Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 170563 times)

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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #700 on: July 25, 2018, 03:58:58 am »
Aaron, does this mean we will be seeing v1.3 firmware soon?
See attached.

Quote
PACE Worldwide-AC
4 days ago
We're working on it! Will get back to everyone soon.

Probably in a month or 2. We're working on a a few minor tweaks. We also would like to wait a bit to see if customers find other bugs. Rather than send out 4 revisions in 3 months, we would rather wait a short period of time to see if any other issues come up, then send out a combined Rev "1-3". Make sense?

And how does the upgrade process actually work?
I know it's a replacement PLCC micro, but would Australian customers have to pay for the firmware upgrade via Mektronics (Australian authorised dealer)?
Or do Mektronics supply things like this to their customers complimentary, to justify their margins?

This is where a USB interface really shines vs PLCC IC.

The way it works is this:
  • First of all, make sure you know the version of your software/firmware, by switching on the power button, which will immediately flash the firmware version. At this time it is "1-2".
  • Wait for PACE to announce a software revision, as it's more likely that your request could slip through the cracks since a "1-3" revision is still likely to be at least a month or 2 away.
  • Go to www.paceworldwide.com/contact-us, and fill out the form with your request for an the latest firmware revision for the ADS200. You might want to mention the software revision currently on your ADS unit.
  • Make sure you include a good mailing address.
  • You could also request revised software through your authorized distributor, in your case Mektronics, but note that it's up to the distributor to determine whether you are charged for shipping.
  • PACE will send a new PLCC-44 with new software along with a chip puller, free of charge.

Hope this helps,

Aaron
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 04:15:58 am by PACE-Worldwide »
 
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Online exe

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #701 on: July 25, 2018, 06:38:19 am »
I wish it had a usb port or sd card slot for doing upgrades.
 

Online exe

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #702 on: July 25, 2018, 10:33:11 am »
I'm planning a US$450 station shootout.

Please include Chinese t12 clones.
 

Offline VK4GHZ

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #703 on: July 26, 2018, 08:29:38 am »
Well, I've ordered a JBC CD-2BE.
It was only $5 more than the ADS200, and comes with two tips.
(As much as I dislike the integrated JBC stand, and preferred the separate stand that the ADS200 has.)

I'm afraid the AUD$542 + GST pricing in Australia doesn't make the ADS200 attractive enough, considering the JBC unit is a mature product with a good track record.

I'm sure the ADS200 will, in time, build a huge fan base especially in the USA, but it really needs to be priced accordingly in other regions.
If the ADS200 were sub AUD$400 here, then it would be a no-brainer.

I'd like to say a big thank you to Aaron for his participation in this topic.
It's not everyday you get a company rep that keeps existing and potential new customers updated like he has on a forum like this.
I have no prior experience with JBC products, but Pace customer service will be hard to beat.

 
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Offline knapik

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #704 on: July 26, 2018, 09:10:58 am »
Don't blame you, the current price listed for Mektronics is a bit out of my price range, otherwise I would've bought one myself. One day when I'm not busy, I'll try out their "100% price match guarantee" and report if I had any success or not.
 

Offline elektropionir

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #705 on: July 26, 2018, 04:08:29 pm »
And my comment about using ac directly from the trafo with an analog switch is in the attachment in case I did not project my thoughts effectively.

There are two things to consider before going your way. One is there is not much benefit in efficiency and cost. Second is, if thermocouple in the tip is not floating, sensing from it can be troublesome in your configuration. But nice idea, reminds me this JBC diy station: http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/download/file.php?id=11965&mode=view (full thread http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6302&start=15)


Sorry for the late reply. I am quite busy these days....

The project you attached is really interesting, I haven't seen it before, I like the simplicity of that design. That was obviously done by competent designer....
Regarding the bold part of your comment, i think it is really not as complicated as you assume.

I have never seen pace tips, but I do assume they have similar approach like JBC, with 3 terminal cartridge where one pin is shared connection of heater/thermocouple. 
I cannot really see well on the video. Then they would need to do measurements only during off periods of the heater.

1) It would be a piece of cake for analog designer to design an amp circuit for measuring in the high branch, however there is another very simple solution with a small compromise.

2) If you limit yourself to measuring only during negative half-periods of the current from the trafo, you can keep lower mosfet (M4) off so current will not flow, and turn higher mosfet (M2) on during measuring. This would bring one pin of your heater to ground level, where you can then have your signal referred to analog ground for measuring.
This would simplify your amp design significantly, and I think 50/60Hz frequency for temperature control is more than enough.

Take care.
 

Offline knapik

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #706 on: July 29, 2018, 01:06:43 pm »
Seems like element14 have the station listed on their website now, but without any stock. The prices are $480 AUD with the ISB stand, and $430 without.
 
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Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #707 on: July 31, 2018, 04:37:50 am »
There are two N-fets and two P-fets (yeah, they are different, hard to see on video, but part numbers slightly different, they are ZXMP, not ZXMN). I wasn't able to trace all the traces, but I think it's this bridge:
.

Looking at the video, it seems the station has more part than I expected. Still curious how they use adc frontend.

Good call on the bridge.

I too was curious about how the controller works, so I decided to keep my unit and try and figure it out. I started tracing the signals over the weekend and am about halfway done; I have the ADC and MCU left.

I've attached a PDF of what I have now with some scattered notes. (Yes, the schematic is poorly laid out and messy. I'll clean it up when things start to make more sense.) I'll update the thread when I make some more headway. Hopefully somebody will find it useful.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 04:41:05 am by mbless »
 
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Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #708 on: August 03, 2018, 01:16:48 am »
Here is my latest effort. I'm leaving for the weekend, so I wanted to post this so people can think it over.

I have traced out almost all of the tracks. There are a few vias that disappear into the inner layers, so that'll take some time to figure out if they actually go somewhere I haven't mapped yet. I also need to clean up the op amp and heater drive schematics.
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #709 on: August 03, 2018, 01:56:23 am »
Hope Aaron doesn't pop a head-gasket on those schematics..  :scared:
 
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Offline drojf

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Mektronics sale
« Reply #710 on: August 03, 2018, 01:59:15 am »

The ADS200 is on 'sale' at Mektronics, so now the price is $499 (excluding GST. Was $543 previously).

PRICES BELOW EXCLUDING GST (i'm pretty sure element14 also excludes GST, correct me if I'm wrong)

Mektronics, with ISB: $499 ('sale')
(Not available yet!) Element14, with ISB: $481
(Not available yet!) Element14,   NO ISB: $435

edit: Mektronics has an ebay account, where the ADS200 costs $576.35 inc GST and free shipping. You can use the PENNY5 discount code to get it for $547.53 inc shipping (or any other ebay voucher you happen to have).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:01:42 am by drojf »
 

Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #711 on: August 03, 2018, 03:47:41 am »
It's for uhh.... educational purposes only  ::)
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #712 on: August 03, 2018, 03:50:06 am »
Hope Aaron doesn't pop a head-gasket on those schematics..  :scared:

I can't imagine someone making a station of the same quality and support for less. Though, I suspect it won't be too long before someone makes a drop-in replacement PCB with a fancy OLED display and custom firmware. Probably increase sales if it becomes a popular unit to mod.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #713 on: August 03, 2018, 03:54:53 am »
BTW TEquipment has lowered the price of the ADS200 with ISB stand to $243.80  :-+
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #714 on: August 03, 2018, 05:27:40 am »
BTW TEquipment has lowered the price of the ADS200 with ISB stand to $243.80  :-+

Tried the EEVblog 6% off discount code on top of that? Should work as I think they honor it on almost every other deal.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #715 on: August 13, 2018, 01:15:05 am »
I finally got around to looking at this again and doing some measurements. There is just one via that I can't tell if I found where it went or not. I had to use the 4-wire probes to figure out the current shunt circuitry as the previous iteration didn't make sense. I have a couple of observations/questions about the design.

1. The MCU reset circuitry is rather complex especially considering the data sheet just suggests connecting a cap to VDD.
2. There is a good 0.4V sag on the 5V power rail while the heater is on. The sag is seen in the digital signals. I'm a bit surprised by this since there is the 1000 uF cap. Edit: It's only 20mV. I had a grounding issue.
3. Why have a flip flop control the PNP which controls the NPN which in turn controls the P-channel for heater power? Why not have the flip flop drive the NPN?
4. There is a NTC thermistor in the hand piece just below the bottom of the cartridge. I assume this is for cold-junction compensation. I haven't worked out the LM317 is doing with the thermistor, though.
5. I don't see where/how the current shunt is actually used to measure cartridge current. The op amp circuit doesn't permit it, and the multiplexer is usually passing the cold-junction analog signal while the heater is on, not the thermocouple/current shunt signal. I actually got the over current error message when I accidentally shorted the 5V and ground rails while probing.
6. Concerning the large temperature jumps shown in Dave's video, the only time I see the thermocouple voltage jump is when the heater is on which is expected for a series heater and thermocouple. I would not expect Pace to be making temperature measurements while the heater is on. While the heater is on for an extended period of time, e.g. turning on for the first time, the multiplexer does pass the thermocouple analog signal to the ADC so perhaps Pace does make thermocouple measurements which would cause the temperature to jump.  :-//
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 11:58:49 pm by mbless »
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #716 on: August 13, 2018, 02:42:23 am »

2. There is a good 0.4V sag on the 5V power rail while the heater is on. The sag is seen in the digital signals. I'm a bit surprised by this since there is the 1000 uF cap.


That's surprising. How low does the VAA +30V supply go when the heater is on?
 

Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #717 on: August 13, 2018, 03:01:44 pm »

2. There is a good 0.4V sag on the 5V power rail while the heater is on. The sag is seen in the digital signals. I'm a bit surprised by this since there is the 1000 uF cap.


That's surprising. How low does the VAA +30V supply go when the heater is on?

Off the top of my head I measured ~32V unloaded and 30V when the heater is on. I am going to remeasure all of the rails tonight since I have my doubts about something. I will update later.
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #718 on: August 13, 2018, 03:29:52 pm »
Matches my unloaded numbers. ANSI 120VAC can go as high as 126V (too close for comfort with 33.5v on 35v cap). Marco Reps says there's drop-in switch-mode parts for the 7805.. Would switching noise play well with the ICL7660 and op amps?

BTW, my 7805 is 30c cooler now..  :-+
 
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Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #719 on: August 14, 2018, 12:05:00 am »
Matches my unloaded numbers. ANSI 120VAC can go as high as 126V (too close for comfort with 33.5v on 35v cap). Marco Reps says there's drop-in switch-mode parts for the 7805.. Would switching noise play well with the ICL7660 and op amps?

BTW, my 7805 is 30c cooler now..  :-+

Yes, 35V is too low. Today I measured 33V unloaded and 31V loaded. Plus it is right next to the large heat-generating 7805 :scared:.

I personally wouldn't change to an switch mode without a linear post regulator due to noise concerns. I remeasured the 5V rail and got about 20mV drop while the heater was on. I had a grounding issue before that was showing much higher voltage drop.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #720 on: August 14, 2018, 02:31:24 am »
Matches my unloaded numbers. ANSI 120VAC can go as high as 126V (too close for comfort with 33.5v on 35v cap). Marco Reps says there's drop-in switch-mode parts for the 7805.. Would switching noise play well with the ICL7660 and op amps?

BTW, my 7805 is 30c cooler now..  :-+

Yes, 35V is too low. Today I measured 33V unloaded and 31V loaded. Plus it is right next to the large heat-generating 7805 :scared:.

I personally wouldn't change to an switch mode without a linear post regulator due to noise concerns. I remeasured the 5V rail and got about 20mV drop while the heater was on. I had a grounding issue before that was showing much higher voltage drop.
Whew..!  I'm glad. Since Pace gifted mine, I didn't figure I even had a warranty (especially now with all my mods)

Trivia: This Pace is so dedicated, it works during severe brown-outs.. in fact, it can solder at 33% of normal mains  :-DD
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #721 on: August 14, 2018, 03:58:16 am »
Quote

Trivia:
This Pace is so dedicated, it works during severe brown-outs.. in fact, it can solder at 33% of normal mains  :-DD

I don't see how that's a selling point. I've never experienced a brown-out while soldering. If I did I'd be in the dark, most likely trying to disconnect anything of value from the mains.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 04:00:27 am by labjr »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #722 on: August 14, 2018, 07:20:53 am »
I personally wouldn't change to an switch mode without a linear post regulator due to noise concerns.

Have a look at Recom DC to DC converters they have low noise replacements for the 7805.
This is the one I was looking at (for another application) but they do them in higher input voltages as well.

R-785.0-0.5
https://mouser.com/datasheet/2/468/R-78xx-0.5-958374.pdf
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 production station (a JBC killer at $239??)
« Reply #723 on: August 14, 2018, 11:56:08 am »
Quote

Trivia:
This Pace is so dedicated, it works during severe brown-outs.. in fact, it can solder at 33% of normal mains  :-DD

I don't see how that's a selling point. I've never experienced a brown-out while soldering. If I did I'd be in the dark, most likely trying to disconnect anything of value from the mains.
That was humor (based on Vin/Vout that 7805 has to drop..)  ;)
 

Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #724 on: August 14, 2018, 01:18:31 pm »
Wow, did treez design that thing? Looks almost improvised.
 


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