wear proper breathing protection.
Also it is not a bad idea to remove paint and other residue as well before welding or cutting, as it avoids breathing in those fumes.

A good preparation improves the weld in the first place and leads to more consistent results.
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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2018, 01:28:39 am »
Should you encounter galvanized steel remove that coating before welding to it or wear proper breathing protection.
Also it is not a bad idea to remove paint and other residue as well before welding or cutting, as it avoids breathing in those fumes.

A good preparation improves the weld in the first place and leads to more consistent results.
A great benefit of using 0.6mm wire in a MIG is the ability of it to penetrate even un-prepped hot dipped galv and still give excellent welds.
Grind the galv off if you must but then you need a respirator for prep and welding.
Easier to set up a shop fan and blow the muck clear of the working area.
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2018, 02:16:11 am »
Quote
also it is not a bad idea to remove paint and other residue as well before welding or cutting, as it avoids breathing in those fumes.
W/e you do, don't use chlorinated brake cleaner. One whiff can end all your bad days. 
 

Offline BradC

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2018, 03:42:23 am »
A good preparation improves the weld in the first place and leads to more consistent results.

"Gee I wish I hadn't spent so much time preparing that weld"... said nobody, ever.
 
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2018, 04:13:40 am »
For an electronics forum, theres a huge amount of knowledge in other fields!   how did the pre-interneters actually learn stuff agaiin?
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2018, 04:32:07 am »
No doubt there is knowledge and skill at work. If you have just one chance to get it right or people die, then you better have the thinking cap on. But as you say, just being able to do basic welds with basic equipment seems like it would be plenty useful for the average joe. My brother taught himself to weld for fun... and he's just a lowly doctor. You'd think from some of these vids you need a toolchest covered in Snap-On stickers to hold a torch, correctly.
I think there's a saying about people blaming their tools.
 

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2018, 05:31:37 am »
For an electronics forum, theres a huge amount of knowledge in other fields!   how did the pre-interneters actually learn stuff agaiin?
Waaaay before the 'net as a teenager I learnt to arc weld with my uncles Young B. Burnt holes in most things (including me) but that's how you learn. Some 'over the shoulder' tips from those more experienced really helps with the basics and then you're away stitching everything in sight together.  :-DD
Got two arc units, a 3ph 400A monster, 150A TIG/stick portable, a 180A MIG and an oxy set now and there's not much I won't have a go at.
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2018, 07:17:30 am »
when i was in engeineering intermediate at university we had to go over to polytech on a Friday afternoon and do 'workshop' practicals..   the polytech tutors hated it, as univesity students were probalby pita.     I welded my scrap metal sample to the bench accidently, and had to grind it off!

So, prtty much now figured, that i'm after a seperate Plasma and MIG.   
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Offline BradC

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2018, 07:47:50 am »
So, prtty much now figured, that i'm after a seperate Plasma and MIG.

Make sure the Plasma has a pilot-arc start. Standard scratch or HF start will drive you batty.
Easy way to tell, a Pilot arc unit has 3 connectors. One for the gas/air, one for the switch and one single core (usually with a lug) for the return for the pilot arc. Most cheap Plasma units just have the gas & switch.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2018, 08:06:37 am »
For an electronics forum, theres a huge amount of knowledge in other fields!   how did the pre-interneters actually learn stuff agaiin?
Waaaay before the 'net as a teenager I learnt to arc weld with my uncles Young B. Burnt holes in most things (including me) but that's how you learn. Some 'over the shoulder' tips from those more experienced really helps with the basics and then you're away stitching everything in sight together.  :-DD

"over the shoulder" tips  beat the Youtube hands down if you are trying to learn something like welding.
Assuming that :
A) you can find someone who knows their business  >:D
B) the someone is able to teach or tell you how to do it. (not everyone is natural-born teacher)  >:D

Youtube and internet forums are great when you are dabbling in a bit of this and that... titanium or inconel machining, metrology, welding hardened tool steels, ceramic insert sharpening, precision analog circuitry.  No need to limit your discussions about latest sports events  ;D
 

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2018, 08:45:08 am »
Quite right mzzj  :-+

The first real welding teacher I had was in my late teens and early 20's and hell could he weld anything !
He was famous at a place where we both previously worked for repairing busted hypoid dif gears out of heavy machinery. In the 70's there wasn't much in the way of spares available locally and they had to come from OZ or USA and at best it took a couple of weeks.
I've seen him weld three replacement teeth onto a crownwheel and one and a half onto the bevel pinion then grind his welds roughly to shape with an angle grinder then better finish with a stone die grinder. The last stage was matching the bearing faces with blueing against undamaged teeth then a full cleanup and back into service.
All of his work lasted long after the replacement parts arrived and IIRC his record was six months.
These were 10T Allis Charmers log loaders doing heavy work, not just some toy bit of gear.
Eutectic 680 rods were his choice for tricky stuff.

When he started his own business I worked there for ~5yrs when he taught me a bundle of skills and later after I moved on his son moved in and got the same stuff passed to him. Sadly he's now too poorly sighted to weld much at all so the son has picked up the welding duties. Now my eyes are aging I need to pass on the little I've learnt.
All the shite one learns over the years.....................
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Offline SparkyFX

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2018, 08:56:27 am »
"over the shoulder" tips  beat the Youtube hands down if you are trying to learn something like welding.
Assuming that :
A) you can find someone who knows their business  >:D
B) the someone is able to teach or tell you how to do it. (not everyone is natural-born teacher)  >:D
Yes, because most people don´t like it when you distract them during their work and they have to concentrate on it - totally understandable.

Youtube is different in this regard, as the content creator is intenionally trying to distribute an information and is a lot more efficient at it. Especially works for things that are hard to explain in text and work a lot better by seeing how it can be done.

It doesn´t replace a 1:1 conversation, specific questions or a professional training, but i guess even when you approach people with a little bit of research before asking is a lot better than asking when completely clueless, it´s better for anyone.

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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Low cost ( chinese ) Plasma Cutter / TIG welder Combo suggestions?
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2018, 10:41:29 am »
So, dragging this back to the orginal topic;

Does any one know of a Good ( but lower Cost ) plasma Cutter that i can buy out of china.
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Offline mrpackethead

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