Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 169713 times)

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Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #800 on: November 15, 2018, 08:30:21 am »
Looks like I finally got my new toy in the mail ;D

Congrats! Nothing like a new firestick to bash around :)
I ended up with a few extra tips to try out and have some double ups. If you want a couple send me a PM and I'll put them in a small post bag for you.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline knapik

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #801 on: November 15, 2018, 09:23:05 am »
Looks like I finally got my new toy in the mail ;D

Congrats! Nothing like a new firestick to bash around :)
I ended up with a few extra tips to try out and have some double ups. If you want a couple send me a PM and I'll put them in a small post bag for you.

Unfortunately, for some reason it took Mektronics a month to actually ship it to me. I also asked if it was possible to get a discount on the ~$550 list price, and I had to go through some convoluted process where they changed the price on the website itself temporarily just so I could buy it and then change it back after I did. All that and a few days later it went on sale for the same price ???

Are you sure you're willing to just give away your extra tips to me?
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #802 on: November 15, 2018, 10:20:19 am »
Are you sure you're willing to just give away your extra tips to me?

Yeah I have a few spares and some consumables as well. I'll send you a PM.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline salavat

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #803 on: November 17, 2018, 01:32:26 am »
Aaron,

I was very excited to learn about new ADS200 station, which would be excellent price/performance device. (I think) pricing is important in the ADS200 offering, thus I am curious to what extent you have influence over the pricing of your distributors?

The reason for asking is that your Russian distributor sells ADS200 with standard tool stand for 364 USD at current exchange rate, which is way off from European pricing at your Finnish distributor, and 40 % above the tequipment pricing (without 6% discount for eevblog members).... at that price point (I believe) ADS200 with instant set back stand is getting quite close to JBC compact station....
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:53:22 am by salavat »
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #804 on: November 17, 2018, 02:21:51 am »
Aaron,

I was very excited to learn about new ADS200 station, which would be excellent price/performance device. (I think) pricing is important in the ADS200 offering, thus I am curious to what extent you have influence over the pricing of your distributors?

The reason for asking is that your Russian distributor sells ADS200 with standard tool stand for 364 USD at current exchange rate, which is way off from European pricing at your Finnish distributor, and 40 % above the tequipment pricing (without 6% discount for eevblog members).... I that price point (I believe) ADS200 with instant set back stand is getting quite close to JBC compact station....

I would say PACE has about a 25% influence over pricing, which isn’t much. In the US, it is actually illegal to dictate prices to distributors. It is considered to be a form of price-fixing. We can “highly recommend” or “strongly suggest” that a distributor lower their prices if we think they are gouging customers. But distributors set their own pricing, and usually do so based on a set discount PACE provides against a published list price. I don’t know why distributors in Russia charge more for PACE product as I am not directly involved in that side of the company, but I suspect their costs (shipping/duties/tariffs, etc) are far higher than Tequipment’s, a distributor located about a 6 hour drive from PACE’s factory in NC. It would not surprise me if the shipping cost of an ADS200 box were US$75-$100 by the time it gets to Russia, whereas it’s only $4/box for Tequipment, who buy at least 50-100 units at a time. The Finnish distributor is likely willing to make less margin than the Russian distributor but that's just opinion, I really don't know.
 

Offline salavat

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #805 on: November 17, 2018, 02:50:25 am »
Quote
I would say PACE has about a 25% influence over pricing, which isn’t much. In the US, it is actually illegal to dictate prices to distributors. It is considered to be a form of price-fixing. We can “highly recommend” or “strongly suggest” that a distributor lower their prices if we think they are gouging customers. But distributors set their own pricing, and usually do so based on a set discount PACE provides against a published list price. I don’t know why distributors in Russia charge more for PACE product as I am not directly involved in that side of the company, but I suspect their costs (shipping/duties/tariffs, etc) are far higher than Tequipment’s, a distributor located about a 6 hour drive from PACE’s factory in NC. It would not surprise me if the shipping cost of an ADS200 box were US$75-$100 by the time it gets to Russia, whereas it’s only $4/box for Tequipment, who buy at least 50-100 units at a time. The Finnish distributor is likely willing to make less margin than the Russian distributor but that's just opinion, I really don't know.

Aaron, thanks for reply. For your information - there is 0 % (zero) custom duty on soldering stations (just checked). Of course, there is a VAT 18%, which is neutral, since it is paid by importer on the border, then distributor (importer) is reimbursed by customers who pay 18% VAT but from the retail price (which is obviously higher).

As transportation costs are concerned - I am (as private individual) pay something like 14 USD per kilo for air delivery, for business customers carrying loads and boxes, pricing starting from 3 USD per kilo (real figure).

So, probably, you can figure out what makes Russian prices so interesting)).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:52:05 am by salavat »
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #806 on: December 14, 2018, 03:49:38 am »
I'm wondering why the 1/8" 30 Degree Chisel tips are more expensive than the other tips in both the Standard and the Ultra Series?
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #807 on: December 14, 2018, 05:29:50 am »
I'm wondering why the 1/8" 30 Degree Chisel tips are more expensive than the other tips in both the Standard and the Ultra Series?

The short answer is they cost us more to manufacture. Standard 1/8"/3.18mm 30° Chisel Tip PN 1130-0051-P1 and it's Ultra-Performance version PN 1131-0051-P1 were originally custom created for a specific customer, and I think we had to perform some secondary operation (like extra plating) to manufacture the tips to specification. It other cases, it's simply harder to plate and manufacture the tip (Knife-Tips and ultra-fine point tips are an example), so those cost more too, which will be reflected in a higher list price. In general, if the tip shape requires a secondary operation, the price will go up.

Aaron
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #808 on: December 18, 2018, 06:13:38 pm »
Notice to All:

By now, many of you have seen Dave's latest soldering station related video: EEVBlog #1160 - Weller Responds! concerning the safety of the Weller 1010.

I just wanted you to know that the fuse in the back of the ADS200 is in the primary side of the transformer for safety. On all of our products, we have always had a fuse (or circuit breaker) as the first items on the Mains. Since the Weller 1010 is more of a budget station, I suspect they probably omitted the fuse as a cost-cutting measure. If you look at the ADS200 back panel image attached, you'll note PACE even supplies an extra fuse (not that you'll ever need to use it)!

Aaron
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 12:03:47 am by PACE-Worldwide »
 
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Offline The3DE

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #809 on: December 26, 2018, 08:14:43 pm »
Does anyone know how the ADS200 compares to the Hakko FX-951, with both being around the same price? I'm mostly concerned with performance.
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Offline floobydust

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #810 on: December 26, 2018, 09:50:57 pm »
Notice to All:

By now, many of you have seen Dave's latest soldering station related video: EEVBlog #1160 - Weller Responds! concerning the safety of the Weller 1010.

I just wanted you to know that the fuse in the back of the ADS200 is in the primary side of the transformer for safety. On all of our products, we have always had a fuse (or circuit breaker) as the first items on the Mains. Since the Weller 1010 is more of a budget station, I suspect they probably omitted the fuse as a cost-cutting measure. If you look at the ADS200 back panel image attached, you'll note PACE even supplies an extra fuse (not that you'll ever need to use it)!

Aaron

Can you comment on what safety approvals the station actually has. I don't see anything mentioned in the documentation/website about agency approvals or a certification label on the product. Nice to mention ESD standards though.
I could not find Pace soldering stations listed in the UL on-line certifications database.

I look to ensure a product is not "designed to" or "meets requirements of" but has instead has been assessed by an accredited agency when it comes to safety.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 09:52:37 pm by floobydust »
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #811 on: December 27, 2018, 12:47:04 am »
Notice to All:

By now, many of you have seen Dave's latest soldering station related video: EEVBlog #1160 - Weller Responds! concerning the safety of the Weller 1010.

I just wanted you to know that the fuse in the back of the ADS200 is in the primary side of the transformer for safety. On all of our products, we have always had a fuse (or circuit breaker) as the first items on the Mains. Since the Weller 1010 is more of a budget station, I suspect they probably omitted the fuse as a cost-cutting measure. If you look at the ADS200 back panel image attached, you'll note PACE even supplies an extra fuse (not that you'll ever need to use it)!

Aaron

Can you comment on what safety approvals the station actually has. I don't see anything mentioned in the documentation/website about agency approvals or a certification label on the product. Nice to mention ESD standards though.
I could not find Pace soldering stations listed in the UL on-line certifications database.

I look to ensure a product is not "designed to" or "meets requirements of" but has instead has been assessed by an accredited agency when it comes to safety.

All of our Soldering Stations are CSA/CE approved, which is equivalent to UL approval.

Aaron
 
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #812 on: December 27, 2018, 03:07:57 am »
Adding an ISB micro-switch is not so easy unless Pace wants to sell these little stainless plates (with threaded holes). As I am always curious, I just had to "take-a-gander" with calipers ready. Here's an idea of what I'm 100% sure no-one will want to fabricate:  SS 0.75 mm THICK (If this thing was Asian crap, soft metal would be used..)

MICRO-SWITCH: 1.6 mm HOLES x2 at 6.0 mm SPACING
Red Lines in mm on 2 attached pics:
A - 4.6
B - 7.7
C - 25.1
D - 24.3
E - 20.7
F - 4.0
G - 13.3
H - 3.0
I - 20.0
J - 3.8
K - 17.6
L - 2.4
M - 7.9
N - 6.6
O - 19.5
P - 6.0
Q - 9.0
R - 18.9
S - 9.1
Still don't know why I posted this, but obviously I had time without chestnuts roasting by an open fire..   :-DD
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #813 on: December 27, 2018, 05:15:06 pm »
Does anyone know how the ADS200 compares to the Hakko FX-951, with both being around the same price? I'm mostly concerned with performance.

I don't think there is anything the Hakko FX-951 does better. The Pace ADS 200 is built from more expensive materials (metal rather than plastic), higher power, more accurate and faster heating, requires no calibration, has an easier interface and clearer display. The Paces iron aside from being aluminum is shorter and doesn't require padding to dissipate heat, or expensive plastic tip holders.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 05:25:58 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #814 on: December 28, 2018, 03:56:57 am »
I need a new soldering station and I'm considering the ads200 since I had a good experience with a second hand pace (clearly beaten up but worked like a champ) but i'd like the ability to swap it to 230V if I ever move to a different country -- is there some way of getting this one serviced if I ever need to change the voltage? (Maybe swap out the transformer?)

I really wonder why there's no built in switch. Would it really have cost a lot more?
 
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Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #815 on: December 28, 2018, 05:27:39 pm »
Hell, this is EEVBlog forums: anyone know the specs on the transformer? I can buy a DPDT 110/240V switch for like $5 and can probably find dual-primary transformers if the secondary is a standard voltage like 24VAC.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #816 on: December 28, 2018, 05:35:28 pm »
Hell, this is EEVBlog forums: anyone know the specs on the transformer? I can buy a DPDT 110/240V switch for like $5 and can probably find dual-primary transformers if the secondary is a standard voltage like 24VAC.

Probably easier to use a step-down transformer.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #817 on: December 28, 2018, 06:07:39 pm »
As much as I prefer devices that you don't have to buy over again when moving from the US to Europe or back, there may be components besides the transformer that are specialized for each region in a modern soldering station. The control loop needs to run every AC half-cycle, and it may need different coefficients for 100 Hz and 120 Hz, so this would mean a different ROM.
 
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Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #818 on: December 28, 2018, 06:10:10 pm »
Hell, this is EEVBlog forums: anyone know the specs on the transformer? I can buy a DPDT 110/240V switch for like $5 and can probably find dual-primary transformers if the secondary is a standard voltage like 24VAC.

Probably easier to use a step-down transformer.


No fun in that

Also a good safe step down transformer is more expensive than a new soldering iron

The engineer in me bristles at having two transformers when a switch could do the job


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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #819 on: December 28, 2018, 06:43:53 pm »

No fun in that

Also a good safe step down transformer is more expensive than a new soldering iron

The engineer in me bristles at having two transformers when a switch could do the job


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Voltage converter transformers are a dime a dozen on ebay. You can get a 2,000 watt one on eBay for $55 and use it for other 120V equipment too. Doesn't have to be anything special. It's a transformer for gosh sakes!

I suppose could add another primary winding or unwind some of the secondary.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #820 on: December 28, 2018, 07:56:25 pm »
Hell, this is EEVBlog forums: anyone know the specs on the transformer? I can buy a DPDT 110/240V switch for like $5 and can probably find dual-primary transformers if the secondary is a standard voltage like 24VAC.
You can find a bit more about the transformer in this thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/my-first-pace-ads200-victim/msg1700660/#msg1700660

There is enough space to fit a ~90VA transformer inside (120va is not required since Pace only uses full power sporadically)
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #821 on: December 28, 2018, 08:09:19 pm »
You can find a bit more about the transformer in this thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/my-first-pace-ads200-victim/msg1700660/#msg1700660

There is enough space to fit a ~90VA transformer inside (120va is not required since Pace only uses full power sporadically)

So one could wind a new secondary and leave the existing secondary disconnected?
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #822 on: December 28, 2018, 09:08:47 pm »

No fun in that

Also a good safe step down transformer is more expensive than a new soldering iron

The engineer in me bristles at having two transformers when a switch could do the job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Voltage converter transformers are a dime a dozen on ebay. You can get a 2,000 watt one on eBay for $55 and use it for other 120V equipment too. Doesn't have to be anything special. It's a transformer for gosh sakes!

I suppose could add another primary winding or unwind some of the secondary.

If I'm going to do this I'm going to do this truly hackish way. Also I don't trust those shitbox ebay transformers, especially not with mains electricity on the line. I don't trust myself either, but I'm reckless.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #823 on: December 28, 2018, 09:11:11 pm »
Looking at the teardown videos, 230V station seems to have windings in series. It might be dual voltage trafo, just no switch.
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #824 on: December 28, 2018, 09:15:50 pm »
Looking at the teardown videos, 230V station seems to have windings in series. It might be dual voltage trafo, just no switch.

Interesting. Would be cool if a Pace employee could confirm -- I'm happy to make a little mod inside.

Hell, this is EEVBlog forums: anyone know the specs on the transformer? I can buy a DPDT 110/240V switch for like $5 and can probably find dual-primary transformers if the secondary is a standard voltage like 24VAC.
You can find a bit more about the transformer in this thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/my-first-pace-ads200-victim/msg1700660/#msg1700660

There is enough space to fit a ~90VA transformer inside (120va is not required since Pace only uses full power sporadically)

Nice, this is very helpful. i was looking at 120-160VA toroids and they are like $60 which is expensive but not new soldering iron expensive.

Maybe I missed it but what does it output on the secondary? 12VAC?


As much as I prefer devices that you don't have to buy over again when moving from the US to Europe or back, there may be components besides the transformer that are specialized for each region in a modern soldering station. The control loop needs to run every AC half-cycle, and it may need different coefficients for 100 Hz and 120 Hz, so this would mean a different ROM.

Yeah this would be the bad case, but I question what engineer would not simply abstract this and simply deal with zero-crossing points (I'm assuming some kind of triac control into the iron?) You already have to deal with whatever grid instability there is anyway.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 09:18:36 pm by nimish »
 


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