Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 453489 times)

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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1625 on: March 27, 2022, 09:40:52 am »
The old FETs were ZXMN4A06 on the Rev. C boards.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 09:43:42 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1626 on: March 27, 2022, 12:13:56 pm »
It seems that in old ADS200 there was a 35V capacitor while in new ADS200 there is a 50V capacitor.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1627 on: March 27, 2022, 12:47:42 pm »
In my ADS200 there is a 105°C Nichicon 1000uF 50V capacitor of the VY or UVY range. It is rather basic but probably OK, because there is probably 24V and much less than 105°C.
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-vy.pdf
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-uvy.pdf
What do you think?

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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1628 on: March 27, 2022, 01:10:10 pm »
It's a bit of filtering before the 5V regulator, it doesn't need to be anything fancy. Using a higher cap probably gives it a bit more robustness against higher primary (and therefore secondary) AC voltages. On 220-250 VAC mains there is going to be more varied supply voltages it's probably to add additional overrating. It won't hurt making the cap last even longer as well, but I suspect it was well within spec though to start with.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 01:16:26 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1629 on: March 27, 2022, 04:36:48 pm »
Paces new MBT360 promo video. I like the design and the display looks like it has crystal clear contrast in the video compared to other brands with simple displays.



https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase :(

 

Offline gnavigator1007

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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1631 on: March 28, 2022, 09:08:27 am »
Paces new MBT360 promo video. I like the design and the display looks like it has crystal clear contrast in the video compared to other brands with simple displays.



https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase :(
Duh. It’s a professional soldering system by a company specialized in professional soldering systems. The hobbyist has never been their target demographic.

The predecessor model (MBT350) is similarly priced.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1632 on: April 02, 2022, 11:05:01 pm »
I did not want my soldering iron stand to be floating in the air when attached to ADS200 so I made a little user mod. I used a random piece of aluminium.
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1633 on: April 03, 2022, 11:27:46 am »
From what I can tell the stand holes are primarily there so you can interlock multiple stands. I don't know if attaching the stand is officially a feature, but obviously you can do it. :)

There are accessories Pace sell that attach to the sides (storage and the shelf mount bracket for example on the station) these may have something to do with the alignment.

A possible alternative may be to adjust the feet height (spacers?) or placing something under the stand and of course you can always add an extra couple of holes if you want it permanent. I've not looked into it though, at the moment my stands are in front of the stations.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2022, 11:29:21 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1634 on: April 03, 2022, 11:51:27 am »
The other thing you could diy is a custom dross container for inside the stand if you want to keep it minty clean. Pace sells a dross tray (sits behind the brass wool), hard to tell how it actually goes in and I'm not sure if it works with the new setback stands, but the photos give you an idea.

Me I don't use the wool or sponge in the stand.  I use the Pace cleaning station which is a standalone segmented sponge and makes it easier to clean tweezers and vacuum tips combined with the fiber cleaning tool.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline grantb5

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1635 on: April 03, 2022, 03:25:00 pm »
There are accessories Pace sell that attach to the sides (storage and the shelf mount bracket for example on the station) these may have something to do with the alignment.

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find anything other than tips and spare parts. Do you have a link to other Pace accessories?
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1636 on: April 03, 2022, 04:28:52 pm »
These are the ones I can find, I own the first four (which have also part numbers for refills).

Cleaning station 6021-0006-P1
Fiber cleaning tool https://paceworldwide.com/tool-cleaning-fiber
Sponge cleaning tool https://paceworldwide.com/sponge-cleaning-tool
Redi Rak 6021-0008-P1 (Sensatemp tips so not ADS200 specific but MBT and ST).
Mounting bracket kit https://paceworldwide.com/mounting-bracket-kit
Dross tray (check compatibility) https://paceworldwide.com/dross-tray-tool-stands
Cartridge tip case 1310-0034-P1
Flux Trap Cubby Kit https://paceworldwide.com/flux-trap-cubby-kit

I'm not sure if the Flux trap kit fits the ADS200 but it looks like it would make a nice soft smd tweezer tool holder if it does, I plan to pick one up at some stage. I've seen a cartridge tip stand on the side or back of a Pace station before but can't recall if it was aftermarket or not and apparently what it was called, as I can't find it anymore.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1637 on: April 03, 2022, 04:46:55 pm »
Found it couldn't find the part number as it was incorrectly labelled by the seller. I think it actually attaches to the back of the stand, no idea of compatibility. Anyway you could probably dream up something better if you wanted to store a bunch of tips.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1638 on: April 15, 2022, 10:38:34 pm »
https://youtu.be/ZTg1NUajNBQ
PACE ADS200 password reset

Might be useful when you forget your password.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 
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Offline nimish

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1639 on: April 17, 2022, 08:29:05 pm »
Paces new MBT360 promo video. I like the design and the display looks like it has crystal clear contrast in the video compared to other brands with simple displays.



https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase :(
Duh. It’s a professional soldering system by a company specialized in professional soldering systems. The hobbyist has never been their target demographic.

The predecessor model (MBT350) is similarly priced.


MBT360 PSU is $1700 (just psu), ADS200 is $375 w/ iron. A 5x increase for a chunkier transformer, some extra control electronics (are they still using ancient microprocessors?) and a vacuum pump is a little much. Yeah they aren't hobbyist grade but going from commercial temp to industrial/mil temp components isn't *that* much of a jump especially considering the low tech HMI.

You don't even get an Accudrive sodr-x-tractor!

~$1k PSU only would make sense for 3 accudrive channels + pump.

I *want* to support USA manufacturing and development but an fm-206 psu has 3 channels, a pump and hot air for ~500 less. JBC is cheaper and better!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2022, 08:39:29 pm by nimish »
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1640 on: April 17, 2022, 10:36:57 pm »
Yes, some stations from PACE are bloody expensive... But JBC does not produce a one-in-all stations. https://www.jbctools.com/rmse-q-complete-rework-station-with-electric-pump-product-1650.html
You must have three separate units.
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1641 on: April 18, 2022, 01:33:30 am »
I *want* to support USA manufacturing and development but...

The Hakko is a dated design now, even my MBT350 out classes it especially the newer TD100A aluminum handpiece makes the Hakko one feel like junk, the Pace stations have lower cost maintenance and have a better range of lower cost tips as well.

Part of the problem with Hakkos vaccum desoldering handpiece design is they run $50 cartridge tips. Getting the equivalent to Paces 8 tip selection pack (currently going for around $75) you would be spending about $400 for Hakko. So it makes Hakkos cheaper vaccum handpiece become exponentially more expensive to run as time goes on to the point where you could have just brought the whole Pace station anyway.

The other hidden cost of Hakkos soldering handpiece is buying additional sleeves to make removing and inserting tips less painful, another $6 each for each unique tip you run or you get into this annoying loop of swapping tips into their wrong color coded sleeve and then have to swap them back later, it's just not as good as it seems at first glance.

I don't have the particular Hakko vacuum desoldering handpiece for the FM206, but it doesn't strike me as being a particularly robust design either. Tweezers and vacuum desoldering tools in general are quite expensive to setup and cheapest is not always the best option long term...

... and lets not forget that Pace Accudrive channels are 120W.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 01:40:18 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1642 on: April 18, 2022, 05:01:18 pm »
https://www.testequity.com/product/10063340-8007-0597 $2700 earth dollars 😳 this is not a hobbyist purchase :(
Duh. It’s a professional soldering system by a company specialized in professional soldering systems. The hobbyist has never been their target demographic.

The predecessor model (MBT350) is similarly priced.
MBT360 PSU is $1700 (just psu), ADS200 is $375 w/ iron. A 5x increase for a chunkier transformer, some extra control electronics (are they still using ancient microprocessors?) and a vacuum pump is a little much. Yeah they aren't hobbyist grade but going from commercial temp to industrial/mil temp components isn't *that* much of a jump especially considering the low tech HMI.
While I wish their multichannel stations were cheaper, the fact is, they’ve done extremely well for decades with their pricing model. The main reason for the big price jump is that the ADS200 is priced lower than its predecessors were. (Pace expressly said the ADS200 is aggressively priced.)

If you ask me, all (name brand) commercial soldering stations are “overpriced” for what they are: power supplies with smartish thermostats. But the pricing works for the market, and with the big brands you’re also paying for reputation.

Nobody said anything about mil-spec components.

You don't even get an Accudrive sodr-x-tractor!
Nobody Only Hakko makes a cartridge heater desoldering system. AccuDrive is Pace’s (second-generation) cartridge heater standard. Regardless of what heater and thermal feedback technology they use in their desoldering systems, theirs works really well, which is why they can charge what they do. The fact that they came up with that system decades ago only speaks to how good their original design was.

~$1k PSU only would make sense for 3 accudrive channels + pump.
To you. But not to them, and not to the market.

I *want* to support USA manufacturing and development but an fm-206 psu has 3 channels, a pump and hot air for ~500 less. JBC is cheaper and better!
I’m sorry, are you high?  :o
JBC is excellent. But they’re certainly not cheaper up front (not even close), and they’re far more expensive in terms of consumables (by a substantial margin).


Edit: I’ll be damned, Hakko’s is a cartridge. Thanks, Shock!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 10:41:02 am by tooki »
 
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1643 on: April 18, 2022, 10:05:05 pm »
I am thinking about a cartridge soldering tip holder.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1644 on: April 18, 2022, 10:51:18 pm »
Hakkos vaccum desoldering tips for the FM2024 vs the Paces SX100 tips. Hakkos are cartridge but Paces tips I think are undoubtedly more robust and have a larger heater to tip area. Since the break down cost per tip is about 8 times as cheap if you get a problem tip on the Pace system it's not the end of the world.

During the process of vacuuming desoldering I'm often reflowing the joints before removal for optimal extraction. There is virtually no benefit for cartridges on vacuum desoldering handpieces as the handpieces are larger so can incorporate larger heater designs.

Hakkos dross traps are probably a bit quicker to change but Pace has an on demand trap swapping system with fully recyclable consumable traps as well as cleanable glass ones and the pricing is such it's cost and time efficient when implemented.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline helius

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1645 on: April 22, 2022, 03:56:35 pm »
The Metcal desoldering stations also can be considered a type of cartridge (induction heating), using the STDC cartridges.
As for the MBT-360, it is priced appropriately as an upgrade to users of the MBT-350 and other professional systems.
 
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Offline nimish

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1646 on: April 26, 2022, 03:10:32 am »


I'm willing to bet a major reason Pace even exists as a going concern are "Buy America" contract requirements. Otherwise they would have gotten blown out by superior European tech or undercut by Chinese manufacturing.

As you say all these stations are insanely overpriced for a heater on a stick :)  I can't say I've noticed much upgrading to an accudrive but FWIW, somehow their "intelliheat" tech could handle both tip-heater and non-tip-heater systems. Unclear why an upgrade couldn't be done.

 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1647 on: April 26, 2022, 10:34:28 am »
In the Intelliheat series only the WJS100 and it's associated tip series were 120W rated. So it would be combining 5 or 6 different handpiece wiring configurations to support 3 different thermocouples to make everything run on the same channel.

Bit of a nightmare and it wouldn't have made the ADS200 any cheaper, in retrospect that could have been the worst thing they could have done.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1648 on: April 26, 2022, 11:21:21 am »

I'm willing to bet a major reason Pace even exists as a going concern are "Buy America" contract requirements. Otherwise they would have gotten blown out by superior European tech or undercut by Chinese manufacturing.
Uh huh. Which is why they’re also common in European defense & aerospace manufacturing (according to my boss, whose background is defense electronics). Right.  ::)

As you say all these stations are insanely overpriced for a heater on a stick :)  I can't say I've noticed much upgrading to an accudrive but FWIW, somehow their "intelliheat" tech could handle both tip-heater and non-tip-heater systems.
Because the IntelliHeat connector carries two completely independent control systems. In the post linked below, I explain the control systems Pace uses, and what each connector type has.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/recommendation-for-de-soldering-station-for-through-hole-repair/msg3595853/#msg3595853

Unclear why an upgrade couldn't be done.
What do you mean?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 11:23:54 am by tooki »
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1649 on: April 27, 2022, 10:52:19 pm »
In the Intelliheat series only the WJS100 and it's associated tip series were 120W rated. So it would be combining 5 or 6 different handpiece wiring configurations to support 3 different thermocouples to make everything run on the same channel.

Bit of a nightmare and it wouldn't have made the ADS200 any cheaper, in retrospect that could have been the worst thing they could have done.


I'm willing to bet a major reason Pace even exists as a going concern are "Buy America" contract requirements. Otherwise they would have gotten blown out by superior European tech or undercut by Chinese manufacturing.
Uh huh. Which is why they’re also common in European defense & aerospace manufacturing (according to my boss, whose background is defense electronics). Right.  ::)

As you say all these stations are insanely overpriced for a heater on a stick :)  I can't say I've noticed much upgrading to an accudrive but FWIW, somehow their "intelliheat" tech could handle both tip-heater and non-tip-heater systems.
Because the IntelliHeat connector carries two completely independent control systems. In the post linked below, I explain the control systems Pace uses, and what each connector type has.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/recommendation-for-de-soldering-station-for-through-hole-repair/msg3595853/#msg3595853

Unclear why an upgrade couldn't be done.
What do you mean?

Sure, but being common in NATO defense contracts is essentially the same thing, riding off of the largesse of a captive market. Anyway, they should advertise louder that the MBT350/360/301 series have both vacuum AND hot air pump capability. It's not obvious -- makes the $$ a lot easier to bear. Probably worth picking up.

It's unclear to me why they couldn't have upgraded all of the old tools to accudrive or have some sort of combo port like they were able to do previously. Keeping an old protocol on one channel doesn't give me a lot of confidence in them upgrading the air-based tools to accudrive.

 


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