SmallSMT - Discussion Thread.

[thommo]

With the nozzle changer in that location it doesn't appear that head 3 or 4 can 'reach' across to nozzle 1 or 2 in the changer - is it possible Michael?

Do you know what the effective maximum PCB work area becomes on the 2800HP with 4 heads?

[Smallsmt]

Sorry I have no VP-2800HP picture now but there are 3 machines in production so we have some pictures soon.

The past HP machines where all build as VP-2500HP having 3 side feeders.

[Smallsmt]

With the nozzle changer in that location it doesn't appear that head 3 or 4 can 'reach' across to nozzle 1 or 2 in the changer - is it possible Michael?

Do you know what the effective maximum PCB work area becomes on the 2800HP with 4 heads?

I think 100mm so you receive 260 x 500mm working area and maybe you can't reach some feeder lines on the north feeder using all heads.
The feeder blocks on west and east need to move 50mm to the middle.

[thommo]

What about the 2 camera positions Michael?
Where do they go?
You have a photo of them in the middle of the machine - is this their new location?

[Smallsmt]

Yes you're right we need to move the cameras to the middle so you loose 60mm on Y axis too.
So only 260 x 440mm working area left.
But this will help to access all North feeder lines again!
I forgot the nozzle changer postion need to be changed too!

[Smallsmt]

They are in production now you will see the results next week!

[Smallsmt]

I had some new ideas for the cover tape winder mechanics.
We can use a magnet to pull the adressed wheel down and need a small spring to move the others up so the unused tape will be released.

Here is a simple drawing:

[Smallsmt]

They are in production now you will see the results next week!

The question was "Are these the first 2800HP's to be built?"

Possible answers are

(a) Yes
(b) No

Please select the best answer from the above options

sorry I misunderstood your question YES this are the first machines using the 2016 design. ( V2 controller, tapes from West and East feeder moving under the machine, nozzle changer, vibration feeder option)

The VP-2800HP is an extendend version of our VP-2500HP so there are only a little changes.
We shipped 2x VP-2800HP old style last year but I miss the pictures.
I ask for the pictures tomorrow!

[48X24X48X]

The VP-2000D is a non selling product too so we dislike to add another bad selling product.

I believe it's down to the pricing. With the amount of feeder, it has it's own niche. Not everyone build a 50-100 lines of BOM products. If it is priced more competitively, it will definitely grab some buyers from other more entry level machine that doesn't have vision or at least have some sort of "vision". A price like slightly above USD4k with the north feeder included would definitely grab some buyer. You also need to consider that the machine still requires an external pump and PC to run it, so eventually it's more than USD6K already and reached USD7K with shipping, let alone the tax later. People do take note on these small things apart from the machine specification and capability.

My 2 cents.

[Smallsmt]

@48X24X48X Thank you for your comments.

Here are the VP-2800HP machine pictures for a V1 controller machine.

[thommo]

Hi Michael,

Just checking to see how construction of your new Vapor Phase oven is coming along.

Can you please post some photos to show what stage you're at?

Is it still scheduled to be completed next week?
And can you provide more detailed specs now?

@thommo
The construction will be finished in the next 4 weeks.
I post a preview this week before I go to hospital.
I get the gallbladder removed next week.

Best regards
Michael

[thommo]

Hey Michael,

Have you stopped following this forum post or something?

I wrote you a msg about 4 days or so ago regarding your new Vapor Phase Oven [see above].
Can you please send through some pics of it, or at least a response, so I know what's going on?

Also, do you have any pics now for the new design of the 2800HP machine?
It sounds like it's going to be an impressive machine for the cost when it's finally built and available.

What's the lead time after they produce this first unit?
Are they just building a single machine for you, or will there be a 'batch' available?

[Smallsmt]

I am sorry Peter I am busy these days I post some updates end of the week!

What's the lead time after they produce this first unit?
Are they just building a single machine for you, or will there be a 'batch' available?

We build custom machines so the lead time is 4 weeks.
The first 4x VP-2800HP are in production my machine is mostly finished and a
customer machine will be finished end of the week too.

[Smallsmt]

The waste tape is not goign under the machine.. These are the old style again?

The tape goes under the machine you can see the slit but you don't need to use on a two side feeder machine.


Please look on our website http://www.smallsmt.biz/vision-placer-pick-and-place-machine-2016/

[thommo]

So Michael I'm confused.

Is this the 'latest' model machine? Eg the one you will deliver if I place an order now? Or is it a 'previous' model.

Confused also about the 'custom' comment.
What are the custom options for the 2800HP machine?
I understood the only option was the format of the 'north' feeder, which was User swappable.

Please let's know.
Thanks

[Smallsmt]

Custom options are the feeder layout so you can use up to 3 side feeders.
We do custom east feeders too.

I only want to say we don't build machines for stock only because many customers ask for modifications.

My machine has only West and North feeder so I left some space on the east side to demonstrate some new feeder options soon like strip feeders and deep pocket feeders for tall parts.

This machine has our new design and if you buy an East feeder the machine has two slits on each side for the waste tape.
You see the nozzle changer and vibration feeder wich are V2 controller options.

[thommo]

Hi Michael,

Are all machines of a series designed to be 'upgradable'. If so, then to what extent.

eg - if I buy a 2800HP with West and North feeders can I 'add' an East feeder afterwards?

Strip feeders, Deep Pocket feeders, etc - are these all 'considered' in the current design and 'contemplated' moving forward so I can 'add' then in?

Sounds like some of this is not possible. I imagine 'bolt-on' features like the nozzle changer are 'options' though.
Please explain the extent of the 'options'

Have you changed the design back to only having cameras positioned in the top left corner now? I liked the idea of having them in the middle as we discussed.

Which is it?

Thanks - P

[Smallsmt]

Are all machines of a series designed to be 'upgradable'. If so, then to what extent.

All machines are upgradeable by adding nozzle changer, vibration feeder and tray based feeder options.

eg - if I buy a 2800HP with West and North feeders can I 'add' an East feeder afterwards?

The push feeder extension is not possible because you need to change the mechanics!

Strip feeders, Deep Pocket feeders, etc - are these all 'considered' in the current design and 'contemplated' moving forward so I can 'add' then in?

Yes this are future options for all machines and you can add them later.

Have you changed the design back to only having cameras positioned in the top left corner now? I liked the idea of having them in the middle as we discussed.

No we don't chage the camera position for a 2 Head machine because you loose working area space.
We need to change if we build the 4 head machine.

[Smallsmt]

Is there a slot for the North waste tapes as well. ANd if you dont' get an east feeder you dont' get any slots?

North feeder tapes moves out on the front side we can't add a third slot on North side because this is not possible and there is no need to do this in our current design.

[ttsthermaltech]

Glad to see that there still a large amount of skepticism towards the Yushengtech / SmallSMT machines.

As you may have read in a previous thread, I purchased a machine from Yushengtech via their previous sales representative HotHotSMT. The person at HotHotSMT (Sunny) now works with Michael at SmallSMT. So effectively same sales chain, just running under a different name.

Yushengtech has absolutely no regard for customer service. Don't expect anything from them. They sold me a machine with pirated software (back before they wrote their own software), and when it did not work properly (vision), they stopped responding to email. The control boards in the machine were so poorly soldered (surface mount by hand), that I had to resolder some components to make some functions work properly (Camera Ring Lights and video switching relays)

In fact, when I informed them that they forgot to include some spare nozzles that I ordered and paid for to be included with the machine, they told me that I would have to pay for shipping to get them if I still wanted them.

In the beginning, they pointed me to Michael @ smallSMT for support, and to be honest, he truly tried to help, but since he is just a sales rep (with waht seems to be some direct responsibilities towards product development) he can't really do much for you when your machine doesn't work.

In any case, I hope Michael builds his own machine in Germany. It will probably be good, as he knows his stuff. But as long as Yushengtech is involved, I would stay away...

My $0.02 worth...

[ar__systems]

Question: it appears from the pics that spent cover film is not collected anywhere. What are the chances of it NOT being tangled with one of the tapes and sucked into feeders? Why is not it collected?

[Smallsmt]

Question: it appears from the pics that spent cover film is not collected anywhere. What are the chances of it NOT being tangled with one of the tapes and sucked into feeders? Why is not it collected?

The cover film will move to the ground after it left the winder.
There are several options to collect the cover film if you use a spool the tension and travel way changes if you are at the beginning or end of the spool. So if the spool has a clutch the tape tension changes on bigger spool diameters.

[Smallsmt]

@Robert

Yushengtech has absolutely no regard for customer service.
Don't expect anything from them.

Like the most Chinese companies but SMALLSMT takes care of their customers!

They sold me a machine with pirated software (back before they wrote their own software), and when it did not work properly (vision), they stopped responding to email.

I bought the same SMT50 from Yushengtech and used it over 2 years.

They sold me a machine with pirated software

  Stop telling this wrong things!

OURSMT was the manufacturer of the controller and software. They protected their software by using a soft dog and protected the machine controller too.
So it was not possible to pirate this!
I bought a separate controller and software from OURSMT to receive support from this company for my SMT50.
The OURSMT software had a lot of bugs I reported to them. First he did some bug fixes but then he stopped. Their vision system was mostly not usable and as I know YUSHENG had a lot of problems with OURSMT too.

After this problem OURSMT decided to build own controller and software and the idea SMALLSMT was born.
We changed the business relation from customer to partners and started the development for a new system.
Curren't Yusheng / SMALLSMT machines are not compareable to to old quality and software options they had before.

It's documented  in every video on our website!

[l0wside]

+1.
Selling the machine out of Germany (with a German invoice and customer service out of Germany) would make the machine a lot more attractive and give you a competitive advantage.

Finding a North American distributor could be the next step.

Max

[Smallsmt]

+1.
Selling the machine out of Germany (with a German invoice and customer service out of Germany) would make the machine a lot more attractive and give you a competitive advantage.

Finding a North American distributor could be the next step.

Max

Selling the machine out of Germany >> would be more expensive too! But you can receive a German invoice if you are a company customer!
customer service out of Germany >> we do customer service out of Germany!
Finding a North American distributor could be the next step >> No need we need distributor for France and Italy and Eastern Europe!