SmallSMT - Discussion Thread.

[ttsthermaltech]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank this forum, Michael @ SmallSMT and Sunny @ HotHotSMT / SmallSMT / Yushengtech.

It has been a long path to an amicable (good) outcome to the problems I was having with my Yushengtech machine.

With the help of this forum, and the ongoing efforts from Michael and Sunny, I received a significant refund towards the cost of the machine that I purchased. It was a negotiated settlement that was agreed upon by myself and those involved.

I know that there were heated arguments between everyone involved, but in the end, I was happy with the outcome.

I understand that there has been significant development work and improvement in the Yushengtech / SmallSMT machines since mine was purchased approx. a year ago. To those of you considering a new machine, they are well worth your time to look at. The work that Michael has done with the machines is impressive, and deserves your consideration. 

If anyone has any questions, I would be happy to answer via PM.

Thanks again.

Rob @ TTSThermaltech



 

[mrpackethead]

With the help of this forum

In deed, this forum is strong.  So is the chinese concept of loosing face.   I'm glad you've got a good outcome.

https://chinaculturecorner.com/2013/10/10/face-in-chinese-business/

[48X24X48X]

mrpackethead,

How was your trip? 
Decided on which machine already?

[mrpackethead]

mrpackethead,

How was your trip? 
Decided on which machine already?

At this stage i've looked at three different machines, and none of them quite cut it for me.

The YS machines with the ball screws are capable of awesome placement, but the feeder system really lets it down.
The N4, is close, but the feeder system really lets it down.
The QiHe is a really nice machine but its limited by the number of feeders it can handle at a time.

Theres a hole in the market!

[Brumby]

mrpackethead,

How was your trip? 
Decided on which machine already?

At this stage i've looked at three different machines, and none of them quite cut it for me.

The YS machines with the ball screws are capable of awesome placement, but the feeder system really lets it down.
The N4, is close, but the feeder system really lets it down.
The QiHe is a really nice machine but its limited by the number of feeders it can handle at a time.

Theres a hole in the market!

Do I see a pattern ...?

[Smallsmt]

Perhaps this machine can meet your needs soon 

[RobK_NL]

The QiHe is a really nice machine but its limited by the number of feeders it can handle at a time.

Which of their machines specifically are you referring to, the TVM802 or the TVM920?

[mrpackethead]

The QiHe is a really nice machine but its limited by the number of feeders it can handle at a time.

Which of their machines specifically are you referring to, the TVM802 or the TVM920?

The 920..  Just not enough feeders to make it viable for me. 

[harry4516]

...
The 920..  Just not enough feeders to make it viable for me.

thats the biggest problem of the little disktop machines.
I use the TVM802B and have all the standard parts in the back stack (1k, 10k, 100k, 100n ...)
and the more specific parts in the left stack.
For the very special parts I build exchangeable custom trays, all trays have the same coordinates, so I don't need to enter new values for each tray.

What helps is to use always the same parts in the design, i.e. instead of using a new resistor value I try to place two Rs in parallel, that helps a lot.
Until now there was no need to use all of the stacks.

[RobK_NL]

The 920..  Just not enough feeders to make it viable for me. 

The TVM920 is supposed to have capacity for 56 feeders. Just how many do you need? 

Have you had the chance to actually see it in action? What's your overall opinion on it, number of feeders aside?

Perhaps this machine can meet your needs soon 

What exactly is "this machine" and what exactly is "soon"?

[Smallsmt]

This machine is our next step we add 22 Yamaha CL feeder to our HP machine so you can use push feeder and cassettes on one machine.

[mrpackethead]

The TVM920 is supposed to have capacity for 56 feeders. Just how many do you need? 

More like 80.   Its a lot i know.

Have you had the chance to actually see it in action? What's your overall opinion on it, number of feeders aside?

they have done their homework on this and its really well built.   Its certainly a contender.

Perhaps this machine can meet your needs soon 

What exactly is "this machine" and what exactly is "soon"?

[harry4516]

This is a picture of the currrent setup of my TVM802B.
It has 46 feeders and 26 custom-trays giving a capacity of 72 different components (the software supports 76 max). However, I never used all of them until now.
The trays are home made, 11 trays for various ICs, 9 lanes for 8mm tape pieces and 6 lanes for 12mm pieces.

The back stack is fully populated with standard parts like 1k, 10k, 100n, small diodes...
the left stack with more specific parts and the trays with expensive parts where I purchase only low quantities.

This stack/tray capacity should be more then enough for all my projects.

[ar__systems]

Wait, how is it possible? It has a limit of 10 different IC stacks.

[Smallsmt]

My VP-2800HP arrived here are some pictures of our first test run.

[harry4516]

looks very good, smallsmt, congrats for the machine.

@ar__systems:
my tvm802B has 30 ic-stacks. I can enter ic-stack 1 to 30 in the software, and I have tested it, it works.
This is a screenshot of the sys config window.

[ar__systems]

Hm... What version of the s/w do you have?

[harry4516]

V 2.12 date: 2016.03.21
I have purchased the machine beginning of April.

[Kjelt]

My VP-2800HP arrived here are some pictures

Interesting that they use ballscrew assembly instead of a beltdrive assembly is that not limiting the placement speed?

[Spikee]

My VP-2800HP arrived here are some pictures

Interesting that they use ballscrew assembly instead of a beltdrive assembly is that not limiting the placement speed?

Ballscrew can go faster because of the very low backlash. It is possible that it requires more energy.

[Koen]

To enjoy the best of both worlds, pick and place usually use high pitch ball screws but they are much harder to source and more expensive than 5mm pitch.

[Smallsmt]

Our Ballscrew machine need more energy than our stepper motor based machines but they are running at higher placement speed than our belt machines.

Some professional pick and place machines have belt too but use a linear measurement system on each axis to drive a closed loop system to compensate the mechanical deviations.

If you need precision a belt machine need to slow down to receive a good placement result. (to reduce head swing and vibrations)
That's the reason we show 2000 parts per hour as real placement speed using vision alignment than 5000 and more other machines offer as theoretical placement speed!

The most important difference is we use high pitch ball screw spindles and closed loop servo drives plus linear guide ways to improve the precision.
Our linear guide ways are from Hiwin a quality manufacturer.

We have less vibration than a belt machine and nearly no head swinging when machine stop for part placement or pick up.
You can compare the mechanical design of our HP machines against the competitors.
X- axis use double linear guide ways and Y-axis uses 25mm  linear guide ways.

[Kjelt]

Ok looking forward to the videos.

[Smallsmt]

I have some VP-2500HP short videos on www.twitter.com/smallsmt

Our machine has a max deviation of 0.05mm (over a distance of 300mm).

But it's possible to reach a max deviation of 0.018mm using a G5 tolerance spindle (over a distance of 300mm) but it's more expensive.

If you compare this to a belt machine you can reach >= 0.1mm precision on the same distance.

[Kjelt]

Looks good, but seeing this video I only now realise that if one head moves down the other one moves up why is that, single motor?