Reliable Soldering Station for "Pseudo-Hobbyist"?

[PlainName]

Just as a contrary view...

I use a Weller WD2M base with WMRP iron and WMRT tweezers. The WD2M is obsolete but the irons are compatible with both that and the current WX base. The initial setup isn't cheap but you can plug in the well-known and very decent WSP80 iron, clones of which are available cheap and the tips almost throw away prices. The WMxx (or WXxx if the new stuff) tips aren't so cheap but very good. Tips range from a size suitable for 0402 resistors to 200W brazing torch (slight hyperbole) and the heating technology ranges from 'active tip' where the sensor is as close to the work as can be physically, 'power response' where it's under the plating and back a bit, to 'silver-line' which is old tech 'where the bit meets the heater'. Heat-up times accordingly vary from quite fast but best not to turn it to idle temperature too soon, to "3 secs from 50C to 350C".

I like the tweezers which are tiny things that actually help rather than get in the way (I believe thingy at NorthridgeFix uses them and raved about them in one episode).

[tooki]

ERSA is expensive and outdated. Weller has some cartridge soldering irons, but I am not sure what they are like. Weller base stations are made of plastic.
JBC is overengineered but has a great heat performance. Some base stations are made of metal I think. I use it at work.

Ersa doesn’t use cartridge heaters, yet manages to achieve similar performance in real-world use. I’ve used both Ersa and JBC professionally, and they’re honestly both great. Ersa’s tips are FAR, FAR cheaper and last longer, and I prefer the Ersa’s shorter tip-to-grip distance and shorter handle. JBC has a much larger selection of tips, but they’re expensive so actually enjoying that large selection is very costly. They heat trivially faster, which makes no difference at all in real use. The only real advantage to the JBC cartridge heater system is that it’s easier to swap tips while hot. You have to be careful when hot swapping Ersa tips.

[Arts]

I was able to compare the JBC CD-1BE vs the Pace ADS200 at the local distributor, from ultra-light pinpoint work to huge terminal lugs. After an hour or so of playing around, I realized that the JBC far and  away outperformed the Pace, so that was what I bought. This was a few years back, when the Pace was substantially cheaper, but I was willing to pay for the higher performance of the JBC.

Frankly, I would have bought another Pace WJS-100, but it was being discontinued at the time. The WJS-100 blows away the ADS200, which seems to be more of a hobbyist machine than for professional use.

[thm_w]

Frankly, I would have bought another Pace WJS-100, but it was being discontinued at the time. The WJS-100 blows away the ADS200, which seems to be more of a hobbyist machine than for professional use.

Which is bizarre, its supposed to replace it. Specs are the same (120W).
Do you still have the WJS-100? Did you ever measure power drawn from the wall during heating/soldering compared to the JBC?

[Arts]

Frankly, I would have bought another Pace WJS-100, but it was being discontinued at the time. The WJS-100 blows away the ADS200, which seems to be more of a hobbyist machine than for professional use.

Which is bizarre, its supposed to replace it. Specs are the same (120W).
Do you still have the WJS-100? Did you ever measure power drawn from the wall during heating/soldering compared to the JBC?

The difference between the internals of the WJS vs the ADS is really night and day.

I still have the WJS-100, and find it very close in performance to the JBC, although the tip area is bulkier with the Pace HP tip. Never compared power drain, but I would imagine it to be similar based on cold-startup times and the ability to source vast amounts of heat very rapidly.

[tooki]

The difference between the internals of the WJS vs the ADS is really night and day.

Meaning what?

[Shock]

You can see the tip heating speed from cold is in the same ballpark. Just different heating profiles, it's less overshooting than JBC and tapers near set temp. JBC seems not to which means their station runs hotter, not necessarily just due to performance alone.

Ersa would be an extreme example of this with it's profiles, I think SDG measured about an 80C overshoot, it does though show this on screen and allows you to turn overshoot off which makes it behave more like the Pace ADS200. JBC why you no show overshoot? You confuse peoples!

I don't see anything wrong with the circuit it's just more modern and redesigned, and very simple considering it runs Paces tweezers as well.

Edit:

As to why the WJS100 is similar to JBC I'm unsure, I've not used one but I have an MBT350. The Intelliheat standard series is surprisingly fast only a bit slower than the Accudrive on some tips. By comparison it's about twice as fast as the Hakko FX951.

[2N3055]

My ADS200 goes from dead cold (room temp) to 330°C in about 8 sec. And that is for high thermal small (2mm) and large (5mm) chisel tip.
Smaller conical tip (1mm) does the same in 6 sec.. same tip goes from STNDBY to 330°C in a bit over 2 sec..
That is as much time as I need to refocus my view to the point to solder after grabbing iron and solder...

I really don't know how much faster it should be to make a difference in real life...

As for performance, i find it's tips wetting better than JBC. Maybe JBC tips oxidize faster because they are running it at higher temp than stated.
I tried an experiment  and PACE had pretty much same performance as JBC if you set ADS200 to slightly higher temp to make is roughly the same as JBC with their artificially higher temps .... Basically if you set JBC to 330° it will be that when unloaded but as soon you start soldering it will go to 350-360°C.
PACE will still try to regulate 330°C. If you set PACE to 350°C it will perform the same... JBC is cheating..

Also ADS200 have more ergonomic handle. It is cold even after 10 hours of use. And tip to handle distance is smaller than JBC245 series.

As I sad, as soon as you go over certain limit, there is a point of diminishing returns. Choice should be made based on price, availability of tips in certain country etc.. Practical stuff.  And like with anything else, no manufacturer does everything perfect. Metcal has good performance, but fixed temp tips. JBC has this done well and this not... Same for everybody. Trick is to figure out what works for you.

Performance wise, old 60W Weller Magnastat had enough performance for normal soldering. If it didn't that meant special soldering of high mass components or high thermal mass board that needs preheating.

[thm_w]

I tried an experiment  and PACE had pretty much same performance as JBC if you set ADS200 to slightly higher temp to make is roughly the same as JBC with their artificially higher temps .... Basically if you set JBC to 330° it will be that when unloaded but as soon you start soldering it will go to 350-360°C.
PACE will still try to regulate 330°C. If you set PACE to 350°C it will perform the same... JBC is cheating..

Pace is regulating the thermocouple to 330C, which is fine, but it means the end of the tip temp could be well below 330 under load.
JBC and maybe ersa are presumably using a different algorithm to attempt to regulate the end of the tip to 330C, which is never going to be perfect, and won't work with so many different tip types.

I don't disagree that its cheating, but Aixun (at least the version SDG tested) did not have any overshoot, yet performance was still very good: youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg (12:15)

[tooki]

I tried an experiment  and PACE had pretty much same performance as JBC if you set ADS200 to slightly higher temp to make is roughly the same as JBC with their artificially higher temps .... Basically if you set JBC to 330° it will be that when unloaded but as soon you start soldering it will go to 350-360°C.
PACE will still try to regulate 330°C. If you set PACE to 350°C it will perform the same... JBC is cheating..

Pace is regulating the thermocouple to 330C, which is fine, but it means the end of the tip temp could be well below 330 under load.
JBC and maybe ersa are presumably using a different algorithm to attempt to regulate the end of the tip to 330C, which is never going to be perfect, and won't work with so many different tip types.

I don't disagree that its cheating, but Aixun (at least the version SDG tested) did not have any overshoot, yet performance was still very good: youtube.com/watch?v=26KXtHZqhMg (12:15)

The difference is that Ersa display the true temperature — including overshoot — on the display, while JBC bullshits with a slow real temperature display that makes it look really good when in fact it’s overshooting significantly. (I once tested a brand new JBC with a soldering tip thermometer that on Ersa and Pace agreed exactly, and it measured almost 20C higher than the digital set point.)

[thm_w]

Yeah absolutely. Its a pervasive issue for soldering irons and hot air stations. Hiding the "real" temperature from you. At the same time, some smoothing is desirable so the display doesn't constantly bounce around. The advantage of a graphical LCD is you can have "set" and "actual" temp both displayed.

But again measured temp might be higher than the real tip temp, unless using a tip thermometer as you have done.

Its worse on hot air stations as the measured temp is the actual air temperature, at most, and hiding/clipping it can result in roasted parts.

[Shock]

Pace is regulating the thermocouple to 330C, which is fine, but it means the end of the tip temp could be well below 330 under load

The power delivery of the station to the heater is regulated, the thermocouple doesn't regulate at all. I hope the tip temp goes below 330C set temp when soldering otherwise physics breaks or they are cheating.

[tooki]

Pace is regulating the thermocouple to 330C, which is fine, but it means the end of the tip temp could be well below 330 under load

The power delivery of the station to the heater is regulated, the thermocouple doesn't regulate at all. I hope the tip temp goes below 330C set temp when soldering otherwise physics breaks or they are cheating.

I think you misread what you’re responding to — it’s not saying that the thermocouple is doing the regulated. It (the station) is regulating (the temperature of) the thermocouple to 330C.

Your statement that the power delivery is regulated seems incorrect to me: the system regulates the temperature (that’s what you set!), not the power (which it adjusts in order to maintain regulation). We don’t set the wattage on the front panel, we set the temperature.

thm_w’s point is that the place where the temperature is regulated is the place where it is measured, and that’s the thermocouple.

[MathWizard]

I'm happy with my Hakko FX-888, except I'd like to change 2 things. 1) make the temp control setting easier to change. Maybe even a knob ? Maybe some one has modded theirs, I'd like to try some day. How much more more would it have cost them to do that?

Also it's too easy for the iron to not fully sit in the holder, and the tip will just about touch the back of the holder. So I want to file out a notch for the tip.

[Electro Fan]

I'm happy with my Hakko FX-888, except I'd like to change 2 things. 1) make the temp control setting easier to change. Maybe even a knob ? Maybe some one has modded theirs, I'd like to try some day. How much more more would it have cost them to do that?

Also it's too easy for the iron to not fully sit in the holder, and the tip will just about touch the back of the holder. So I want to file out a notch for the tip.

  
Hakko could make those 2 changes and call it a FX-890

[rdl]

The original FX-888 had a knob, but no digital temperature display. I bought one, open box, never used, about 10 years ago for super cheap (actually free) just in case my 937 ever quit working (it never has).

[Shock]

Yeah back then you could probably get an FX888 for about $30 secondhand. People came to realize the buttons were a bit annoying on the FX888D. Might be hard to mod as there is little space for a rotary encoder at least on the front panel and the other issue the weird key press combinations don't lend well to an easy mod so would likely need new firmware.

There is this project here I'd not spend too much on it though. https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Digital-Soldering-Station/

Dave still has his FX888 I think.

[Solder_Junkie]

“If your issue is thermal capacity”, the answer is a basic soldering iron, such as the 25W Antex XS25. Don’t be fooled by the low Wattage, it has more capacity than a 70W Weller. The secret is the amount of metal in the bit.

[thm_w]

“If your issue is thermal capacity”, the answer is a basic soldering iron, such as the 25W Antex XS25. Don’t be fooled by the low Wattage, it has more capacity than a 70W Weller. The secret is the amount of metal in the bit.

It may work in some situations. I haven't had much luck with that style of iron personally.

Quote from thermaltronics:

The Power Plus version of the tips will have more copper mass which means the tip will have more stored energy.

Advantage: when the tip initially touches onto a solder pad, the stored energy will immediately go into the solder pad and help heat it up, this is great for ground pins that suck up a lot of heat
Disadvantage: once the initially stored energy is used up, the tip will slowdown, so if you are doing quick successful point to point soldering the normal M7B325 may perform better.