Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 155951 times)

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Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1400 on: July 31, 2020, 05:51:21 am »
What I don’t see is any chisel in the 2-4mm range. I use my 2.4mm and 3.2mm chisels a lot, for larger THT components and connectors where the 1.6mm is too small (but where a 5mm would be much too big).

I’d also seriously consider the 1.1mm mini wave, I bet it’d be better at cleaning up QFNs than a conical tip.

I have a 0.4mm chisel (which is almost indistinguishable from a conical) I got for SMD touchup, and I practically never use it.  I find my 2.3mm wave tip and the knife blade to be more useful, generally.

I suspect the 1.1mm and 2.1mm mini wave tips would be phenomenal for the 0805 and 0603 parts, too. (I find wave tips to be useful well beyond their intended purpose of drag soldering gull-wing ICs.)

I actually find a 1.5mm tip sufficient for the THT work I do, which is why I skipped over anything larger.  The 5mm chisel would be for larger SMD power inductors (which is also the only ultra performance tip among my choices).  I probably should clarify that I do use a ~1.5mm tip already for 0805s and 0603s.  It works fine, but I thought it might be useful to have a finer option.  Of course another option is to drop the smaller chisel entirely from my list, and pick up another tip later as needs demand.

Re: Using a miniwave for QFN touch up - the person I spoke to at Pace suggested the same as an alternative to a knife blade.  I am curious as to how well it works with the 1.1mm tip.  I would have expected that there's a lower limit past which the geometry isn't as effective.

Completely agree with you that too fine a chisel is near indistinguishable from a conical.  I've come across that myself before, but so long ago that I don't remember how small the chisel was.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1401 on: July 31, 2020, 06:20:56 am »
If you aren't doing rework then base your Miniwave tip selection on the pin/lead length and clearance. If you look at the Pace Miniwave videos on youtube it gives you an idea of different contact angles. The 2mm and 3mm Miniwaves are somewhat interchangeable due to the nature of drag soldering, but technically it's always going to be use the best tip for the job.

I'd probably go for the standard 0.40mm conical, should have slightly better thermal performance. As I mentioned earlier I prefer a selection of chisels, and since the carts are easy to swap over it's an enjoyable experience. But if you don't think you will use them any time soon it's no big deal.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1402 on: August 14, 2020, 11:42:15 pm »
Not sure if this has been documented yet, photos of handle are attached.
NTC is 2.4k at room temperature, slightly unusual value.

Handle is very nicely made. Small flex at the tip when forced, ~1mm or so.
I still say Metcal MX-H1-AV is the best handle, its lighter, softer grip, and has less flex, but can rotate due to no tab (Pace will not rotate). Of course more expensive too.
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1403 on: August 15, 2020, 12:03:17 am »
Well you can't just change the handle. You have to use one system or the other.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1404 on: August 15, 2020, 04:13:54 am »
A lot of the design in the Pace handle has been around 20 years in the original TD100 but the most significant change was going to aluminum.

Couple of advantages is the cable can be replaced quickly as a part, but looks easy to repair if required. You won't run into problems swapping tips on the fly, Metcals are meant to be turned off before changing. Pace also gives you a tip tool for swapping tips in addition to the silicon pad.

The key seats the Pace cartridges into the middle of the handle instead of the socket so there is little chance of over inserting the tip and there is minimal thermal contact, which Pace markets as "cool touch". Having the tip rotation fixed I think is desirable using large blades and QFP style tips, so I don't see a problem there.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1405 on: August 17, 2020, 06:23:39 pm »
A lot of the design in the Pace handle has been around 20 years in the original TD100 but the most significant change was going to aluminum.

Couple of advantages is the cable can be replaced quickly as a part, but looks easy to repair if required. You won't run into problems swapping tips on the fly, Metcals are meant to be turned off before changing. Pace also gives you a tip tool for swapping tips in addition to the silicon pad.

The key seats the Pace cartridges into the middle of the handle instead of the socket so there is little chance of over inserting the tip and there is minimal thermal contact, which Pace markets as "cool touch". Having the tip rotation fixed I think is desirable using large blades and QFP style tips, so I don't see a problem there.

Yes the fixed rotation is a clear advantage. Its an added cost to the handle machining + tip manufacturing process.
Agree about the design being easy to repair, cable could be swapped out without much work.

Well you can't just change the handle. You have to use one system or the other.

True.
There is some opportunity to make custom handles if you can find the appropriate connector. The Pace connector is very similar to a standard T12 clone plug, but the contacts are in a different spot and diameter is thinner so its not easy. The pace tip fits nicely in the metcal handle, until you reach the tab.

Outer tip diameter:
- T12 5.50mm
- Pace 4.70mm
- Metcal ~4.7mm
 

Offline shivramk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1406 on: August 29, 2020, 03:37:04 pm »
I just received my pace ads 200 today. I must say it is really well built. When I turn it on though the transformer makes a buzzing noise. It's not very loud, but certainly loud enough to bother. The intensity of the noise increases when the hand piece is drawing power. I wanted to check if this noise is to be expected. My station seems to be working fine otherwise. I don't see mention of the noise issue in this thread, nor in any reviews that I've seen. This is making me wonder if I have a defective piece. I did come across another post on this forum https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-ads200-transformer-audible-noise/ which reported the same issue, but it doesn't have any replies. Has anybody else encountered similar behaviour?
 

Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1407 on: August 30, 2020, 10:39:59 am »
So, my turn to join the ADS200 club.  My station arrived yesterday:

[attach=1]

It came shipped as a box in a box, so no damage to the inner box and the contents looked pristine.  And yes, it's packing v1.4 firmware.

That was the good part.

The bad part is two of the four tips I ordered give me the CHP error.  :(  I ordered two chisel tips, a conical and a miniwave, with both chisels giving me the CHP error.  The other two appear to work, but I didn't bring them up to temperature all the way, since I was swapping between them all trying to see how bad the problem is.  I think the problem is the two chisel tips won't seat fully.  With the tips inserted in the handpiece I measured the heater pins on the connector on the other end.  (Thanks thm_w for posting that photo a few posts back!)  The faulty tips read open circuit, while the other two read 4-5 Ohms.

I also spent a fair bit of time taking measurements, and comparing the chisels to the conical, the conical sits about 4mm deeper into the handpiece than the chisels.  (The miniwave is a longer tip, and I was already fairly sure of things by this point so I didn't bother comparing it.)  I haven't tried forcing the chisels in, but I'm definitely using a bit more force than the other two with no success.  With the conical and miniwave, they just slide in smoothly.

My next step will be to contact Pace.  I guess I'll have to send the handpiece and faulty tips back, which will be a pain, but we'll see.

Edit: Spelling mistake
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 10:53:45 am by knotlogic »
 
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Offline knotlogic

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1408 on: August 30, 2020, 11:09:35 am »
Also, on the topic of handpieces - I think a fair amount has been said about the short working distance of the ADS200 handpiece, and I was curious as to how it stacks up against my Metcal.  Surprisingly the Metcal still has a shorter tip to grip distance, but not by much.  The attached photo shows a MX-RM3E handpiece with a STTC-038 1.5mm chisel tip, and the difference in that photo is about 10mm.  And, that's before I encountered the CHP problem.  So the Pace tip should seat another ~4mm into the handpiece.

The Pace handpiece is still shorter though (although you could argue that's down to the cable relief), you get 120W of power compared to the 40W of the Metcal, and the ability to set any temperature you want.  And given the difference in working distance is only 6mm, I doubt that's really noticeable.

I still say Metcal MX-H1-AV is the best handle, its lighter, softer grip, and has less flex, but can rotate due to no tab (Pace will not rotate). Of course more expensive too.

I should note that I've never had any issues with tip rotation on my Metcal.  I think you'd need to be putting quite a bit of force on it for that to happen.

One interesting thing that I haven't seen mentioned (or I've missed it) is that the 3 depressions(?), grips(?), on the ADS200 handpiece aren't spaced equally apart.  Fitting the angled miniwave tip in , it's obvious that they designed it to have thumb and forefinger in the two placed closest together.  But when using other straight tips, this isn't obvious.

Edit: Typo
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 10:54:51 am by knotlogic »
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1409 on: September 01, 2020, 05:30:30 pm »
Also, on the topic of handpieces - I think a fair amount has been said about the short working distance of the ADS200 handpiece, and I was curious as to how it stacks up against my Metcal.  Surprisingly the Metcal still has a shorter tip to grip distance, but not by much.  The attached photo shows a MX-RM3E handpiece with a STTC-038 1.5mm chisel tip, and the difference in that photo is about 10mm.  And, that's before I encountered the CHP problem.  So the Pace tip should seat another ~4mm into the handpiece.

Yes I measure ~42mm from end of metal grip to tip of iron for ads200, vs 35mm on the older metcal. So about 6-7mm.
MX-H1-AV handle is even shorter still at 32mm.

As you point out, 120W vs 40W, so that is going to be much tougher to have the tip that close when its producing more waste heat.

Quote
I should note that I've never had any issues with tip rotation on my Metcal.  I think you'd need to be putting quite a bit of force on it for that to happen.

Its not an issue unless you are really pushing on it yes, or using something like a bent conical, where the force is magnified as its off center.

Quote
One interesting thing that I haven't seen mentioned (or I've missed it) is that the 3 depressions(?), grips(?), on the ADS200 handpiece aren't spaced equally apart.  Fitting the angled miniwave tip in , it's obvious that they designed it to have thumb and forefinger in the two placed closest together.  But when using other straight tips, this isn't obvious.

Good to see that the did consider the rotational position of the tips in the design. The rubber is too hard though IMO.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 05:34:42 pm by thm_w »
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1410 on: September 01, 2020, 06:37:09 pm »
I may be different than everyone else, but I don't need the shortest tip to grip distance. I actually prefer it to be longer sometimes. Especially when I'm working on point to point wired tube amps because there's no place to rest my hand while soldering. I also like the thicker spongy grip on my old Weller.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1411 on: October 04, 2020, 09:54:35 am »
Just noticed this on Paces website looks like the Accudrive series version of the MBT 350 3 channel station is coming.

  • MBT 450 Multi-Channel Soldering & Rework System (available early next year)

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline mcconkeyb

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1412 on: October 31, 2020, 06:31:52 am »
Hello Pace Owners,
My 1 year old ADS200 has been working great, but I've noticed an random intermittent fault. The problem has occured 3 times during the past 5 months.

The problem is that when the station is turned on, the LED display is all screwed up. It displays random segments and while it changes you can tell that the processor is trying to display the correct information the LED segments that are lit, are quite random. Then after the station has been on for a while, a few seconds to few minutes, the display seems to 'smarten' up and displays the correct information. Turning the station off and then on, while it is in crazy display mode, does not fix the problem, but turning the station off and then on after it has fixed itself leads to normal behavior. I'm concerned as yesterday's display failure took several minutes to return to normal.

I'm wondering if anyone else has seen or heard of this problem, and if anyone knows what causes the problem? Now that the unit is just over the 1 year warranty, I'm wondering how much of a pain its going to be to track down this problem and then solve it?
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1413 on: October 31, 2020, 08:47:19 am »
I'd contact Pace first, but one easy thing to try is disconnecting the mains and removing and reseating the socketed IC. It's possibly heat related, intermittent and once it warms makes better contact. Observe ESD safety and the IC orientation, if you have magnification you could inspect the PCB, IC and socket for anything obvious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_extractor

I assume you are on firmware 1.4? Another thing I'd try at some point is take note of any settings you had then change all the config so it's overwritten (in case of corruption). Low chance of it being software but easy fix.

By holding the program key when powering on, I think the station pauses on the firmware version, this may aid in isolating the problem. If I get weird power on problems with anything I usually check power cables, ensure it's plugged into outlet properly, try a different outlet and check for EMI causes etc.

Here is a schematic that Mbless kindly reverse engineered, the good news is the circuit is fairly simple and repairable. Everyone's skill level is different so just don't try anything you not confidant in.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline mcconkeyb

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1414 on: October 31, 2020, 09:15:41 am »
Thanks Shock, some good information here!

Yes, Firmware 1.4.

I've been looking for a service manual for the ADS 200, but I haven't found anything. This reverse engineered schematic is very helpful. I'll be keeping my eye on this, but today the thing works normally. These intermittent problems are some of the hardest to debug.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 09:25:20 am by mcconkeyb »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1415 on: October 31, 2020, 12:04:54 pm »
Still, contact Pace. It’s always possible that it’s a failure mode they have encountered before and know exactly how to resolve.
 

Offline mcconkeyb

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1416 on: November 19, 2020, 01:45:40 am »
I've contacted PACE and they are just as confused by this as I am. Now I have to decide if I'm going to send it in for evaluation. This likely means putting all soldering projects on hold for a couple of months while it ships there is looked at and then ships back (through the busy Christmas shipping season). Does anyone have international warranty return stories they would like to share?
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1417 on: November 19, 2020, 09:46:10 am »
Hi,

I have this as my soldering station and it is good enough: https://www.banggood.com/YIHUA-908D-220V-60W-LED-Digital-Display-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-Kit-Upgraded-Version-p-1059873.html?cur_warehouse=CN

I had a Hakko 888D as a gift which is still inside the box unused... as request from me.

However, what does this 280$ station has that the 888D doesn't? like THE features which makes it objectively better for hobbyists and day-to-day usage engineers in their bedroom like me.

thanks
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1418 on: November 19, 2020, 12:41:51 pm »
Simple, this is not a bedroom soldering iron. It's a bit overkill for that. It's a production station competing with JBC, Metcal, Ersa, the Hako FX-951, the QUICK TS1200A, and the best offerings from Weller. PACE tips are also hot swappable and quite durable. Even the buttons on the control unit are silicon and can be pressed with the hot tip (in case you can't put your work down).

The product you linked has a ceramic heater, half the power, and cannot sense temperature variations at the tip fast enough to be considered competition at this level.
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1419 on: November 19, 2020, 03:30:28 pm »
I had a WES51 which is still a great iron, but wanted something a little more.  I tried the Hakko 888D, but I was disappointed in it as I didn't think it did as well as the WES51 I was using.  The Pace ADS200 on the other hand has been a step up and has done everything I've wanted it to.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1420 on: November 19, 2020, 09:42:35 pm »
I've contacted PACE and they are just as confused by this as I am. Now I have to decide if I'm going to send it in for evaluation. This likely means putting all soldering projects on hold for a couple of months while it ships there is looked at and then ships back (through the busy Christmas shipping season). Does anyone have international warranty return stories they would like to share?

Shipping from Canada to US could take a while, unless you're want to pay ~$30-40 for courier. I would ask them if they are willing to provide a replacement in advance, and once you receive it you'll send yours in. But they may not have any on hand, or go for it.

 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1421 on: November 19, 2020, 10:05:20 pm »
Maybe just send in the control board.
 
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Offline mcconkeyb

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1422 on: November 20, 2020, 01:29:17 am »
I've been asking the PACE support team a bunch of questions and they had been answering them with next day promptness. But I may have over asked, as the past set of questions have gone unanswered for a couple of days... :(
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1423 on: November 21, 2020, 10:11:08 pm »
I've been asking the PACE support team a bunch of questions and they had been answering them with next day promptness. But I may have over asked, as the past set of questions have gone unanswered for a couple of days... :(
Or maybe they’re talking to engineering to figure out the problem?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1424 on: November 21, 2020, 10:15:51 pm »
Hi,

I have this as my soldering station and it is good enough: https://www.banggood.com/YIHUA-908D-220V-60W-LED-Digital-Display-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-Kit-Upgraded-Version-p-1059873.html?cur_warehouse=CN

I had a Hakko 888D as a gift which is still inside the box unused... as request from me.

However, what does this 280$ station has that the 888D doesn't? like THE features which makes it objectively better for hobbyists and day-to-day usage engineers in their bedroom like me.

thanks
That is a more general question really unsuited to the model-specific discussion that this thread is.

In a nutshell, though, in soldering irons, it’s not so much about features as it is about performance and quality. A professional iron can pump in far more heat than a cheap one, all while maintaining tight temperature control. This means demanding joints (like those of a very typical modern multilayer PCB) can still be soldered quickly and without causing damage to the board or components.

But again, that’s not specific to the ADS200, it’s how any high quality station will perform.
 
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