CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations

[tatel]

You have a quicko F103, so what are you worrying about?

I don't think it's necessary. It's tight, but for now it'll work. I'm not planning to add lots of new features, for now all my effort is going into making it work smooth as possible.
I spent the whole morning in changing the code, trying to dinamically load each screen, so only the displayed screen uses ram resources. But for now it's just a test, still having a lot of issues.
But it could reduce ram usage in 25% easily.

I have no idea about the CKS. It'll probably work ok, but who knows. I had a cks blue pill, no issues else than ST debugger complaining about not genuine part. Worked nicely with openOCD.

I'm worrying about people asking "which KSGER/Quicko should I buy?" There is a thread like that in this very same section of the forum. To find that the new soldering station purchased has a limited MCU where the RAM usage is one 100% would be appalling, at least to me, should I know after the purchase that there are other stations, perhaps even cheaper, that will have RAM usage about a 50%.

Now you say RAM usage could be reduced in 25%: good. Nobody's in inminent danger to run out of RAM. That was unclear to me until you said RAM usage can be easily reduced from where it's currently. But even so, I would have been disappointed, should I have bought a F101 station. I'm sure that extra RAM will come handy sooner or later.

I'm happy to own a clone CKS F103 MCU; I bought the station on the Quicko store following your advice, and paid just 29.34 EUR, with PSU said to be able to give 108W. It also has a 24V 4A rated DC input, 9501 handle, 6-pin GX connector and is ESD safe. No primary protective earth, however . Now there are other station models, not so cheap, that seem to have F101 MCUs, without PSU, some 80 watts, "bad" handle, 4-pin connector and no earth connection at all. So I'm not worrying about my station, but do care about the advice I could give to a prospective buyer. The sheer amount of models available makes it confusing. I think being able to say somewhat like "these three models are the worthiest to be considered" would be  A Good Thing (TM)

I have some STM32 spares: at least one of them passes all tests so it's probably original. Others not checked yet, but I hope they are original too. However, so far I don't think it would be worth to substitute one of them for the CKS clone now in the station. IIRC, other people in this thread have CKS-based stations too, and I don't see any bad reports coming. Also I can't find bad reports about them on the Net, but I can find bad reports for other clones. So, it wouldn't surprise me if the current Chipaggedon will make clear that CKS clones are a worthy, cheap alternative to STM original ones. Perhaps a guy is asking himself right now if he should care about seller's warning that for the time being, they have resourced to CKS clones. Maybe he could find it handy to see some reports from CKS users.

Last, people looking at these stations do care about the money, or they would be considering original Hakko stations at least. When they ask, they hope to get advice to buy the best bang for the buck. Now, do we have a clear picture about what model is that best bang for the buck? Or, would we be giving contradictory information based just on our personal, limited experience? I for one know I have been unable to answer that "which model to buy" question.



 

[mastershake]

one of mine has the cks chip on it and all seems to work the same as the real stm32

[DavidAlfa]

I see your point. I think Quicko offers better hw for the money, although their fw is terrible.
KSGERs are more expensive, while they reduced costs everywhere they could.
Anyone could  put a 103 there and compile their own by just changing the linker script to the 103.
Or by modifying the 101c8 script, replacing 10kb with 20.

So what's going on? I put a lot of hope in the new release, where most tip issues seem to be gone, and nobody is testing?

[tatel]

I see your point. I think Quicko offers better hw for the money, although their fw is terrible.
KSGERs are more expensive, while they reduced costs everywhere they could.

Understood. I'm happy this coincides with the advice I gave.

Anyone could  put a 103 there and compile their own by just changing the linker script to the 103.
Or by modifying the 101c8 script, replacing 10kb with 20.

Good. However I wouldn't buy a F101 based station having cheaper stations with F103 available. Not worth the hassle, I think. But there could be other reasons, unknown to me, that would make F101 advisable?

So what's going on? I put a lot of hope in the new release, where most tip issues seem to be gone, and nobody is testing?

I have been playing with calibration: I quite fast ran out of FG-100 thermocouples... clones, should I say? I found it somewhat difficult to get repeated results, and I'm not trusting those readings so much. Also they doesn't seem to last much more than a couple dozen readings; I wonder if just a naked multimeter thermocouple would do it better... or perhaps something like a PT100 RTD, interfaced to an arduino and a 7-segment display? I think it couldn't be worse that my FG100 clone. But, anyway, new FG100 thermocouples are on the way. We'll see if they are any better.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/innovative-sensor-technology-usa-division/P0K1-520-6W-B-010/13686726

[mastershake]

ksger randomly uses 101,102 or 103 its a luck of the draw basically with those. i own 5 and only 2 have 103's i actually mostly saw 102 chips (i ordered these in for the kids learning to solder) and only one of them had a 101 on it.

so my wife turned on the 3.1s after using the newest firmware today (i needed her to touch something up for me and it was a really easy thing i knew she could handle) and after calibration set to even 350 with the k t12 tip it barely melted the solder at all. we tried re calibrating it still acted like it was way to cold. grabbed another non flashed stock 3.1s station and heated right up with the same tip no issues at all instantly melted the solder. any thoughts on why?

[StephenR0]

I have been playing with calibration: I quite fast ran out of FG-100 thermocouples... clones, should I say? I found it somewhat difficult to get repeated results, and I'm not trusting those readings so much. Also they doesn't seem to last much more than a couple dozen readings; I wonder if just a naked multimeter thermocouple would do it better... or perhaps something like a PT100 RTD, interfaced to an arduino and a 7-segment display? I think it couldn't be worse that my FG100 clone. But, anyway, new FG100 thermocouples are on the way. We'll see if they are any better.

I had the same experience.  I didn't even get ten readings that I trusted from the ones that came with my FG-100 clone.  So, I ordered these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/261905476277

These seem much more reliable.  I'm still on my first one and it seems just fine.

[StephenR0]

I'm testing the latest firmware for my Quicko with a CKS processor.  Everything seem to work just fine.  Calibration seemed to be the same as before.  There is some hunting up and down, maybe about three degrees once things stabilize.  I don't think that's a problem, though.  So, given the new knobs in the menu, what should I tweak if I want to?  I'm not completely clear what affects what yet.

[DavidAlfa]

But there could be other reasons, unknown to me, that would make F101 advisable?

F101/102 are just cut-down versions of the 103. Other than cheaper, nothing else.

and after calibration set to even 350 with the k t12 tip it barely melted the solder at all.

Strange. Maybe a bad calibration? Did you compare the results against older calibrations?

I'm testing the latest firmware for my Quicko with a CKS processor.  Everything seem to work just fine.  Calibration seemed to be the same as before.  There is some hunting up and down, maybe about three degrees once things stabilize.  I don't think that's a problem, though.  So, given the new knobs in the menu, what should I tweak if I want to?  I'm not completely clear what affects what yet.

Do you mean oscillating up and down few degrees? Did it automatically  reset the settings after flashing? Otherwise its better to manually reset them, as there're new pid values.
First play with the filter factor. Try 2 and 4.
Then try increasing and decreasing Kd by 10. If it doesn't get any better, try reducing Kp to 70 or so. If it still does it, reduce Ki to 60.
Maybe you have one of these tips where the sensor is poorly attached to the body.

But if the problem is just few degress, don't worry too much. Do you have other tips to compare?

[tatel]

I had the same experience.  I didn't even get ten readings that I trusted from the ones that came with my FG-100 clone.  So, I ordered these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/261905476277

These seem much more reliable.  I'm still on my first one and it seems just fine.

Good to know. I got these:

https://aliexpress.com/item/32803533834.html

Now I think they look as clones again... weĺl see how they work

[StephenR0]

Do you mean oscillating up and down few degrees? Did it automatically  reset the settings after flashing? Otherwise its better to manually reset them, as there're new pid values.
First play with the filter factor. Try 2 and 4.
Then try increasing and decreasing Kd by 10. If it doesn't get any better, try reducing Kp to 70 or so. If it still does it, reduce Ki to 60.
Maybe you have one of these tips where the sensor is poorly attached to the body.

But if the problem is just few degress, don't worry too much. Do you have other tips to compare?

Yes, I mean oscillating up and down few degrees.

Yes, I manually reset to defaults by holding the button during startup.  That's a habit now. 

I did try those two filter values.  4 seemed to lengthen the cycles, but not change degrees up and down.

I'll try the steps that you suggested.  I have five different tips that I can compare with.  I haven't tested more than one yet, though.  I'll work on it.  Thanks.

[dark_hawk]

My calibration data:
Board: KSGR 3.1 with the STM32F101 and the 28-07-2021 version of the firmware. Temperature Measured with a Hakko 191 iron thermometer clone with a new sensor.
All tips are KSGR branded, some are with a black tip which is more expensive and supposed to be of a better quality, which certainly are not.
B : 1677, 2338, 3199
D12:1622, 2260, 2938
D52: 1615, 2251, 2947
J02: 1636, 2305, 3087
J02 Black head: 1655, 2334, 3234
K: 1640, 2297, 3094

I have a problem with 2 of the black heads tips, D16 and D24. When connected the overshoot quite a bit. Set for 300 for example, the board gives it power when under 300, it immediately shoots to 500-600 degrees on screen (nothing like that on the thermometer), then start going down slowly until when under 300 degrees and have a slight power then it overshoots again.
On the original firmware those tips used to fluctuate wildly around the set temperature.
I know these tips are of lower quality or the thermocoupler is not bonded correctly, I want to try to make them usable though. I think I need to the change the Kp,Ki,KD, Imax and Imin for those 2 tips, how do I go about doing that?

A few suggestions for the firmware:
1-Adding the option to round robin, when at the start of a menu, if you rotate the knob counterclockwise it would go to the last item on the page, useful when you enter a wrong menu or just want to get to the end of the menu without scrolling all the way down.
2-Show the name of the current tip profile on the main screen, useful to make sure you have the correct tip selected especially with those big difference in calibration values.
3-Show the name of the current tip profile on the calibration screen, there is enough room I think.
4-When adding a new tip, and opening the edit tip menu it shows the ADC values of that tip which are the default 1100, 1200, 1300, but when opening the adjust menu when calibrating that tip, it shows the values you added for the first tip you adjusted. 1450, 2200, 3100 for example, is that a bug or is it intentional? And if it was intentional, why not add a new menu with those values since they seem to be universal for all tips and specific to the board and not for each individual tip.

Thanks again for the hard work. The firmware completely changed the station for the better.

[illiac4]

Another board picture. It is from Handskit.

[DavidAlfa]

Thanks for the calbrations.
Yes, new tips copy calibrations from the 1st tip, to provide a close match to start with.
As you see, your tips have some differences. So I left the door open to that posibility.
I made the round robin a while ago, but it was too easy to go back to the other side, which I found really annoying.
The graohics are not designed to work as a continuous roll, instead it goes back to the upper side and first item.
Everything can be done, but this is just something I do in my free time. In fact it takes too much free time.
The tip name is something easy. Will look at it.
No problem in the calibration screen, but there isn't enough space in the main screen for it.
Maybe removing the icons...
I won't reduce the heater font size, that's the main thing I wanted in this fw. I hated these small letters.

I've been working hard to implement the dynamic screen loading. It's working almost perfect now. Yet to ensure there're no bugs as I had to move and split a lot of code.

The required ram is greatly reduced. Some screen will use little as 224bytes, while the largest (SYSTEM menu) uses aroudn 1832.
But together they would sum up ~6KB. So now it uses just 30% of that  . So no worries.

[dark_hawk]

Thanks for the calbrations.
Yes, new tips copy calibrations from the 1st tip, to provide a close match to start with.
As you see, your tips have some differences. So I left the door open to that posibility.
I made the round robin a while ago, but it was too easy to go back to the other side, which I found really annoying.
The graohics are not designed to work as a continuous roll, instead it goes back to the upper side and first item.
Everything can be done, but this is just something I do in my free time. In fact it takes too much free time.
The tip name is something easy. Will look at it.
No problem in the calibration screen, but there isn't enough space in the main screen for it.
Maybe removing the icons...
I won't reduce the heater font size, that's the main thing I wanted in this fw. I hated these small letters.

I've been working hard to implement the dynamic screen loading. It's working almost perfect now. Yet to ensure there're no bugs as I had to move and split a lot of code.

The required ram is greatly reduced. Some screen will use little as 224bytes, while the largest (SYSTEM menu) uses aroudn 1832.
But together they would sum up ~6KB. So now it uses just 30% of that  . So no worries.

Seems like a lot of work, wish you the best of luck.

For the tip name, I think you can free up some space if you decrease the size of the temperature unit, Making it as big as the actual temperature value is not very informative imho.  If you decreased it's size by half you can put the tip name above it, directly under the ambient temp. sensor data. Just an idea.

I have a problem with 2 of the black heads tips, D16 and D24. When connected the overshoot quite a bit. Set for 300 for example, the board gives it power when under 300, it immediately shoots to 500-600 degrees on screen (nothing like that on the thermometer), then start going down slowly until when under 300 degrees and have a slight power then it overshoots again.
On the original firmware those tips used to fluctuate wildly around the set temperature.
I know these tips are of lower quality or the thermocoupler is not bonded correctly, I want to try to make them usable though. I think I need to the change the Kp,Ki,KD, Imax and Imin for those 2 tips, how do I go about doing that?

Would love some feedback about this problem please, which values do I change first and by how much to try to make these tips work.

[mastershake]

imo those black tipped ones were terrible i ended up tossing a few of them the regular ksger ones without the black tip worked far better imo. neither one is still a genuine hakko though.

im going to reflash this board and see if that fixes this heating issue i did a full reset and new calibration same tip as i said is fine with the stock firmware on a second unit but it refuses to fully heat up on this one for some reason. ill try that in a bit and let you know.

[DavidAlfa]

Strange, because everything is mostly the same.
The sensor spikes are filtered for a limited number of times, it shouldn't affect the overall temperature.
Don't tell me about how bad it melts, check the real temperature! If you correctly calibrated 250,350 and 450 steps, then the setpoint should be almost spot on.

[SteveyG]

I have a problem with 2 of the black heads tips, D16 and D24. When connected the overshoot quite a bit. Set for 300 for example, the board gives it power when under 300, it immediately shoots to 500-600 degrees on screen (nothing like that on the thermometer), then start going down slowly until when under 300 degrees and have a slight power then it overshoots again.
On the original firmware those tips used to fluctuate wildly around the set temperature.
I know these tips are of lower quality or the thermocoupler is not bonded correctly, I want to try to make them usable though. I think I need to the change the Kp,Ki,KD, Imax and Imin for those 2 tips, how do I go about doing that?

I had to use really low numbers to stop this oscillation. It goes unstable with only Kp=40, Ki=0, Kd=0, so I settled on for now Kp=20, Ki=15, Kd=5

[DavidAlfa]

But doing so won't put all the power into the tip...  These oscillations are mostly due the filter response and the tip itself. Just a bad combination.
As long it just 3-5º oscillation, it's better than lowering the tip power. Like the penny soldering test, if you set 350 and the tip was reading 340, that clearly means there weren't 80w anywhere at the tip. If you don't see the lower powerr graph rising to at least 80% with a 10ºC drop, it's no good!
Also play with the Delay. Sometimes reducing it gets better! My current tips seem to be happy with 1mS.
I also get oscillations when I rise the PWM frequency. That's why I keep 200mS ADC time and 1x pwm.

When you have these problems, it's always better to make a video. Otherwise I can only guess what's going on.

I'm testing a different layout. Slight smaller font (But not half, I want to read it perfectly 1meter away), and changing the power bar to a vertical one.

[dark_hawk]

It's not just 3-5 degrees, it's jumping all over the place. Please see the photos and video.

I think I won't play with configuration universal to the board and all the other tips since I have other tips that are working fine with the default setting, changing values like filter or the delay will have an effect on those tips that are already working great and regulating correctly.

My problem is those 2 tips. They worked with the KSGR firmware, although the temperature readings was fluctuating wildly.

Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lglwrc362dcmoi/Pxl%2020210729%20145112698~2-1.m4v?dl=0

[dark_hawk]

I had to use really low numbers to stop this oscillation. It goes unstable with only Kp=40, Ki=0, Kd=0, so I settled on for now Kp=20, Ki=15, Kd=5

Thanks for the reply, and for letting us know about this great project.
I just tried those PID values: Kp=20, Ki=15, Kd=5 and Kp=40, Ki=15, Kd=5
There does not seem to be much different between the two, and they are both acceptable for these bad tips I think.

[DavidAlfa]

Are you sure the tip is correctly calibrated with these values you showed? ~1600-2300-3000?
Remember that new tips always have these problems, they need some time. Some are just unusable.
Set a high sleep time and let it cook at 300°C for a while.
If in a few minutes it's doing the same, then start working on the settings. Try KD (derivative) values between 5 and 50. Too little and won't compensate enough, too high and will over react doing it worse.
But 40/0/0 will give awful pid response.

The pictures.you showed show an oscillation of +-15°C not terrible, but could get better.Try lower filter factor...

[DavidAlfa]

Another board picture. It is from Handskit.

Try the Ksger v2 fw. Never seen that board before, but there are several clones copying the Ksger schematic.

[dark_hawk]

Are you sure the tío is correctly calibrated with these values you showed? ~1600-2300-3000?
Remember that new tip always have these problems.
Set a high sleep time and let it cook at 300°C for a while.
If in a few minutes it's doing the same, then start working on the settings. Try KD (derivative) values between 5 and 50. Too little and won't compensate enough, too high and will over react doing it worse.
But 40/0/0 will give awful pid response.

Those tips are not new, been using them for a while, I don't think they need any beak-in time.
After playing for a while with the D24 tip I managed to get it as close as possible with as high values for the PID as possible.
Kp=35, Ki=15, Kd=25
First picture is without load, second one is when I put the tip on a big thermal mass, it dips a little bit, then stabilizes, and overshoots a bit after releasing the load.
Other good tips does not behave like that, it's a straight line even under the load of a thermal mass.

The other D16 tip needs different numbers though, it still oscillates at these PID values. Great thing is that PID is defined for each tip and not for the whole board.
And please don't change the load meter to vertical

[SteveyG]

But doing so won't put all the power into the tip...  These oscillations are mostly due the filter response and the tip itself. Just a bad combination.
As long it just 3-5º oscillation, it's better than lowering the tip power. Like the penny soldering test, if you set 350 and the tip was reading 340, that clearly means there weren't 80w anywhere at the tip. If you don't see the lower powerr graph rising to at least 80% with a 10ºC drop, it's no good!

It's not 5°C it's 50°C but not critically damped, so it gets worse then locks out on overtemperature

[Tugo]

dark_hawk:
What are your settings for ADC time (or period), ADC delay, PWM multiplier and Filter (those 4 settings are in Iron menu)? Those settings are the first thing I had o set to "good" values so that I could even start anything else. Values that David told you are on my hardware (which is different then David's) the way to go.
100ms, 1ms (which could also be 0.5ms but for safety I set it to 1ms), 1x (but could also be 2x and not anything higher on my hardware) and I set filter to 2 (different values wasn't as good for me).

David: I am glad you finally came to my settings I don't know if you remember but 1ms was way better than 20ms and 1x was stable and 10x wasn't (2x was almost ok or pretty much PID dependant). My period is 100ms (50ms was a little to fast and 200ms was slower and I wanted faster soldering iron). One more question: do you have enough soldering tips from my hardware or would there be in any help if I would give you even some other tips? I don't know if I have any used ones so I would have to burn it a new ones. I am still at 7th of July and I didn't use it at all because I didn't have time so I didn't update it to new version. Thank you for all the work that you do!!!