Rigol DS1052E Annual Service (Knob Problem)

[Mechatrommer]

last night i had a time to do yearly service on my rigol scope since i want to value it, and 3 knobs already become erratic (but still usable, but annoying). i did clean up all the encoders (knob) since the first try is a success, and i dont wanna to reopen it again soon in case the "now working" buttons become erratic in near future. so now i have all the six knobs/encoders rejuvenated, working like new! no more accidental annoying help menu popped up AFAICT. lets see how long this repair will last.

my conclusion why its become erratic. the lubricant inside spilling around the encoder strips screwing connectivity, possibly damaging the accompanying diodes... related threads:
Problem with rigol scope knob
Replacing RIGOL DS1052E DSO rotary encoders

Happy New Year!

[saturation]

Thanks mecha, good photos for reference in the future.

[wkb]

Just wondering here: how much has this Rigol been used in order to require this kind of surgery?

Wilko

[Mechatrommer]

Just wondering here: how much has this Rigol been used in order to require this kind of surgery?
Wilko

my rigol bought 2 years ago. 1 knob start playing up about 1 year ago iirc. after 2 years, 3 knobs degraded. usage not so heavy, maybe something like once every week averaged throughout this 2 years, just a rough guess. FWIW, it is 2.02 FW.

[wkb]

Thank you.  Hm, not stellar stuff these knobs apparantly.  My 25-30 year old Tek's have none of this, and
that is after hard professional use in a repair workshop

Wilko

[alm]

That's crap quality, that means the thing would only last a few months with professional day-to-day use. Either they specced cheap encoders or screwed up on the debouncing.

[Mechatrommer]

That's crap quality, that means the thing would only last a few months with professional day-to-day use. Either they specced cheap encoders or screwed up on the debouncing.

i hope it was the lubricant screwing things up. i got rid of it and its now ok. i will be looking forward for physical damage of the encoder such as damaged strips or lost elasticity in spring contact that made it beyond repair. i did leave lubricant on the top side though to keep it smooth scrolling (copper part 2nd picture) sometime a simple thing like this in cheap product can make a big issue, esp to "professional" (busy people). i wonder though why Dave and many others never complain about this. maybe this is only happen to few people only.

[ivan747]

That's crap quality, that means the thing would only last a few months with professional day-to-day use. Either they specced cheap encoders or screwed up on the debouncing.

None of them are unfixable problems. You can replace the knobs with better quality ones, if replacements are available, and you can expect a software update to fix the debouncing issue. In case the debouncing is done in hardware, then changing some components on the low pass filter or whatever is used to debounce the encoders should fix it. Anyway, I just hope these bad encoders were only used in a small batch of scopes. Anyway, they should change their encoders to better quality ones.

[Mechatrommer]

None of them are unfixable problems. (1) You can replace the knobs with better quality ones, if replacements are available, and you can (3) expect a software update to fix the debouncing issue. In case the debouncing is done in hardware, then (1) changing some components on the low pass filter or whatever is used to debounce the encoders should fix it. Anyway, I just hope these bad encoders were only used in a small batch of scopes. Anyway, (2) they should change their encoders to better quality ones.

(1) wont gonna happen in multK$ scope. if it does, they will be alot unluckier than ds1052e owner. but luckily, i never heard about it.
(2) will gonna happen in multK$ scope
(3) ok, both lower and multK$ end scope got this issue (FW fix)

[vl400]

The horizontal timebase on my DS1052 started playing up so took the easy way out and just replaced it with a new one (used this part number https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1245.msg16009#msg16009) - never had an issue after that.

EDIT: Post #5 in the linked thread

[oliver602]

The horizontal scale knob on my rigol was noticeably flaky out of the box brand new. It's not unusable, just rather anoying.

[saturation]

So far have not had problems with the encoders.   Just to balance this thread out.

Given the lack of loud complaints from other users, who likely would not let an annoying issue slip by and not get posted on eevblog, I think its more just poor QC for the encoder maker. 

[hacklordsniper]

Not regarding the encoder but last 10 or so DS1052E-s that passed trough my hands developed a splitting knob problem in few days of use. I had no complaints on the encoder in last year

[ddrl46]

I started having this problem after only a month or two of hardly any use, I'll probably try cleaning the encoders or replace them with something better.

[DaveW]

Interesting to see this isn't an isolated problem, I've got (access to) 3 DS1102Es and have had two small small knobs split on one as well as the horizontal knob falling out on another; on inspection there was no retainer, so dropped an email to Batronix, they're replacing it and the split ones. Am tempted to find some nicer replacement ones that don't have this problem...

[Mechatrommer]

Interesting to see this isn't an isolated problem

it is an isolated "batch" i believe. it does not happen to earlier and later batch.

[Simon]

That's crap quality, that means the thing would only last a few months with professional day-to-day use. Either they specced cheap encoders or screwed up on the debouncing.

None of them are unfixable problems. You can replace the knobs with better quality ones, if replacements are available, and you can expect a software update to fix the debouncing issue. In case the debouncing is done in hardware, then changing some components on the low pass filter or whatever is used to debounce the encoders should fix it. Anyway, I just hope these bad encoders were only used in a small batch of scopes. Anyway, they should change their encoders to better quality ones.

This should not be necessary though, it reminds me of what we do at work: buy the cheapest shit from china, fix it and then use it. something like a certain motor bike manufacturer making engineers of it's riders comes to mind. An oscilloscope is supposed to be a reliable precision instrument, not a remake me every year kit

[Mechatrommer]

not a remake me every year kit

if i'm near you, just send the scope for service to me. one day done, charge, $100. you'll get $400 scope with nice encoders. next year, $500 still cheap! "you get what you pay" remember? i prefer buying shit for $300 and then repair it during christmas every year rather than paying $10K and enjoy the christmas. well,, only me.

[alm]

[i prefer buying shit for $300 and then repair it during christmas every year rather than paying $10K and enjoy the christmas. well,, only me.

The competition charges $10k?

[FenderBender]

Well the good thing is that these scopes are pretty accessible for repair. Unless the FPGA dies or something, it can be serviced pretty easily. Encoders, Capacitors...You know, that sort of stuff.

[mobbarley]

My knobs seem fine (low use) but I do find that I get the online help pop up from pressing buttons (without holding them) so there is obviously something erratic with the debounce going on - perhaps a later firmware fixes this as i've never upgraded it.

[Simon]

My knobs seem fine (low use) but I do find that I get the online help pop up from pressing buttons (without holding them) so there is obviously something erratic with the debounce going on - perhaps a later firmware fixes this as i've never upgraded it.

Well I've had my scope two years and used it literally a handful of times, yet the timing knob is already acting up !

[wkb]

Quite conflicting opinions on the quality it seems    Lets hope mine is of the blessed variant.

[saturation]

I'd expect it of PRC Chinese brands, more mixed quality from the same brand than we expect of established brands like Fluke, even if made in PRC [ Rigol 1052e have been among better of the low end DSO in terms of build quality.]

Just to estimate the ages, what was the firmware version of those who have issues?  I have no issues [ just rechecked today] and I have 2.04.

Several of the folks posting here complained of knob issues ~ a year ago, but it wasn't so bad then.  Seems like early symptoms predict more issues later on:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1245.msg16009#msg16009

Quite conflicting opinions on the quality it seems    Lets hope mine is of the blessed variant.

[oliver602]

I purchased mine in September and had to wait for stock. Firmware was 2.05 SP2. Have 2.06 now. It suffers from the odd screen flicker, occasional help pop ups and a flaky horizontal scale knob. But they are only minor issues and don't get in the way(yet). Im very happy with the scope apart from those annoyances.