Author Topic: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?  (Read 2983 times)

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Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2021, 08:10:38 am »
It sounds annoying to be forced to press a button or cool down the tip, to get out of Hibernation mode. With my old Quick I'm used to be able to be ready 2 sec after I lift the handpiece

As I mentioned this is standard setback (if you choose to use it). You need to clean the tip (ie give the station some indication you are using it) OR press a button to resume, it's likely this way on purpose.

The instant setback stand if connected overrides this, as the handpiece in or out of the stand dictates operation. Remove the handpiece and it auto resumes the set temp. If it's gone into Auto Off it needs a button press, again likely this way on purpose.

Daves review is quite outdated, 1-4 fixed all that to single digit resolution and control, smooths out the bouncing. The marginal temp test discussed at the end of the video also reflected poorly on the Pace. It was likely that the JBC was overshooting during recovery, if you observe closely you can just catch the JBC overshooting on the tip thermometer.

As the Pace wasn't cycling heating pulses heavily, it backs this up. It was just sitting at the cusp of liquidus temp and thermal loss in the board until the temp was turned up to a more appropriate window. A proper thermal bridge could then be established. The JBC was probably running 20-30 degrees past set temp during recovery which was sort of proven during that test and even JBCs performance charts show this "running hot" behavior. The IPC standards have been moving in the direction of regulation accuracy rather than the antiquated idle temp measurement (which only matters during idle temp calibration), it addresses this exact phenomena.

I was going to mention this to you, if you do decide to buy into JBC rather than heavily invest in their eco system (which requires a new station for each set of tools) the Unisolder runs all the handpieces (including Paces TD200 shown in this video). I'd still buy the Pace anyway as I really like their handpiece and their case can be easily modded (the transformer is even on a rail mount system) but just to let you know there are options in the future that are a bit expensive for you at the moment, should you want to take up the hobby of expensive cartridge tip and handpiece collecting that is.

If you notice the display of the Unisolder is way easier to read than the JBC in Daves videos, that is because top mounting LCD displays is the dumbest idea ever. That and attaching the stand to the station drives me nuts. The Pace way there are actually bolts on the side of the stand which can be moved anywhere. So you can attach a little container for your flux and solder paste etc and stow tips on the back of the stand. The station itself can be bracket or shelf mounted, way more flexible in my opinion than JBCs compact stations. You will notice JBC reserves that for their highend stations which are over complicated and begging to leave you with an empty heart when the LCD fails or it bricks.

Did I mention I'm biased towards Pace? Of course I am, as Dave mentioned it's the vibe. It's not just one thing it's a combination of liking them more than the things I dislike in other stations. Pace use generic parts and everything is easily serviceable. A user here on the forum brought an old Pace multichannel station from ebay a while back with a display backlight issue. Pace gave him the exact part and their supplier to assist with his repair. $1000 station (has built in vacuum) repaired for under $10.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 08:12:43 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2021, 07:35:56 pm »
You convinced me with the argument, that PACE uses generic spare parts parts  :-+ so it is easy to service if something happens. So I'll wait until the ISB version is back in stock in 6 weeks, to get the right solution first time.

Dos anyone have any suggestions on tips, I think of: a narrow and a medium wide and a bent chisel, as a start and maybe a Blade Tip.

Can anyone explain MicroWave and MiniWave tips. I'm not familiar with them, and someone mentioned them somewhere in the thread.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2021, 09:19:18 pm »
Various chisels, bent, knife, big one for smd heatsinks, wave tip for practicing drag soldering. Most people go for the ultra series 1131 carts where possible. It's a trade off in performance/access/heating time at turn on.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 09:45:53 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2021, 10:14:53 am »
The TD200 handpiece cable can be easily dismantled as well, it takes a blistering 5 seconds to swap the whole cable assembly over. It's been previously sold as a spare part but super easy to work on if ever. All their handpieces can be dismantled, they sell service kits to maintain vacuum pumps in their desoldering models as well, it's sort of a Pace thing.

Pace said the cable hasn't been a failure point in the past, but heavy users were wearing out the plastic handle, it's part of the reason they went to something more durable. Most of the handpiece design has been around a couple of decades in the field anyway.



Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline Hohn

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2021, 05:23:45 pm »
I know it will be sacrilege to some, but I don't think that thermal performance is a meaningful discriminator between most of the pro-user grade stations. Any of them will have sufficient power for superb performance with good technique. I assert that there's essentially zero real world performance between an 80w cartridge station and a 130w cartridge station. Unless those stations offer truly MASSIVE tips that can pull heat, the performance will be all but indistinguishable.

Which means tiebreakers go to things like tip selection and cost where you live, ergonomics, and intangible user experience.

Pace is one of the most established professional brands in soldering. It seems like it would be a very safe choice. JBC seems to me a bit like an exotic Italian sports car used mostly to drive to market. It costs a lot more, has some really cool features and talking stuff, but ultimately just gets you to the market like a cheap car would. For the rare user who gets to take that car to the track, it's got some really neat performance. But for most people it wouldn't really deliver much in terms of real additional performance.

I went with Hakko 951 mostly because it's such a great bargain in the US. $250 USD and tips are $10. Comparable units from JBC or Metcal or such are $400 or more. Pace ADS200 is $360 or more.

It really comes down to what's most important to you in your unique situation and budget. Any choice will serve you well.
 
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Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2021, 03:36:13 pm »
I ended up ordering the Pace ADS200 and a good handful of tips, now i just have to wait until it is in stock again in the end of the month. I could not bring myself to look at Hakko's color theme on my bench, and someone needs to help them designing a user-friendly gui.

I noticed that the Spanish 8) JBC "only" delivered around 70W, but 120W as a peak wattage. That is impotent to me, seance as i stated in the first post, that i have had issues with larger ground planes with my 90W Quick 303B, i might even get it up and run again but my TS100 can not handle the ground planes, and the delivery of parts take some time seance i only found the voltage regulator in China, i had no luck with Mouser, DigiKey, RS or Farnell. I have changed the electrolytic capacitors, i found them to be undersized, they had for example used 200V electrolytes for a 230V supply. Still, they manage 15 years.

It was PACE's use of generic parts that made the choice easy, even though they in the moment have issues with delivering in EU.

Thanks, for changing my mind... i hope
 

Offline Hohn

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2021, 05:57:41 pm »
I ended up ordering the Pace ADS200 and a good handful of tips, now i just have to wait until it is in stock again in the end of the month. I could not bring myself to look at Hakko's color theme on my bench, and someone needs to help them designing a user-friendly gui.

I noticed that the Spanish 8) JBC "only" delivered around 70W, but 120W as a peak wattage. That is impotent to me, seance as i stated in the first post, that i have had issues with larger ground planes with my 90W Quick 303B, i might even get it up and run again but my TS100 can not handle the ground planes, and the delivery of parts take some time seance i only found the voltage regulator in China, i had no luck with Mouser, DigiKey, RS or Farnell. I have changed the electrolytic capacitors, i found them to be undersized, they had for example used 200V electrolytes for a 230V supply. Still, they manage 15 years.

It was PACE's use of generic parts that made the choice easy, even though they in the moment have issues with delivering in EU.

Thanks, for changing my mind... i hope

I think you made a wise choice. The present delivery issues are temporary. But the use of generic parts will be a permanent benefit and allow for a nearly infinite life if you can just replace defective components. I expect you'll get decades from the station.

I don't think you'll have any kind of power shortages with the Pace. It's capability will likely only be limited by the size of the tips can you get, and they have some generously massive tips available. That means substantial capability IMO.

I agree the Hakko is ugly and the UI is fiddly. But in regular use, it just basically disappears. I rarely need to adjust it or look at it (thankfully).
 
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Offline wizard69

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2021, 03:38:09 am »
My 15 years old 90 Watt Quick303B has died, I was fund of it but it have made me a bit spoiled, therefor I'm looking fore its successor, for hobby use ...

I have set my eyes on the JBC CD-2BQF, definitely at the top of my budget with it's 360 Euro incl VAT ($428 US).
If it looks desirable to you go for it.   Like a woman looks can be deceiving, you won't know if you have a jewel until you use it for a bit.

For me it is the personal aspect that makes suggesting a soldering station to somebody problematic.  For example I prefer irons that are larger in diameter for large and aging hands. 
Quote
I have set some criteria for the new station:
  • Heating element in the tip
  • Easily accessible range of tips
  • Hibernation mode
  • Auto stand-by
The last to criteria was present in my old station.
I wouldn't consider any of those as show stoppers.   For example I've never had all the irons/tips/elements for any station I've owned.   If you end up with more than 4 and use them, i'd be surprised in a hobby situation.
Quote
If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.
I've always like Weller's lower end stations.   Can't say that I've used a modern one or a higher end one.
Quote
I have an TS100 as additional soldering iron. I have discovered the TS100 with it's 65 Watt have some issues with larger ground-planes and i have had some similar issues with my old 90Watt station. 
Here in lies the problem, I don't see any reasonably priced station solving all of somebodies soldering needs.   They are not truly portable for one.   Second an iron suitable for high power output will not be the same iron you will be using for micro electronics.   In the end soldering equipment is like DMM in the end you will need more than one soldering solution or accessory.
Quote
Therefor I ask for other suggestions? I did look at QUICK 1200A but after searching this forum, i continued my search. And to make it more difficult I live en Europe so Pace in not an option, and i don't like the Hakko GUI.

GUI's for me are extremely important on a soldering station, we have a MetCal at work that is just terrible.   I highly prefer a simple rotary knob, be it an encoder or an analog control, for temperature setting.   If i'm trying to solder a heavy connector I like the ability to bump up the operating temperature in the hopes I don't have to break out the big Weller heat gun.   Sometimes bumping up the temperature can make a big difference with solder wick too.   Fiddly controls just suck.   Ideally the iron station would handle temperature control just like a process controller which displays a SV (Set  Value) and a PV (Process Value) continuously so you always know where you stand.   Stay away from stations that are designed to be locked down with no user accessible temperature adjustments (great for manufacturing, no so good for the hobby or repair bench).

In the nut shell go with what feels right to you!!!!    All of these stations are designed to do one thing, melt solder and frankly anything beyond the ability to do that is personal preference.
 
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Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2021, 07:35:54 am »
I've though about the Pace ADS200 but the lack of a 2-channel variant is an issue for me.

Quote
If I look at Weller, I have to go to the WX series to meet my criteria, where the cheapest WX 1010 is 150 Euro more expensive than the JBC CD-2BQF.
I've always like Weller's lower end stations.   Can't say that I've used a modern one or a higher end one.

I have a significant investment in Weller gear including the WX, I don't like the UI on the WX compared to the WR but with the WX presets are by hand-piece rather than by station which makes up for the UI deficiencies. The biggest issue with the WX for the general hobbies is the cost, the WXP-80 hand-piece I just purchased without stand cost almost as much as the ADS200.

 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2021, 01:14:08 am »
Yep Weller is well expensive especially on both sides of the Tasman, I have a couple of Wellers but older models. In my opinion the black faced models are the best looking and have good UI. They should have used black matrix displays with orange backlighting and just stuck with that design.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 01:25:02 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline oz1sqt

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2021, 11:56:10 pm »
Are there any updates on the availability in Europe? Farnell just added 6 weeks to the there delivery time, except from 3 tips, they have send out |O
 

Offline Teti

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2021, 08:49:35 pm »
I have the Pace ADS200 and the JBC2B stations. I use the Pace as my primary iron these days, it's just "the vibe". They are both great though.
And cos your vibe I've bought Pace as well. I've seen video of Sagan soldering with it and thought what's good for Sagan is good enough for me :)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 08:54:02 pm by Teti »
 

Online bson

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2021, 07:08:20 am »
Yeah, I did wonder about not having a temp adj knob when I got it, however someone told me that, with a really good quality iron this isn't an issue, and they were right!
I like to set the actual soldering temperature and for the station to have enough power to maintain that.  I don't always want 310˚C+ as if I worked with leadless solder when 270˚C is enough for for leaded.  The leadless temps can do a number on many plastic connector housings and melts insulation to the wazoo when you solder a cable leads to a board or connector.  But, I still want to be able to turn up the temperature for leadless when called for.  So, yes, temperature adjustment is a must-have IMO to match the solder used.  This is completely different from the ability of the station to maintain it.
 

Offline Ground_Loop

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2021, 02:46:32 pm »
Various chisels, bent, knife, big one for smd heatsinks, wave tip for practicing drag soldering. Most people go for the ultra series 1131 carts where possible. It's a trade off in performance/access/heating time at turn on.


Do you have a pin out for the Pace TD-200 handpiece?  And possibly a part number for the socket. I'm trying to connect one up to a Unisolder. 
There's no point getting old if you don't have stories.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2021, 04:02:27 pm »
Mbless reversed the Pace ADS200 to schematic in which I think the below is the latest. Has the TD200 handpiece wiring to ADS 200 pcb documented. The new Pace tips are k type thermocouples so finding the heater and sensor is trivial with ohms and mV or temp on a multimeter.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg1742054/#msg1742054

Sparkybg is obviously the go to guy if you really get stuck as he is the Unisolder creator and has implemented his own TD200, so I would be surprised if it's not mentioned somewhere in his dangerous prototypes Unisolder thread or documentation. Maybe even commented in code (dev place of hiding useful info).

http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7218.0

Myself I've only just taken off the TD200 plug casing off to probe the handpiece with my scope while it was running. I did trace out the wiring at some stage didn't need to document it. I have no idea about the socket but Mbless and Sparkybg might know. Mbless made his own custom ADS200 controller but not sure if he borrowed the socket from the original station.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Successor for dead Solderingstation, JBC CD-2BQF?
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2021, 09:28:43 pm »
Its documented in the big ADS200 thread.

PN: T 3327 000 (plastic)
Possible alternates: T3327018 gold pins, T3327100 metal reverse mount
10A, bayonet locking, C091B series
 
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