Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 164203 times)

Shock and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1350 on: May 24, 2020, 11:55:36 pm »
For me the price difference would be around $70. But looking at the videos I assumed I can hack something together:  https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=380
Does anyone know what kind of sensor is it ?
 

Online Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3416
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1351 on: May 25, 2020, 12:22:43 am »
Here is a quick guide to the differences:

Pace ADS200 (120W power)
All metal construction station, stand and handpiece, easy to use interface, clear and easy to read display, cheap and reliable tips which come in two series standard, and ultra (which have more mass). The handpiece is made from one piece of extruded aluminum, it's very robust, cool running and swapping tips is easy. Pace just released new MT200 tweezers for the station.

Hakko FX951 (75W power)
Plastic station, part metal stand, plastic handpiece, poor interface, small display, tips ok reliability but more expensive than Pace. Only takes standard tips. Handpiece is overly complex and feels like it could easily break while swapping tips. They have a dumb tip swapping method which requires you to buy more (dirt absorbing) sponge/plastic sleeves so there is a hidden expense. Has a key card system that will lock you out if you lose it and it sits right below buttons, the station beeps at you as well, both of these features are quite annoying. No tweezers run on the FX951.

So in summary there is no real reason you would buy the Hakko. The Pace is  faster, more powerful, cheaper to run and easier to use.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Online Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3416
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1352 on: May 25, 2020, 01:05:58 am »
For me the price difference would be around $70. But looking at the videos I assumed I can hack something together:  https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=380
Does anyone know what kind of sensor is it ?

If you are talking about the instant setback it's a micro switch and the cable attaches to the rear of the station. It's been discussed a few times in this thread and people have DIYed them. If you go back a few pages you can find photos.

If you are in the US look at buying from tequipment.net as eevblog gets a 6% discount code. The price difference with the instant setback stand version is $20 at the moment. TE also do free shipping so if you buy the station and the tips together at the one place it should be the cheapest.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:07:42 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline labjr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1353 on: May 25, 2020, 01:15:29 am »
For me the price difference would be around $70. But looking at the videos I assumed I can hack something together:  https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=380
Does anyone know what kind of sensor is it ?

In post #1233, a member showed how to use a simple low cost sensor module you can get on ebay for less than a dollar.

https://bit.ly/2WYR16X
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1354 on: May 25, 2020, 03:48:39 am »
Thanks, just placed an order.I think for the amount of work I do once in a while, a KSGER or other hakko clone would be more than enough but I though I would loose a discussion about ethics.
Back to the point, from the schematic it looks like any on/off switch would do either mechanical or optical, even maybe extrasensorial.  Shouldn't be a problem.
 
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5888
  • Country: ch
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1355 on: May 25, 2020, 05:46:31 am »
In that case, the Pace will literally last you a lifetime. (I’ve never even heard of a Pace station failing, even when severely abused!) Good choice!

I’m trying to figure out how to justify getting one for myself, despite having a perfectly adequate Ersa station already! 😂
 

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2428
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1356 on: May 25, 2020, 05:10:14 pm »
If buying the ADS200 today can use ebays 20% off coupon: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pace-ADS200-AccuDrive-Production-Soldering-Station-8007-0578/184278679885
Should come to ~$192 shipped in the US.



Hakko FX951 (75W power)
Plastic station, part metal stand, plastic handpiece, poor interface, small display, tips ok reliability but more expensive than Pace. Only takes standard tips. Handpiece is overly complex and feels like it could easily break while swapping tips. They have a dumb tip swapping method which requires you to buy more (dirt absorbing) sponge/plastic sleeves so there is a hidden expense. Has a key card system that will lock you out if you lose it and it sits right below buttons, the station beeps at you as well, both of these features are quite annoying. No tweezers run on the FX951.

So in summary there is no real reason you would buy the Hakko. The Pace is  faster, more powerful, cheaper to run and easier to use.

Not a hakko fanboy especially their handle, and I agree I'd buy the ADS. 
But I've used handpieces for years without issue, and I'm not sure why swapping the tip requires buying foam sleeves? If you are talking about the grip its made of some kind of rubber, it doesn't get dirty. Its possible to pop the top of the Hakko handle off, then grab the base of the tip to remove it, no sponge or tools are required at all. Compared to Pace/metcal where you need a silicone mat to grab the hot tip.

Hakko tips are much cheaper than Pace if you get the clones, or similar price for genuine ($15). Of course the more advanced T12 tips are more expensive, thats where Pace is cheaper. Quality of Pace tips is likely higher.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:11:21 pm by thm_w »
 

Offline E-D-P

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1357 on: May 25, 2020, 07:33:49 pm »
If buying the ADS200 today can use ebays 20% off coupon: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pace-ADS200-AccuDrive-Production-Soldering-Station-8007-0578/184278679885
Should come to ~$192 shipped in the US.

I just tried eBay's Memorial Day 20% discount code.  Sadly, it doesn't work for the ADS200 linked above.  That would have been a screaming deal...
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1358 on: May 25, 2020, 07:44:38 pm »
Yes, that's where I bought my from yesterday. No dice with the coupon though. The price is good anyway.
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1359 on: May 25, 2020, 09:35:15 pm »
Here is another project to make yourself an instant setback caddy if anyone is interested:
https://getgui.com/blog/diy/pace-instant-setback-cubby-simple-led-light-sensor-switch-circuit/
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2428
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1360 on: May 25, 2020, 10:12:55 pm »
I just tried eBay's Memorial Day 20% discount code.  Sadly, it doesn't work for the ADS200 linked above.  That would have been a screaming deal...

Thanks, I should have read closer.. coupon was for select sellers.. Hopefully they will have some more 15-20% off general use coupons in the future.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:16:05 pm by thm_w »
 

Online Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3416
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1361 on: May 25, 2020, 11:22:20 pm »
I wouldn't like to leave anyone with the impression that the sleeve system on the Hakko handpieces is either handy or well thought out. Even the Chinese don't want to copy it. :)

Believe it or not the Pace tip tool even though the name implies extra work, is in my opinion the best method out there. JBC users might disagree but put a few similar tips face down in their stand and the convenience is lost. With Metcal you had to turn off the stations, other stations have sleeves and collars.

Pace has keyed cartridge tips and it's still incredibly easy with the tip tool.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1362 on: May 27, 2020, 12:01:09 am »
I painstakingly went through I think all available here options. Most hobby level stations and irons are cheaper. But unless you are excited about new purchases often the ADS200 still comes on top.
KSGER: Questionable quality, which actually can kill you. Not grounded chassis, mains lugs are soldered directly to the PCB so they also act as a mechanical fixture... something I do not want to be bothered with when I am soldering. Besides an ethical issue about "borrowing" Hakko cartridges.
TS100. seems a bit flaky but again a good option if you plan to upgrade in a yer or two to what is better then.
TS80. Cartridges are $30 and very sparce. In long term the price difference will vanish if not get negative. I am also not sure on long term reliability.
All kind of direct Hakko clones I discarded without even looking.
I am left with Hakko 951 which is a toss but ADS is more powerful and much more user friendly.
 

Offline labjr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1363 on: May 29, 2020, 01:30:29 am »
Here is another project to make yourself an instant setback caddy if anyone is interested:
https://getgui.com/blog/diy/pace-instant-setback-cubby-simple-led-light-sensor-switch-circuit/

The Arduino sensor module seems like the simplest solution, though I haven't tried it.
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1364 on: June 01, 2020, 08:35:47 pm »
So here it is, I think it is a beauty :-) Definitely all metal makes it so much different from the contemporary oversees, wink wink :-) stuff.
 
The following users thanked this post: Shock

Offline tygersmoke

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1365 on: June 02, 2020, 12:47:01 am »
Hello,

First post from long time lurker, recently signed up.

I am a hobbyist, and I was looking for a replacement for my low end Weller station. I fairly quickly zero-ed in on the Pace ADS200; after reading all 55(!) pages here, it seemed to tick all the boxes once I got past sticker shock. I felt glad I wasn't one of those early adopters back in 2018. I had originally intended to spend about AU$250, but ended up spending a bit over AU$600 on the Pace from the Australian distributor after adding a few tips to the order.

As the postie put the package down, I could hear an ominous rattle. Sure enough, as I picked it up, "rattle rattle rattle, popcorn sack". It turns out that they had just chucked the tips in and they were floating in the breeze....they were in their protective tubes, but still not something I would've done.

I noticed the box had already been opened and resealed, along with the inner plastic bag. I assume it was because the local distributor had upgraded the firmware to version 1.4 (it is 1.4 on start-up), though you'd think/hope in mid 2020 it would be current production.

Anyway, stuck in the 1/8" chisel tip. It powered up quickly and took on solder in a most encouraging manner, and also subsequently went into standby as it should.

First thing which seems odd is temperature adjust. 'Up' with left button and 'down' with right; I can't think of any other product that I've used that does that, though it's just something to get used to.

My first little play was a hack of my computer speakers. I dremelled the amp/passive crossover board as the amp had failed, and I plan to just use 'em as passives. Most of the brittle through hole speaker leads had come off at the board, so desolder, pull out the stubs, re-tin and resolder. Too easy! The desolder went O.K., but once there was sfa solder on the mask, the tip seemed unable to heat the stranded wire so I could pull it out. The same went for tinning the leads. I maxed it out, but still struggled. O.K., you asked for it....time to break out the big 13/64" chisel, and then we'll see what's what! The tip went in with a different feel to the other, and the display showed the dreaded 'CHP'. I was gutted. I have subsequently got it to energise about 30% of the time.

I got the shits with it and broke out the Weller, which finished the pissy little job tout de suite.

I made the decision to go with local distro rather than Paceworldwide to support aussie business, and the price was slightly cheaper. I had assumed that in June 2020, all the tip issues would have been resolved, worldwide stocks of the dodgy tips would've been recalled, and any control unit being sold would be current production. Poor old backwater Australia....

This is a really disappointing beginning, though I daresay I will sort it out with the distributor, but what? I keep sending tips back and forth to them until I luck onto a good one or they use up all their old stock?

I've thrown a tea towel over the unit (part of my kitchen bench is my workbench, haha!) 'cause I don't even want to look at it until I process this disappointment and formulate an email to the distributor.

Do you think in regards to the 1/8" tip, I may need to modify my technique to suit a modern tip? It took on solder beautifully, and as long as there was a pool on the traces, had no issues melting it. The tip was 'wet' but not 'blobby' when I was attempting to tin or remove the strands from the board holes, but unless I applied the solder direct to the tip not the work, I just got nowhere.

Sorry that my first post is a whinge,
Phil

« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 01:16:31 am by tygersmoke »
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1366 on: June 02, 2020, 04:28:42 am »
Sorry to hear your predicament. I just got mine yesterday. There was no seal of any kind but the box obviously was never opened. They just make the packaging that it would be very difficult to open without leaving tracks.
I do not know how distributors work in Australia but I could not imagine that someone would go through the trouble of replacing the chips just to upgrade the version unless it was some kind of safety recall. So I would just call your distributor and ask about the open boxes.
About the tips: I do not think that rattling them around is very healthy either.
 
The following users thanked this post: tygersmoke

Online Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3416
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1367 on: June 02, 2020, 05:34:53 am »
They were either putting in the 1.4 firmware or were checking it over before shipping. As far as I'm aware though there hasn't been any changes in the station. Pace did jump onto the tip problem straight away, may be a chance a few are still out there in the wild. But either way just get in contact with the distributor and they will sort it out.

If you need help with soldering let us know. The old Wellers do get quite hot, depending how to you approached things a smaller tip, no flux or not establishing a small thermal bridge before soldering may have made it more challenging.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 05:46:40 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: tygersmoke

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2428
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1368 on: June 02, 2020, 09:21:03 pm »
Anyway, stuck in the 1/8" chisel tip. It powered up quickly and took on solder in a most encouraging manner, and also subsequently went into standby as it should.
...
 I maxed it out, but still struggled. O.K., you asked for it....time to break out the big 13/64" chisel, and then we'll see what's what! The tip went in with a different feel to the other, and the display showed the dreaded 'CHP'. I was gutted. I have subsequently got it to energise about 30% of the time.

Were these the normal tips or the thicker "power" tips?
1/8 (3mm) is a fairly small tip so it could be hard to get a decent amount of power flowing through it with this type of station. 

Although this sounds like more of a flux/surface issue as mentioned above.
 
The following users thanked this post: tygersmoke

Offline tygersmoke

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1369 on: June 03, 2020, 02:16:14 am »
Thanks for your responses. I will contact the distributor about the dud and keep my fingers crossed.

The Weller is a 50W analogue controlled unit, 0-100% scale, which was on "70%" to do the job with a 2mm tip, so should have been comfortably outgunned by the Pace.

Yeah, I guess I will add more solder to the tip prior to tinning, but it was only 20 gauge or so stranded copper. The 1/8" tip was not the beefier one, but I was still surprised that it was just unable to tin the wire until I had loaded up the tip with fresh solder.

Regards,
Phil
 

Online pgo

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 16
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1370 on: June 03, 2020, 08:53:18 am »
Hi,
You should also consider that the older Weller tips are usually intended for leaded solder and hence have a thinner plating.
The more recent Pace irons are meant to have a thicker iron(?) plating for unleaded solder.
I noticed a similar difference but maybe it's an unfair comparison of the tip plating rather than the irons.
 

Offline labjr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1371 on: June 03, 2020, 04:37:34 pm »
Hi,
You should also consider that the older Weller tips are usually intended for leaded solder and hence have a thinner plating.
The more recent Pace irons are meant to have a thicker iron(?) plating for unleaded solder.
I noticed a similar difference but maybe it's an unfair comparison of the tip plating rather than the irons.

Regardless of tip plating, the Pace should beat the pants off of the Weller!
 

Online Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3416
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1372 on: June 04, 2020, 01:07:24 am »
I just did a test and included some detail if you want to reproduce it. I used a couple of 1/8" (3.18mm) 1130 series tips. Tried different temps 320C, 350C and 370C (my presets on this station) with 63/37 rosin core solder.

Stripped some old cable (0.75mm ~20 gauge) without cutting back (normally I would expose fresh copper) cleaned my iron tip and placed a small fillet of solder on the tip face. Put the wire end to the tip and touched it with fresh solder to get a good thermal bridge. Waited a few seconds, soldered a little up the wire then back down from the insulation to prevent migration into the insulation, came out looking like a soldered wire.

Next I reflowed some large lead free soldered inductor pads on PCB. Cleaned the tip and touched a tiny amount of solder to the end, placed the tip to the edge of the pad waited a second and touched a little solder to the junction in bursts to establish reflow without loading down the tip temp. Then applied solder outwards around the pad until full reflow was established. Made some shitty lead free joints look a bit better.

Additional flux would have turned on easy mode in both cases and get the best results. The tip was slightly undersized for soldering the wire (it's just easier to do with a larger tip) but I think as long as you wait a couple of seconds to allow the wire to come to temp, no problems.

The tip was definitely undersized for the inductor pad, temperature and technique were important. If I were to remove the solder and redo the joint with fresh solder I wouldn't need external flux as the board was in good condition and clean. As long as a reasonable temp is being used and you are methodical even an undersize tip held in the right position can get good results you just need to use the solder wire flux to your advantage and wait a few secs for the heat to soak in.

Here is a before and after of the first pad I did. I wasn't trying for nice looking joints but the tip got hot and soldered.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 01:12:10 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: tygersmoke

Online Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3416
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1373 on: June 04, 2020, 01:48:01 am »
Here are some examples of how flux makes a difference when soldering.
 


Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: tygersmoke

Offline tygersmoke

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1374 on: June 04, 2020, 04:19:53 am »
Hello Shock,

Thanks for taking the time to do that and post the information, it's appreciated! Time for me to go back to school methinks, and I'll make use of that dremelled amplifier board to do it! I've likely been blundering along all these years with a blunt instrument, (not just me!) and now with a fine piece of equipment, this old dog needs to learn new tricks. It reminds me of a Choice magazine review of espresso machines where they praised the likes of ALDI and Sunbeam, but trashed the La Pavoni Europiccola as worst of the bunch. It is a real task to master it....do it wrong and you will have a truly disgusting espresso and it will sneeze the grounds all over your kitchen, but do it right and it creates a god shot.

And to top it all off, I set it up ready to email a photo to the distributor with the faulty tip in and the "CHP' on the display, and it is now working, say, 9 times out of 10. It still engages differently to the other tips; instead of the smooth docking, it does a kind of 'snick-click', hopefully not wearing anything out over time. I'm thinking that covering it with the tea towel for a few days gave it some good ju-ju.....

Thanks again.,
Phil
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf