Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 205510 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3855
  • Country: hr
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1325 on: May 12, 2020, 10:22:37 am »
- ADS200 station with MT200 and stand $979 ($700 US)

Ouch. Have they just priced themselves out of the market?
I wouldn't pay my own money for that.
The ADS200 range is supposed to be their competitive low cost production option.
They already have established high priced tweezer and other solutions.
I'm also confused with strategy here. Tweezers with stand (without controller) are more expensive than ADS200 station complete....
I expected MT200+ station to be,say, 100 € more than ADS200 set, not twice as much. I cannot be persuaded that there is a reason for MT200 to be so much more expensive than ADS200...
 
The following users thanked this post: labjr

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3580
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1326 on: May 12, 2020, 05:24:31 pm »
The ADS200 range is supposed to be their competitive low cost production option.

I think you mean Accudrive series, Paces tools are series compatible. I don't recall Pace saying the MT200 was low cost. In my opinion the Pace soldering irons and vacuum desoldering iron have a fairly low cost of ownership by comparison to the tweezers.

Most people who brought their Pace ADS200 paid under $250 in the US. The tweezers and stand are $365 at tequipment.net after eevblog discount so that would mean *both tools* and station for $615 (or about $655 if you paid the current full list from TE today). In other words don't pay full list for the MT200 with station unless you want to pay more money and forgo the free TD200 with stand. :D

Aaron told us before the MT200 soft launch it was going to cost more than the MT100. He also clearly explained back in 2018 (see below) that the ADS200 station itself was more expensive to make and was hoping to keep the ADS200/TD200 at $270 list for the ISB version initially. Here we are a couple of years later and it's at $295 list (according to tequipment at least).

...We’re just not making the amount of margin that we were on previous models!

...sticker shock for soldering stations is a very real issue for us, so we want to keep the price as low as is possible.

...Is ADS200 designed for the hobbyist? Not really, but we know the price point will be attractive to the hobbyist, more so than previous models.

…the ADS200 has about 85% parts commonality with the previous WJS 100 and ST 50 units, but actually ends up costing PACE more! The difference is that management would like to sell more stations and make more of the money on Tips and consumables rather than make higher dollars on the front-end sale.

I'm hoping they price the ADS200 station with ISB Tool Stand at $270 US, but it's not up to me ...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 05:31:33 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3855
  • Country: hr
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1327 on: May 12, 2020, 06:00:58 pm »
It is simple:
TD-200 AccuDrive Tip-Heater Cartridge Iron with Instant SetBack Tool Stand is 170 USD.
MT-200 MiniTweez with Instant SetBack Tool Stand is 407 USD.
That is 207 USD more. Stand is the same.  So handpiece is  207 USD more. I agree it should be more it's more complicated to make. But 100 USD more would be OK. 207 USD is simply too much of a difference.. You can  buy fantastic multimeter (Brymen BM869) for that kind of money...
Pricing is hard. I know, but if they make tweezers more affordable, many will buy them.. Even hobby users.
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3580
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1328 on: May 12, 2020, 08:33:43 pm »
It could be cheaper I agree but it's more of a niche tool than the soldering iron is. Wait until you buy a few sets of tweezer tips and feel the slow burn.

For the Hakko FX888D tweezers they start at $55 list upwards per pair. That is for regular non cartridge slow-swap tips for 65W tweezers. Two pairs of tips are the same price as the entire soldering station and iron. Needless to say the performance/dollar value is pretty low there.

Edit:

You need to buy the Hakko FX203 dual channel station to run their mini tweezers. It's $450 (480 list) without tools, plastic tweezers are bit more expensive than the Pace MT100 at $260 (270 list). Tips start at about $65 (75 list).

Anyway I hope that cheers you up that others out there have also brought expensive tweezers.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 09:08:40 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2854
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1329 on: May 12, 2020, 09:11:20 pm »
- Weller WXMT-MS with tips and stand $265 US
- Hakko FM2023-05 with tips, set-back stand $300 US
- Metcal CV-UK4-UFT no tips with stand $330 ($385 with tips)
- Pace MT200 with tips and set-back stand $390

I will assume that when the set of MT200 + base is in stock they will drop the $700 to ~$560. Which is probably by far the cheapest you can find a base + tweezer of this quality. But its just not the "deal" that the ADS200 is.

Quote
management would like to sell more stations and make more of the money on Tips and consumables rather than make higher dollars on the front-end sale.

If they are making a lot of money off of $14 tips, I can't even imagine the money JBC is raking in with their $60+ tips that are notoriously fragile   ;D


It could be cheaper I agree but it's more of a niche tool than the soldering iron is. Wait until you buy a few sets of tweezer tips and feel the slow burn.

For the Hakko FX888D tweezers they start at $55 list upwards per pair. That is for regular non cartridge slow-swap tips for 65W tweezers. Two pairs of tips are the same price as the entire soldering station and iron. Needless to say the performance/dollar value is pretty low there.

I agree its niche, but anyway.
Hakko T9 tips are $56, Pace MT200 tips are $50. Its not really much difference. They are both fast swap.
FX888 tweezers are low-tier, not comparable to the pace imo.
 
The following users thanked this post: Shock

Offline hrbngr

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1330 on: May 13, 2020, 02:06:06 am »
hello,

I just tested 12 brand new tips on my new ADS 200 with a Hakko FG-100 that I purchased off of Ebay. The FG-100 had calibration stickers covering one of the screw holes, but I went ahead and removed them to open the unit and confirm that it had the F/C jumper inside--which it did.

I then tested w/a brand new 191-212 sensor and I averaged from 430°F up to 450°F, but none of them ever got close to 500°. So, on a good note, it looks like all the new tips are ok, but on the other hand, are those temperatures an acceptable result?

I also ordered a FG-100 knockoff for comparison purposes from Ebay, which should be here in a few weeks, I'll re-do the tests again in °C, since the clones don't seem to do Fahrenheit. 

For each tip, i liberally applied solder (Cardas Quad-Eutectic), then placed the on the center of the three leads until it stabilized.


Before proceeding w/further tests I wanted to confirm if that is normal behavior or what exactly I should be looking for.  Also, I'll have the 2nd clone tester to confirm temps soon.

Here are the list of tips:
P/N 1130-0015-P1 1/64" Conical Sharp Bent 30°
P/N 1131-0008-P1 3/64" 30° Chisel (1.20mm)
P/N 1131-0019-P1 1/16" 30° Chisel (1.59mm)
P/N 1131-0010-P1 13/64" Chisel (5.15mm)
P/N 1131-0037-P1 1/4" Flat Blade (6.35mm)
P/N 1131-0012-P1 1/32" 30° Chisel (0.80mm)
P/N 1131-0013-P1 3/32" 30° Chisel (2.38mm)
P/N 1131-0051-P1 1/8" 30° Chisel (3.18mm)
P/N 1131-0032-P1 MiniWave (3.05mm)
P/N 1131-0003-P1 1/64" Conical Sharp Bent 30° (0.40mm)
P/N 1131-0001-P1 1/32" Conical Sharp Ext. (0.80mm)
P/N 1131-0054-P1 3/16" Chisel (4.78mm)
P/N 1131-0057-P1 5/16" Chisel (7.95mm)
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33275
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1331 on: May 13, 2020, 03:25:22 am »
I think you mean Accudrive series, Paces tools are series compatible. I don't recall Pace saying the MT200 was low cost.

No, but it's clearly part of the Accudrive serious and uses the same ADS200 base station. So there is reasonable expectation there.

Quote
Most people who brought their Pace ADS200 paid under $250 in the US. The tweezers and stand are $365 at tequipment.net after eevblog discount so that would mean *both tools* and station for $615 (or about $655 if you paid the current full list from TE today).

Yeah but then you have the switch tools with the one station and that's a PITA.
Most people (myself included) are going to want another ADS200 to drive just the tweezers.
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3580
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1332 on: May 13, 2020, 08:22:50 am »
No, but it's clearly part of the Accudrive serious and uses the same ADS200 base station. So there is reasonable expectation there.

I don't think anyone was discussing the price of the MT200. In my opinion it's got to be at least 3x as much to make than the TD200 you can tell that just looking at it. When Aaron said that the MT200 was going to cost more than the old model I knew it was likely going to be more than the cost of the ADS200/TD200 at the time.

Why was the ADS200/TD200 ISB selling for about $225? It was triple discounted. Pace had a low introductory list price $265, tequipment was selling it on special and we had the eevblog 6% discount code on top.

That ended up being about $40 cheaper than list and now that Pace are not discounting the list price it's increased about $30. The total apparent savings was about $70 off a $295 station and iron.

On Tequipments website it clearly showed the discounted price and Aaron posted Paces list prices here several times. So no conspiracy theories. :D

Most people (myself included) are going to want another ADS200 to drive just the tweezers.

I'm sure they will sell the station separately at some point as they have in the past but it's up to Pace. I expect there will be at least 5 different Accudrive station models at a minimum.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2854
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1333 on: May 14, 2020, 08:38:04 pm »
I then tested w/a brand new 191-212 sensor and I averaged from 430°F up to 450°F, but none of them ever got close to 500°. So, on a good note, it looks like all the new tips are ok, but on the other hand, are those temperatures an acceptable result?

So you measured 430-450, but what was the iron set to?

Sounds reasonable, depending on what tips you measured low with. The smaller tips will be difficult to get enough thermal conductivity so the heat transfer to the thermocouple can be less. This is basically unavoidable when you have a separate heater element coupled to the tip that cannot extend to the end of it.
 

Offline hrbngr

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1334 on: May 14, 2020, 11:59:17 pm »
thm_w,

sorry for leaving that part out.

the ADS200 was set to 500F.  I had thought that the bigger tips would get close to that temperature, but they only seemed to about 450F.

Is the key point that the tips should all be in a similar range, w/the smaller ones lower temps than the larger ones, vs every tip matching the temperature of the station setting?
 

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2854
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1335 on: May 15, 2020, 08:44:13 pm »
thm_w,

sorry for leaving that part out.

the ADS200 was set to 500F.  I had thought that the bigger tips would get close to that temperature, but they only seemed to about 450F.

Is the key point that the tips should all be in a similar range, w/the smaller ones lower temps than the larger ones, vs every tip matching the temperature of the station setting?

That seems far off. It could be your measurement device is not accurate, tip is not making good contact with thermocouple, or there is a calibration issue with the station.

Correct on the second point. Most tips should be quite close but a very thin or long tip can be lower. Unless there is some magic they've managed to implement.
 

Offline dman777

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 21
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1336 on: May 21, 2020, 11:51:22 pm »
I bought a Pace ADS200 station and it came in today. The unit is really nice. But one thing really makes me upset was the way it was packaged. The main unit, which is very heavy(a good thing), was unsecured in it's cardboard compartment and tossed around. It tossed around so much it tore one of the walls of the cardboard compartment and bent the cardboard compartment roof lid some. There was no bubble wrap.

This is a really nice unit, but for $315(got the tips with it) I feel like it should of been packaged properly not to be tossed around during shipping.

Is this normal for Pace to ship the ADS200 like this? Anyone else have the same experience?
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3580
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1337 on: May 22, 2020, 08:06:25 am »
It sounds like yours had a rough time with delivery as mine were ok. If you want to send Pace feedback you can email support@paceworldwide.com with some photos.

My stations didn't have bubble wrap around them, just plastic with the compartmentalized cardboard. If yours was really messed up it probably did its job at some point. Mine were similar to what you see here, the cardboard acts as a dampener so don't expect it to come out looking perfect.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: dman777

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3855
  • Country: hr
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1338 on: May 22, 2020, 09:02:17 am »
Mine came pretty much picture perfect, with no distortion at all..
 
The following users thanked this post: dman777

Offline dman777

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 21
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1339 on: May 23, 2020, 12:59:42 am »
I was looking again and I see that there are two cardboard straps that hold the solder station up in the air to keep it from getting impacts from the ground. Those tore also.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 02:09:06 am by dman777 »
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1340 on: May 24, 2020, 09:29:13 pm »
I am on the fence between this and Hakko. What is instant setback stand ? Does the station go to sleep without it ?
 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3855
  • Country: hr
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1341 on: May 24, 2020, 10:00:35 pm »
I am on the fence between this and Hakko. What is instant setback stand ? Does the station go to sleep without it ?
It's better than Hakko..
ISB stand is there so it can instantly know when you put it on/off stand.
Without it it will also go to auto standby, but ISB stand is more important for instant resume when you lift it from stand.
Without ISB stand, you need to either touch buttons on station, or dip it in damp sponge to create thermal shock for station to detect activity, to start heating at full power again. With ISB cubby, you simply lift it, and by the time you get iron close to position to solder it is up to temp...
Price difference is not that big, I wouldn't get one without ISB.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1342 on: May 24, 2020, 11:55:36 pm »
For me the price difference would be around $70. But looking at the videos I assumed I can hack something together:  https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=380
Does anyone know what kind of sensor is it ?
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3580
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1343 on: May 25, 2020, 12:22:43 am »
Here is a quick guide to the differences:

Pace ADS200 (120W power)
All metal construction station, stand and handpiece, easy to use interface, clear and easy to read display, cheap and reliable tips which come in two series standard, and ultra (which have more mass). The handpiece is made from one piece of extruded aluminum, it's very robust, cool running and swapping tips is easy. Pace just released new MT200 tweezers for the station.

Hakko FX951 (75W power)
Plastic station, part metal stand, plastic handpiece, poor interface, small display, tips ok reliability but more expensive than Pace. Only takes standard tips. Handpiece is overly complex and feels like it could easily break while swapping tips. They have a dumb tip swapping method which requires you to buy more (dirt absorbing) sponge/plastic sleeves so there is a hidden expense. Has a key card system that will lock you out if you lose it and it sits right below buttons, the station beeps at you as well, both of these features are quite annoying. No tweezers run on the FX951.

So in summary there is no real reason you would buy the Hakko. The Pace is  faster, more powerful, cheaper to run and easier to use.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3580
  • Country: au
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1344 on: May 25, 2020, 01:05:58 am »
For me the price difference would be around $70. But looking at the videos I assumed I can hack something together:  https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=380
Does anyone know what kind of sensor is it ?

If you are talking about the instant setback it's a micro switch and the cable attaches to the rear of the station. It's been discussed a few times in this thread and people have DIYed them. If you go back a few pages you can find photos.

If you are in the US look at buying from tequipment.net as eevblog gets a 6% discount code. The price difference with the instant setback stand version is $20 at the moment. TE also do free shipping so if you buy the station and the tips together at the one place it should be the cheapest.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:07:42 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline labjr

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1345 on: May 25, 2020, 01:15:29 am »
For me the price difference would be around $70. But looking at the videos I assumed I can hack something together:  https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=380
Does anyone know what kind of sensor is it ?

In post #1233, a member showed how to use a simple low cost sensor module you can get on ebay for less than a dollar.

https://bit.ly/2WYR16X
 

Offline karamba

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1346 on: May 25, 2020, 03:48:39 am »
Thanks, just placed an order.I think for the amount of work I do once in a while, a KSGER or other hakko clone would be more than enough but I though I would loose a discussion about ethics.
Back to the point, from the schematic it looks like any on/off switch would do either mechanical or optical, even maybe extrasensorial.  Shouldn't be a problem.
 
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6723
  • Country: ch
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1347 on: May 25, 2020, 05:46:31 am »
In that case, the Pace will literally last you a lifetime. (I’ve never even heard of a Pace station failing, even when severely abused!) Good choice!

I’m trying to figure out how to justify getting one for myself, despite having a perfectly adequate Ersa station already! 😂
 

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2854
  • Country: ca
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1348 on: May 25, 2020, 05:10:14 pm »
If buying the ADS200 today can use ebays 20% off coupon: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pace-ADS200-AccuDrive-Production-Soldering-Station-8007-0578/184278679885
Should come to ~$192 shipped in the US.



Hakko FX951 (75W power)
Plastic station, part metal stand, plastic handpiece, poor interface, small display, tips ok reliability but more expensive than Pace. Only takes standard tips. Handpiece is overly complex and feels like it could easily break while swapping tips. They have a dumb tip swapping method which requires you to buy more (dirt absorbing) sponge/plastic sleeves so there is a hidden expense. Has a key card system that will lock you out if you lose it and it sits right below buttons, the station beeps at you as well, both of these features are quite annoying. No tweezers run on the FX951.

So in summary there is no real reason you would buy the Hakko. The Pace is  faster, more powerful, cheaper to run and easier to use.

Not a hakko fanboy especially their handle, and I agree I'd buy the ADS. 
But I've used handpieces for years without issue, and I'm not sure why swapping the tip requires buying foam sleeves? If you are talking about the grip its made of some kind of rubber, it doesn't get dirty. Its possible to pop the top of the Hakko handle off, then grab the base of the tip to remove it, no sponge or tools are required at all. Compared to Pace/metcal where you need a silicone mat to grab the hot tip.

Hakko tips are much cheaper than Pace if you get the clones, or similar price for genuine ($15). Of course the more advanced T12 tips are more expensive, thats where Pace is cheaper. Quality of Pace tips is likely higher.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:11:21 pm by thm_w »
 

Offline E-D-P

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: us
Re: Pace ADS200 solder station. Production-grade quality at about $200
« Reply #1349 on: May 25, 2020, 07:33:49 pm »
If buying the ADS200 today can use ebays 20% off coupon: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pace-ADS200-AccuDrive-Production-Soldering-Station-8007-0578/184278679885
Should come to ~$192 shipped in the US.

I just tried eBay's Memorial Day 20% discount code.  Sadly, it doesn't work for the ADS200 linked above.  That would have been a screaming deal...
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf