My budget just went up for soldering equipment

[Fried Chicken]

I just did a repair that saved me $1500 and quite a bit of headache.  It wasn't trivial: an SMD capacitor removal.  I slightly lifted two of the pads but it seems everything works.

My current soldering station is a Hakko FX-951; the Hakko filter, several tips, two wands idk why, and the nice base station.

I'm not looking to upgrade, but in doing the chip removal I had to pull out the old radioshack soldering iron to solder both ends and lift.
I'd like some hot tweezers for FX-951.

Hakko makes hot tweezers in a kit: https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/FX8804-CK/Soldering-Tweezers/?v=0
But none for the FX-951?  The upgrade unit??  What???

I'm also wanting a solder suction device, thinking of getting the Hakko FR301.
I see Hakko tools are significantly cheaper in Japan than here:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/product/B0795D1F1L

Japan runs on 100v 50/60Hz AC.  For accessories I see no problem, but for something going into the wall I see there might be problems, but with mixed reports.

This guy claims there are only two versions

He claims the heating elements are different, which makes sense... or is he referring to the Hakko 808?

Additionally I'll get a Quadhands:
https://www.quadhands.com/

Deciding which version to get, as well as any additional accessories (like the magnifier).

I'm tempted to get a hot air rework station, but I don't like cheap tools, and the good ones are out of my budget (for now).


I'm also not against simply selling everything and upgrading to some ultra mega unit as long as the price sits <$500 (used or new).  An integrated soldering and rework station, ideally compatible with my existing tips (or not).  This repair saved me so much I can justify a lot.

Any additional must have accessories (magnifying light?), I'm all ears.
I would say 80% of my electronics repair attempts have failed so far, but this was the highest stakes one (shifter IC for a mercedes transmission), and it fucking worked afaik.  I am thrilled!

[Shock]

Congrats on the repair.

I discovered the same. Hakko needs a dual channel station, something like an FM203 to run the similar design cartridge tweezers last time I looked. But do check the current models as they have added some.

As you plan doing rework, in my opinion a gun style integrated vacuum desoldering tool isn't as nice as a pencil style, especially for smd pad and bga clean up etc. They are heavier and a bit more awkward due to the angle.

Cartridge tips for vaacum desoldering and tweezers can be costly. Rebuying that stuff could be painful, so take your time and price everything ahead of time. If you're getting 3 sets of tweezers tips (for instance) that few hundred dollars on a better station will soon start to feel very insignificant.

[Fried Chicken]

Congrats on the repair.

I discovered the same. Hakko needs a dual channel station, something like an FM203 to run the similar design cartridge tweezers last time I looked. But do check the current models as they have added some.

As you plan doing rework, in my opinion a gun style integrated vacuum desoldering tool isn't as nice as a pencil style, especially for smd pad and bga clean up etc. They are heavier and a bit more awkward due to the angle.

Cartridge tips for vaacum desoldering and tweezers can be costly. Rebuying that stuff could be painful, so take your time and price everything ahead of time. If you're getting 3 sets of tweezers tips (for instance) that few hundred dollars on a better station will soon start to feel very insignificant.

Thank you!

I just realized my post was a whole bunch of autistic dribble.  The shifter job worked a number on me: it's a good couple hours to get the parts in or out after you've familiarized yourself with the process, the repair was entirely on a hunch, and the stakes for the solder work were very high (both monetarily and the hours of work getting these parts apart and back together).  Yeeeeesssshhh.

I've done research on the different options available, and the whole market seems like a giant, for lack of a better word, shitshow.
Hakko has a very user friendly look, but I can't make heads or tails of their different tips, systems, etc.

Also everything is going digital; I have to agree with Louis Rossman on this one:


You want a unit with analog controls and a flat top you can stack other equipment on.  He seems to really like the Weller WHA900.

Also, yes, the tips and accessories!  I guess the move is to find someone selling everything at once as accessories seemingly become worthless on the used market.

Any specific pencil style recommendations for solder removal?

[Fried Chicken]

The hunt is on for a Hakko FM-206 with as many accessories as I can get.

[Shock]

Well everyone has biases but don't buy too much into what people are selling on their online store.

The Weller micro tools are nice. i don't need them though. Most slim/stardard size handpieces have exactly the same tips.

Those hot air videos are out of date, most people are using chinese Quick or Atten stations due to the price/performance. Especially nozzles, the Chinese ones are dirt cheap and they generally don't degrade performance in anyway.

My current setup is better I feel than Hakkos offerings. Then if you going to spend JBC money you might as well get the best Metcal.

I don't think $500 goes very far but for just over a grand you can have basically the best Metcal tweezers iron combo in terms of performance.

So that is why I'm a Pace or Metcal, the other reason is JBC multichannel stations are heavily software driven and all that is superfluous to me.

So I think perhaps if you stay with Hakko try to get the station that allows you to run at least both handpieces. You can't seriously get a vaccum desoldering station in budget so might just have to settle for the $300 integrated model. (Edit: I see your thinking about a second hand FM206).

If you aim for a higher budget, just over a grand Metcal and get vacuum desoldering later. Then budget about $300 for a chinese Quick or Attenfor hot air rework.

Again price the retail cost of everything you need or want ahead of time, accessories and consumables can be a money pit. Unlike soldering stations, vacuum desoldering stations have more moving parts and used models may require maintenance. Caveat emptor. 

[Fried Chicken]

Well everyone has biases but don't buy too much into what people are selling on their online store.

The Weller micro tools are nice. i don't need them though. Most slim/stardard size handpieces have exactly the same tips.

Those hot air videos are out of date, most people are using chinese Quick or Atten stations due to the price/performance. Especially nozzles, the Chinese ones are dirt cheap and they generally don't degrade performance in anyway.

My current setup is better I feel than Hakkos offerings. Then if you going to spend JBC money you might as well get the best Metcal.

I don't think $500 goes very far but for just over a grand you can have basically the best Metcal tweezers iron combo in terms of performance.

So that is why I'm a Pace or Metcal, the other reason is JBC multichannel stations are heavily software driven and all that is superfluous to me.

So I think perhaps if you stay with Hakko try to get the station that allows you to run at least both handpieces. You can't seriously get a vaccum desoldering station in budget so might just have to settle for the $300 integrated model. (Edit: I see your thinking about a second hand FM206).

If you aim for a higher budget, just over a grand Metcal and get vacuum desoldering later. Then budget about $300 for a chinese Quick or Attenfor hot air rework.

Again price the retail cost of everything you need or want ahead of time, accessories and consumables can be a money pit. Unlike soldering stations, vacuum desoldering stations have more moving parts and used models may require maintenance. Caveat emptor.

I've narrowed down my search now to some integrated unit.  Space is just way too tight.  The Weller WRS 3000 has also popped up on my radar.  I see a lot of the Chinese units... it's something I generally shy away from as a rule.

Is power a concern here?  Do the fully integrated units suffer from low power on the hot air side?

I recognize the issue with used units... really I'd want someone selling their entire setup with all the accessories and whatnot.  Thats' how I got the FX-951 and it's served my needs thus far.

[mahi]

I've narrowed down my search now to some integrated unit.  Space is just way too tight.  The Weller WRS 3000 has also popped up on my radar.  I see a lot of the Chinese units... it's something I generally shy away from as a rule.

Is power a concern here?  Do the fully integrated units suffer from low power on the hot air side?

Don't get the Weller WRS 3000 if you are seriously interested in hot air. The Weller HAP 1 hot air pencil that goes with the WRS 3000 is only 100 W and the  maximum air volume is 10 l/min (with a 30 s on/off cycle to prevent the pump from overheating). Dedicated hot air soldering stations can move a lot more air and have the thermal power to keep it heated. The Weller WHA 900 from the Louis Rossmann video you linked to has a 600+ W heating element and the pump delivers up to 50 l/min. The popular Quick 861DW is even 1000 W with up to 120 l/min. That does not mean you'll always use the hot air station at max settings, but at least you have the power available when needed whereas the HAP 1 can do only small components, or requires special accessories to create heated chambers for larger chips (Weller WRK).

[Fried Chicken]

I've narrowed down my search now to some integrated unit.  Space is just way too tight.  The Weller WRS 3000 has also popped up on my radar.  I see a lot of the Chinese units... it's something I generally shy away from as a rule.

Is power a concern here?  Do the fully integrated units suffer from low power on the hot air side?

Don't get the Weller WRS 3000 if you are seriously interested in hot air. The Weller HAP 1 hot air pencil that goes with the WRS 3000 is only 100 W and the  maximum air volume is 10 l/min (with a 30 s on/off cycle to prevent the pump from overheating). Dedicated hot air soldering stations can move a lot more air and have the thermal power to keep it heated. The Weller WHA 900 from the Louis Rossmann video you linked to has a 600+ W heating element and the pump delivers up to 50 l/min. The popular Quick 861DW is even 1000 W with up to 120 l/min. That does not mean you'll always use the hot air station at max settings, but at least you have the power available when needed whereas the HAP 1 can do only small components, or requires special accessories to create heated chambers for larger chips (Weller WRK).

This confirms some of my suspicions.  In that case I'm leaning towards the Hakko FM-203 since it will work with my existing accessories, and then I can get a separate dedicated hot air station: maybe the Weller.

1000w with 120l/min is a straight up hairdryer, I don't know why someone would need that.

[bdunham7]

I'm also wanting a solder suction device, thinking of getting the Hakko FR301.
I see Hakko tools are significantly cheaper in Japan than here:
Japan runs on 100v 50/60Hz AC.  For accessories I see no problem, but for something going into the wall I see there might be problems, but with mixed reports.

I've had multiple people tell me that their 100V Japan-sourced FR301 works fine plugged directly into NA 120V.  They do list different part numbers for for the heating elements but as J-R has noted, that doesn't mean the elements have any significant difference internally.  The difference in power ratings backs up the idea that they are the same.  The pump motor can probably take a bit of extra power without any problem, but you could also buy a variac or iso-variac like the BK 1653 which would come in handy at other times.

I have the FR-301 and the keys to being happy with it are 1) buy plenty of specialty tips and 2) clean it regularly.  In fact the need to repeatedly clean it is the thing that makes it a good for low-volume or hobby work but not a lot of serious bulk desoldering.  I switched to a Pace SX-100 system and that's definitely pro-quality.

I'm tempted to get a hot air rework station, but I don't like cheap tools, and the good ones are out of my budget (for now).

I got a Sumsour 858D (for like $29 on AliExpress with 4 tips) and it's actually good enough for a lot of stuff and it doesn't take up much space.  I don't like cheap tools either but it's way better than nothing and probably would have had your SMD capacitor off in a flash (with some care, of course).  I've done several repairs with it that each saved me 10X or more the price of the unit.

I'm also not against simply selling everything and upgrading to some ultra mega unit as long as the price sits <$500 (used or new).

I shopped, scrounged and fixed up a Pace MBT250 with an SX-100, TT-65 (tweezers) as well as an ADS-200 set for about $1000 and that doesn't include hot air.  Getting something really good for less than that is going to be tough unless you get pretty lucky.  There's a lot of demand for SX-100 stuff in general so I bought that part new.  You're probably better off with individual solutions like the FR-301, Hakko tweezers (although I have some cheap Yihua ones that work OK) and a cheap hot-air station.

Heres the hot-air station:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196854637241

Pro tip:  Throw the solder away but keep the spools!

[Fried Chicken]

I don't like cheap tools, and the good ones are out of my budget (for now).

I've found this isn't universally true.... when a cheap tool causes more damage than any potential savings.
I had a cheap power washer shoot a nozzle that wasn't seated right like a gun.  Fortunately not pointed at the car I was washing, but had it been, the resulting dent would have exceeded the cost of a proper nozzle holder.

Gaaaaahhh

The plot thickens; hakko.... the FM-203 will do desoldering, but only with an additional special control module, the FM-204 has the suction but won't do tweezers or a whole host of stuff...  It's still the FM-206 I think... I think that has built in vacuum??

Holy moly this whole market is complicated.... and then on the buying side, questions on buying directly from Japan and their (WTF 50 and 60Hz) power system

[bdunham7]

I've found this isn't universally true.... when a cheap tool causes more damage than any potential savings.

Very true and many of those 858D clone hot-air stations are very poorly assembled.  There's no savings when you electrocute yourself, fry something you are fixing or burn down your house.  The Sumsour one I bought was indeed assembled correctly and has a correctly wired physical power off switch so I feel safe not unplugging it.  Until I disassembled it and inspected it I wouldn't have been willing to trust it at all.

[thm_w]

Read some existing threads here. I don't think its worth investing more into the hakko T12 ecosystem unless you get a deal on used equipment.

But at the same time, there aren't really any good options for all in one compact stations, which I would avoid for that reason, and if one thing dies you lose it all.

You can get RF4-H5 for $90 but it will take up some bench space. If you do not want to sacrifice any space, either Quick TR1 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006654324595.html) or JCD 8208 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006883107750.html), as they can be hidden away after use. But I would probably go for a full size bench station instead, maybe spend some money on shelving or racking to make the space.

[Fried Chicken]

I appreciate all the help.

I'm again leaning towards the Hakko FM-206 and a separate hot air unit.

From what I've pieced together: the FM-203 and FM-206 are both able to use the tweezers, tips, and solder sucking gun, but the FM-203 requires the purchase of another separate control module/vacuum pump (C1492) for the use of the FM-2024 desoldering gun.



The FM-204 works with the desoldering tool as it contains a vacuum pump, the FM-205 I am not sure, but neither work with the tweezers or any specialty tips.

The FM-206 will do all of the above, has a built in vacuum pump, and a built in blower pump, but from everything I've seen/read, the hot air is next to useless, so a separate unit is the move... with the caveats now being: is it smart to buy such an all-in-one solution, lest one part break and brick the whole thing, especially as these are probably EOL pretty soon given Hakko's recent product announcements.

[MarkL]

I learned my lesson about buying all-in-one units.  For my next investment in soldering equipment I wanted the flexibility to buy exactly what I wanted for each function without having to compromise.

Recently, within the last year, I bought the FM-203, the FR-301 desoldering gun, and the Quick 861DW hot air station.  For the FM-203, I bought the standard handpiece, the micro handpiece, the high power handpiece and the micro tweezers.  All with a selection of tips.

Everything works great and are well built.  No complaints on actual soldering/desoldering functions.

The only things I don't like are: The user interface on the FM-203.  It is archaic is extremely annoying to change temperatures, and I had to immediately disable the "key".  And I don't like the power switch on the back, or that the idle is detected with a separate wire that goes to the cradle the iron sits in.  They could have done that through the regular cord instead of a separate wire that gets in the way.

[Fried Chicken]

Just to spice things up: Hakko provides no schematics or firmware, so if something breaks, lol FU.

Reminds me of Hioki, a brand I stopped recommending for that reason;  Fluke wins!

[Shock]

Multichannel is fine as long as it's reasonable quality, has parts and can be repaired. Hakko just makes particularly unintuitive interfaces.

Vacuum desoldering can be done fairly low power but hot air reflow uses a larger power supply and more airflow volume, so dedicated units just are a safer bet. Quick 861DW and Atten ST862D are fairly popular.

[Shock]

It's likely only Pace in the past has provided schematics, however everyone is quite guarded these days.

Check out their new MBT450. Not out yet but 3 channel with rear integrated hot air, quick filter change, nice interface and deceptively small bench footprint (use the connectors as guides).

Firmware is tricky most have no ability to do a low level recovery. Pace in the past has used socketed micros, not sure about this model.

[Fried Chicken]

Oh my god I just found this amazing thing







Now THIS is what I'm talking about!

Every day we stray further from God

[Shock]

I take it you haven't seen the Pace PRC2000.

https://paceworldwide.com/prc2000-miniature-microminiature-electronic-repair

[Electro Fan]

Numero Uno

https://reverb.com/en-no/item/40195320-hickok-580a-labratory-grade-tube-tester-1965-black-silver

[tooki]

It's likely only Pace in the past has provided schematics, however everyone is quite guarded these days.

Pace hasn’t provided schematics for yeeeeears. They’re only publicly available for products from around the early 80s and before. (I’m sorta guessing about the year because most of their documentation is undated.)

[tooki]

Numero Uno

https://reverb.com/en-no/item/40195320-hickok-580a-labratory-grade-tube-tester-1965-black-silver

That has nothing to do with soldering equipment. 

[mahi]

Just to spice things up: Hakko provides no schematics or firmware, so if something breaks, lol FU.

Reminds me of Hioki, a brand I stopped recommending for that reason;  Fluke wins!

If that is your criteria, stop looking at modern equipment, period. I loathe the trend, but reality is that public schematics and service manuals are a thing of the past. For decades already. That includes Fluke.

So, either get over this, or be prepared to deal with very old equipment of which parts and consumables may become harder and harder to get.

As for the Weller WHA 900, I think it's a great hot air station, but not at the price Weller asks for it and its accessories. Just look up the prices of nozzles - if you can even get them (see DigiKey & Farnell). Chinese offerings like the Atten ST-862D or Quick 861DW cost a fraction of the Weller, come with a few nozzles, and have twice the performance. So, only consider the Weller if you can get it with a selection of nozzles for a bargain.

[Fried Chicken]

Just to spice things up: Hakko provides no schematics or firmware, so if something breaks, lol FU.

Reminds me of Hioki, a brand I stopped recommending for that reason;  Fluke wins!

If that is your criteria, stop looking at modern equipment, period. I loathe the trend, but reality is that public schematics and service manuals are a thing of the past. For decades already. That includes Fluke.

So, either get over this, or be prepared to deal with very old equipment of which parts and consumables may become harder and harder to get.

As for the Weller WHA 900, I think it's a great hot air station, but not at the price Weller asks for it and its accessories. Just look up the prices of nozzles - if you can even get them (see DigiKey & Farnell). Chinese offerings like the Atten ST-862D or Quick 861DW cost a fraction of the Weller, come with a few nozzles, and have twice the performance. So, only consider the Weller if you can get it with a selection of nozzles for a bargain.

Well at a bare minimum a service manual.  Regardless, I think I have my sights set on a Hakko FM-206.  Their desolder gun unit looks really nice, it will work with all my existing tips, I wouldn't have to sell everything and re-buy a new system.

[thm_w]

With the Atten or Quick you can easily find replacement parts:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806212192491.html
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832802888800.html
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801653224712.html

Hakko seems to have some things but they are not cheap:
https://hakkousa.com/b3428-motor.html