Author Topic: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator  (Read 94265 times)

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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2015, 08:11:38 pm »
Hope this helps sort your import duty fees.   ;)

It doesn't for me, Norway is outside EU, but good source at least if they sell to Norway (Or hopefully someone there can mail one), I found mostly 5packs at farnel, but they had one that was in a single but not much information about it.
Atleast looking at the pictures, these looks better than the clone I bought from ebay
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2015, 08:30:51 pm »
Edit: is this too good to be true ?  http://r.ebay.com/csHxNd

They seem to be heavily counterfeit, so yes, be careful... I bought one of the 102s from Banggood (SKU188447) and of course it was a fake, doesn't work at all. The flux doesn't flow to the tip, it leaks all over if you dare to squeeze it, the tip dries out...  So I threw it in the bin, lesson learned...   |O
I wouldn't trust eBay either, to be safe.

As per your counterfeit, remove the internal tube assy., and give that a try (not quite the real thing, but still usable IMHO).  ;)

Hope this helps sort your import duty fees.   ;)

It doesn't for me, Norway is outside EU, but good source at least if they sell to Norway (Or hopefully someone there can mail one), I found mostly 5packs at farnel, but they had one that was in a single but not much information about it.
Atleast looking at the pictures, these looks better than the clone I bought from ebay
I recall. But I also recall Ammoniacal's mention of using Amazon.de to get around the variable inspection fee nonsense by your postal system (i.e. gave me the clear impression this was the cheapest way to import into Norway). So I'm a bit confused (doesn't qualify/meet the conditions for the program, aren't aware of the program, or other?).  :-//

BTW, if someone else sends you one, how does that package avoid the inspection fee nonsense & import duties?
Just in the paperwork (i.e. marked personal, cash value = 0 EUR type of declarations)?

Hakko offers a similar item, the FS-210, but it's more than double the BON-102 here, and Hakko isn't known for low cost in the EU, so I don't usually think about it. Alternative should you need it/stumble across one at a steal of a deal sort of thing.  8)
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2015, 08:59:48 pm »
I recall. But I also recall Ammoniacal's mention of using Amazon.de to get around the variable inspection fee nonsense by your postal system (i.e. gave me the clear impression this was the cheapest way to import into Norway). So I'm a bit confused (doesn't qualify/meet the conditions for the program, aren't aware of the program, or other?).  :-//

BTW, if someone else sends you one, how does that package avoid the inspection fee nonsense & import duties?
Just in the paperwork (i.e. marked personal, cash value = 0 EUR type of declarations)?

Hakko offers a similar item, the FS-210, but it's more than double the BON-102 here, and Hakko isn't known for low cost in the EU, so I don't usually think about it. Alternative should you need it/stumble across one at a steal of a deal sort of thing.  8)

Letters aren't inspected unless they look like coming from companies, and if one use the CN22 sticker with information about value, and use a low value it also passes, the limit today is 350NOK, about $40-42, so as long as shipping and itemcost is below that it's ok, So if the seller have low cost on the shipping it would be ok.
I will check that seler on amazon to see.
If they only took the tax, it's no problem, but the fee they also makes it total up to a bit more than what one expect.

But buying from Farnell is ok, as long as one is company, because Farnell handles all tax stuff, also Amazon from US, they also handles the tax, but not sure about German Amazon.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2015, 10:46:58 pm »
I recall. But I also recall Ammoniacal's mention of using Amazon.de to get around the variable inspection fee nonsense by your postal system (i.e. gave me the clear impression this was the cheapest way to import into Norway). So I'm a bit confused (doesn't qualify/meet the conditions for the program, aren't aware of the program, or other?).  :-//

BTW, if someone else sends you one, how does that package avoid the inspection fee nonsense & import duties?
Just in the paperwork (i.e. marked personal, cash value = 0 EUR type of declarations)?

Hakko offers a similar item, the FS-210, but it's more than double the BON-102 here, and Hakko isn't known for low cost in the EU, so I don't usually think about it. Alternative should you need it/stumble across one at a steal of a deal sort of thing.  8)

Letters aren't inspected unless they look like coming from companies, and if one use the CN22 sticker with information about value, and use a low value it also passes, the limit today is 350NOK, about $40-42, so as long as shipping and itemcost is below that it's ok, So if the seller have low cost on the shipping it would be ok.
I will check that seler on amazon to see.
If they only took the tax, it's no problem, but the fee they also makes it total up to a bit more than what one expect.

But buying from Farnell is ok, as long as one is company, because Farnell handles all tax stuff, also Amazon from US, they also handles the tax, but not sure about German Amazon.
TheAmmoniacal regularly orders through Amazon.de, so it might be worth a PM to get the particulars.  ;)
 

Offline Augustus

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2015, 08:10:32 am »
I wouldn't trust eBay either, to be safe.

As per your counterfeit, remove the internal tube assy., and give that a try (not quite the real thing, but still usable IMHO).  ;)

Yeah, just look at how this ebay seller edited the "Bonkote Japan" sticker out of the images, this is a fake, 100%  ^-^

My counterfeit was really hopeless, I tried it without the inner assembly but still no luck. And it leaked badly, had to seal the thread with electrical tape, just to discover that the IPA in the flux dissolved the glue and the sticky mess started all over again. I'm back to empty nail polish flacons again, the ones with the little brushes, they work perfectly for me  :popcorn:
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 08:14:17 am by Augustus »
Greetings from the Black Forest, Germany
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2015, 09:36:59 am »
This is my approach to a syringe dispenser:



It's a work in progress.

It is a "bench dispenser", it will go in the Hammond case.

It is pending for cabling, design the pencil and fine tune the firmware.

Offline zapta

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2015, 11:23:41 am »
This is my approach to a syringe dispenser:



It's a work in progress.

It is a "bench dispenser", it will go in the Hammond case.

It is pending for cabling, design the pencil and fine tune the firmware.

Are you going to use a tube out of the syringe?

BTW, plastic parts looks very good, are they 3D printed?
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Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2015, 11:43:48 am »
Yes, I will be using a fine tubing like this:



with a Luer Lock coupling to the syringe and a dispenser pen.

And yes, plastic parts are printed. May be the pen will be printed too. The pen must have a switch to feed the paste.

Offline robrenz

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2015, 01:24:11 pm »
This is my approach to a syringe dispenser:



It's a work in progress.

It is a "bench dispenser", it will go in the Hammond case.

It is pending for cabling, design the pencil and fine tune the firmware.

Are you interested in some constructive criticism of the mechanical aspects of what you have so far?

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2015, 01:27:15 pm »
Quote from: robrenz on Today at 13:24:11
Are you interested in some
constructive criticism of the mechanical aspects of what you have so far?




Of course.

But some comments:

- It is in its early design ideas.

- Syringe body is heavily engaged to the support: it can't move

- Suringe plunger is heavily engaged too to the moving plastic piece.

Hope this helps you helping me :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 01:44:46 pm by EdoNork »
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2015, 02:47:30 pm »
But some comments:

- It is in its early design ideas.

- Syringe body is heavily engaged to the support: it can't move

- Suringe plunger is heavily engaged too to the moving plastic piece.

Hope this helps you helping me :)

Is it intended to dispense solder paste?  It may be too thick for that
 tube.
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Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2015, 03:36:00 pm »
The tube has an internal diameter similar to a dispensing needle.
I will try it this weekend if children leave some time for me.

Offline robrenz

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2015, 05:13:37 pm »
Of course.

But some comments:

- It is in its early design ideas.

- Syringe body is heavily engaged to the support: it can't move

- Suringe plunger is heavily engaged too to the moving plastic piece.

Hope this helps you helping me :)

The distance between the screw axis and the syringe axis is what needs improvement. Ideally you would have the screw axis inline with the syringe axis. I can do a sketch of what that would look like if you are interested. If not you should redo the two plastic pieces that connect to the syringe with the distance between the screw axis and the syringe axis made as short as physically possible. what you have now puts severe binding forces on the screw and nut. And the long thin arm connecting the nut and syringe also is much too flexible for precise control of small volumes.

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #63 on: September 02, 2015, 05:50:01 pm »
Hi robrenz,

I wanted to put motor and syringe inline, but no space.
The plastic piece has two nuts separate 15 mm on the screw side.
Distance between syringe and screw axes is 40 mm.
The plastic piece is 20 mm tall and 5 mm thick in its smaller part. It's PLA, very rigid.
I can, and will, make that piece thicker and separate the screw nuts.
I needed the syringe to test, and it arrived yesterday.

Please, go ahead with your comments. Thanks.

Offline robrenz

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #64 on: September 02, 2015, 06:30:03 pm »
May I humbly suggest that I sketch a suggested layout before you make any more parts?

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #65 on: September 02, 2015, 07:02:44 pm »
The other stepper based one, have custommade plunger, with an embedded nut, so you can have the stepper in a better place..
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2015, 07:45:26 pm »
Sure.

Offline KL27x

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2015, 08:43:11 pm »
I think you might have issues with the long thin tubing. Long thin tubing increases the drag on the highly viscous solder paste. More drag >> more pressure >> more stretching/ballooning of the tubing and the syringe body, and more compression of the rubber gasket = solder paste taking a longer delay before it dispenses and also continued solder paste squeezed out after the stepper motor stops moving.

The latter part can be alleviated by firmware to some extent. The former, not so much.

The obvious solution is to use larger diameter tubing with a small needle just on the end. But the obvious problem is the waste of a lot of solder paste, unless you use this thing very frequently.

I think a handheld design will work better, for this reason.

Even as is, I see a lot of solder paste used to prime the tubing, and then a log of clogged line when the solder paste eventually dries out, despite your best efforts. But if you assemble boards very frequently, I guess this is going to be fine! :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 08:50:43 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2015, 09:40:13 pm »
Quote
Long thin tubing increases the drag on the highly viscous solder paste

Agreed in spades. But... [perhaps only partly in jest] how about filling that tube with paste, and then instead of trying to push more through, you peel back the end to uncover however much solder you need.

That didn't seem like as daft an idea as I thought it would, so I wondered if you could create a sheath that would evaporate when heated to >150C or so (save having to peel it back as you feed it). And that led to me thinking that maybe if you could create some solid flux-like sheath it would be brilliant. And then I realised I'd just invented inside-out solder, so perhaps not :(
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2015, 11:18:02 pm »
The other stepper based one, have custommade plunger, with an embedded nut, so you can have the stepper in a better place..

I also ordered these and will give them a try, instead of the embedded nut.  It will be useful also for the 4 screws that secure the motor and the syringe.  Should be able to insert them with a standard soldering iron.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#94180a353/=yrotk6

Edit: initially I used two gliding rods to prevent the plunger to rotate with the long screw but I removed them and it works just as well. There is sufficient friction between the gasket and the cylinder to prevent rotation. Latest STL are here https://github.com/zapta/misc/tree/master/paste_injector/openscad (will tweak the M4 insert dimensions once they arrive) and Arduino Pro Mini sketch here https://github.com/zapta/misc/blob/master/paste_injector/arduino/arduino.ino
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 11:28:06 pm by zapta »
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Offline zapta

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2015, 11:41:53 pm »
There are many models of syringe pumps on the market. I am not sure though if they are a good fit for accurate solder paste dispensing.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=syringe+pump&es_sm=119&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIlObkp8LZxwIVln6ICh3dmgA5



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Offline nanofrog

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2015, 12:36:18 am »
Quote
Long thin tubing increases the drag on the highly viscous solder paste

Agreed in spades. But... [perhaps only partly in jest] how about filling that tube with paste, and then instead of trying to push more through, you peel back the end to uncover however much solder you need.

That didn't seem like as daft an idea as I thought it would, so I wondered if you could create a sheath that would evaporate when heated to >150C or so (save having to peel it back as you feed it). And that led to me thinking that maybe if you could create some solid flux-like sheath it would be brilliant. And then I realised I'd just invented inside-out solder, so perhaps not :(
Solder Paste Sausage  :-DD
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2015, 02:00:24 pm »
Sure.

I was initially focused just on the mechanical layout of what you had shown but the comments on the long tubing issues by KL27x are right on!  I would first try the tubing setup manually to see the problems yourself. I think you will find the bench with tubing idea to have too many negatives.  I can still sketch a improved mechanical layout but I think this is doomed with the long tubing idea.

Offline zapta

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2015, 03:17:43 pm »
Robenz, you have the know how and tools to offer great paste dispensers that don't require air compressor. Have you considered it?
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Offline robrenz

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Re: Solder paste/flux manual syringe applicator
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2015, 03:30:48 pm »
Robenz, you have the know how and tools to offer great paste dispensers that don't require air compressor. Have you considered it?

Thanks for your confidence in me!  I have not thought about it because I have an air dispenser that works very well. That is a very good idea that I will put some thought into. :-+


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