Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 162828 times)

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Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1375 on: June 04, 2020, 08:24:50 am »
I'd be contacting the distributor and get another cartridge, not worth messing around with it.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline tygersmoke

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1376 on: June 04, 2020, 11:30:00 pm »
Yeah, I probably should; every time it 'snicks' into place, I'd be wincing a little.

By the way, I never realised that soldering flux for electronics was a thing; I have always relied on the rosin in the core of the solder. If I had ever seen separate flux, I would have assumed it's the stuff plumbers use! So a late journey begins....
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1377 on: June 08, 2020, 11:10:38 pm »
This area has more related Pace posts, so we moved the thread here today. I don't know if the Pace factory has ramped-up since the Covid shutdown, but I'll send them the new link so they'll drop-in on chats now and then  :-+

Difficult year for many companies, stay safe everyone!
[attachimg=1]
 
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Offline dman777

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1378 on: June 17, 2020, 10:54:55 pm »
Hi,

I got my Pace ADS200 and was doing a test run. I didn't solder anything, I just plugged in a non performance tip and let it sit. I brought the temp down to 500. It would stay at 500 most of the time, but sometimes it would drop to 476 and then go back to 500 without me doing anything.
Also, while I was holding it outside the stand it would do the same drop occasionally(holding it but not soldering anything).

Is that normal?

BTW, really nice unit!










 

Offline totalnoob

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1379 on: June 18, 2020, 12:08:10 am »
This area has more related Pace posts, so we moved the thread here today. I don't know if the Pace factory has ramped-up since the Covid shutdown, but I'll send them the new link so they'll drop-in on chats now and then  :-+

Difficult year for many companies, stay safe everyone!
[attachimg=1]

Is she head of the Safety Department?  :-DD :palm: :wtf:
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1380 on: June 18, 2020, 11:58:52 am »
I got my Pace ADS200 and was doing a test run. I didn't solder anything, I just plugged in a non performance tip and let it sit. I brought the temp down to 500. It would stay at 500 most of the time, but sometimes it would drop to 476 and then go back to 500 without me doing anything.
Also, while I was holding it outside the stand it would do the same drop occasionally(holding it but not soldering anything).

Likely the detected thermocouple temp, especially if a couple of heat cycles will warm that specific tip up at low temp. Though they improved this on firmware 1.4 from what I can tell the ADS200 tends to not smooth, average or hide the measurements as much as some other stations do.

An extreme opposite to this would be hiding all the temperature fluctuations from the user who would otherwise think their station has perfect performance/regulation during soldering and tip and thermocouple temps are always the same, in reality they are almost never the same.

Assuming you have checked obvious things like setback and minimum temp settings etc, you could probably test this by just causing that specific tip a slightly faster heat loss and see if the regulation kicks in. That is a low temperature for soldering though, and when a clean tip is loaded with solder or you create a solder bridge I expect the control led will flash amber to indicate it's going back to set temp. If it's green it means it's at set temp. If it's off it means it's the station is in setback or turned off.

If you are concerned however just contact Pace. Provide them as much detail as you can, just keep in mind that if the tip is loaded with solder the station may auto correct for variances as it seemingly does for different geometries. I don't know the special sauce so there may be something perfectly normal occurring in software.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1381 on: July 01, 2020, 01:51:34 pm »
I'm inching closer to picking up an ADS200, and I was going to ask for comments on my choice of tips, but I got slightly derailed.

I know Shock has mentioned the 1130-0012-P1 and 1130-0013-P1 chisel tips, but if I go to the Pace Worldwide website, navigate to All Products | Soldering Iron Tips, then use the drop down on the right to select TD-200 AccuDrive Tips, neither of these two tips show up.  They do show up if I specifically search for them.

Anyone know if there's a master list of tips that I can browse through?  I went through the above list of TD-200 Tips from above and have come up with this spreadsheet, sorting by shape and standard/performance.  Note that I haven't added the missing 1130-0012-P1 and 1130-0013-P1 yet.

Another minor nitpick about the website (sorry Aaron!), the product pages for the 1131-0001-P1 and 1131-0002-P1 appear to use photos of the standard tips as their main images.  The smaller thumbnail at the bottom seems to show the correct Ultra Performance one.

All that aside, does anyone know what the difference is between the 1130-0032-P1 Miniwave® (3.05mm) and the 1130-0049-P1 MINIWAVE® SPECIAL Tip?  My best guess is the bevel is 180 deg apart on the two.  And has anyone (Shock?) used the 1130-0050-P1 1/128" Conical Special (0.20mm)?  I'm interested in it as something to clean up QFN type packages after soldering by hand with paste and hot air.
 
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Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1382 on: July 01, 2020, 05:25:38 pm »
Good work on the list.

As far as I'm aware "special" denotes a tip geometry requested by a customer, 1130-0049-P1 does look flipped but there could be other small differences. I don't have that specific tip as it was listed after I got the majority of my miniwaves.

You should be able to request a list and details direct from Pace. We only have the last list Aaron sent us on the forums here. If you do might pay to also include details about any anomalies you found with the website. There is a contact form on the website or use the support@paceworldwide.com address. If you get a current list feel free to share it here as an attachment as others will probably be interested.

Having a tip the same size as a pin or pad is not always the best solution for bridges as you can redistribute or reflow multiple pads with wider tips that have better heating. Small tips tend to work poorly with larger wick as you are heating the wick, pin, pad and pcb all at once.

So for this reason no one tip will work optimally in all situations. It's easier to have variety of sizes that will be dual purpose. My core set is odd sized chisels, one fine pointy, hook, knife and miniwaves for drag soldering. The only tips you probably won't use for bridges are the larger chisels but they are useful for high current traces, heatsinks and tinning etc. Otherwise all are good for removing or redistribute solder with a clean tip, flux and wick of an appropriate size and is a flexible set for soldering.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 09:20:36 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1383 on: July 01, 2020, 08:27:13 pm »
Here is the list of Accudrive cartridges Aaron posted for us in 2019 (see attachment at the bottom) last time I counted which was probably this list, the website and checking tequipment.net I got somewhere around 62.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 09:05:57 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1384 on: July 02, 2020, 08:10:49 am »
Thanks Shock, I forgot about that pdf.

So, under All Products | Soldering Iron Tips, there are 54 tips - 38 standard, 16 ultra performance.
Searching for 1130-0 (standard tip prefix?) returns 43 results, and for 1131 returns 16.  (It looks like 1130-10 returns all the MT-200 tips.)
That pdf lists 43 standard tips, and 17 ultra performance ones....

I've added the 5 "missing" standard tips to the spreadsheet.  They don't show the part number when doing a search for 1130-0.  And I can't find 1131-0019-P1 on the Pace website, but a Google search shows that vendors do list it.  That brings us to a total of 60 tips, so I'm wondering what I've missed.
 

Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1385 on: July 02, 2020, 08:18:19 am »
Having a tip the same size as a pin or pad is not always the best solution for bridges as you can redistribute or reflow multiple pads with wider tips that have better heating. Small tips tend to work poorly with larger wick as you are heating the wick, pin, pad and pcb all at once.

My plan for a long thin tip and a QFN is not to hold the tip with the axis perpendicular to the QFN side, but roughly parallel, and wipe it along.  So I'm not just using the tip of the, uh, tip, but the length of it.  I've used a small chisel in the past for this, but the issue is the ones I've used have never been quite fine enough to get into that corner between chip side and PCB easily.  I'm not sure if this will actually work the way I plan though.

Did you pick up the 1130-0050-P1?  I think it was on one of your lists in an earlier post, and Aaron mentioned it was a modification of the 1130-0036-P1 as requested by a customer.  Was hoping to hear how you find it.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1386 on: July 02, 2020, 03:32:16 pm »
Sounds to me like what you want is a smaller PLCC blade. Maybe it’s something Pace can be cajoled into making, since they already have a PLCC blade.
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1387 on: July 02, 2020, 11:32:11 pm »
Yes I have that tip and also the bent conical as well plus others. Use a clean fine tip and flux and either touch or drag a few times down the edge to pick it up or redistribute it or try a ball of molten solder.

If you are spending a lot of time reworking mistakes then you should look at how much paste you are using and how you apply it (such as less paste on the die attach pad) or use a smaller sphere diameter. If you have too much paste on the pad and press down on the package during reflow it creates bridges.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1388 on: July 03, 2020, 09:51:00 am »
By the way don't read too much into me getting the special tip version, if I recall correctly I looked at the Intelliheat series tips which share a lot of the same geometries and didn't notice a difference. I probably ordered the special version just for fun. I looked at both tonight up close and still can't tell.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline jivaei

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1389 on: July 11, 2020, 01:19:32 am »
Just received this station from TEquipment. Are some of the tips supposed to look used? The second one (from the left) looks ok. But the tips of other three are brownish in color (probably from heating) and has some solder on the tips.

Edit: Yes
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg2720082/?topicseen#msg2720082
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 02:33:27 am by jivaei »
 

Offline helius

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1390 on: July 11, 2020, 03:00:28 am »
It is a requirement for soldering tips to be factory tinned, as the iron plating would otherwise corrode in the atmosphere. All soldering tips you buy have tin on them.

PACE tests the AccuDrive cartridges at their factory to prevent shipping D.O.A. units. This can discolor the tips slightly.
See the comment here
 
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Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1391 on: July 12, 2020, 08:27:32 am »
Sounds to me like what you want is a smaller PLCC blade. Maybe it’s something Pace can be cajoled into making, since they already have a PLCC blade.

Would that be the knife blade you're referring to?  I'd be hesitant to ask them about a special design since my estimated requirement for such a tip would be just 1.  :p

It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had a chance to ask Pace about a list of available tips.  Hopefully that's be next on my to do list.

I'm doing assembly by hand, since these are either 1 off units or hobby projects, and work with a syringe of paste and a hot air station.  With QFN parts I try to err on the side of caution and would rather put a bit too little paste on the centre pad rather than too much.  But getting just the right amount on the leads is a problem for me and I usually do a quick touch up just to be sure.  PLCC / Knife blade aside, any recommendations for a good tip geometry for touch up?  Aside from that special tip I mentioned, I was thinking a fine chisel (say 0.8 mm) might also work, and would be more (use) flexible.  Without having the tip in front of me I find it difficult to get a feel for how small they actually are.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1392 on: July 12, 2020, 11:46:23 am »
Yes, the knife. Just maybe ask if they’re planning to release a smaller one. (Look at JBC for some examples of smaller knife tips.)

Otherwise, I’d use a miniwave tip. Remember that especially with flux, the tip doesn’t have to be as small as the pads.
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1393 on: July 13, 2020, 01:59:56 am »
Here is a video I found which shows a conical being used on QFN. Hard to tell from the angle but it looks close to 0.40mm and gives you an idea of tip size.

This is not the best demonstration of reflow as cleaning and flux application weren't fully shown. In my opinion it was rushed a little and messed around with too much. He did mentioned it's a prototype though, he was probably planning to rework it regardless.

Having exposed terminal edges and lands will make it easier to do touch ups. As I said if you have a selection that includes a couple of fine tips you can't really go wrong. Even in a worse case scenario you can fix most problems by cleaning, using flux and preheating if the board is cold or hard to work on with fine tips.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline exe

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1394 on: July 13, 2020, 02:18:51 pm »
I managed to solder qfn just with an iron, without using hotair :). Can't really recommend that as it's a bit of PITA.

I feel like the IC on the video got quite some heating, but I understand why he did soldering twice: to get confidence it's soldered properly.
 

Online Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1395 on: July 14, 2020, 02:23:31 am »
I just found what he used and I was correct it was a 0.4mm long conical (0.5mm pitch gave it away) tip temp was 700F/370C. Flux was MG Chemicals 8341 and the solder was Kester Rosin Core 63/37.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1396 on: July 14, 2020, 02:16:51 pm »
Thanks Shock.  That's pretty much how I've been touching up my QFN parts, except I've been using a chisel.  My aim was to try and keep my selection of tips to a minimum, because I can well imagine I'd end up with tips I'd never use otherwise.

(Edit: word missing)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 09:54:01 am by knotlogic »
 

Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1397 on: July 30, 2020, 12:46:09 pm »
So I got in contact with Pace, asking about the availability of tips, and they sent me an updated product sheet (attached below).  It includes the "missing" 1131-0019-P1, but this sheet is now missing the 1131-0032-P1.  (I've mentioned that to them.)

There is apparently very little difference in the geometry between the 1130-0032-P1 Miniwave® (3.05mm) and the 1130-0049-P1 MINIWAVE® SPECIAL Tip, and it was suggested the regular one would do me fine.

And they have no current plans for a smaller knife tip, but would be open to hearing from me if I had something particular in mind.

I've updated the spreadsheet, all in all there are 60 tips available at the moment that I know of.

Could I get some feedback on my tip selection?  I'm thinking of getting the following:

- A general purpose chisel that should handle 80% of what I do.
1130-0019-P1   1/16" 30˚ Chisel (1.59mm)

- A fine chisel.  Something for more delicate work that the general purpose chisel is a bit too cumbersome for.  I use mostly 0805 and 0603 parts.  Either:
1130-0012-P1   1/32" 30˚ Chisel (0.80mm), or
1130-0016-P1   3/64" 30˚ Bent Chisel (1.20mm)
The bent tip would be nice, but I'm leaning more towards the 0.8 mm since this is an alternative to the 1.59mm tip.

- A fine conical.  Mostly for QFN touch up work.
1130-0002-P1   1/64" Conical Sharp (0.40mm), or
1130-0004-P1   1/64" Conical Sharp Extended (0.40mm)
Same tip geometry, but I'm wondering if the extended is easier to work with.  On the flip side it would mean a (marginally) longer working distance and I wonder how thermal properties compare.

- A MiniWave.
1130-0032-P1   Miniwave® (3.05mm), or
1130-0035-P1   Angled MiniWave Surface Mount Installation Tip (2.11mm)
With the smaller parts nowadays, I'm wondering if the 2.11mm tip is the better option here.  There is a 1.10mm micro-wave tip, but I think that might be too small.

- And finally, a large tip for heavy soldering.
1131-0010-P1   13/64" Chisel (5.15mm)


 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1398 on: July 30, 2020, 03:24:13 pm »
What I don’t see is any chisel in the 2-4mm range. I use my 2.4mm and 3.2mm chisels a lot, for larger THT components and connectors where the 1.6mm is too small (but where a 5mm would be much too big).

I’d also seriously consider the 1.1mm mini wave, I bet it’d be better at cleaning up QFNs than a conical tip.

I have a 0.4mm chisel (which is almost indistinguishable from a conical) I got for SMD touchup, and I practically never use it.  I find my 2.3mm wave tip and the knife blade to be more useful, generally.

I suspect the 1.1mm and 2.1mm mini wave tips would be phenomenal for the 0805 and 0603 parts, too. (I find wave tips to be useful well beyond their intended purpose of drag soldering gull-wing ICs.)
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1399 on: July 30, 2020, 08:14:01 pm »
1.59mm chisel is already quite small, and is fine enough for 0603's.
I use a bent fine conical for small mod rework, straight would probably work too. Don't overthink it.
 
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