Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 195356 times)

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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1475 on: June 11, 2021, 10:24:31 pm »
So today the plastic end of my pace tip fractured and broke off inside the handpiece, which is preventing me from inserting any other tips in. Any tips (heh) on how to get it out?
I know they are meant to be consumables, but the tip itself was functional when I removed it and the plastic end failing seems more like a quality control problem issue than usual wear and tear, especially if it puts the entire station out of commission. Should I expect any help from Pace on this problem if I reach out to them?

I would email them, maybe if they are nice they can send you a free tip replacement.
If you see my post a few pages back, you can disassemble the handle which will make it easier to get at the plastic base. Then use something like needle nose pliers, tweezers, exacto, whatever to pull the piece out.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1476 on: June 12, 2021, 02:21:12 am »
Don't lose the oring, but you can just unscrew the rear plastic nut and the socket is removable. I'd be careful and remove the oring and use tweezers to gently slide out the broken contacts. If you damage the plastic socket it will be a pain to fix.

That looks unlikely to have occurred naturally though, it might be an early tip with a tight fit (I think Pace can identify them). But if it was broken before inserting it might explain it. Ask Pace what they lube their orings with when you talk to them. The oring and contacts don't apply a lot of pressure it's the whole point of the keyed cartridge and dampening on the socket.

When you put it back together put the oring on like shown in the photo. The rear socket is keyed so lower the barrel onto it vertically then fasten it up from the bottom. This will ensure you oring is aligned, hard to tell from the photo but perhaps it's not centered properly. You can jam it in wrong if not paying attention.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 02:22:46 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1477 on: June 12, 2021, 08:24:36 am »
So today the plastic end of my pace tip fractured and broke off inside the handpiece, which is preventing me from inserting any other tips in. Any tips (heh) on how to get it out?
I know they are meant to be consumables, but the tip itself was functional when I removed it and the plastic end failing seems more like a quality control problem issue than usual wear and tear, especially if it puts the entire station out of commission. Should I expect any help from Pace on this problem if I reach out to them?

Bottom end (metal part) where plastic broke off on that tip looks visibly bent.
It looks to me it was bent and plastic broke, and then it was inserted in handle where O-ring kept it in...

Also your business end of tips is very dirty... You are not gentle to them... You might be using too high temperature..

They are consumables, but being more gentle to them extends their life immensely. Not to mention things that you are soldering. 

 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1478 on: June 12, 2021, 10:57:38 am »
Depends what flux you use and how often you use the tip to how black the barrels get. If the tinned portion is shiny and can still be tinned that is the important part.

Now I looked again closer at the image the oring has been dislodged into the barrel, so has been caught by the break when the tip was removed and pulled up past the key ledge. Probably an easy fix, remove the broken plastic it's probably sticking out, then poke the oring out and reseat it.

If that blue cap is solid plastic no way it broke just by pulling it out under "normal" conditions. If it was hard to remove it's because you were pulling a slightly compressed oring through a small hole. You could have undone the back cap, removed the socket and coaxed the oring off with less fear of damage.

Anyway lets face it, tips get knocked about and you wouldn't even see a hairline crack. I'd be more worried about damaging the socket. If you resisted the urge to "mince" the socket contacts, a cheap fix.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 10:59:30 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline 5370H55V

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1479 on: June 16, 2021, 04:52:09 pm »
Thanks for all your suggestions. I managed to take apart the handpiece and removed the broken plastic end. The socket seems fine and works with my other tips.  :-+


Anyway lets face it, tips get knocked about and you wouldn't even see a hairline crack. I'd be more worried about damaging the socket. If you resisted the urge to "mince" the socket contacts, a cheap fix.

Now that you mention it that might be possible. The crack appears to have started on the injection mold "nub" and spread backwards from there, like a force was being applied in that direction. I've knocked into my tips a few times before while theyre sitting in the holder, so I'll bet an unlucky hit which started the crack around the nub was probably what happened.
 
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Offline allan_wind

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1480 on: June 28, 2021, 02:00:30 am »
Now all we need is for Pace to make an affordable vacuum desoldering iron! :D

Could Pace modulize the vacuum component so it would be an add-on to the ADS200?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 05:37:07 am by allan_wind »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1481 on: June 28, 2021, 07:34:07 am »
The integrated pump models are larger enclosures. Pace did an Intelliheat ST65 model in the same size of case but it was an analog controlled model and required external air connected to the station..

If they drive an Accudrive compatible vacuum handpiece the same way as the TD200 handpiece it might be possible... but would be a diy hardware hack to route the vacuum handpiece switch to an external pump. Pace vacuum controllers also have "snapvac" which ramps up the initial suction.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 07:35:38 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online PA4TIM

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1482 on: June 28, 2021, 08:10:33 am »
Pace vacuum controllers also have "snapvac" which ramps up the initial suction.
Yesterday I was doing maintenance to my gear and decided to measure the suction of my MBT250 and from a separate vacuumpump I had. The latter did almost 0.8 bar, the Pace around 0.55 bar but the pace holds the vacuum (the snapvac) so the next "suck" starts at full vacuum power. The separate (silence) pump needed a few seconds to come up to its max. And that makes it not usable because you need that "shockwave" snapvac delivers to set the molten metal in motion. It works for normal easy to remove solder in single or double layer PCBs (I tried it instead of the pump in a metcal) but it takes to much time and you miss the "shockwave" . But for not to demanding tasks it works, but otherwise there is to much risk in frying the pad because it takes to long. There is a way. Long ago I modified an old O2 cilinder to use in a FC101 (big LandRover army vehicle)  for switching it into the low gearing. I used a electronic valve and that was not a good thing in the car (It switched gears to fast) but for a desolder-gun it would be fine. Now I think of it, I must have that stuff still somewhere. Maybe I can make a vacuum reservoir (Only because of the noise the membrane pumps make. I do a lot of desoldering and the constant BRRR  BRRR is a bit annoying.

BTW I found something else, the filter between MBT250 and SX100 was pretty bad regarding vacuum, it reduced the vacuum at the tip to 0.3 bar. (I have 3 filters, I clean them regular. You can open them but reclosing them is the problem. 1 was pretty airtight, the other 2 leaked, so cleaning them is possible but better check the vacuum after cleaning. It looks like the filter material works like a seal. Whitout the filter material they all leaked a lot.

So I made a simple filter from a small but very strong  plastic medicine bottle.  Drilled two hole,s glued 2 of those Pace split-able tube connectors and put filter material in between. Turned out to be complete leak-free. Not bad for 5 minutes of working. The handpiece itself was to my supprise 100% airt-tight. The vacuum meter did not drop even a fraction after switching of the pump. Pretty impressive.
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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1483 on: June 28, 2021, 10:20:41 am »
Now all we need is for Pace to make an affordable vacuum desoldering iron! :D

Could Pace modulize the vacuum component so it would be an add-on to the ADS200?
They certainly could if they wanted to, lots of soldering equipment manufacturers make systems like that. (I think Pace might have, too, long, long, long ago.)

The trigger in the Pace desoldering handpieces is nothing but a switch that closes. One could, for example, cobble a vacuum pump where the actual air pump runs all the time, but is kept “off” with a solenoid valve. The trigger would then just trigger the solenoid. I’d imagine this would create an instant surge of pressure similar to snap-vac. (I’m pretty sure all snap-vac does is to give the pump a brief 24V surge before dropping to the 12V continuous. That’s what I measured on my ST 75.)
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1484 on: June 28, 2021, 01:04:32 pm »
After seeing the price of the tweezers, I think it would be nice if there were a third parties making desoldering nozzle tips for the ADS200 or T12 irons. Then hobbyists could build the vacuum part of it.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 02:51:15 pm by labjr »
 

Offline helius

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1485 on: June 28, 2021, 02:30:33 pm »
Could Pace modulize the vacuum component so it would be an add-on to the ADS200?
They certainly could if they wanted to, lots of soldering equipment manufacturers make systems like that. (I think Pace might have, too, long, long, long ago.)
Yes, they had the "Ped-A-Vac III" (rather unfortunate name)
The desoldering tool (SX-25 etc) connected to a basic station for power, and its vacuum line connected to a foot pedal. The foot pedal was supplied with shop air and used a venturi to generate vacuum when depressed.

Quote
(I’m pretty sure all snap-vac does is to give the pump a brief 24V surge before dropping to the 12V continuous. That’s what I measured on my ST 75.)
I believe that's right, the Pace stations don't appear to use vacuum solenoids, unlike e.g. the Hakko 470 which does.
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1486 on: June 28, 2021, 03:06:57 pm »
Yesterday I was doing maintenance to my gear

I should send you my used filters, probably get 20 years out of them. :)
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online PA4TIM

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1487 on: June 28, 2021, 05:09:33 pm »
Only 20 years, what have you done to them  >:D
I see you have the MBT350, I am probably going to buy one. I heard the pump of the 350 is different from the 250. (I have a black 250 that I bought long time ago. It was used by the Belgium army. I replaced the PS-90 and bought the SX100 instead of the SX70. Later got a brand new TT65 for free. The 350 will get a cartridge solder handpiece with switching on/off toolholder, PS90, SX100, and a thermojet (70 or 85, I have not decided yet) and a bunch of tips. I hope I like the cartridge system. Learned also they have SX100 tips for heavy duty use.
Made a funny mistake, I desoldered a capacitor and wondered why it sounded so different. The cap fell out and I took it. There was a strange ball of solder on one of the pins. Then I noticed it, I had put the hose in the output socket. But it did desolder that way, this way my filters stay superclean.

So for people who have a compressor and want to desolder. Melt the solder and then use your compressor to blow the solder out  8)
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1488 on: June 28, 2021, 10:27:29 pm »
I see you have the MBT350, I am probably going to buy one.

I've had my MBT350 for 3 years now, I could use a second one myself :). I'll be next be buying a PS90 for custom tip use. I use two work benches so double ups of tools are no problem.

The 350 will get a cartridge solder handpiece with switching on/off toolholder, PS90, SX100, and a thermojet (70 or 85, I have not decided yet) and a bunch of tips.

Like you I also was also deciding between the TJ70 and TJ85. As I mentioned in that other thread the TJ85 has no button it's foot actuated. The TJ70 may have slightly better performance but you will need to check with Pace. I liked the tips on the TJ70 and thought it would take custom tips easier as it uses the same set screw system. So even though the TJ85 is slimmer I went with the TJ70.

The TD100A handpiece is quick heating (under 10 seconds category from cold). More responsive in my opinion than the Hakko T12. It sits somewhere around the older Metcal MX500 and uses standard tips (not the higher mass "ultra" ones the Pace WJS100 and ADS200 uses). The Pace ADS200 is the lovechild of both the ST and WJS stations and takes both standard and ultra tips.

Learned also they have SX100 tips for heavy duty use.

I have a few heavy duty SX100 tips. Here is complete set of TJ70 tips and my handpieces in their mostly virginal state. Note that I prefer two irons but swapping Pace tips is the least painful experience I've had. Hakko by comparison feels like you are going to break the handpiece.



« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 10:30:07 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1489 on: June 29, 2021, 06:55:33 am »
The MBT350 can also setback channels 1 and 2 (two rear ports for cables). I assume it was designed that way for two operators using TD100/TD100A handpieces. But you could modify another handpiece stand to add setback functionality. I tried it with the MT100 (has no setback stand) and seemed to work fine. So you might be able to mod the PS90 stand or your SX100 stand etc. Test it out first though to ensure it has the desired effect.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1490 on: July 04, 2021, 01:43:35 am »
Measurements from the NTC in the handle and its red color banding match up with this one: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/vishay-beyschlag-draloric-bc-components/NTCLE100E3222GB0/2230738
Beta 25/85: 3977K
R at 25C: 2200R

Measuring the tip voltage follows closely with N type thermocouple response, according to multimeter. I measured at the top of the heater section, not the tip of the iron, as the thermocouple will not be near the tip.

Earlier in this thread it was stated as being K type, but I'm not sure where that information came from. I didn't CJC the handle and its just a cheap bead thermocouple, but, it just matched too well for me to doubt the result.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 01:45:16 am by thm_w »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1491 on: July 04, 2021, 05:04:01 am »
This video states it's a k type at 1m30s.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Online SteveyG

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1492 on: July 06, 2021, 08:38:35 am »
Does anyone have the same fairly wide calibration of the tips on the ADS200?

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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1493 on: July 08, 2021, 07:42:40 am »
The Pace does run a little cooler near set temp. You can turn up the temp a little if you can't get a decent flow at marginal temps. In a reverse situation if a Metcal MX5200 tip couldn't complete the joint in 3-4s with a specific geometry you would have to do the same thing. It's not actually a limitation of the station power it's the thermal profile (regulation) near set temp.

The results of the two Pace tests were quite different. The test conditions the second time around also weren't in Paces favor. You can't just slam solder into the side of the tip and expect it to optimally wet. If you notice in the first Pace test you touched the top of the tip just slightly that's all it took to pool solder there. The Metcal had the most favorable technique of all tests.

Anyway very subtle things like pulsing the soldering into the tip slightly a second before feeding in makes a huge difference, even the surface of that coin will make a difference in some way. I think it's unfair comment to say the ADS200 is not suitable for high mass work. I mean what if it's set a little higher, you use a larger tip, flux and solder properly? I think there are a lot of flawed assumptions in that video.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 08:45:51 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1494 on: July 08, 2021, 03:01:52 pm »
IMHO the use of patinated old coins, tested from different sides (or of different ages; whatever explains that the design is not the same) invalidates the test anyway, since we have no way of knowing whether it’s struggling to flow due to tip temperature regulation, thermal contact area, or surface oxidation. (And if they’re not the same age, they could even be made of different metals inside; low denomination coins stopped being solid copper long ago.)

If the test were with brand new coins from the same roll, it’d be representative-ish. Flat copper discs, all freshly scrubbed or chemically cleaned, would be far better IMHO.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 03:03:37 pm by tooki »
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1495 on: July 08, 2021, 07:59:19 pm »
Dang! You two have hawk-eyes.  :popcorn:
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1496 on: July 08, 2021, 10:12:48 pm »
The Pace does run a little cooler near set temp. You can turn up the temp a little if you can't get a decent flow at marginal temps. In a reverse situation if a Metcal MX5200 tip couldn't complete the joint in 3-4s with a specific geometry you would have to do the same thing. It's not actually a limitation of the station power it's the thermal profile (regulation) near set temp.

Not from the video, the tip he is using in the coin test was measuring well over 16C hotter than the stations 370C setpoint. Giving it an advantage if anything.
However, the control loop arguably is "cooler" to avoid overshoots, from what we've seen, yes.

IMHO the use of patinated old coins, tested from different sides (or of different ages; whatever explains that the design is not the same) invalidates the test anyway, since we have no way of knowing whether it’s struggling to flow due to tip temperature regulation, thermal contact area, or surface oxidation. (And if they’re not the same age, they could even be made of different metals inside; low denomination coins stopped being solid copper long ago.)

It doesn't invalidate the test, but its not perfectly controlled. Which is why he has ordered PCBs to do a future controlled side-by-side experiment.
You can tell the control loop of the Pace is not very aggressive. Powering the thing up it bounces between 60 and 120W. Which is OK for most general production work.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1497 on: July 09, 2021, 06:10:23 pm »

IMHO the use of patinated old coins, tested from different sides (or of different ages; whatever explains that the design is not the same) invalidates the test anyway, since we have no way of knowing whether it’s struggling to flow due to tip temperature regulation, thermal contact area, or surface oxidation. (And if they’re not the same age, they could even be made of different metals inside; low denomination coins stopped being solid copper long ago.)

It doesn't invalidate the test, but its not perfectly controlled. Which is why he has ordered PCBs to do a future controlled side-by-side experiment.
Given that it takes only moderate amounts of copper tarnish to completely overwhelm ordinary electronics fluxes, and that this makes a huge difference in how well the solder flows, I think it’s entirely fair to say that it invalidates the test. When an uncontrolled variable is easily capable of masking the variable you’re trying to measure, I think that makes the test invalid.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1498 on: July 09, 2021, 06:41:19 pm »
Not a perfect test but it's not like it was deliberately fixed against Pace. Metcal usually beats everything else. And it should because it's better state of the art technology and Pace engineering seems a bit lax.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1499 on: July 09, 2021, 11:33:56 pm »
I for one am not at all interested in soldering "tests" on copper chunks. I have a 300W soldering gun for chassis work.
What would be illuminating is to test performance on 16-layer PCBs with small components connected to large planes. A board could be designed for this type of test.
 
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