Author Topic: KSGER 245 Station.  (Read 1179 times)

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Offline Ungolian

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KSGER 245 Station.
« on: May 21, 2021, 10:28:37 pm »
So the regular v2.1 and v3.1 T12's seem to get a lot of traction here, but but I've only seen brief mentions of their new JBC 245 unit.  All that's really been said is that it has a cheaper screen than the OLED on the T12's.  Has anyone tried one yet?  Anything good or bad to say about it? Has anyone seen the control board behind the faceplate to comapre it?  I've been following what DavidAlfa has been doing with the custom firmware, and was wondering how they stack up.  The KSGER FW doesn't seem to have the attention to detail that David has put in, plus the 245 unit is relatively new, so I'm sure there are bugs.  The biggest issues with the T12 units seems to be with the power supplies, and they've scrapped it in favor of a barrel adapter.  So I guess they mean for you to power it with whatever you prefer. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001967033894.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.e7913c00ZnmfOb&mp=1
 


Offline floobydust

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2021, 04:42:30 am »
It looks like a KSGER prototype. Two-prong ungrounded power brick, 3D printed enclosure that will flop off the bench... meh I'll pass.
Problem is 6A requires a decent cable and socket, and what's with the warning it will blow up if you hot swap a tip?
 
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Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2021, 05:42:20 am »
Well, that was kind of where I was going with this.  There are questions to be answered, and there are people willing to look into it.  Some of these products have real potential, but aren't quite there yet.  A few inspired individuals have said "Yeah, I can finish the job" and produced some real gems.  David's custom FW for the T12 stations is superior.  But the power supply is the weak point.  If the control boards are indeed the same, all they really require is 24V@3A (possibly more?), the right firmware, and your handle, tip, and enclosure of your choice.  Seems like there is a way to work a lot of personal preference into that.  Ultimately I'm wondering if this is KSGER's first attemt at something similar, and if their T12 and 245 platforms could become some kind of "Unisolder Lite".  If it works 85% as good as the real deal, I can live with that.
 

Online wickated

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2021, 07:11:30 am »
no way to use this. crappy processor, crappy screen, crappy power supply. jbc cloning is new gold rush, but current results are very awful. just use high quality t12 board with good components and Davidaplha firmware, its a charm.
also there are some major problems about jbc tips - they use common ground on tip end, so you WILL have AC voltage on your tip end, and also some troubles goes from tip resistance - my are 2.2 ohms, which results in 260 watt startup, even more than c470 in their normal condition (42v@7ohm)
 
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Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2021, 04:56:05 pm »
Thanks!  That's pretty much what I was looking for.  As floobydust said, this is probably a prototype, and there are probably issues/bugs.  I guess it's worth keeping an eye on to see if they make improvements, but it will probably be a while.  Still curious about the control board though.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 05:04:46 pm by Ungolian »
 

Offline BlackICE

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2021, 11:52:13 pm »
 what's with the warning it will blow up if you hot swap a tip?

That's all I have to know about it top stay away!
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2021, 12:38:54 am »
"Attention! When you change JBC tips, please turn off the station, otherwise the station maybe burnt."

I think the socket must short out when you exchange a tip? Then it likely blows the power MOSFET.
 
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Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2021, 01:13:34 am »
Well... v1 of the T12 station had problems.  A company realeases a product that has issues, with the intention of fixing it with patches, and they may or may not get around to it.  Bill Gates invented that.   It seems like KSGER has the T12 mostly worked out now. The after market mods poeple have done have solved the rest.  I was just curious about any info on this new 245 station.  I didn't mind the size (I was going to mount it on the underside of a shelf on my work bench- it won't move).  No power section?  I'll use my bench supply.  It's just the control board, casing, handle, and 2 tips.  I'm sure KSGER put minimum effort and cost into this, so it's most likely the same control board with incomplete tweaks to their already existing FW.  If Floobydust's theory is correct, the problem is with their handle design. 

Not sure how legit this is, but this is the exact same unit (rebranded and without handle and tips) for $27 USD.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002029254253.html?gps-id=pcStoreJustForYou&scm=1007.23125.137358.0&scm_id=1007.23125.137358.0&scm-url=1007.23125.137358.0&pvid=dd159527-5909-4fe4-a242-a6f1921ffc24&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.smartJustForYou_414584468.0
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 01:17:48 am by Ungolian »
 

Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2021, 01:25:05 am »
And there is a picture of the board in that link.  It's not the same.

[attachimg=1]
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 01:33:18 am by Ungolian »
 

Offline totalnoob

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2021, 01:59:50 pm »
Thanks for the photo.  It is an STC based controller.  Looks like an upgraded/condensed version of the one I linked to.
 
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2021, 07:55:04 pm »
They get better and better on making it crappier! :-DD
Apart of the STC mcu, the layout and circuit isolation/separation is nice.
If traces and power planes are done correctly, not bad!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 08:01:25 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2021, 08:26:47 pm »
David, I was really hoping this was the same STM32 board they use in the T12 station, and I could flash your firmware.  But it's not, it's an 8-bit STC.  The STM32 is obviously better.  But is it really necessary?  We're not talking about multi axis CNC, just temperature control.  I'm just going to pick up a V2.1 or v3.1 and flash your firmware, but this 245 unit really had me curious.  I kind of thought KSGER may have just taken your work and implenented it in their product.  Instead they used a different processor, a half-assed v1 firmware, and possibly bad handle design that can ruin the whole unit.  Maybe they get it straigntened out, maybe they don't.  But at this point I don't really see any reason to bother with it.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 08:29:27 pm by Ungolian »
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2021, 08:53:33 am »
I doubt it, these firmwares are totally different, already existed before my work.
STC is a completely different architecture, but the porting shouldn't be that hard.
As long as it has enough RAM, flash and speed, an 8-bit mcu can do it.
It'll need adjusting the functions that control the hardware (spi,i2c, ADC, flash read/write, gpio), but the 99% of the code will be the same.
But I don't have these boards, so it's a dead end.
What's the STC mcu in these boards? Not readable in the pics.
I don't have anything against these stcs, else than por english documentation (if any). Definitely not willing to learn chinese for a $25 station haha
Stm32 also has terrible support for their ecosystem, so no surprise.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 09:11:03 am by DavidAlfa »
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Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2021, 06:35:42 pm »
Yeah, I'd agree that it is a dead end.  For now.  There has been a chip shortage, and KSGER specifically said that and was shipping units with STCs instead of STMs (the Handskit unit is using the STC as well).  They may very well have intended to use STMs for these, but had to use the STC instead.  That may change in the future.  Thanks for your work, David.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2021, 06:50:27 pm »
The STC has been used for a while now.
They are completely different, so definitely not a drop-in replacement like the CKS32 and other similar clones.
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Online wickated

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2021, 03:36:17 am »
"chip shortage" is marketing bullshit. reason is they already have tons of stc chips with nearzero cost. i they really wanted to sell same quality products, they would use cs32/gd32 stm32 direct clone, but they obviously did not.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2021, 04:08:12 am »
The ST France strike has messed up their production, even before any fab shortage. It's just the STC clunker is cheaper, so the $$ can go to the big LCD display.
I did see Russian reviews of these controller boards "XPGT12" variations: https://www.youtube.com/c/DIYKITs/videos
I noticed the firmware on some STC versions fakes the temperature display, when the guy does a water dip or tip cooldown lol.
 

Online wickated

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2021, 04:52:42 am »
I noticed the firmware on some STC versions fakes the temperature display, when the guy does a water dip or tip cooldown lol.
its not really fake temp, but temp compensted by unternal cpu temp meter, which is absurdly high (~60 c) cuz stc is made on very old 999nm process. also cheap tip dont boil water.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2021, 06:38:38 am »
Yes they all fake the temp after heating up.
The didn't bother with digital filtering, and probably their regulation algorithm is also on the cheap.
So once it gets close to the setpoint it will freeze the reading.
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Offline floobydust

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2021, 07:32:45 am »
In the videos, he cools the tip down with a wet Q-tip while it's touching the thermocouple, and the soldering station displays no change, even as tip temp drops from 300°C to 100°C!  I didn't even see the % heat jump up much.
 

Offline Ungolian

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2021, 07:50:54 am »
There's always some kind of issue, isn't there?  What's wrong with this picture -
 

Online wickated

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Re: KSGER 245 Station.
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2021, 09:31:14 am »
In the videos, he cools the tip down with a wet Q-tip while it's touching the thermocouple, and the soldering station displays no change, even as tip temp drops from 300°C to 100°C!  I didn't even see the % heat jump up much.
if you mean those vids russian there is mentioned tips are fake. and water from cotton tip result in meant power drain like 15 watt.
 


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