New type of microscopes in AliExpress

[Raato172]

Hi,

I have been looking information about latest models of microscopes sold in AliExpress. Besides a few short clips on Youtube there are no user posted experience to be found.

The real problem in my current setup is that eyepieces are too high for comfortable working position. I also like large working distance so attaching higher magnification barlow-lense is not an option. All other moving parts are adjusted for pleasant work, but i have to reach my neck to see through microscope. These new models would offer tilting action for the eyepieces among other things.

So my question is: has anyone tried any model that has up/down moving eyepiece possibility? Here are a couple of links to AliExpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009709401567.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009987901658.html

[jfiresto]

Tilting eyepiece tubes have been common for decades on surgical microscopes, which typically have a 250mm working distance. With them, you would not have to sit as close to the workbench edge. Have you tried a higher chair?

[jfiresto]

I should add the bigger advantage will probably be that tiltable tubes let you sit more upright.

[thm_w]

The cheaper RF4s have been around for a while. This RF4 pro is an improvement, 10 zoom ratio, but whether or not you gain anything from that depends on the optics quality. Another thing you have to watch out for is that either they are poorly aligned, or can be easily bumped in shipping. I don't know if its possible to get a refund or prove that this is the case if it happens.

The Sunshine looks much more interesting, I would easily give up some image quality for better microscope ergonomics.

Also sold as Mechanic brand:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808935096935.html
https://www.diyfixtool.com/products/mechanic-smart-eye-microscope-7-45x-zoom-for-phone-repair?_pos=24&_sid=58bad4a6d&_ss=r&variant=46789051056357 $265
The price is the same on alibaba ($300)
They both have magnetic light, zoned lighting and 10x25 eyepieces.
Mechanic says 0.7 to 4.5x zoom, Sunshine 0.7x to 5.8x in the photos. So for some reason the Sunshine has higher zoom ratio (8.3 vs 6.4).
Stand on the mechanic looks better quality.
Barlow doesn't seem to be included, and may be proprietary design. Not good. I'll ask the seller.




Maybe related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v4tMFcFIKQ

[Raato172]

Thank you all for the input so far 

The chair, table, lenght of my spine are pretty much fixed by now. So tiltable diopters are what I am looking for now:



The original idea of this post was to ask if someone has actually tried one of these type microscopes. If not, maybe I will take a hit for the team and order one and share my experiences.

Other thing that would be helpfull is, can one attach Barlow-lense for increased working distance. By looking at https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWXhC2WX8uo the easy answer is no. But what if I would 3D-print a mounting ring and just slam one to the bottomf of objective lens?

[thm_w]

The mechanic includes a barlow, see the list at the bottom "0.5x adapter x1". Where you can buy the other lens sizes though, I'm not sure, as they might be proprietary.

I asked diyphonefix about the Sunshine, they said they'd stock it, but then never responded after that. I'll ask them again.

[Raato172]

Yuo are right. I just spotted from the BOM of this one https://www.diyfixtool.com/products/mechanic-smart-eye-microscope-7-45x-zoom-for-phone-repair?_pos=24&_sid=58bad4a6d&_ss=r&variant=46789051056357 that a "0.75x auxiliary objective lens" is included. Realy good to know!

[dietert1]

How about buying that microscope and reporting about it afterwards?
We have an old russian stereo microscope and a newer chinese one and each of them has its advantages and disadvantages. For example the chinese one does not tolerate any deviation in the viewing position. I mean the image disappears once you move the head by 1 mm.
Also it has a smaller working distance. Those LED ring lamps make handling under the scope even more cumbersome as they occupy quite some space. The old microscope illuminates from further away (transformer and halogen lamp).
Neither of them supports the vertical adjustment of the eyepieces.

Regards, Dieter

[Raato172]

I have currently an Amscope SM745B-B (https://tinyurl.com/3xbwjaus ). Other otherwise it is perfect for my use, but I have to reach every time i am using it. Usually for long time and this stress position is quite painful.

This Chinese scope that you have, do you have any information what type of model it is? Is it new (acquired past three years)? Edit: "and a newer chinese one" sry please ignore the second question 

[dietert1]

Yes, i bought it one year ago. The product is a Kaisi 37045A++. Its zoom range is labeled 0.7 to 4.5 and the eyepieces are labeled WF 10x / 20. Two weeks later i bought the LED ring illumination for it. Don`t have the camera yet.

Regards, Dieter

[GuidoK]

This is the only real review of that microscope I could find, by some french guy:
https://youtu.be/Q8UprYFttBg?si=Vunvnj9_vtxMmXeM

But he's not happy at all with the optics.
Basically he bought it for his neck/back, and the angle adjustment of the eyepieces works great but the stereoscopic view is really bad.
I can't imagine it to be a monoscopic microscope, but looking at it's construction and what he shows of the objective it could be a common main objective stereo microscope where they used a lens way too small or got the angular travel of the view all wrong or something like that, which pretty much defies using a stereo microscope of course.
Normall common main objective is only found in really expensive stereo microscopes and all the cheap ones are greenough, and apparently it's not that easy to get it right for a very low budget, even for the chineze 

He also explains a lot about reflections he sees in the view. So I guess coming back from the lit object into the objective but at a different angle than the direct light. At some point I also thought to see incredibe chromatic distortion (sadly there's not a lot of image footage through the microscope/camera), but that could also be reflections or coloration of light bouncing off the microscope itself on the object again as it's blue ffs. Why there are brands that make optical equipment in strong bright shiney colours instead of the usual mat white or black is beyond me....those mat black or white tints are chosen with a reason imho..

[thm_w]

Yeah that small exit lens didn't seem ideal. The CMO I use has a 48mm barlow lens, this one looks to be about half that.
If you look for China SMZ800 clones, they are well made and don't have these issues, but the price is significantly higher, at least $1200 on alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/SMZ800-Binocular-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-8x_798251536.html

With a greenough you'll either need to block one eye or steal part of the image to use a camera, so him having a rear reflection without eyes on the lenses isn't a huge deal. But then at 22:21 there is a reflection even with his eyes up to the eyepieces, and he says its in the eyepieces too, really bad. Based on these issues I would guess the Sunshine design would have the exact same flaws.

[jfiresto]

This is the only real review of that microscope I could find, by some french guy:
https://youtu.be/Q8UprYFttBg?si=Vunvnj9_vtxMmXeM

... Basically he bought it for his neck/back, and the angle adjustment of the eyepieces works great but the stereoscopic view is really bad.
I can't imagine it to be a monoscopic microscope, but looking at it's construction and what he shows of the objective it could be a common main objective stereo microscope where they used a lens way too small or got the angular travel of the view all wrong or something like that, which pretty much defies using a stereo microscope of course....

That objective would be very small for a CMO microscope, and the head is also missing some prisms you would need for a 'scope with two optical paths. I tend to the notion it only has one, that is, it is a monocular microscope. That is not a bad thing to have for measuring things or peering into deep holes. I would be very happy to have a head that articulates like it does, but with stereo paths and negligible reflections.

[GuidoK]

I saw a new review of this microscope (branded Sunshine R360 Pro), and it looks interesting:
https://youtu.be/J_-mCUoYn3Q?si=Nq1ngf5ply9ohLU0

So apparently it is a CMO / infinity optics type stereo microscope, which is very interesting for this price (they normally start at ~€3k+ I guess), and offers very flexible eyepieces for a good working position.
According to the reviewer the depth perception is less than the usually Greenough stereo microscopes in this price range, but his eyes can more easily adapt to the stereoscopic view (less fatigue)

In this review the reflections from face to camera is also noticed. But I wonder if this is an issue when looking through the microscope.

[jfiresto]

That sure looks and acts like a 2-D, "macroscope" to me, and not a 3-D, Common Main Objective (parallel system) stereo microscope. A CMO design will show distinctive lateral chromatic aberration that gets stronger and more insistent toward the edges. This reviewer's microscope doesn't, in fact, you might think the chromatic aberrations get weaker.



I really like the microscope's head. I would write more but I have some things I need to finish today.

[ygi]

This is the only real review of that microscope I could find, by some french guy:
https://youtu.be/Q8UprYFttBg?si=Vunvnj9_vtxMmXeM

But he's not happy at all with the optics.
Basically he bought it for his neck/back, and the angle adjustment of the eyepieces works great but the stereoscopic view is really bad.
I can't imagine it to be a monoscopic microscope, but looking at it's construction and what he shows of the objective it could be a common main objective stereo microscope where they used a lens way too small or got the angular travel of the view all wrong or something like that, which pretty much defies using a stereo microscope of course.
Normall common main objective is only found in really expensive stereo microscopes and all the cheap ones are greenough, and apparently it's not that easy to get it right for a very low budget, even for the chineze 

He also explains a lot about reflections he sees in the view. So I guess coming back from the lit object into the objective but at a different angle than the direct light. At some point I also thought to see incredibe chromatic distortion (sadly there's not a lot of image footage through the microscope/camera), but that could also be reflections or coloration of light bouncing off the microscope itself on the object again as it's blue ffs. Why there are brands that make optical equipment in strong bright shiney colours instead of the usual mat white or black is beyond me....those mat black or white tints are chosen with a reason imho..

In a follow up video a month later, the same guy went back to his regular Amscope-style microscope (he explains it right there https://youtu.be/V8T1AxgGij0?t=50 ). Turns out instead of lenses, prisms and mirrors inside of the new microscope, it's just a digital camera and screen. The binocular optics are looking at the internal screen resulting in flat 2D image. So, they managed to make a "trinocular microscope" that's in fact a 2D digital microscope that requires a secondary camera to film the internal screen and record or output it on an external screen. That's big brain design right there.

[wraper]

Turns out instead of lenses, prisms and mirrors inside of the new microscope, it's just a digital camera and screen.

I'm quite sure this claim is an utter nonsense. First of all, there is a reflection from eyepieces into the camera. https://youtu.be/J_-mCUoYn3Q?t=530 Camera literally captures dude's face overlaid onto PCB image. Which is physically impossible if eyepieces show an image from the screen. Secondly, it would be expensive as fuck to implement it with any semi-reasonable image resolution, and especially in a way that would not be outright obvious. Just as VR headset struggle with that.

[ygi]

He did say he received comments from his viewers warning him about the scope being a digital camera inside after his first video and subsequently taking it apart himself to confirm it. Keeping in mind the guy's a repair professional with a channel aimed at like minded people, making up such claim for no reason would be a high risk no reward move.

[wraper]

He did say he received comments from his viewers warning him about the scope being a digital camera inside after his first video and subsequently taking it apart himself to confirm it. Keeping in mind the guy's a repair professional with a channel aimed at like minded people, making up such claim for no reason would be a high risk no reward move.

He would have actually shown the picture/video if it was like that. Also I provided a time stamped youtube link which proves that eyepieces and camera are optically connected together. And if it was like you say, it would need to be at least 3 times as expensive to not be very roughly pixelated. I watched a fraction of that video and I did not hear him saying he took it apart. He just talks nonsense without actually checking or giving a serious thought.

[jfiresto]

I watched the full video. Early on, he had convinced himself that he had bought an inexpensive CMO stereo microscope. After that, he appeared to project that understanding into what he was seeing, and perceived a non-existent stereoscopic effect. What he said made sense if you supposed, through very human, wishful thinking, his perception had gone off the rails. If you accepted that, you could even recognize a bit of cognitive dissonance sprouting in his conclusions.

I should have taken first year psychology in graduate school. I think it would have proved quite useful, then and now.

[PlainName]

Turns out instead of lenses, prisms and mirrors inside of the new microscope, it's just a digital camera and screen.

I'm quite sure this claim is an utter nonsense. First of all, there is a reflection from eyepieces into the camera.

Doesn't that indicate it more likely is a screen than it is not? If the eyepiece has an optical path to the screen then the screen can see out of the eyepiece. If the camera is looking at the same screen then it could easily see reflections in the screen of the eyepiece. Only if the camera was using a separate display would that not occur, and that would mean extra cost and space. (If the camera were built in them it could use the same source and the internal screen, but it seems to be an addon, so cannot.)

Edit: This would seem to suggest it is a screen: from the Mechanic Aliexpress advert here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009136127425.html

"Digital display magnification feedback". "Always forget the current magnification when working? Intelligent system, real-time display of the total magnification in the upper right corner of the large screen, no need to look down to find the scale,..."

(My emphasis)

[wraper]

Turns out instead of lenses, prisms and mirrors inside of the new microscope, it's just a digital camera and screen.

I'm quite sure this claim is an utter nonsense. First of all, there is a reflection from eyepieces into the camera.

Doesn't that indicate it more likely is a screen than it is not? If the eyepiece has an optical path to the screen then the screen can see out of the eyepiece. If the camera is looking at the same screen then it could easily see reflections in the screen of the eyepiece. Only if the camera was using a separate display would that not occur, and that would mean extra cost and space. (If the camera were built in them it could use the same source and the internal screen, but it seems to be an addon, so cannot.)

Lol what? Are you suggesting that scope has a camera for external monitor that's looking on an eyepiece screen displaying image captured by another camera?

[PlainName]

See my edit which your reply pre-empted.

[PlainName]

Are you suggesting that scope has a camera for external monitor that's looking on an eyepiece screen displaying image captured by another camera?

Yes, that would seem to be the case.

[wraper]

Are you suggesting that scope has a camera for external monitor that's looking on an eyepiece screen displaying image captured by another camera?

Yes, that would seem to be the case.

That would be expensive, ridiculous, and actually work very poorly due to moiré effect. Try capturing PC monitor (or another smartphone) with smartphones camera from a close distance and see how it will go. Not to say look on camera's location, sticking from the left side.

"Digital display magnification feedback". "Always forget the current magnification when working? Intelligent system, real-time display of the total magnification in the upper right corner of the large screen, no need to look down to find the scale,..."

It just overlays magnification value on the image. So it's more integrated than just adding an independent camera.