Author Topic: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?  (Read 3599 times)

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Offline oz1sqt

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Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« on: March 18, 2021, 09:33:48 am »
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.

If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.

I have an TS100 as additional soldering iron. I have discovered the TS100 with it's 65 Watt have some issues with larger ground-planes and i have had some similar issues with my old 90Watt station. 

Therefor I ask for other suggestions? I did look at QUICK 1200A but after searching this forum, i continued my search. And to make it more difficult I live en Europe so Pace in not an option, and i don't like the Hakko GUI.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2021, 10:25:31 am »
I like my TMT-9000, and it's in your price range by the look of it.

(Just FYI, you cant use both the outputs at the same time sadly, but it does heat up super fast, I timed it at 6 seconds until solder melts.)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 10:32:13 am by Psi »
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2021, 10:35:35 am »
Am i right, it has fixed temperature, is that desired? and has only 40 watts?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2021, 04:12:28 pm »
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.

If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.

I have an TS100 as additional soldering iron. I have discovered the TS100 with it's 65 Watt have some issues with larger ground-planes and i have had some similar issues with my old 90Watt station. 

Therefor I ask for other suggestions? I did look at QUICK 1200A but after searching this forum, i continued my search. And to make it more difficult I live en Europe so Pace in not an option, and i don't like the Hakko GUI.
Yes, JBC tips are readily available, and their selection is second to none, but the prices mean you likely won’t take advantage of that and will end up with just a few tips.

Pace is readily available in Europe. Farnell (dk.farnell.com for you) carries pretty much the entire Pace range in all of Europe. So I’d recommend the ADS200.
 

Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2021, 08:24:41 pm »
The PACE ADS-200 with the IBS stand looks interesting, but the range of tips is somewhat more limited and mostly conical. It is currently in backorder, is it a new product at Farnell?
But when I calculate VAT on the PACE ADS-200, it will end up a bit more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF when i include 4 corresponding tips.

I have also looked at other pages in EU with similar limited and mostly conical selection. I found the tip price for "normal"-tips is quite similar between JBC and PACE when i calculate VAT from pages in EU
 

Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2021, 10:12:46 pm »
I have looked at it, it happened to be in the web shop I found an OK price on the https://eleshop.eu/jbc-cd-2bqf-soldeerstation-140watt.html As alternative to the BT-2BWA or CD-2BQF the English version of the JBC clone BST-933B https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20210318140238&SearchText=bst+933b could also be an alternative, i have seen some positive reviews of it, and i can even use it with genuine  tips.

Thanks for the good tip with the E-bay seller JBC20-30. I had also considered fake/clone-tips, in some of the variants that are not used that often.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2021, 08:54:24 am »
The tip list for the Pace TD200 handpiece, makes it easier to search by part number.
https://paceworldwide.com/news/new-printable-td-200-blue-series-tip-chart

I would be hesitant going down the clone path especially if you have the money or can save a little more to get what you want. It would be great if you were getting more for less money but less for less (whether it be materials, quality, warranty, performance, reliability) doesn't sound like a winning proposition to me.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2021, 09:52:27 am »
Funny enough, i asked my wife and she came up with a similar answer.
And a good argument with the T210 handle

My dilemma when I saw it I had a very hard time with the more expensive JBS but I would be most happy with the good price of the clone or the security with the original and like you she knocked me in the head and said, with the minimal price difference and risk on the clone, while the original will probably last the rest of my life ... although that would be an argument for upgrading ;-)

 

Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2021, 10:08:52 am »
I have seen that, and know that PACE has a large number of tips, but the sellers in EU I have found, only sells 10-15 different types and 60% of those options are conical.

If I buy outside EU, I have to add the minimum of $25 US as import fee to the order and then add 25% in VAT. If the amount also exceeds $148 US I must also add tax to the cost. It minimizes the benefits of the cheaper soldering tips.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2021, 10:43:33 am »
I have the Pace ADS200 and the JBC2B stations. I use the Pace as my primary iron these days, it's just "the vibe". They are both great though.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2021, 10:46:05 am »
If you want an alternative to the fixed temp Metcal's Chris Gammell has been talking up the Thermaltronics
http://www.thermaltronics.com/
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2021, 11:27:08 am »
Am i right, it has fixed temperature, is that desired? and has only 40 watts?

Yes to both, but the thermaltronics TMT-9000S is by far the best iron i've used.
You can change the temp, but need to change the tip to a higher temp one to do it. I use the yellow tips 99% of the time. They're around 370C but I have some lower temp ones too.

Yeah, I did wonder about not having a temp adj knob when I got it, however someone told me that, with a really good quality iron this isn't an issue, and they were right!
When the iron is able to dump that 40W directly into the tip in an instant and keep regulating the tip to that temp you no longer need to crank up the temp to compensate for poor/slow heater-to-tip coupling.

That being said, I have maybe 2 times in 6 years gone back to my hakko 888 and set it to 450C just to solder some stupidly large stuff. I guess the 40W has its limits, but its super rare and if i wanted to i could buy a red tip that would do up to 475C on the TMT-9000S
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 11:39:21 am by Psi »
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2021, 11:44:09 am »
My question about the 40W is more, that i have discovered issues with an 65W iron also with the heater in the tip, (with an 90W PSU)
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2021, 01:54:04 pm »
On Farnell UK searching for Pace 1130 I got 56 results (some of those tweezer tips) and Pace 1131 showed 17 results, so that sounds close to the entire tip series. If certain tips are not in your distributors system you can always request they be added.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2021, 01:59:00 pm »
The PACE ADS-200 with the IBS stand looks interesting, but the range of tips is somewhat more limited and mostly conical. It is currently in backorder, is it a new product at Farnell?
Nope. Pace is just suffering from big backorder issues in Europe right now, because their (soon to be former) Euro headquarters is in England and shipments have been mired in brexit problems. (The pace desoldering station we ordered just before Christmas, with delivery due mid January, didn’t arrive till early March.)
I have also looked at other pages in EU with similar limited and mostly conical selection. I found the tip price for "normal"-tips is quite similar between JBC and PACE when i calculate VAT from pages in EU
Farnell carries at least 37 tips for the ADS200*, of which only 9 are conical. I don’t know where you got the crazy idea that most of ADS200 tips are conical.

*as shown by the parametric search, which almost certainly is not catching all of them.

Also, don’t ignore the local distributors: we ordered our desoldering station from the local distributor, because it was cheaper than Farnell, not to mention supporting local businesses. It may be the same in Denmark.
 
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2021, 05:43:59 pm »
OK it seems to be a Backorder issue, that explains the long expected delivery time. I'm not familiar with PACE and have in the past seen it as a US phenomena, it did not appear the times I have previously searched for soldering stations, the same with Hakko, although they seem to be popular.

btw i got 40 hits on Farnell searching for ads200, 37 tips, but only 5 types of tips in stock. This is not positive in my eyes, and reduce my trust in the brand... Brexit was not a surprise. The numbers came from other sites from, Estonia, Poland, Nederland, Bulgaria and Greece.

I have also looked at local distributors but they either have low end off brand stations, or more high end stations way out of my budget, and stations with direct heat tips are quit difficult to find in their product range.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2021, 09:00:01 pm »
OK it seems to be a Backorder issue, that explains the long expected delivery time. I'm not familiar with PACE and have in the past seen it as a US phenomena, it did not appear the times I have previously searched for soldering stations, the same with Hakko, although they seem to be popular.

btw i got 40 hits on Farnell searching for ads200, 37 tips, but only 5 types of tips in stock. This is not positive in my eyes, and reduce my trust in the brand... Brexit was not a surprise. The numbers came from other sites from, Estonia, Poland, Nederland, Bulgaria and Greece.

I have also looked at local distributors but they either have low end off brand stations, or more high end stations way out of my budget, and stations with direct heat tips are quit difficult to find in their product range.
Brexit has affected tons of companies: stuff is stuck in customs as the customs officials figure things out. It has nothing to do with the company itself, nor preparedness. A friend of mine owns a British cheese shop, and thanks to the double whammy of brexit and COVID, he hasn’t been able to receive stock for many weeks. (And yes, this has meant huge losses for cheese makers, since their soft cheeses literally go bad waiting...)

I meant to check your local Pace distributor.

Pace doesn’t have the retail visibility of, say, Weller or Ersa (which might also be a brand worth looking at), but it’s everywhere in aerospace and defense. It’s extremely well made, not flashy, but reliable and high performing.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 09:02:40 pm by tooki »
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2021, 11:37:36 pm »
Welectron has many tips on stock.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2021, 01:02:36 am »
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.
You are forgetting one criterium: long lasting tips. According to my experience Weller and JBC suck at that. Heating in the tip is great but if that tip doesn't take on solder it is way worse compared to an iron from Ersa.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2021, 08:38:55 am »
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).

I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.
You are forgetting one criterium: long lasting tips. According to my experience Weller and JBC suck at that. Heating in the tip is great but if that tip doesn't take on solder it is way worse compared to an iron from Ersa.

I agree. I tried JBC and didn't like it. Tip might heat fast and strong, but with few tips I tried they had a bad wetting, and would oxidize too fast. I also had Weller WD1. Original tips that came with it were wetting much better, and in years, only by using sponge newer had problems with wetting. Newer tips are much worse and about the same as JBC. I believe it is the coating that changed, the newer coatings are different formulation for use with higher temp and lead free solders. They might have some chrome in it or something that makes them corrode less and be less absorbed by different formulation of lead free solder, but they also wet much worse. Pace tips are also a bit like that but much better then JBC.

One more thing. I'm known to take very good care of my equipment and never use force and use it very gently. But JBC looks and feels like a plastic toy. While PACE is built like a tank. PACE handle is tiny, but doesn't look or feel cheap or like it is going to break any moment now like JBC.  Yes, I know they don't really break like that, but it feels like that.
And aluminum handle is awesome!! After decades of soldering, having a soldering iron that after 8 hours of being used is still cold to the touch is just amazing.

If I didn't buy PACE to replace my Weller, I would have bought Ersa I-Con station. Don't buy the sales pitch, even if it isn't integrated heater in tips, heater is still mounted deep in tip and has good heat transfer. And 120W is enough to cope with tip thermal inertia. Which is also two sided coin:  JBC has so low tip mass, that when you even touch something tiny it looses temperature immediately.  It makes up for that with fast regulation.  Larger mass tips have more inertia, but also have more stored heat: on same solder joint they will loose less °C when you touch it. So les droop and less °C to correct.
In fact ERSA is so fast, that you have an option in a menu to enable slower regulation, so component heating is not so abrupt to decrease thermal shock.
There is same option of temperature profiling on more expensive pro grade JBC stations. When used with those stations and less aggressive heating profiles, JBC tips last longer...

PACE on the other hand seems to have been dialed in just right from the get go. And I also have few hi-capacity tips (larger thermal mass) so you can choose. I actually prefer those for general work, where space is not a problem. 

 
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2021, 12:32:06 pm »
Has most manufacturers' alloys not been upgraded to lead-free tin? I am aware that the thermal mass of the tip has a very large impact on where, we can call it the tips' usability.

I also like the PACE's seems to be quite solid, and i know i have to be aware of the sales pitch's. In most forums i have come across the choice of tool is almost religious, where one can "only" use model super delux with gold platinum ... even though the tool is in the drawer 99% of the time. That often makes it quite hard to make a selection based on the suggestions.

Another challenge is that I have a bit of a hard time doing without a soldering station for another 6 weeks or more before they come back in stock due to the backorder Pace are in.

I have also spread my hunt for the ADS200 (ISP), also Welectron which I did not know, but it seems to be the variant that is most difficult to obtain ... alternatively, since the difference is a mechanical micro switch in the holder, it is not relatively easy to add the switch for to get the ISP feature. It must be a simple end or break function am i right? If possible, I think it will be the Pace.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 04:22:14 pm by oz1sqt »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2021, 10:11:38 pm »
The Pace ADS200 with ISB comes with the "instant setback" version of the stand. It's more than just a switch added, there's a cable, plug, switch, bracket and arm. The parts can be handcrafted diy if you are up for it, but I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.

The setback temp is configurable, then you have "instant setback" (stand detection) or "standard setback" (idle detection). To resume out of instant setback you need the ISB stand and it plugged in. To resume out of "standard setback" you have to wet the tip on the sponge or press a button.

Since the tip is already roughly half heated in setback the ISB stand is the most convenient way to go. It's all configurable though and you can optionally even disconnect the ISB cable or use it later. There is an additional "auto off" setting which will turn off all heating and require a button to resume, so even if the cat comes in later and drags the soldering handpiece out of the ISB stand it won't start back up.

The Pace station doesn't look high tech but has a modern quick heating circuit, accurate so no calibration required and the handpiece is  comfy with a short working distance. The configuration is hidden away in a boot menu to avoid people messing with your settings. Anyway, buy what makes you happy is the best way to go.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2021, 12:17:56 am »
It sounds annoying to be forced to press a button or cool down the tip, to get out of Hibernation mode. With my old Quick I'm used to be able to be ready 2 sec after I lift the handpiece

I'm not afraid of a diy solution on to make the ISB option, a mini DIN3 plug, and a sensor, here i think of a photosensor, seance a touch sensor could have an issue with the heat. similar to this solution https://getgui.com/blog/diy/pace-instant-setback-cubby-simple-led-light-sensor-switch-circuit/ , but with the right plug and with this type of sensor https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002248606414.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.eb4a4c4dBJzTHZ

Is the 5 oC temperature intervals as Dave talked about been fixet with a firmware upgrade?
 

Online DavidAlfa

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2021, 01:14:39 am »
Who calls "issue" having 5ºC steps? Why?
360ºC / 365ºC: No! I need 363ºC!!
Rather than that, going from 360 to 400 in 1ºC steps is a pain in the ass... it takes forever!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 01:20:27 am by DavidAlfa »
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Offline Psi

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2021, 08:07:49 am »
Yeah, 320C, 350C, 380C, and maybe 420C if you're doing something stupidly large
Back when my main iron had temp adj that's all I ever used.
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