Author Topic: Pace ADS200 soldering station  (Read 431096 times)

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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1875 on: April 29, 2024, 08:20:24 am »
There is a true two-channel AT420 hot tweezer with some 160 Watts. PACE has no such hot tweezer.

According to JBC they have no such hot tweezer either.

160W exceeds the DI, DDE and DME rated channel power. The DI is only 130W total, the DDE (a 2 channel station) rated 190W total, based on that alone I would not be claiming "true two-channel" or "160W" anything.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1876 on: April 29, 2024, 10:56:17 am »
Soldering station manufacturers do seem to love playing games with power ratings, don’t they?
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1877 on: April 30, 2024, 12:10:13 am »
Its a small mistake by Hydrawerk:
- AT420/HT420 are rated 80W max per cartridge
- DDE control unit is rated 150W per tool

So peak power draw would be 150W instead of 160W. Thermocouple feedback is per cartridge as mentioned.

But yes the "power spec wars" tend to confuse the masses. Which is why people like Project Farm and SDG are so valuable IMO.
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1878 on: April 30, 2024, 07:24:57 am »
Its a small mistake by Hydrawerk:
- AT420/HT420 are rated 80W max per cartridge
- DDE control unit is rated 150W per tool

So peak power draw would be 150W instead of 160W. Thermocouple feedback is per cartridge as mentioned.

But yes the "power spec wars" tend to confuse the masses. Which is why people like Project Farm and SDG are so valuable IMO.

Funny thing is that on their web site https://www.jbctools.com/ they don't even specify power for cartridges.... Can you please point me to a place/document where JBC even specifies the cartridge power. They do for stations but I can't seem to find specification for tips...
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1879 on: April 30, 2024, 08:52:23 pm »
Funny thing is that on their web site https://www.jbctools.com/ they don't even specify power for cartridges.... Can you please point me to a place/document where JBC even specifies the cartridge power. They do for stations but I can't seem to find specification for tips...

Tips aren't specified no. I just assume they all use the power available, software limited by the handle or station value, as the cold tip resistance is super low (2.4 to 2.5 ohm for 245/420).
ADS200 cold tip resistance is 4-4.2 ohm. About 135W at 24Vdc.

AT420: https://www.jbctools.com/pdf/manual-at420-adjustable-tweezers-0030510_ID-229722.pdf
DDE: https://www.jbctools.com/pdf/manual-dde-control-unit-0027023_ID-222436.pdf
HT470: 250W per cartridge, but thats just obscene: https://www.jbctools.com/pdf/manual-ht470-thermal-tweezers-0029612_ID-229658.pdf
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Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1880 on: May 01, 2024, 07:26:53 am »
If I recall correctly the Pace ADS200 supplies roughly 30V DC to the heater not 24V.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1881 on: May 01, 2024, 10:26:46 am »
If I recall correctly the Pace ADS200 supplies roughly 30V DC to the heater not 24V.
Not quite. Looking at the schematic, it powers the heater with full-wave rectified*, but unsmoothed voltage from the transformer, so the peak voltage will be around 30V, but the RMS voltage is 24V, the same as the unrectified 24V AC. They then do zero-crossing detection to only switch at 0V.

The same rectified AC then goes through a diode and from that point is smoothed with a capacitor, creating a 30V DC rail which then powers the 7805 to generate the +5V rail for all the control circuits.


*Through a full-bridge MOSFET rectifier, so no diode drop losses! :)
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1882 on: May 01, 2024, 12:24:22 pm »
Looking at the schematic,

Where are you seeing a schematic for the ADS 200?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1883 on: May 01, 2024, 12:43:29 pm »
I was talking 30V DC peak (loaded) measured from the handpiece on a scope. Would vary a little based on the mains supply but that would be adjusted for in the stations temp regulation.

Bdunham7 there isn't an official one, Mbless drew one after the station was released, prior to working on his own controller.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg1742054/#msg1742054
« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 12:46:08 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1884 on: May 01, 2024, 02:05:19 pm »
I was talking 30V DC peak (loaded) measured from the handpiece on a scope. Would vary a little based on the mains supply but that would be adjusted for in the stations temp regulation.

Bdunham7 there isn't an official one, Mbless drew one after the station was released, prior to working on his own controller.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg1742054/#msg1742054
clickable URL (The stupid forum software hates dollar signs in URLs if not manually wrapped in URL tags.)
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1885 on: May 01, 2024, 09:32:14 pm »
Yeah there is no capacitance on that VAA rail shown in the schematic, 30V peak then RMS would be less, 21.21V in this case not 24V as I had used.
21V RMS, then absolute maximum peak power is ~112W.

If there is capacitance, then RMS would be higher. You'd need to measure the scope waveform.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 09:34:17 pm by thm_w »
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Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1886 on: May 02, 2024, 06:50:37 am »
Yeah there is no capacitance on that VAA rail shown in the schematic, 30V peak then RMS would be less, 21.21V in this case not 24V as I had used.
21V RMS, then absolute maximum peak power is ~112W.
I haven’t been able to find any actual specs on heater voltage or resistance, nor any measurements, but it does not follow from a lower voltage that the power would be lower, since they will have designed the heaters to match the voltage they chose.

If there is capacitance, then RMS would be higher. You'd need to measure the scope waveform.
Yes, but there is no capacitance, and since the design relies on zero-crossing detection, there cannot be any capacitance on VAA.
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1887 on: May 02, 2024, 09:43:24 pm »
I haven’t been able to find any actual specs on heater voltage or resistance, nor any measurements, but it does not follow from a lower voltage that the power would be lower, since they will have designed the heaters to match the voltage they chose.

4 to 4.2 ohms as mentioned above. I measured 4.24 ohms. Real world slightly more due to wire, contact, and other resistances.

Heater resistance should have been designed lower, 3.5 ohms or so. Or transformer voltage higher, etc.
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1888 on: May 02, 2024, 11:53:36 pm »
I haven’t been able to find any actual specs on heater voltage or resistance, nor any measurements, but it does not follow from a lower voltage that the power would be lower, since they will have designed the heaters to match the voltage they chose.

4 to 4.2 ohms as mentioned above. I measured 4.24 ohms. Real world slightly more due to wire, contact, and other resistances.

Heater resistance should have been designed lower, 3.5 ohms or so. Or transformer voltage higher, etc.

I'm measuring 4.9-5.0 ohms on mine at the connector, including an large chisel Ultra tip.  At the cartridge contacts 4.6-4.7 ohms.  I didn't note any power difference between the Ultra and standard tips.  If they can deliver 24VRMS to the connector, then you have 115-125W at the connector with about 7W getting lost in the wiring.  That means that they might not have had to alter either the transformer or the tips to make the improvements.  It will be interesting to see what changes they have made just as soon as someone tears one down. 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2024, 01:03:23 am by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline pope

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1889 on: May 03, 2024, 12:14:05 pm »
It will be interesting to see what changes they have made just as soon as someone tears one down.

It would be nice if PACE was showing some transparency and let the people know. Sales speech doesn't help much.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1890 on: May 04, 2024, 05:33:32 am »
Manufacturers don't tend to publish detailed technical changes between models, or even board revisions. Back when schematics were supplied they rarely did then either, you had to figure it out yourself.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline pope

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1891 on: May 04, 2024, 02:18:53 pm »
Manufacturers don't tend to publish detailed technical changes between models, or even board revisions. Back when schematics were supplied they rarely did then either, you had to figure it out yourself.

Well fair enough but the problem is that a sales speech won't convince me to upgrade/buy the newer version.
 

Offline pac1085

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1892 on: June 15, 2024, 09:48:46 pm »
I've been wanting to buy another power supply so I can have one dedicated to the tweezers I bought separately.  Maybe I'll buy a plus (gotta make sure the vendor will actually send me a plus) and take a look inside.  The firmware on an ADS200 is stored on the Atmel 89C51RB2, trying to figure out how to read that with this Xgecu T48 I purchased recently.  They have a definition for the RD2 which is the 64K version but not the RB2 (16K)
I'm guessing it's locked though? I don't know much about this stuff.
Would be cool if its just a new firmware...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2024, 10:11:41 pm by pac1085 »
 

Offline pope

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1893 on: June 16, 2024, 08:01:23 am »
I've been wanting to buy another power supply so I can have one dedicated to the tweezers I bought separately.  Maybe I'll buy a plus (gotta make sure the vendor will actually send me a plus) and take a look inside.  The firmware on an ADS200 is stored on the Atmel 89C51RB2, trying to figure out how to read that with this Xgecu T48 I purchased recently.  They have a definition for the RD2 which is the 64K version but not the RB2 (16K)
I'm guessing it's locked though? I don't know much about this stuff.
Would be cool if its just a new firmware...

Thanks, please let us know if you end up buying the plus version.

Quote
Would be cool if its just a new firmware...

Would be even cooler if PACE let current and potential users know what has changed.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1894 on: June 16, 2024, 08:41:39 am »
Quote
Would be cool if its just a new firmware...

Would be even cooler if PACE let current and potential users know what has changed.
Has anyone actually asked? Pace seems like the kind of company that would tell us, given how open they’ve been in the past.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Pace ADS200 soldering station
« Reply #1895 on: June 20, 2024, 10:26:36 pm »
Probably both hardware and firmware was changed.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 10:28:12 pm by Hydrawerk »
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