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Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: oz1sqt on March 18, 2021, 09:33:48 am

Title: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 18, 2021, 09:33:48 am
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
The last to criteria was present in my old station.

If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.

I have an TS100 as additional soldering iron. I have discovered the TS100 with it's 65 Watt have some issues with larger ground-planes and i have had some similar issues with my old 90Watt station. 

Therefor I ask for other suggestions? I did look at QUICK 1200A but after searching this forum, i continued my search. And to make it more difficult I live en Europe so Pace in not an option, and i don't like the Hakko GUI.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Psi on March 18, 2021, 10:25:31 am
I like my TMT-9000, and it's in your price range by the look of it.

(Just FYI, you cant use both the outputs at the same time sadly, but it does heat up super fast, I timed it at 6 seconds until solder melts.)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 18, 2021, 10:35:35 am
Am i right, it has fixed temperature, is that desired? and has only 40 watts?
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: tooki on March 18, 2021, 04:12:28 pm
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.

If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.

I have an TS100 as additional soldering iron. I have discovered the TS100 with it's 65 Watt have some issues with larger ground-planes and i have had some similar issues with my old 90Watt station. 

Therefor I ask for other suggestions? I did look at QUICK 1200A but after searching this forum, i continued my search. And to make it more difficult I live en Europe so Pace in not an option, and i don't like the Hakko GUI.
Yes, JBC tips are readily available, and their selection is second to none, but the prices mean you likely won’t take advantage of that and will end up with just a few tips.

Pace is readily available in Europe. Farnell (dk.farnell.com for you) carries pretty much the entire Pace range in all of Europe. So I’d recommend the ADS200.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 18, 2021, 08:24:41 pm
The PACE ADS-200 with the IBS stand looks interesting, but the range of tips is somewhat more limited and mostly conical. It is currently in backorder, is it a new product at Farnell?
But when I calculate VAT on the PACE ADS-200, it will end up a bit more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF when i include 4 corresponding tips.

I have also looked at other pages in EU with similar limited and mostly conical selection. I found the tip price for "normal"-tips is quite similar between JBC and PACE when i calculate VAT from pages in EU
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 18, 2021, 10:12:46 pm
I have looked at it, it happened to be in the web shop I found an OK price on the https://eleshop.eu/jbc-cd-2bqf-soldeerstation-140watt.html (https://eleshop.eu/jbc-cd-2bqf-soldeerstation-140watt.html) As alternative to the BT-2BWA or CD-2BQF the English version of the JBC clone BST-933B https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20210318140238&SearchText=bst+933b (https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20210318140238&SearchText=bst+933b) could also be an alternative, i have seen some positive reviews of it, and i can even use it with genuine  tips.

Thanks for the good tip with the E-bay seller JBC20-30. I had also considered fake/clone-tips, in some of the variants that are not used that often.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on March 19, 2021, 08:54:24 am
The tip list for the Pace TD200 handpiece, makes it easier to search by part number.
https://paceworldwide.com/news/new-printable-td-200-blue-series-tip-chart

I would be hesitant going down the clone path especially if you have the money or can save a little more to get what you want. It would be great if you were getting more for less money but less for less (whether it be materials, quality, warranty, performance, reliability) doesn't sound like a winning proposition to me.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 19, 2021, 09:52:27 am
Funny enough, i asked my wife and she came up with a similar answer.
And a good argument with the T210 handle

My dilemma when I saw it I had a very hard time with the more expensive JBS but I would be most happy with the good price of the clone or the security with the original and like you she knocked me in the head and said, with the minimal price difference and risk on the clone, while the original will probably last the rest of my life ... although that would be an argument for upgrading ;-)

Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 19, 2021, 10:08:52 am
I have seen that, and know that PACE has a large number of tips, but the sellers in EU I have found, only sells 10-15 different types and 60% of those options are conical.

If I buy outside EU, I have to add the minimum of $25 US as import fee to the order and then add 25% in VAT. If the amount also exceeds $148 US I must also add tax to the cost. It minimizes the benefits of the cheaper soldering tips.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: EEVblog on March 19, 2021, 10:43:33 am
I have the Pace ADS200 and the JBC2B stations. I use the Pace as my primary iron these days, it's just "the vibe". They are both great though.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: EEVblog on March 19, 2021, 10:46:05 am
If you want an alternative to the fixed temp Metcal's Chris Gammell has been talking up the Thermaltronics
http://www.thermaltronics.com/ (http://www.thermaltronics.com/)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Psi on March 19, 2021, 11:27:08 am
Am i right, it has fixed temperature, is that desired? and has only 40 watts?

Yes to both, but the thermaltronics TMT-9000S is by far the best iron i've used.
You can change the temp, but need to change the tip to a higher temp one to do it. I use the yellow tips 99% of the time. They're around 370C but I have some lower temp ones too.

Yeah, I did wonder about not having a temp adj knob when I got it, however someone told me that, with a really good quality iron this isn't an issue, and they were right!
When the iron is able to dump that 40W directly into the tip in an instant and keep regulating the tip to that temp you no longer need to crank up the temp to compensate for poor/slow heater-to-tip coupling.

That being said, I have maybe 2 times in 6 years gone back to my hakko 888 and set it to 450C just to solder some stupidly large stuff. I guess the 40W has its limits, but its super rare and if i wanted to i could buy a red tip that would do up to 475C on the TMT-9000S
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 19, 2021, 11:44:09 am
My question about the 40W is more, that i have discovered issues with an 65W iron also with the heater in the tip, (with an 90W PSU)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on March 19, 2021, 01:54:04 pm
On Farnell UK searching for Pace 1130 I got 56 results (some of those tweezer tips) and Pace 1131 showed 17 results, so that sounds close to the entire tip series. If certain tips are not in your distributors system you can always request they be added.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: tooki on March 19, 2021, 01:59:00 pm
The PACE ADS-200 with the IBS stand looks interesting, but the range of tips is somewhat more limited and mostly conical. It is currently in backorder, is it a new product at Farnell?
Nope. Pace is just suffering from big backorder issues in Europe right now, because their (soon to be former) Euro headquarters is in England and shipments have been mired in brexit problems. (The pace desoldering station we ordered just before Christmas, with delivery due mid January, didn’t arrive till early March.)
I have also looked at other pages in EU with similar limited and mostly conical selection. I found the tip price for "normal"-tips is quite similar between JBC and PACE when i calculate VAT from pages in EU
Farnell carries at least 37 tips for the ADS200*, of which only 9 are conical. I don’t know where you got the crazy idea that most of ADS200 tips are conical.

*as shown by the parametric search, which almost certainly is not catching all of them.

Also, don’t ignore the local distributors: we ordered our desoldering station from the local distributor, because it was cheaper than Farnell, not to mention supporting local businesses. It may be the same in Denmark.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 19, 2021, 05:43:59 pm
OK it seems to be a Backorder issue, that explains the long expected delivery time. I'm not familiar with PACE and have in the past seen it as a US phenomena, it did not appear the times I have previously searched for soldering stations, the same with Hakko, although they seem to be popular.

btw i got 40 hits on Farnell searching for ads200, 37 tips, but only 5 types of tips in stock. This is not positive in my eyes, and reduce my trust in the brand... Brexit was not a surprise. The numbers came from other sites from, Estonia, Poland, Nederland, Bulgaria and Greece.

I have also looked at local distributors but they either have low end off brand stations, or more high end stations way out of my budget, and stations with direct heat tips are quit difficult to find in their product range.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: tooki on March 19, 2021, 09:00:01 pm
OK it seems to be a Backorder issue, that explains the long expected delivery time. I'm not familiar with PACE and have in the past seen it as a US phenomena, it did not appear the times I have previously searched for soldering stations, the same with Hakko, although they seem to be popular.

btw i got 40 hits on Farnell searching for ads200, 37 tips, but only 5 types of tips in stock. This is not positive in my eyes, and reduce my trust in the brand... Brexit was not a surprise. The numbers came from other sites from, Estonia, Poland, Nederland, Bulgaria and Greece.

I have also looked at local distributors but they either have low end off brand stations, or more high end stations way out of my budget, and stations with direct heat tips are quit difficult to find in their product range.
Brexit has affected tons of companies: stuff is stuck in customs as the customs officials figure things out. It has nothing to do with the company itself, nor preparedness. A friend of mine owns a British cheese shop, and thanks to the double whammy of brexit and COVID, he hasn’t been able to receive stock for many weeks. (And yes, this has meant huge losses for cheese makers, since their soft cheeses literally go bad waiting...)

I meant to check your local Pace distributor.

Pace doesn’t have the retail visibility of, say, Weller or Ersa (which might also be a brand worth looking at), but it’s everywhere in aerospace and defense. It’s extremely well made, not flashy, but reliable and high performing.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: 2N3055 on March 19, 2021, 11:37:36 pm
Welectron has many tips on stock.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: nctnico on March 20, 2021, 01:02:36 am
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.
You are forgetting one criterium: long lasting tips. According to my experience Weller and JBC suck at that. Heating in the tip is great but if that tip doesn't take on solder it is way worse compared to an iron from Ersa.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: 2N3055 on March 20, 2021, 08:38:55 am
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.
You are forgetting one criterium: long lasting tips. According to my experience Weller and JBC suck at that. Heating in the tip is great but if that tip doesn't take on solder it is way worse compared to an iron from Ersa.

I agree. I tried JBC and didn't like it. Tip might heat fast and strong, but with few tips I tried they had a bad wetting, and would oxidize too fast. I also had Weller WD1. Original tips that came with it were wetting much better, and in years, only by using sponge newer had problems with wetting. Newer tips are much worse and about the same as JBC. I believe it is the coating that changed, the newer coatings are different formulation for use with higher temp and lead free solders. They might have some chrome in it or something that makes them corrode less and be less absorbed by different formulation of lead free solder, but they also wet much worse. Pace tips are also a bit like that but much better then JBC.

One more thing. I'm known to take very good care of my equipment and never use force and use it very gently. But JBC looks and feels like a plastic toy. While PACE is built like a tank. PACE handle is tiny, but doesn't look or feel cheap or like it is going to break any moment now like JBC.  Yes, I know they don't really break like that, but it feels like that.
And aluminum handle is awesome!! After decades of soldering, having a soldering iron that after 8 hours of being used is still cold to the touch is just amazing.

If I didn't buy PACE to replace my Weller, I would have bought Ersa I-Con station. Don't buy the sales pitch, even if it isn't integrated heater in tips, heater is still mounted deep in tip and has good heat transfer. And 120W is enough to cope with tip thermal inertia. Which is also two sided coin:  JBC has so low tip mass, that when you even touch something tiny it looses temperature immediately.  It makes up for that with fast regulation.  Larger mass tips have more inertia, but also have more stored heat: on same solder joint they will loose less °C when you touch it. So les droop and less °C to correct.
In fact ERSA is so fast, that you have an option in a menu to enable slower regulation, so component heating is not so abrupt to decrease thermal shock.
There is same option of temperature profiling on more expensive pro grade JBC stations. When used with those stations and less aggressive heating profiles, JBC tips last longer...

PACE on the other hand seems to have been dialed in just right from the get go. And I also have few hi-capacity tips (larger thermal mass) so you can choose. I actually prefer those for general work, where space is not a problem. 

Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 20, 2021, 12:32:06 pm
Has most manufacturers' alloys not been upgraded to lead-free tin? I am aware that the thermal mass of the tip has a very large impact on where, we can call it the tips' usability.

I also like the PACE's seems to be quite solid, and i know i have to be aware of the sales pitch's. In most forums i have come across the choice of tool is almost religious, where one can "only" use model super delux with gold platinum ... even though the tool is in the drawer 99% of the time. That often makes it quite hard to make a selection based on the suggestions.

Another challenge is that I have a bit of a hard time doing without a soldering station for another 6 weeks or more before they come back in stock due to the backorder Pace are in.

I have also spread my hunt for the ADS200 (ISP), also Welectron which I did not know, but it seems to be the variant that is most difficult to obtain ... alternatively, since the difference is a mechanical micro switch in the holder, it is not relatively easy to add the switch for to get the ISP feature. It must be a simple end or break function am i right? If possible, I think it will be the Pace.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on March 20, 2021, 10:11:38 pm
The Pace ADS200 with ISB comes with the "instant setback" version of the stand. It's more than just a switch added, there's a cable, plug, switch, bracket and arm. The parts can be handcrafted diy if you are up for it, but I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.

The setback temp is configurable, then you have "instant setback" (stand detection) or "standard setback" (idle detection). To resume out of instant setback you need the ISB stand and it plugged in. To resume out of "standard setback" you have to wet the tip on the sponge or press a button.

Since the tip is already roughly half heated in setback the ISB stand is the most convenient way to go. It's all configurable though and you can optionally even disconnect the ISB cable or use it later. There is an additional "auto off" setting which will turn off all heating and require a button to resume, so even if the cat comes in later and drags the soldering handpiece out of the ISB stand it won't start back up.

The Pace station doesn't look high tech but has a modern quick heating circuit, accurate so no calibration required and the handpiece is  comfy with a short working distance. The configuration is hidden away in a boot menu to avoid people messing with your settings. Anyway, buy what makes you happy is the best way to go.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/?action=dlattach;attach=881102;image)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 21, 2021, 12:17:56 am
It sounds annoying to be forced to press a button or cool down the tip, to get out of Hibernation mode. With my old Quick I'm used to be able to be ready 2 sec after I lift the handpiece

I'm not afraid of a diy solution on to make the ISB option, a mini DIN3 plug, and a sensor, here i think of a photosensor, seance a touch sensor could have an issue with the heat. similar to this solution https://getgui.com/blog/diy/pace-instant-setback-cubby-simple-led-light-sensor-switch-circuit/ (https://getgui.com/blog/diy/pace-instant-setback-cubby-simple-led-light-sensor-switch-circuit/) , but with the right plug and with this type of sensor https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002248606414.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.eb4a4c4dBJzTHZ (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002248606414.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.eb4a4c4dBJzTHZ)

Is the 5 oC temperature intervals as Dave talked about been fixet with a firmware upgrade?
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: DavidAlfa on March 21, 2021, 01:14:39 am
Who calls "issue" having 5ºC steps? Why?
360ºC / 365ºC: No! I need 363ºC!!
Rather than that, going from 360 to 400 in 1ºC steps is a pain in the ass... it takes forever!
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Psi on March 21, 2021, 08:07:49 am
Yeah, 320C, 350C, 380C, and maybe 420C if you're doing something stupidly large
Back when my main iron had temp adj that's all I ever used.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on March 21, 2021, 08:10:38 am
It sounds annoying to be forced to press a button or cool down the tip, to get out of Hibernation mode. With my old Quick I'm used to be able to be ready 2 sec after I lift the handpiece

As I mentioned this is standard setback (if you choose to use it). You need to clean the tip (ie give the station some indication you are using it) OR press a button to resume, it's likely this way on purpose.

The instant setback stand if connected overrides this, as the handpiece in or out of the stand dictates operation. Remove the handpiece and it auto resumes the set temp. If it's gone into Auto Off it needs a button press, again likely this way on purpose.

Daves review is quite outdated, 1-4 fixed all that to single digit resolution and control, smooths out the bouncing. The marginal temp test discussed at the end of the video also reflected poorly on the Pace. It was likely that the JBC was overshooting during recovery, if you observe closely you can just catch the JBC overshooting on the tip thermometer.

As the Pace wasn't cycling heating pulses heavily, it backs this up. It was just sitting at the cusp of liquidus temp and thermal loss in the board until the temp was turned up to a more appropriate window. A proper thermal bridge could then be established. The JBC was probably running 20-30 degrees past set temp during recovery which was sort of proven during that test and even JBCs performance charts show this "running hot" behavior. The IPC standards have been moving in the direction of regulation accuracy rather than the antiquated idle temp measurement (which only matters during idle temp calibration), it addresses this exact phenomena.

I was going to mention this to you, if you do decide to buy into JBC rather than heavily invest in their eco system (which requires a new station for each set of tools) the Unisolder runs all the handpieces (including Paces TD200 shown in this video). I'd still buy the Pace anyway as I really like their handpiece and their case can be easily modded (the transformer is even on a rail mount system) but just to let you know there are options in the future that are a bit expensive for you at the moment, should you want to take up the hobby of expensive cartridge tip and handpiece collecting that is.

If you notice the display of the Unisolder is way easier to read than the JBC in Daves videos, that is because top mounting LCD displays is the dumbest idea ever. That and attaching the stand to the station drives me nuts. The Pace way there are actually bolts on the side of the stand which can be moved anywhere. So you can attach a little container for your flux and solder paste etc and stow tips on the back of the stand. The station itself can be bracket or shelf mounted, way more flexible in my opinion than JBCs compact stations. You will notice JBC reserves that for their highend stations which are over complicated and begging to leave you with an empty heart when the LCD fails or it bricks.

Did I mention I'm biased towards Pace? Of course I am, as Dave mentioned it's the vibe. It's not just one thing it's a combination of liking them more than the things I dislike in other stations. Pace use generic parts and everything is easily serviceable. A user here on the forum brought an old Pace multichannel station from ebay a while back with a display backlight issue. Pace gave him the exact part and their supplier to assist with his repair. $1000 station (has built in vacuum) repaired for under $10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqvJTetbqA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqvJTetbqA)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on March 21, 2021, 07:35:56 pm
You convinced me with the argument, that PACE uses generic spare parts parts  :-+ so it is easy to service if something happens. So I'll wait until the ISB version is back in stock in 6 weeks, to get the right solution first time.

Dos anyone have any suggestions on tips, I think of: a narrow and a medium wide and a bent chisel, as a start and maybe a Blade Tip.

Can anyone explain MicroWave and MiniWave tips. I'm not familiar with them, and someone mentioned them somewhere in the thread.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on March 21, 2021, 09:19:18 pm
Various chisels, bent, knife, big one for smd heatsinks, wave tip for practicing drag soldering. Most people go for the ultra series 1131 carts where possible. It's a trade off in performance/access/heating time at turn on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtzpGrgcnXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtzpGrgcnXA)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on March 22, 2021, 10:14:53 am
The TD200 handpiece cable can be easily dismantled as well, it takes a blistering 5 seconds to swap the whole cable assembly over. It's been previously sold as a spare part but super easy to work on if ever. All their handpieces can be dismantled, they sell service kits to maintain vacuum pumps in their desoldering models as well, it's sort of a Pace thing.

Pace said the cable hasn't been a failure point in the past, but heavy users were wearing out the plastic handle, it's part of the reason they went to something more durable. Most of the handpiece design has been around a couple of decades in the field anyway.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/?action=dlattach;attach=979794;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/new-pace-ads200-production-soldering-station/?action=dlattach;attach=507962;image)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Hohn on March 31, 2021, 05:23:45 pm
I know it will be sacrilege to some, but I don't think that thermal performance is a meaningful discriminator between most of the pro-user grade stations. Any of them will have sufficient power for superb performance with good technique. I assert that there's essentially zero real world performance between an 80w cartridge station and a 130w cartridge station. Unless those stations offer truly MASSIVE tips that can pull heat, the performance will be all but indistinguishable.

Which means tiebreakers go to things like tip selection and cost where you live, ergonomics, and intangible user experience.

Pace is one of the most established professional brands in soldering. It seems like it would be a very safe choice. JBC seems to me a bit like an exotic Italian sports car used mostly to drive to market. It costs a lot more, has some really cool features and talking stuff, but ultimately just gets you to the market like a cheap car would. For the rare user who gets to take that car to the track, it's got some really neat performance. But for most people it wouldn't really deliver much in terms of real additional performance.

I went with Hakko 951 mostly because it's such a great bargain in the US. $250 USD and tips are $10. Comparable units from JBC or Metcal or such are $400 or more. Pace ADS200 is $360 or more.

It really comes down to what's most important to you in your unique situation and budget. Any choice will serve you well.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on April 08, 2021, 03:36:13 pm
I ended up ordering the Pace ADS200 and a good handful of tips, now i just have to wait until it is in stock again in the end of the month. I could not bring myself to look at Hakko's color theme on my bench, and someone needs to help them designing a user-friendly gui.

I noticed that the Spanish 8) JBC "only" delivered around 70W, but 120W as a peak wattage. That is impotent to me, seance as i stated in the first post, that i have had issues with larger ground planes with my 90W Quick 303B, i might even get it up and run again but my TS100 can not handle the ground planes, and the delivery of parts take some time seance i only found the voltage regulator in China, i had no luck with Mouser, DigiKey, RS or Farnell. I have changed the electrolytic capacitors, i found them to be undersized, they had for example used 200V electrolytes for a 230V supply. Still, they manage 15 years.

It was PACE's use of generic parts that made the choice easy, even though they in the moment have issues with delivering in EU.

Thanks, for changing my mind... i hope
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Hohn on April 08, 2021, 05:57:41 pm
I ended up ordering the Pace ADS200 and a good handful of tips, now i just have to wait until it is in stock again in the end of the month. I could not bring myself to look at Hakko's color theme on my bench, and someone needs to help them designing a user-friendly gui.

I noticed that the Spanish 8) JBC "only" delivered around 70W, but 120W as a peak wattage. That is impotent to me, seance as i stated in the first post, that i have had issues with larger ground planes with my 90W Quick 303B, i might even get it up and run again but my TS100 can not handle the ground planes, and the delivery of parts take some time seance i only found the voltage regulator in China, i had no luck with Mouser, DigiKey, RS or Farnell. I have changed the electrolytic capacitors, i found them to be undersized, they had for example used 200V electrolytes for a 230V supply. Still, they manage 15 years.

It was PACE's use of generic parts that made the choice easy, even though they in the moment have issues with delivering in EU.

Thanks, for changing my mind... i hope

I think you made a wise choice. The present delivery issues are temporary. But the use of generic parts will be a permanent benefit and allow for a nearly infinite life if you can just replace defective components. I expect you'll get decades from the station.

I don't think you'll have any kind of power shortages with the Pace. It's capability will likely only be limited by the size of the tips can you get, and they have some generously massive tips available. That means substantial capability IMO.

I agree the Hakko is ugly and the UI is fiddly. But in regular use, it just basically disappears. I rarely need to adjust it or look at it (thankfully).
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: wizard69 on April 09, 2021, 03:38:09 am
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).
If it looks desirable to you go for it.   Like a woman looks can be deceiving, you won't know if you have a jewel until you use it for a bit.

For me it is the personal aspect that makes suggesting a soldering station to somebody problematic.  For example I prefer irons that are larger in diameter for large and aging hands. 
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I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.
I wouldn't consider any of those as show stoppers.   For example I've never had all the irons/tips/elements for any station I've owned.   If you end up with more than 4 and use them, i'd be surprised in a hobby situation.
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If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.
I've always like Weller's lower end stations.   Can't say that I've used a modern one or a higher end one.
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I have an TS100 as additional soldering iron. I have discovered the TS100 with it's 65 Watt have some issues with larger ground-planes and i have had some similar issues with my old 90Watt station. 
Here in lies the problem, I don't see any reasonably priced station solving all of somebodies soldering needs.   They are not truly portable for one.   Second an iron suitable for high power output will not be the same iron you will be using for micro electronics.   In the end soldering equipment is like DMM in the end you will need more than one soldering solution or accessory.
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Therefor I ask for other suggestions? I did look at QUICK 1200A but after searching this forum, i continued my search. And to make it more difficult I live en Europe so Pace in not an option, and i don't like the Hakko GUI.

GUI's for me are extremely important on a soldering station, we have a MetCal at work that is just terrible.   I highly prefer a simple rotary knob, be it an encoder or an analog control, for temperature setting.   If i'm trying to solder a heavy connector I like the ability to bump up the operating temperature in the hopes I don't have to break out the big Weller heat gun.   Sometimes bumping up the temperature can make a big difference with solder wick too.   Fiddly controls just suck.   Ideally the iron station would handle temperature control just like a process controller which displays a SV (Set  Value) and a PV (Process Value) continuously so you always know where you stand.   Stay away from stations that are designed to be locked down with no user accessible temperature adjustments (great for manufacturing, no so good for the hobby or repair bench).

In the nut shell go with what feels right to you!!!!    All of these stations are designed to do one thing, melt solder and frankly anything beyond the ability to do that is personal preference.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: blacksheeplogic on April 09, 2021, 07:35:54 am
I've though about the Pace ADS200 but the lack of a 2-channel variant is an issue for me.

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If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.
I've always like Weller's lower end stations.   Can't say that I've used a modern one or a higher end one.

I have a significant investment in Weller gear including the WX, I don't like the UI on the WX compared to the WR but with the WX presets are by hand-piece rather than by station which makes up for the UI deficiencies. The biggest issue with the WX for the general hobbies is the cost, the WXP-80 hand-piece I just purchased without stand cost almost as much as the ADS200.

Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on April 10, 2021, 01:14:08 am
Yep Weller is well expensive especially on both sides of the Tasman, I have a couple of Wellers but older models. In my opinion the black faced models are the best looking and have good UI. They should have used black matrix displays with orange backlighting and just stuck with that design.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: oz1sqt on April 24, 2021, 11:56:10 pm
Are there any updates on the availability in Europe? Farnell just added 6 weeks to the there delivery time, except from 3 tips, they have send out |O
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Teti on May 15, 2021, 08:49:35 pm
I have the Pace ADS200 and the JBC2B stations. I use the Pace as my primary iron these days, it's just "the vibe". They are both great though.
And cos your vibe I've bought Pace as well. I've seen video of Sagan soldering with it and thought what's good for Sagan is good enough for me :)
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: bson on May 23, 2021, 07:08:20 am
Yeah, I did wonder about not having a temp adj knob when I got it, however someone told me that, with a really good quality iron this isn't an issue, and they were right!
I like to set the actual soldering temperature and for the station to have enough power to maintain that.  I don't always want 310˚C+ as if I worked with leadless solder when 270˚C is enough for for leaded.  The leadless temps can do a number on many plastic connector housings and melts insulation to the wazoo when you solder a cable leads to a board or connector.  But, I still want to be able to turn up the temperature for leadless when called for.  So, yes, temperature adjustment is a must-have IMO to match the solder used.  This is completely different from the ability of the station to maintain it.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Ground_Loop on June 12, 2021, 02:46:32 pm
Various chisels, bent, knife, big one for smd heatsinks, wave tip for practicing drag soldering. Most people go for the ultra series 1131 carts where possible. It's a trade off in performance/access/heating time at turn on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtzpGrgcnXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtzpGrgcnXA)
Do you have a pin out for the Pace TD-200 handpiece?  And possibly a part number for the socket. I'm trying to connect one up to a Unisolder. 
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: Shock on June 12, 2021, 04:02:27 pm
Mbless reversed the Pace ADS200 to schematic in which I think the below is the latest. Has the TD200 handpiece wiring to ADS 200 pcb documented. The new Pace tips are k type thermocouples so finding the heater and sensor is trivial with ohms and mV or temp on a multimeter.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg1742054/#msg1742054 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg1742054/#msg1742054)

Sparkybg is obviously the go to guy if you really get stuck as he is the Unisolder creator and has implemented his own TD200, so I would be surprised if it's not mentioned somewhere in his dangerous prototypes Unisolder thread or documentation. Maybe even commented in code (dev place of hiding useful info).

http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7218.0 (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7218.0)

Myself I've only just taken off the TD200 plug casing off to probe the handpiece with my scope while it was running. I did trace out the wiring at some stage didn't need to document it. I have no idea about the socket but Mbless and Sparkybg might know. Mbless made his own custom ADS200 controller but not sure if he borrowed the socket from the original station.
Title: Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
Post by: thm_w on June 14, 2021, 09:28:43 pm
Its documented in the big ADS200 thread.

PN: T 3327 000 (plastic)
Possible alternates: T3327018 gold pins, T3327100 metal reverse mount
10A, bayonet locking, C091B series