Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 164421 times)

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Online 2N3055

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #825 on: December 28, 2018, 09:34:11 pm »
It is simple 24V transformer, albeit of good quality.
 
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Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #826 on: December 28, 2018, 10:19:22 pm »
It is simple 24V transformer, albeit of good quality.

Awesome. I think I can cram a https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/VPT24-4170?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwUzoUXIIvyTw34uqMHR%252buIg1%2f%2fV2UEN4%3d

and then drill some holes for the DPDT slide switch.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #827 on: December 29, 2018, 02:37:16 am »
It may be easier to mount a square transformer like a Hammond 185F24

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/185F24-BULK?qs=jVNfTZ92j2tcQKKtg76oOQ%3D%3D
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #828 on: December 29, 2018, 09:10:48 am »
E/I transformers with separated bobbins have higher class insulation.
They are prefered for this kind of use. Trafo that labjr mentioned looks really good for this.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #829 on: December 29, 2018, 03:52:31 pm »
It is simple 24V transformer, albeit of good quality.

Awesome. I think I can cram a https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/VPT24-4170?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwUzoUXIIvyTw34uqMHR%252buIg1%2f%2fV2UEN4%3d

and then drill some holes for the DPDT slide switch.
Be aware that putting that 4.1 amp toroidal transformer into the case,  may cause an increase of ~2 volts AC and present up to 40 volts DC at the regulator (max allowable) and likely require a larger heat sink.. To avoid cooking the regulator with your new transformer (and maybe the whole PCB), drop the input to the regulator by 5 to 10 volts. You could do it easy with a series string of 1N400x diodes or a 7805 and a 10 ohm 2-watt resistor in current limiter configuration.

The default Pace transformer presents 33v to the regulator (at 120vac line) and almost 35v (at max 126vac line). Too close for comfort.. There's plenty of room for a larger heat sink (see attached pic)
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #830 on: December 29, 2018, 04:50:32 pm »
I'm surprised someone has not yet made a fancy drop-in control board for the ADS200?
 

Online floobydust

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #831 on: December 29, 2018, 07:30:27 pm »
Where is the firmware history for the ADS-200?
This fellow upgrades from 1.2 to 1.3 to stop temperature display readings from wandering around.
It's a socketed PLCC MCU swap.

 

Offline Bud

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #832 on: December 29, 2018, 08:36:44 pm »
I bought mine from Accessotronics (Ottawa) 3 weeks ago and it came with v1.4
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Offline hrbngr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #833 on: December 29, 2018, 10:33:50 pm »
Aaron,

Is 1.4 now the current firmware?

Also, I have not seen any discussions on this recently, but how has the tip/holder redesign worked out?  I remember that some early adopters were having trouble w/the gasket in the handle coming out of position and causing the tips to not fit properly--was this completely resolved?

thanks.
 

Offline mbless

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #834 on: December 29, 2018, 10:37:53 pm »
I'm surprised someone has not yet made a fancy drop-in control board for the ADS200?

I made my own that uses a buck converter + LDO instead of the linear regulator with heatsink. I also switched to a TFT screen so I had to make a new front panel. It's been taking forever to finish the firmware since I don't have a lot of free time for it.
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #835 on: December 30, 2018, 02:45:51 am »
It is simple 24V transformer, albeit of good quality.

Awesome. I think I can cram a https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/VPT24-4170?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwUzoUXIIvyTw34uqMHR%252buIg1%2f%2fV2UEN4%3d

and then drill some holes for the DPDT slide switch.
Be aware that putting that 4.1 amp toroidal transformer into the case,  may cause an increase of ~2 volts AC and present up to 40 volts DC at the regulator (max allowable) and likely require a larger heat sink.. To avoid cooking the regulator with your new transformer (and maybe the whole PCB), drop the input to the regulator by 5 to 10 volts. You could do it easy with a series string of 1N400x diodes or a 7805 and a 10 ohm 2-watt resistor in current limiter configuration.

The default Pace transformer presents 33v to the regulator (at 120vac line) and almost 35v (at max 126vac line). Too close for comfort.. There's plenty of room for a larger heat sink (see attached pic)

Well yeah that's the peak equivalent of 24VRMS. For a given transformer the ratio is fixed so unless I suddenly get a 135V/270V mains (bigger problems!) it'll always be under 40V. On top of that that's just the peak voltage so it's only going to need to dissipate that for a small section of the cycle. I guess I could whack in a diode, but why bother?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 02:51:43 am by nimish »
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #836 on: December 30, 2018, 03:00:47 am »
I'm surprised someone has not yet made a fancy drop-in control board for the ADS200?

I made my own that uses a buck converter + LDO instead of the linear regulator with heatsink. I also switched to a TFT screen so I had to make a new front panel. It's been taking forever to finish the firmware since I don't have a lot of free time for it.

This is super cool. Would you mind sharing more? I think pace could really use an engineer that understands UI design. I really don't understand why this sucker costs $250. Grab a decent switcher that outputs 24V, a couple of power FETs to handle switching and a $1 micro to handle the control of the LCD + power. I guess the R&D behind the handpiece and tips is a worth a good amount but the ts-100 shows that you can make entire tip-heater cartridge system for < $100. At the end of the day it's "just" a temperature controlled heating element. I'm sure Pace has 60+ years of experience for a reason, but it's fun to speculate.


 

Offline tooki

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #837 on: December 30, 2018, 03:14:55 am »
There are a lot more things that go into the cost of a product than the parts, or even R&D. Logistics, design validation, certification, overhead, marketing, warranty fulfillment, and doubtless many more I’m not even thinking of.
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #838 on: December 30, 2018, 04:00:26 am »
The ADS200 station seems like a bargain. The comparison to TS100 is not apples to apples. That thing is sold on ebay and Alibaba. It runs on batteries or an AC adapter which has to be purchased separately. It's probably not certified for commercial use. It's made in China. Probably wouldn't stand up to use for production line. Got a neat OLED display though!

Pace is made in USA. They have great support. So the UI is a bit old fashioned. It gets the job done. And leaves hobbyists with motivation to devise some good after-market mods.

Any out there think they can make it cheaper and actually do it for a livelihood?
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #839 on: December 30, 2018, 06:20:36 am »
 It is a very good price for the technology used. I am very happy with the purchase and price.
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Offline Shock

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #840 on: December 30, 2018, 07:58:06 pm »
Is 1.4 now the current firmware?
Also, I have not seen any discussions on this recently, but how has the tip/holder redesign worked out?  I remember that some early adopters were having trouble w/the gasket in the handle coming out of position and causing the tips to not fit properly--was this completely resolved?

In the 1.4 firmware it includes a smoother single digit temp control and display, the heating profile was also improved on. I'm running this and works well for me, Pace did a good job.

Tip and iron problem was solved almost straight away. Unless you were in the very first batch it won't affect you.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
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Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #841 on: December 30, 2018, 08:10:23 pm »
There are a lot more things that go into the cost of a product than the parts, or even R&D. Logistics, design validation, certification, overhead, marketing, warranty fulfillment, and doubtless many more I’m not even thinking of.


It's a basic soldering station. Pace has over half a century of experience. If they aren't making a huge net margin something is wrong. It's not rocket science.

I am happy to pay for it, I like paying for American engineering that will outlive me. But for $250 I expect things like "switchable voltage" or "firmware upgrades that don't need a chip mailed to me" or "Tft screen".

None of those would take a huge amount of extra engineering, since the Chinese have apparently been able to figure that out at a fraction of the cost.

Would be a fun project.






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Offline Bud

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #842 on: December 30, 2018, 08:30:42 pm »
Yes,yes, please go ahead and do it and share with us how it goes, and do not forget about plating the tips your fun project will be worthless without.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #843 on: December 30, 2018, 09:17:56 pm »
Obviously the margin has been cut the be more competitive with Hakko etc. So they reused the basic design of the old stations. Though, not sure why they didn't use a dual voltage transformer? Maybe has to do with protecting foreign markets? But then again Euro price sheet shows nearly identical prices. I bet Hakko does it for that reason.
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #844 on: December 30, 2018, 09:36:34 pm »
Yes,yes, please go ahead and do it and share with us how it goes, and do not forget about plating the tips your fun project will be worthless without.

 ::)  :clap:

Man you need to be less of a dick. In fact, Unisolder shows that it can be done by hobbyists.

Leverage the difficult-for-hobbyists hardware (tip fabrication, hand piece) part built by others, and exploit cheap manufacturing of PCBs + shift burden to software which is quick to iterate.

There's a reason most American manufacturers died off, they couldn't decouple their slow-moving processes from processes that needed to move faster. I hope Pace can keep up and isn't kept alive by "buy American" diehards like me.
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #845 on: December 30, 2018, 09:45:45 pm »
Obviously the margin has been cut the be more competitive with Hakko etc. So they reused the basic design of the old stations. Though, not sure why they didn't use a dual voltage transformer? Maybe has to do with protecting foreign markets? But then again Euro price sheet shows nearly identical prices. I bet Hakko does it for that reason.

Yes it's kind of baffling. They would need to stock 2 different SKUs (and they are smart enough to turn their 3 buttons into 1 assembly??) and deal with all of those supply chain problems with sourcing 2 different transformers from their supplier.

My guess is that they don't sell a lot of the 220V version for it to be worth spending the extra cost on the 110V version to have the extra winding. Of course, it's a chicken-and-egg thing: if they built a global version perhaps they could sell more globally...

I generally wonder why they bother with linear transformers when 90-120W 19V SMPS supplies are ultra cheap due to the scale of laptop manufacturing. Noise?
 

Offline labjr

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #846 on: December 30, 2018, 10:09:04 pm »
They probably use linear supplies because using switching supplies would require an entire redesign and certification etc. They've been using linear supplies forever. Why change? I still say the single voltage transformer is for market protection. Most of the larger manufacturers of soldering stations do the same. Maybe distributors won't commit to taking the line if there's a possibility of competition with gray market goods.

The ISB jack is on the back of Non-ISB stations. Why didn't they leave that off if they're trying to save cost?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 10:10:41 pm by labjr »
 

Offline helius

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #847 on: December 30, 2018, 10:49:21 pm »
I'm so excited this thread is back to bikeshedding. :popcorn:
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #848 on: December 30, 2018, 11:19:46 pm »
Obviously the margin has been cut the be more competitive with Hakko etc. So they reused the basic design of the old stations. Though, not sure why they didn't use a dual voltage transformer? Maybe has to do with protecting foreign markets? But then again Euro price sheet shows nearly identical prices. I bet Hakko does it for that reason.

Yes it's kind of baffling. They would need to stock 2 different SKUs (and they are smart enough to turn their 3 buttons into 1 assembly??) and deal with all of those supply chain problems with sourcing 2 different transformers from their supplier.

My guess is that they don't sell a lot of the 220V version for it to be worth spending the extra cost on the 110V version to have the extra winding. Of course, it's a chicken-and-egg thing: if they built a global version perhaps they could sell more globally...

I generally wonder why they bother with linear transformers when 90-120W 19V SMPS supplies are ultra cheap due to the scale of laptop manufacturing. Noise?

On Dave's teardown it can be clearly seen that 230(240)V version has two primary windings in series. It doesn't have 120/240V switch but trafo is universal, at least that one was...
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Newest Pace ADS200 station (tempting durability, and just over $200)
« Reply #849 on: December 30, 2018, 11:37:42 pm »
Yes,yes, please go ahead and do it and share with us how it goes, and do not forget about plating the tips your fun project will be worthless without.

 ::)  :clap:

Man you need to be less of a dick. In fact, Unisolder shows that it can be done by hobbyists.

Leverage the difficult-for-hobbyists hardware (tip fabrication, hand piece) part built by others, and exploit cheap manufacturing of PCBs + shift burden to software which is quick to iterate.

There's a reason most American manufacturers died off, they couldn't decouple their slow-moving processes from processes that needed to move faster. I hope Pace can keep up and isn't kept alive by "buy American" diehards like me.


Sorry to disappoint you but , from engineering standpoint, Unisolder is horrible engineering. It is horribly overspecified on BOM, left in beta stage of development, and is exactly what you call it: something being done by hobbyist, who will do it for fun doing it, and not because it will provide excellent service and be economical. And you can tweak it and experiment with it and have fun.

There is nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong, but if you buy soldering station as a tool, ADS200 is highly professional tool for a fantastic price.

I solder for 40 years, and I can tell you that I never said " oh my, I wouldn't care if my soldering iron  has enough power to melt this connector, if only I had wanky 8" touch screen that will show animations and fancy graphs..." I couldn't care less. If soldering iron had good regulation, had good tips and had enough power for the job, you would pretty much never look at the screen.
Frankly, to me it is refreshing that Pace keeps making top quality "old school" equipment, instead of new trend that behaves like pro tools should be like digital toys for gaming... More design that substance..

I'm waiting for a new thermal tweezers for ADS200 to be released, and will then buy ADS200 + tweezers. I think nothing else on market has so good price/performance.



 
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