Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Shock]

Said this before but, the first price was both a Pace and separate tequipment.net discount, plus our forum discount on top. It was roughly 30% discounted.

Easy to overlook at the same time rising costs in US manufacturing and the pandemic followed, a lot of things became more expensive. Distributors want their chunk of change while carrying as little stock as possible.

I have no idea how Pace was impacted but I'd guess to say it's more about covering costs than hurting new customers.

[ataradov]

Significant chunk of those costs is their own fault. They failed to optimize the design. There is zero need for a linear power supply with a huge and expensive transformer in the soldering iron.

A well executed Ksger T12 performs about the same as ADS200.  Ksger has quality control issues, so you may not get exactly the best unit, but overall it shows a better design. Pace could do the same, just make sure that QC is good and make a bank.

[labjr]

Significant chunk of those costs is their own fault. They failed to optimize the design. There is zero need for a linear power supply with a huge and expensive transformer in the soldering iron.

A well executed Ksger T12 performs about the same as ADS200.  Ksger has quality control issues, so you may not get exactly the best unit, but overall it shows a better design. Pace could do the same, just make sure that QC is good and make a bank.

Ksger T12 is not comparable to something made for use in a manufacturing environment.

[grantb5]

What would be your recommendation for a direct Metcal alternative for the ADS200? I have one and I'm happy with it, but a friend of mine is looking.

[ataradov]

That's why I'm saying that they could have made a more resilient version of it. It is not like it is impossible to design 150W switching power supply capable of continuous operation.

It is fine if they are going primarily for manufacturing, of course. But it is over-built and expensive because of lack of care not for some perceived "quality".

Their firmware update method is to mail a programmed MCU for you to replace.

[grantb5]

Their firmware update method is to mail a programmed MCU for you to replace.

I made some recommendations for them for an alternative MCU with a minimal learning curve that would allow them to do flash updates. Even offered to help.

[2N3055]

That's why I'm saying that they could have made a more resilient version of it. It is not like it is impossible to design 150W switching power supply capable of continuous operation.

It is fine if they are going primarily for manufacturing, of course. But it is over-built and expensive because of lack of care not for some perceived "quality".

Their firmware update method is to mail a programmed MCU for you to replace.

A robust, resilient, medical grade PSU that you would need also cost lots of money. I prefer classical transformer, it is much more robust long term and also leakage is very low... and that is not even a problem.

TD-200 AccuDrive Tip-Heater Cartridge Iron with Instant SetBack Tool Stand is 232 USD (that is iron and stand , no power control unit)
ADS200 AccuDrive Soldering Station with TD-200 & 3 Tip Bundle is 414 USD
Price of control unit: 182 USD

MT-200 MiniTweez Kit with Instant SetBack Cubby (AccuDrive) (that is iron and stand , no power control unit) 395 USD
ADS200 with MT-200 MiniTweez, Chip Tip & Instant SetBack Tool Stand 850 USD
Price of control unit: 455 USD

WTF is wrong with them ?? It is literally LESS EXPENSIVE (and for 41 USD !!!!) to buy complete ADS200 AccuDrive Soldering Station with TD-200 & 3 Tip Bundle AND MT-200 MiniTweez Kit with Instant SetBack Cubby  than to buy tweezers with control unit!!!

Their prices are simply stupid and illogical. It is like pricing is random...

Not to mention that prices for tweezer handle is too much.. 

[tooki]

I had decided to buy the ads200 and I saw a huge price increase a couple of days before placing the order. I will most likely look elsewhere now...

Pace doesn't seem like good value anymore. Seems as if they tried to make a splash out of the gate with intention of jacking up prices later.

The original price was clearly communicated as an introductory price of about half off. So it wasn’t a “huge price increase” or “jacking up prices”, but it reverting to its actual normal price.

[tooki]

Significant chunk of those costs is their own fault. They failed to optimize the design.

I very much doubt they were losing money on them when they were still selling them for the $200 introductory price. So I very much doubt that manufacturing costs have anything to do with the prices.

There is zero need for a linear power supply with a huge and expensive transformer in the soldering iron.

There clearly must be some reason why all the big manufacturers use linear power supplies in most or all of their soldering stations.

I actually asked that question of the Pace rep that used to post here before he retired, and he responded that he didn’t remember what the reason was, but that the engineers had explained it to him at one point and that it had made sense.

[helius]

What would be your recommendation for a direct Metcal alternative for the ADS200? I have one and I'm happy with it, but a friend of mine is looking.

In terms of price the closest Metcal equivalent would be the MFR-1110, but it has a maximum power of 60W (single channel), compared to the ADS200's 120W (although some tests upthread show that the Pace may be limited to 80W continuous). Many sources state that RF heat is more effective than a watts-to-watts comparison would imply (this has to do with the nature of the control loop; in a RF iron the power is being sent down the cable continually and reflected back to the power supply when it is not needed. As soon as the temperature of the tip drops, the power is immediately absorbed by the tip without the power unit needing to detect and correct it, as in a resistive heating system).

For a higher power Metcal you need the MX5000 which outputs 80W into a single channel. The MX series is incompatible with the tools and tips from the MFR series.

[pope]

I actually asked that question of the Pace rep that used to post here before he retired, and he responded that he didn’t remember what the reason was, but that the engineers had explained it to him at one point and that it had made sense.

That's a strong argument 

[Hydrawerk]

There clearly must be some reason why all the big manufacturers use linear power supplies in most or all of their soldering stations.

They probably want to use a Zero crossing control. You need AC for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_crossing_control

[Hydrawerk]

Hi Folks
My PACE TD-200 hand piece losing the black plastics that go's around the blue aluminium.(...)
Has anyone else had this problem of the black plastic falling of the hand piece?
Thanks

Yes, I saw it on my workmate's handpiece. It was probably bought in 2020 or so. Not a problem probably. But you might try contacting PACE.

[thm_w]

I actually asked that question of the Pace rep that used to post here before he retired, and he responded that he didn’t remember what the reason was, but that the engineers had explained it to him at one point and that it had made sense.

That's a strong argument 

lol
There are a lot of justifications that can "make sense". eg you can significantly under-size a linear transformer, because you'd never be soldering at 100% duty cycle, whereas a AC/DC supply cannot be as easily under-sized (other than the heatsink). Reliability is better as its so simple (but warranty is only 1 year). "Electromigration" tip issue has never been shown, so I don't think thats an issue, but someone might believe it as a proven fact. Zero crossing for lower noise as mentioned above.

Most likely is its done that way because they've always done it that way. Too risky to try something new that might not pass compliance testing.

That and the cost of flying in Treez from the UK to custom design a flyback is astronomical. He's the only designer you can trust not to run away with your IP to China.

[labjr]

I like the weight of a linear supply because it keeps it from sliding around on bench. I have some older Metcal stations with linear transformers in them, which I also prefer because I can still repair them if need be. Almost every part is still available. They do seem to run forever. The newer Metcal stations have switching supplies though.

[nimish]

I actually asked that question of the Pace rep that used to post here before he retired, and he responded that he didn’t remember what the reason was, but that the engineers had explained it to him at one point and that it had made sense.

That's a strong argument 

lol
There are a lot of justifications that can "make sense". eg you can significantly under-size a linear transformer, because you'd never be soldering at 100% duty cycle, whereas a AC/DC supply cannot be as easily under-sized (other than the heatsink). Reliability is better as its so simple (but warranty is only 1 year). "Electromigration" tip issue has never been shown, so I don't think thats an issue, but someone might believe it as a proven fact. Zero crossing for lower noise as mentioned above.

Most likely is its done that way because they've always done it that way. Too risky to try something new that might not pass compliance testing.

That and the cost of flying in Treez from the UK to custom design a flyback is astronomical. He's the only designer you can trust not to run away with your IP to China.

lmao what IP? it's a heater on a stick. anyone interested in china can always dump the MCU flash anyway but there's already better open source PID controllers.

[Shock]

I'll opt for the linear supply just as it is, really annoying when smps die in tools. External smps suck as well, you have to crack the case to repair them and they don't play well on an already cluttered bunch.

[tooki]

That and the cost of flying in Treez from the UK to custom design a flyback is astronomical. He's the only designer you can trust not to run away with your IP to China.

lmao what IP? it's a heater on a stick. anyone interested in china can always dump the MCU flash anyway but there's already better open source PID controllers.

That’s an inside joke: You must not be familiar with the forum member treez/faringdon: he claims to be a power supply designer in the UK. He’s constantly posting threads asking novice questions, often in the context of how China is stealing UK jobs and such…

[grantb5]

https://www.circuitnet.com/news/uploads/4/ADS200-_100-Off-Promo_Rev3_26-June-23.pdf

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PACE Announces Summer Sale of ADS200 ® Professional Soldering Stations

Vass, NC – July 4, 2023 –For a limited time, PACE Worldwide is offering a $100 off list sale price on all of their ADS200 soldering stations. The discount will be available through PACE’s network of distributors or directly through their website.

[Cliff Matthews]

That PDF announcement is from Billy Siegel (Isn't he's the guy in all the soldering video's?)
Maybe we should ask him to reconsider having a Rep browse this thread now and then for outstanding product advice since we lost Aaron Caplan (retired) some time back?
wsiegel@paceworldwide.com

[Shock]

BTW, Aaron came out of retirement and is back at Pace. Probably best to contact support though (instead) if necessary. Aaron's role was in training/marketing as far as I'm aware so I expect was more involved with the launch.

Tequipment was reducing prices around the end of year time in the past. Aside from Pace doing a promotion distributors/dealers set their own prices.

I'm fairly sure Pace is aware of product discussion here, to my knowledge Eevblog is the most prominent forums for Electronics related gear discussion if not electronics in general.

Hopefully tequipment gets a good price going, if possible $100 off promo and the Eevblog tequipment discount on top, with free shipping would be the best deal seen for a while.

[grantb5]

Hopefully tequipment gets a good price going, if possible $100 off promo and the Eevblog tequipment discount on top, with free shipping would be the best deal seen for a while.

So far I have not been able to apply both the eevblog and free shipping, let alone the (upcoming?) $100 off.

[labjr]

 I don't particularly like dealing with TEquipment. Their sales people are pushy and also tried to add shipping charges to free shipping.

[Shock]

They have been fine for me so far. I don't rely heavily on customer service. Back in the day (dark ages) everything was ordered over the phone out of catalogs glad I don't have to do that anymore.

[Electro Fan]

TEquipment has been consistently dependable in my experience and the upcoming sale looks interesting.

Question:  Has anyone here ever gone from a Hakko FX888D to a Pace ADS200 and concluded that their life improved, or at least their soldering results or their soldering skills improved noticeably?